NationStates Jolt Archive

Another school shooting. (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/02/08/la.tech.shooting/index.html)

Apologies in advance if this has been posted already. If it has, please let me know, so I can have the mods delete it.

Another school shooting. (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/02/08/la.tech.shooting/index.html)

Apologies in advance if this has been posted already. If it has, please let me know, so I can have the mods delete it.
What the hell. People should take their anger out on pillows instead of people.


Also, I don't think it was reported here on NSG, but last night in Kirkwood, MO (around the St. Louis area) there was a City council shooting. 6 or so people died in that.

What the hell. People should take their anger out on pillows instead of people.


Also, I don't think it was reported here on NSG, but last night in Kirkwood, MO (around the St. Louis area) there was a City council shooting. 6 or so people died in that.

That's terrible. What is this world coming to? :(

First female school shooter?

I believe so, though I'm not 100% certain.

I think I should be afraid. I've heard about so many school shootings I didn't really react to this. I just felt kind of numb. When something this bad happens often enough so that this happens, people should be worried.

First female school shooter?



Also, from the sounds of it(one shooter killing only two others in a single classroom, ten herself) it could just have been a murder/suicide that happened to be on a school campus rather than a spree shooting in the style of V-Tech/Columbine/etc.




In b4 gun debate.

Another school shooting. (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/02/08/la.tech.shooting/index.html)

Apologies in advance if this has been posted already. If it has, please let me know, so I can have the mods delete it.

I think it's a new story here.
Damn, you know this will start another gun debate?
shame really.

First female school shooter?



Also, from the sounds of it(one shooter killing only two others in a single classroom, ten herself) it could just have been a murder/suicide that happened to be on a school campus rather than a spree shooting in the style of V-Tech/Columbine/etc.




In b4 gun debate.

Still, an angry person killing others is no good, no matter if its columbine or just a vendetta or something. -sigh- I never will understand what drives a person to kill another breathing, living being.

Still, an angry person killing others is no good, no matter if its columbine or just a vendetta or something. -sigh- I never will understand what drives a person to kill another breathing, living being.

Desperation and despair.

Damn. Again?! Virginia Tech wasn't all that long ago. What. The. F***!

Real shame. But its an isolated insident which happened to occur in school.

BTW- I hope I made it before the gun debate. Or did I just start it?

But reall thoughts to the families.

Damn. Again?! Virginia Tech wasn't all that long ago. What. The. F***!

Yes, this stupid bitch needed a calendar.

Still, an angry person killing others is no good, no matter if its columbine or just a vendetta or something. -sigh- I never will understand what drives a person to kill another breathing, living being.

Yes, but someone killing other people because of some conflict between them(possibly) is not quite as bad as some people just being fucking insane and having no regard for human life.

First female school shooter?

.

Nay, Brenda Ann Spencer of "don't like Mondays" fame was in 1979 so theres at least one previous.

*starts gun debate*

I am a bonefide gun nut, but, seriously, we are gona need more gun control if this crap doesn't stop.

Isn't this like the third multiple death shooting in the past week? Is it like "let's get all our shootings done now while everyone's thinking about it" or what? Copycats? Coincidence? Media just highlighting a few specific shootings to make it look like a trend?

Nay, Brenda Ann Spencer of "don't like Mondays" fame was in 1979 so theres at least one previous.

Oh yeah.

*checks wiki*

Fuck me, happened on my birthday.

Fuck me, happened on my birthday.

I'll need a better reason than that. :p

I don't think it should be a right of people to own firearms.


At the risk of sounding like a hippy, guns just lead to trouble.

I'll need a better reason than that. :p

Ifreann is sexy & available. Is that good enough for you?


To the serious topic of the thread, it's a terrible situation & I really feel for the friends & families of these poor people.

At what point will enough people look at these recurring situations & say "Enough is enough, we need to do something about this"? I'm glad I don't live in the USA.

Never mind gun control, treat the cause of school shootings.

[satire]Schools, the modern person's shooting range[satire/] :(

its so sad when this happens I'd like to know what went so wrong

and who does this on a Friday? :mad:

Why not just admit that schools are jails?

Disarm the prisoners and arm the guards. Put in some damn bars and chuck the troublemakers into solitary.

At what point will enough people look at these recurring situations & say "Enough is enough, we need to do something about this"? I'm glad I don't live in the USA.

The question is, what do we do? We can't make a kneejerk decision based on emotion. We must step back and look at this situation logically.

I don't think it should be a right of people to own firearms.


At the risk of sounding like a hippy, guns just lead to trouble.

...and...it begins...

Disarm the prisoners and arm the guards. Put in some damn bars and chuck the troublemakers into solitary.

schools shootings usually aren't made by trouble makers though and just making kids shit scared to move won't help their psychology

what we need is much more training for teachers, maybe sacking a few incapable ones (seeing as how teachers have a pretty big effect on what happens in classrooms), more staff and more money (all of which will not happen)

I really don't know, that's why I didn't suggest anything. You really shouldn't have to worry about being shot though as you're attending school.

I never did. Luckly, school shootings remain a real rarity. A statistical blip. Although, I would like to see a group get together and come up with some ways to prevent these incidents beyond the "OMtehG b3N t3h EBul Gunz!1!1!!1!!!!!11!!".

The question is, what do we do? We can't make a kneejerk decision based on emotion. We must step back and look at this situation logically.

I really don't know, that's why I didn't suggest anything. You really shouldn't have to worry about being shot though as you're attending school.

schools shootings usually aren't made by trouble makers though and just making kids shit scared to move won't help their psychology

what we need is much more training for teachers, maybe sacking a few incapable ones (seeing as how teachers have a pretty big effect on what happens in classrooms), more staff and more money (all of which will not happen)

The problem is that, despite what the NEA tells you, throwing money at the education problem won't solve it. NY public schools get double of what my school got per pupil, but my school was not even comparable to the average NY school. The problems with the US public school system goes far, far beyond money.

I never did. Luckly, school shootings remain a real rarity. A statistical blip. Although, I would like to see a group get together and come up with some ways to prevent these incidents beyond the "OMtehG b3N t3h EBul Gunz!1!1!!1!!!!!11!!".

Fair enough, but they seem to be a fairly regular statistical blip, with at least 2 or 3 a year. To me, that is unacceptable.

schools shootings usually aren't made by trouble makers though

That's true. The kids who are always in trouble have a far better developed sense of deniability ... of costs and benefits of wrongdoing. Calling someone a racist name is deniable, stealing their lunch money is partially deniable (maybe a suspension but not criminal charges) ... blow someone away with a gun and the little bullying empire comes crashing down. Do that, and you opt out of normal school.

and just making kids shit scared to move won't help their psychology

Y'know, I think education is an utterly wonderful thing for those who want it. It pulls you out of immanence, out of the quagmire of "free choice" constrained by personal experience (and in the case of kids, manufactured personal choice) and gives you your human rights by making you an abstract human, a citizen.

Education ... is freedom. So why do we need to force it on children? What kind of freedom needs compulsion to make it attractive? Why do we close all other options (full-time work) to children, if education is such a self-evident good?

It's a puzzle to me. Even in the poorest countries, children know that education is their way forward. Their self-interest (well developed before any social conscience) leads them to choose education over work ... yet in the West, so many children see only the whip hand, the compulsion. They see education as a trial, a gauntlet to be run.

This, quite simply, is what we are doing wrong. If we are determined that mandatory education is right, we must spend and spend until we bleed, to make it work for all kids. Until we bleed, I say! To the ruination of our economies ... until education spending is the majority of government spending, and all our adult fantasies of national defense or national parks or national culture or industry have to be abandoned.

That is the burden we take on, when as a society we choose to educate children. It was a simple thing, in a simpler age where children carried gunpowder or picked the lint out of looms. We served their interests by making them sit in schoolrooms ... but that was then.

what we need is much more training for teachers, maybe sacking a few incapable ones (seeing as how teachers have a pretty big effect on what happens in classrooms), more staff and more money (all of which will not happen)

Sure it could. Teaching is hard work when schools double as jails. Teaching should be attractive the way medicine was attractive in the seventies and eighties, the way law was attractive in the eighties and nineties. It should pay insanely well, it should pay like being a CEO of a big corporation ... then when you have the talent investing the years of training necessary to get into this desirable field of employment, it's not a hard decision to "sack" a lousy teacher ... the bad ones never even get in front of a class, the way a lousy doctor should never see a patient and a lousy lawyer should never see a court. You have a competitive field, a surfeit of the best and brightest wanting to be teachers.

It can happen. It needs to be presented as a human rights issue, the issue of jailing children. If we insist on doing this crazy thing, we must do it well.

But really, the up-marketing of teaching is not my favoured option. It's a compelled decision if we are stupid enough to hang on to mandatory education.

My preferred option is to pay kids to go to school. Pay them the minimum wage, in a real minimum-wage society where it is illegal to employ anyone (adult or child, legal or illegal immigrant) for less than the minimum wage. If they can earn better money in the private sector, let the kids go to work instead of going to school. If someone will pay for their unique talents, above the minimum wage, that person will also see to their education if the kid does not themselves.

Yes, that means a society where kids are as well paid as the worst-paid adult. By the fiat of the State, as the provision of a Right. A sort of reverse Slavery, where we acknowledge that we will not give children the same right as other Citizens, and ... COMPENSATE them for that!

It's a simple matter of self-interest. If kids don't have the foresight to see that education will improve their future earnings (and kids in the third world KNOW that from a young age) then they fall back on the guidance of their parents. They need to be persuaded, perhaps they need a year or two in the labor market to make that decision ... but if education is an absolute good, even a kid should be able to choose it ... or else it is not an absolute good, and then we have no place forcing it on anyone.

I realize I'm trying to hijack the thread away from hand-wringing despair at kids killing each other with guns. And yes, I'm drunk.

Fair enough, but they seem to be a fairly regular statistical blip, with at least 2 or 3 a year. To me, that is unacceptable.

It's a question of scale. There are a fuck of a lot of kids in school.

They don't kill each other all that often, really. :)

I don't think it should be a right of people to own firearms.


At the risk of sounding like a hippy, guns just lead to trouble.

Really? I have a firearm. When I'm not at the range with it, it just sits there in its case, which is in a safe. It does not lead to trouble, as it's an inanimate object. People lead to trouble.

Really? I have a firearm. When I'm not at the range with it, it just sits there in its case, which is in a safe. It does not lead to trouble, as it's an inanimate object. People lead to trouble.

Just out of pure curiosity, is it a handgun or a rifle?

Just out of pure curiosity, is it a handgun or a rifle?

Rifle. I've posted a pic here before, but here it is again.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1135/1000045ur3.jpg

... People lead to trouble.

Kill 'em all.

Rifle. I've posted a pic here before, but here it is again.


Surely you mean "Evil Black Terrorist Hyjacker 9/11 Osama Bin Ladin Assault Weapon"?

Surely you mean "Evil Black Terrorist Hyjacker 9/11 Osama Bin Ladin Assault Weapon"?

o.O

I really don't know, that's why I didn't suggest anything. You really shouldn't have to worry about being shot though as you're attending school.

You don't.

So why does it keep happening then?

A few isolated cases.

Sad, but woopdeedoo.

I never thought about it in high school. Why worry over something that has a less than 1% (pulled figure out of my ass) chance of happening? You don't. Simple as that. If it happens, then fuck. You better get your fellow classmates, bum rush the fucker, and beat him to death. He can't shoot all of you.

You don't.

So why does it keep happening then?

*starts gun debate*

I am a bonefide gun nut, but, seriously, we are gona need more gun control if this crap doesn't stop.

Yea because there's no way that they could get their hands on guns illegally It's just impossible! :rolleyes:

If they allow the CCW student to carry their piece on Campus, then we'd be getting somewhere.

Also, my thought goes out for the family and friends of the victim as well as the victim themselves.

Surely you mean "Evil Black Terrorist Hyjacker 9/11 Osama Bin Ladin Assault Weapon"?

Nope. My rifle wasn't even made at the time of the September 11th attacks (I know this because I bought the complete upper and complete lower as separate items from separate vendors, and assembled them in 2006) , and also it's not an assault weapon, according to the definitions of CT general statute 53-202a.