NationStates Jolt Archive

What is your opinion on being able to have dual citizenship? I'm not refering to subnational or supranational citizenship, but rather having citizenship in two (or rarely more than two) nations.

There are 90 nations that allow you to have dual citizenship. Among them are Canada, the US, the UK, Chile and so on. Some nations that do not permit a person to have dual citizenship are Japan, Austria and India. If you are curious about a particular country, a complete list can be found here (http://www.opm.gov/extra/investigate/IS-01.pdf).

It's a very political issue at times. Back when Israel was bombing the shit out of Lebanon, the Canadian government took its sweet time repatriating Canadian citizens that had been living in Lebanon. Finally it spent a considerable sum to do so, coming under extreme fire from the public for doing so. You can read some of the arguments here (http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=63373066-d987-48c5-aa43-ecd5da885b2a). There has been talk for a while about creating a new Citizenship Act here in Canada, and some politicians have suggested disallowing dual citizenship.

In any case, your thoughts? Just to state up front, I support dual citizenship, and can't really fathom why people would seriously oppose it.

Bah, I'm tired, sorry...the fourth option is supposed to be 'have it, don't support it'.

I don't give enough shit about it to support it.

I support the idea, though I admit that my support is very much bound up by personal reasons given my family situation.

i can't imagine a rational reason to oppose it.

i can't imagine a rational reason to oppose it.

You've a poor imagination.

i can't imagine a rational reason to oppose it.

Well, rational I can't give you, but some of the arguments I've come across are:

1) Apparently you can only manage to be loyal to one country at a time.
2) People with dual citizenships could be terrorists.
3) I can't have it so no one should.

It generally comes up in terms of security concerns, or when people imagine dual citizens living abroad somehow abusing our social systems.

My kids have dual citizenship due to the fact their mother is not from the US. I would consider it a good thing especially since they could go to my wife's home country and attend university for free. Also it makes it easier for them to own land.

Well, rational I can't give you,

Tsk, tsk. What about the whole bit about the unclear situation one falls under when two nations wish to make claims as to sovereignty over you? For which nation does one do the national service? Which nation's embassy gets to visit you when you get yourself arrested? And so on...

Tsk, tsk. What about the whole bit about the unclear situation one falls under when two nations wish to make claims as to sovereignty over you? For which nation does one do the national service? Which nation's embassy gets to visit you when you get yourself arrested? And so on...

Generally one can voluntarily give up citizenship anyway if that is a real problem. Most Chileans I know (for example) end up getting medical exemptions to mandatory military service in Chile (dinero baby, buy your way out of it), but I could see it being a real problem if Chile wanted to enforce military service amongst dual citizenship holders that just come to visit.

The choice of law rule is that if you have dual citizenship, the laws of whichever nation you are in that you are a citizen of apply to you.
Where it gets trickier is when your dual citizenship is recognised in one country but not another. For example, China doesn't accept dual citizenship. If you are a Chinese citizen, with Canadian citizenship, and you end up arrested in Uzbekistan and shipped back to China, China will not recognise your Canadian citizenship. Canada, being the pussy it is, will not fight very hard to do anything about it.

If you have dual citizenship and run into trouble in a third country, then it gets trickier...but not appreciably so.

My kids have dual citizenship due to the fact their mother is not from the US. I would consider it a good thing especially since they could go to my wife's home country and attend university for free. Also it makes it easier for them to own land.

I'd like to get dual citizenship so I can run away more easily if the economy here tanks :D

Generally one can voluntarily give up citizenship anyway if that is a real problem.

The choice of law rule is that if you have dual citizenship, the laws of whichever nation you are in that you are a citizen of apply to you.

So, when one, say, visits one of the countries where one has dodged the draft, they'll listen to your "choice"? Sometimes it is a crime to shirk the responsibilities of a citizenship - it's not all sunshine and lollipops, and having a dual set only adds more shit to the fan blades.

Where it gets trickier is when your dual citizenship is recognised in one country but not another. For example, China doesn't accept dual citizenship. If you are a Chinese citizen, with Canadian citizenship, and you end up arrested in Uzbekistan and shipped back to China, China will not recognise your Canadian citizenship. Canada, being the pussy it is, will not fight very hard to do anything about it.

If you have dual citizenship and run into trouble in a third country, then it gets trickier...but not appreciably so.

See, several rational arguments against for which you offer no appreciable solution. I knew you could do it.

I'd like to get dual citizenship so I can run away more easily if the economy here tanks :D

If the economy tanks in the US and Canada there won't be to many places one could run to that would be any better.

Tsk, tsk. What about the whole bit about the unclear situation one falls under when two nations wish to make claims as to sovereignty over you? For which nation does one do the national service?


National service argument doesn't always apply for dual citizenship issues.

See Northern Ireland.

Which nation's embassy gets to visit you when you get yourself arrested? And so on...

Whichever one has an embassy in the country you're in - if both, you choose and as you have citizenship of said country, they have no right to refuse to help you.

Dual citizenship is fine IMHO as long as the citizen is prepared to meet responsibilities to both nations.

For example, in my case, if my father's country were to be invaded I'd feel an obligation, as a citizen of that country as well as the USA, to help defend it.

I don't agree that this is an inherent responsibility.

In fact, I don't really consider anything to be an inherent responsibility of citizenship. Especially when there is generally a difference between citizenship obtained by birth, and citizenship obtained by naturalisation. Most countries believe they should have the right to revoke the latter if they feel like it. If citizenship were inherently linked to certain responsibilities, then I don't believe it should be possible to revoke the benefits of citizenship.

When speaking of political realities, generally there will be tax issues that apply to you as a dual citizen, and perhaps other responsibilities you'll face, true.

Dual citizenship is fine IMHO as long as the citizen is prepared to meet responsibilities to both nations.

For example, in my case, if my father's country were to be invaded I'd feel an obligation, as a citizen of that country as well as the USA, to help defend it.

National service argument doesn't always apply for dual citizenship issues.

Insert other responsibility of citizenship, then.

Whichever one has an embassy in the country you're in - if both, you choose and as you have citizenship of said country, they have no right to refuse to help you.

Actually, they do have a right to refuse to help you since they can claim abandonment of citizenship by allegiance with another nation through the second citizenship. So, both could end up ditching you if they were willing to, referring to the other nation's duties.

Don't have it, support it.

you put option on the poll twice BTW

I think it's a good idea, though elected officials should have to pick just one country, to prevent possible conflicts of interest or divided loyalties.

So, when one, say, visits one of the countries where one has dodged the draft, they'll listen to your "choice"? No, I'm not saying YOU choose. When deciding which jurisdiction prevails, in situations where a person has dual citizenship, the laws of the country they are in prevail (assuming citizenship there). So in your example, dodging the draft means you'll face the sanctions. Best to renounce your citizenship there BEFORE that happens.


Sometimes it is a crime to shirk the responsibilities of a citizenship - it's not all sunshine and lollipops, and having a dual set only adds more shit to the fan blades. Interesting...I've never actually heard someone who opposed it for reasons relating to the negative consequences it might have on the person holding dual citizenship. It's true, just because citizenship can often be voluntarily given up, doesn't mean people are aware of the consequences if they don't.


See, several rational arguments against for which you offer no appreciable solution. I knew you could do it.Well, okay let's look at the Chinese example. That situation would be the same even if the person in question did not have Canadian citizenship as well as Chinese citizenship. China will not recognise the dual citizenship, and Canada won't put itself out to help its naturalised citizen. Were it France, however, it is more likely that more of a ruckus would be raised, and it's quite possible that the imprisoned dual citizen would be released due to political pressure.

So, if you are shopping around for dual citizenship, perhaps you should pick a second nation that actively protects its citizens abroad? Not really a great solution.

In the case of getting into trouble in a third country, while being a dual citizen of two other countries...it's not really much more complicated than only having one citizenship. Depending on which nation (or nations) you are a citizen of, you will recieve differing levels of support from that nation of citizenship. Canada, for example, might let you rot in a Mexican jail for a while, or get bombed to shit in Lebanon. Other nations like the US, might fight for you more actively. All dual citizenship would add to this is the chance that if one of your nations cares less about you, that perhaps the other might help you out.

Insert other responsibility of citizenship, then.


First one that springs to mind would be voting.


Actually, they do have a right to refuse to help you since they can claim abandonment of citizenship by allegiance with another nation through the second citizenship. So, both could end up ditching you if they were willing to, referring to the other nation's duties.

But we're not talking about 'abandonment' of citizenship. If you are entitled to hold two passports from two separate states, then there is no legal basis to be refused on the grounds on 'abandonment'.

That's from my own experience - maybe the US is different, as I think that's what the argument seems to be mainly aimed at.

Is it much of an issue in Sweden or neighbouring Scandinavian states?

If the economy tanks in the US and Canada there won't be to many places one could run to that would be any better.

Don't be silly. Of course there would be. A warm place with a home you've already purchased for a ridiculously low price out in the countryside, where you could grow your own food pretty much year round. There is a big difference between a tanked economy with skyrocketing energy prices in a country that has winter 8 months out of the year and temperatures that plummet to -40 degrees....and the same in a country where it never gets colder than a few degrees above freezing.

Actually, they do have a right to refuse to help you since they can claim abandonment of citizenship by allegiance with another nation through the second citizenship. So, both could end up ditching you if they were willing to, referring to the other nation's duties.

Generally we define dual citizenship as holding legal citizenship in two nations that also recognise dual citizenship. In that case, the other citizenship is already recognised and cannot be repudiated by the nation simply on the grounds of abandonment of citizenship by allegiance with another nation through second citizenship.

Your scenario would come up when a person has citizenship in two countries and either one or both of those nations refuse to recognise dual citizenship. I'm not sure that you could actually claim to have dual citizenship in that case though, since the moment you acquired citizenship in the one country, the other would no longer consider you a legal citizen of the first country.

I've got dual citizenship (UK and Ireland) so yep i'm all for it

But we're not talking about 'abandonment' of citizenship. If you are entitled to hold two passports from two separate states, then there is no legal basis to be refused on the grounds on 'abandonment'. Well that's not entirely correct. You might be entitled to hold passports from two separate states, but it doesn't mean you actually have dual citizenship. For example, say you were born in Lybia and have never repudiated your citizenship there. You are able to get a passport. You've become a Canadian citizen, and are eligible for a passport. However, Lybia doesn't recognise dual citizenship. You haven't given up Lybian citizenship so in their eyes you are only a Lybian citizen. Canada does recognise dual citizenship so it has no problem with you having two passports. The only way you'd run into trouble is if you tried to use your Canadian passport in Lybia. But you wouldn't. You'd use your Lybian passport.

Were it to come up though, Lybia absolutely could say that through your actions you'd renounced citizenship. Canada could not. It's something you'd have to be on the look out for.

I could potentially have triple citizenship thanks to Northern Ireland's weirdness and the fact that my mum isn't a native. But I have no loyalty to any nation state at all, and I would quite readily renounce any or even all of the three were they to ask me to serve for a cause I didn't believe in.

If and when I become eligible for US citizenship I intend to hold dual citizenship and I can't see how that would negatively affect me.

I could potentially have triple citizenship thanks to Northern Ireland's weirdness and the fact that my mum isn't a native. But I have no loyalty to any nation state at all, and I would quite readily renounce any or even all of the three were they to ask me to serve for a cause I didn't believe in.

Triple citizenship? How's that? You could have your father's citizenship, your mom's citizenship (assuming), and what other citizenship? I don't really know of any countries that would allow you to be a citizen of more than two nations, but I'd love to hear of them!

Is it much of an issue in Sweden or neighbouring Scandinavian states?

Sweden used not to allow dual citizenship and considered the Swedish one lost as soon as a person gained another citizenship and did not grant Swedish citizenship to people unwilling to renounce their old one. Since 2001, though, dual citizenship is allowed*, but a Swede born abroad who has never lived in Sweden under a form that shows "connection with the realm" automatically loses Swedish citizenship when (s)he reaches the age of 22 unless (s)he takes steps to keep it by making a special application thereto.

*Still, if one wishes to become a Swedish citizen one may keep one's old citizenship only if that nation allows it.

If and when I become eligible for US citizenship I intend to hold dual citizenship and I can't see how that would negatively affect me.

Well take Fass' example...what if they began drafting again in the US? As a citizen you'd be eligible for that...would you be okay with that?

Your scenario would come up when a person has citizenship in two countries and either one or both of those nations refuse to recognise dual citizenship. I'm not sure that you could actually claim to have dual citizenship in that case though, since the moment you acquired citizenship in the one country, the other would no longer consider you a legal citizen of the first country.

Some countries have ius soli, others have ius sanguinis (some have a mix). Think about it.

I could potentially have triple citizenship thanks to Northern Ireland's weirdness and the fact that my mum isn't a native. But I have no loyalty to any nation state at all, and I would quite readily renounce any or even all of the three were they to ask me to serve for a cause I didn't believe in.

Yay for the Good Friday Agreement

Well that's not entirely correct. *snip*

Well, obviously the states have to recognise the status of duality - I was taking that as a given in the argument.

Sweden used not to allow dual citizenship and considered the Swedish one lost as soon as a person gained another citizenship and did not grant Swedish citizenship to people unwilling to renounce their old one. Since 2001, though, dual citizenship is allowed*, but a Swede born abroad who has never lived in Sweden under a form that shows "connection with the realm" automatically loses Swedish citizenship when (s)he reaches the age of 22 unless (s)he takes steps to keep it by making a special application thereto.

*Still, if one wishes to become a Swedish citizen one may keep one's old citizenship only if that nation allows it.

Ah. Interesting. Sounds fair enough to be honest. IMO, duality only works for particular situations - i.e contention of sovereignty like in Northern Ireland.

Was there any "special relationship" with Norway or to a lesser extent, Denmark, in the past?

No, I'm not saying YOU choose. When deciding which jurisdiction prevails, in situations where a person has dual citizenship, the laws of the country they are in prevail (assuming citizenship there). So in your example, dodging the draft means you'll face the sanctions. Best to renounce your citizenship there BEFORE that happens.

That doesn't exactly speak for the case of dual citizenship, having to abandon one...

Interesting...I've never actually heard someone who opposed it for reasons relating to the negative consequences it might have on the person holding dual citizenship. It's true, just because citizenship can often be voluntarily given up, doesn't mean people are aware of the consequences if they don't.

Never? I'm surprised since it is usually one of the main arguments against dual citizenship.

Well, okay let's look at the Chinese example. That situation would be the same even if the person in question did not have Canadian citizenship as well as Chinese citizenship. China will not recognise the dual citizenship, and Canada won't put itself out to help its naturalised citizen.

But if the person only had Canadian citizenship China would have to view him as a foreigner and would have certain obligations towards Canada (not that China honours them always, but let's assume a country that would). This way, China gets a "valid" excuse to ignore Canada.

Were it France, however, it is more likely that more of a ruckus would be raised, and it's quite possible that the imprisoned dual citizen would be released due to political pressure.

France's willingness to surrender to such is greatly exaggerated, as well you should know. :p

So, if you are shopping around for dual citizenship, perhaps you should pick a second nation that actively protects its citizens abroad? Not really a great solution.

Citizenships are not always shopped around for, either. Sometimes they are baggage.

In the case of getting into trouble in a third country, while being a dual citizen of two other countries...it's not really much more complicated than only having one citizenship. Depending on which nation (or nations) you are a citizen of, you will recieve differing levels of support from that nation of citizenship. Canada, for example, might let you rot in a Mexican jail for a while, or get bombed to shit in Lebanon. Other nations like the US, might fight for you more actively. All dual citizenship would add to this is the chance that if one of your nations cares less about you, that perhaps the other might help you out.

Or both ignore you since you're "that other nation's problem".

Triple citizenship? How's that? You could have your father's citizenship, your mom's citizenship (assuming), and what other citizenship? I don't really know of any countries that would allow you to be a citizen of more than two nations, but I'd love to hear of them!

Mothers Nationality : From neither the UK or Ireland

Dads : Northern Ireland i'm guessing so that will be UK citizenship

Good Friday Agreement : All Northern Ireland citizens are eligible for Irish citizenship

Edit : Although I suspect this is only a fun idea and not actually a legal possibility due to the wording of the GFA

*Still, if one wishes to become a Swedish citizen one may keep one's old citizenship only if that nation allows it.

I think that's a good idea, just from a policy perspective. It doesn't make sense to have dual citizenship in one country, but not in the other country of citizenship.

but a Swede born abroad who has never lived in Sweden under a form that shows "connection with the realm" automatically loses Swedish citizenship when (s)he reaches the age of 22 unless (s)he takes steps to keep it by making a special application thereto.
Here, if you've acquired citizenship by descent outside of Canada, you have until 28 do do the same.

Also, shockingly, before 1947, there was no legislation dealing with citizenship. So unless your parents were British citizens, or got your citizenship after, if you were born on Canadian soil to non-Canadian parents before 1947, you might not be a citizen. This came up recently as everyone rushed to get passports to cross over into the US. I've discovered for example that my 82 year old grandmother is not a citizen, despite having been born here. I imagine Parliament will rectify this at some point, but no guarantee.

Well, obviously the states have to recognise the status of duality - I was taking that as a given in the argument.

But it rarely is a given. I think we should distinguish between 'true' dual citizenship and 'limited' dual citizenship, for ease of understanding.

Triple citizenship? How's that? You could have your father's citizenship, your mom's citizenship (assuming), and what other citizenship? I don't really know of any countries that would allow you to be a citizen of more than two nations, but I'd love to hear of them!
Mothers Nationality : From neither the UK or Ireland

Dads : Northern Ireland i'm guessing so that will be UK citizenship

Good Friday Agreement : All Northern Ireland citizens are eligible for Irish citizenship
Just that. It's a rather neat quirk, it must be said.

Some countries have ius soli, others have ius sanguinis (some have a mix). Think about it.

Jus soli (right of the soil, citizenship by birth), jus sanguinis (right of descent, citizenship by blood). Canada has both. Nonetheless, if a nation does not recognise dual citizenship there are two options. Refuse to recognise the second citizenship, or consider the acquisition of the second citizenship to be a repudiation of the first citizenship. Once again, if one nation (or both) refused to recognise dual citizenship, I don't really think you could claim to HAVE dual citizenship regardless of jus soli/jus sanguinis/or a mixture. How you get the citizenship is not as important in this context as how you lose it.

Was there any "special relationship" with Norway or to a lesser extent, Denmark, in the past?

Well, when Norway was under Swedish rule Norwegians were Swedes, even if it was officially a union and the citizens were "Swedish-Norwegian", but that's more than a century ago and Finland and Denmark even longer... The citizens of the other Nordic Council nations have a special status in the member nations (much of it superseded by EU citizenship, though, apart from Norway and Iceland) through several recognition treaties (it's too late for me to remember what all of them entail, but one is for instance no need for residency permits or passports to enter and dwell in the nations, and Sweden-Denmark are working on further clarifying taxation rights when it comes to the Öresund-region created by the bridge).

That doesn't exactly speak for the case of dual citizenship, having to abandon one... Well, I can't exactly support the case that you should retain both citizenships AND avoid the negative repercussions of that. If you know that you'll be drafted in the nation of your first or second citizenship and you don't want that, give it up if you can. If you do not have the ability or desire to do so, just make sure you don't go there.


Never? I'm surprised since it is usually one of the main arguments against dual citizenship. Not here. Here it's all xenophobia and fearmongering.


But if the person only had Canadian citizenship China would have to view him as a foreigner and would have certain obligations towards Canada (not that China honours them always, but let's assume a country that would). This way, China gets a "valid" excuse to ignore Canada. Notice I said the situation would be the same if the person did not have Canadian citizenship on top of Chinese citizenship. If the person were ONLY a Canadian citizen the situation would be altered in the way you've mentioned. That's obvious. Dual citizenship is not the problem. Chinese citizenship in this case is.

France's willingness to surrender to such is greatly exaggerated, as well you should know. :p
I'm sorry, I must not have made that clear. I am saying that if the Chinese citizen in question ALSO had French citizenship, he'd likely be better off, because France tends to fight for its citizens abroad, unlike Canada.

Citizenships are not always shopped around for, either. Sometimes they are baggage.
Agreed...the very small percentage of people able to do such shopping are not people I'm particularily worried about.


Or both ignore you since you're "that other nation's problem".
If you have dual citizenship and at least one of those nations recognises your dual citizenship, it can not fob you off on the other country if that other country refuses to help. If both recognise your dual citizenship then yes, they could do a bit of back and forth, hot potato.

I am a dual citizen.

One of the countries has a draft. However, they also have an exemption for dual citizens who live abroad.

If I were detained in either country, I would be tried as a citizen of that country. In a third country, I would probably contact the embassy that most stood a chance of getting me out.

It never even occured to me that I might be ineligible for public office in Canada for that reason.

Jus soli (right of the soil, citizenship by birth), jus sanguinis (right of descent, citizenship by blood). Canada has both. Nonetheless, if a nation does not recognise dual citizenship there are two options. Refuse to recognise the second citizenship, or consider the acquisition of the second citizenship to be a repudiation of the first citizenship. Once again, if one nation (or both) refused to recognise dual citizenship, I don't really think you could claim to HAVE dual citizenship regardless of jus soli/jus sanguinis/or a mixture. How you get the citizenship is not as important in this context as how you lose it.

You didn't think about it. Say I am born to Fassist nationals in a country that has ius soli. I am granted Fassist citizenship by Fass by virtue of my parents, but I am also at the same time granted citizenship in the country where I was born just for being born there. Neither of the countries need recognise the other citizenship, yet both honour their own since no "application" or "invocation" was made on my part to gain any of the citizenships - both are automatic. So, dual citizenship babies are created which can claim dual citizenship despite the two countries not honouring the other one. The problem comes when I invoke both of the citizenships in, for instance, a consular affair. Both countries may choose to abandon me.

Not here. Here it's all xenophobia and fearmongering.

Well, your neighbouring countries are quite a small number, so it's not something faced by the lot that tends to like xenophobia and fearmongering...

Notice I said the situation would be the same if the person did not have Canadian citizenship on top of Chinese citizenship. If the person were ONLY a Canadian citizen the situation would be altered in the way you've mentioned. That's obvious. Dual citizenship is not the problem. Chinese citizenship in this case is.

A Chinese citizenship that becomes a problem due to the existence of dual citizenship.

I'm sorry, I must not have made that clear. I am saying that if the Chinese citizen in question ALSO had French citizenship, he'd likely be better off, because France tends to fight for its citizens abroad, unlike Canada.

You greatly underestimate the one and overestimate the other.

If you have dual citizenship and at least one of those nations recognises your dual citizenship, it can not fob you off on the other country if that other country refuses to help. If both recognise your dual citizenship then yes, they could do a bit of back and forth, hot potato.

We're doing cross-posting of the same issue here, but what if neither of the countries recognises dual citizenship? As I mentioned elsewhere, that can happen to a baby born in a country with ius soli to parents from a country with ius sanguinis.

In regard to the Canada/China points being made, the issue is not that 'Canada will abandon you'. It's political. I believe the heart of the issue in that story was/is the shakey relationship Canada has with China in relation with extridting criminals. The deal from China was, we'll give you back your citizen, if you give us back ours to punish him here. Canada said no bananas on that one, 'cause we're humanitarians or something. >>;

On the other hand, a friend of mine travelling from Canada to America with dual Canadian/Irish citizenship went through hell at American customs because she only had her Irish passport, which apparently made her a security risk. :rolleyes:

No. I do not support it, at all. Pick one. Usually people use it as just a convenience. Maybe the idealist in me thinks people shouldn't have split loyalties.

Now, legal long term residence in multiple nations I fully support.

I hold 3 passports, British, Canadian & Australian. Does that mean I'm a triple citizen?

I definitely support it. :)

Triple citizenship? How's that? You could have your father's citizenship, your mom's citizenship (assuming), and what other citizenship? I don't really know of any countries that would allow you to be a citizen of more than two nations, but I'd love to hear of them!

Well I've got Irish citizenship (where my parents were born) the UK (where I was born) and the US (where I've lived for the last 22 years.)

I wasn't certain about the status of the first two for a while, but my brother recently moved back to Ireland, and everything is still in place

Well I've got Irish citizenship (where my parents were born) the UK (where I was born) and the US (where I've lived for the last 22 years.)

I wasn't certain about the status of the first two for a while, but my brother recently moved back to Ireland, and everything is still in place

Could you get triple citizenship by being born in the united states, to parents of two different non-USA citizenships?

I wasn't certain about the status of the first two for a while, but my brother recently moved back to Ireland, and everything is still in place

No shit?

Where'd he move to?

Could you get triple citizenship by being born in the united states, to parents of two different non-USA citizenships?

No, it's a quirk of the Irish Constitution - well was a quirk.

Edit: Sorry, thought you meant in relation to Ireland - the others below have cleared that up. Ahem.

Some nations that do not permit a person to have dual citizenship are Japan

You can be a dual citizen of Japan 'till you are 22, I believe.

I am a citizen of Japan and America, and I enjoy it. Immigration and customs is so much easier. >.>

Could you get triple citizenship by being born in the united states, to parents of two different non-USA citizenships?
Yes, depending upon the nationalities of the non-citizens. The US grants citizenship if a child is born on US soil and most other nations allow citizenship to children born abroad to their citizens, but each has different ways of what it takes to claim it.

Oh, Neesika, technically speaking, the US does not recognize dual citizenship, or rather, the US has no law in regards to dual citizenship and no official stance on it, beyond the State Dept. saying that they think it's a bad idea, but the US won't force you to give up your other citizenship.

You can be a dual citizen of Japan 'till you are 22, I believe.
Japan's quirky about that. You're supposed to renounce your citizenship if you want to remain Japanese, but with Japanese nationals who have citizenship due to Japanese blood, they don't bother to actually check so as long as you don't shove your passport in the Justice Minister's face...

Indeed. I plan on trying to stay a dual citizen as long as possible, if they don't notice me. >.>

Oh, Neesika, technically speaking, the US does not recognize dual citizenship, or rather, the US has no law in regards to dual citizenship and no official stance on it, beyond the State Dept. saying that they think it's a bad idea, but the US won't force you to give up your other citizenship.

I was wondering about this, what are the rules on US citizens who move abroad? I have a friend who did the opposite move to me (US to UK) and he said he was thinking about taking British nationality but didn't want to renounce his US citizenship. I was under the impression you could have dual nationality as I know Terry Gilliam renounced his sometime after taking British citizenship.

I wonder though, if you're a natural-born citizen of the United States, would you even be allowed to renounce it in order to gain citizenship to a non-dual country?

And if you ever wanted to regain your US citizenship, would you have to be naturalized like an immigrant or is there a special procedure?

*thinks*

I remember back in the Hezbollah/Israel War that the Australian government had thousands of Lebanese/Australian dual citizens evacuated because of the bombings. Anyways the next week or so it was like no one had heard of dual citizenship until now, and tonnes of rednecks etc rang up talkback radio saying how these 'Lebs' were 'traitors', 'disloyal', 'terrorists', 'should be made to stay in the middle-east' etc etc, so I guess that's the general 'argument' against it.

I remember back in the Hezbollah/Israel War that the Australian government had thousands of Lebanese/Australian dual citizens evacuated because of the bombings. Anyways the next week or so it was like no one had heard of dual citizenship until now, and tonnes of rednecks etc rang up talkback radio saying how these 'Lebs' were 'traitors', 'disloyal', 'terrorists', 'should be made to stay in the middle-east' etc etc, so I guess that's the general 'argument' against it.

That's all the explanation you need.

Yes, depending upon the nationalities of the non-citizens. The US grants citizenship if a child is born on US soil and most other nations allow citizenship to children born abroad to their citizens, but each has different ways of what it takes to claim it.

Oh, Neesika, technically speaking, the US does not recognize dual citizenship, or rather, the US has no law in regards to dual citizenship and no official stance on it, beyond the State Dept. saying that they think it's a bad idea, but the US won't force you to give up your other citizenship.

Yes, for the scenario I asked about, it would have to assume that one gets citizenship the the parents' nations by being born to said citizens.

You didn't think about it. Say I am born to Fassist nationals in a country that has ius soli. I am granted Fassist citizenship by Fass by virtue of my parents, but I am also at the same time granted citizenship in the country where I was born just for being born there. Neither of the countries need recognise the other citizenship, yet both honour their own since no "application" or "invocation" was made on my part to gain any of the citizenships - both are automatic. So, dual citizenship babies are created which can claim dual citizenship despite the two countries not honouring the other one. The problem comes when I invoke both of the citizenships in, for instance, a consular affair. Both countries may choose to abandon me.

The problem you identify here is nothing like as bad as the inverse situation. My son was born in a country that recognizes jus sanguinis, but of a mother that was not a citizen of that state, so therefore he is not recognized as being a citizen by birth in that state (the State in question only accepts the mother's nationality as being relevant, as the father could be anyone). However the state of which his mother is a citizen only recognizes Jus soli, and he was not born there, so he is not a citizen of that state either.

Now tell me, which nationality does he "naturally" have? None, both, or one or the other.

The problem comes when he tries to invoke any nationality whatsoever.

If someone meets a certain country's standards for becoming a citizen, then there shouldn't be any reason why they shouldn't be a citizen of that country. It is up to that country to decide how stringent they should be, and their own fault if someone who they do not want to be a citizen gets a citizenship in their country if they had anything to say about it.

I was wondering about this, what are the rules on US citizens who move abroad? I have a friend who did the opposite move to me (US to UK) and he said he was thinking about taking British nationality but didn't want to renounce his US citizenship. I was under the impression you could have dual nationality as I know Terry Gilliam renounced his sometime after taking British citizenship.
They don't lose US citizenship unless they renounce it in front of a consular official (And even then that doesn't get you out of certain obligations, mainly to the IRS). Now if they have to give up their US citizenship is dependent upon the nation they are nationalizing in. For example, if I decided to nationalize as a Japanese citizen here in Japan, I would need to give up my US citizenship (Not that Japan checks, but you're supposed to), that's Japan's rule, not the US though.

The only way I know of to be stripped of your citizenship is to take up arms for a foreign prince against the US.

Don't have it - don't support it.

Why should I?

I wonder though, if you're a natural-born citizen of the United States, would you even be allowed to renounce it in order to gain citizenship to a non-dual country?

And if you ever wanted to regain your US citizenship, would you have to be naturalized like an immigrant or is there a special procedure?

*thinks*
If you renounced it, you would have to reapply for it the same as every other non-immigrant to the US. At least you'd have sponcers though. ;)

I'm against citizenship in general, so meh...

Don't have it - don't support it.

Why should I?

what did dual citizenship ever do to you?

They don't lose US citizenship unless they renounce it in front of a consular official (And even then that doesn't get you out of certain obligations, mainly to the IRS). Now if they have to give up their US citizenship is dependent upon the nation they are nationalizing in. For example, if I decided to nationalize as a Japanese citizen here in Japan, I would need to give up my US citizenship (Not that Japan checks, but you're supposed to), that's Japan's rule, not the US though.

The only way I know of to be stripped of your citizenship is to take up arms for a foreign prince against the US.

Even then, though, the criteria needed to be stripped of citizenship has changed so much over the years that you can only renounce it directly in front of a US diplomat on foreign soil. I think even that guy from California that signed up as a member of al Qaeda 'renounced' his citizenship via the internet, but the US government failed to recognize his renunciation until he was tried for treason in a US court.

I hold 3 passports, British, Canadian & Australian. Does that mean I'm a triple citizen?

I definitely support it. :)

Probably means that you are a fugitive running from the law. Just in case I wouldn't use the alias Jason Bourne. ;)

Probably means that you are a fugitive running from the law. Just in case I wouldn't use the alias Jason Bourne. ;)

How about Guy Incognito?

I support duel citizenship, shoot an ambassador at ten paces and you gain U.S nationality. Then it truly will be the home of the brave.

Just to state up front, I support dual citizenship, and can't really fathom why people would seriously oppose it.Jealousy, I assume. That and having dirty forinners like me having as much say in their election as they would, if they could move their lazy asses to the voting booth.

Don't have it - don't support it.

Why should I?
Because I've got it you nimwit! I thought we were friends! ='(

Don't have it, support it, especially as it raises questions to the validity of responsibilities of citizenship.

I support duel citizenship, shoot an ambassador at ten paces and you gain U.S nationality. Then it truly will be the home of the brave.

I am wholeheartedly in favour of this idea.

Anyway, I do support dual citizenship. Unsurprising, really, as I have it (UK US, both by birth). I'm aware of possible problems with regards to being drafted, etc, but I think I'll revoke the first nation that tries that, and leave the second one.

I've never really cared about patriotism or standing up for your country, so that doesn't matter. Why should I fight and die for some nation that I happened to be born in?

I support double citizenship. I am both a Spanish and a US citizen and I carry both passports with me, although I make Spain my home.

I've never really cared about patriotism or standing up for your country, so that doesn't matter. Why should I fight and die for some nation that I happened to be born in?
Do you want that country to support you, if another country causes you trouble?
Do you want the right to vote, and perhaps to run for office, in that country?
Do you want a guaranteed right of residence in that country?

Rights come with responsibilities.

Do you want that country to support you, if another country causes you trouble?
Do you want the right to vote, and perhaps to run for office, in that country?
Do you want a guaranteed right of residence in that country?

Rights come with responsibilities.Yeah. They're called taxes.

Yeah. They're called taxes.

And 'national service', if that's in the rules set by the country's government, and jury service in some countries too, and generally obeying the laws...

I like the idea of dual citizenship, but I do not have it. If I were to seek it, my ancestral blood ties to Switzerland would make that my primary choice. (The number of people who share my last name, for instance, is limited outside of that country.)

Apparently, it is legal for people of dual citizenship can run for public office in Canada. In fact, Stephane Dion, the leader of the opposition and perhaps Canada's next Prime Minister, holds dual citizenship from Canada and France.

what did dual citizenship ever do to you?
Absolutely nothing - that's why I don't support it.
Because I've got it you nimwit! I thought we were friends! ='(
Oh, we are. But that doesn't mean I have to be friends with dual citizenship. ;)

Some nations that do not permit a person to have dual citizenship are Japan, Austria and India.

India now has something called "Overseas Indian Citizenship" which has relaxed visa regime, allows you to buy property etc. Something like the Green Card system in US but falls far short of the full deal.

Being an immigrant and having seen the hassles people who have families across many countries go through ...I hope more and more countries give dual citizenship.

Do you want that country to support you, if another country causes you trouble?
Do you want the right to vote, and perhaps to run for office, in that country?
Do you want a guaranteed right of residence in that country?

Rights come with responsibilities.

I'm an anarchist. I don't recognise the right of any country to rule anybody. If necessary, I'll decamp in a PAZ and live there. A pox on your governments.

Even if I were to recognise government as legitimate, I still feel that simply saying "Hey, I happened to be born here, I support them to the death" is a stupid idea. Choose who you want to support, not just mindlessly follow some nation.

I'm currently in the process of getting dual citizenship.

No shit?

Where'd he move to?

Outside Castlebar. That's about as specific as I can get right now. I'd know better if we didn't rely on e-mail. The stateside family will all be going to visit him in August, but I'm the only one that hasn't been able to make the trip yet.

Outside Castlebar. That's about as specific as I can get right now. I'd know better if we didn't rely on e-mail. The stateside family will all be going to visit him in August, but I'm the only one that hasn't been able to make the trip yet.

Ah. Out West.

Nice place to visit actually, especially in the summer time. The locals will treat him nice, if he plays nice ;)

I was wondering about this, what are the rules on US citizens who move abroad? I have a friend who did the opposite move to me (US to UK) and he said he was thinking about taking British nationality but didn't want to renounce his US citizenship. I was under the impression you could have dual nationality as I know Terry Gilliam renounced his sometime after taking British citizenship.

You still have to pay US taxes, despite the fact that you may not earn any US income. There's something of a rash of US ex-pats right now because they don't want to keep paying taxes to a country that does not contribute to their livelihood. And on top of that, various legislators are considering passing a law that requires ex-pats to keep paying US income taxes for 10 years after they renounce citizenship. I'm not sure how that would work constitutionally or diplomatically though.