NationStates Jolt Archive

A lawyer who was hired to go to Iraq to help in the reconstruction of the country wrote a scathing memo to the ambassador before he left. I've read the whole 10 page memo http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Manuel_Miranda_1.pdf#http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Manuel_Miranda_1.pdf

and he seems to feel the State Department just doesn’t have the experience to handle the job. In addition to the bureaucratic climate that is pervasive in almost every government department, the people at State just don’t have the experience to do the job.

I’ve worked with civil service while I was in the military, and I have no doubt what this guy is saying is 99.98% correct.

For those of you who don’t want to take the time to read the whole 10 pages, and I highly recommend you do, here is the short version of what he said: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4264672
Although the story is a little slanted it is basically correct in what it is saying.

I started to read the entire memo, and then I became more than one type of annoyed by the political opinions of the one who wrote it and was unable to keep reading.

So I read the summery instead. He's not wrong, certainly. Iraq is one gigantic mess.

The real question is, why is this news? We know this already, and clearly the administration is not willing to listen, so why bother?

I started to read the entire memo, and then I became more than one type of annoyed by the political opinions of the one who wrote it and was unable to keep reading.

So I read the summery instead. He's not wrong, certainly. Iraq is one gigantic mess.

The real question is, why is this news? We know this already, and clearly the administration is not willing to listen, so why bother?

I think what makes this news is the person who wrote the memo was/is a Bush supporter. He went there to help and obviously became very frustrated with the situation.

*sigh* If you ever want to see any opportunity fucked up royally, send in the government and their mob of trained incompetents. The failure to capitalize on the surge is disgusting. Actually, their failure to do anything is disgusting.

That's a pretty scathing report & being a Republican party insider makes it even more interesting.

I'm assuming it was a confidential report that was leaked?

Actually, their failure to do anything is disgusting.

Sounds a lot like the UN doesn't it. :(

Sounds a lot like the UN doesn't it. :(

lolz

In other news, water is wet, fire is hot, and the Pope shits in the woods

Are you really surprised by this?

If you are, you've never had to deal with the State Department before.

Especially when you go to Japan and realize that you left your passport in your cousin's room who left at six in the morning to go climb Mt. Fuji and aren't going to see him again for the remaining duration of the trip.

Are you really surprised by this?

If you are, you've never had to deal with the State Department before.

Especially when you go to Japan and realize that you left your passport in your cousin's room who left at six in the morning to go climb Mt. Fuji and aren't going to see him again for the remaining duration of the trip.

Or being detained by bored, corrupt Hungarian border police at the Romanian border at 3 o'clock in the morning...

In other news, water is wet, fire is hot, and the Pope shits in the woods

The last part is news to me. :eek:

The last part is news to me. :eek:

Oh no, it's been going on for about 2000 years now.

Oh no, it's been going on for about 2000 years now.

I assumed he used a toilet, like the rest of us folks. *shrug*

I assumed he used a toilet, like the rest of us folks. *shrug*

Well, you know what they say about making assumptions.

Well, you know what they say about making assumptions.

Aye.

For the most part look at government workers as a whole. The group could not generally hack it in the real job market where there is competition so they go for a job that doesn't require one to keep their competitive edge for the most part. Laziness and malaise is a big problem with government workers in my opinion. It permeates throughout all levels of the State and Federal government. This is reflected in multiple arenas from intelligence to management of wars. It is a sad state of affairs.

For the most part look at government workers as a whole. The group could not generally hack it in the real job market where there is competition so they go for a job that doesn't require one to keep their competitive edge for the most part. Laziness and malaise is a big problem with government workers in my opinion. It permeates throughout all levels of the State and Federal government. This is reflected in multiple arenas from intelligence to management of wars. It is a sad state of affairs.

You really think there is not competition between high level officials ?
Or, between countries ?

In my life, I always wanted to work for my country, not for making money ( there's no sense doing this ), and I'm not the only one.
Thus, about low level gov workers, what you said is not absolutly false...

The main failure of the US administration is the result of US über power: they aren't able to understand why throwing money, bombs and soldiers couldn't solve a problem.

In other news, water is wet, fire is hot, and the Pope shits in the woods

Curses, beaten to it! :p

Sounds a lot like the UN doesn't it. :(

Yeah, I mean take a look at East Timor. What a **** up that was :rolleyes:.

Celtlund, you need to educate yourself, and stop listening to the propaganda that the UN is useless. The UN is an organisation perfectly suited to the kind of rebuilding work Iraq needs right now.

This RAND Corp case study may interest you. It compares nation-building efforts by the UN and the US.

The UN's role in nation-building : From Congo to Iraq (http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/2005/RAND_MG304.sum.pdf)

In summary, as of 2005, out of the 8 nation-building cases taken up by the UN, 7 were at peace. Out of the 8 nation-building cases taken up by the US, 4 were at peace.

I'm currently taking a read through the lawyers letter, and I'll comment soon.

Although the story is a little slanted it is basically correct in what it is saying.Funny how all the pre-war naysayers worst fears are coming true, isn't it?

Sounds a lot like the UN doesn't it. :(Meh. Call me when the UN gets the Cypriots to stop killing eachother.

No, wait...

I think what makes this news is the person who wrote the memo was/is a Bush supporter. He went there to help and obviously became very frustrated with the situation.
Point.

*sigh* If you ever want to see any opportunity fucked up royally, send in the government and their mob of trained incompetents. The failure to capitalize on the surge is disgusting. Actually, their failure to do anything is disgusting.

You're making a false assumption. All this shows is that this administration is incapable of handling things correctly. Just because one specific administration fails at this does not mean that government will always screw something like this up.

You're making a false assumption. All this shows is that this administration is incapable of handling things correctly. Just because one specific administration fails at this does not mean that government will always screw something like this up.

No, I'm reading a book right now about the Iraq, Vietnam, Greek, and Philippine Wars, and how the incompetence of the government lost (or almost lost in the case of Greece) the war. The fact is, when you hire a bunch of people based on their ability to look pretty and proclaim rhyming platitudes, the government typically doesn't do things very well.

But yes, my opinion may be a bit slanted. My father is a government worker, and he's very critical of what happens in his department.

No, I'm reading a book right now about the Iraq, Vietnam, Greek, and Philippine Wars, and how the incompetence of the government lost (or almost lost in the case of Greece) the war. The fact is, when you hire a bunch of people based on their ability to look pretty and proclaim rhyming platitudes, the government typically doesn't do things very well.

But yes, my opinion may be a bit slanted. My father is a government worker, and he's very critical of what happens in his department.

My point is this: efficient government CAN exist. We simply need to work on it and make it happen. We haven't really tried yet. We do the same things we've always done, go "Oh, those don't work!" and decide to chuck the whole system. No. That's not how you fix something.

A lawyer who was hired to go to Iraq to help in the reconstruction of the country wrote a scathing memo to the ambassador before he left. I've read the whole 10 page memo http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Manuel_Miranda_1.pdf#http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Manuel_Miranda_1.pdf

and he seems to feel the State Department just doesn’t have the experience to handle the job. In addition to the bureaucratic climate that is pervasive in almost every government department, the people at State just don’t have the experience to do the job.

I’ve worked with civil service while I was in the military, and I have no doubt what this guy is saying is 99.98% correct.

For those of you who don’t want to take the time to read the whole 10 pages, and I highly recommend you do, here is the short version of what he said: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4264672
Although the story is a little slanted it is basically correct in what it is saying.


Well, as the state department post war concepts for Iraq were fucked in the bin by Rumsfeld and co, really they're picking up the pieces of the Pentagon mess, as far as I understand it. Secondly, the original crowd that were sent out there were those who applied for jobs in things like the PNAC and the American Enterprise Institute, so incomptent as this bunch might be, they are a step up from what preceded them.

So the Bush administration fails in every way when it comes to rebuilding. How bizarre... :rolleyes:

Sounds a lot like the UN doesn't it. :(

No, not really.

I assumed he used a toilet, like the rest of us folks. *shrug*

The Pope brings a toilet with him when he goes camping or hunting?

[QUOTE=UN Protectorates;13435056This RAND Corp case study may interest you. It compares nation-building efforts by the UN and the US.

The UN's role in nation-building : From Congo to Iraq (http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/2005/RAND_MG304.sum.pdf)[/QUOTE]

Thanks. I've downloaded it and will read it later.

Point.



You're making a false assumption. All this shows is that this administration is incapable of handling things correctly. Just because one specific administration fails at this does not mean that government will always screw something like this up.

Very true. I think we did a pretty good job of rebuilding Japan and Germany.

Thanks. I've downloaded it and will read it later.

Thank you for taking the time. Excuse me if I seemed disrespectful in my previous post.

As for the letter, it seems the US needs a good shake up of the State Department. I hope the points raised by this lawyer are taken to heart.