NationStates Jolt Archive


Japan's next looming financial crisis?

Daistallia 2104
11-02-2008, 10:24
Is Japan Hiding Billions In Subprime Losses?
FN Arena News - February 11 2008

By Greg Peel

It is estimated that across the globe some US$400-500bn has been wiped off the value of subprime securities, such as collateralised debt obligations, which were held by all and sundry. However, to date the banking fraternities of the US and Europe have only written down US$130bn. Admittedly banks everywhere were initially reluctant to make "kitchen sink" write-downs (implying that all losses were now on the table) as they tried to kid themselves values would bounce back, or as they tried to cover their mistakes, but now supposedly the end is nigh. New accounting regulations now in force in the US, for example, rather prevent banks and brokers from fooling anyone anymore.

So the question is: Where is the other US$300bn?

Fingers have begun to point to the Land of the Rising Sun. It is all rather speculative at this point, and other commentators dismiss the notion, but it could be that Japanese banks have been holding back. To date, subprime losses declared by Japan total only US$4.7bn. Back in the nineties, when the Japanese banking system all but collapsed, Japanese banks spent years trying not to reveal the extent of their difficulties, lest they should "lose face". This just made the situation all the more dire when finally the truth came out.

The London Daily Telegraph's Ambrose Evans-Pritchard notes that while all around the world stock markets have been falling, Japan's has fallen by a significant 17%. Leading the Nikkei index down has been heavy selling in the bank sector. Banks such as Mizuho Financial, Mitsubishi and Sumitomo Mitsui have seen their share prices trashed just as much as their American counterparts, yet from subprime declarations to date one would assume Japanese banks have remained relatively unscathed.

As the credit crisis has gained momentum in recent months, analysts have been constantly on the look out for what might be "the next shoe to drop". It might well be that Japan is it. Evans-Pritchard notes that a default risk index of 50 Japanese companies saw its biggest ever one day jump (perceived risk increase) last Thursday. This is a big warning signal. Japan remains, after all, the world's second largest economy by a big margin. And that economy has been hurting badly since October. Goldman Sachs' chief Japan economist, Tetsufumi Yamakawa, has suggested "Recession is a clear and present danger in Japan" and his colleague at Morgan Stanley has suggested likewise.

That's not good news for Japan, as it has spent over a decade trying to drag itself out of a deflationary environment. Prior to the subprime implosion, the Bank of Japan had finally raised its cash rate to 0.5% from zero, and signs were that another rise could be around the corner. Now it looks like zero will be back again. This would only provide more fuel for the carry trade fire.

It is the existence of the carry trade that would tend to make one believe Japan must be deeply stuck in the subprime mire. Most of the carry trade is conducted by mum & dad Japanese who are assiduous savers but need to invest outside of Japan to avoid their retirement funds being eroded by negative real rates. Japan holds US$3 trillion of foreign reserves, or about the equivalent of the US foreign debt. About US$1 trillion has gone out as carry trades, with investments being made in sovereign bonds from New Zealand to Iceland. Subprime CDOs were high-yielding instruments with AAA ratings. They must have looked rather attractive to Japanese banks as offshore investments offerings.

What is missing are data indicating just where some US$250 billion earned each year from offshore investments has gone. Indications are that Japan has not increased its holdings of US Treasuries.
Continues here (http://www.fnarena.com/index2.cfm?type=dsp_newsitem&n=06D219EE-1871-E587-E1A4EFF4AAEA0512)

Oh dear. I had been thinking the "lost decade" was at an end...
Newer Burmecia
11-02-2008, 10:58
Forgive my ignorance, but isn't Japan's economy almost always struggling?
Alexandrian Ptolemais
11-02-2008, 11:08
Oh great, another five years of Japanese money pouring into New Zealand, driving our exchange rate up and the complaints of farmers
Daistallia 2104
11-02-2008, 14:16
Forgive my ignorance, but isn't Japan's economy almost always struggling?

LOL Somebody doesn't remember the boom... ;) No, it wasn't always like this. And in fact, things were starting to look like the worst was done...
Posi
12-02-2008, 00:56
What is a carry trade?
Soyut
12-02-2008, 01:08
LOL Somebody doesn't remember the boom... ;) No, it wasn't always like this. And in fact, things were starting to look like the worst was done...

I know, japan is like the number 2 economy in the world right.
Neu Leonstein
12-02-2008, 01:13
What is a carry trade?
It's when you borrow something in a currency that pays little interest (say the Yen) and put that money into another currency for which that other central bank pays higher interest. It's quite popular in Japan because you can borrow relatively cheaply there. Lot's of mom and dad investors (actually, mainly the moms) are really into it.

I know, japan is like the number 2 economy in the world right.
Yes. It's just that the Japanese model of capitalism with big corporate conglomerates all working together and helping each other out took a big ass hit when the banks (which were at the centre of these conglomerates and handing money out in cheap loans whenever it was asked for) got into trouble.

It's been taking a while to change the structure of the system into a more American competitive system in which you don't get a loan because you and the bank co-own a massive network of contractors-cum-business units, but because you have a plan with the money that promises returns.

But Japanese banks had been getting back on top in more recent times, being more creative with their money and thus promising that the economy could finally return to normal properly (when it was bad, because all the banks couldn't or wouldn't loan money, the central bank kept having to cut interest rates until they were below zero in real terms - to little effect). If Japanese banks sunk a lot of money in subprime stuff, that could be a pretty serious problem. Let's hope that it isn't.
Mondoth
12-02-2008, 01:20
Japanese Real Estate has always been wonky, I wouldn't be surprised if subprime loan losses was just another way in which the land of the rising sun has over-reached it's landmass.
Neu Leonstein
12-02-2008, 01:32
Japanese Real Estate has always been wonky, I wouldn't be surprised if subprime loan losses was just another way in which the land of the rising sun has over-reached it's landmass.
This would be about subprime securities from the US. I really think that the Japanese real estate industry doesn't lend itself to that sort of creativity very well. Not just are the people in there probably quite conservative and in it for the long haul (securitisation is looking for a quick return) but the whole thing about only land being worth something and houses being ripped down as the land changes hands...

No, this is Japanese banks buying securities made out of American subprime mortgages.
Soyut
12-02-2008, 01:49
It's when you borrow something in a currency that pays little interest (say the Yen) and put that money into another currency for which that other central bank pays higher interest. It's quite popular in Japan because you can borrow relatively cheaply there. Lot's of mom and dad investors (actually, mainly the moms) are really into it.


Yes. It's just that the Japanese model of capitalism with big corporate conglomerates all working together and helping each other out took a big ass hit when the banks (which were at the centre of these conglomerates and handing money out in cheap loans whenever it was asked for) got into trouble.

It's been taking a while to change the structure of the system into a more American competitive system in which you don't get a loan because you and the bank co-own a massive network of contractors-cum-business units, but because you have a plan with the money that promises returns.

But Japanese banks had been getting back on top in more recent times, being more creative with their money and thus promising that the economy could finally return to normal properly (when it was bad, because all the banks couldn't or wouldn't loan money, the central bank kept having to cut interest rates until they were below zero in real terms - to little effect). If Japanese banks sunk a lot of money in subprime stuff, that could be a pretty serious problem. Let's hope that it isn't.

You seem to really know what your talking about. I have been trying to unravel the enigma of global finance for a while now. Is there something you can recommend for me to read?
Neu Leonstein
12-02-2008, 01:57
You seem to really know what your talking about. I have been trying to unravel the enigma of global finance for a while now. Is there something you can recommend for me to read?
Try The Economist. It's sections on finance, economics (http://www.economist.com/finance/) and business (http://www.economist.com/business/) are really pretty good. They explain stuff and try to keep it in simple terms, but usually go to plenty of depth so that afterwards you can watch news like this and think "I know what that is". I quite like the rest of the magazine too, but the opinion pieces in particular have their own slant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_editorial_stance) to them. It's not a secret, but it can put some people off.

I haven't really read books on it other than my textbooks at uni (and I've only done two real finance subjects).
Soyut
12-02-2008, 02:15
Try The Economist. It's sections on finance, economics (http://www.economist.com/finance/) and business (http://www.economist.com/business/) are really pretty good. They explain stuff and try to keep it in simple terms, but usually go to plenty of depth so that afterwards you can watch news like this and think "I know what that is". I quite like the rest of the magazine too, but the opinion pieces in particular have their own slant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_editorial_stance) to them. It's not a secret, but it can put some people off.

I haven't really read books on it other than my textbooks at uni (and I've only done two real finance subjects).

sweet dude, this actually this sounds like my cup of tea. Thankyou