NationStates Jolt Archive

I wish the "spirit" of the age of reason would return and that humanity would once again base society on what was logical, reasonable and scientific rather than what we base it on today such as greed, hedonism and bureaucracy. Don't you?

Wrong forum....

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Whats the age of reason? :confused:

Whats the age of reason? :confused:

The renaissance. It was called the age of reason because society throughout Europe was based on rational and scientific thinking which brought about advancements in the military, education, medicine, science, phi9losophy and technology.

The world today is far closer to acting on the principles of the Age of Reason than that period itself...

(Just to cut the confusion -- transferred from International Incidents.)

The renaissance. It was called the age of reason because society throughout Europe was based on rational and scientific thinking which brought about advancements in the military, education, medicine, science, phi9losophy and technology.
I've usually heard the Enlightenment referred to as the Age of Reason, a hundred or so years after the Renaissance.
The world today is far closer to acting on the principles of the Age of Reason than that period itself...
That is very true. Even its most "reasonable" people would appear outdated in their views today. The first two that come to mind are Locke and Jefferson. Locke, who was in favor of religious freedom except for non-Protestants and Jefferson, who seemed to dislike slavery but not enough to actually free his slaves, would be considered reactionary.

The renaissance. It was called the age of reason because society throughout Europe was based on rational and scientific thinking which brought about advancements in the military, education, medicine, science, phi9losophy and technology.

Except it wasn't based on rational and scientific thinking. It was based more on "hey those guys are doing better than us let's take their ideas".

I think you mean the Age of Enlightenment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment) or do you mean this era (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Reason) I would probably combine them though as one time period...

I wish the "spirit" of the age of reason would return and that humanity would once again base society on what was logical, reasonable and scientific rather than what we base it on today such as greed, hedonism and bureaucracy. Don't you?

There was an age of reason? :confused:

There is, to my knowledge, no real time frame refered to as "the age of reason". It is the title of a book by thomas payne, but that was written at the end of the 18th century, 200 years after the rennesance ended.

This thread fails.

I think that's an awfully romantic view of the age of reason. It was an era in which it was assumed that one could reconstruct society through one's own deduction, which does not result in progress but rather increased brutality and force. Hence why it was an era in which absolute monarchy reigned; Voltaire, for instance, was enamored by the ideals of Catherine the Great to 'rationalize' Russia despite the immense cruelty of her system, and Hobbes wanted a monarch who could use whatever means he wanted to prevent the boogeyman of a 'war of all against all.' And what was built on the foundation of this era were the arbitrary nationalistic regimes that would torment the world even to this day.

There was an age of reason? :confused:
Not yet, no. You haven't missed it.

There is, to my knowledge, no real time frame refered to as "the age of reason". It is the title of a book by thomas payne, but that was written at the end of the 18th century, 200 years after the rennesance ended.

This thread fails.
Indeed. It's hard for a thread not to fail, when it can't even check its own terms. This would have been ridiculed by the thinkers and writers of both the Renaissance and the Enlightenment (and the latter would have been real bitches about it, too, the Enlightenment being also the Golden Age of Evil Bitchdom).

I think that's an awfully romantic view of the age of reason. It was an era in which it was assumed that one could reconstruct society through one's own deduction, which does not result in progress but rather increased brutality and force. Hence why it was an era in which absolute monarchy reigned; Voltaire, for instance, was enamored by the ideals of Catherine the Great to 'rationalize' Russia despite the immense cruelty of her system, and Hobbes wanted a monarch who could use whatever means he wanted to prevent the boogeyman of a 'war of all against all.' And what was built on the foundation of this era were the arbitrary nationalistic regimes that would torment the world even to this day.
This is true.

However, if by Age of Reason, the OP actually means the Enlightenment, meaning the 17th - 18th centuries, then I'll say I wish we had a few certain parts of it back. Not the brutally oppressive class structures of society, nor the corrupt and unjust legal systems, nor the arbitrary and tyrannical governments, nor the smallpox, cholera, tuberculosis and plague. No, not even the omnipresent smell.

No, what I wish we had back from that time period was the style. Especially in the latter part of the period, they had some really nice clothes and very good interior design going on. I have to admit, I really do think guys look very sexy in 18th century clothing. Beats the shit out of what guys wear now, at any rate. They had good music and architecture, too. And some of the manners -- both good and bad -- would be fun to have back as well.

But that's about it.

However, if by Age of Reason, the OP actually means the Enlightenment, meaning the 17th - 18th centuries, then I'll say I wish we had a few certain parts of it back. Not the brutally oppressive class structures of society, nor the corrupt and unjust legal systems, nor the arbitrary and tyrannical governments, nor the smallpox, cholera, tuberculosis and plague. No, not even the omnipresent smell.

No, what I wish we had back from that time period was the style. Especially in the latter part of the period, they had some really nice clothes and very good interior design going on. I have to admit, I really do think guys look very sexy in 18th century clothing. Beats the shit out of what guys wear now, at any rate. They had good music and architecture, too. And some of the manners -- both good and bad -- would be fun to have back as well.

But that's about it.


Well there was some good going on. There were great writers and thinkers of the time like Payne, Franklin, Jefferson, and others who greatly advanced our ideas of democracy and governance by the people.

However it should be noted that these people were of the upper echelon of the elite, and the vast majority of people were uneducated, and illiterate.

And for the record, I look damn good in breeches and a powdered wig.

Well there was some good going on. There were great writers and thinkers of the time like Payne, Franklin, Jefferson, and others who greatly advanced our ideas of democracy and governance by the people.

However it should be noted that these people were of the upper echelon of the elite, and the vast majority of people were uneducated, and illiterate.
Yes, of course, lots of good brains bouncing around back then, but...well, as a friend once remarked, "As a woman, and considering politics, law and medicine all together, there are not a lot of periods of history I would want to go back to visit." And the 18th century is one of them. My only regret is that I never got to meet Ben Franklin.

And for the record, I look damn good in breeches and a powdered wig.
I'm telling you, the fashion needs to come back. It's time. I'm bored with 70s retro. Let's have some 1770s retro for a bit.

Yes, of course, lots of good brains bouncing around back then, but...well, as a friend once remarked, "As a woman, and considering politics, law and medicine all together, there are not a lot of periods of history I would want to go back to visit." And the 18th century is one of them. My only regret is that I never got to meet Ben Franklin.

Yeah, it was a great time, if you made up the roughly 1% of the population that were white, educated, european, land owning, christian men. For everyone else, it kinda sucked.

By the way Mur, enjoying our wonderful New England Weather?

The renaissance. It was called the age of reason because society throughout Europe was based on rational and scientific thinking which brought about advancements in the military, education, medicine, science, phi9losophy and technology.
... and the Spanish Inquisition: Oh, how very "reasonable"... ;)

The renaissance. It was called the age of reason because society throughout Europe was based on rational and scientific thinking which brought about advancements in the military, education, medicine, science, phi9losophy and technology.

Do not forget the Age of the Lights. The Illuminism, or Enlightenment. Or whatever people call it - I mean the age of Voltaire, Rousseau, Leibnitz, Kant, Danton, Robespierre, Franklin, Jefferson, Beccaria...

Not yet, no. You haven't missed it.

Whew. I'm glad. It sounds kind of nice. To be honest, I'm not so certain that humans are capable of having one outside of Star Trek. :p

Whew. I'm glad. It sounds kind of nice. To be honest, I'm not so certain that humans are capable of having one outside of Star Trek. :p

One explanation that I've seen for the idea working there is that the Vulcans must have slipped some powerful mood-altering drugs into the humans' water-supply... ;)

Reason? Humans? (Insane laughter)

Whats the age of reason? :confused:
Contrary to what South Lizasauria claims, it was the age of Enlightenment, around the early 19th century, when people started being extremely pretentious due to having enough money to afford doing so.

No. It would be nice if romanticism returned. We're living in the age of cynicism.

No. It would be nice if romanticism returned. We're living in the age of cynicism.
Not really, seeing as it leads to everything having to be of absolutely crucial importance, taken until death etc., which gets a bit tiresome, as opposed to being cynical about everything, which leads to people generally not being so irritatingly dramatic.

Yeah, it was a great time, if you made up the roughly 1% of the population that were white, educated, european, land owning, christian men. For everyone else, it kinda sucked.

By the way Mur, enjoying our wonderful New England Weather?
Oh, yes, The Weather. Endlessly entertaining, like a Vin Diesel movie, ain't it? :rolleyes: ;)

Oh, yes, The Weather. Endlessly entertaining, like a Vin Diesel movie, ain't it? :rolleyes: ;)You take that back! :mad:
Pitch Black was a damn fine movie! :mad:

The renaissance. It was called the age of reason because society throughout Europe was based on rational and scientific thinking which brought about advancements in the military, education, medicine, science, phi9losophy and technology.

Right thanks.

No. It would be nice if romanticism returned. We're living in the age of cynicism.
Here, amuse yourself with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Chatterton

Thomas Chatterton - minor poet, major forger, a poor hack of a writer who is most famous for having no luck at all, who never got full credit for his efforts (such as they were) while he was alive, and whose short life became an icon of tragedy for his fellow Romanticists who couldn't be bothered to help him out but just stood by and watched the romantic spectacle of his downward spiral and profited of making paintings and poems about it afterwards.

Romanticism is as dead as Chatterton, and I think that's probably a good thing.

Right thanks.
He's wrong, it's not the Renaissance, it was the Age of Enlightenment, which was about 200 or so years later.

You take that back! :mad:
Pitch Black was a damn fine movie! :mad:

Ha! If you'd been in Boston yesterday, you'd know it's an apt comparison.

Hobbes wanted a monarch who could use whatever means he wanted to prevent the boogeyman of a 'war of all against all.' And what was built on the foundation of this era were the arbitrary nationalistic regimes that would torment the world even to this day.
In Hobbes defense, he wasn't trying to combat the "war of all against all" as much as he was trying to argue for a semblance of order considering he lived in a fairly unruly time of civil unrest. It's really unfair to take these guys out of their historical context.
No, what I wish we had back from that time period was the style. Especially in the latter part of the period, they had some really nice clothes and very good interior design going on. I have to admit, I really do think guys look very sexy in 18th century clothing. Beats the shit out of what guys wear now, at any rate. They had good music and architecture, too. And some of the manners -- both good and bad -- would be fun to have back as well.

But that's about it.

Kant has an awesome quote about fashion, if I remember correctly. Apparently he was quite the well-dressed ethicist and was always wearing something new. I couldn't find the quote in under five minutes, though, or I'd have linked it. Maybe someone else could paraphrase if they know what I'm talking about.

In Hobbes defense, he wasn't trying to combat the "war of all against all" as much as he was trying to argue for a semblance of order considering he lived in a fairly unruly time of civil unrest. It's really unfair to take these guys out of their historical context.


Kant has an awesome quote about fashion, if I remember correctly. Apparently he was quite the well-dressed ethicist and was always wearing something new. I couldn't find the quote in under five minutes, though, or I'd have linked it. Maybe someone else could paraphrase if they know what I'm talking about.

"Does my metaphysics look big in this?"

I don't think we were ever in the "age of reason".


Throughout history there have always been literati, there have always been peaceful people, there have always been warmongerers and there have always been arseholes.

And that's probably the way it will stay.


Yes there does seem to be a culture of stupidity in some aspects of today's society but was that ever any different from before?





Perhaps the grass is always greener in the field from a couple o' hundred years ago.

Um, when was that? I'd love to see an age of reason as described but can't think of anywhere it has existed--except, perhaps, modern Sweden. Which points up a problem with the question: whose reason? :)

Age of reason is good, partially because religion and the various thoecracies would collapse.

Sure, I would support an age of reason, but I don't think we've already had something that can even come close to something that might be called an "age of reason".
And to much reasoning might even become boring, sometimes we need stupid people, for the darwin awards for instance...

Kant has an awesome quote about fashion, if I remember correctly. Apparently he was quite the well-dressed ethicist and was always wearing something new. I couldn't find the quote in under five minutes, though, or I'd have linked it. Maybe someone else could paraphrase if they know what I'm talking about.

Hmm, I thought Kant always was quite modest, with all the duty and stuff like that. And he was much more than an ethicist.

And for the record, I look damn good in breeches and a powdered wig.

Well, you are a lawyer :D

I wish the "spirit" of the age of reason would return and that humanity would once again base society on what was logical, reasonable and scientific rather than what we base it on today such as greed, hedonism and bureaucracy. Don't you?

Oh yes along with the harsh universal suffrage we have now, and that equal rights for women really gets me down too, the abolition of slavery is a killer for me, along with money benefits if i'm rendered incapable of work. Also there's less royalty now, i mean, i miss the old attack everyone the monarch says so. That minimum wage also totally unreasonable.
If anything there was more greed in the age of "reason" than now, especially hedonism.

Bureaucracy does need fixing up though.
Where there are more people there are more problems.

Hmm, I thought Kant always was quite modest, with all the duty and stuff like that. And he was much more than an ethicist.

Regardless, I'd say it is fairly safe to say that he is, at least in contemporary times, best known for his ethical framework. But anyway, I might be thinking of someone else but, on the other hand, the reason the quote stands out in my memory is because, well, I remember it coming from Kant. I'll dig around a bit later and see if I can actually find the real quote to verify whether it came from Kant or from some other modern philosopher.

The only way a person will ever obtain reason is to go off into the wilderness, isolated while thinking and living. It's kind of hit and miss, but practically all of the greats did it. Buddha, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, et all.

"A person is, by definition, an individual capable of rational thought and evaluation. People, on the other hand, are a cowering, hysterical, stupid, violent lot whose decisions can and will result in the worst possible outcomes."

In fact, the whole conflict between Charles I and Parliament was a matter of WHO would have the absolute power in the realm.
That's exactly Hobbes' point. If we were to all agree on one particular authority, and allow such an authority to rule over us, there could never arise a conflict between two groups claiming authority.

In Hobbes defense, he wasn't trying to combat the "war of all against all" as much as he was trying to argue for a semblance of order considering he lived in a fairly unruly time of civil unrest. It's really unfair to take these guys out of their historical context.

I know, he was responding to the English Civil War and the Thirty Years War. But what he neglected to notice was that the disorder in these times was because of absolutist bodies (such as Reformationists and Counter-Reformationists assuming more spiritual power at the expense of the Vatican, and armies accountable only to the king's purse), not because of a lack of them. In fact, the whole conflict between Charles I and Parliament was a matter of WHO would have the absolute power in the realm.