NationStates Jolt Archive

This is a documentary I'm currently watching on Channel 4.

To be honest with you I don't like how the parents are forcing their beliefs on the kids. It's quite disturbing. It wouldn't bother me if the kids found these beliefs themselves.

Right now the father of one of the children is acting as her choreographer in how to preach to thousands.

So what is your feeling on these "Baby Bible Bashers"?

The documentary is mainly facing on a 7 year old boy who along with his father is on a crusade across the States to convert people to Christianity. It's quite disturbing ot see a 7 year old child shouting at strangers and condemning them to Hell.

What?

This is a documentary I'm currently watching on Channel 4.

To be honest with you I don't like how the parents are forcing their beliefs on the kids. It's quite disturbing. It wouldn't bother me if the kids found these beliefs themselves.

Right now the father of one of the children is acting as her choreographer in how to preach to thousands.

So what is your feeling on these "Baby Bible Bashers"?

These kids should go to Jesus Camp. Much better program, until it was shut down.

Kids should be soldiers for Christ. If you don't educate them young, they'll develop their own perspective through the free excercise of a healthy, thoughtful, indepedent mind.

Nobody wants that.

What?

The term "Bible basher" is the English language term for what some colonial dialects refer to as "Bible thumper".

Let them be that way, it's not like they're attacking people or denouncing the government. And the thought of a 7 year old condemning people to Hell is hilarious IMO.

It's quite disturbing ot see a 7 year old child shouting at strangers and condemning them to Hell.

Not as disturbing as the hate-song harmonizing twins that were famous awhile back... Okay, I'll stop being lazy and look it up.

Lamb and Lynx Gaede were their names. If my parents had named me either of those I'd probably be pretty rageful, too.

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=1231684&page=1

Not as disturbing as the hate-song harmonizing twins that were famous awhile back... Okay, I'll stop being lazy and look it up.

Lamb and Lynx Gaede were their names. If my parents had named me either of those I'd probably be pretty rageful, too.
Wow. That's disturbing.



And about the bible thumping children, I belive that children should be taught the truth, but left to make their own choice. Forcing your own belifs on children is not right. Give them time, and let them make a decision on their own. On religion at least.

i suppose these parents are the evangelical equivalent of stage parents. instead of forcing them to sing "tomorrow" over and over again they force them to preach.

not a great parenting style.

It's sad to see a child who hasn't had a chance to decide for himself and has instead been indoctrinated into belief.

Though 7 year olds who condem people to hell are funny.:p

This is a documentary I'm currently watching on Channel 4.

To be honest with you I don't like how the parents are forcing their beliefs on the kids. It's quite disturbing. It wouldn't bother me if the kids found these beliefs themselves.

Right now the father of one of the children is acting as her choreographer in how to preach to thousands.

So what is your feeling on these "Baby Bible Bashers"?

The documentary is mainly facing on a 7 year old boy who along with his father is on a crusade across the States to convert people to Christianity. It's quite disturbing ot see a 7 year old child shouting at strangers and condemning them to Hell.

I hate to say, but most parents want their kids to share their beliefs, and most end up succeeding (NSG being the exception;)). There's nothing disturbing about it. After all, you'd be a bit upset if your kid rejected your views on tolerance and became a racist, wouldn't you?

Click Stand;13451402']It's sad to see a child who hasn't had a chance to decide for himself and has instead been indoctrinated into belief.

Though 7 year olds who condem people to hell are funny.:p

Totally.

"You're a stupid head!"

"Oh yeah? You're going to suffer monstrous eternal torments of an unimaginable magnitude as the boiling feces of unbelieves is poured down your throat and the only thing on TV is new episodes of the Simpsons."

The documentary is mainly facing on a 7 year old boy who along with his father is on a crusade across the States to convert people to Christianity. It's quite disturbing ot see a 7 year old child shouting at strangers and condemning them to Hell.
Someone should hit the brat. Hard enough for it to seriously hurt, anyway. It sounds like he's just been living in his dad's shadow, and could do with experiencing a bit of pain for himself.

I thought this thread was going to be about babies bashing bibles, I was hoping it would have images. :(

These kids should go to Jesus Camp. Much better program, until it was shut down.

Kids should be soldiers for Christ. If you don't educate them young, they'll develop their own perspective through the free excercise of a healthy, thoughtful, indepedent mind.

Nobody wants that.

Mmmmm satire.

your actually bothering to watch another channel 4 "documentary"?

you could of just asked and I would of given you some fancy chocolates to keep you occupied ;)

It disturbs me when parents and teachers try to push political beliefs on children. And religious beliefs usually count as political beliefs.

Lying to children isn't right. I'm past sunday school age, but I looked at the posters they had at the sunday school recently. They had posters about different religions and why we should tolerate them. I think it's nice to spread messages of tolerance but almost all of these posters had lies on them. The one about muslims said things like "Muslims treat women as equals because they are all the same under the eyes of allah!" They're teaching kids about a fantasy world that never existed. When they figure out the things they where taught aren't true they might decide it's ok to hate muslims after all.

Click Stand;13451402']It's sad to see a child who hasn't had a chance to decide for himself and has instead been indoctrinated into belief.
To be honest, I doubt any child younger than ten really has different beliefs than their parents. I was actually just reading something which I believes has a relevant quote:
Feminists are often accused of imposing their "agenda" on children. Isn't that what all adults do, consciously or unconsciously? Kids aren't born religious, or polite, or kind, or able the remember where they put their sneakers. Inculcating these behaviors, and the values behind them, is a tremendous amount of work, involving many adults.
Now, replace "feminist" with "Christian," and you see my view on this story. Of course, eventually children do start to think for themselves, and then it is important to respect that. But the only kids who have not been indoctrinated by people are the ones that are raised by wolves. (Even they probably have wolf morals indoctrinated into them.)
Though 7 year olds who condem people to hell are funny.:p
Too true. It's always funny when kids say things you know they've practiced with their parents or teachers.

Also, I think the term the OP is thinking of is Bible thumping. To me, Bible bashing would be attacking the Bible.

they are the same brand who always wanted to play an instrument so they force their child to practice violin 5 hours a day from the age of 2.

yupyup

having a child prodigy makes the parent feel like they are doing a great job.

i suppose these parents are the evangelical equivalent of stage parents. instead of forcing them to sing "tomorrow" over and over again they force them to preach.

not a great parenting style.

they are the same brand who always wanted to play an instrument so they force their child to practice violin 5 hours a day from the age of 2.

The documentary is mainly facing on a 7 year old boy who along with his father is on a crusade across the States to convert people to Christianity. It's quite disturbing ot see a 7 year old child shouting at strangers and condemning them to Hell.

That's the sort of kid that would get dumped in a wheelie bin and shoved down a hill by a dozen others at my old school.

Otherwise, it was shocking. Loved the look on their faces when they went to NY though. Now that was hilarious.

New Limacon: I've always heard it as bible-bashing. Different parts of the UK, perhaps?

I only caught the last quarter, but the thing that got me the most was how scared they all were of hell and the devil, and most of what they said was about punishment. Regardless of any indoctrination issues etc, a 3 year old child should not live in fear of burning in hell.

Also, my mum watched all of it and said that 2 of the parents had admitted to hitting their children...

New Limacon: I've always heard it as bible-bashing. Different parts of the UK, perhaps?
Or different country completely. In the US, I've only heard it call Bible thumping, because the person is question is thumping the Bible against the podium. Now that I think about it, Bible bashing makes just as much sense, and even has an alliteration thing going on. Never mind, OP, my mistake.

This is a documentary I'm currently watching on Channel 4.

To be honest with you I don't like how the parents are forcing their beliefs on the kids. It's quite disturbing. It wouldn't bother me if the kids found these beliefs themselves.

Right now the father of one of the children is acting as her choreographer in how to preach to thousands.

So what is your feeling on these "Baby Bible Bashers"?

The documentary is mainly facing on a 7 year old boy who along with his father is on a crusade across the States to convert people to Christianity. It's quite disturbing ot see a 7 year old child shouting at strangers and condemning them to Hell.

Parents want to raise their kids to have the same beliefs & values as they have, it's only natural. I mean, I'll be raising any future kids I have to be passionate Collingwood supporters! Kids obviously don't understand everything about religion until they're quite a bit older, because it is a very complex subject. It is scary to see young kids so heavily indocrinated though.

Idiots. The kids will grow into teenagers and become hardcore satanists just to rebel against them.

Not as disturbing as the hate-song harmonizing twins that were famous awhile back... Okay, I'll stop being lazy and look it up.

Lamb and Lynx Gaede were their names. If my parents had named me either of those I'd probably be pretty rageful, too.

I saw a documentary on them that was excellent indeed. It showed that they didn't really have any belief in white supremacy, and were only sing to pleas thier psycho overbearing oppressive mother. If anything, they came across as being quite tragic, because they had no friends and were generally hated everywhere they went because of what their mother was making them do. So Sad.

Aww isn't it cute?! A mini Fred Phelps in the making. Now our children can grow up with the promise of asshattery.

I only caught the last quarter, but the thing that got me the most was how scared they all were of hell and the devil, and most of what they said was about punishment. Regardless of any indoctrination issues etc, a 3 year old child should not live in fear of burning in hell.

True. I've been a Christian all my life, and it wasn't until recently that I started thinking, "Wow, eternal damnation would really stink," and seen that as a real deterrent. Amazingly, my life up until that point was not filled with sin and inequity. I wonder what I was doing wrong.

your actually bothering to watch another channel 4 "documentary"?

you could of just asked and I would of given you some fancy chocolates to keep you occupied ;)

I'm sorry. I would've gone to the SU bar but the majority of my flat have gone home. Plus valentinse night at the bar equals loved up couples....

That's the sort of kid that would get dumped in a wheelie bin and shoved down a hill by a dozen others at my old school.

Otherwise, it was shocking. Loved the look on their faces when they went to NY though. Now that was hilarious.

New Limacon: I've always heard it as bible-bashing. Different parts of the UK, perhaps?

I felt a bit sorry for the kid when they were in NY. Poor kid started crying. Then the father says "There are two types of people in the world. Those who love Jesus and God and then those who hate Jesus and God. Those who hate Jesus are going to hell."

yupyup

having a child prodigy makes the parent feel like they are doing a great job.

if they don't have one they'll make one! I have to suffer the idiots in my local gifted kid's group.....which we quit because my kids were tired of the stupidity of the parents...


"I think Suzy is gifted because most babies watch baby Einstein at 6 months but she would watch it at 4 months, and you can really tell she knew so much about what they were talking about"
"really? that's interesting :rolleyes:"
"well! when did your kids start watching it?"
"they never have, we didn't do TV at all until after 3"
"you deprived them!"
"yeah, I guess so"


They actually shop around until they find a psychologist that will give their kid a good score.....:p

To be honest, I doubt any child younger than ten really has different beliefs than their parents. I was actually just reading something which I believes has a relevant quote:

Now, replace "feminist" with "Christian," and you see my view on this story. Of course, eventually children do start to think for themselves, and then it is important to respect that. But the only kids who have not been indoctrinated by people are the ones that are raised by wolves. (Even they probably have wolf morals indoctrinated into them.)Not every child has been indoctrinated. Some children are raised to think for themselves instead of blindly obeying authority. I think kids are born with a natural trust for authority, but that doesn't have to be exploited.
if they don't have one they'll make one! I have to suffer the idiots in my local gifted kid's group.....which we quit because my kids were tired of the stupidity of the parents...


"I think Suzy is gifted because most babies watch baby Einstein at 6 months but she would watch it at 4 months, and you can really tell she knew so much about what they were talking about"
"really? that's interesting :rolleyes:"
"well! when did your kids start watching it?"
"they never have, we didn't do TV at all until after 3"
"you deprived them!"
"yeah, I guess so"


They actually shop around until they find a psychologist that will give their kid a good score.....:pThis is really stupid because studies show that any type of baby television show makes the child more likely to have a smaller vocabulary than the babies who actually listen to real human beings instead of retarded tv shows.

Prodigies aren't made, they're BORN.

I never went to preschool, nor did I have any special learning augments. Yet I was in the Gifted program, and showed an amazingly rapid learning skill in all subjects excluding Math.

Yet, when my parents attempted to make me a baseball star by making me practice excessively, I failed at it. Horribly.

I'm sorry. I would've gone to the SU bar but the majority of my flat have gone home. Plus valentinse night at the bar equals loved up couples....

Don't get me started on Valentine's. Nearly ended up looking like I was making love to a cryostat trying to get it in a box so that we could send it off for repairs.

I felt a bit sorry for the kid when they were in NY. Poor kid started crying. Then the father says "There are two types of people in the world. Those who love Jesus and God and then those who hate Jesus and God. Those who hate Jesus are going to hell."

I did feel a tinge of guilt, but then I realised what an ass he'll end up being if he keeps that up. Then I just started hoping he'll grow up and realise it.

if they don't have one they'll make one! I have to suffer the idiots in my local gifted kid's group.....which we quit because my kids were tired of the stupidity of the parents...


"I think Suzy is gifted because most babies watch baby Einstein at 6 months but she would watch it at 4 months, and you can really tell she knew so much about what they were talking about"
"really? that's interesting :rolleyes:"
"well! when did your kids start watching it?"
"they never have, we didn't do TV at all until after 3"
"you deprived them!"
"yeah, I guess so"


They actually shop around until they find a psychologist that will give their kid a good score.....:p


its very distressing when parents fall for advertising instead of going with experts in child development. baby einstein wont do anything good for your child. TV isnt good for young minds (not all that good for old minds either). all these mothers did was see advertising and leave it at that.

forcing children to excell at a young age is far more likely to make sure that they drop the activity as soon as possbile than it is to make them some kind of star.

and to bring it back to the topic, making your preschool child afraid of going to hell seems like child abuse to me.

To be honest with you I don't like how the parents are forcing their beliefs on the kids. It's quite disturbing. It wouldn't bother me if the kids found these beliefs themselves.

It's against the Bible to force your beliefs on another person.

I mean, come on. Did Jesus force people to convert and threaten them with Hell if they didn't? And He was God...

The documentary is mainly facing on a 7 year old boy who along with his father is on a crusade across the States to convert people to Christianity. It's quite disturbing ot see a 7 year old child shouting at strangers and condemning them to Hell.

Hell is figurative. But not in Protestant Christianity...

The term "Bible basher" is the English language term for what some colonial dialects refer to as "Bible thumper".

We haven't been colonials for close to three centuries, thank you. :rolleyes:

Prodigies aren't made, they're BORN.

I never went to preschool, nor did I have any special learning augments. Yet I was in the Gifted program, and showed an amazingly rapid learning skill in all subjects excluding Math.

Yet, when my parents attempted to make me a baseball star by making me practice excessively, I failed at it. Horribly.I was in the gifted program. Too bad they never actually did anything except separate us from other kids. I think if they actually taught us something the parents of non gifted program kids would get mad or something.

if i ever had a small kid shout at me saying i will go to hell, i would probably laugh at them. then using small projectiles from somewhere would provide even more entertainment.

i wonder what would happen if they were holding a bible, and someone ran up and took it off them and started ripping out all the pages?
i would pay to see that happen

Not every child has been indoctrinated. Some children are raised to think for themselves instead of blindly obeying authority. I think kids are born with a natural trust for authority, but that doesn't have to be exploited.

Yes, but not when they are very young. Even if you told a child, every day, "Be sure to think for yourself," he would still just blindly follow whatever you do. Why? Because when a child is three, or even seven, he can't form opinions by themselves.
For example, when my brother very young (so I'm told), he was a diehard Republican, while everyone else in my family was a Democrat. Clearly, he did not pick up his political beliefs from my parents, who unsurprisingly didn't really talk politics with toddlers. So instead he learned of politics when he listened to the Republican president on the radio. Not surprisingly, he assumed what the nice-sounding older person said was true. Kids are going to mimic what they see no matter how hard a parent tries. The best thing is to a) be a good person to mimic and b) when they do get older, encourage them to think for themselves. But the effort will most likely be wasted on anyone younger than ten.

if i ever had a small kid shout at me saying i will go to hell, i would probably laugh at them. then using small projectiles from somewhere would provide even more entertainment.

i wonder what would happen if they were holding a bible, and someone ran up and took it off them and started ripping out all the pages?
i would pay to see that happen

That could be viewed as assault and willful destruction of property, so they would be arrested.

I was in the gifted program. Too bad they never actually did anything except separate us from other kids. I think if they actually taught us something the parents of non gifted program kids would get mad or something.

What are you talking about? They taught us how to do twice as much homework as everyone else, you don't call that valuable? :rolleyes:

I subbed for my old 5th grade teacher the other day, and during math a group of 7-8 advanced kids went to their own table to work on a lesson further along in the book, like usual. The lesson I was teaching the rest of the class was a review, because most of them failed it (and yet still ignored the whole lesson and told me "i don't get it!" as soon as it was time to do work). The kids at the back table had all obviously passed the last test, but shockingly, they told me that they had to do all the same homework as the rest of the class, plus their own pages. One or two said they didn't have to do it, arguments broke out, and I made a ruling that no one had to do the old lesson. What's the point of making them prove they already know it all over again?

This is a documentary I'm currently watching on Channel 4.

To be honest with you I don't like how the parents are forcing their beliefs on the kids. It's quite disturbing. It wouldn't bother me if the kids found these beliefs themselves.

Right now the father of one of the children is acting as her choreographer in how to preach to thousands.

So what is your feeling on these "Baby Bible Bashers"?

The documentary is mainly facing on a 7 year old boy who along with his father is on a crusade across the States to convert people to Christianity. It's quite disturbing ot see a 7 year old child shouting at strangers and condemning them to Hell.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u231/cheezeguy/n725075089_288918_2774.jpg

Seriously though, yea that is creepy. I understand wanting to tell your kids what you believe in, to share it. However, the problem I see is when the child rejects what the parents believe and take on another religious belief of his or her own and the parents will do as little as pray that the child sees the "light" or they go as extreme as disowning the child and banning the child from the family. That part I don't get, because the way I was raised is that the child you have is your child, and as good parents, you should love your child and be there for them no matter what.

I just don't see how any parents can disown and banish a child that they gave birth to and raise.

Lamb and Lynx Gaede were their names. If my parents had named me either of those I'd probably be pretty rageful, too.The newest addition to the family got named "Dresden"... Parents are divorced now, though. Apparently the bread-winner that the wife so proudly praised in front of some dirty immigrants is also a wife-beater.

The newest addition to the family got named "Dresden"... Parents are divorced now, though. Apparently the bread-winner that the wife so proudly praised in front of some dirty immigrants is also a wife-beater.
Are we talking about Prussian Blue here, or a different group entirely?

Are we talking about Prussian Blue here, or a different group entirely?
You know any other twins that sing white supremacist songs?

You know any other twins that sing white supremacist songs?

Well I have always had my suspicions about the Cheeky Girls, but I usually manage to turn off the radio before they fininsh 'singing' the first line.

This is really stupid because studies show that any type of baby television show makes the child more likely to have a smaller vocabulary than the babies who actually listen to real human beings instead of retarded tv shows.
There is a lot of uncertainty in parenting, there really isn't a way to know if you did a good job until 20 or 30 years down the road, and even then, maybe you still sucked and your kids just rocked enough to get past it.....I think a lot of parents expect/want/need big huge results for instant validation. If my kids woke up this morning and got ready for school without my help, I'm happy (they didn't....."mom! where's my tap shoes?!") if they eat their lunch and clean up their mess later, I'm happy. I can see those as signs that my kids are growing up to be adults that won't annoy me. My kids are smart, but I don't really think it's a sign of anything, other than I really need to pay attention to what I say/do in front of them and keep an eye out for plotting... they are shifty sometimes. :p

I hate to say, but most parents want their kids to share their beliefs, and most end up succeeding (NSG being the exception;)). There's nothing disturbing about it. After all, you'd be a bit upset if your kid rejected your views on tolerance and became a racist, wouldn't you?

Being against racism has logic to back it up, not ONLY faith, unlike religion. You can't explain to your kid why Christianity is the only good religion and everybody else goes to Hell, but you can explain why racism is just plain wrong.

Being against racism has logic to back it up, not ONLY faith, unlike religion. You can't explain to your kid why Christianity is the only good religion and everybody else goes to Hell, but you can explain why racism is just plain wrong.

Plenty of adults will not ask for any rational explanation, many will even be hostile towards any such attempt.
So why would kids ask for rationality?

Let them be that way, it's not like they're...denouncing the government.

and that would be worthy of complaining about?

Plenty of adults will not ask for any rational explanation, many will even be hostile towards any such attempt.
So why would kids ask for rationality?

All I am saying is that it is ok to convince your kid by rational means, it is not ok to brainwash him. Then again, you might say brainwashing is so much easier...probably, but it's still the wrong way.

BTW, kids don't ask for explanations at all most of the time, that does not mean you should not provide them with one.

The Bible was suppose to be a" blue print".On how to live a personl religious life. obviously the way that blue print is read and understood by the individual.determines if you come out with a beautiful chapel,or a gas chamber?
children should be playing with legos and looking at clouds,not forced into situations they can't understand,by adults...why don't they just make them all wear brown shirts for crying out loud!!!!:mad:

All I am saying is that it is ok to convince your kid by rational means, it is not ok to brainwash him. Then again, you might say brainwashing is so much easier...probably, but it's still the wrong way.

BTW, kids don't ask for explanations at all most of the time, that does not mean you should not provide them with one.

I once started a thread with the question of where people think child abuse would start, and I had kids very much like these in mind.

And kids will ask for explanations, ALL of the time. Only the explanations need not be rational.

The Bible was suppose to be a" blue print".On how to live a personl religious life.

no it wasn't.

Wow. That's disturbing.



And about the bible thumping children, I belive that children should be taught the truth, but left to make their own choice. Forcing your own belifs on children is not right. Give them time, and let them make a decision on their own. On religion at least.

I've discovered over time that the people I know with the most reasoned, strongest and appealing faiths are those who came to those faiths on their own. They came to it either after a rebellion against this kind of brainwashing (either intentional or habitual) or after a life of atheism, agnosticism or indifference. In short, nothing very good seems to come out of the indoctrination of youth. Exposure, explanation and exposition, sure, but not indoctrination.

I was in the gifted program. Too bad they never actually did anything except separate us from other kids. I think if they actually taught us something the parents of non gifted program kids would get mad or something.

Ah yes. I remember those days. I'd leave class at 9am (right after the flag salute, IIRC) and wouldn't be back in "regular" classes until after lunch. There's no better way to become an almost instant pariah than to be pulled out of the mainstream for whatever reason, but the "gifted" classes were a lock on ostracism. We were fed the notion that we were "gifted" and to a kid in fourth grade, no matter how brilliant, that equates into "different" at best, and at worst, either "better" or "freakish" -- neither of which is good for the ol' self-esteem...which schools have lately been killing themselves and ruining curricula to promote.

There are times when I think I made the wrong career choice as a teacher/professor. Not very often at all, but once in a while.

Yeah it was pretty disturbing, the kids have no opinions and the parents have forced it onto them, threatening that they will go to hell if they don't preach, which works on children.

It shouldn't be allowed

There is a lot of uncertainty in parenting, there really isn't a way to know if you did a good job until 20 or 30 years down the road, and even then, maybe you still sucked and your kids just rocked enough to get past it.....I think a lot of parents expect/want/need big huge results for instant validation. If my kids woke up this morning and got ready for school without my help, I'm happy (they didn't....."mom! where's my tap shoes?!") if they eat their lunch and clean up their mess later, I'm happy. I can see those as signs that my kids are growing up to be adults that won't annoy me. My kids are smart, but I don't really think it's a sign of anything, other than I really need to pay attention to what I say/do in front of them and keep an eye out for plotting... they are shifty sometimes. :p

You. Are. The. Best.

Thank you.

your actually bothering to watch another channel 4 "documentary"?

you could of just asked and I would of given you some fancy chocolates to keep you occupied ;)

Channel 4 actually make surprising good documentaries, but then add a tabloid style title to attract the lowest common denominator.

For example, a while back they made a sensitive and insightful documentary on the experiences and feelings of men who developed breasts during puberty and how they dealt with it (denial, shame, complete acceptance). They then masked the thoughtfulness of the documentary by naming it "Boys with boobs". :D

This reminds me of the movie "Jesus camp", where evangelical families send their children to get closer to God/reinforce their brainwashing. I was actually really disappointed with the filmmakers because while it seemed like they didn't agree with the concept of the camp they didn't go as far as they could have or should have to bash the camp or the churches that support this sort of thing. Normally I don't have an opinion on religion one way or another, but in my opinion a lot of these people are crossing, or at least blurring the line between religion and cult.

This reminds me of the movie "Jesus camp", where evangelical families send their children to get closer to God/reinforce their brainwashing. I was actually really disappointed with the filmmakers because while it seemed like they didn't agree with the concept of the camp they didn't go as far as they could have or should have to bash the camp or the churches that support this sort of thing. Normally I don't have an opinion on religion one way or another, but in my opinion a lot of these people are crossing, or at least blurring the line between religion and cult.

That camp was in, ironically, Devil's Lake, North Dakota. I once ran into the woman who was profiled as the prime mover of that enterprise at the Bismarck Airport. I'd just seen the film and wanted to approach her and ask her some questions, but I didn't think I'd be able to control my "WTF" lobe long enough to keep the exchange civil.

Now the bolded part of your post is interesting because I thought that the filmmakers did an excellent job because of perspective. Instead of beating the audience over the head with how screwed up and brainwashed these kids were going to be, they just let these particular evangelicals incriminate themselves. I thought it was a terrific piece of sunshine documentary making. Don't editorialize, just present, and let the people you want seen as problematic expose themselves, sans external harangue (hopefully, Michael Moore watched it).

Now the bolded part of your post is interesting because I thought that the filmmakers did an excellent job because of perspective. Instead of beating the audience over the head with how screwed up and brainwashed these kids were going to be, they just let these particular evangelicals incriminate themselves. I thought it was a terrific piece of sunshine documentary making. Don't editorialize, just present, and let the people you want seen as problematic expose themselves, sans external harangue (hopefully, Michael Moore watched it).

meh, I guess, but for people on the fence it would've been useful to show maybe more of the part where the kids go to DC and preach in the streets (I forget if that was in the outtakes or part of the actual movie) and just how crazy they get when put in the real world. I'm not saying that they should go all voice-over hand of god on the evangelicals, denouncing them throughout, but at the end it just wasn't as satisfying as it could've been.

I know what you're saying though.

meh, I guess, but for people on the fence it would've been useful to show maybe more of the part where the kids go to DC and preach in the streets (I forget if that was in the outtakes or part of the actual movie) and just how crazy they get when put in the real world. I'm not saying that they should go all voice-over hand of god on the evangelicals, denouncing them throughout, but at the end it just wasn't as satisfying as it could've been.

I know what you're saying though.

Yeah, some of those scenes were in the "bonus features" part of the DVD. That woman is just as odd-seeming in person as she is in the film.

Oh Lord, protect me from your followers. Please! Amen.

Children will believe anything an authority figure says. If you say that the moon is made of cheese and bring it up every day, devote a day to it every week, they will most likely their entire life believe the moon is cheese, despite what anyone tells them. That's sort of an obtuse example but it generally works.

Children should have a classical education their entire life, they can be exposed to fantasy and have an imagination but they must know the difference between fantasy and reality. The formative years of a child's life should be girded with language and 'social conformities' in the best interest of their own survival and of the survival of humanity. That includes basic cleanliness, respect to others, etc. After that they are given truths, scientifically verified truths, so that they know the basic workings of the universe. Then they are taught how to form an opinion and think logically for themselves. The final stage is being who they want to be by learning to express themselves.

It should only be at the very last stage that they have the access to religious texts. They should not be given to them, only provided if they ask for them, and with a knowledge of science and a set of analytical reasoning tools they can finally decide for themselves if they want to believe in a religion with no basis in fact.

Being against racism has logic to back it up, not ONLY faith, unlike religion. You can't explain to your kid why Christianity is the only good religion and everybody else goes to Hell, but you can explain why racism is just plain wrong.

The point of that comparison was to show that most parents want their kids to share their values, be they ideas on racial tolerance or religious ideas. The fact that the father is attempting to implant his ideas in his son doesn't make what he's doing detestable, it's the fact that you disagree with his ideals that makes him abhorrent.