NationStates Jolt Archive

How the hell, in an age of instant worldwide communication and cheap and inexpensive access to the entire planets body of knowledge, DO WE STILL HAVE WITCHCRAFT TRIALS ON THIS PLANET in 2008? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/14/world/main3829929.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3829929

Witchcraft is still thought very much real by a large percentage of the world's populace. If this surprises or horrifies you then you've not been paying attention to humanity since.. ever.

How the hell, in an age of instant worldwide communication and cheap and inexpensive access to the entire planets body of knowledge, DO WE STILL HAVE WITCHCRAFT TRIALS ON THIS PLANET in 2008? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/14/world/main3829929.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3829929

Funny though, I do agree those Saudis aren't as learned as the Egyptians.

Witchcraft is still thought very much real by a large percentage of the world's populace. If this surprises or horrifies you then you've not been paying attention to humanity since.. ever.

Exactly.

Hell, witchcraft is still punishable by death in the Central African Republic, and "witches" (even children) are regularly killed in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

...

This is mightily retarded.

How the hell, in an age of instant worldwide communication and cheap and inexpensive access to the entire planets body of knowledge, DO WE STILL HAVE WITCHCRAFT TRIALS ON THIS PLANET in 2008? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/14/world/main3829929.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3829929

...

This is mightily retarded.

That's Saudi Arabia for you.

Witchcraft is still thought very much real by a large percentage of the world's populace. If this surprises or horrifies you then you've not been paying attention to humanity since.. ever.

Are you telling me that there are hundreds of thousands of Saudi men who have more money then Allah nodding thier head at this courts desicion and going yup she was a witch alright?

She turned me into a newt!

Pretty backward and stupid. Probably some guy was pissed off with his woman so he tried to say "evil woman!".

How do you say "She turned me into a newt!" in Arabic?

Well you couldn't bomb Saudi Arabia back to the stoneage if you tried - they have never left it.

How the hell, in an age of instant worldwide communication and cheap and inexpensive access to the entire planets body of knowledge, DO WE STILL HAVE WITCHCRAFT TRIALS ON THIS PLANET in 2008? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/14/world/main3829929.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3829929
We never claimed Saudis weren't backward...

Ah yes this one, i saw the article before on the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7244579.stm) site.

Pretty backward and stupid. Probably some guy was pissed off with his woman so he tried to say "evil woman!".

To be honest all they need for that total mediaeval ambience would be the Black Death and jousting.

Are you telling me that there are hundreds of thousands of Saudi men who have more money then Allah nodding thier head at this courts desicion and going yup she was a witch alright?

No, I'm saying that it's not surprising. Though the fact you couldn't muster the stamina to read and understand two lines of text is both surprising and horrifying.

She turned me into a newt!
*Crowd, surprised, halts their clamoring and looks*

How the hell, in an age of instant worldwide communication and cheap and inexpensive access to the entire planets body of knowledge, DO WE STILL HAVE WITCHCRAFT TRIALS ON THIS PLANET in 2008? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/14/world/main3829929.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3829929

Well...some people believe in a all-powerful skyfairy and his zombie son.

Theres alot thats just plain silly, and belief in witchcraft is part of that.

Whats more important, is that they're using superstition as evidence to execute a woman.

What surprises me is not so much that people think it's real but rather that it's treated as a crime in its own right. If someone puts a curse on you, you bring them before court for assault and/or actual bodily harm; there should be no need for witchcraft itself to be a legal misdemeanour.

No shortage of places where worshipping the wrong god (or worshipping wrongly) gets you death. Thank you invisible pink pony!

Saudi Government and some sections of the population full of retardation shocker!

I should apply for a job there.;)

Witchcraft is still thought very much real by a large percentage of the world's populace. If this surprises or horrifies you then you've not been paying attention to humanity since.. ever.
What surprises me is not so much that people think it's real but rather that it's treated as a crime in its own right. If someone puts a curse on you, you bring them before court for assault and/or actual bodily harm; there should be no need for witchcraft itself to be a legal misdemeanour.

O.o A Newt???
I got better...

Edit:
Hey...

Asshole much?

Apparently the One Stop Rules Shop (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023) is also too much for you to read.

No, I'm saying that it's not surprising. Though the fact you couldn't muster the stamina to read and understand two lines of text is both surprising and horrifying.

Asshole much?

She turned me into a newt!

O.o A Newt???

muslims are stupid people

they want Germany to go under Sharia law (now beating you wife is legal)
In Saudi Arabia if a Bible is found on you they take it and throw it in the trash right in front of you never mind letting Christians build churchs, even though the Saudi prince is funding HUGE mosques throughout Europe...the list goes on

*Crowd, surprised, halts their clamoring and looks*
O.o A Newt???

Well, I got better.

Apparently the One Stop Rules Shop (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023) is also too much for you to read.
Too much for you to read, either, looks like.

Muslims are not a people. They are a religious cult, just like Christians or Scientologists.

hold on a minute. Are you the same person? It all makes sense now.
Either that or there's a glitch in the matrix. >.> <.<
No, it's you, from the future, paying us a visit. What's it like, five minutes in the future?

It is quite staggeringly stupid, yes. However, I would hold it neither as evidence of Islam at large, nor religion in general.

Muslims are not a people. They are a religious cult, just like Christians or Scientologists.

Islam, much like Christianity, is far too large to be a cult.

I got better...

Well, I got better.

hold on a minute. Are you the same person? It all makes sense now.
Either that or there's a glitch in the matrix. >.> <.<

hold on a minute. Are you the same person? It all makes sense now.
Either that or there's a glitch in the matrix. >.> <.<

She turned me into a Laerod!

Islam, much like Christianity, is far too large to be a cult.

How large does a cult have to be before it's not a cult?

It's pretty clear, one is a kook, or a Californian. Two are two kooks. Is three a cult?

Three hundred thousand no longer a cult?

She turned me into a Laerod!
That pretty much breaks the dialogue right there, cuz you just can't get better than that =P

http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/A111912.htm

2001 trial in Oregon, US. Claims of witchcraft. No, there weren't any muslims involved.

Khadgar, take a close look around. The only person in this thread that is being rude and insulting is you. If you didnt like my off the cuff responce to your attack , then this is your opportunity to correct my behavior. Khadgar, please instruct me in the best way to deal with people who are rude and obnoxious to you for NO reason whatsoever completly out of the blue. After you tell me the solution i will apply it to you ok?

I see, both of you claim superstitious things in your second posts. Most suspicious. Yes i'll have to call the Goofball inquisition to sort you out.

Oh and being 5 minutes in the future is immensly difficult for me to hold conversation, and eating can be a bit tricky to say the least. That's why i always get the damn timewarpsTry going here:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=1227

Maybe you're on a different server.

No, it's you, from the future, paying us a visit. What's it like, five minutes in the future?

She turned me into a Laerod!

I see, both of you claim superstitious things in your second posts. Most suspicious. Yes i'll have to call the Goofball inquisition to sort you out.

Oh and being 5 minutes in the future is immensly difficult for me to hold conversation, and eating can be a bit tricky to say the least. That's why i always get the damn timewarps

I don't believe witchcraft exists, btw I'm Southern Baptist (Protestant Christian)

Oh and being 5 minutes in the future is immensly difficult for me to hold conversation, and eating can be a bit tricky to say the least. That's why i always get the damn timewarps

Im pretty sure time travel make you..... A WITCH!

Im pretty sure time travel make you..... A WITCH!

But does she weight more than a duck?

http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/A111912.htm

2001 trial in Oregon, US. Claims of witchcraft. No, there weren't any muslims involved.

Read your link. Claims of witchcraft... BY A MENTALLY ILL PERSON.

No relation at all to claims of witchcraft directed at a person, by a government prosecutor.

http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/A111912.htm

2001 trial in Oregon, US. Claims of witchcraft. No, there weren't any muslims involved.

Sorry but this case is not about claims of witchcraft, its a court evaluation of a Romanian persons mental health. The issue of witchcraft is merely mentioned and is not a major component of the hearing.

Im pretty sure time travel make you..... A WITCH!
Or a time traveler?
But does she weight more than a duck?
who's "she"?
if you're referring to me, depends on how big the duck is.

is this monty python or a dicussion about witches (well i guess you cant have one without the other).

http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/A111912.htm

2001 trial in Oregon, US. Claims of witchcraft. No, there weren't any muslims involved.

Sorry but this case is not about claims of witchcraft, its a court evaluation of a Romanian persons mental health. The issue of witchcraft is merely mentioned and is not a major component of the hearing.
It's worse than that, claiming that another person is a witch is part of the grounds for determining that the person is mentally unfit. It's the complete opposite of the Saudi case.

Not that I'm buying into this 'See? Da muslims iz ebul!' thing, it's just another case of giving your imaginary friend too much power. It reflects ill on the people doing it, right now the Saudi government and judicial system.

A great argument as to why imaginary friends shouldn't have political power. Note to certain candidates in a certain election in a certain country.

How large does a cult have to be before it's not a cult?
10,000 to get onto the UK census as a proper religion, I believe.

Another thread using a half-baked "evidence" (in this case, an ass-backwards Taliban With Oil Money regime that is Saudi Arabia) as an indictment of all Muslims everywhere.

There's a shocker.

:rolleyes:

How the hell, in an age of instant worldwide communication and cheap and inexpensive access to the entire planets body of knowledge, DO WE STILL HAVE WITCHCRAFT TRIALS ON THIS PLANET in 2008? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/14/world/main3829929.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3829929
Plenty of people also believe that 2000 years ago someone managed to walk on water, too.

It's worse than that, claiming that another person is a witch is part of the grounds for determining that the person is mentally unfit. It's the complete opposite of the Saudi case.


I disagree, the topic of witchcraft was simply part of the narrative of what occured during the witnesses testimony. There is nothing in the finding that says that the courts are using the issue of the witchcraft in any way, pro or con, to reach a conclusion on the patients mental stability.

Another thread using a half-baked "evidence" (in this case, an ass-backwards Taliban With Oil Money regime that is Saudi Arabia) as an indictment of all Muslims everywhere.

There's a shocker.




No, not Muslims everywhere. Just those who don't see this as absolute stupidity.

And I'm sure there are even a few Saudis with the courage to call this one what it is.

May Allah protect them.

Perhaps we should use the method from Blackadder to determine if she's a witch


"An accussed witch has her head placed on a block, and an axe aimed at her neck, if she's a witch the axe will bounce off and then we'll burn her" :eek:

No, not Muslims everywhere. Just those who don't see this as absolute stupidity.

And I'm sure there are even a few Saudis with the courage to call this one what it is.

May Allah protect them.

But as you can see, some of the replies to this thread don't bother with that little detail and use it as yet another soapbox for their "z0mg 3b1l m0sl3mz!!" rant.

How the hell, in an age of instant worldwide communication and cheap and inexpensive access to the entire planets body of knowledge, DO WE STILL HAVE WITCHCRAFT TRIALS ON THIS PLANET in 2008? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/14/world/main3829929.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3829929

Saudi Goverment is retarded, 'nuff said

Yay! America luves demokercy. That why we invaid Irak but R frends with demokratik Saudi Arabia. That why we remove Sadam frum powr, cuz he violate humen rites unliek Bushs Saudi frends.

muslims are stupid people


GAP you should think about what you just said if you want to back it up, then one could say jews are stupid, french people are stupid, and that white people have a desire to become serial killers

Yay! America luves demokercy. That why we invaid Irak but R frends with demokratik Saudi Arabia. That why we remove Sadam frum powr, cuz he violate humen rites unliek Bushs Saudi frends.

U Izlam0fasizt. 0ff to g17m0 wit U now!

Why should witchcraft be illegal, or even wrong, if it existed? If people want to do "magic" or whatever, it's fine by me as long as they don't sacrifice children (or humans, for that matter).

Why should witchcraft be illegal, or even wrong, if it existed? If people want to do "magic" or whatever, it's fine by me as long as they don't sacrifice children (or humans, for that matter).

You're asking the people who wont let women drive to be reasonable?

*shakes head*

Im going out on a limb here because allah if i know the answer but maybe if they actually believed you could whip up a doll and poke it in the eye and therefore blind someone then there presumably needs to be laws from preventing mass extinctions from people buying out supplies from the toy and hobby shops.

You know how fast Dubya Dolls would sell out if that thing really worked?

Why should witchcraft be illegal, or even wrong, if it existed? If people want to do "magic" or whatever, it's fine by me as long as they don't sacrifice children (or humans, for that matter).

Im going out on a limb here because allah if i know the answer but maybe if they actually believed you could whip up a doll and poke it in the eye and therefore blind someone then there presumably needs to be laws from preventing mass extinctions from people buying out supplies from the toy and hobby shops.

Why should witchcraft be illegal, or even wrong, if it existed? If people want to do "magic" or whatever, it's fine by me as long as they don't sacrifice children (or humans, for that matter).

So... what you're saying is that children are less than human? ;)

I don't believe witchcraft exists, btw I'm Southern Baptist (Protestant Christian)

So you're saying the Bible is fallible then?

I think the Saudis need an education.

Another thread using a half-baked "evidence" (in this case, an ass-backwards Taliban With Oil Money regime that is Saudi Arabia) as an indictment of all Muslims everywhere.
That's the home country of the religion.
You can hardly claim that being "ass-backwards" or similar to the Taliban has nothing to do with their being Muslim.

How the hell, in an age of instant worldwide communication and cheap and inexpensive access to the entire planets body of knowledge, DO WE STILL HAVE WITCHCRAFT TRIALS ON THIS PLANET in 2008? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/14/world/main3829929.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3829929

Dunno. Seems to happen quite a lot in Africa though...

That's the home country of the religion.
You can hardly claim that being "ass-backwards" or similar to the Taliban has nothing to do with their being Muslim.

Hopothetical religion was founded in hypotheticalistan, thus the fact that the hypotheticalistan government makes odd decisions is due to the fact that some may be hypotheticalists?

Hopothetical religion was founded in hypotheticalistan, thus the fact that the hypotheticalistan government makes odd decisions is due to the fact that some may be hypotheticalists?
You could ask them what the reasoning for their decisions are. In this case, it is most explicit that the religion is the basis for their odd decisions.

Not really. In nearly every christian country witchcraft was illegal for many years. I'm not saying religion doesn't have a part in it, but it is culture, not just religion, that decides it.

In nearly every christian country witchcraft was illegal for many years.
For purely religious reasons.
Christianity has grown out of some (though far from all) of its primitive barbarities. Islam lags considerably.

Islam is 1300 years old. Christianity is 2000. Christianity 700 years ago was a damn sight worse than islam is now.

Im pretty sure time travel make you..... A WITCH!

Or a Time Lord. Check Jolt for an old fashioned British police box.

Oh? OK, quick quizz then.

http://www.hydroturfinternational.com/images/riyadh1.jpg
The above vehicles are made out of what kind of materials?

1. Animal hides, bone, sticks and stones.
2. Plastics and metals.

*jumps up and down, hand in the air*

Ooh! Ooh! I know! Its 1... no, 2, no wait, 1. Yes 1! Am I right?

*waits for cookie*

Curse you timewarp!

To me, it looks like old fashioned sexism and misogyny. I think this woman pissed off someone powerful and he got her charged with witchcraft. Witchcraft is ideal in this regard as it impossible to defend yourself. And prosecution is easy if you find enough witnesses.

Interestingly enough, a belief in witchcraft or any religion isn't even required.

Well you couldn't bomb Saudi Arabia back to the stoneage if you tried - they have never left it.

Oh? OK, quick quizz then.

http://www.hydroturfinternational.com/images/riyadh1.jpg
The above vehicles are made out of what kind of materials?

1. Animal hides, bone, sticks and stones.
2. Plastics and metals.

That's the home country of the religion.
You can hardly claim that being "ass-backwards" or similar to the Taliban has nothing to do with their being Muslim.

Wide brush there, Hoss...

Well you couldn't bomb Saudi Arabia back to the stoneage if you tried - they have never left it.

Oh, the sweet smell of ignorance :)

To be honest all they need for that total mediaeval ambience would be the Black Death and jousting.

At least there is some honor in jousting.

If there were a Black Death, they would probably go and blame the Jews.

Oh? OK, quick quizz then.

http://www.hydroturfinternational.com/images/riyadh1.jpg
The above vehicles are made out of what kind of materials?

1. Animal hides, bone, sticks and stones.
2. Plastics and metals.
Err...

...don't tell....


PIES!!1!!1

Oh? OK, quick quizz then.

The above vehicles are made out of what kind of materials?

1. Animal hides, bone, sticks and stones.
2. Plastics and metals.

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Oh Saudi Arabia... always providing something to sigh in sadness at the ability of people to be such thickheaded asses. They're executing a woman basically because some cockwad became impotent and needed someone to blame, it seems. And of course, the way SA's "justice" system works, the poor woman has no way to prove herself innocent and her word counts for nothing because she has a vagina, not a penis.

Sometimes I wish that the women in Saudi Arabia would/could rise up and slaughter the fundamentalist misogynist segment of the population. I really should avoid these threads; being this angry is probably not good for me.

muslims are stupid people

they want Germany to go under Sharia law (now beating you wife is legal)
In Saudi Arabia if a Bible is found on you they take it and throw it in the trash right in front of you never mind letting Christians build churchs, even though the Saudi prince is funding HUGE mosques throughout Europe...the list goes on

You do realize most Muslims actively dislike what the Saudis do, right? And pray show me ANYWHERE in the German legal system that claims it's legal to beat up one's wife.

Or could it be that you're simply full of sh*t?

You do realize most Muslims actively dislike what the Saudis do, right?

Is this really true? I thought that most Muslims held the Saudi system in reasonably high regard. Im not sure why i thought this but do most other Muslim nations really frown on the Saudi version of Islam?

You could ask them what the reasoning for their decisions are. In this case, it is most explicit that the religion is the basis for their odd decisions.

No, it's most explicit that the INTERPRETATION of the religion is the basis. Unless you're claiming Fred Phelps to be a true Christian.

Is this really true? I thought that most Muslims held the Saudi system in reasonably high regard. Im not sure why i thought this but do most other Muslim nations really frown on the Saudi version of Islam?

Most Muslim PEOPLE are Sunni and dislike Shia in general and the Shia Wahabbi sect, which is the Saudi one, in particular.

Is this really true? I thought that most Muslims held the Saudi system in reasonably high regard. Im not sure why i thought this but do most other Muslim nations really frown on the Saudi version of Islam?

Personal anecdotes aren't great evidence, I admit, but I've never met a Muslim living in the West that doesn't get actively angry at the Saudi interpretation of Islamic law.

She turned me into a newt!


I got better.

The Saudi Arabian legal system is as usual full of fun and games :)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3321637.ece

Wow, that's an extreme response. Just to sitting next to a man.

EDIT:arrr timewarp

The Saudi Arabian legal system is as usual full of fun and games :)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3321637.ece

I frankly believe that the only reason some countries with majorities that are ACTUALLY Muslim aren't at war with the Dystopia of Saudi Arabia right now is fear of hitting Mecca.

The Saudi Arabian legal system is as usual full of fun and games :)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3321637.ece

No, it's most explicit that the INTERPRETATION of the religion is the basis. Unless you're claiming Fred Phelps to be a true Christian.

Of course he is.

Of course he is.

He is? Wow, you'd better run to the Vatican and tell the Pope that he's got it wrong then. While you're at it, you can tell the same to the Orthodox Pope, and to the leaders of every Christian sect in North America and elsewhere.

Too long to be sigged... :(
I will extend you a high-five, though. *high five*

You can sig the link.

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Too long to be sigged... :(
I will extend you a high-five, though. *high five*

/Obligatory Harry Potter reference.

To be honest all they need for that total mediaeval ambience would be the Black Death and jousting.

To be honest, witch trials were still carried on well after the Middle Ages.

He is? Wow, you'd better run to the Vatican and tell the Pope that he's got it wrong then. While you're at it, you can tell the same to the Orthodox Pope, and to the leaders of every Christian sect in North America and elsewhere.
They're all Christians too. As an outsider, I have no dog in the "no true Scotsman" fight about which subvariety of Christianity is "real" Christianity.

300 years ago, you would not have found any Christians anywhere who did not agree with Phelps, and the Christian governments burned us alive or castrated us, on explicitly religious grounds. It will not do to pretend that Christianity has nothing to do with why Phelps thinks as he does. Fortunately, he is a fringe subvariety of Christian nowadays. The Saudi version of Islam, however, controls a government, which makes it an important subvariety, and moreover it is in continuity with the interpretations of Islam that have been practiced in Arabia ever since there was any such thing as Islam: it is the home of the religion, after all.

"the Shia Wahabbi sect, which is the Saudi one, in particular" is a particularly gross example of ignorance: Wahhabis are Sunni, of course, and despise Shi'a.

"the Shia Wahabbi sect, which is the Saudi one, in particular" is a particularly gross example of ignorance: Wahhabis are Sunni, of course, and despise Shi'a.

Duly noted. Most Muslims DO despise wahabbis though.

Duly noted. Most Muslims DO despise wahabbis though.

Agreed. Hell, most people in general despise them.

Duly noted. Most Muslims DO despise wahabbis though.
Yes, that's as may be, but trying to pretend it has nothing to do with Islam is a little silly, don't you think? It is a survival of medieval Islam in a rather pure form, and Muslims are embarrassed by it, just like a lot of Christians get embarrassed by medieval-throwbacks within their own religion.

This is what happens when a government doesn't educate their populace with anything but a document that is about 1500 years old and propaganda.

Exactly.

Hell, witchcraft is still punishable by death in the Central African Republic, and "witches" (even children) are regularly killed in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

And we have our own "witches" here in the states...

Muslims are not a people. They are members of the religion of Islam.

Anyway, witchcraft was still a crime in England until the 50s, 60s, or 80s. I forget.

That statement that "Witchcraft doesn't exist" is just a theory. You can make many good arguments for the truth of witchcraft. I believe these arguments should be taught at schools alongside those that try to disprove witches.

Islam is 1300 years old. Christianity is 2000. Christianity 700 years ago was a damn sight worse than islam is now.

What does the age of a religion have to do with the teachings it promotes?

Muslims are not a people. They are members of the religion of Islam.

Anyway, witchcraft was still a crime in England until the 50s, 60s, or 80s. I forget.

They didn't kill people for it though. There are a lot of old weird laws on the books everywhere that there have been laws for a long period of time.

Why not? I seem to recall the Christians did the same thing when the Black death was sweeping Europe.

Blame the Jews seems to be an extraordinarily popular choice. What the hell pisses people off at them so much?

They were pretty much the only universal minority in all of Europe at the time, and so they "weree teh onli ppls ebil enouh and capablie enouh to killz uz all! zOMG!" in that they were everywhere and so were "able" to "bring the plauge to all of these places"

At least there is some honor in jousting.

If there were a Black Death, they would probably go and blame the Jews.

Why not? I seem to recall the Christians did the same thing when the Black death was sweeping Europe.

Blame the Jews seems to be an extraordinarily popular choice. What the hell pisses people off at them so much?

Too long to be sigged... :(
I will extend you a high-five, though. *high five*

You could abridge it and link to it. ;)

Why not? I seem to recall the Christians did the same thing when the Black death was sweeping Europe.

Blame the Jews seems to be an extraordinarily popular choice. What the hell pisses people off at them so much?

The fact that they historically were blamed for the death of Christ. I dont know why Muslims hate them aside from the Israel thing. During the Crusades the arabs protected the Jews from the Crusders ironically.

The fact that they historically were blamed for the death of Christ. I dont know why Muslims hate them aside from the Israel thing. During the Crusades the arabs protected the Jews from the Crusders ironically.

Why is that ironic?

Because now the Christians are protecing the jews from the muslims,

A bunch of Muslims sheltered Jews from the Nazi regime as well. There was a book written on the matter but I forgot the title.

Why is that ironic?



Because now the Christians are protecing the jews from the muslims,

I would say it's ironic that Christians are protecting Jews.

They're paying us a lot.

I would say it's ironic that Christians are protecting Jews.

I think this whole situation is full of irony:)

Because now the Christians are protecing the jews from the muslims,

I would say it's ironic that Christians are protecting Jews.

I think this whole situation is full of irony:)

Agreed.

What does the age of a religion have to do with the teachings it promotes?

Over time I think that an (abrahamic) religion becomes more moderate. Seeing as christiantiy and islam have many similarities, I don't think that is completely wrong to look what teachings christianity was giving 700 years ago, namely go to the east and kill people, then yo'll go to heaven. By contrast, Islam is a very mature religion, in that only a small percentage of its populace beleive that.

What does the age of a religion have to do with the teachings it promotes?

You could say that Christianity has mellowed and matured slightly since 1300. In that it's not longer burning witches at the stake.

They're all Christians too. As an outsider, I have no dog in the "no true Scotsman" fight about which subvariety of Christianity is "real" Christianity.

Well now, it seems to me that "no true Scotsman isn't always inaccurate. For example, no true dog has wings.

It seems reasonable to say that no true Christian would encourage people to behave contrary to the teachings of their Christ.

/Obligatory Harry Potter reference.

That statement that "Witchcraft doesn't exist" is just a theory. You can make many good arguments for the truth of witchcraft. I believe these arguments should be taught at schools alongside those that try to disprove witches.

LOL!

Saudi Arabia = epic fail. I'm not sure if any other country fails as badly.

That statement that "Witchcraft doesn't exist" is just a theory. You can make many good arguments for the truth of witchcraft. I believe these arguments should be taught at schools alongside those that try to disprove witches.

Yeah, I for one want transfiguration, Charms and Defense against the Dark Arts taught alongside Science, Maths and English;)

Most Muslim PEOPLE are Sunni and dislike Shia in general and the Shia Wahabbi sect, which is the Saudi one, in particular.

The Wahabbi is not Shi'a...
They are fundementalist Sunnis....

Well now, it seems to me that "no true Scotsman isn't always inaccurate. For example, no true dog has wings.

It seems reasonable to say that no true Christian would encourage people to behave contrary to the teachings of their Christ.

It's only a No True Scotsman if it's something that doesn't figure into what a Scotsman actually is.

Err.. Don't see the post that corrected it... Sorry for my nonsensical spamming by saying Wahabbi is Sunnis, as that has been corrected somewhere...

And SA was not extreme enough... See the Wahabbi's laws... See that, and prepared to be SHOCKED!!!

One of the propaganda that have come to English (I saw it at the BBC in YouTube!)

My Brother, it will come a time when we all will honourably slaughter the infidels, the kuffar! We shall liberate this fine place from those pitiful kuffar (that means YOU!! )

Just for a big of trivia, did you know that the Wahabbi's invented the 'religious police' concept that inspired the Taliban?

It's only a No True Scotsman if it's something that doesn't figure into what a Scotsman actually is.

In that case my Christian example holds doubly true and it isn't a no true Scotsman fight. Or it might be that it's six in the morning and I've been unable to sleep at all.

witchcraft was still a crime in England until the 50s, 60s, or 80s. I forget.

Most old English laws were repealed 16 May 1983

The first Act of Parliament directed specifically against witchcraft was the act De hæretico comburendo, passed in 1401

This statute was replaced in1735. a person who pretended to have the power to call up spirits, or foretell the future, or cast spells was to be punished as a vagrant and a con artist.

Blatantly stolen from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft_Act

582 years before it finally came off the books, Probably a 'Oh my god :eek:, is that still in force?' moment from lawmakers.

I'm not particularly surprised, actually.

Typical behavior in Saudi Barbaria.

God speed the day when their oil is no longer needed and they can go back to living in conditions more fitting with their behavior.

Yes, that's as may be, but trying to pretend it has nothing to do with Islam is a little silly, don't you think? It is a survival of medieval Islam in a rather pure form, and Muslims are embarrassed by it, just like a lot of Christians get embarrassed by medieval-throwbacks within their own religion.

The Wahabbi is not Shi'a...
They are fundementalist Sunnis....

It isn't even a survival of Medieval Islam. Wahhab was heavily influenced by Taymiyya from what I understand, a Medieval Islamic philosopher that never gained much steam because his views were so out of whack with the mainstream populace and body-politic. Wahhabism only exists today because it's able to be forced onto people, it's a failed interpretation based on a previously failed interpretation of Islam. It's just...odd. It's a philosophical dodo but it doesn't have the good grace to become extinct (Wahhabism, that is, not Islam).

Dunno. Seems to happen quite a lot in Africa though...

Also in large parts of rural India, Malaysia, Indonesia etc. I suspect with China too...what with their fascination with spirits.

The Qur'an speaks about Djinns (Genie is from that I think) a lot. This plus local traditions means muslims will be having such beliefs. There is nothing that differentiates muslims per se in this. I have seen stupidest superstitious stuff from Hindus that you will LYAO.

The problem is the recognition given to this stuff from higher people (scientists, judges etc). Mr. Bashiruddin Mahmood, a 'scientist' from Pakistan, famously suggested to capture Jinns and extract power from them to solve Pakistan's energy problem.

What does the age of a religion have to do with the teachings it promotes?

You're right. Christianity is still barbaric despite being 2,000 years old. Look at how it treats anyone who doesn't toe the line of moral 'decency'. The teachings it promotes has seen mass amounts of bigotry and discrimination occur. Oh wait you wanted people to think of Islam? Too bad.

The problem is the recognition given to this stuff from higher people (scientists, judges etc). Mr. Bashiruddin Mahmood, a 'scientist' from Pakistan, famously suggested to capture Jinns and extract power from them to solve Pakistan's energy problem.He needs to watch Wishmaster. It'll show him just how bad that idea is.

He needs to watch Wishmaster. It'll show him just how bad that idea is.

http://www.chowk.com/articles/11476
Save our Children from Mental Abuse
At present there are numerous – and counting -- pseudo scientific junk programs on TV: There is this Deepak-Chopra-clone fellow quack called Moiz Hussain on Hum TV talking about Reike being able to reprogram DNA among other things, a science and Islam show on QTV (featuring Mr. Bashiruddin Mahmood infamous for trying to capture Jinns and harness their power to solve our energy needs), numerous astrology segments, a recent makaan ko chor kar lamakaan ke tarf show on PTV talking about feng shui and whole lot of other nonsense. Topping the list, leader by a long margin, is Harun Yahya and his documentaries against evolution and all things rational shown on Indus TV (during Ramadan excerpts from these were included in Indus Chotu). Learning that Mr. Yahya (actually Mr. Adnan Oktar; “Harun Yahya” being his pseudonym) has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia therefore comes as no surprise. This madness is being passed on to innocent children and what is worse, is that it’s passed off as science!

Read the link for more laughs. :D

For example, no true dog has wings.
.

Yet.

Give Genetic Engineering some time to develop.

http://www.chowk.com/articles/11476
Save our Children from Mental Abuse


Read the link for more laughs. :DOh, god... that made me want to cry... :(

You do realize most Muslims actively dislike what the Saudis do, right?

Yes, it's quite extraordinary how many Muslims will turn out to protest some abominable abuse of Islam by the Saudi government, in contrast to the few who get bent out of shape when someone draws a Mohammed cartoon.

Can anyone tell me where the protest will be held? I'd like to attend along with the tens of thousands of Muslims whom I am certain will show up to voice their displeasure at the vile twisting of their religion.

* EDITED FOR MY OWN PURPOSES - Kryo*

Can anyone tell me where the protest will be held? I'd like to attend along with the tens of thousands of Christians whom I am certain will show up to voice their displeasure at the vile twisting of their religion.

There, fixed. It makes the same point.

There, fixed. It makes the same point.

What point? There are protests against Christian theocracies all the time.

Even against Christian-aligned governments and their policies.

You want a list of gay rights protests? You don't believe they exist? Even Russia is going to have one this year. And there is a LOT of protest against Christian anti-science efforts, ie, evolution, stem cell research, etc- just individually and not in mobs, because science doesn't thrill people like politics does. Let's face it, any local equivalent to Richard Dawkins (Nobel prize be upon him) would be dead in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or any other Islamic regime. And in the west, EVERY execution is accompanied by protest. Civil liberties aren't just for witches. EVERY execution in the USA in 2008, I garantee you, will have some public protest with it.

Back to you Kryozerkia. If you believe its all the same, find us the Muslim equivalent- a Muslim population protesting an "Islamic" regime's use of their religion.

Find one.

In that case my Christian example holds doubly true and it isn't a no true Scotsman fight. Or it might be that it's six in the morning and I've been unable to sleep at all.

Not really. No good Christian would encourage someone to behave contrary to the teachings of Christ, but a bad one might. See: Fred Phelps.

What point? There are protests against Christian theocracies all the time.

Even against Christian-aligned governments and their policies.

You want a list of gay rights protests? You don't believe they exist? Even Russia is going to have one this year. And there is a LOT of protest against Christian anti-science efforts, ie, evolution, stem cell research, etc- just individually and not in mobs, because science doesn't thrill people like politics does. Let's face it, any local equivalent to Richard Dawkins (Nobel prize be upon him) would be dead in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or any other Islamic regime. And in the west, EVERY execution is accompanied by protest. Civil liberties aren't just for witches. EVERY execution in the USA in 2008, I garantee you, will have some public protest with it.

Back to you Kryozerkia. If you believe its all the same, find us the Muslim equivalent- a Muslim population protesting an "Islamic" regime's use of their religion.

Find one.

I never said I believed it. You're putting words in my mouth.

I'm just showing that Christianity can be unreasonable, as can any other religion.

Besides, I know Islam doesn't have those protests. I'm just saying that there is a lot of compliance within Christianity.

Every execution is protested? What of the executions done to people behind bars? In death, some have been proven innocent but they were deemed guilty in life. Did a protest occur for every one of these executions?

Do people themselves living in these Christian theocracies protest their government the way that those of us living in mostly secular nations do?

Where are the protests by Christians in America to ensure that everyone has the same civil liberties? When was the last time a group of Christians petitioned to have homosexual marriage and abortion legalised?

You could say that Christianity has mellowed and matured slightly since 1300. In that it's not longer burning witches at the stake.

But why has it mellowed out? The Renaissance and the Reformation challenged the commonly held views of the medieval church. Christianity has mellowed out because the world became more and more scientific. Why hasnt Islam mellowed out in the face of the same world changes that has mellowed out christianity, since they are still putting people on trial for witchcraft?

Well now, it seems to me that "no true Scotsman isn't always inaccurate. For example, no true dog has wings.

It seems reasonable to say that no true Christian would encourage people to behave contrary to the teachings of their Christ.
Phelps is behaving in accord with the teachings of Christ, according to him. Most Christians today, of course, have a different understanding of what Christ taught; but most Christians throughout history agreed with Phelps. As an outsider, I have no stake in deciphering what is or is not the correct interpretation: he is deriving his beliefs by interpreting what he thinks "Christ" taught, so he's a "Christian", if no longer (thank God) a typical one; if he was deriving his beliefs by interpreting what he thought the Qur'an taught, he would be a "Muslim" (and not a particularly atypical one).

Well now, it seems to me that "no true Scotsman isn't always inaccurate. For example, no true dog has wings.

It seems reasonable to say that no true Christian would encourage people to behave contrary to the teachings of their Christ.



Thats the problem though. Fundies actually do have a theological arguement, because the bible is so contradictory that both sides can pull from it.