NationStates Jolt Archive

Here we go again:

US Marine accused of rape in Japan
By CHISAKI WATANABE, Associated Press Writer 57 minutes ago

A U.S. Marine accused of raping a 14-year-old girl in southern Japan was arrested Monday, police said, stirring memories of a rape of a Japanese girl by U.S. troops over a decade ago.

Police took custody of Staff Sgt. Tyrone Luther Hadnott, 38, of Camp Courtney in Okinawa, an Okinawa police official said on condition of anonymity citing policy. Hadnott, who has denied the allegations, has not been charged.

Under a mutual security pact, the United States has about 50,000 troops deployed around Japan. Most of them are based on Okinawa and tensions over potential accidents, land use and troop-related crimes are common.

In 1995, the rape of a schoolgirl in Okinawa by three American servicemen sparked large-scale protests. The three served prison terms of six and a half to seven years.

"This is extremely regrettable," said Japanese Foreign Minister Masahiko Komura of Monday's arrest. Komura said the government asked Washington to tighten discipline among its troop based in Japan to prevent such crimes in the future. Tokyo has made similar requests in the past.

Hadnott, whose hometown has not been identified, is alleged to have offered to take the girl to her home on his motorbike on Sunday, but instead took her to his house, another local police official told The Associated Press.

When the girl started crying, he said he would drive her home, but he is accused of then raping her in a car, the official said, also speaking on condition of anonymity in line with policy.

Hadnott told investigators he forced the girl down and kissed her, but that he did not rape her, the official said.

Lt. Gen. Bruce Wright, commander of U.S. Forces in Japan, said the U.S. was aware of the "serious allegations in Okinawa."

"(We) are closely monitoring the situation while fully cooperating with Japanese officials," Wright said in a statement. "If the allegations are true, our hearts are with the victim and family."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080211/ap_on_re_as/japan_marine_arrested

I really like the part where he said he forced the girl down and kissed her, but didn't rape her, as if that would excuse the matter.

Okinawans are PISSED right now and rightly so. Even worse, it's this type of action that casts a very bad pall not just on US military personnel stationed in Japan, but Americans and foreigners living in Japan in general.

I really like the part where he said he forced the girl down and kissed her, but didn't rape her, as if that would excuse the matter.Nah, but rape probably carries a stiffer sentence than sexual assault or harassment, does it not?

Here we go again:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080211/ap_on_re_as/japan_marine_arrested

I really like the part where he said he forced the girl down and kissed her, but didn't rape her, as if that would excuse the matter.

Okinawans are PISSED right now and rightly so. Even worse, it's this type of action that casts a very bad pall not just on US military personnel stationed in Japan, but Americans and foreigners living in Japan in general.

Indeed, indeed. I woke up to this and a case of tonsillitis. Not a good way to start the day. (>.<)

God knows why they haven't kicked US forces out already....

You know, something has to be done about this. Clearly marines and schoolgirl uniforms don't mix. Maybe it's time for gay Marines. :p

Nah, but rape probably carries a stiffer sentence than sexual assault or harassment, does it not?
In Japan... actually it might not. Japan's rape laws are not exactly weighted towards the victims, this being the same country where when a university club that regularly ganged raped women as a club event was laughed off by members of the Cabinet as men showing off their youthful vitality.

That's good. When the Japanese know that the USA's military is their daughters' natural ally, they'll very support the banishment of the USA bases in Pasific. Then their cursed empire will have nothing at our area! :D

Indeed, indeed. I woke up to this and a case of tonsillitis. Not a good way to start the day. (>.<)
Nope, but your case of tonsillitis will get better quickly (Hopefully) than this will blow over.

God knows why they haven't kicked US forces out already....

Some have been trying since the '50s.

You know, something has to be done about this. Clearly marines and schoolgirl uniforms don't mix. Maybe it's time for gay Marines. :p

LOL Best argument evah!

In Japan... actually it might not. Japan's rape laws are not exactly weighted towards the victims, this being the same country where when a university club that regularly ganged raped women as a club event was laughed off by members of the Cabinet as men showing off their youthful vitality.

I remember back in the '95 case when the US military prosecuter said the 3 guys who raped a 12 year old were lucky to be sent to Japanese prison.

Nope, but your case of tonsillitis will get better quickly (Hopefully) than this will blow over.

Indeed. My last serious throat infection took almost a month...

You know, something has to be done about this. Clearly marines and schoolgirl uniforms don't mix. Maybe it's time for gay Marines. :p

So then it would be the schoolboys at risk, instead... :p

So then it would be the schoolboys at risk, instead... :p

Schoolboy uniforms aren't so hot. Besides, eveybody know what gay marines want; Other marines.

So at best, they won't rape anybody because trying to rape a marine is a rather unacceptable risk. At worst, they'll only rape eachother. For the Okinawans, the schoolgirls and their snazzy uniforms, it's win-win. :)

Schoolboy uniforms aren't so hot. Besides, eveybody know what gay marines want; Other marines.

So at best, they won't rape anybody because trying to rape a marine is a rather unacceptable risk. At worst, they'll only rape eachother. For the Okinawans, the schoolgirls and their snazzy uniforms, it's win-win. :)

Anyone who's seen the trad. Japanese schoolboy uniforms knows they're hot - hot and sweaty... (Seriously.)

This is why:

ARTICLE 9. Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. (2) In order to accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

Japan maintains its own defense force. It has a nice set of advanced US fighter planes.

You know, something has to be done about this. Clearly marines and schoolgirl uniforms don't mix. Maybe it's time for gay Marines. :p

Darling it would be Fabulous! :p

God knows why they haven't kicked US forces out already....

This is why:

ARTICLE 9. Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. (2) In order to accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

and this:

MOFA
Article VI:
For the purpose of contributing to the security of Japan and the maintenance of international peace and security in the Far East, the United States of America is granted the use by its land, air and naval forces of facilities and areas in Japan. The use of these facilities and areas as well as the status of United States armed forces in Japan shall be governed by a separate agreement, replacing the Administrative Agreement under Article III of the Security Treaty between Japan and the United States of America, signed at Tokyo on February 28, 1952, as amended, and by such other arrangements as may be agreed upon.

Article X:
This Treaty shall remain in force until in the opinion of the Governments of Japan and the United States of America there shall have come into force such United Nations arrangements as will satisfactorily provide for the maintenance of international peace and security in the Japan area. However, after the Treaty has been in force for ten years, either Party may give notice to the other Party of its intention to terminate the Treaty, in which case the Treaty shall terminate one year after such notice has been given.

You know, something has to be done about this. Clearly marines and schoolgirl uniforms don't mix. Maybe it's time for gay Marines. :p

Afaik, Japanese schoolBOYS wear uniforms, too. :D

Afaik, Japanese schoolBOYS wear uniforms, too. :D

Eh, Japanese guys have a rather glaring shortcoming. Plus they look like kids up into their 30s from what I've seen, which is fucking creepy.

Built marine vs "short" kid-like japanese guy, there's a dilemma.

Afaik, Japanese schoolBOYS wear uniforms, too. :D

like this, lol ^_<

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZgVWc9OZVnM

In Japan... actually it might not. Japan's rape laws are not exactly weighted towards the victims, this being the same country where when a university club that regularly ganged raped women as a club event was laughed off by members of the Cabinet as men showing off their youthful vitality.

Can someone find a link. I need to be pissed off by this.

This is why:

ARTICLE 9. Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. (2) In order to accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

and this:

MOFA
Article VI:
For the purpose of contributing to the security of Japan and the maintenance of international peace and security in the Far East, the United States of America is granted the use by its land, air and naval forces of facilities and areas in Japan. The use of these facilities and areas as well as the status of United States armed forces in Japan shall be governed by a separate agreement, replacing the Administrative Agreement under Article III of the Security Treaty between Japan and the United States of America, signed at Tokyo on February 28, 1952, as amended, and by such other arrangements as may be agreed upon.

Article X:
This Treaty shall remain in force until in the opinion of the Governments of Japan and the United States of America there shall have come into force such United Nations arrangements as will satisfactorily provide for the maintenance of international peace and security in the Japan area. However, after the Treaty has been in force for ten years, either Party may give notice to the other Party of its intention to terminate the Treaty, in which case the Treaty shall terminate one year after such notice has been given.

So the Japanese could have terminated the arrangement unilaterally at any date from 1962 onwards?

like this, lol ^_<

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZgVWc9OZVnM

That was sooooo gay.
And this one is even worse!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi08A4I1q4Q

Of course I blame the culture, ideology, and sociology of the Marine Corps for this, much as I blame the culture, ideology, and sociology of Islam for beheadings, honor killings and terror attacks. Always best to ignore the individual perpetrator, and target the entire group, right? You get more rage up that way, and lord knows, that's something we need more of.

You know, something has to be done about this. Clearly marines and schoolgirl uniforms don't mix. Maybe it's time for gay Marines. :p

That would probably just change the story to a 14 year old boy instead * nods *


Edit: St Edmund beat me to it :(

Of course I blame the culture, ideology, and sociology of the Marine Corps for this, much as I blame the culture, ideology, and sociology of Islam for beheadings, honor killings and terror attacks. Always best to ignore the individual perpetrator, and target the entire group, right? You get more rage up that way, and lord knows, that's something we need more of.

I think perhaps the outrage here would stem from the fact that they are supposed to be protectors, defenders, and the 'best of the best' of American citizenry. That even one of them would commit such a heinous crime, particularly well stationed in another country, reflects incredibly poorly on America as a whole.

Eh, Japanese guys have a rather glaring shortcoming. Plus they look like kids up into their 30s from what I've seen, which is fucking creepy.


Maybe we can import Japanese men in their 20s to help keep pedophiles from going after real kids. You know, like a methadone clinic.

That was sooooo gay.
And this one is even worse!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi08A4I1q4Q

The Host Club members aren't gay...in fact, they're all after Haruhi in some form (Haruhi's the one w/ short hair that looks like a guy but is actually a girl).

I love that show, ^_; [sniff]

Can someone find a link. I need to be pissed off by this.

RE: Japanese Super Free Club

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/04/1057179159324.html

This is why:

ARTICLE 9. Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. (2) In order to accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

and this:

MOFA
Article VI:
For the purpose of contributing to the security of Japan and the maintenance of international peace and security in the Far East, the United States of America is granted the use by its land, air and naval forces of facilities and areas in Japan. The use of these facilities and areas as well as the status of United States armed forces in Japan shall be governed by a separate agreement, replacing the Administrative Agreement under Article III of the Security Treaty between Japan and the United States of America, signed at Tokyo on February 28, 1952, as amended, and by such other arrangements as may be agreed upon.

Article X:
This Treaty shall remain in force until in the opinion of the Governments of Japan and the United States of America there shall have come into force such United Nations arrangements as will satisfactorily provide for the maintenance of international peace and security in the Japan area. However, after the Treaty has been in force for ten years, either Party may give notice to the other Party of its intention to terminate the Treaty, in which case the Treaty shall terminate one year after such notice has been given.

Oddly enough, IMHO, and that of a fair number of Japanese, the treaty and the Japanese military that the US all but stuffed down the Japanese government's throat back in the '50s, violate Article 9.

Eh, Japanese guys have a rather glaring shortcoming. Plus they look like kids up into their 30s from what I've seen, which is fucking creepy.

Built marine vs "short" kid-like japanese guy, there's a dilemma.

YMMV. That being said, I know a fair number of western gay men for whom Japan is akin to the candy store that a number of straight men find it to be, sexually speaking....

i hate to say this, but the japanese schoolgirl uniforms are hot!!!!!!!!!!!
and also i have not seen an ugly japanese girl!!!!!!!! ever!!!!!!!!!!!!, seriously WHAT THE FUCK>?????????????

I think perhaps the outrage here would stem from the fact that they are supposed to be protectors, defenders, and the 'best of the best' of American citizenry. That even one of them would commit such a heinous crime, particularly well stationed in another country, reflects incredibly poorly on America as a whole.Wow. People have a screwed up image of the military.

Wow. People have a screwed up image of the military.

How so?

Of course I blame the culture, ideology, and sociology of the Marine Corps for this, much as I blame the culture, ideology, and sociology of Islam for beheadings, honor killings and terror attacks.

You blame the sociology of a religion, an abstract idea?

Weird.

Of course I blame the culture, ideology, and sociology of the Marine Corps for this...

Do you know anything about the Marine Corps?

If guilty, I hope he is severely punished.

I always thought those navy-guys were gay...

I always thought those navy-guys were gay...

SOme are. Others are just incorrigibly horny(which I respect). :p

I always thought those navy-guys were gay...

They are ;), this is about the Marines.

Do you know anything about the Marine Corps?

He's being sarcastic.

I, however, would like to point out that it's not a stretch an institution whose function is to violate countries (and this is the function of any army, navy or, in short, military that strikes first) to see its members violating people.

I always thought those navy-guys were gay...

Oy I hope that was a joke, never mix up Navy and Marines. Actually don't mix up the branches at all.

Maybe we should send those Marine guys some pudding. It might make them calm down. (However I don't know how pie affects hornyness.)

He's being sarcastic.

I, however, would like to point out that it's not a stretch an institution whose function is to violate countries (and this is the function of any army, navy or, in short, military that strikes first) to see its members violating people.
Oh who's painting who with a broad brush now?

A military organization depends on discipline and that includes respect for the laws of the host nation.

At least we don't have the CMC advocating that Marines be entitled to rape as the spoils of victory, or other such nonsense.

I, however, would like to point out that it's not a stretch an institution whose function is to violate countries (and this is the function of any army, navy or, in short, military that strikes first) to see its members violating people.

That's your failing

Im suprised no one has yet said she deserved it because of her slutty slutty skirt...:headbang:

But she HAS to wear it....

But she HAS to wear it....

I don't see how that would have any effect on the morons who would make that statement in the first place

Im suprised no one has yet said she deserved it because of her slutty slutty skirt...:headbang:

Oh who's painting who with a broad brush now?

A military organization depends on discipline and that includes respect for the laws of the host nation.

At least we don't have the CMC advocating that Marines be entitled to rape as the spoils of victory, or other such nonsense.

Your country made a claim of entitlement to the "preemptive" invasion of others pretty recently. Does the ideology not match between an invasion and a rape? Is a rape not an invasion, by force and with violence?

I don't see how that would have any effect on the morons who would make that statement in the first place



Exactly.

i hate to say this, but the japanese schoolgirl uniforms are hot!!!!!!!!!!!
Some of them, yes.
and also i have not seen an ugly japanese girl!!!!!!!! ever!!!!!!!!!!!!, seriously WHAT THE FUCK>?????????????
You're not looking very hard, then :p

Your country made a claim of entitlement to the "preemptive" invasion of others pretty recently. Does the ideology not match between an invasion and a rape? Is a rape not an invasion, by force and with violence?
Irrelevant to this situation.

Irrelevant to this situation.

Maybe.

I would like to see if the average number of rapes per year increased or decreased between 2003 and now, though...

Maybe.

I would like to see if the average number of rapes per year increased or decreased between 2003 and now, though...
Probably more due to stressed out Marines.

Here we go again:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080211/ap_on_re_as/japan_marine_arrested

I really like the part where he said he forced the girl down and kissed her, but didn't rape her, as if that would excuse the matter.

Okinawans are PISSED right now and rightly so. Even worse, it's this type of action that casts a very bad pall not just on US military personnel stationed in Japan, but Americans and foreigners living in Japan in general.

This is what happens when you put under-educated people from less-than-well-off backgrounds into an environment where they're taught to hate. Animosity breeds like a virus and you've put a gun in this people's hands, and they're filled with anger...

Probably more due to stressed out Marines.

Okay, the number of rapes in OTHER places...

Okay, the number of rapes in OTHER places...
They're the same Marines, you know...

Maybe.

I would like to see if the average number of rapes per year increased or decreased between 2003 and now, though...
I would bet the Okinawa prefecture has an online database for just that sort of thing.

It may well be in Japanese, though that shouldn't be a hindrance to someone so well educated as yourself.

I would bet the Okinawa prefecture has an online database for just that sort of thing.

It may well be in Japanese, though that shouldn't be a hindrance to someone so well educated as yourself.

I am well-educated, but that does not make me fully familiar with Japanese.

NERVUN, though, might help...

This is what happens when you put under-educated people from less-than-well-off backgrounds into an environment where they're taught to hate. Animosity breeds like a virus and you've put a gun in this people's hands, and they're filled with anger...


Talk about an under-educated opinion...

God knows why they haven't kicked US forces out already....

Because China and Russia and Java-Minang's beloved crazy luluboomers are close by.

This is what happens when you put under-educated people from less-than-well-off backgrounds into an environment where they're taught to hate. Animosity breeds like a virus and you've put a gun in this people's hands, and they're filled with anger...

:confused:

I don't think I explained myself properly.

I just think that perhaps incidents like this happen (partially) due to the nature of the army.

That story was about a Marine(big difference), and what do you mean the nature of the army?

I really hate the idea of 50,000 marines running around Japan, but when you consider that Japan doesn't really have much of an army, then 50,000 is actually not that much for the defense of a country with 120 million people.

:confused:

I don't think I explained myself properly.

I just think that perhaps incidents like this happen (partially) due to the nature of the army.

Two things:

Firstly, you'd think Owinawan parents would have taught their daughters to stay the hell away from Americans by now.

Secondly, you'd think the Pentagon would have gotten a bit more serious about this by now.

Two things:

Firstly, you'd think Owinawan parents would have taught their daughters to stay the hell away from Americans by now.

Secondly, you'd think the Pentagon would have gotten a bit more serious about this by now.


The Marines are a boys club. The military wont take things like this seriously, ever.

The Marines are a boys club. The military wont take things like this seriously, ever.

While I was in, one of the members of my battalion sexually assaulted a woman off-base, was convicted by Military Court Marshall and sentenced to 20 years in a federal penitentiary... So your statement isn't true.

While I was in, one of the members of my battalion sexually assaulted a woman off-base, was convicted by Military Court Marshall and sentenced to 20 years in a federal penitentiary... So your statement isn't true.



Im honostly shocked to hear that. Everything Ive heard from both insiders and outsiders close to it lead me to believe otherwise.


Hm.

Im honostly shocked to hear that. Everything Ive heard from both insiders and outsiders close to it lead me to believe otherwise.


Hm.

OK, I also know of instances where stuff was done and they didn't get punished (or not much) but I just wanted to make it clear that it depends a great deal upon the nature of the units commander.

OK, I also know of instances where stuff was done and they didn't get punished (or not much) but I just wanted to make it clear that it depends a great deal upon the nature of the units commander.

I buy that.


Im sure its more of a boys club with certain units than with others.

You'd think the Japanese would be sick of it seeing as it's coming on 60 years of US imperialist occupation...

You'd think the Japanese would be sick of it seeing as it's coming on 60 years of US imperialist occupation...



You realize Japanese Culture is....not at all like US culture right? If the US occupation really is imperialism, we're doing a damn poor job at it.

We also export almost nothing to them and dont import nearly as much as we do from China.

If us being in Japan is still classified as Imperialism, we fail at Imperialism.

SOme are. Others are just incorrigibly horny(which I respect). :p

I suspect your wife has much to say about that, you being a former seaman and all that damage done to the family jewels yet still having three mini-LGs. :p

You'd think the Japanese would be sick of it seeing as it's coming on 60 years of US imperialist occupation...

Wow.

You realize Japan attacked the US, right? And the that the US is occupying because of the attack, yes?

Japan brought the occupation on themselves.

Though the rape should not be tolerated.

Wow.

You realize Japan attacked the US, right? And the that the US is occupying because of the attack, yes?

Japan brought the occupation on themselves.

Though the rape should not be tolerated.

Sixty years+ of occupation?

Oh boy will you be in Iraq for a long time....

Sixty years+ of occupation?

Oh boy will you be in Iraq for a long time....



Well John McCain is running for president...

Sixty years+ of occupation?

Oh boy will you be in Iraq for a long time....
We're still in Germany, too.

Meh, what are they bitching about. They Bataan death marched our American asses way back when.

On a more serious note...

I'd say a customary Yakuza removal of the finger is in order here.

Here we go again:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080211/ap_on_re_as/japan_marine_arrested

I really like the part where he said he forced the girl down and kissed her, but didn't rape her, as if that would excuse the matter.

Okinawans are PISSED right now and rightly so. Even worse, it's this type of action that casts a very bad pall not just on US military personnel stationed in Japan, but Americans and foreigners living in Japan in general.

I hope the marine is given a fair trial, and if found guilty, punished in accordance with the law.

There's a load of crap. Probably based on watching one too many TV shows.



Not according to all my buddies who are marines, some of whom are commanders.

The Marines are a boys club. The military wont take things like this seriously, ever.
There's a load of crap. Probably based on watching one too many TV shows.

The Marines of post World War 2 might have been like that -- even up through the Vietnam day, I might believe that this Marine would be spirited home before he could be tried. But not now.

My only experience is with the Marine Corps, and I believe that the expression "eat their young" is a good one. We didn't tolerate disobedience of host nation laws when I was on active duty and I don't see why we would be lax now.


By the way folks, let's not forget that Okinawa hosts the Army and Air Force, as well as the 3rd MarDiv

By the way folks, let's not forget that Okinawa hosts the Army and Air Force, as well as the 3rd MarDiv

Increasingly, it looks like they should host none of them.

You realize Japanese Culture is....not at all like US culture right? If the US occupation really is imperialism, we're doing a damn poor job at it.

We also export almost nothing to them and dont import nearly as much as we do from China.

If us being in Japan is still classified as Imperialism, we fail at Imperialism.

AP fails at reason :rolleyes:

AP fails at reason :rolleyes:


AP?

I flat out don't believe you. That's not the Marine Corps I retired from and it doesn't jibe with anything I've heard about it since then.

Either they're lying to you, or you're lying to us.


So Abu Ghreib was a media lie? Are you that blinded by loyalty that you honostly dont think the Marine Core has people who wouldnt care about this?

Get over yourself. I know theyre not lying. You may not have known anyone like that, which is good. But to deny they arent there is simply false.

Increasingly, it looks like they should host none of them.
What, based on this? Show me a group of 16,000 soldiers or Marines that never violate a law and I'll guarantee that they're all resting in Arlington.

Not according to all my buddies who are marines, some of whom are commanders.
I flat out don't believe you. That's not the Marine Corps I retired from and it doesn't jibe with anything I've heard about it since then.

Either they're lying to you, or you're lying to us.

I hope the marine is given a fair trial, and if found guilty, punished in accordance with the law.

What are you, nuts?!? That's perfectly reasonable! There's no place for that crap here. now grab a torch and pitchfork and march, dammit! :mad:

How so?If people think the military is beyond corruption, they're wrong. There have been just as many military scandals as there have been business scandals, if not more.

What, based on this? Show me a group of 16,000 soldiers or Marines that never violate a law and I'll guarantee that they're all resting in Arlington.

Yeah, I was hoping you'd answer something to that effect...

***Minefield***

Ah, but you see, far less than one in 16,000 Muslims serve as fodder for your usual rants about them. So you'll have to pick between:

"These marines represent "many" of them as well as the Muslims you enjoy using as "examples" represent many of the Muslims"

and

"These marines do not represent "many" of them and neither do the Muslims you enjoy using as "examples" represent many of the Muslims"

In short, in order to win this one battle, you will have to admit that you were wrong in most of your posts regarding Muslims.

What's your choice? And kindly remember that I will save this post, depending on it.

Your move.

Yeah, I was hoping you'd answer something to that effect...

***Minefield***

Ah, but you see, far less than one in 16,000 Muslims serve as fodder for your usual rants about them. So you'll have to pick between:

"These marines represent "many" of them as well as the Muslims you enjoy using as "examples" represent many of the Muslims"

and

"These marines do not represent "many" of them and neither do the Muslims you enjoy using as "examples" represent many of the Muslims"

In short, in order to win this one battle, you will have to admit that you were wrong in most of your posts regarding Muslims.

What's your choice? And kindly remember that I will save this post, depending on it.

Your move.


F*cking awesome. I forgot this is our resident "ebil moslam" ranter. There needs to be an applause smiley.

F*cking awesome. I forgot this is our resident "ebil moslam" ranter. There needs to be an applause smiley.

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/hi5.gif

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/icon_nworthy.gif

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/applause.gif

or

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/yelclap.gif

What, based on this? Show me a group of 16,000 soldiers or Marines that never violate a law and I'll guarantee that they're all resting in Arlington.

Yeah, I was hoping you'd answer something to that effect...



I actually agree with Myrm on this, also amused by him getting caught at being a hypocrit. :p

I actually agree with Myrm on this, also amused by him getting caught at being a hypocrit. :p

My reason for wanting them out of Okinawa is another one entirely; Myrmi, however, asked a "based on this", as I hoped he would. And now he's landed nicely on my minefield...

Gosh, I love these combats! They make me feel alive!

My only experience is with the Marine Corps, and I believe that the expression "eat their young" is a good one. We didn't tolerate disobedience of host nation laws when I was on active duty and I don't see why we would be lax now.
"I think it was absolutely stupid. I have said several times: for the price they paid to rent the car [used in the crime], they could have had a girl [prostitute]."- Admiral Richard C. Macke at the time of the 1995 Rape Incident, which also had it's own share of problems, such as US forces being unwilling to release the servicemen until ordered to do so by President Clinton.

Not to mention a lot of little petty stuff that never gets a serviceman arrested for, but would anyone one else.

My personal favorite though has to be the current complain that the US military has a remarkable tendency to transfer anyone named in a paternity suit back to the US.

That story was about a Marine(big difference), and what do you mean the nature of the army?

Whoops... misread that.

(I'm just a hippy who thinks the armed forces turns people into evil hate-machines...)

Anyway, I'm obviously not justifying his actions.

We're still in Germany, too.Not as occupiers, though. That officially ended in 1991, and inofficially a lot earlier.

The Host Club members aren't gay...show, ^_; [sniff]

There's no need to be gay to act gay.

We're still in Germany, too.

Not as occupation troops, you aren't.
You've got some Nato units stationed there, that's all.

My reason for wanting them out of Okinawa is another one entirely; Myrmi, however, asked a "based on this", as I hoped he would. And now he's landed nicely on my minefield...

Gosh, I love these combats! They make me feel alive!
Calm down. I haven't stepped in one, yet. And if this makes you feel alive, well, I won't go too far in that direction, except to give you my sympathy.

It's not hypocritical, it's realistic. People commit crimes. Putting a uniform on them doesn't make them better or worse than they were as civilians. That's why there are legal officers in units. That's why there is a separate code of military justice that catches offenses that aren't covered in civilian law. That's why we spend days learning the host country laws and are held accountable if we break them.

What part of my statement was hypocritical, anyway? We have one Marine that has been accused of a crime. He's going to get a Japanese trial and may well end up eating fish heads and rice for a number of years. Fine, that's what he deserves if guilty.

Now we're back to my original question about who's painting with the broad brush?

"I think it was absolutely stupid. I have said several times: for the price they paid to rent the car [used in the crime], they could have had a girl [prostitute]."- Admiral Richard C. Macke at the time of the 1995 Rape Incident, which also had it's own share of problems, such as US forces being unwilling to release the servicemen until ordered to do so by President Clinton.

Not to mention a lot of little petty stuff that never gets a serviceman arrested for, but would anyone one else.

My personal favorite though has to be the current complain that the US military has a remarkable tendency to transfer anyone named in a paternity suit back to the US.
Let's see... 1995, 2008... That's something like once every 13 years. If that's the rape rate by American servicemen, we should be congratulating ourselves.

Speaking of paternity... We had a policy that left the Marine in country whenever there was an alleged incident of abandonment until it was cleared up. You need to figure out how to separate complaints from fact.

Let's see... 1995, 2008... That's something like once every 13 years. If that's the rape rate by American servicemen, we should be congratulating ourselves.
You HAVE to be fucking joking... It was 13 years between rapes of children in Okinawa and THAT'S a reason to congratulate ourselves? Yeah, I'll give you congratulations as you have confirmed you really are, how shall I put this, lacking in a number of areas needed to be called human.

Speaking of paternity... We had a policy that left the Marine in country whenever there was an alleged incident of abandonment until it was cleared up. You need to figure out how to separate complaints from fact.
Y'know, I think I'll take the word of the Japan Times over someone who thinks that any raped children is something to be celebrating.

(I'm just a hippy who thinks the armed forces turns people into evil hate-machines...)
Wait until you meet Wallonochia (or Nouvelle Wallonochie, as he's called today). He'll help bury that notion. :)

(I'm just a hippy who thinks the armed forces turns people into evil hate-machines...)
Well, it doesn't, there are scumbags in the military though, just like there's scumbag civilians...
Anyway, I'm obviously not justifying his actions.
Nor am I...
If the guy is guilty he should be sent away to Leavenworth for a long time.

Well, it doesn't, there are scumbags in the military though, just like there's scumbag civilians...


See, the reason I tend to instinctively prefer the scumbag civilians is that they usually aren't armed, nor trained for combat.
But that's just me, really.

What part of my statement was hypocritical, anyway? We have one Marine that has been accused of a crime. He's going to get a Japanese trial and may well end up eating fish heads and rice for a number of years. Fine, that's what he deserves if guilty.


Several marines accused of crime, but not all Marines are criminals. Yet...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=548909

A group of Muslim women have problems with surgical procedures, so all Muslim women should not be doctors.

Bigot. Hypocrite.


Let's see... 1995, 2008... That's something like once every 13 years. If that's the rape rate by American servicemen, we should be congratulating ourselves.


Military criminal apologist.

It's not hypocritical, it's realistic. People commit crimes. Putting a uniform on them doesn't make them better or worse than they were as civilians.


Not all civilians commit crimes...

Some would say that - if you are going to give guns to people, you should probably make sure they aren't the criminal people. Doubly so, if those people are your ambassadors to the rest of the world, no?


Now we're back to my original question about who's painting with the broad brush?

You just suggested that 'civilians' (as a general construct) are criminals.

Hard to imagine a much broader brush, to be honest.

In a way he actually has a point, the 'rape rate' as he puts it is higher in the civilian population of the U.S.

ANd among the clergy. *nod*

In a way he actually has a point, the 'rape rate' as he puts it is higher in the civilian population of the U.S.

Let me put it this way. If I and a group of people started murdering NSGers at a rate of 5 a day, and a week later, dropped to 2 a day, is that a reason to congratulate ourselves?

"Today, we killed only Andaras Prime and Myrmidonisia. Last week, we would have not only killed those two, but Whispering Legs, F&G (if we could find him) and The Atlantian Islands. We're making progress people. Well done us. Well done indeed."

[/sarcasm]

See, the reason I tend to instinctively prefer the scumbag civilians is that they usually aren't armed, nor trained for combat.
But that's just me, really.

That is a good point :p

Let's see... 1995, 2008... That's something like once every 13 years. If that's the rape rate by American servicemen, we should be congratulating ourselves.

Military criminal apologist.

In a way he actually has a point, the 'rape rate' as he puts it is higher in the civilian population of the U.S.

Let's see... 1995, 2008... That's something like once every 13 years. If that's the rape rate by American servicemen, we should be congratulating ourselves.


Rape rate of Japanese children.

That doesn't mean American servicemen have not attempted rape on other (non-child) Japanese citizens... or that they have not attempted to rape anyone outside of Japan.

Two rapes, of Japanese children, in 13 years.. and you think we should congratulate them?

There is no 'congratulations' limit. There is no 'oh, THAT's a low number, well done' mark. The only acceptable number of rapes is zero.

In a way he actually has a point, the 'rape rate' as he puts it is higher in the civilian population of the U.S.

Of Japanese schoolchildren?

Because - the 'two in thirteen years' figure is that specific.

Calm down. I haven't stepped in one, yet. And if this makes you feel alive, well, I won't go too far in that direction, except to give you my sympathy.

It's not hypocritical, it's realistic. People commit crimes. Putting a uniform on them doesn't make them better or worse than they were as civilians. That's why there are legal officers in units. That's why there is a separate code of military justice that catches offenses that aren't covered in civilian law. That's why we spend days learning the host country laws and are held accountable if we break them.

What part of my statement was hypocritical, anyway? We have one Marine that has been accused of a crime. He's going to get a Japanese trial and may well end up eating fish heads and rice for a number of years. Fine, that's what he deserves if guilty.

Now we're back to my original question about who's painting with the broad brush?




No, see, you are being a hypocritical bigot. A few marines are bad apples, but we shouldnt judge them based on a few.

A few muslims *insert typical rant of your's here*, therefore, all Muslims are ebil.

If you dont see why that makes you a hypocrit, your not only a bigot, youre also a fucking moron.


Im not even gonna touch your 13 years lets pat ourselves on the back comment, because everyone else has already chewed you out for that.

<snip> the Military should have screening processes that prevent rapists from getting in, but also because the same screening processes should prevent PEDOPHILES as well.

No argument here.

Calm down. I haven't stepped in one, yet. And if this makes you feel alive, well, I won't go too far in that direction, except to give you my sympathy.

It's not hypocritical, it's realistic. People commit crimes. Putting a uniform on them doesn't make them better or worse than they were as civilians. That's why there are legal officers in units. That's why there is a separate code of military justice that catches offenses that aren't covered in civilian law. That's why we spend days learning the host country laws and are held accountable if we break them.

What part of my statement was hypocritical, anyway? We have one Marine that has been accused of a crime. He's going to get a Japanese trial and may well end up eating fish heads and rice for a number of years. Fine, that's what he deserves if guilty.

Now we're back to my original question about who's painting with the broad brush?

I painted none with a broad brush here: I said that they should leave, for entirely different reasons, including but not limited to Japan's sovereignty.

You, however, just repeated that one soldier's action doesn't make all or most soldiers evil. True, but that also means that, by a simple analogy, the same thing happens to Muslims, a group which you constantly bash.

So, yes, Myrmi, you did step on a mine. Because now, whenever you start a rant on Muslims, all I'll have to do is link this post of yours (Some of you gentlemen would be kind to sig it for further use in case I can't be reached) and the whole premise of your pseudo-point will be torn apart.

I have, in this thread, personally removed from you the ability to ever bash Muslims again without seeming like a laughing stock or a hypocrite.

Forever.

THAT'S arguing. THAT'S strategy. Not the fallacy tricks or appeals to emotion you seem so fond of.

And several other things make me feel alive, including living, but dissecting you in arguments is one of them.

In a way he actually has a point, the 'rape rate' as he puts it is higher in the civilian population of the U.S.

He might if we knew that those rapes that make the news are ALL the rapes. And even then he wouldn't, not only because the Military should have screening processes that prevent rapists from getting in, but also because the same screening processes should prevent PEDOPHILES as well.

He might if we knew that those rapes that make the news are ALL the rapes.
Which they aren't. There have been other instances in Okinawa and Japan as a whole, which is why the Japanese are more than a little peeved right now.

Which they aren't. There have been other instances in Okinawa and Japan as a whole, which is why the Japanese are more than a little peeved right now.

Ore wa kore wo omotta...

(Which is my poor attempt at saying "I thought as much" in Japanese. I have GOT to restart studying it).

Which they aren't. There have been other instances in Okinawa and Japan as a whole, which is why the Japanese are more than a little peeved right now.

I wasn't aware of these other instances :(
I hereby withdraw my statement

And you're wrong again, maestro. Or maestra -- whichever.

If the Marine had hid behind his service and if the service had condoned his crime, you might have a point. But the Marine didn't say, "I did it because it's a tenet of my service to force myself on children." The service didn't say, "It's okay because he's a Marine and he has a hard time with the Far Eastern culture." Nope, none of that happened.

Actions by Muslims, on the other hand, seem to follow a formula. One almost wonders if there is some master script that the actors are following.
-- Muslim cab drivers refuse to transport a variety of things. Claims religious reasons. A local Muslim society condones the action.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=2827800

-- Muslim women doctors refuse to wash. Claim religious reasons. A local Muslim society condones the act.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327938,00.html

-- Muslim rape epidemic in Scandanavia. Claim religious reasons. Local Muslim groups don't exactly condone, but don't firmly condemn, either.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={3261BB96-7E07-4CCE-9DE8-C2F7FB854E51}

On the other hand, the patter that I see with the Marines is very simple. Commit a crime, go to trial. No one makes excuses, no one blames their religion, no one blames anyone but the miscreant.

If that's the best you can do and it makes you feel 'alive', then you have even more of my sympathy.



But these are not isloated incidents. So one can make the arguement that it has something to do with the marines, just as you argue that Islam makes Muslims do things.

Try and wiggle your way out of it all you want, but in the eyse of most of us now, you are discredited.

I painted none with a broad brush here: I said that they should leave, for entirely different reasons, including but not limited to Japan's sovereignty.

You, however, just repeated that one soldier's action doesn't make all or most soldiers evil. True, but that also means that, by a simple analogy, the same thing happens to Muslims, a group which you constantly bash.

So, yes, Myrmi, you did step on a mine. Because now, whenever you start a rant on Muslims, all I'll have to do is link this post of yours (Some of you gentlemen would be kind to sig it for further use in case I can't be reached) and the whole premise of your pseudo-point will be torn apart.

I have, in this thread, personally removed from you the ability to ever bash Muslims again without seeming like a laughing stock or a hypocrite.

Forever.

THAT'S arguing. THAT'S strategy. Not the fallacy tricks or appeals to emotion you seem so fond of.

And several other things make me feel alive, including living, but dissecting you in arguments is one of them.
And you're wrong again, maestro. Or maestra -- whichever.

If the Marine had hid behind his service and if the service had condoned his crime, you might have a point. But the Marine didn't say, "I did it because it's a tenet of my service to force myself on children." The service didn't say, "It's okay because he's a Marine and he has a hard time with the Far Eastern culture." Nope, none of that happened.

Actions by Muslims, on the other hand, seem to follow a formula. One almost wonders if there is some master script that the actors are following.
-- Muslim cab drivers refuse to transport a variety of things. Claims religious reasons. A local Muslim society condones the action.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=2827800

-- Muslim women doctors refuse to wash. Claim religious reasons. A local Muslim society condones the act.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327938,00.html

-- Muslim rape epidemic in Scandanavia. Claim religious reasons. Local Muslim groups don't exactly condone, but don't firmly condemn, either.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={3261BB96-7E07-4CCE-9DE8-C2F7FB854E51}

On the other hand, the patter that I see with the Marines is very simple. Commit a crime, go to trial. No one makes excuses, no one blames their religion, no one blames anyone but the miscreant.

If that's the best you can do and it makes you feel 'alive', then you have even more of my sympathy.

You HAVE to be fucking joking... It was 13 years between rapes of children in Okinawa and THAT'S a reason to congratulate ourselves? Yeah, I'll give you congratulations as you have confirmed you really are, how shall I put this, lacking in a number of areas needed to be called human.


Y'know, I think I'll take the word of the Japan Times over someone who thinks that any raped children is something to be celebrating.

Rape rate of Japanese children.

That doesn't mean American servicemen have not attempted rape on other (non-child) Japanese citizens... or that they have not attempted to rape anyone outside of Japan.

Two rapes, of Japanese children, in 13 years.. and you think we should congratulate them?

There is no 'congratulations' limit. There is no 'oh, THAT's a low number, well done' mark. The only acceptable number of rapes is zero.
You two have to be a couple of the biggest idiots... Okay, maybe it didn't come out the way it could have, but to put the worst possible connotation on my statement is just silly. Did it ever occur to either of you to ask, "Did you really mean that?" Of course not, why be rational when we can be hysterical, right?

I suspect that the crime rate by American servicemen is much lower than the crime rate by Japanese nationals. I don't know where to go to prove it, but there's this little bit (http://www3.pref.okinawa.jp/site/view/contview.jsp?cateid=14&id=586&page=1) from the prefecture..."　　　Further, there has been more than 5,076 cases of crime caused by the *SOFA status people since the reversion of Okinawa to mainland Japan. This number includes 531 cases of brutal crimes and 955 cases of assaults. " That works out to about 830 cases per year, from 1996 to 2001. Here's what happened in 1997 (http://www.okinawatimes.co.jp/eng/19990306.html), "The Prefectural Police recently put out the Okinawa crime statistics for 1998. The total recognized number of criminal cases was 16,808, an increase of 12.3% over 1997." I'd say the Okinawans are worse criminals that the servicemen.

I think that's good. I think most people would consider that good. Sure, we should try for zero, but it won't happen. So let's shoot for the best possible outcome, but not be distraught when we only get close.

If the Marine had hid behind his service and if the service had condoned his crime, you might have a point. But the Marine didn't say, "I did it because it's a tenet of my service to force myself on children." The service didn't say, "It's okay because he's a Marine and he has a hard time with the Far Eastern culture." Nope, none of that happened.

And yet the fact remains that just as most marines do not condone rape, while some obviously do, most Muslims do not condone that behavior, though some people who claim to be Muslims so.

Because, if at least some of the marines don't condone it, why is it that we hear incidents about cover-ups, transferences due to paternity suits and so on?

I do not resent your futile attempt to run away. Rather, I am amused by it.

As for "what makes me feel alive", I'm pretty sure you might want to stop getting your jollies through Muslim-bashing before casting stones. You see, at least what I do for fun has basis on fact.

Not that you will be able to bash Muslims here anymore. You have me to thank for that, remember.

If the Marine had hid behind his service and if the service had condoned his crime, you might have a point.


And the service spiriting away the perps back home before they could go on trial is not hiding behind the service, nope, nope, nope.


Actions by Muslims, on the other hand, seem to follow a formula. One almost wonders if there is some master script that the actors are following.


Just like the hiding of perps, hiding of evidence, and outright denial against evidence, seems to be a master script the US marines follow hmm?

So much for "eating their young". If anything, your actions prove the opposite.

Amazing. It's already pointed out how hypocritical that stance is, and yet you keep pushing it.

But what else should I expect from a hypocrite? Honesty? Hah!

And the service spiriting away the perps back home before they could go on trial is not hiding behind the service, nope, nope, nope.



Just like the hiding of perps, hiding of evidence, and outright denial against evidence, seems to be a master script the US marines follow hmm?

So much for "eating their young". If anything, your actions prove the opposite.

Amazing. It's already pointed out how hypocritical that stance is, and yet you keep pushing it.

But what else should I expect from a hypocrite? Honesty? Hah!


You forgot bigot.

Try and wiggle your way out of it all you want, but in the eyse of most of us now, you are discredited.
Oh he lost any credibility he had a long time ago.

Yet another reason we should bring all our troops home.

Not that you will be able to bash Muslims here anymore. You have me to thank for that, remember.

Why, what happened?

Why, what happened?

My Ace of Knaves happened.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13445048&postcount=114

Not that you will be able to bash Muslims here anymore. You have me to thank for that, remember.

Oh, technically that isn't true. He could still bash them. But not without looking like a buffoon. We already have established that he's a hypocrite and a bigot. But if he persists, it would establish the buffoon attribute.

Oh, technically that isn't true. He could still bash them. But not without looking like a buffoon. We already have established that he's a hypocrite and a bigot. But if he persists, it would establish the buffoon attribute.

Well, yeah, but I pledge to, in every Muslim-bashing thread from Myrmi I see, post my Ace of Knaves.

You two have to be a couple of the biggest idiots...


I'm going to head over to the moderation thread to see if you've already been reported for this. If you haven't, I'll be reporting you.

If you can't debate, don't - I don't appreciate being called an idiot simply because your comments aren't (perhaps cannot be?) taken in the way you (claim you) intended.


Okay, maybe it didn't come out the way it could have, but to put the worst possible connotation on my statement is just silly.


I didn't put any connotation on your comment. I took it at face value.

Are you suggesting you meant something other than what you wrote? Because - if so - I'm sorry, I don't do telepathy, and can only debate what you say.


Did it ever occur to either of you to ask, "Did you really mean that?" Of course not, why be rational when we can be hysterical, right?


Hardly hysterical. You made a comment which needed to be addressed. Did you not mean it, then? I wonder how this will unfold.


I suspect that the crime rate by American servicemen is much lower than the crime rate by Japanese nationals.


I don't care if it is - we are debating US servicemen, I believe.

Also - "I suspect" isn't a very strong source of evidence.


I think that's good.


I don't. Rape is never 'good'. A hundred rapes is not 'good', and one rape is not 'good'.


I think most people would consider that good. Sure, we should try for zero, but it won't happen. So let's shoot for the best possible outcome, but not be distraught when we only get close.

So, what you're basically saying is that I wasn't hysterically taking you out of context - since you've just basically repeated the same comment in slightly different form?

You said we should be congratulating ourselves for our servicemen 'only' raping two children, in Japan, in 13 years. You say we shouldn't 'be distraught' when we have the occassional rape of a child. I disagree - both times. I think we should absolutely not tolerate rape. Patting ourselves on the back because our international armed representatives 'only' rape two children (at least, 'only' get CAUGHT raping two...) is ridiculous. One is too many.

Ha-ha...
A bigot, for bashing against muslims? Oh man, I can't thank you enough, O master of repercussions...;)