NationStates Jolt Archive

A Warning:I am currently pretty much high and drowsy right now due to a medication that I am taking, so if any part of my post has me going off of the main point of this post, then just bear with me, I'll find my way back.

So, my body apparently is going through a bit of a rough patch. I am on Antibiotics for UTI (Urinary Tract Infection) and while this shouldn't really come to a surprise to me, I get UTIs from time to time. What makes this special is that my body in the past has rejected the antibiotics they have me on. It violently rejects it, I'm talking spring cleaning kind of rejection. The rejection where you spend half the night on the toilet. Anyways, in order for me to take this antibiotic I have to take half of another pill which apparently is forcing my body to accept the antibiotic. We've tried seeing if we could go to another one, but apparently this antibiotic is the only one that can defeat the infection.

Then after we're done with the UTI, there's also a stomach virus that I have that is left untreated will cause ulcer in the first part of my Small Intestine. So, that's 3 medication in 2 weeks period. Not to mention the flu medication I had to take before I got the UTI to get rid of the flu. I'm not even going to talk about the meds my brother is on due to his health concerns.

Sometimes I wonder if we're being over medicated. I mean it seems like we got a pill for everything now. You're depressed, take a pill. Tired of your PMS, take a pill. Want to dull your senses, take several pills. Sometimes I wonder if there are simpler ways of doing things, like Alternative medicines and perhaps actually changing our eating habits and living habits for the better so we wouldn't be so dependent on Meds. What do you guys think?

That wasn't so bad, I'm pretty good at posting while on a medicated high.

My concern regards the right-wing cultural assault on progress .... to wit, a return to intercessory prayer and the manipulation of the four humors, what with their overt and specific attacks on science.
http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/hippocrates/a/hippocraticmeds.htm

That wasn't so bad, I'm pretty good at posting while on a medicated high.
I suspect you have a new group of common-interest friends around here. :p

I would maybe suggest Tahitian Noni...:)

My concern regards the right-wing cultural assault on progress .... to wit, a return to intercessory prayer and the manipulation of the four humors, what with their overt and specific attacks on science.
http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/hippocrates/a/hippocraticmeds.htm

I am not suggesting we turn the dial back on medical progress, not at all. The healing through prayers and the four biles are just as bad as prescribing too much Meds. All I'm suggesting is that we find a balance between medication, and non medication, alternative means to helping our body etc.

Here's my question. Why should I not take a pill if I have a headache, if it makes me feel better? Why should I not take a pill if I am depressed, if it makes me feel better? Why should I not use medication if the result is it makes me feel better?

You went on this little winge on "over medication" but did not actually explain what's wrong with taking medication that makes you feel better.

Here's my question. Why should I not take a pill if I have a headache, if it makes me feel better? Why should I not take a pill if I am depressed, if it makes me feel better? Why should I not use medication if the result is it makes me feel better?

You went on this little winge on "over medication" but did not actually explain what's wrong with taking medication that makes you feel better.

Because you become weak, dependent,and develop resistance. Take your headache example. Most headache's are annoying, but you can live through them. If you give in take advil, the next time you get a headache it is worse, so you take more advil, and so on. (my experience anyway). I've had headaches so bad I wanted to scream and break things. Guess what? I either took a shower, went to sleep, or gritted my teeth and soldiered through it. And you know what? It goes away! :eek:

If you start relying on medicine for all the small things, what are you going to do if you can't get it?

Just grin and bear it.

Because you become weak, dependent,and develop resistance. Take your headache example. Most headache's are annoying, but you can live through them. If you give in take advil, the next time you get a headache it is worse, so you take more advil, and so on. (my experience anyway).


Complete the following sentence for me.

"You may find proof of my assertions at _________ "

I've had headaches so bad I wanted to scream and break things. Guess what? I either took a shower, went to sleep, or gritted my teeth and soldiered through it. And you know what? It goes away! :eek:

And why exactly should I suffer through that when I don't have to? What possible reason do I have for what I can only describe as an overdeveloped sense of machismo and faux "manliness" where I somehow have to accept pain when I have no reason to.

Good for you that you "gritted your teeth and soldiered through it". But why the fuck should I?

Other than your...laughable and entirely misinformed idea that you somehow develop "resistance" to advil...

If you start relying on medicine for all the small things, what are you going to do if you can't get it?

Go to the 24 hour CVS down the road, which was there last week, was there yesterday, was there today, will be there tomorrow, will be there next month, will be there next year, will always be there.

And if for some reason I CAN'T get it, THEN I suck it up and deal with it. But why the fuck should I when I have absolutly no reason to?

Just grin and bear it.

No, fuck that.

Over medicated? God no! I need more medication!

I am not suggesting we turn the dial back on medical progress, not at all. The healing through prayers and the four biles are just as bad as prescribing too much Meds. All I'm suggesting is that we find a balance between medication, and non medication, alternative means to helping our body etc.
I wasn't accusing you of it :)
I agree with you in the general sense.
I'm (hang on for a surprise) a bit on the periphery of society as far as medication goes. I almost never take anything for ANYTHING, and i somewhat appreciate the Hormetic Principle.
The only drugs i actually LIKED enough to say as much was Propovol, psilocybin and some other pill that i didn't know the name of when i was in 4th grade.
I really, REALLY advocate exercise and self-control over taking drugs for most things. MOST things. :p

was hit by a forklift back in July. Was taking Skelaxin and Aleeve. Got mild stomach bleeding. Dropped Aleeve and my doc switched me to Tramadol. Skelaxin + Tramadol = ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Now I'm just taking Skelaxin on an as-needed basis, ad I take basic tylenol for pain relief. Yup, I still hurt. **** Workers Comp. They decided the LOWER back pain wasn't caused by being hit by a ******* forklift, so no treatment. **** bean-counting fourth-party payers. MY doctor actually has MY best interest in mind because I PAY him. The urgent care docs WC sent me to work for WC. **** the ******* bureaucratic **************!!!!!

Complete the following sentence for me.

"You may find proof of my assertions at _________ "


Well that's been my experience. If I take advil, usually was ibuprofin (sp) but they are the same, then my next headache is worse.


And why exactly should I suffer through that when I don't have to? What possible reason do I have for what I can only describe as an overdeveloped sense of machismo and faux "manliness" where I somehow have to accept pain when I have no reason to.

Good for you that you "gritted your teeth and soldiered through it". But why the fuck should I?

Other than your...laughable and entirely misinformed idea that you somehow develop "resistance" to advil...


Go to the 24 hour CVS down the road, which was there last week, was there yesterday, was there today, will be there tomorrow, will be there next month, will be there next year, will always be there.

And if for some reason I CAN'T get it, THEN I suck it up and deal with it. But why the fuck should I when I have absolutly no reason to?

No, fuck that.

Because you can? Test your limits? Increase your will power? Not being a wimp about it? Just some ideas.

If you have something really wrong with you, then take meds if you want. But if its smalls stuff? Suck it up!

Over medicated? God no! I need more medication!
If you're looking for an argument, you've come to the wrong place.
>.>
<.<

was hit by a forklift back in July. Was taking Skelaxin and Aleeve. Got mild stomach bleeding. Dropped Aleeve and my doc switched me to Tramadol. Skelaxin + Tramadol = ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Now I'm just taking Skelaxin on an as-needed basis, ad I take basic tylenol for pain relief. Yup, I still hurt. **** Workers Comp. They decided the LOWER back pain wasn't caused by being hit by a ******* forklift, so no treatment. **** bean-counting fourth-party payers. MY doctor actually has MY best interest in mind because I PAY him. The urgent care docs WC sent me to work for WC. **** the ******* bureaucratic **************!!!!!
That sucks. Good luck with that.

Well that's been my experience.

So...you have absolutly no proof of your claims?

Figured

Because you can?

I can do a lot of things. I can do a lot of cocain and stop my heart. I can jump off the roof of my building. I can walk into traffic. I can take a gun and blow my brains out. I can take that gun and blow someone elses brains out.

The mere fact that I can do something is of no relevance. There's a whole lot of shit I can do. That doesn't make it a good idea.

Test your limits?

Why the fuck would I want to know, or care? I'm quite sure I could endure a headache. In fact, being a migraine sufferer, I endure several. I know what I can endure.

The question is why the fuck should I?

Increase your will power?

Again, that doesn't in any way answer the question, why should I endure pain when I don't have to, what possible benefit does this give me? What possible motivation would I have for this? Increase my willpower? What nonsense is that, why would I ever need to increase my ability to withstand a headache. I know I can. I don't want to.

So I don't.

Not being a wimp about it?

Again, why the fuck should I endure pain if I don't have to? To "not be a wimp"? What the fuck does that mean? Is there some character virtue for needlessly, senslessly, and for no benefit, enduring pain, when there is no reason not to?

No, that's not "character building". That's not "being tough". That's being dumb If something hurts, I make it stop hurting. To somehow expect there is some virtue in enduring pain for no reason is not only hoplessly archaic, it's just plain stupid.


Just some ideas.

Bad ones.

REALLY bad ones.

But if its smalls stuff? Suck it up!

No.

I should add, upon review of Trollgaard and Neo Art's interaction, that i suffered from the very real medical condition of migraines (not the sugared up mild distraction version that so many people bandy about these days), where i literally banged my fucking skull on the concrete floor until i passed out several times (and because that pain felt BETTER) as a kid, for about 6 years. I grew out of it, and i'm apparently very lucky for having done so (my aunt and my little sister both suffered from them also).
It meant a good 3 hours or so were lost to it whenever it would happen, which would be every four days or so.
If there were a medication that could've moderated it just a smidge at the time, i would very likely have taken it.
I also look at every pain i've had since as considerably less difficult to deal with since ... when i passed my first kidney stone, i worked the entire day as i passed it. The second time i had a less than 1-in-10 chance of passing it on my own with out severe internal damage, and that's when i tried propovol. Still wasn't anywhere near as bad as migraines.
Nor the ulcer i got in 7th grade.
Nor any bones being broken or nerves being tweaked from kumite and/or accidents.

I hate drugs with a passion even the legal type. When they yanked my Wisdom teeth(they didn't make any more wise) I ended up taking two advil when the pain got to be too much..flushed all the percoset they gave me down the toilet though once the pain went away. Didn't need them...should not have taken the advil either...meh

Here's my question. Why should I not take a pill if I have a headache, if it makes me feel better? Why should I not take a pill if I am depressed, if it makes me feel better? Why should I not use medication if the result is it makes me feel better?

You went on this little winge on "over medication" but did not actually explain what's wrong with taking medication that makes you feel better.


Actually, sometimes taking a pill for a headache can be worse for you, especially if you take them on a regular basis. You can actually get something called a "rebound headache."

As for myself, I've suffered chronic daily headaches and severe migraines for years, and nothing works. Nothing. Pain medications, preventatives, alternative/herbal medications, I've tried a lot of stuff. It's actually gotten to the point where Advil and Tylenol won't work on muscle aches and the like because I've taken too much of them over the years. So in some cases, pills are pretty much pointless.

Actually, sometimes taking a pill for a headache can be worse for you, especially if you take them on a regular basis. You can actually get something called a "rebound headache."


You will note I did say "if"

I don't endorse anyone taking mind altering drugs unless directly supervised by someone willing to take the blame if they go psychotic on them.

I've always disagreed with the way kids are over medicated on psych meds these days. (even though that's not exactly what we're talking about.)
But, I currently have a horrid stomach ache due to Zoloft, so it's on my mind.
Anyhow, it's pretty horible where I live. Recently I've noticed jsut about everyone I know has a bipolar diagnosis and is on at least 400 miligrams of seroquel. Maybe it's just the people I know, but I find it rather bothersome.

I've always disagreed with the way kids are over medicated on psych meds these days. (even though that's not exactly what we're talking about.)
But, I currently have a horrid stomach ache due to Zoloft, so it's on my mind.
Anyhow, it's pretty horible where I live. Recently I've noticed jsut about everyone I know has a bipolar diagnosis and is on at least 400 miligrams of seroquel. Maybe it's just the people I know, but I find it rather bothersome.

I don't endorse anyone taking mind altering drugs unless directly supervised by someone willing to take the blame if they go psychotic on them.

That's funny, "mind altering drugs".

Ever have caffein? How about sugar?

I hate drugs with a passion even the legal type. When they yanked my Wisdom teeth(they didn't make any more wise) I ended up taking two advil when the pain got to be too much..flushed all the percoset they gave me down the toilet though once the pain went away. Didn't need them...should not have taken the advil either...meh
Should've given the percoset to Arduu. He needs to be a bit more stable.

As for myself, I've suffered chronic daily headaches and severe migraines for years, and nothing works. Nothing. Pain medications, preventatives, alternative/herbal medications, I've tried a lot of stuff.
This sounds weird, i admit. But when i started getting the soft ringing and my focus felt like it was going to change, i'd drink a glass and a half of Tang. I might be wrong, but that seemed like the only thing that helped at all (if i was able to do anything about it)
*shrug*

I should add, upon review of Trollgaard and Neo Art's interaction, that i suffered from the very real medical condition of migraines (not the sugared up mild distraction version that so many people bandy about these days), where i literally banged my fucking skull on the concrete floor until i passed out several times (and because that pain felt BETTER) as a kid, for about 6 years.

Migraines are absolutely no joke. I never suffered from headaches as a kid/teen (no more than most people, the occasional tension headache) and then suddenly developed intense, agonizing headaches one summer that started in the morning and got progressively worse until I could barely think. I went to two doctors about them; both told me they were caused by stress, prescribed me pain killers that made me vomit, and sent me on my way.

Finally, after a month or so of this agony I saw a doctor who many people had recommended. He examined me thoroughly and sent me immediately to the hospital for an MRI and EEG. It turned out that I had a seizure disorder, for which I am now properly medicated. The headaches disappeared and the seizures are under control (I had not had a seizure in the presence of another person until after the diagnosis, so I didn't know I was having them).

In summation: PROPER medication = a wonderful thing.

You will note I did say "if"

Yes, you did say "if." But I'm saying that it's easy to over-medicate without even meaning to.

This sounds weird, i admit. But when i started getting the soft ringing and my focus felt like it was going to change, i'd drink a glass and a half of Tang. I might be wrong, but that seemed like the only thing that helped at all (if i was able to do anything about it)
*shrug*

For a while, something with sugar or caffeine would help, but now not even that works. You could say I'm completely at a loss.

I don't endorse anyone taking mind altering drugs unless directly supervised by someone willing to take the blame if they go psychotic on them.

Do you think Lydia would take the blame inbetween bangs while he was on the slope?
He also, apparently, needs to be kept away from phones.

So...you have absolutly no proof of your claims?

Figured



I can do a lot of things. I can do a lot of cocain and stop my heart. I can jump off the roof of my building. I can walk into traffic. I can take a gun and blow my brains out. I can take that gun and blow someone elses brains out.

The mere fact that I can do something is of no relevance. There's a whole lot of shit I can do. That doesn't make it a good idea.



Why the fuck would I want to know, or care? I'm quite sure I could endure a headache. In fact, being a migraine sufferer, I endure several. I know what I can endure.

The question is why the fuck should I?



Again, that doesn't in any way answer the question, why should I endure pain when I don't have to, what possible benefit does this give me? What possible motivation would I have for this? Increase my willpower? What nonsense is that, why would I ever need to increase my ability to withstand a headache. I know I can. I don't want to.

So I don't.



Again, why the fuck should I endure pain if I don't have to? To "not be a wimp"? What the fuck does that mean? Is there some character virtue for needlessly, senslessly, and for no benefit, enduring pain, when there is no reason not to?

No, that's not "character building". That's not "being tough". That's being dumb If something hurts, I make it stop hurting. To somehow expect there is some virtue in enduring pain for no reason is not only hoplessly archaic, it's just plain stupid.




Bad ones.

REALLY bad ones.



No.

Fuck man, do be such a jerk about it. If you simply say," I don't think those are the best reasons" or something like that I'll respond with "Fair enough" (to each his own, right?), but now you've pissed me off.

Why the fuck didn't you say you had fucking migrains in the first place? If you have migraines, take god damned medication if you want. Migrains suck-they aren't normal headaches (how the fuck do people get headaches anyway?!).

Are you a man? I ask this because it has a huge impact, and would shed light on where your viewpoint is coming from.

The social norms that I know are that men don't show pain, and don't take help. We soldier through pain, and get things done ourselves.

Willpower is always good to increase. You won't be easily led astray by others, and it can get you through some tough times.

Knowing your limits is always good,so you don't fucking get hurt. Expanding your limits is good, too.

And ignoring and soldiering through pain IS tough. If you soldier through the small pain, you'll be better able to deal with big pain. Fucking simple.

Fuck man, do be such a jerk about it. If you simply say," I don't think those are the best reasons" or something like that I'll respond with "Fair enough" (to each his own, right?),

They weren't just "not the best reasons". They were very, very bad reasons. And I don't mince my words.

but now you've pissed me off.

Oh no....I'm shaking. A random guy on the internet is mad at me, whatever shall I do....:rolleyes:

Why the fuck didn't you say you had fucking migrains in the first place?

Because I don't feel like telling you or other strangers my medical history unless and until I feel like it? What makes you think you're entitled to know?

If you have migraines, take god damned medication if you want. Migrains suck-they aren't normal headaches (how the fuck do people get headaches anyway?!).

OHHH I see now, it's ok to take medication, as long as it reaches a level of pain you find acceptable. headaches no, migraines yes, because you, Mr. Random-Guy-On-The-Internet have decided that headaches are one side of the line, migraines another, that it's acceptable.

I'm sorry Mr. Random-Guy-On-The-Internet, but I don't really accept your authority on what is an "acceptable" level of pain to take medication for. The fact that you even draw that line at some arbitrary point just shows the hypocracy of your position.

Are you a man? I ask this because it has a huge impact

The fact that you think it has, or should have, any relevance what so ever just basically proves my point about you.

The social norms that I know are that men don't show pain, and don't take help. We soldier through pain, and get things done ourselves.

Then the society you find yourself in is primitive and backwards, and not something I want any part in propogating.

I don't "soldier through pain". I don't "grit my teeth and suck it up". Why the fuck should I? I'm not a fucking caveman. I don't go out into the woods and hunt my prey. I'm a lawyer. I wear a suit and sit at a desk. And if shit hurts I make it stop hurting.

Why should I do any different under this masochistic, stoic bullshit that to "be a man" I have to accept pain for no good reason.

Willpower is always good to increase. You won't be easily led astray by others, and it can get you through some tough times.

How exactly is putting up with a headache going to make me less gullible?

Strike one.

Knowing your limits is always good,so you don't fucking get hurt.

So somehow because I take an advil for my headache I might get hurt later?

Strike two.

Expanding your limits is good, too.

Why would I in any way want to expand my ability to withstand physical discomfort?

I'll call this one a hard shot passed the foul line.

And toughing out pain IS tough. If you soldier through the small pain, you'll be better able to deal with big pain. Fucking simple.

Why would I want to "deal with big pain"? There is medication for that too. Swing and a miss, yer outta here.

I've always disagreed with the way kids are over medicated on psych meds these days. (even though that's not exactly what we're talking about.)
But, I currently have a horrid stomach ache due to Zoloft, so it's on my mind.
Anyhow, it's pretty horible where I live. Recently I've noticed jsut about everyone I know has a bipolar diagnosis and is on at least 400 miligrams of seroquel. Maybe it's just the people I know, but I find it rather bothersome.

Most medications have side effects that some percentage of the population experiences. Zoloft is better than many SSRIs in minimizing side effects. Taking pills does make me nauseous at times, although some of that is likely a placebo effect because of associations I have with swallowing pills.

That said, a stomach ache is pretty mild compared to, you know, constant paralyzing depression.

How exactly is it "bothersome" to you if people you know are on seroquel?

How exactly is putting up with a headache going to make me less gullible?


Apparently you're just supposed to take Mr. Random-Guy-On-the-Internet's word for it. Ironical.

Apparently you're just supposed to take Mr. Random-Guy-On-the-Internet's word for it. Ironical.

Hah, quite.

Because most everyone I know sleeps about 14 hours a night because of it.
I used to be on it myself, back when I was twelve, and I had the same experience. Now I'm not even on a modd stabalizer and am perfectly fine.
I know plenty of kids who fake symptoms of bipolar to get seroquel, too, and the doctors don't notice.
And yes, I'll completely live with my Zoloft stomach aches because it's much better than the side affects of Paxil.

I know that caffeine gets used a lot for headache regulation (too much/too little) these days, and i notice it happens in me (since i would use the stimulant aspect to clear my head in the morning), but i have only had two migraines since - although suppressed quite a bit, they had most of the same conditions and felt like they covered the same areas. I slept 'em off.
I have *no* idea why the Tang worked (as much as it did). I'm not even sure what's actually in Tang, so i can't (as of yet) isolate anything in it that would be of much use.
There was a thread a little while back that dealt with migraines, though, and someone brought up what appeared to be something that worked.

Some migraines it is theorized are brought about by an electrolyte imbalance, perhaps the tang did something about that....

For a while, something with sugar or caffeine would help, but now not even that works. You could say I'm completely at a loss.

I know that caffeine gets used a lot for headache regulation (too much/too little) these days, and i notice it happens in me (since i would use the stimulant aspect to clear my head in the morning), but i have only had two migraines since - although suppressed quite a bit, they had most of the same conditions and felt like they covered the same areas. I slept 'em off.
I have *no* idea why the Tang worked (as much as it did). I'm not even sure what's actually in Tang, so i can't (as of yet) isolate anything in it that would be of much use.
There was a thread a little while back that dealt with migraines, though, and someone brought up what appeared to be something that worked.

Oh, a lawyer.

That explains a lot...

I really don't fucking care if you take meds all the time. I'll just think you as a poor fool lining the pockets of drug companies.

You think your so sophisticated and above people who hold other views don't you? Your so polished and evolved, eh?

And even if my views are backwards, so the fuck what? They work, and have worked.

You ever hear about that hiker who cut off his hand (or lower arm) so he could live? If you were able to deal with pain you could do that, and live. (he was trapped under a boulder or something like that). But, alas, you turn to advil for everything! Guess you'd be stuck!

I really don't fucking care if you take meds all the time. I'll just think you as a poor fool lining the pockets of drug companies.


Very sorry, but what about if healthcare is free?

Oh, a lawyer.

That explains a lot...

I really don't fucking care if you take meds all the time. I'll just think you as a poor fool lining the pockets of drug companies.

You think your so sophisticated and above people who hold other views don't you? Your so polished and evolved, eh?

And even if my views are backwards, so the fuck what? They work, and have worked.

You ever hear about that hiker who cut off his hand (or lower arm) so he could live? If you were able to deal with pain you could do that, and live. (he was trapped under a boulder or something like that). But, alas, you turn to advil for everything! Guess you'd be stuck!

I'm not a lawyer, but I've got to say, I don't think excessive cursing and improper punctuation strengthen your arguments.

I'm also betting that if that hiker had been traveling with a first-aid kit supplied with morphine he would have used it. Just because you choose NOT to endure pain doesn't mean you can't. Giving birth is incredibly painful, I've been told, and many women survive that. That doesn't mean they all go around with broken arms or ulcers saying, "No, no medication for me, thanks. I'm okay, I've given birth, after all!"

I'm curious as to why you seem to see pain as such an important experience. There is a difference betwen learning to live with those discomforts that can not be helped and suffering needlessly when cures are readily and safely available. Maybe it's just a difference in philosophy... I don't think pain is anything other than your body's way of telling you that something's wrong, and it seems strange to ignore that.

Very sorry, but what about if healthcare is free?

Its never free. Universal health care comes out of your paycheck, to pay for other people, like Neo Art, apparently, who would milk the system for everything it can give.

Sometimes I wonder if we're being over medicated. I mean it seems like we got a pill for everything now. You're depressed, take a pill. Tired of your PMS, take a pill. Want to dull your senses, take several pills. Sometimes I wonder if there are simpler ways of doing things, like Alternative medicines and perhaps actually changing our eating habits and living habits for the better so we wouldn't be so dependent on Meds. What do you guys think?

That wasn't so bad, I'm pretty good at posting while on a medicated high.

There are several separate issues here: antibiotic misuse, poor diagnosis and treatment of psychiatric disorders, and balancing issues.

Antibiotic misuse, IMHO, is the worst. Not only are they overprescribed, they are being misused in livestock. Both of those abuses have serious negative health impacts for the general population.

Psychiatric disorders are diagnosed much to subjectively. And doctors tend to be too lax in psychiatric prescribing medications.

And balancing issues. One example is balancing modern lifestyles with evolved conditions. The PMS issue you listed is one of these. Regular PMS is a relatively new phenomenon, as I understand it. For most of human history, women's periods were suppresed by regular pregnancies and breast feeding. Now, most women don't spend most of their lives in these conditions. So, PMS is actually a rather un-natural condition. It is actually closer to natural conditions for a woman to take period suppressing birthcontrol.

http://gynob.com/rad.htm

I'm not a lawyer, but I've got to say, I don't think excessive cursing and improper punctuation strengthen your arguments.

I'm also betting that if that hiker had been traveling with a first-aid kit supplied with morphine he would have used it. Just because you choose NOT to endure pain doesn't mean you can't. Giving birth is incredibly painful, I've been told, and many women survive that. That doesn't mean they all go around with broken arms or ulcers saying, "No, no medication for me, thanks. I'm okay, I've given birth, after all!"

I'm curious as to why you seem to see pain as such an important experience. There is a difference betwen learning to live with those discomforts that can not be helped and suffering needlessly when cures are readily and safely available. Maybe it's just a difference in philosophy... I don't think pain is anything other than your body's way of telling you that something's wrong, and it seems strange to ignore that.

It is about 4AM where I am, so I'm tired. My self control is waning. Plus, I do cuss when I'm mad.

Maye the hiker would have, but it wasn't there. He was still able to deal with the pain and do what needed doing.

If you are in pain, something is usually wrong. However, being able to function while under great pain can save your live. I'm thinking of survival situations, soldiers, fireman, policeman, sports, etc. Maybe not everyday situations, but it still helpful, in my opinion, to be able to deal with pain.

Plus, I'm just revolted by the amount of medication some people I know take.

Like Hanoi Rocks says it, Life´s a better high. If the pills help you, just take them. If they don´t, then don´t take them. If you feel a bit high, is it really that bad? :p Those pills are there to help, and shifting your medication to alternative ones is the worst thing to do. They help absolutely nothing. And often alternative medication makes your condition worse, as it usually may include something not so healthy stuff.

Sometimes the medication is worse than the illness. ABout five years ago, when I was first diagnosed with ADD, my psychiatrist also diagnosed me with mild depression(don't they always?) and prescribed an antidepressant that for some bizzare reason made it almost impossible for me to achieve orgasm. I was more depressed than ever! :p

A Warning:

Sometimes I wonder if we're being over medicated. I mean it seems like we got a pill for everything now. You're depressed, take a pill. Tired of your PMS, take a pill. Want to dull your senses, take several pills. Sometimes I wonder if there are simpler ways of doing things, like Alternative medicines and perhaps actually changing our eating habits and living habits for the better so we wouldn't be so dependent on Meds. What do you guys think?



absolutly i recenly heared that made sure lab rat can get a cold so they can find a cure for that

let me tell you guy's something what deceases kills people in africa? aids and that other thing (forgot the english word i know the dutch diaree) and what do we die of in western countries
flu, cancer, and lost of other things next thing we know we will die of a cold

why is this?
in africa they wash thier hands with mud
there are lots of bacteria's in mud but not too much thus the imunity system stay's active eredicating those bacteria here we wash our hands with bacteria killing soap before every single meal (in worst cases) meaning the imunety system gets inactive because our health and medical stuff kills the bacteria's but when we do get infected there is nothing that can stop those deceases our body should but it doesn't know what to do because it has never been infected by harmless amounts of bacteria i mean common a medication aganst a cold? are we that WEAK i would NEVER take such a medication i would go to work and/or school while having a cold but i will not take a medicene against a simple cold nor against a simple flu (if its a very bad flu like the mutated one that was on the lose not too long ago then its a diffirent story)

like alway's we need to find the balance between hygiene and being dirty
receiving threatment or let it get over by the body in africa there is no threatment that is bad in westren countries tehre is TOO much threatment and i know that those damned huge money makers would rather have all healthy people working for them that if they get ill with a cold get a threatment but i'm not going to sacrifice my live for those basterds!ofcourse they want me healthy to work but they don't care if i'm too healthy so that if an epedemic or pandemic breakout i'm good as dead but i won't fall for that

medication is importand but ONLY if an illness REALLY life taking and not something like a small flu or a cold i mean common humans are already weak don't make us even weaker please before its even saver to life in africa then in an westren country

i know i'm not a medical specialist so i don't know every single statistic but this is how it looks like form my point of view

Sometimes the medication is worse than the illness. ABout five years ago, when I was first diagnosed with ADD, my psychiatrist also diagnosed me with mild depression(don't they always?) and prescribed an antidepressant that for some bizzare reason made it almost impossible for me to achieve orgasm. I was more depressed than ever! :p

Bizarre but VERY common. This is one of the most common complaints about SSRIs, and it can be a dealbreaker. It depends on how severe the side effects are and, of course, how severe the depression is. Since I've been diagnosed with dysthymia and episodes of clinical depression (which saps me of any libido anyway), it's not much of a choice.

Wellbutrin is supposed to help with that, actually, but alas, it's counter-indicated for seizure medications and I is epileptic.

Sometimes the medication is worse than the illness. ABout five years ago, when I was first diagnosed with ADD, my psychiatrist also diagnosed me with mild depression(don't they always?) and prescribed an antidepressant that for some bizzare reason made it almost impossible for me to achieve orgasm. I was more depressed than ever! :p

It's when you have a reaction to medication that is treating the symptoms of the side-affects of some other medication that you know you've got problems :p

As for the pain endurance thing appearing in several posts - Regular exposure to pain has been shown to shrink parts of the brain (hippocampus I think) and cause depression. Is that character building?

Pfft, depression.

That's where willpower comes in handy.

Oh, it's my favorite argument, the Depression and Other Psychiatric Disorders Don't Exist Tom Cruise School of Psychiatry.

As someone who's attempted suicide, I could tell you that will power has nothing to do with depression... but you'd just say I didn't have enough will power. It's funny how some people refuse to believe depression is real. I've never heard voices, but I don't doubt that schizophrenia is real. But they probably don't have enough will power to stop hallucinating, the lazy bastards!

It's when you have a reaction to medication that is treating the symptoms of the side-affects of some other medication that you know you've got problems :p

As for the pain endurance thing appearing in several posts - Regular exposure to pain has been shown to shrink parts of the brain (hippocampus I think) and cause depression. Is that character building?

Pfft, depression.

That's where willpower comes in handy.

You went on this little winge on "over medication" but did not actually explain what's wrong with taking medication that makes you feel better.

Taking antibiotics when it's unnecessary can result in resistant bacteria, which is really really bad. This is probably the best reason against taking to much antibiotics.
There is also the problem of 'inventing' diseases. If you can convince the public that something is a disease or increases your risk to a disease and you have a medication for it you can make a lot of money, even though people otherwise wouldn't have thought about taking medication for it. It might be good to be suspicious against most marketing for medication or 'free tests' or 'awareness-weeks' etc. You should also realize that doctors get tons of marketing, often concealed as 'information' and that they can't know all research about every disease which can cause them to be misled. Especially if this is all combined it can result in much medication being prescribed without good reasons. But this is probably a better argument against medicalization than against taking to much medication.
Taking to much medication might also increase the price for people who really need it. If you have some kind of universal health care or something similar, you might also waste valuable resources by taking unnecessary medication.
It might also make you more dependent on medication for every small ailment.
You should also consider that taking medication most of the time isn't healthy. Some medicines place a high burden on your liver for instance. So you must be sure that in the long run you don't do more harm than good.
So if you make sure that you don't create resistant bacteria, don't take medication (or food supplements etc) for 'imagined' diseases, don't waste resources, don't become dependant and don't ruin your health I don't see why you shouldn't take medication against anything if it makes you feel better.

There must be other reasons, but I just survived 15 hours in a bus so I might not be thinking to clear.

Pfft, depression.

That's where willpower comes in handy.

You didn't mention the noticeable changes to brain structure. Chronic pain endurance alter the brain! And not in a good way.

There must be other reasons, but I just survived 15 hours in a bus so I might not be thinking to clear.

You could probably take something for that ;)

I think it depends on how much you're asking for medication. I rarely, if ever, ask for it (which is why 10 mg of Zyrtec can have me literally not knowing where my home is when I'm half a block away*), but I do have friends who request prescriptions for every little cough. 'Tis troublesome.

*There's a story here. TG me and I shall share.

1) To those who think there is no downside to taking lots of meds, I think it is pretty well documented that over-use of antibiotics has facilitated the growth and spread of drug-resistant bacterial diseases, such as tuberculosis, strep, and others (which bug is it that mutated into that flesh-eating thing?).

2) In addition, taking lots of meds for different things all at the same time significantly increases one's risk of accidental poisoning or overdose. This is especially true if one is medicating oneself only to "feel better." See recent news about Heath Ledger, for example.

3) I also vehemently oppose the medication of children for things that are not actually illnesses. I do not care what some authorities say -- only the most extreme cases of ADD need to be medicated. The majority of ADD kids can be dealt with by extra attention and some behavior/environment modification. I agree with the medical experts who say that it is not healthy for children to be heavily medicated to control their brain chemistry while their brains are still developing. I also cannot help but notice that the majority of authorities who advocate medicating children to control their behavior are parties with a vested interest in doing so -- the schools who do not want to spend the time and money to deal with difficult individual students, and the pharmaceutical companies who sell the drugs we take.

4) It is my opinion that, in the US, people demanding prescription meds for things that either could be ignored or treated with OTC or homeopathic remedies (because they are not actually illnesses, like menopause, heartburn, or an occasionally limp dick; I mean really, guys, you don't need Viagra if you're only problem is that you're drunk, tired, or 70 years old), is a significant contributing factor to the outrageous costs of healthcare and insurance.

5) It is also my opinion that it is unethical to market prescription drugs directly to the lay public, who do not have either the expertise or the full information to make a truly informed decision about whether they need a med. Experts on health insurance and medical practice in the US increasingly report that doctors complain of patients walking in and demanding Medication X, regardless of whether it is contra-indicated for them, leading to an increase in "doctor shopping" to find one who will dispense the desired pill without a fight. I wish pharmaceuticals would be banned from that kind of advertising.

6) As for my own experience, I have gotten migraines most of my life. They run in my family - almost all of us on my mother's side get them. Mine are triggered by changes in air pressure and by certain flashing light/shadow patterns (I have lots of "fun" in spring, fall, while storm lines are passing overhead, and while driving at about 4pm on sunny days). I learned the best way to treat my migraines long before there were any prescription meds for migraine. I take 600mg of ibuprofen (3 Advils) to break the pain and then go to bed for two hours. It does the trick. I do not need more. Other people get it far worse than I do, so I leave the scrips to them.

I also have the beginning of arthritis (runs in the family) but not rheumatoid arthritis, so I just treat my "aches and pains" with ibuprofen and yoga.

My blood pressure is unstable (also runs in the family), but mine responds drastically to changes in my stress level, so I will continue controlling it with diet, exercise and relaxation techniques before resorting to medications.

A few months ago, I got bitten in the hand by a feral cat (don't ask). I administered immediate first aid myself -- thorough and repeated cleaning with water, soap, a baking soda scrub, and Neosporin (topical antibiotic) over several days. I also got a tetanus shot, started the rabies shot series (which I interrupted because it turned out the cat was not a rabies risk), and got a prescription for five doses of an antibiotic. That was the first time I had been to a doctor in over 10 years, and it was the first prescription I had to get filled in over 25 years.

I do not consider myself a better or smarter person for avoiding unnecessary medication like that. I only consider myself very lucky to be healthy enough that medication IS unnecessary for me. I do not consider it a terrible thing to suffer occasional discomforts like headaches, gas, joint or muscle pain or menstrual cramps, and I don't consider getting older or being female to be things I need treatment for. Right now, my medicine cabinet contains ibuprofen, Neosporin, and an OTC decongestant left over from my last flu. That's it. Not including my health insurance, which I pay for myself since I'm self-employed, I think I spend an average of about $20 per year on medicines. I wish more people would be able to tell the difference between being really sick or in serious pain and just not feeling as well as they'd like to at a given moment. They might experience similar financial savings - as well as avoiding the stress (and the need to treat the stress) of dealing with medical and insurance bureaucracies.

I get really sad when I hear people talking about how important it is for them to "feel better" all the time. My grandmother was like that -- always in search of the magic drug combination that would make her feel great, up, perfect. In other words, she was a scrip junkie. She nearly killed herself by doctor shopping and mixing meds. Thankfully, she finally ended up with a doctor who understood her state of mind and put an end to her doctor shopping by dealing with the other doctors behind her back. He watched her like a hawk, like an outpatient rehab program that lasted the rest of her life. Was there anything really wrong with my grandmother? Yeah -- migraines, arthritis and high blood pressure, but they were all at the same level as mine until she got very old, and in truth she did not need more than two regular medications, not the 10+ different scrip and OTC pills she liked to keep in stock.

A Warning:I am currently pretty much high and drowsy right now due to a medication that I am taking, so if any part of my post has me going off of the main point of this post, then just bear with me, I'll find my way back.

So, my body apparently is going through a bit of a rough patch. I am on Antibiotics for UTI (Urinary Tract Infection) and while this shouldn't really come to a surprise to me, I get UTIs from time to time. What makes this special is that my body in the past has rejected the antibiotics they have me on. It violently rejects it, I'm talking spring cleaning kind of rejection. The rejection where you spend half the night on the toilet. Anyways, in order for me to take this antibiotic I have to take half of another pill which apparently is forcing my body to accept the antibiotic. We've tried seeing if we could go to another one, but apparently this antibiotic is the only one that can defeat the infection.

Then after we're done with the UTI, there's also a stomach virus that I have that is left untreated will cause ulcer in the first part of my Small Intestine. So, that's 3 medication in 2 weeks period. Not to mention the flu medication I had to take before I got the UTI to get rid of the flu. I'm not even going to talk about the meds my brother is on due to his health concerns.

Sometimes I wonder if we're being over medicated. I mean it seems like we got a pill for everything now. You're depressed, take a pill. Tired of your PMS, take a pill. Want to dull your senses, take several pills. Sometimes I wonder if there are simpler ways of doing things, like Alternative medicines and perhaps actually changing our eating habits and living habits for the better so we wouldn't be so dependent on Meds. What do you guys think?

That wasn't so bad, I'm pretty good at posting while on a medicated high.

Good luck with that, i'm not very good with health advice other than the usual stuff.

But i can tell you if i'm feeling poorly, i try to take my mind off it.
Ever noticed time flies by when you're doing something you enjoy, but if you're bored or in pain time seems to drag by? (well it does for me) I try to distract myself with games, revision.
I know one thing i like is boiled water with a little lemon juice and some maple syrup, it's a whole host of new sensations that should hopefully take some pain away.
I guess fresh air is good advice. That or watching comedy shows pass the time nicely.

I doubt it. Taking appropriate medication, for a treatable condition, is only common sense. If you have a headache, sometimes an aspirin (or whatever the brand name is where you live) is in fact the best cure. Of course, that doesn't mean drinking water, sleeping, or exercising are inferior solutions, if they work just as well.

Overmedication does occur, however -- especially for treating perceived mental conditions. I think that is partly a symptom of fashion: it is "in" to be able to say something is wrong with you. That, combined with greater advances in medicine that have allowed doctors to identify former "personality defects" as actual, treatable disorders, has led to the last few decades' obsession with pills.

You can skip this paragraph, as it deals with some boring parts of my own life story that, for some reason, I feel impelled to share even though nobody really cares about it. Anyway, here goes: At the age of fourteen I was diagnosed with severe clinical depression but, on the insistence of my parents, placed only on a mild dose of medication. Now, during the next two years, my family moved often. Thus, we had to switch psychiatrists a lot. And I noticed that practically every psychiatrist came up with a different diagnosis: one insisted I was fine and just undergoing a lot of stress; one was convinced I suffered from bipolar disorder; another agreed with the depression diagnosis but believed it to be only mild; yet another concluded that the depression was only a symptom of powerful social anxiety and paranoia, exacerbated by puberty's hormones. And so on and so forth. I noticed something else: The whole time I was on medication, my life was depleted in practically every respect; my grades in school went down, my motivation decreased, I lost any semblance of a social life, and I ceased to feel any emotion. Finally I stopped seeing psychiatrists and tapered off the medication. The first month or two after was pretty rough, but I have been fine ever since. (Well, sort of.) Thus endeth the critically useless anecdotal evidence.

Over medication is one of the reasons we get these superbugs nowadays. Using drugs when you don't need them just makes any "bad" bacteria immune to another type of drug, because some always survive.
Another reason is because people when they should take drugs don't take them for the whole course. For example, you have an illness and you are prescribed antibiotics for 6 weeks. After 3 weeks you are better, so stop. But you still have some of the bacteria in you, just not enough for you to notice any symptoms. Because you have stopped taking the drugs these bacteria left multiply and some of them are not just resistant to the bacteria they are 100% immune. You get ill again, take some more antibiotics. It doesn't work. Doctor gives you a different type... and in 4 weeks the bacteria are immune to another antibiotic as well. Sometimes with illness' it's better to just suffer.

The answer to that is maybe, maybe not, it depends.

I have high cholesterol, acid reflux and arthritis. I take meds for all three. If I didn't, I would be at risk for heart attack and a damaged esophogus (and possibly esophogeal cancer). I would also be in so much pain, I couldn't move. Technically, I don't have to take the meds to survive, I do have to take them to make the survival worth the effort. I don't consider that I (or people like me) are overmedicated. I consider that we are fortunate to have the means available to ease our problems.

Very sorry, but what about if healthcare is free?There's no such thing as a free lunch.
Oh, a lawyer.

That explains a lot...

I really don't fucking care if you take meds all the time. I'll just think you as a poor fool lining the pockets of drug companies.

You think your so sophisticated and above people who hold other views don't you? Your so polished and evolved, eh?

And even if my views are backwards, so the fuck what? They work, and have worked.

You ever hear about that hiker who cut off his hand (or lower arm) so he could live? If you were able to deal with pain you could do that, and live. (he was trapped under a boulder or something like that). But, alas, you turn to advil for everything! Guess you'd be stuck!An so, because he was able to cut off his hand, we clearly know that he never took ibuprofen for a headache. Clearly.

They're unrelated.

It is about 4AM where I am, so I'm tired. My self control is waning. Plus, I do cuss when I'm mad. then go to sleep before you get yourself in trouble.

Maye the hiker would have, but it wasn't there. He was still able to deal with the pain and do what needed doing.Which still has nothing to do with anything else mentioned. Amazing what adrenaline and the will to survive will do. That doesn't prove or disprove we are overmedicated.

If you are in pain, something is usually wrong. However, being able to function while under great pain can save your live. I'm thinking of survival situations, soldiers, fireman, policeman, sports, etc. Maybe not everyday situations, but it still helpful, in my opinion, to be able to deal with pain. Yes, but taking tylenol for a headache in no way reduces your ability to deal with pain, particularly in survival situations.

Pfft, depression.

That's where willpower comes in handy.
Right...willpower will correct chemical imbalances and clinical depression. They should just suck it up.:rolleyes:
Educate yourself.


Are we overmedicated? In some cases, yes. In some, we are undermedicated. In most, it's a combination of both.

OTC meds: Ibuprofen, asprin, tylenol
No real risk of overmedication. While these drugs are pretty harsh on the system, they have no major impact on the individual and pose no wider implications.

Psych meds: depression, ADD, OCD, et. al.
Some are overprescribed. We do have many kids who have Adderall who don't really need it. It is also underprescribed...many people should be on it who aren't.
However, while the drugs have high impact on the individual, there is no wider potential for harm.

Antibiotics, antivirals
Very much overmedicated. We are creating versions of disease that are heavily resistant (Tuberculosis is a key example...1 in 5 cases is drug resistant). Yes, for an infection you need to take antibiotics (and you need to take the FULL COURSE PRESCRIBED), but in the past they have been so heavily used that we end up with MRSA. We are constantly looking for new antibiotics to kill the stronger superbugs. These meds have a high impact on the individual and enormous potential for wider implications, and must be used more carefully.


As for using more "natural" medications, that is just an idiotic idea by those who don't understand where our drugs come from. Almost all are derived from naturally occuring chemicals (ibuprofen is based on a chemical found in the bark of the climbing fig, iirc). We are finding new chemicals all the time in nature, and synthesizing them with minimal modification for human use. Holistic medicine is great, but is NOT a replacement for modern medicine.


I, personally, do not use medicine if I can avoid it. That is a personal choice that I don't like taking pills, and generally would rather just keep doing what I'm doing. To look down on others who need or choose to use medicine in appropriate situations is just assinine.

I hate it when people put badly behaved children on medication. They put them on so many meds they can't move. Children are people too.

Some kids have real problems like bipolar disorder that can be treated with medication. Some children are born without bipolar disorder and start to develop it as a result of all the drugs. There's an important difference there. In America once you're diagnosed with a so called learning disorder, which can happen as young as 3 years old, it's almost impossible to get rid of that label. You're treated like a ticking time bomb.

I hate it when people put badly behaved children on medication. They put them on so many meds they can't move. Children are people too.

You'd have an argument if it weren't for the fact that most of the mood-altering drugs that are prescribed are stimulants.

A Warning:I am currently pretty much high and drowsy right now due to a medication that I am taking, so if any part of my post has me going off of the main point of this post, then just bear with me, I'll find my way back.

So, my body apparently is going through a bit of a rough patch. I am on Antibiotics for UTI (Urinary Tract Infection) and while this shouldn't really come to a surprise to me, I get UTIs from time to time. What makes this special is that my body in the past has rejected the antibiotics they have me on. It violently rejects it, I'm talking spring cleaning kind of rejection. The rejection where you spend half the night on the toilet. Anyways, in order for me to take this antibiotic I have to take half of another pill which apparently is forcing my body to accept the antibiotic. We've tried seeing if we could go to another one, but apparently this antibiotic is the only one that can defeat the infection.

Then after we're done with the UTI, there's also a stomach virus that I have that is left untreated will cause ulcer in the first part of my Small Intestine. So, that's 3 medication in 2 weeks period. Not to mention the flu medication I had to take before I got the UTI to get rid of the flu. I'm not even going to talk about the meds my brother is on due to his health concerns.

Sometimes I wonder if we're being over medicated. I mean it seems like we got a pill for everything now. You're depressed, take a pill. Tired of your PMS, take a pill. Want to dull your senses, take several pills. Sometimes I wonder if there are simpler ways of doing things, like Alternative medicines and perhaps actually changing our eating habits and living habits for the better so we wouldn't be so dependent on Meds. What do you guys think?

That wasn't so bad, I'm pretty good at posting while on a medicated high.Sounds like you are a complete wreck. Why don't you just live healthier? Oh, and stop whining.

I hate it when people put badly behaved children on medication. They put them on so many meds they can't move. Children are people too.

Some kids have real problems like bipolar disorder that can be treated with medication. Some children are born without bipolar disorder and start to develop it as a result of all the drugs. There's an important difference there. In America once you're diagnosed with a so called learning disorder, which can happen as young as 3 years old, it's almost impossible to get rid of that label. You're treated like a ticking time bomb.Americans are ticking time bombs.

It is possible that we are over medicated.

The issue arises when new strains of bacteria, viruses, and the like, develop due to the heavy use of anti-bacterial substances, and whatever would urge a virus to adapt. Penicillin is much less effective than it used to be.

There are many types of similar medications, all claiming to be the best, all with a plethora of side effects. Maybe this is just a sign of medical progress.

People also tend to be over-eager in their use of painkillers like aspirin. But that is a personal choice, who am I to say they aren't necessary? At any rate, I don't think aspirin, advil, tylenol, and other similar products cause any new strains of microorganism to develop.

I try to stay away from medication unless there is a life-threatening situation.

You'd have an argument if it weren't for the fact that most of the mood-altering drugs that are prescribed are stimulants.Have you taken a stimulant? Over time it can ruin your energy level because you can't sleep and you're depressed all the time.

Nah. For me, taking an aspirin is a red-letter day.
If I had a condition that necessitated medication, you bet I'd take it. But taking shitloads of chemicals every time you sneeze is a different matter.

Have you taken a stimulant? Over time it can ruin your energy level because you can't sleep and you're depressed all the time.

Considering how many stimulants I'm on, yes, I rather think I have taken stimulants. And I've never experienced what you mention.

Pfft, depression.

That's where willpower comes in handy.

Hahahahaha, right.

I'll put my willpower up against yours any day, but that isn't going to change the chemical makeup of my brain.

Because most everyone I know sleeps about 14 hours a night because of it.
I used to be on it myself, back when I was twelve, and I had the same experience. Now I'm not even on a modd stabalizer and am perfectly fine.
I know plenty of kids who fake symptoms of bipolar to get seroquel, too, and the doctors don't notice.
And yes, I'll completely live with my Zoloft stomach aches because it's much better than the side affects of Paxil.

See, I'm evidently one of the few people who hasn't had a negative side effects from Paxil. I only have to take it at night, because it makes me a little groggy. not really a negative, just have to remember to take the damn thing. Which I didn't last night, in all the excitement of Val Day. Fun.

Side note: I once forgot to take my Paxil one night. The next day, my mom came over, took one look at me, and asked if I'd forgotten my meds. I evidently get really tense and jumpy if I miss a dose.

Pfft, depression.

That's where willpower comes in handy.

There's a little emoticon to indicate sarcasm. If you're not being sarcastic, you're being an asshole who has never experienced mental health problems.

Oh, a lawyer.

That explains a lot...

I really don't fucking care if you take meds all the time. I'll just think you as a poor fool lining the pockets of drug companies.

You think your so sophisticated and above people who hold other views don't you? Your so polished and evolved, eh?

And even if my views are backwards, so the fuck what? They work, and have worked.

You ever hear about that hiker who cut off his hand (or lower arm) so he could live? If you were able to deal with pain you could do that, and live. (he was trapped under a boulder or something like that). But, alas, you turn to advil for everything! Guess you'd be stuck!

I suppose you'd be fine if a bear mauled you and ate half your intestines because your pain tolerance is so much higher after not taking an aspirin?

Really, now, this is getting very silly -- and there's no reason for you to be getting worked up and insulting to others.

You are doing a fairly good job of making sure no one will take you seriously.

I have a bulging disc in my spine, which presses against a nerve. This causes my left hip to become essentially one massive fireball of pain on a daily basis, especially when I have to sit a lot.

Of course, this time of year, I don't have much of a choice...I work in a tax office, which means sitting for 12+ hours a day. This is, by the way, the family tax office, so quitting really isn't an option, unless I want to totally piss off my entire family. In addition, its this time of year I make probably 75% of the money which keeps me going through the rest of the year.

So, as a result, I take drugs, drugs and more drugs. I take an anti-inflammatory, I take heavy duty prescribed pain-killers, I take muscle relaxants.

Could I endure the pain? Probably. Do I want to endure the pain? Hell no. Thanks for the offer, but I'll take my drugs.

Let's consider this, however. In the 1800's, they were taking things like opium and laudanum for a headache. Now we're taking tylenol or ibuprofen or aspirin. I call that a step in the right direction.

Yes, yes we are.

I suppose you'd be fine if a bear mauled you and ate half your intestines because your pain tolerance is so much higher after not taking an aspirin?

Pfft.. come on.. As if a bear could maul Trollgaard. Ha!
He would bite off the bears left testicle in a display of manly manliness.

Pfft.. come on.. As if a bear could maul Trollgaard. Ha!
He would bite off the bears left testicle in a display of manly manliness.

I personally hold you responsible for the sip of Coca Cola that just bathed my screen.

I personally hold you responsible for the sip of Coca Cola that just bathed my screen.

I accept full responsibility. (http://longevity.about.com/b/2007/03/28/laughter-extends-life.htm):p

I suppose you'd be fine if a bear mauled you and ate half your intestines because your pain tolerance is so much higher after not taking an aspirin?

Really, now, this is getting very silly -- and there's no reason for you to be getting worked up and insulting to others.

You are doing a fairly good job of making sure no one will take you seriously.

Yeah, yeah. I woke up a while ago and reread the thread and cringed.

Haha.

Anyways.

I agree with what you said earlier. If people actually have a condition where the need medication, then medication is fine. (as long as the doctor was right in his diagnosis). But for common cuts, bruises, headaches, and colds- I don't really think you need to take medication.

About the depression: I meant to use the sarcasms smiley.

Although, I do think some people who claim they are depressed just need a smack in the face so they realize they really don't have it that bad.

Edit: Bring the bear on! Give me a knife, and I'll go at it. I think I've said this before, but that is one of the ways I wouldn't mind dying- by a bear.

Although, I do think some people who claim they are depressed just need a smack in the face so they realize they really don't have it that bad.

Eh?

When you're (read: I'm) depressed, "you don't really have it that bad" is about the worst thing that can be said to you (read: me). You (read: I) may stop to think about it for a moment, and realise, yes, you don't really have it that bad. You could be living in conditions of abject poverty and terror, or suffering from a terminal case of cancer or Alzheimer's, or be confined to a hospital. You should be thankful that you still live in a house, eat normal food, etc., and can function reasonably well in daily life. But instead what do you do? You mope around all day claiming you're depressed! You're a horrible, selfish, spoiled individual undeserving of such a privileged life, you ingrate! Et cetera, et cetera: in short, it just ends up making you (read: me) -more- depressed.

I'm not going to comment on the "emo" or "goth" subcultures or attention whores in general, this post is only relevant to individuals who are really, truly depressed and not just having a bad day.

I agree with what you said earlier. If people actually have a condition where the need medication, then medication is fine. (as long as the doctor was right in his diagnosis). But for common cuts, bruises, headaches, and colds- I don't really think you need to take medication.

Cuts, bruises, headaches and colds are all "medical conditions", so that argument really doesn't fly. What you're trying to say is medication for medical conditions "serious" enough to warrant medication. Well, who is the arbiter of what defines a medical condition "serious enough"? You, Mr. Random-Guy-On-The-Internet?

Although, I do think some people who claim they are depressed just need a smack in the face so they realize they really don't have it that bad.

Well, that pretty much bones any effort of yours to be taken seriously on any topic of medication and medical advice. With shit like that I'm inclined to automatically do the opposite of whatever you say on the grounds that following your medical advice would probably kill me.

Cuts, bruises, headaches and colds are all "medical conditions", so that argument really doesn't fly. What you're trying to say is medication for medical conditions "serious" enough to warrant medication. Well, who is the arbiter of what defines a medical condition "serious enough"? You, Mr. Random-Guy-On-The-Internet?



Well, that pretty much bones any effort of yours to be taken seriously on any topic of medication and medical advice. With shit like that I'm inclined to automatically do the opposite of whatever you say on the grounds that following your medical advice would probably kill me.

Its would be a case by case basis if things needed medication. Who decides when it is appropriate? Who knows? That is the question, isn't it?

I was talking basically about spoiled attention whores. I guess I should have been more clear. Also, did you notice I said people who claim to be depressed?

Its would be a case by case basis if things needed medication. Who decides when it is appropriate? Who knows? That is the question, isn't it?

Your whole argument is nonsensical. Medication is ok, when it's appropriate, but you can't define when it's appropriate. Here's a thought. Maybe I should be the one who decides what's appropriate for me.

If you don't feel like taking asprin for a headache, fine, don't. I do. Who defines when it's appropriate for me to take an asprin when I have a headache? Me.

Not you, Mr. Random-Guy-On-The-Internet. Me. You've been trying to draw some nonsensical and arbitrary line here (headache no, migraine yes. Cold no, flu yes. Scrape no, cancer yes) as if you're trying to make your own subjective principle some universal truth, and in doing so you've made so many inaccuracies, false statements and just plain errors that you have rendered yourself the last person anyone should come to for medical advice.

I asked at the onset of this thread why I shouldn't take medication to relieve a headache, or cure depression, or make a sore muscle stop hurting, you have done absolutly nothing to answer that question. You've blathered on about if I had a migraine instead of just a normal headache, that's ok, but I shouldn't take for a headache because...well...you Mr. Random-Guy-On-The-Internet said so.

Also, did you notice I said people who claim to be depressed?

I noticed just fine. I'm just waiting for you to explain, with your expert medical knowledge, how you can tell those "stupid attention whores" who "claim to be depressed" aren't actually...you know...depressed.

Are we over medicated?

I'm not, I don't know about the rest of you. ;)

Oh, it's my favorite argument, the Depression and Other Psychiatric Disorders Don't Exist Tom Cruise School of Psychiatry.

As someone who's attempted suicide, I could tell you that will power has nothing to do with depression... but you'd just say I didn't have enough will power. It's funny how some people refuse to believe depression is real. I've never heard voices, but I don't doubt that schizophrenia is real. But they probably don't have enough will power to stop hallucinating, the lazy bastards!

mmm depression i think that willpower might not be the correct word it is hoever how YOU llok upon life and what you make of it that will affect if you are happy or depressed

earlier in my life i alway's hated it no one liked me they alway's hurt me and i really hated everything and even on such a jong age i would have liked to end my live multiple times lucky i wasn't sure how and i was quick to turn away from such toughts hoever now about 6 years later i notice that thanks to those experiences back then i changed a lot and also thanks to my willpower to change i now am happy and i do lead a happy life why? because i didn't want to live like a depressed old man instead i wanted to see the good side in things so i started to see things the good and bright way and now i accually never feel depressed maybe once or twice a year but i won't even remember next week so willpower might indirectly affect depression but more important is they way you see things
lets just say suicide isn't the solution to depression instead use your wilpower to change think of the good sides in my case i tought about my family what i would ahve done to them would have have even tried to commit suicide tell you what i was scared they would find me weak i was scared people would be happy to have me gone so instead i wanted to make people realise that its better if i'm alive and if not why should i be the one to commit suicide. if they don't like my why don't they get rid of themselves instead

conclusion
see the bright things and don't care about the not bright things

what also ussually seems to work is talk with someone you trust :)

i have had a few times on internet were some people had a problem i convinced them to talk about it with me they did and as far as i know they felt alot better :) that also makes me feel better and if someone like i did just listens it give the other person the feeling there is someone that cares and altough i had never seen those people and that i have no knowlage whatsoever on how to help depressed people i just listen and told them what i would do if neccesery but by listening i already helped them and depression is real but so is it that people create it themselfes and this sounds very harsh and unacceptable because other people might have an hand in it but in the end ONLY you can do something about it but if needed with help of someone else

don't you agree?

Its pretty lame to dismiss the idea that too much medication for non serious problems can be dangerous, just because some religious people are saying it. I have seen many scientists make similar statements. It does make logical sense in some respects.

don't you agree?

Having known a few clinically depressed people in my time: no.
Medication and therapy are appropriate for those who are correctly diagnosed.

A Warning:I am currently pretty much high and drowsy right now due to a medication that I am taking, so if any part of my post has me going off of the main point of this post, then just bear with me, I'll find my way back.

So, my body apparently is going through a bit of a rough patch. I am on Antibiotics for UTI (Urinary Tract Infection) and while this shouldn't really come to a surprise to me, I get UTIs from time to time. What makes this special is that my body in the past has rejected the antibiotics they have me on. It violently rejects it, I'm talking spring cleaning kind of rejection. The rejection where you spend half the night on the toilet. Anyways, in order for me to take this antibiotic I have to take half of another pill which apparently is forcing my body to accept the antibiotic. We've tried seeing if we could go to another one, but apparently this antibiotic is the only one that can defeat the infection.

Then after we're done with the UTI, there's also a stomach virus that I have that is left untreated will cause ulcer in the first part of my Small Intestine. So, that's 3 medication in 2 weeks period. Not to mention the flu medication I had to take before I got the UTI to get rid of the flu. I'm not even going to talk about the meds my brother is on due to his health concerns.

Sometimes I wonder if we're being over medicated. I mean it seems like we got a pill for everything now. You're depressed, take a pill. Tired of your PMS, take a pill. Want to dull your senses, take several pills. Sometimes I wonder if there are simpler ways of doing things, like Alternative medicines and perhaps actually changing our eating habits and living habits for the better so we wouldn't be so dependent on Meds. What do you guys think?

That wasn't so bad, I'm pretty good at posting while on a medicated high.

Bill Maher closed his show with a similar sentiment last week.

Last season one of his new rules included "you don't have to recall stuff for E.coli if it would make you sick anyway. This week 200 shipments of Jeno's pizza had to be recalsed because it was tainted with e.coli. Couldn't they just as easily have said that 200 shipments of e.coli had to be recalled because it was tainted with Jeno's pizza?"

It isn't all to do with what we eat, but that's a lot of it. There's also the exercise quotient. I was 135 lbs for the last 10 years. Then I got a steady job that required me to sit in a chair for 8 hours a day, plus another two hours sitting in a car. So when I used to be on my feet all day when I wasn't asleep, now I'm sitting for 10 hours a day, lying down for another 8, and unable to do any searious exercise the rest of the day because I have a two-year old to take care of. My weight ballooned up to 190, I developed pain in my knees, and I have developed digestive problems that I never had with pretty much the same diet. I can only attribute that to the fact that my abdominals muscles are no longer keeping the same supportive pressure on my organs that they used to, forcing them to work harder. I am also unable to run without pain in my shins from the impact, when a year ago I used to be able to run for miles. I'd get tired and winded, but my bones and muscles wouldn't feel a thing.

Human beings aren't designed to live in the modern world. We're designed to walk around most the day. Run, jump, and dance, then sit down for a while before going to sleep.

Good luck finding a job like that in the 21st century.

Just like we needed modern sanitation to compensate for modern population density, then immunization shots to compensate for the sterility of modern civilization, and now we need nutritional supplements to make up for the lack of nutirtion in modern agricultural products.

I noticed just fine. I'm just waiting for you to explain, with your expert medical knowledge, how you can tell those "stupid attention whores" who "claim to be depressed" aren't actually...you know...depressed.One way you can tell is by the fact that they don't seek serious medical attention because then they might have to change their outlook on life.
Considering how many stimulants I'm on, yes, I rather think I have taken stimulants. And I've never experienced what you mention.Well, that has happened to me. I know medication is helpful, or necessary, for some people, but there are plenty of people who don't need it and get it pushed on them by schools anyway.

Some teachers don't want to admit they aren't good enough at their job to create a classroom full of straight-A students, so they try to get their C students tested for mental defects. When they can't find anything wrong with the students intelligence or processing abilities, sometimes they will diagnose the student with ADD, an subjective diagnosis that can't really be tested for. A lot of kids are also diagnosed with PDD aka pervasive development disorder. That word doesn't mean anything, it's just a blanket term to cover anybody screwed up. Once the psychiatrist has convinced you there is something wrong with you even though you have average grades and an average social life, they try to make you take medication. If you act worse on the medication your behavior is blamed on your diagnosis, and if you do better, the medication gets the credit.

I'm going to post a rant now which isn't about medication, but it is connected because it's about greedy morons. I was forced to see a therapist for years who got angry at my parents for not going to court over my guardianship after I turned 18. This means that she wanted my parents to keep custody over me - after I turned 18! Parents can do this if they can prove in court that their child has bad judgment, which couldn't be done in my case because PPD isn't a real disease and they only let the parents keep guardianship if the kid has downs or something. Anyway my parents didn't take this advice seriously, and my therapist got so angry she refused to see me any more. You must be thinking they had a good reason to treat me this way, right? Wrong. I asked her why my parents should have custody of me, and first she tried to convince me it was "none of my business." I persisted, so she explained that if I get into an accident, I need to ask my parents advice before I get surgery. What? Personally I think she just wanted my parents to have the power to force me to go to therapy for the rest of my life even though I hated it. She also tried to steal thousands of dollars from my family by committing insurance fraud. My family found this out years later, and she only paid back half of the unearned money. She still has that money because my parents don't feel like fighting over it.

Well, aside from the massive differences in brain structure.Can you explain that? Nobody looked at my brain structure.

sometimes they will diagnose the student with ADD, an subjective diagnosis that can't really be tested for.
Well, aside from the massive differences in brain structure.

One way you can tell is by the fact that they don't seek serious medical attention because then they might have to change their outlook on life.

Because we all know depressed people are known for their ability to make rational choices :rolleyes: Really, are you actually trying to argue that you can tell when someone "isn't really depressed" if they don't seek help for that condition?

Do you actually know anything about depression?

Because we all know depressed people are known for their ability to make rational choices :rolleyes: Really, are you actually trying to argue that you can tell when someone "isn't really depressed" if they don't seek help for that condition?

Do you actually know anything about depression?



Well I sought help, but thats because I had a lot of good friends telling me I maybe should.

Can you explain that? Nobody looked at my brain structure.

Look at a scan of the brain of someone with AD/H/D and compare it with a scan of the brain of someone without it, and you'll see a huge difference. Since we have a pretty good idea of what the changed parts of the brain do, we can observe behavior to indirectly determine that there is the difference in the brain structure that signifies AD/H/D.

Because we all know depressed people are known for their ability to make rational choices :rolleyes: Really, are you actually trying to argue that you can tell when someone "isn't really depressed" if they don't seek help for that condition?

Do you actually know anything about depression?That's not what I said. I don't think everyone who avoids seeking help is not really depressed. I was talking specifically about the type of person who is not depressed, but likes to act like they are. Sometimes they even go so far as to wear black in the summer.

There are a lot of emo kids who whine for recreation. That kind of person doesn't seek serious help because they are afraid they will have to give up their lifestyle. They act like they are so out there and freaky and they don't want someone bursting their bubble and telling them they're similar to most people. They tell everybody they are weird because they are proud of their pretend problems like being so messed up they're incapable of buying anything that is not from hot topic.
Look at a scan of the brain of someone with AD/H/D and compare it with a scan of the brain of someone without it, and you'll see a huge difference. Since we have a pretty good idea of what the changed parts of the brain do, we can observe behavior to indirectly determine that there is the difference in the brain structure that signifies AD/H/D.I just looked up the study you where probably referring to on wikipedia. http://www.continuingedcourses.net/active/courses/course003.php There is no massive difference, but apparently the growth of certain parts of the brains of some ADD people is delayed by about 3 years. Other parts where more advanced in some people.

Fuck man, do be such a jerk about it. If you simply say," I don't think those are the best reasons" or something like that I'll respond with "Fair enough" (to each his own, right?), but now you've pissed me off.

Why the fuck didn't you say you had fucking migrains in the first place? If you have migraines, take god damned medication if you want. Migrains suck-they aren't normal headaches (how the fuck do people get headaches anyway?!).

Are you a man? I ask this because it has a huge impact, and would shed light on where your viewpoint is coming from.

The social norms that I know are that men don't show pain, and don't take help. We soldier through pain, and get things done ourselves.

Willpower is always good to increase. You won't be easily led astray by others, and it can get you through some tough times.

Knowing your limits is always good,so you don't fucking get hurt. Expanding your limits is good, too.

And ignoring and soldiering through pain IS tough. If you soldier through the small pain, you'll be better able to deal with big pain. Fucking simple.
Hey, macho. I am a man. (A nearly bald man at the moment due to a buzzcut.)

And I happen to agree with every word he said. Your views are archaic and no longer useful. They are, in fact, harmful like so many other "manly" beliefs. I don't mean to insult you, though I understand why Neo Art did--my sister is also a sufferer of migraines, so I have a bit of an idea of what he goes through. (Not to mention he has a rather tough job on top of it. Of course, understanding does not excuse something, but that's beside the point.)

We no longer have to "suck up" things if there is nothing preventing us from acquiring some sort of aid against the problem. We used to, as a species, need to do that because we didn't have the sort of medical knowledge we have today.

If you want to worry about something, don't worry about over-medicating. Worry about improper medicating, which happens all too frequently in the United States due to our messed up healthcare system.

Hey, macho. I am a man. (A nearly bald man at the moment due to a buzzcut.)

And I happen to agree with every word he said. Your views are archaic and no longer useful. They are, in fact, harmful like so many other "manly" beliefs. I don't mean to insult you, though I understand why Neo Art did--my sister is also a sufferer of migraines, so I have a bit of an idea of what he goes through. (Not to mention he has a rather tough job on top of it. Of course, understanding does not excuse something, but that's beside the point.)


In your opinion. But everyone has different opinions. But, like I said I would say, fair enough. We all have our own opinions. I disagree with yours, and you disagree with mine. Fine with me.

You can be a wrong, and a wimp, if you want. ;)


We no longer have to "suck up" things if there is nothing preventing us from acquiring some sort of aid against the problem. We used to, as a species, need to do that because we didn't have the sort of medical knowledge we have today.


We don't have to to, but maybe sometimes we should.


If you want to worry about something, don't worry about over-medicating. Worry about improper medicating, which happens all too frequently in the United States due to our messed up healthcare system.

Eh, whatever. I don't use medicine, so it doesn't really bother me.

Trollgaard I don't think people need to suck up their problems, but I think there are cases where people choose to take a pill instead of changing their lifestyle. For example if you have knee pain and you take painkillers instead of doing exercises to fix the problem, that doesn't work out in the long run. That's part of the reason I never take painkillers for minor things. Minor things like headaches are usually there for a reason. Even migraines have triggers that should be avoided. In my case I get a migraine whenever I stare at bright lights for a long time (AKA the computer). That's not a good habit.

Hey, macho. I am a man. (A nearly bald man at the moment due to a buzzcut.)

Meh, you're not a man, you're a squid (or squid to be). ;)

I just looked up the study you where probably referring to on wikipedia. http://www.continuingedcourses.net/active/courses/course003.php There is no massive difference, but apparently the growth of certain parts of the brains of some ADD people is delayed by about 3 years. Other parts where more advanced in some people.

Nope. Not that one. The one I remember had pictures. Although I might be melding the two. Yeah, I think I am. The one I'm thinking about dealt with brain activity, and there was a major difference.

Trollgaard I don't think people need to suck up their problems, but I think there are cases where people choose to take a pill instead of changing their lifestyle. For example if you have knee pain and you take painkillers instead of doing exercises to fix the problem, that doesn't work out in the long run. That's part of the reason I never take painkillers for minor things. Minor things like headaches are usually there for a reason.

You make a good point. Sometimes there are others ways to treat problems than throwing pills at the problem.

I meant to address this earlier, but it slipped my mind. Thanks for reminding me, VietnamSounds.

In your opinion. But everyone has different opinions.

We have the right to different opinions. However, there are two kinds of opinions. Intelligent, informed opinions which are based on a careful, rational analysis of facts and information and reached through consideration.

And then there are opinions formed based on ignorance, bias, lack of information and a general incapability or unwillingness to consider the facts of the circumstances, and are based on knee jerk presumptions and nonsense.

Your kind of opinions, in other words. And while you certainly have the right to hold uninformed, silly and ignorant opinions, you do so at the peril of having mean nasty people like me tell you that they are uninformed, silly, and ignorant.

And if you don't care for your uninformed silly and ignorant opinions being called uninformed, silly, and ignorant, I suggest you spend more time and take more care in forming them.

Trollgaard I don't think people need to suck up their problems, but I think there are cases where people choose to take a pill instead of changing their lifestyle. For example if you have knee pain and you take painkillers instead of doing exercises to fix the problem, that doesn't work out in the long run. That's part of the reason I never take painkillers for minor things. Minor things like headaches are usually there for a reason. Even migraines have triggers that should be avoided. In my case I get a migraine whenever I stare at bright lights for a long time (AKA the computer). That's not a good habit.
This is the sort of thing I mean by improper medication. We are giving ourselves medications for many problems that we could eliminate simply by altering bits of our lifestyle, yes.

But this IS substantially different from over-medication. Medicine, when taken properly, is splendid and wonderful.

I know that a few of my colleagues take Tylenol for little things, like a finger cramp, and I consider that to be ridiculous.

But I see no harm in taking medication in moderation, given that it's legal and FDA approved.

FDA?

I know that a few of my colleagues take Tylenol for little things, like a finger cramp, and I consider that to be ridiculous.

But I see no harm in taking medication in moderation, given that it's legal and FDA approved.

FDA?

the food and drug administration....US entity that regulates the effectiveness and use of drugs (among other things)

This is the sort of thing I mean by improper medication. We are giving ourselves medications for many problems that we could eliminate simply by altering bits of our lifestyle, yes.

But this IS substantially different from over-medication. Medicine, when taken properly, is splendid and wonderful.I agree, most people benefit from medicine. I think a big part of the problem is that people think they are taking the right thing if the doctor approves of it. Most doctors just want to make you happy. If you ask for vicodin for your toothache, you will get it. I don't know why House even bothers to acquire it illegally.

A few more points:

1) Appropriate medication for properly diagnosed conditions is a blessing of the modern world. I, for one, would never want to go back to a time when we did not have the medicines we have now.

2) When I talk about "us" being "over-medicated," I am talking about the population of the United States as a group, basing my opinion on the last ten years' worth of statistics released by various health organizations (because I started paying attention to the issue about that long ago). I can't speak about other countries.

3) By "over-medicated" I specifically mean taking medications inappropriately -- over-using anti-bacterial/anti-viral meds, using meds meant for serious conditions to treat mild conditions, and mixing drugs recklessly, especially when taking drugs for conditions that, technically, could be treated with less potent drugs or non-medically.

4) In my opinion, one's meds should match the seriousness of one's condition. What I mean is (speaking figuratively), some pain is treatable with ibuprofen, other kinds of pain can only be stopped by morphine, but if you take morphine for a sinus headache, you are heading for trouble. For instance:

-- Not every ADD kid needs to be on meds. Some kids are so unable to function due to ADD that they need medication, but the Association of American Pediatricians (I'm not sure if that's their correct title; I wrote that from memory) has issued many public statements over several years that kids are being over-medicated with ADD drugs because parents and schools are trying to use the medications for quick, easy behavior modification of children who are otherwise hard to deal with. Many of those kids could be managed non-medically because their ADD is not so extreme that it would make it impossible for them to learn how to function socially without meds.

-- Depression is a serious condition, and medication can save a person's life. But many Americans take anti-depressants not to cure depression but to maintain a good or calm mood. In other words, they take the meds not to remedy a problem but to maintain a desirable state. In many places, drugs like Zoloft are being used the way laudanum was used in the 19th century -- to prevent or suppress problems, not to cure them.

Of course not every American acts this way, but enough do that I would say that, as a nation, we tend to be over-medicated.

One way you can tell is by the fact that they don't seek serious medical attention because then they might have to change their outlook on life.
Thank you. Where did you get your medical degree? Oh right -- you didn't. Because just as often, people who are clinically depressed are paralyzed with it -- sleeping most of the day, not having the energy to even think about what they can do to seek help. But thanks for the completely unresearched, unfounded and ignorant opinion.

Well, that has happened to me. I know medication is helpful, or necessary, for some people, but there are plenty of people who don't need it and get it pushed on them by schools anyway.
Because of course, schools -- and not doctors -- can diagnose illnesses and prescribe medication.... oh, wait....

Some teachers don't want to admit they aren't good enough at their job to create a classroom full of straight-A students, so they try to get their C students tested for mental defects. When they can't find anything wrong with the students intelligence or processing abilities, sometimes they will diagnose the student with ADD, an subjective diagnosis that can't really be tested for. A lot of kids are also diagnosed with PDD aka pervasive development disorder. That word doesn't mean anything, it's just a blanket term to cover anybody screwed up.

Do you understand what average means?
Do you understand that it is not possible to have a full class of straight-A students because statistically, it's near impossible? That the only way to have a classroom full of straight-A students is if you dumb down the tests enough, or you're teaching material FAR below the capacity of the class?
Do you actually have any idea what you're talking about, or is this the thinly veiled "poor me, everything is everyone else's fault" whine?

Teachers cannot diagnose medical problems.
Teachers cannot prescribe medication.
Teachers do not assume that if they don't have a 98% passing rate, the students are mentally deficient. Maybe that's what you THINK they think, but they don't. I would assume that if all the kids are getting As, the teacher is fucking with the grades.

Once the psychiatrist has convinced you there is something wrong with you even though you have average grades and an average social life, they try to make you take medication. If you act worse on the medication your behavior is blamed on your diagnosis, and if you do better, the medication gets the credit.
Ah, so it's NOT the teacher, it's the psychiatrist who makes the diagnosis, prescribes the drugs, et cetera. Those are two very different jobs.

And if you had "average grades" and an "average social life" no psychiatrist with any integrity would prescribe meds -- and besides, I thought you said that it was underachievers, not average students, whom teachers diagnosed and drugged?

And wow, what a lapse in logic -- child seems to be suffering from a diagnosed condition, child is prescribed medication, child gets better -- nah, can't possibly have been the proper treatment for diagnosis. It must have been.... The Force.

And oh, if you don't get better, normally a decent medical practitioner will look more deeply at the diagnosis to be sure it's correct, alter the dosage or try a different medication -- not "blame the diagnosis". Because what you're saying is that the diagnosis is wrong (and could be, and should then be further investigated and altered) but what you seem to mean is "your behavior is blamed on the emotional or chemical imbalance regardless of whether or not the treatment is successful."

Not many medical practitioners would blame the patient for their illness, I think, unless the illness is connected to destructive things -- like smoking and lung cancer, or obesity and eating fast food 21 times a week....

I'm going to post a rant now which isn't about medication, but it is connected because it's about greedy morons. I was forced to see a therapist for years who got angry at my parents for not going to court over my guardianship after I turned 18. This means that she wanted my parents to keep custody over me - after I turned 18! Parents can do this if they can prove in court that their child has bad judgment, which couldn't be done in my case because PPD isn't a real disease and they only let the parents keep guardianship if the kid has downs or something. Anyway my parents didn't take this advice seriously, and my therapist got so angry she refused to see me any more. You must be thinking they had a good reason to treat me this way, right? Wrong. I asked her why my parents should have custody of me, and first she tried to convince me it was "none of my business." I persisted, so she explained that if I get into an accident, I need to ask my parents advice before I get surgery. What? Personally I think she just wanted my parents to have the power to force me to go to therapy for the rest of my life even though I hated it. She also tried to steal thousands of dollars from my family by committing insurance fraud. My family found this out years later, and she only paid back half of the unearned money. She still has that money because my parents don't feel like fighting over it.

So basically, because you disagree with the diagnosis of the professional you and your parents selected, who believed that you are not capable of making rational decisions about your care and recommended that your parents remain in legal control of your medical decisions. When your family chose not to take her expert advice, you then became angry because she decided not to treat you anymore.

How does that make her a greedy moron? If you were STILL GOING, she would STILL BE GETTING PAID. She cut off her pay by telling your family, "If you won't take my medical advice, there's nothing more to do here." That doesn't sound greedy, that sounds like someone who doesn't feel like wasting her time or yours, and doesn't feel like wasting your family's money on care you're ignoring.

Trollgaard I don't think people need to suck up their problems, but I think there are cases where people choose to take a pill instead of changing their lifestyle. For example if you have knee pain and you take painkillers instead of doing exercises to fix the problem, that doesn't work out in the long run. That's part of the reason I never take painkillers for minor things. Minor things like headaches are usually there for a reason. Even migraines have triggers that should be avoided. In my case I get a migraine whenever I stare at bright lights for a long time (AKA the computer). That's not a good habit.

I've got a migraine right now, and I'm about to take 600mg of ibuprofen for it. The things that trigger my migraines cannot be avoided -- they are caused by the weather, by changes in air pressure. This one is being driven by a series of squall lines moving over my area. I could feel them coming by the pressure building inside my skull. For about six hours, the migraine was mild enough that I could ignore it, but the storms are still coming through, and the pain now is significant and my vision is starting to go wonky. So it's time to pop some pills. In this case, I think I am managing my migraine appropriately, responding with the right level of medicine to match my current condition. My migraines are far from as bad as migraines can get, so if I were to go ask for a prescription med for migraine, I would be over-medicating myself, imo. Ibuprofen and rest fixes them, so that is the appropriate level of treatment for my condition.

Likewise, I have a bum knee -- the cartilege is starting to break down plus I have beginning arthritis and have had serious tendon injuries to that knee. It hurts, but not evenly or constantly. I don't take painkillers every single time it hurts, but when the pain reaches a certain level or continues too long, then I will take pills. Likewise, if I am going to do heavy exercise that I know from experience will aggravate the joint, I will take ibuprofen in advance to prevent inflammation. As with my migraines, I believe I am treating the knee pain appropriately for me, according to the condition of my knee and my personal pain tolerance. A bum knee is really pretty much a mechnical problem so there's really nothing else meds could do for it, and my pain is nowhere near bad enough to warrant prescription pain medication.

Likewise, I have a bum knee -- the cartilege is starting to break down plus I have beginning arthritis and have had serious tendon injuries to that knee. It hurts, but not evenly or constantly. I don't take painkillers every single time it hurts, but when the pain reaches a certain level or continues too long, then I will take pills. Likewise, if I am going to do heavy exercise that I know from experience will aggravate the joint, I will take ibuprofen in advance to prevent inflammation. As with my migraines, I believe I am treating the knee pain appropriately for me, according to the condition of my knee and my personal pain tolerance. A bum knee is really pretty much a mechnical problem, and my pain is nowhere near bad enough to warrant prescription pain medication.

Personally, I would suggest Naproxen Sodium instead of Ibuprofen, in my experience it works better as an anti-inflammatory.

Thank you. Where did you get your medical degree? Oh right -- you didn't.

<snip>
I'm not going to comment on the specifics of what VietnamSounds says because, to be honest, he/she is kind of all over the map.

I'd just like to point out that while it is true that teachers and schools do not diagnose conditions or prescribe medications, it often happens that schools will pressure parents to put children on medication to control behavior issues. And it is not uncommon for parents, on their own, to pressure doctors into giving a desired diagnosis and prescription and to change doctors until they find one that will do what they want. This reflects a social attitude that I think contributes to over-use of medications, not just for children but for adults seeking their own treatments as well. Doctors increasingly complain of being put under such pressure.

I'm not going to comment on the specifics of what VietnamSounds says because, to be honest, he/she is kind of all over the map.

I'd just like to point out that while it is true that teachers and schools do not diagnose conditions or prescribe medications, it often happens that schools will pressure parents to put children on medication to control behavior issues. And it is not uncommon for parents, on their own, to pressure doctors into giving a desired diagnosis and prescription and to change doctors until they find one that will do what they want. This reflects a social attitude that I think contributes to over-use of medications, not just for children but for adults seeking their own treatments as well. Doctors increasingly complain of being put under such pressure.

Not all teachers pressure parents to drug their kids, and not all schools pressure parents to drug their kids, and NONE, as he suggests, can diagnose and prescribe.

I happen to know of one parent who went to five different doctors before she found one who was willing to look the other way and prescribe as if the child had ADHD -- and now the child has heart problems caused by the medicine. But that, I think, is a separate issue.

I can understand that you're probably a teacher and you're angry at all of my ranting. I know I'm not being exactly fair and unbiased here. High school was helpful many times, and most of the people I'm whining about probably had good intentions. However I'm still bitter about the problems I had in high school, some of which where caused by the school. I still have an unusual lack of confidence in some areas and I blame that on some of the teachers I had who did not treat me like I was capable of doing even simple things myself, even when I was about to graduate.Because of course, schools -- and not doctors -- can diagnose illnesses and prescribe medication.... oh, wait.... The teachers are the ones who hired people to give me psychological testing. I also had teachers who told me I had problems I didn't really have, such as executive function. At that age I tended to believe what teachers said, even though tests sometimes showed otherwise. When I was 7 the school made me leave normal class to go to physical therapy because I did not want to hold my pencil correctly. The physical therapist told me I would never be able to do ballet because I will never be able to point my toes. This wasn't true, and she didn't do any test to figure out if it was true such as asking me to point my toes. She thinks that because she's a teacher she can say whatever she wants. I don't know why teachers act like this, it is not rational. I think many people agree that teachers like this are not good teachers, but they often get away with it anyway. At least around here they do.

After I was put on medication and did much worse in school, I was put in a special needs high school. The teachers at that school were qualified to give me tests and say I probably had ADD. That's how ADD is brought to the attention of the parents who might take the student to a doctor and get a diagnosis. There were also many times when the teachers would claim I had problems there was no proof I had, and no diagnosis to back it up, but they treated it like a real problem anyway. Sometimes I had a real problem but it was labeled in correctly and my interpretation of the issue wasn't taken seriously. I understand that the teachers probably thought they where doing the right thing, but it wasn't right. The teachers at my normal high school did the same thing, but at this new school they abused the power more often. Once I was being verbally tested when there was a lawnmower outside, and they wrote in a report that I am "incapable of understanding spoken paragraphs." I don't care how professional that diagnosis is, it's BS. They ignored all of the times I have responded to spoken words in class and went by that report from then on. They also got very involved with every aspect of my personal life. They sometimes censored me. They told me I shouldn't tell any of the other students that one of the teachers got into an accident with students in the car because "they might get scared." They should be scared.
Do you understand what average means?
Do you understand that it is not possible to have a full class of straight-A students because statistically, it's near impossible? That the only way to have a classroom full of straight-A students is if you dumb down the tests enough, or you're teaching material FAR below the capacity of the class?
Do you actually have any idea what you're talking about, or is this the thinly veiled "poor me, everything is everyone else's fault" whine?

Teachers cannot diagnose medical problems.
Teachers cannot prescribe medication.
Teachers do not assume that if they don't have a 98% passing rate, the students are mentally deficient. Maybe that's what you THINK they think, but they don't. I would assume that if all the kids are getting As, the teacher is fucking with the grades.Yes, the all A's comment was an exaggeration. The point I'm making is that I did not act very badly before I was put on medication. I was quiet and non confrontational, I followed the rules, and I got average grades because I didn't always do my homework. I don't think I was a huge problem but they acted like I was. They did expect me to get A's in everything, maybe because I got A's in some things but not others. I can't do everything.

I'm aware that teachers cannot diagnose medical problems. Like I said before they often do it anyway. Even though their diagnosis does not have medical credentials, they can act like it does anyway. As for prescribing medication, I don't think I ever said teachers have prescribed medication. I said they push drugs on people. They can encourage students to take medication and treat them badly if they refuse to comply.
And oh, if you don't get better, normally a decent medical practitioner will look more deeply at the diagnosis to be sure it's correct, alter the dosage or try a different medication -- not "blame the diagnosis". Because what you're saying is that the diagnosis is wrong (and could be, and should then be further investigated and altered) but what you seem to mean is "your behavior is blamed on the emotional or chemical imbalance regardless of whether or not the treatment is successful."I don't think I had a decent medical practitioner. When I brought up problems she told me she didn't really want to hear about them but I could switch medications if I want. Basically Katganistan, you are telling me how things are supposed to be, but that conflicts with my experience.
So basically, because you disagree with the diagnosis of the professional you and your parents selected, who believed that you are not capable of making rational decisions about your care and recommended that your parents remain in legal control of your medical decisions. When your family chose not to take her expert advice, you then became angry because she decided not to treat you anymore.

How does that make her a greedy moron? If you were STILL GOING, she would STILL BE GETTING PAID. She cut off her pay by telling your family, "If you won't take my medical advice, there's nothing more to do here." That doesn't sound greedy, that sounds like someone who doesn't feel like wasting her time or yours, and doesn't feel like wasting your family's money on care you're ignoring.That's not the greedy part. She still has some of the money she stole from my family. My parents paid her more than she gets for her other clients, and she never told my parents that. My mom had to find this out from the insurance company.
I've got a migraine right now, and I'm about to take 600mg of ibuprofen for it. The things that trigger my migraines cannot be avoided -- they are caused by the weather, by changes in air pressure. This one is being driven by a series of squall lines moving over my area. I could feel them coming by the pressure building inside my skull. For about six hours, the migraine was mild enough that I could ignore it, but the storms are still coming through, and the pain now is significant and my vision is starting to go wonky. So it's time to pop some pills. In this case, I think I am managing my migraine appropriately, responding with the right level of medicine to match my current condition. My migraines are far from as bad as migraines can get, so if I were to go ask for a prescription med for migraine, I would be over-medicating myself, imo. Ibuprofen and rest fixes them, so that is the appropriate level of treatment for my condition.I didn't know migraines could come from weather. Migraines are odd.

Given the fact that half the time I feel like I can hardly make myself get out of bed in the morning, I'd say I'm not medicated enough. I can't increase the dosage though, I'm already taking the maximum safe dosage.

Not all teachers pressure parents to drug their kids, and not all schools pressure parents to drug their kids, and NONE, as he suggests, can diagnose and prescribe.
Yes, that's true, and to say otherwise is, at best, mistaken, and at worst, misleading, but I kind of got the feeling VS was engaging in poorly thought-out hyperbole, not speaking literally. So, yes, good to get that clear, and I hope VS corrects himself.

I happen to know of one parent who went to five different doctors before she found one who was willing to look the other way and prescribe as if the child had ADHD -- and now the child has heart problems caused by the medicine. But that, I think, is a separate issue.
I'm not sure it is separate from the OP issue. In that case, it might just be crazy parents engaging in some kind of medical child abuse. On the other hand, it just might be one, possibly extreme, example of what I have been talking about -- people pressuring doctors to diagnose and prescribe on demand and as desired, not relying on the expertise of doctors to guide them. I have mentioned this as part of what contributes to the US being a generally over-medicated society. That's my opinion, anyway.

Everyone has to stop referring to me as a him now.

<snip>

I didn't know migraines could come from weather. Migraines are odd.
Very odd. They take many, many forms (different kinds of headaches and some that are not headaches at all, like disturbances of vision, digestive system, even blood pressure (my mom's migraine syndrome sometimes causes her blood pressure to drop precipitously)), and there seems to be little limit to the list of possible triggers. Basically, nobody knows what causes them or how they really work.

I avoid medication as much as possible. I never get colds because I wash my hands all the time, when I have a head ache I try to take a nap to make it go away(not always possible but it does work). I wait until I'm sure a medical problem won't go away on its own before seeing a doctor or taking anything. (Sometimes a sore stomach lasts for half a week, but goes away on its own)

Everyone has to stop referring to me as a him now.

Sorry, we default to the male pronoun if we don't know the poster's gender.

Edit: If you're that bothered by it, you should update your profile to include your gender a la Ashmoria's location: FEMALE

That's ok. I just use they when I don't know the gender. I don't think it's grammatically correct but it's less awkward to say themself than it is to say him/herself.

Everyone has to stop referring to me as a him now.

Fair enough.

Yes we definitely are. In fact, I was planning to post about this commercial I heard on the radio: "Give your dog these specially-formulated treats and he will be calm. A calm dog is a happy dog" WHAT THE FUCK! Now we are giving our pets ADD meds? What kind of dog doesn't go barking, running around and yelping when the doorbell rings. Jesus F Christ.

ADD doesn't exist. Children don't want to sit still. They want to do stuff and not sit around being lectured or doing worksheets. Honestly, who the hell wants to do worksheets at age 6?

Doctors and pharmaceuticals are just trying to get our money. It's the 21st Century edition of Duffy's Cure-All Powder.

And your credentials are?

He was going to post them, he just got distracted and wandered off.

Isn't it called ADHD anyhow?

ADD doesn't exist.

And your credentials are?

ADD doesn't exist.

Fail

He was going to post them, he just got distracted and wandered off.

Isn't it called ADHD anyhow?It is, but sometimes they diagnose it as ADHD without hyperactivity, and that's lame because it might as well be called ADD.

Everyone has to stop referring to me as a him now.
OK, noted. I'm a she as well, by the way. :)

Pretty much the only meds I take are normal multi vitamins which I guess arent really meds at all. Even when I'm sick I prefer to just wait out the cold or flu and let my immune system handle it on it own the old fashion way. I kinda have a stigma against medication and also fever medicines (my thinking being I dont want my body to ever be dependant on something like that and reducing a fever simply makes it easier for whatever i in me to reproduce faster thus making me less miserable in the mean time but sicker).

I only use medicine when I'm really sick (flu doesn't count, something like strep rather) and even then it is only for the duration of the sickness. Meh, that and I guess I'm lucky to not have gotten seriously ill.

Sometimes the medication is worse than the illness. ABout five years ago, when I was first diagnosed with ADD, my psychiatrist also diagnosed me with mild depression(don't they always?) and prescribed an antidepressant that for some bizzare reason made it almost impossible for me to achieve orgasm. I was more depressed than ever! :pMy Valentine's Day present to you, mon capitan, is Anafranil.
*bows*

IMO more of a problem than prescribing medication for everything is prescribing antibiotics for every viral infection. :headbang:

The answer to that is maybe, maybe not, it depends.

I have high cholesterol, acid reflux and arthritis. I take meds for all three. If I didn't, I would be at risk for heart attack and a damaged esophogus (and possibly esophogeal cancer). I would also be in so much pain, I couldn't move. Technically, I don't have to take the meds to survive, I do have to take them to make the survival worth the effort. I don't consider that I (or people like me) are overmedicated. I consider that we are fortunate to have the means available to ease our problems.

I agree, and if you were replying to my comment I did not mean people like you. I was referring to people that go to he doctor if they have a cold or a cough.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know I'm not over medicated. The two medications I take are doing exactly what I require them to do, and I'm fortunate enough to experience few if any side effects.

IMO more of a problem than prescribing medication for everything is prescribing antibiotics for any viral infection. :headbang:

fixed

And your credentials are?



Evil Lord Xenu told him.

fixed

Oh, I thought I meant to say that. Well, anyway...

IMO more of a problem than prescribing medication for everything is prescribing antibiotics for any and every viral infection. :headbang:

fixed better

Evil Lord Xenu told him.

LOL!

In your opinion. But everyone has different opinions. But, like I said I would say, fair enough. We all have our own opinions. I disagree with yours, and you disagree with mine. Fine with me.
And you still have yet to demonstrate your view is correct.

You can be a wrong, and a wimp, if you want. ;)
If that isn't the height of ignorance, I really don't know what is.


We don't have to to, but maybe sometimes we should.
To what ends? You have yet to prove it solves anything.


Eh, whatever. I don't use medicine, so it doesn't really bother me.
And you can shoot up for all I care, but stop telling reasonable people who make reasonable decsions that they are wrong or somehow inferior.

Not all teachers pressure parents to drug their kids, and not all schools pressure parents to drug their kids, and NONE, as he suggests, can diagnose and prescribe.

I happen to know of one parent who went to five different doctors before she found one who was willing to look the other way and prescribe as if the child had ADHD -- and now the child has heart problems caused by the medicine. But that, I think, is a separate issue.

My brother and I have ADD. My mom decided enough was enough after she realized she didn't recognize her kids any more. I got no hassle what so ever. My borhter's teacher threw a fit. She called my mom, talked to the administration. My mom talked to the school board. Guess who got severely reprimanded for their behavior?

I'm sufficiently medicated. I take the medications I need so that my body will not fall apart/quit working. I think some people are overmedicated because they demand medication from their doctor, I also think some people are overmedicated because doctors over prescribe. My doctor told me on my first visit she doesn't like to prescribe medication until non-medication solutions have been tried and not worked, which works great for me because I don't like to take medicine. I do have health issues though and have to take a minimum amount of medication to be able to function. Big pharma is my hero.

My brother and I have ADD. My mom decided enough was enough after she realized she didn't recognize her kids any more. I got no hassle what so ever. My borhter's teacher threw a fit. She called my mom, talked to the administration. My mom talked to the school board. Guess who got severely reprimanded for their behavior?You left out part of the story here. Are you saying your mom took you and your brother off the meds? And did your brother actually misbehave, or was the teacher being a jerk?

Also, I don't think people who say ADD isn't a real disorder are trying to say that people with short attention spans don't exist. I think they're saying this is a normal personality type that should be tolerated instead of labeled as a disorder. That's a legitimate argument. It's not an argument I agree with, but I think children are put on stimulants far too often. In many cases a person with ADD gets the same effect from sports that they do from medication. Sometimes they just need an outlet for energy.

You left out part of the story here. Are you saying your mom took you and your brother off the meds? And did your brother actually misbehave, or was the teacher being a jerk?
ADD, not ADHD. ADD kids sit quietly and draw or work on homework instead of listening to boring lectures about crap they already know. We were consistently honor roll students, maybe the teacher should have revised the classroom format if she wanted my brother to pay more attention.

Also, I don't think people who say ADD isn't a real disorder are trying to say that people with short attention spans don't exist. I think they're saying this is a normal personality type that should be tolerated instead of labeled as a disorder. That's a legitimate argument. It's not an argument I agree with, but I think children are put on stimulants far too often. In many cases a person with ADD gets the same effect from sports that they do from medication. Sometimes they just need an outlet for energy.
ADD /= ADHD. We weren't and aren't hyper. Sports were boring too. At least, team sports and all sports as put on by schools. Sports are better now that you can sign up for adult leagues and don't have to go to practices and stupid crap like that.

ADD /= ADHD.

Actually, in a sense they are...
http://www.add.org/

Why should I not take a pill if I am depressed, if it makes me feel better?

There's no reason you shouldn't. I take antidepressants everyday. If I didn't, I would probably be suicidal.

I'm severely under medicated.

I recently learned that Adderall is awesome and just what I need.

Actually, in a sense they are...
http://www.add.org/

How can one have ADHD if one isn't hyper? I don't think they have the same IDC9 code either...

How can one have ADHD if one isn't hyper? I don't think they have the same IDC9 code either...
linkage (http://borntoexplore.org/whatisadd.htm)
There are two major types of ADD at this time (this aspect of ADD keeps evolving): ADD with hyperactivity (the traditional type of ADD) and ADD without hyperactivity ("inattentive" type).

linkage (http://borntoexplore.org/whatisadd.htm)

Yeah, that's what I said....

Although if you want to split hairs, the DSM doesn't recognize the term "ADD" it's either ADHD or ADHD-PI, but it's easier to use the terms people are familiar with.

There's no reason you shouldn't. I take antidepressants everyday. If I didn't, I would probably be suicidal.

I'm in the same boat, except for me, it's anxiety. Before I started on the Paxil, I had what I called my 'worry rat,' running in its' little worry wheel, 24/7. I worried about everything, and most of it was nothing that I could affect or even in the realm of possibility. I had panic attacks three or four times a week. Now, I still worry, but not as much, and the panic attacks have dropped significantly. If I hadn't worked up the nerve to call Community Mental Health, i don't know where I'd be right now.

I don't think there can be any disagreement that current drugs are necessary, that they treat real conditions, and that people really benefit from them.

When I think about people being over-medicated, I am only thinking of cases of those drugs being mis-used or over-used. Obviously, if you need a medication and it is having the right effect, then you are not over-medicated. But if you are on medications that you don't need, then you are over-medicated. My view on this is that enough people take meds they don't really need to say, as a generalization of the whole group, that we (Americans) are over-medicated. That is not meant to imply in any way that people who need medication should not take it.

Depends very much on the person, I believe.

Personally, I do suffer from migraines and get attackes about once or twice a month. So I try to stay within reach of Neurofen or Anadin (I can't take Paracetamol, it makes me throw up for some reason). I take them as soon as I feel an attack coming on, as they do help best in the early stages. If I wait too long, nothing will help and I'll just have to see it through. I try avoiding that if at all possible.
But it has to be said that I was raised to be more than a little sceptic of doctors. My mother is a nurse, and some of her friends are nurses and doctors. You do get to hear a lot of disquieting things that way. So I tend to only go see a doctor if really, really, really necessary. In the past decade or so, the only reason I went was to get the pill.

Now, I also know people who tend to go to the doctor for every excuse they can find, even for simple normal colds. Borderline hypochondriacs, you could say.
They definitely ARE overmedicated, but they are because they want to be. I know someone who claims she can't sleep unless she has some Sudafed up her nose... and she's been doing that for 5 years straight, every night.
I think a lot of it might even be some for of mental addiction to being medicated...

Now, I also know people who tend to go to the doctor for every excuse they can find, even for simple normal colds. Borderline hypochondriacs, you could say.
They definitely ARE overmedicated, but they are because they want to be. I know someone who claims she can't sleep unless she has some Sudafed up her nose... and she's been doing that for 5 years straight, every night.
I think a lot of it might even be some for of mental addiction to being medicated...

It's a shame that doctors don't have a procedure to prescribe placebos without the patient knowing (for occasions such as this.)

It's a shame that doctors don't have a procedure to prescribe placebos without the patient knowing (for occasions such as this.)

Some do. They're called Homeopaths. ;)

Depends very much on the person, I believe.

Personally, I do suffer from migraines and get attackes about once or twice a month. So I try to stay within reach of Neurofen or Anadin (I can't take Paracetamol, it makes me throw up for some reason). I take them as soon as I feel an attack coming on, as they do help best in the early stages. If I wait too long, nothing will help and I'll just have to see it through. I try avoiding that if at all possible.
But it has to be said that I was raised to be more than a little sceptic of doctors. My mother is a nurse, and some of her friends are nurses and doctors. You do get to hear a lot of disquieting things that way. So I tend to only go see a doctor if really, really, really necessary. In the past decade or so, the only reason I went was to get the pill.

Now, I also know people who tend to go to the doctor for every excuse they can find, even for simple normal colds. Borderline hypochondriacs, you could say.
They definitely ARE overmedicated, but they are because they want to be. I know someone who claims she can't sleep unless she has some Sudafed up her nose... and she's been doing that for 5 years straight, every night.
I think a lot of it might even be some for of mental addiction to being medicated...Sudafed is a stimulant.

Sometimes people with ADD get a reverse reaction to stimulants, maybe that's her problem.

I know that a few of my colleagues take Tylenol for little things, like a finger cramp, and I consider that to be ridiculous.

But I see no harm in taking medication in moderation, given that it's legal and FDA approved.

i see you place FAR too much thrust in your goverment even if they are aproved i have never seen a smart goverment before in this world but really even if it is allowed have they ever thought about the fact that if you don't sport then at a certain point you can't anymore if they wouldn't have a war for 100 year do you think thier amry could still fight an effective war? the awnser is no because there would be no one to teach those new recruits whatw ar is like becasue there is no one who knows what to do in case of a war this is the same for the body if medicine do all the work the body won't and if that happens your body's imune systme will fall asleep and have no experience in fighting viruses and deceases and well then we take a medicene against those as well but maybe you haven't noticed that a lot of deceases are still able to advoid that medical stuff and run free in your body now if you pcik someone from africa who is constantly being attacked by such bacteria's well i might not even get sick of it at all while someone like the people you mentioned get killed very quickly becasue medicine won't work and neitehr will thier body. its that simple.

Sudafed is a stimulant.

Sometimes people with ADD get a reverse reaction to stimulants, maybe that's her problem.

Is it? I thought it was an anti-inflamatory?

It's both http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoephedrine

It keeps me awake.

It's both http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoephedrine

It keeps me awake.

You can get a variation without pseudoephedrine apparently

Edit: although I don't know if it makes any difference to the effect. My pharmacological knowledge sucks

ADD, not ADHD. ADD kids sit quietly and draw or work on homework instead of listening to boring lectures about crap they already know. We were consistently honor roll students, maybe the teacher should have revised the classroom format if she wanted my brother to pay more attention.


ADD /= ADHD. We weren't and aren't hyper. Sports were boring too. At least, team sports and all sports as put on by schools. Sports are better now that you can sign up for adult leagues and don't have to go to practices and stupid crap like that.

It sounds like you don't have ADD or ADHD. ADD kids may sit quietly, but they are not focused on homework or lectures. They are distracted, even irritated, by random sounds and movements and movements around them - things that aren't even noticed others. These distractions make concentration difficult if not impossible.

Fifty years ago, when I was in elementary school, I was one of those who sat quietly in the back of the class, not listening to the teacher rehash information. I was reading, studying, daydreaming - whatever. My problem had nothing to do with ADD, it had to do with the curriculum being geared to the slowest kids and my resulting boredom.

While ADD and ADHD do exist, most "learning problems" could be alleviated by actually challenging kids. To some extent, in some schools (usually private), that is done. But the current philosophy of education, the one tying funding to test scores, means that most kids are short-changed by a system that wants graphable results not educated people.

Oops, that was almost a rant.

Oops, that was almost a rant.

No need to apologize

It sounds like you don't have ADD or ADHD. ADD kids may sit quietly, but they are not focused on homework or lectures. They are distracted, even irritated, by random sounds and movements and movements around them - things that aren't even noticed others. These distractions make concentration difficult if not impossible.

Fifty years ago, when I was in elementary school, I was one of those who sat quietly in the back of the class, not listening to the teacher rehash information. I was reading, studying, daydreaming - whatever. My problem had nothing to do with ADD, it had to do with the curriculum being geared to the slowest kids and my resulting boredom.

While ADD and ADHD do exist, most "learning problems" could be alleviated by actually challenging kids. To some extent, in some schools (usually private), that is done. But the current philosophy of education, the one tying funding to test scores, means that most kids are short-changed by a system that wants graphable results not educated people.

Oops, that was almost a rant.

Back when me and the bro were diagnosed, they didnt' hand out that diagnosis very often. And there's a heck of a lot more to it, one's classroom performance and behaviour is a very small part of it. It was a pretty extensive evaluation done by a psychiatrist.

Some do. They're called Homeopaths. ;)

Oh no. The vibrations the mercury and aresenic creates in the water really are there. I swear. I um, see in this pamphlet here...



But look at all the testimonial!!!!!!

Oh no. The vibrations the mercury and aresenic creates in the water really are there. I swear. I um, see in this pamphlet here...



But look at all the testimonial!!!!!!

Would that be the testimonial of that dog who had cancer and his owner treated him with homeopathic stuff and it got cured and the dog couldn't possibly have known that the stuff it was given was really just water so it couldn't possibly have been a placebo effect?
I heard that one before, they always seem to drag out that one dog to claim scientific background.... ;)

I find that no matter how medicated I am, I'm undermedicated. But that's life. At least I'm not sick.

I dunno. I'd say it's a fine line to be walked. Especially ones that kill pain. Only ever take them if your doctor thinks you should, and even then a second opinion may not be a bad idea.

After all, pain is your body's way of telling you something's wrong. Whether it's something that you're doing to it, or a problem that you need to get checked.

I have a bulging disc in my spine, which presses against a nerve. This causes my left hip to become essentially one massive fireball of pain on a daily basis, especially when I have to sit a lot.

As someone who's had back surgery for that very thing, I sympathize immensely. I had surgery at 18, which some people considered "too young!" for major surgery, and I have never regretted it. I still have to do physical therapy and take care of my back, but that fire and numbness down my leg is gone.

My mother went through the same thing when I was 5. She, however, being a stoic and strong-willed woman who was raised to ignore pain and not medicate it, chose to grit her teeth and struggle along with it, hoping she could push through it. She did this until she was literally incapacitated by the pain; she had no appetite and became even thinner than normal, she could not longer walk or sit, she couldn't sleep from the agony. She finally let my father carry her into the hospital, and had the surgery. She woke up pain-free.

THC the original 'Fukitol'. Solves everything.:D

Here's my question. Why should I not take a pill if I have a headache, if it makes me feel better? Why should I not take a pill if I am depressed, if it makes me feel better? Why should I not use medication if the result is it makes me feel better?

You went on this little winge on "over medication" but did not actually explain what's wrong with taking medication that makes you feel better.

Because medicaments have side effects that sometimes are worse than the disease you are treating in first place. And because sometimed even medics are not aware of the full extent of these side effects.

By example. I take a cortisonic medication to treat my allergy (only thing that really helps me). The side effects range from personality disorders to kidney failure. This is the reason I take this medicament as rarely as possible (maybe twice a year). Some medics prescribe it for continual use. It is not even a controlled drug in Italy, you may buy it over the counter in most drugstores.

My concern regards the right-wing cultural assault on progress .... to wit, a return to intercessory prayer and the manipulation of the four humors, what with their overt and specific attacks on science.
http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/hippocrates/a/hippocraticmeds.htm

Actually, I find that leftists tend more to be the ones who look at alternative medicines, often indirectly resulting from their hate of pharmaceutical companies.

Some people are. Some people aren't.

Is it? I thought it was an anti-inflamatory?
Aye that's what I use it for (also it knocks me out, which is sometimes pretty useful).