NationStates Jolt Archive

Should immigrants to America that become citizens be required to read, speak and write in English? I feel that they should. The U.S. spends millions on copying forms in languages like Spanish and French. Not to mention companies need to hire translators. I'm not saying that people cannot speak their native language in their home or community (if most people speak that language), but that they be able to read write and speak in English. Thoughts?

Should immigrants to America that become citizens be required to read, speak and write in English? I feel that they should. The U.S. spends millions on copying forms in languages like Spanish and French. Not to mention companies need to hire translators. I'm not saying that people cannot speak their native language in their home or community (if most people speak that language), but that they be able to read write and speak in English. Thoughts?

I agree with you completely.

No. I do not think it should be a requirement.

I'm not sure I'd be opposed to the idea of English being the only lagnuage used in offical business and public life in America.

I think this would prevent poorer immigrants from coming here, so no, I do not support it. It has always taken a while for immigrants to acclimate to America: just look at places like Chinatown or Little Italy.
In fact, the first English immigrants still haven't acclimated. ;)

This is a big issue here in Québec that should everyone speek french. But trust me, you simply need to give them what they need to learn andthey will. Anyone need to understand is new environement and neiborhood. Maybe the first generation will not perfectly learned it, but the second should not even have a accent!

This is a big issue here in Québec that should everyone speek french. But trust me, you simply need to give them what they need to learn andthey will. Anyone need to understand is new environement and neiborhood. Maybe the first generation will not perfectly learned it, but the second should not even have a accent!

This from the province who's refused to learn English for, what, 100+ years, despite being under English rule.

Make them learn English, or you'll end up with a state that is almost completely Spanish and they'll think too much of themselves.

This is a big issue here in Québec that should everyone speek french. But trust me, you simply need to give them what they need to learn andthey will. Anyone need to understand is new environement and neiborhood. Maybe the first generation will not perfectly learned it, but the second should not even have a accent!

Why not have accents though? Speaking would be rather monotonous if we didn't have different flavors of the same language.

I can dig it.

This is a big issue here in Québec that should everyone speek french.
Quebec isn't an independent nation, issue addressed.

Should immigrants to America that become citizens be required to read, speak and write in English? I feel that they should. The U.S. spends millions on copying forms in languages like Spanish and French. Not to mention companies need to hire translators. I'm not saying that people cannot speak their native language in their home or community (if most people speak that language), but that they be able to read write and speak in English. Thoughts?

It probably shouldn't be required, but immigrants shouldn't get pissed off at me when I can't understand them. It happened far too often at my former job (slot attendant at a casino). They need to ask for a translator if they can't understand me, so they don't say "yes" or "no" to a question they shouldn't answer without understanding the consequences.

Because every immagrint comes from a country where they have the resources to learn another language fluently

Apa katamu? What about Cockney? Does intelligible English also counts?

Should immigrants to America that become citizens be required to read, speak and write in English? I feel that they should. The U.S. spends millions on copying forms in languages like Spanish and French. Not to mention companies need to hire translators. I'm not saying that people cannot speak their native language in their home or community (if most people speak that language), but that they be able to read write and speak in English. Thoughts?

Yes I agree if someone is moving into a=n English speaking country then they should learn to read write and speak it not come into the country and expect that they just need to speak their mother language and that is all it should be a requirement. You can be damn sure that if we were to move into their country they wouldn't give us a whole lot of help if we refused to learn their language as it should be and we shouldn't be allowing them to continue like this

The idea that people who are currently moving to the US the most (latinos) dont try to learn English is a myth prepetuated by people of questionable motives and integruity.

You know, I've lived in several different countries...Germany, Italy, Saudi Arabia, England. I've visited quite a few nations other than those. In most of these nations, if you don't speak the local language, the natives will not make any effort to adapt to your language. They don't have bi-lingual signs. They don't have bi-lingual forms. They don't have friendly neighborhood convenience stores with "We Speak English" blazoned on the window. They expect you're going to speak their language.

There is nothing wrong with this. When I lived or visited in these countries, I made the attempt to learn the basics...sure, I couldn't speak fluently (or even a poor pidgin), but I was able to order things from stores or restaurants and understand basic directions.

How, then, is it so astounding that our country asks that immigrants learn the most commonly used language in our country? I have no problem at all with the newspapers in spanish or chinese. I have no problem with the radio stations in french. These are paid for with private corporate money. I DO have a problem with our government spending additional money to translate government forms, signs, etc. into however many other languages are deemed necessary by the "politically correct".

The idea that people who are currently moving to the US the most (latinos) dont try to learn English is a myth prepetuated by people of questionable motives and integruity.

You obviously don't live in the central valley in California. I work in a tax office which also accepts PG&E payments. Probably 1/3 of the people coming in to pay their bills do not speak English. They don't even speak enough to understand us when we tell them how much they need to pay. We have to write it down (in numbers) for them.

And it's not that they're brand new in the country. We've had some people who have come in for a few years, and they speak no more English now than they did when they started coming in.

Do some immigrants strive to learn English when they move here? Yes. Do all of them? No. Why should they bother when they're aided and abetted in their effort not to learn.

i totally agree with seaquest1102. it should be required. if i was to become a citizen of lets say germany. of course i have to learn the language. no country will make an accomedation to my ignorance, that i am moving to a foreign alien country and know not word one. countrys that cater to other laguages are for economical gain for example tourism. translation = wasted $$$.

The idea that people who are currently moving to the US the most (latinos) dont try to learn English is a myth prepetuated by people of questionable motives and integruity.

Actually no it isn't perpetuated by people of questionable motives. It is actively being fought by hispanics...

Hispanic Caucus protests English-only provision

House Democrats have an immigration problem on their hands.

Angry Hispanic lawmakers enraged party leaders Friday morning by staging a procedural protest on the floor against English-only requirements added to a spending bill last night.

These same Hispanic Democrats wanted to show their leaders that they are upset about the party’s perceived shift in support of enforcement-only immigration standards. <snip>

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/1107/Hispanic_Caucus_protests_Englishonly_provision.html

With the technology of the world today, communication between people of different languages and producing multi-language documents are so easy. If someone wants to permanently live in an English country, they'll probably want to learn to language out of their own free will. But what's the big deal?

Canada is bilingual and the French speaking group is much smaller than the Spanish speaking group of the USA.

You know, I've lived in several different countries...Germany, Italy, Saudi Arabia, England. I've visited quite a few nations other than those. In most of these nations, if you don't speak the local language, the natives will not make any effort to adapt to your language. They don't have bi-lingual signs. They don't have bi-lingual forms. They don't have friendly neighborhood convenience stores with "We Speak English" blazoned on the window. They expect you're going to speak their language.

There is nothing wrong with this. When I lived or visited in these countries, I made the attempt to learn the basics...sure, I couldn't speak fluently (or even a poor pidgin), but I was able to order things from stores or restaurants and understand basic directions.

How, then, is it so astounding that our country asks that immigrants learn the most commonly used language in our country? I have no problem at all with the newspapers in spanish or chinese. I have no problem with the radio stations in french. These are paid for with private corporate money. I DO have a problem with our government spending additional money to translate government forms, signs, etc. into however many other languages are deemed necessary by the "politically correct".

England doesn't have a large Spanish-speaking population. That's why.

Besides, last time I was in England I was walking around West London looking at shop signs, displays, adverts - all in Polish. Go further west and Southall's station name is written in two languages - English and another (Hindi?). You can request government booklets and information in something like thirty languages. There are many different languages spoken and if one language is large enough then that local area does adapt to it. If there was one group that was large enough, "natives" would be trying to learn the language and street signs would be bilingual.

I don't see what is politically correct about translating into Spanish and I can't believe that the amount of money spent on translation is really what drives these complaints.

You know, I've lived in several different countries...Germany, Italy, Saudi Arabia, England. I've visited quite a few nations other than those. In most of these nations, if you don't speak the local language, the natives will not make any effort to adapt to your language. They don't have bi-lingual signs. They don't have bi-lingual forms. They don't have friendly neighborhood convenience stores with "We Speak English" blazoned on the window. They expect you're going to speak their language.

There is nothing wrong with this. When I lived or visited in these countries, I made the attempt to learn the basics...sure, I couldn't speak fluently (or even a poor pidgin), but I was able to order things from stores or restaurants and understand basic directions.

How, then, is it so astounding that our country asks that immigrants learn the most commonly used language in our country? I have no problem at all with the newspapers in spanish or chinese. I have no problem with the radio stations in french. These are paid for with private corporate money. I DO have a problem with our government spending additional money to translate government forms, signs, etc. into however many other languages are deemed necessary by the "politically correct".

I live in Soutern California and am bilignual (English is my first tongue, Espanol mi segunda lengua) and talk with Hispanics in Spanish all the time. Personally, I believe we should increase funding for foreign langue clases and ELSD or "english as a second language devolpment" so that more people can be bilingual if they so choose. Knowing multiple languages is incredibly rewarding and helps you speak your native language better.

I, for one, find it ironic that those most fervently opposed to Spanish books in libraries, legal documents, and whatever are those dissproportionately the worst grasp of English and the poorest English test scores: the South(east) I will completely stop speaking English the day "ain't" is admitted to the OED Leetspeek has slaughtered the language to its extremest. I can't take it any further.

Immigrants should have at least moderate proficiency with the language, basically a decent vocabulary of English to simplify communication. Americans shouldn't necessarily be forced to adopt the language of foreigners coming into the country. Immigrants are here to work hard and make a decent living, but they should respect America somewhat and gain some level of understanding of the language.

Should fluency be a requirement? No. All I'm saying is that its practical for immigrants to gain some understanding of English if they plan to work in the US because it simplifies things and is not as much of a major drag on the economy and government.

I support making English a requirement for Immigration to America, however since not all immigrants will be able to learn English in their native countries I would support a system where you have x amount of years to learn it after coming here and if you don't learn it or atleast try to learn it, than you pay higher taxes or something like that, something that will provide an incentive to learn it beyond the fact that the vast majority of people (there are places where this is'nt true obviously) speak English.


Of course when it comes right down to it I want everyone to speak English as a Universal common language, I'm not a fan of uber diversity (not counting the environmental kind).

Of course when it comes right down to it I want everyone to speak English as a Universal common language, I'm not a fan of uber diversity (not counting the environmental kind).

If you want to go with the whole universal common language thing you should probably learn Mandarin. You've got a much bigger chance of things taking off that way.

Should immigrants to America that become citizens be required to read, speak and write in English? I feel that they should. The U.S. spends millions on copying forms in languages like Spanish and French. Not to mention companies need to hire translators. I'm not saying that people cannot speak their native language in their home or community (if most people speak that language), but that they be able to read write and speak in English. Thoughts?

It absolutely should be a requierment. It would save the gov't, and Corporate world billions of dollars annually. Plus it makes a fair amount of sense for their convenience too.

Of course when it comes right down to it I want everyone to speak English as a Universal common language, I'm not a fan of uber diversity

I cannot begin to my revulsion at such thinking. Do you even know any other languages? How incredibly close-minded can you be? The fact that humanity can convey itself through more than one language is a positive affects the world in mroe ways than you can imagine. One could never truly understand the Bible without Hebrew or Greek, the Koran without Arabic, Cervantes without Spanish, Confucius without Chinese? Millions upon billions of fantastic literature (and to a lesser extent movies and other somewhat verbal media) would be inextricably warped if English became the first language of every person on the planet within one generation. There would be native speakers to interperet for other how to understand the finest nuances of a language and the translations would suffer enormously from that.

Besides, other languages can get their words for "orange" to rhyme and English as we know it today will die out in a few centuries. Beowolf was composed in England around 600 or 700 AD but if you tried to read it, you would think in some Middle-Earth language. And with only one language popularly spoken, how would you have conversations in the middle of a line about how fat or retarded-looking someone in front of you is without them noticing? You couldn't. You would need a different language so your friend and you could laugh or shake your heads for no apparent reason.

Because every immagrint comes from a country where they have the resources to learn another language fluently

Yep, because the OP stated that all people who try to get American citizenship will be summarily executed in a gruesome fashion if they are not fluent. I am using hyperbole, but it expresses my point.

No one said fluent (except you), I "can" "speak" German, fluently? not by along shot, but could I get by in Germany? Passably, yes.

The idea that people who are currently moving to the US the most (latinos) dont try to learn English is a myth prepetuated by people of questionable motives and integruity.

Sources?

I live in Soutern California and am bilignual (English is my first tongue, Espanol mi segunda lengua) and talk with Hispanics in Spanish all the time. Personally, I believe we should increase funding for foreign langue clases and ELSD or "english as a second language devolpment" so that more people can be bilingual if they so choose. Knowing multiple languages is incredibly rewarding and helps you speak your native language better.

I, for one, find it ironic that those most fervently opposed to Spanish books in libraries, legal documents, and whatever are those dissproportionately the worst grasp of English and the poorest English test scores: the South(east) I will completely stop speaking English the day "ain't" is admitted to the OED Leetspeek has slaughtered the language to its extremest. I can't take it any further.


I agree. I would have no problem with a bilingual person choosing to speak with a foreigner in their own tongue, if it is generally more comfortable for both of them... however, it should not be expected. I can speak passable German, but if I went there, I would gladly speak in English here and there if the Germans could speak better English than my German... but I could still get around in German.

What nobody mentions is that this Speak English or Git Out crap is a totally new thing. My great-grandparents were born and grew up in a German-speaking community here in the US. We're a nation of (mostly) immigrants, and the fact that English is a dominant language is only an accident of history what with the English colonizers being the main political force in our part of the continent. There is no cultural principle for the establishment of English as being The American Language, especially since there are plenty of indigenous American languages that we have no right to displace. And I don't consider majority-rules to be an appropriate basis for foisting an official language on the entire population. By that reasoning, if Latino becomes the dominant ethnicity in the future, then we should change the official language to Spanish. No, when we say the government has the right to impose itself in areas that aren't crucial to protecting human life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, then we've lost sight of what justifies government in the first place, what it means to be American.

Sources?
That most Hispanics aren't learning the language?
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071129/NEWS18/71129052

They mirror the exact same immigrant experience that everyone else has.

Oh boy, yet another "THEMS BROWN PEOPLE AIN'T LEARNIN' OUR LANGUAGE! THEY ALL NEED TO SPEAK AMERICAN!" rant. Let me make it clear, to become an American citizen a person MUST be able to read and speak English at about a 5th grade level, this is good enough to everyday events. This is NOT good enough to read and vote on a ballot though. Are you sure you really want to disenfranchise some Americans?

Absolutely not. To do so would achieve nothing except giving xenophobes a great big hard-on.

Oh boy, yet another "THEMS BROWN PEOPLE AIN'T LEARNIN' OUR LANGUAGE! THEY ALL NEED TO SPEAK AMERICAN!" rant. Let me make it clear, to become an American citizen a person MUST be able to read and speak English at about a 5th grade level, this is good enough to everyday events. This is NOT good enough to read and vote on a ballot though. Are you sure you really want to disenfranchise some Americans?

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/TheSteveslols/english-first-language.jpg

I believe in the old saying: When in Rome, speak as the Romans do. If I went to France, I wouldn't expect the locals to speak English. If I was going to stay there for any length of time, I'd try to learn French.

I believe in the old saying: When in Rome, speak as the Romans do. If I went to France, I wouldn't expect the locals to speak English. If I was going to stay there for any length of time, I'd try to learn French.

This always comes up. Are immigrants or tourists actually expecting/demanding/requesting that Americans learn their language? Or is it that some business owners have seen that they can make more money by offering their services in other common languages? I suspect the latter.

If I went to America I wouldn't expect anyone there to speak any Irish, but if I happened to find someone who does, then why shouldn't I be able to speak Irish to them? And if that person was working behind a till, why shouldn't we be allowed to conduct our business in Irish?

Oh, and the saying is 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do'.

Communication is a matter of need not accomodation. That goes both ways.

These things will work themselves out in time. I see no reason for people to get their nipples in a bunch over it. *nod*

Should immigrants learn the language of the country? Yes. Should we provide services in other languages? Yes.

I know I said yes to both but here's what I think...

It's probably easy for an immigrant to learn English for everyday use but what happens in an emergency? After panic sets in... would they be able to communicate properly, since time is often of essence in these cases.

Immigrants have to be able to read signs and announcements. So they should be able to speak and read English. But if we want them to speak English, we should have to set up (free) courses for immigrants.

Should immigrants learn the language of the country? Yes. Should we provide services in other languages? Yes.

I know I said yes to both but here's what I think...

It's probably easy for an immigrant to learn English for everyday use but what happens in an emergency? After panic sets in... would they be able to communicate properly, since time is often of essence in these cases.

Is 'Should they.....' the same as 'Should they have to.....'? While learning English would obviously be hugely helpful if you're going to live in America, I don't think it should be a legal requirement.

Oh boy, yet another "THEMS BROWN PEOPLE AIN'T LEARNIN' OUR LANGUAGE! THEY ALL NEED TO SPEAK AMERICAN!" rant. Let me make it clear, to become an American citizen a person MUST be able to read and speak English at about a 5th grade level, this is good enough to everyday events. This is NOT good enough to read and vote on a ballot though. Are you sure you really want to disenfranchise some Americans?

Yes that is correct and for those who are working towards legally becoming Americans through the proper channels that have been in place for years, my hats off to them and I commend them. I ask no more than that.

I think what most people are concerned about is that 20 million hispanics have no intention of going through the legal channels and becoming American citizens through any manner except amnesty. At which point in time do you think they are going to learn the English language to any grade level?

Until they are actually Americans legally perhaps they should be more concerned with disenfranchising those who are citizens in the country in which they chose to become squatters.

Until Spanish becomes the majority language, then everybody should be forced to learn Spanish.

Until Spanish becomes the majority language, then everybody should be forced to learn Spanish.

I'm gonna start shipping some Polish people into America, so you'll all have to learn Polish.

Yes that is correct and for those who are working towards legally becoming Americans through the proper channels that have been in place for years, my hats off to them and I commend them. I ask no more than that.

I think what most people are concerned about is that 20 million hispanics have no intention of going through the legal channels and becoming American citizens through any manner except amnesty. At which point in time do you think they are going to learn the English language to any grade level?

Until they are actually Americans legally perhaps they should be more concerned with disenfranchising those who are citizens in the country in which they chose to become squatters.
Well you've certainly proven that some Americans, native or no, can't read.

Why don't you try to go back and see that nice news article that says that the Hispanic population, illegal or not, is mirroring every other immigrant population with the second generation being mostly fluent and the third damn near completely? Then I recommend you read up on immigrating into the US where you can legally come in and reside in the US without becoming a US citizen, something many people do. A lot of legal immigrants (Green card holders) don't want to become US citizens, but still need access to government services, and, again, those that do become citizens are not required to learn English to a level to understand a petition. Hell, native born Americans can't understand ballot questions either.

I believe in the old saying: When in Rome, speak as the Romans do. If I went to France, I wouldn't expect the locals to speak English. If I was going to stay there for any length of time, I'd try to learn French.
Try actually living in another non-English speaking country and see how far you get. Tell ya what, I'll invite you to come over to Japan, but I'm not going to help you once you get to Narita, let's see if you can actually make it into Tokyo without any help from someone who can speak English.

This push for "English only" is all about denying government sevices to illegal immigrants.

I'm gonna start shipping some Polish people into America, so you'll all have to learn Polish.

Oh hell no! Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.

/is polish
/took polish classes as a kid
/can't speak a word of it

Well you've certainly proven that some Americans, native or no, can't read.

Why don't you try to go back and see that nice news article that says that the Hispanic population, illegal or not, is mirroring every other immigrant population with the second generation being mostly fluent and the third damn near completely? Then I recommend you read up on immigrating into the US where you can legally come in and reside in the US without becoming a US citizen, something many people do. A lot of legal immigrants (Green card holders) don't want to become US citizens, but still need access to government services, and, again, those that do become citizens are not required to learn English to a level to understand a petition. Hell, native born Americans can't understand ballot questions either.

LMAO :p

Oh hell no! Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.

/is polish
/took polish classes as a kid
/can't speak a word of it

I've picked up a word or two from Aerou. As I understand it Polish is the hardest language to learn. Native Polish speakers at 16 are as fluent as native English speakers at 14, or so I hear.

I've picked up a word or two from Aerou. As I understand it Polish is the hardest language to learn. Native Polish speakers at 16 are as fluent as native English speakers at 14, or so I hear.

Actually, my previous statement isn't completely true. I do, for sure, know 1 word (dupa). That's because my grandmother always used to yell at me, "I'm going to smack you in your dupa if you don't start acting nice", or some variation of that.

The ironic thing about this whole debate is that it tends to focus on Hispanics in the USA. It is ironic because they are shown as an example of immigrants who refuse to learn the native language.

What is commonly ignored by those who argue such a position is that Spanish has been around longer in the southwest USA than English has (http://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/americanvarieties/spanglish/usa/).

In other words, it's the anglophones who are refusing to learn the native tongue. Or history, apparently.

If we force everyone in America to speak Dutch. Wouldn't that solve the problem?

The ironic thing about this whole debate is that it tends to focus on Hispanics in the USA. It is ironic because they are shown as an example of immigrants who refuse to learn the native language.

What is commonly ignored by those who argue such a position is that Spanish has been around longer in the southwest USA than English has (http://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/americanvarieties/spanglish/usa/).

In other words, it's the anglophones who are refusing to learn the native tongue. Or history, apparently.

Xenophobes are often immune to facts.

Xenophobes are often immune to facts.

Only strange, immigrant facts...

Only strange, immigrant facts...

'Dem facts wont lern demselvs the langwitch!'

Only strange, immigrant facts...

The word immigrant is itself an immigrant. It moved here in 1832 to avoid being translated into German.

I've picked up a word or two from Aerou. As I understand it Polish is the hardest language to learn. Native Polish speakers at 16 are as fluent as native English speakers at 14, or so I hear.

Apparently all Slavic languages are hell to learn. Difficult grammar.

I'd first like to see all "native users" of English to learn it... the spelling you can see online (sometimes even on official pages, the USA 'lottery for green card' page springs to mind first) is too often simply atrocious.

And no, English isn't my first language, I learned it in school. So if (and when) I make silly mistakes, I at least have a good excuse. :p

If we force everyone in America to speak Dutch. Wouldn't that solve the problem?
I think we have the solution! Everyone knows Dutch people are better at English than English people anyway.

i totally agree with seaquest1102. it should be required. if i was to become a citizen of lets say germany. of course i have to learn the language. no country will make an accomedation to my ignorance, that i am moving to a foreign alien country and know not word one. countrys that cater to other laguages are for economical gain for example tourism. translation = wasted $$$.

I'm sorry, but you serve as a great example of my previous post... :rolleyes:

Should immigrants to America that become citizens be required to read, speak and write in English?

At least speak it and read and write well enough to get through. I currently live in Spain, and I think the same for Arabs, Sub-Saharan Africans and Eastern Europeans that move to Spain. But, in Spain given the standard Spaniard's ineptitude towards learning a foreign language, they're sort of forced to learn Spanish. :p

Should immigrants to America that become citizens be required to read, speak and write in English? I feel that they should. The U.S. spends millions on copying forms in languages like Spanish and French. Not to mention companies need to hire translators. I'm not saying that people cannot speak their native language in their home or community (if most people speak that language), but that they be able to read write and speak in English. Thoughts?

Well, they already are required, as the citizenship test is given in English:

"Most applicants must also have a working knowledge of the English language.[2] There are exceptions, introduced in 1990, for long-resident older applicants and those with mental or physical disabilities"

To all those people that say "Well, why don't we just make everone learn dutch or french or spanish?" Sorry, but English happens to be the language that 98+% of people in the US have "very good" comprehension of right now.

PS It may interest some to know that until very recently, the US had no official language (its english, just so we're clear). During the writing of the Constitution and such, the fathers were debating on what language to use. English was not high on their list, cause it was the "tyrannical language." Choices included French and Greek (their top choice). They didn't implement one cause, well everone would have had to learn a completely different language, and most people just spoke English, and there was greater diversity.

Now, without a national language, more people speak English, and since English is one of the International languages (the other being French. These are what a translated at the Olympics, no matter what country its in), why not make al US immigrants learn English? Aside from the fact that, they already are.

The ironic thing about this whole debate is that it tends to focus on Hispanics in the USA. It is ironic because they are shown as an example of immigrants who refuse to learn the native language.

What is commonly ignored by those who argue such a position is that Spanish has been around longer in the southwest USA than English has (http://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/americanvarieties/spanglish/usa/).

In other words, it's the anglophones who are refusing to learn the native tongue. Or history, apparently.

Spanish was also the most common language on the west coast for a while. French was mightily popular up by the Great Lakes, German was exclusively used in certain areas, and many railroad workers spoke exclusively Chinese.

Does this mean we should all have to speak Spanish when on the west coast and the south, French while up by the great lakes, German in the various east coast towns, and Chinese whenever we're on the railroad?

Hey, how about we go even further back. The various native american languages were spoken exclusively for hundreds of years, long before Spanish, English, Chinese, or any of the others came to the continent. Let's all learn Navajo!


Regardless of what language was historically the majority, the majority in this country, at this time, is English. Immigrants should make an effort to learn English. Do I ever expect first generation immigrants to be perfect at it? No, learning a new language, especially later in life, is damned hard. Do I expect them to make the effort and eventually be able to get by in this country speaking English? Yes.

And for all the sad people claiming my view is xenophobic, perhaps you should look up the word. Currently it has become a catch-all derogatory term for people who believe any other race or nationality should conform to the rules and language of their adopted homeland, even if it's just asking they conform while in public places.

What xenophobia actually means is: An unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers. Most of the people supporting the idea immigrants should learn English don't hate or fear foreigners. We simply believe it's a waste of public monies to enable them in their quest to avoid adapting to their new homeland.

When you move to a new country, you *must* accept that the new country will not conform to your standards of behaviour, your social expectations, or your language. If you are unwilling to adapt to these, at least in public, perhaps you should consider whether immigration is right for you. Keeping your own country alive in the privacy of your own home, speaking your native language exclusively in your own home, isn't going to anger anyone (except perhaps those who are truly xenophobic). Insisting your new country adapt to you...well, that's a little arrogant and should be quashed quickly.

PS It may interest some to know that until very recently, the US had no official language (its english, just so we're clear).
What? Since when?
why not make al US immigrants learn English? Aside from the fact that, they already are.

Because there are no good reasons to. What exactly would be achieved by requiring all immigrants to learn English(something which isn't required of 'native' citizens)?

This push for "English only" is all about denying government sevices to illegal immigrants.

Well, the keyword there is "illegal". In my own very biased opinion illegal immigrants deserve nothing, only legal ones do. And I participated that debate already (it went on for 70+ pages, I think), so don't start.

Sorry, but English happens to be the language that 98+% of people in the US have "very good" comprehension of right now.

Source?

From what I've seen on the interwebs, only about 30% of the native English-users actually know their own language. :p

Well, the keyword there is "illegal". In my own very biased opinion illegal immigrants deserve nothing, only legal ones do. And I participated that debate already (it went on for 70+ pages, I think), so don't start.

*flees in terror from impending argument*

PS It may interest some to know that until very recently, the US had no official language
What? Since when?

Actually that's true. I remember the news (it was in the Odd News section at Yahoo! News :p) when it was finally decided and I remember reading it with my mouth open. The chatspeak "WTF" was a very good 'word' for my feelings at the time. :cool:

*flees in terror from impending argument*

Hey, come back! Unless I completely misremember, you were involved in that one too! :D

Because there are no good reasons to. What exactly would be achieved by requiring all immigrants to learn English(something which isn't required of 'native' citizens)?

Exactly. While learning the language of your adopted homeland would be a good idea, there's no real reason to try and force it on people.

While I think immigrants should make the effort to learn the language, I cannot see any reason for the government to enforce it.

Because there are no good reasons to. What exactly would be achieved by requiring all immigrants to learn English(something which isn't required of 'native' citizens)?

Immigrats are, at the most basic level, a resource for the country of America. When we are adding resources, obviously America wants the people that will conribute the most to society. Contributing to society involves communication and interaction with the other people of this country, and since English is the language undestood "very well" by over 98% of the country, it does make sense that new citizens are required to have a comprehension of the language.

True, native citizens do not have the same requirement. Additionally, those people who can't read, write, or speak English with a minimal fluency contribute very little to society. Just cause there exist people in the US at this low standard doesn't mean we should let this happen with immingrants.

Immigrants do not have a right to immigrate to the US, which is why there are limits. It is America's job to better itself, and part of that is only allowing immigrants that will contribute to society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geolana
PS It may interest some to know that until very recently, the US had no official language (its english, just so we're clear).

What? Since when?


Hmm, I probably should have checked that before I posted it. I know that recently we did not have a national language, because there was an NFL debate topic on it while congress was going over whether to implement it. Someone told me later that they did, and I took their word for it. Let me double-check that.
...
"On May 8, 2007, Senator James M. Inhofe (R-Okla.) introduced Senate Bill S.1335, which would declare English as the official language of the government of the United States. The bill would require that the U.S. government conduct its official activities in English, repeal federal bilingual voting requirements, and require naturalization ceremonies to be conducted solely in the English language. The bill contains a provision preventing it from pre-empting any law of any U.S. state.[7]"

After further checking, they haven't done jack shit on this bill since May 2007, but its not dead. I was mistaken.

PS I am for requiring immigrants to learn English, but against declaring English as the National Language. The former does something; the latter is pointless.

Source?

From what I've seen on the interwebs, only about 30% of the native English-users actually know their own language

Debate research for NFL Public Forum? lol Sorry, but I don't remember the exact source. A different stat (from Wikipedia) has English comprehension at 96% of populace.

Spanish was also the most common language on the west coast for a while. French was mightily popular up by the Great Lakes, German was exclusively used in certain areas, and many railroad workers spoke exclusively Chinese.

Does this mean we should all have to speak Spanish when on the west coast and the south, French while up by the great lakes, German in the various east coast towns, and Chinese whenever we're on the railroad?

Hey, how about we go even further back. The various native american languages were spoken exclusively for hundreds of years, long before Spanish, English, Chinese, or any of the others came to the continent. Let's all learn Navajo!

Spanish has been consistently spoken in the southwest USA by a large percentage of the population from the beginnings of the USA until the present time. It is not an immigrant language. It is more native to the area than English. I do think that anglophones should make an effort to speak Spanish when they are there.

Regardless of what language was historically the majority, the majority in this country, at this time, is English. Immigrants should make an effort to learn English. Do I ever expect first generation immigrants to be perfect at it? No, learning a new language, especially later in life, is damned hard. Do I expect them to make the effort and eventually be able to get by in this country speaking English? Yes.

In many places in the USA, Spanish is the majority language. Immigrants to those regions should make an effort to learn Spanish. No one expects the anglos to be fluent right away, but one would hope that anglos would make the effort.

We simply believe it's a waste of public monies to enable them in their quest to avoid adapting to their new homeland.

Since Hispanics in the southwest USA are not immigrants, they are not avoiding any adaptation to a new land. They are trying to stop others (i.e. militant anglophones) from changing their homeland.

Should immigrants to America that become citizens be required to read, speak and write in English? I feel that they should. The U.S. spends millions on copying forms in languages like Spanish and French. Not to mention companies need to hire translators. I'm not saying that people cannot speak their native language in their home or community (if most people speak that language), but that they be able to read write and speak in English. Thoughts?

I'm not american but I agree that all immmigrants to the UK (above the age of say 10) should be required to learn english before they become entitled to any benefits. My local NHS hospital spends 150,000 GB Pounds ($300,000) a year on translating all its literature into 7 languages.
I shall be emigrating to Spain in 2 years time but I am already fluent in Spanish (and French) and intend to learn some catalan. :fluffle:

Exactly. While learning the language of your adopted homeland would be a good idea, there's no real reason to try and force it on people.

While I think immigrants should make the effort to learn the language, I cannot see any reason for the government to enforce it.

I also do not see any reason for the government to enable it. All government services should be printed/offered in the majority language *only*.

Just as an example: Los Angeles County (just the county) in 2003 spent 3.3 million dollars on ballots printed in 5 languages. The total amount spent on the election was just over 22 million. That's a fairly substantial portion of the budge (and a fairly substantial portion coming out of taxpayer's pockets) just for this service.

I shall be emigrating to Spain in 2 years time but I am already fluent in Spanish (and French) and intend to learn some catalan. :fluffle:

What part of Spain? I recently 'emigrated' to Spain (well, I'm a Spanish citizen) from the United States (dual citizenship); going from the U.S. Army to the Spanish Army.

Since Hispanics in the southwest USA are not immigrants, they are not avoiding any adaptation to a new land. They are trying to stop others (i.e. militant anglophones) from changing their homeland.

You know, it was the most bizarre thing. Just last year, I passed through several of the southern states, and ended up spending almost a week in New Mexico.

Do you know, even speaking English, I was understood. All the signs were in English, the local newspapers were in English...why, even most of the natives I conversed with spoke English.

Isn't that completely freakish? I mean, here I was in the part of the country where the majority speak Spanish...and yet, everything around me was in English.

I see more Hispanic culture and representation right here in California, where the majority of the people DO speak English. So somehow I'm not buying your argument.

I also do not see any reason for the government to enable it. All government services should be printed/offered in the majority language *only*.

That would make it very difficult for many taxpaying citizens in the area to enjoy the government services. Can you giove me a good reason why we should make life so difficult for these people, other than to satisfy your monolingual ideology?

You know, it was the most bizarre thing. Just last year, I passed through several of the southern states, and ended up spending almost a week in New Mexico.

Do you know, even speaking English, I was understood. All the signs were in English, the local newspapers were in English...why, even most of the natives I conversed with spoke English.

Isn't that completely freakish? I mean, here I was in the part of the country where the majority speak Spanish...and yet, everything around me was in English.

I see more Hispanic culture and representation right here in California, where the majority of the people DO speak English. So somehow I'm not buying your argument.

Which argument are you not buying? I ask this because I am not clear how your post had anything to do with mine.

Speaking of funny things you see in that area of the world, most Mexicans will automatically reply in English when they hear any accent other than Mexican. All the fluent spanish speakers I know find this a little odd, but humourous. I think it has to do with the fact that they have lived side by side with anglophones for so long that they became multilingual as a society.

It's a pity that US society seems to be incapable of that.

The UK has programs for teaching immigrants how to read, write and speak English. I think they should be made compulsory - it strengthens community cohesion to have a shared language.

It also improves the lot of immigrants here, improving job prospects and ability to integrate into society.

I also do not see any reason for the government to enable it. All government services should be printed/offered in the majority language *only*.

Disenfranchising people ftw!

Could anyone tell we why immigrants have the right to have all services provided to them in the language of their choice, rather than just one set language that 98% of the population understands?

You obviously don't live in the central valley in California.


No, I live in Northern Illinois, which has its fair share of hispanics. In fact, I grew up in an area 3 minutes from a town that was about 60% hispanic, and went to a school that was 50% white, 45% hispanic, and 5% other.

Should immigrants to America that become citizens be required to read, speak and write in English? I feel that they should. The U.S. spends millions on copying forms in languages like Spanish and French. Not to mention companies need to hire translators. I'm not saying that people cannot speak their native language in their home or community (if most people speak that language), but that they be able to read write and speak in English. Thoughts?

Americans can't even speak english, so why should anyone else have to?

Sources?



http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071129/NEWS18/71129052



As I said, the idea that hispanics arent trying or dont want to learn english is a myth prepetuated by those with questionable motives and integruity, ie nativists, xenophobes, and racists.

Speaking of funny things you see in that area of the world, most Mexicans will automatically reply in English when they hear any accent other than Mexican. All the fluent spanish speakers I know find this a little odd, but humourous. I think it has to do with the fact that they have lived side by side with anglophones for so long that they became multilingual as a society.

Really? Because, you know, around where I live, we have a large multitude of hispanic individuals who don't speak English. At all. And where I work we tend to meet most of the people in the community.

You've obviously never really actually visited Mexico, have you? Other than the incredibly touristy areas where, indeed, many of the Mexicans speak English. Going down with your friends and partying in an area where the economic factors determine bilingualism doesn't count.

Because they have the right to equal protection under the law. If getting the services that every other citizen gets requires those services to be provided in another language, then they have to be provided in another language.

Yes, definitely. Whether they speak the language of the majority or not, we're still talking about US citizens here. We should be encouraging them to learn the language, if only to cut out the middleman, but not forcing them to.

Collary to KoL's post: The closer you get to Chicago, the more Polish speakers you find. "Mowimy Polsku" is fast becoming as common as "Hablo espanol"

Could anyone tell we why immigrants have the right to have all services provided to them in the language of their choice, rather than just one set language that 98% of the population understands?

Because they have the right to equal protection under the law. If getting the services that every other citizen gets requires those services to be provided in another language, then they have to be provided in another language.

Because they have the right to equal protection under the law. If getting the services that every other citizen gets requires those services to be provided in another language, then they have to be provided in another language.

Ah, I see. Well, to avoid this expense, it would only make sense that the US requires every immigrant to have a comprehension of English, correct? Problem averted. Thats just pure economic thinking.

wrong spelling = Aluminum

right spelling = Aluminium

wrong spelling = Color

right spelling = Colour

I could go on...but like I said...if you want to complain about people not being able to use the english language you should look to yourselves first :)

Or learn to recognize post-independence French influence ;)

wrong spelling = Aluminum

right spelling = Aluminium

wrong spelling = Color

right spelling = Colour


Thats the British way of spelling Aluminum? I must start to use that now.
I may live in America, but I love using British spellings, just to laugh at my spell-check when it says its wrong.

wrong spelling = Aluminum

right spelling = Aluminium

wrong spelling = Color

right spelling = Colour

I could go on...but like I said...if you want to complain about people not being able to use the english language you should look to yourselves first :)

wrong spelling = Aluminum

right spelling = Aluminium

wrong spelling = Color

right spelling = Colour

I could go on...but like I said...if you want to complain about people not being able to use the english language you should look to yourselves first :)



We just drop the useless letter.;)

Really? Because, you know, around where I live, we have a large multitude of hispanic individuals who don't speak English. At all. And where I work we tend to meet most of the people in the community.

What does this have to do with anything? I mean, other than showing you why you should learn Spanish (if that is what the majority of your community speaks)....

You've obviously never really actually visited Mexico, have you? Other than the incredibly touristy areas where, indeed, many of the Mexicans speak English. Going down with your friends and partying in an area where the economic factors determine bilingualism doesn't count.

What does have to do with anything either?I was merely pointing out that many Mexicans have made an effort to become bilingual. This is true no matter how many (or few) times I've visited Mexico.

You know, I've lived in several different countries...Germany, Italy, Saudi Arabia, England. I've visited quite a few nations other than those. In most of these nations, if you don't speak the local language, the natives will not make any effort to adapt to your language. They don't have bi-lingual signs. They don't have bi-lingual forms. They don't have friendly neighborhood convenience stores with "We Speak English" blazoned on the window. They expect you're going to speak their language.

There is nothing wrong with this. When I lived or visited in these countries, I made the attempt to learn the basics...sure, I couldn't speak fluently (or even a poor pidgin), but I was able to order things from stores or restaurants and understand basic directions.

How, then, is it so astounding that our country asks that immigrants learn the most commonly used language in our country? I have no problem at all with the newspapers in spanish or chinese. I have no problem with the radio stations in french. These are paid for with private corporate money. I DO have a problem with our government spending additional money to translate government forms, signs, etc. into however many other languages are deemed necessary by the "politically correct".

Exactly, I'm not saying people can't speakwhatever they want at home and in private companies but when it comes down to the government, there technically is no law making English the national language so its legal, but I think stuff should only be in English. Many immigrants came here and learned English and all immigrants can. I think English should be the official language on the government level. Not a requirement to get into the country but all government documents should be in English and English should be a requirement for a governmetn job.

There was a Carlos Mencia joke when he was talking aboout the DMV and how the tests are in every language imaginable but all the signs you need to read are in English. So really I think you're right.

wrong spelling = Aluminum

right spelling = Aluminium

wrong spelling = Color

right spelling = Colour

I could go on...but like I said...if you want to complain about people not being able to use the english language you should look to yourselves first :)

Yes, but color and others are newer,revised forms which are still 100% recognizable and you'd have to be totally incompitent to not understand.

With the possible exception of the revised center from centre. Really centre looks like it would be pronounced sentry, but you'd still have to an idiot to know its pronounced sent-err.

Should immigrants to America that become citizens be required to read, speak and write in English? I feel that they should. The U.S. spends millions on copying forms in languages like Spanish and French. Not to mention companies need to hire translators. I'm not saying that people cannot speak their native language in their home or community (if most people speak that language), but that they be able to read write and speak in English. Thoughts?

No...
English is not the offical language of the U.S. so I see no reason for said requirement.

There was a Carlos Mencia joke when he was talking aboout the DMV and how the tests are in every language imaginable but all the signs you need to read are in English. So really I think you're right.



Your arguemet fails because you reference Carlos Mencia;)

With the possible exception of the revised center from centre. Really centre looks like it would be pronounced sentry, but you'd still have to an idiot to know its pronounced sent-err.

Yeah this one particularly sticks in my throat and I find it offensive...I mean come on...center...looks like the workings of an illiterate school kid...centre looks so much better on a page.

Thats the British way of spelling Aluminum? I must start to use that now.
I may live in America, but I love using British spellings, just to laugh at my spell-check when it says its wrong.

And its pronounced Al - oo - min - ee - um ;)

Yeah this one particularly sticks in my throat and I find it offensive...I mean come on...center...looks like the workings of an illiterate school kid...centre looks so much better on a page.

Centre is also closer to the french etymological root. But if you want to say that something is centered between two other points, I find that centred is just wrong.

Ker-razy shit.

Possibly. Which is all the more reason to flee.

So how many tax paying legal citizens would have been unable to vote if the ballots had been only in English? $3.3 million sure sounds like it could make a whole lot of ballots after the actual cost of translation. Ultimately one has to wonder exactly how many people you'd cut out of the democratic process(such as it is in America) just to save a given amount of money.

Wal eff'n they kin't speak inglish then they sh'dn't vote ennyways. :rolleyes:

I feel that Spanish and English should be official languages of the US, and that we need better foreign language education in our schools. I personally don't feel french represent a big enough majority of the US that they deserve to have things translated for them. Of course, I also support the annexation of Mexico! So, whatever.

Actually that's true. I remember the news (it was in the Odd News section at Yahoo! News :p) when it was finally decided and I remember reading it with my mouth open. The chatspeak "WTF" was a very good 'word' for my feelings at the time. :cool:
Ker-razy shit.
Hey, come back! Unless I completely misremember, you were involved in that one too! :D
Possibly. Which is all the more reason to flee.
I also do not see any reason for the government to enable it. All government services should be printed/offered in the majority language *only*.

Just as an example: Los Angeles County (just the county) in 2003 spent 3.3 million dollars on ballots printed in 5 languages. The total amount spent on the election was just over 22 million. That's a fairly substantial portion of the budge (and a fairly substantial portion coming out of taxpayer's pockets) just for this service.
So how many tax paying legal citizens would have been unable to vote if the ballots had been only in English? $3.3 million sure sounds like it could make a whole lot of ballots after the actual cost of translation. Ultimately one has to wonder exactly how many people you'd cut out of the democratic process(such as it is in America) just to save a given amount of money.

Should immigrants to America that become citizens be required to read, speak and write in English? I feel that they should. The U.S. spends millions on copying forms in languages like Spanish and French. Not to mention companies need to hire translators. I'm not saying that people cannot speak their native language in their home or community (if most people speak that language), but that they be able to read write and speak in English. Thoughts?

Yes, absolutely. I don't understand how you need to learn English to become a citizen, but can vote in other languages. This is an English country and that needs to be affirmed and enforced to the fullest extent.

Yes, absolutely. I don't understand how you need to learn English to become a citizen, but can vote in other languages. This is an English country and that needs to be affirmed and enforced to the fullest extent.

Perhaps by declaring subservience to Her Royal Highness?

Perhaps by declaring subservience to Her Royal Highness?

That was funny.

Yes, absolutely. I don't understand how you need to learn English to become a citizen, but can vote in other languages. This is an English country and that needs to be affirmed and enforced to the fullest extent.

* adds Sel Appa to list of ignorant bigots

That was funny.

Well what's more English than the Queen?



Nothing, that's what.

Well what's more English than the Queen?



Nothing, that's what.

And a great response it was indeed.

This is a big issue here in Québec that should everyone speek french. But trust me, you simply need to give them what they need to learn andthey will. Anyone need to understand is new environement and neiborhood. Maybe the first generation will not perfectly learned it, but the second should not even have a accent!Quebec isn't an independent nation, issue addressed.Yeah, you lost the referendum, now go learn some English, and -if you are good- your children will speak white with no accent :D

The idea that every separate ethnic region of a country should have a separate language is not only absurd, but also painfully ignorant.

The purpose behind a common language is to facilitate society, economy, and generally the welfare of the nation. The deviation of common languages would be a hindrance to all of these things.

This is exhibited in almost every country in the world. Go to Italy, you'll find every citizen speaks Italian. They don't have a city here who speaks French, another city there which speaks Spanish, etc. They all speak Italian.

The same theory works in Egypt, Brazil, England, Russia, and almost every other country across the world (substituting Italian for the appropriate native language, of course). Are there bilingual individuals within each of these societies? Yes. Should bilingualism be encouraged? Absolutely. Should a society have a single language which every individual is expected to know, in addition to any other languages they might be fluent in? Unequivocally YES.

How, then, is America different, other than having a large group of people on this forum who are eager to bash it and its many and varied faults, real or imagined? How will it benefit the USA to support multiple languages, instead (as with every other country) of one commonly used one?

I support, 100%, the right of any individual within this nation to maintain his own, original culture. I believe firmly in the rights of individuals to keep their house exactly as they did in their homeland, to speak to each other in whatever language they choose. However, when dealing with the public, when dealing with government functions, or when dealing with others who do not speak their language, they should know enough of the common language to communicate as necessary.

The idea that every separate ethnic region of a country should have a separate language is not only absurd, but also painfully ignorant.

Good thing no one's arguing that.

The purpose behind a common language is to facilitate society, economy, and generally the welfare of the nation. The deviation of common languages would be a hindrance to all of these things.

No, the purpose of having a common language is to communicate. On a social level, language can also be used a social unifier. In other words, people can use language to make communities feel closer together, though this can also entail treating outsiders like dirt because they don't speak the language.

This is exhibited in almost every country in the world. Go to Italy, you'll find every citizen speaks Italian. They don't have a city here who speaks French, another city there which speaks Spanish, etc. They all speak Italian.

The same theory works in Egypt, Brazil, England, Russia, and almost every other country across the world (substituting Italian for the appropriate native language, of course). Are there bilingual individuals within each of these societies? Yes. Should bilingualism be encouraged? Absolutely. Should a society have a single language which every individual is expected to know, in addition to any other languages they might be fluent in? Unequivocally YES.

But having a single language is not necessary for social cohesion, even if it customary. Just ask the Swiss.

How, then, is America different, other than having a large group of people on this forum who are eager to bash it and its many and varied faults, real or imagined? How will it benefit the USA to support multiple languages, instead (as with every other country) of one commonly used one?

The USA is different because it has had substantial and ongoing Hispanic communities throughout its entire history. Therefore, the benefit would be not losing a substantial part of your own history and culture. And quit with the complaints about USA bashing. It just makes you look like you can't defend yourself in the debate.

I support, 100%, the right of any individual within this nation to maintain his own, original culture. I believe firmly in the rights of individuals to keep their house exactly as they did in their homeland, to speak to each other in whatever language they choose. However, when dealing with the public, when dealing with government functions, or when dealing with others who do not speak their language, they should know enough of the common language to communicate as necessary.

Are you under the impression that immigrants are not aware of this? Or that they don't try to learn English? Guess what? Every single immigrant who lands in the USA wants to learn English as fast as possible so they can get a good job. There is already a large economic incentive to learning English.

Americans can't even speak english, so why should anyone else have to?

LOL

Sigging that.

Yes I agree if someone is moving into a=n English speaking country then they should learn to read write and speak it not come into the country and expect that they just need to speak their mother language and that is all it should be a requirement. You can be damn sure that if we were to move into their country they wouldn't give us a whole lot of help if we refused to learn their language as it should be and we shouldn't be allowing them to continue like this

Funny thing is that in the US, foreginers demand that we provide them with government forms in their native language, but in their country, that is not allowed at all. As a matter of fact, in some countries that demand all rights of citizens from the US, you cannot have the same rights as a foreigner...

"Article 32. (14)Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable. In time of peace no foreigner can serve in the Army nor in the police or public security forces."

"Article 33. Foreigners are those who do not possess the qualifications set forth in Article 30. They are entitled to the guarantees granted by Chapter I, Title I, of the present Constitution; but the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action.

Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country."
http://www.ilstu.edu/class/hist263/docs/1917const.html#Article30

Are you under the impression that immigrants are not aware of this? Or that they don't try to learn English? Guess what? Every single immigrant who lands in the USA wants to learn English as fast as possible so they can get a good job. There is already a large economic incentive to learning English.

No, every single immigrant to this country does NOT want to learn English. Many of them are quite satisfied not speaking English.

It's wonderful to have such fervent optimism about the goals and attitudes of others. Unfortunately, this optimism rarely stands up in the face of reality.

Among Mexican immigrants, 71 percent say they speak English only a little or not at all. For South American-born immigrants, the figure's 44 percent; for Cubans, 57 percent; for Central Americans, 62 percent; for Dominicans, 64 percent.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/northwest/chi-language_30nov30,1,7969260.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

But wait! There's more! As for Switzerland..."Traditionally, Switzerland is home to a large anglophone community. The English language is very widespread and is used as a link between Switzerland's various linguistic communities."

Wow! They have a common language they use to communicate. Isn't that absolutely astounding?

No, every single immigrant to this country does NOT want to learn English. Many of them are quite satisfied not speaking English.

It's wonderful to have such fervent optimism about the goals and attitudes of others. Unfortunately, this optimism rarely stands up in the face of reality.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/northwest/chi-language_30nov30,1,7969260.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
But wait! It looks like you forgot that Hispanics are indeed learning English by the second generation and THAT mirrors every other immigrant that's come through America! Wow! Imagine that! Of course we can't let Hispanics have the same breaks that our grandfathers had now can we?

But wait! There's more! As for Switzerland..."Traditionally, Switzerland is home to a large anglophone community. The English language is very widespread and is used as a link between Switzerland's various linguistic communities."

Wow! They have a common language they use to communicate. Isn't that absolutely astounding?
Well if you want a nice example, look to Canada, two official languages, don't seem to have a problem there functioning.

Yes, absolutely. I don't understand how you need to learn English to become a citizen, but can vote in other languages. This is an English country and that needs to be affirmed and enforced to the fullest extent.
Because working command of English does not equal ability to understand the legalese required by US government documents and ballot questions. I have a working command of Japanese, doesn't mean I can understand the forms at the immigration center here (Which, since Japan is an enlightened country, they have in ENGLISH). My wife has a very strong command of English, she still relies on me to file taxes for her each year and she attended university in America.

Like I said, many Americans cannot understand these things without help, why should we demand that second language learners do so?

This is a big issue here in Québec that should everyone speek french. But trust me, you simply need to give them what they need to learn andthey will. Anyone need to understand is new environement and neiborhood. Maybe the first generation will not perfectly learned it, but the second should not even have a accent!

Quebec needs to learn English, damnit! >.< It's so frustrating that all the head offices are in the East and despite being in BC we still regularly receive memos in French. You people need to realize that most of us only learn as much French as is forced upon us in school, and we forget it as soon as possible afterward.

wrong spelling = Aluminum

right spelling = Aluminium

wrong spelling = Color

right spelling = Colour

I could go on...but like I said...if you want to complain about people not being able to use the english language you should look to yourselves first :)

Actually, it's generally accepted that both Aluminum and Aluminium are correct. It's the same with Color and Colour.

Actually, it's generally accepted that both Aluminum and Aluminium are correct. It's the same with Color and Colour.

And if you want to get really petty, "Color" is closer to the original English. The added "u" is French influence from after the U.S. colonies were established that we (the U.S.) never picked up.

Actually, it's generally accepted that both Aluminum and Aluminium are correct. It's the same with Color and Colour.

Actually its not fucking generally accepted by the Oxford English dictionary...and thats the only book that matters...so take your american bastardisations elsewhere :cool:

And if you want to get really petty, "Color" is closer to the original English. The added "u" is French influence from after the U.S. colonies were established that we (the U.S.) never picked up.

somebody doesn't know their language history...a vast proportion of the english language is derived from French when the Normans invaded with germanic as the predominant influence of old english as its predecessor and that was way before any semblance of a colony in the US.

But then I wouldn't want to be petty ;)

Americans can't even speak english, so why should anyone else have to?

:D

Actually its not fucking generally accepted by the Oxford English dictionary...and thats the only book that matters...so take your american bastardisations elsewhere :cool:

While the Oxford English dictionary is held by many in high regard, it's not the only dictionary in the English speaking world. And there's no need for swearing.

Should immigrants to America that become citizens be required to read, speak and write in English? I feel that they should. The U.S. spends millions on copying forms in languages like Spanish and French. Not to mention companies need to hire translators. I'm not saying that people cannot speak their native language in their home or community (if most people speak that language), but that they be able to read write and speak in English. Thoughts?

I think adult immigrants should be able to speak basic english ("hello", "good bye", "my name is") but I don't think it should matter in the case of refugees.

Way back in the 1700s, the founding fathers thought that we should have an official language, but for some reason or another they never got around to making it official. I think that we should take a cue from them and implement their plan. EVERYONE MUST SPEAK HEBREW.

I think it should be a requirement

If i were had emigrated to another (non-english speaking) nation i would at least learn the language and customs. It's just common courtesy

It's just common courtesy

Holding the door open is a common courtesy. That's not a legal requirement.

It is a commonly known fact that USA English is a) different to English and b) More akin to how English was spoken when the USA was discovered/stolen/invented.
What has changed in UK english is the natural evolution of the language given the influences prevalent in the UK in the past few centuries and in the USA it has evolved given the influences thereupon.
Having said that, 300 years before the USA was discovered/stolen/invented you can guarantee that the people would deride and tut at the slovenly way the language was being used by the people living 300 years hence.

It is true to say that UK english has direct influences from French, German, Latin etc, however it is also true to say that it has influenced these languages equally directly.
It is not possible to disseminate what is the "correct" version of English because the variations are nothing more than dialectual anomalies and the dropping of the U from Colour does not represent a deviation enough to classify USA english as a seperate language.
Having said that, Scots is the correct language!

AMK
xxx

Should immigrants to America that become citizens be required to read, speak and write in English? I feel that they should. The U.S. spends millions on copying forms in languages like Spanish and French. Not to mention companies need to hire translators. I'm not saying that people cannot speak their native language in their home or community (if most people speak that language), but that they be able to read write and speak in English. Thoughts?

By all means. My grandparents had to leard English when they came to this country. They worked during the day and went to night school to learn English so that they could make a better life for themselves and their children. We have no obligation to make things easier for immigrants, especially illegal ones. Here in Texas, voting ballots are in English, Spanish & Vietnamese. I thought you had to be able to read ENglish to vote?? Sad. Very sad.

By all means. My grandparents had to leard English when they came to this country. They worked during the day and went to night school to learn English so that they could make a better life for themselves and their children. We have no obligation to make things easier for immigrants, especially illegal ones. Here in Texas, voting ballots are in English, Spanish & Vietnamese. I thought you had to be able to read ENglish to vote?? Sad. Very sad.
Apparently you didn't have to leard ENglish though...

Since you didn't read the thread, let me restate again, the English requirement for citizenship in the US is around a 5th grade level, such a level is fine for day to day living, shopping, and understanding most of a newspaper, it does not suffice to be able to read and comprehend legal documents, ballot questions, tax forms, and medical decisions (depending). Since you can't take a translator in with you to a voting booth, it seems to behoove the government to make sure that all of its citizens can exorcise their right to vote and actually understand what the hell it is they are voting for.

What nobody mentions is that this Speak English or Git Out crap is a totally new thing. My great-grandparents were born and grew up in a German-speaking community here in the US. We're a nation of (mostly) immigrants, and the fact that English is a dominant language is only an accident of history what with the English colonizers being the main political force in our part of the continent. There is no cultural principle for the establishment of English as being The American Language, especially since there are plenty of indigenous American languages that we have no right to displace. And I don't consider majority-rules to be an appropriate basis for foisting an official language on the entire population. By that reasoning, if Latino becomes the dominant ethnicity in the future, then we should change the official language to Spanish. No, when we say the government has the right to impose itself in areas that aren't crucial to protecting human life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, then we've lost sight of what justifies government in the first place, what it means to be American.

Totally New?
Alien & Sedition Acts 1789
Anti Catholic(ie irish and german) Riots including the burining of the Ursiline convent near boston and 30 people were killed in Phillidelphia
Chinese Exclusion Act 1882
WWII zoot suit riots against hispanics in california
Nativism will continue and immigration will continue and america will continue to be.