NationStates Jolt Archive

*throws a 'my first thread steal party'*

We can celebrate Romney wasting millions of his dollars too. Our economy needed it.

*hangs banner and gets nude*

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/07/romney.campaign/index.html

Pity. That just leaves McCain and Huckabee.

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/romney_immigration.png

That's kind of dumb, though if he throws his delegates at Huckabee then McCain will actually have a fight on his hands.

That's kind of dumb, though if he throws his delegates at Huckabee then McCain will actually have a fight on his hands.

That's what I'm afraid of.

That's kind of dumb, though if he throws his delegates at Huckabee then McCain will actually have a fight on his hands.

It's certainly what I'd do. If I couldn't have the nomination, I'd make sure whoever was left would have to fight to the death for it.

Throw them both in the Rancor pit. McCain can have his old M16 from 'Nam, and Huckabee the Spear of Longinus. Last man standing.

But isn't Huckabee is just trying to be McCain's VP now?

I think he was trying to be, but if he has a shot at the big chair you can bet he'l jump all over it.

That's kind of dumb, though if he throws his delegates at Huckabee then McCain will actually have a fight on his hands.

But isn't Huckabee is just trying to be McCain's VP now?

That's what I'm afraid of.Why? That would harm the Republican candidacy, and that is a rather nice thing.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/07/romney.campaign/index.html

Pity. That just leaves McCain and Huckabee.

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/romney_immigration.png
Isn't that Hilliary's hand giving us the finger?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/07/romney.campaign/index.html

Pity. That just leaves McCain and Huckabee.

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/romney_immigration.png

Beat you by 5 minutes (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=548862&page=21) :p

Oh well... Throw down the gauntlet, pick up the mitten...

I would say it is a safe bet that McCain will win the general election since he is known so well as a moderate. He is the type of bipartisan person this country needs. He will work with democrats (as he has numerous times).

Obama would have a shot against McCain, but the dems won't have a nominee until the Convention. That does not help the nominee.

I liked Romney - he gave great speeches.

Now my only hope to avoid a McCain nomination is Mike Huckabee, a man with no funding and no broad support outside the south.

throwing in the towel... about time that rich bastard did. his reasoning was a huge cop-out, a less than humble way of bowing out.

it so nice that the bad guys lose every now and again :)

I liked Romney - he gave great speeches.

Now my only hope to avoid a McCain nomination is Mike Huckabee, a man with no funding and no broad support outside the south.
And who is completely unelectable.

And who is completely unelectable.
That's fine. My concern is that McCain is electable, and I really don't like McCain. The only way to keep him away from the presidency is to deny him the Republican nomination.

I'd much rather have Obama as President than McCain, but I think McCain would beat Obama in a general election (I refuse to consider the possibility that Hillary will win on the Democratic side), so to avoid a McCain presidency (which would be the worst possible outcome of this election cycle), I need someone to defeat him before the general election rolls around.

So we have McCain, Huckabee, Clinton, and Obama?





"Goodbye natiiiioon, goodbye natiiiioon, gooooodbye nation, we're going to leave you now. Farewell natiiiioon...."

It's certainly what I'd do. If I couldn't have the nomination, I'd make sure whoever was left would have to fight to the death for it.

Throw them both in the Rancor pit. McCain can have his old M16 from 'Nam, and Huckabee the Spear of Longinus. Last man standing.

I second the motion!

So we have McCain, Huckabee, Clinton, and Obama?[/SIZE]

Yeah. The Conservative Talk Show hosts must be so pissed right now. They wanted either Guilani or Romney, and handpicked them as front-runners at the very start. Now we have:

McCain - Evil Democrat in Disguise!
Huckabee - Crazy Christian!
Clinton - THE SHE-DEVIL!
Obama - EBIL BLACK MOSLEM!1!

So we have McCain, Huckabee, Clinton, and Obama?





"Goodbye natiiiioon, goodbye natiiiioon, gooooodbye nation, we're going to leave you now. Farewell natiiiioon....

Meh, Obama is ok, he's got some flaws but they're not nearly as bad as Bush. Even McCain is a hell of a lot better.

Now we just need the rest of the Republicans to drop out. :p

Who here agrees with me that Huckabee is going to be on McCain's VP ticket?

Who here agrees with me that Huckabee is going to be on McCain's VP ticket?

I hope it won't happen: I don't want that man within 100 yards of the White House.

I hope it won't happen: I don't want that man within 100 yards of the White House.

Agreed. Huckabee is terrible.

Here's the thing that has me shamed for many democrats. A lot of so called moderates and liberals have said "McCain isn't so bad, I could vote for him!" or "I wouldn't mind him in the presidency". Here's the thing for me. McCain does have some good qualities. He is for a balanced budget, he is against tax cuts for the sake of tax cuts, he voted against the gay marriage ban and has made some suggestions he'd be in favor of gay marriage, he's ardently anti torture, and has tried to reign in some nonsensical campaign spending. That makes him look "ok" to me at least.

However two things kill it. He is a gigantic warhawk, and is rabidly pro-life and will be in a position to appoint up to 3 supreme court justices. And when I look back at the bush administration, through all the fuck ups, quagmires and just plain stupid decisions, two things stick out in my mind as the two WORST things, our two worst legacies of bush the lesser.

1) the ongoing conflict in the middle east

2) the stacking of SCOTUS with anti-choice justices

And while McCain might be against many of the things that made bush a bad president, he is for those things that made bush a truly disasterous president. And for that I can not vote for him, or support anyone who does, no matter how "good" he may seem otherwise. Those two facts sink him for me.

Who here agrees with me that Huckabee is going to be on McCain's VP ticket?aye.

*throws a 'my first thread steal party'*

We can celebrate Romney wasting millions of his dollars too. Our economy needed it.

*hangs banner and gets nude*

*eagerly snaps photos, sells on eBay*

This made the race more interesting though I think McCain is already a lock for the Republican nomination.

On a semi-(un)related note: Didn't Ann Coulter say that she preferred Hillary over McCain?

On a semi-(un)related note: Didn't Ann Coulter say that she preferred Hillary over McCain?

Yes. But she is mad as a hatter, so...

Saturday, Sunday, Monday
CNN pundits: "its a 2 man race."
FOX pundits: "its a 2 man race."
ABC pundits: "its a 2 man race."
CBS pundits: "its a 2 man race."


"...yes, we heard what the pundits said. But this is our vote, not theirs. This is our election, not theirs. This is our presidency, not theirs."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrrjOmW4pDE
I love it. :D

Even in defeat hes an ignorant pompus asshat. God I hate him.

That being said, I was hoping he'd get the Rep nomination because thatd be a garunteed Dem win. I think even the religious right would vote against him because at least Obama is Christian.

Um....no I'm not going to say it.

Who would vote for an idiot like Romney? The man has no platform whatsoever and changes positions the way other people change socks. One day he's pro-this, the next day he's anti-this, etc. He has no convictions and readily changes "his" views to suit popular opinion. Who needs a sack of garbage like that in the White House? Bad as the other candidates are, at least they have actual positions of their own.

"In this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign be a part of aiding a surrender to terror. This is not an easy decision. I hate to lose," the former Massachusetts governor said.

"If this were only about me, I'd go on. But it's never been only about me. I entered this race because I love America, and because I love America, in this time of war I feel I have to now stand aside for our party and for our country."



Even in defeat hes an ignorant pompus asshat. God I hate him.

That being said, I was hoping he'd get the Rep nomination because thatd be a garunteed Dem win. I think even the religious right would vote against him because at least Obama is Christian.

Nah say it. If Im way off Ill admit defeat. Im not totally familier with republican thoughts.

Well...mormanism is just another form of Christianity. This really has nothing to do with partys.

Um....no I'm not going to say it.



Nah say it. If Im way off Ill admit defeat. Im not totally familier with republican thoughts.

Well...mormanism is just another form of Christianity.

Correct, but many Christians would disagree there.

many Christians would disagree there.they are wrong.

they are wrong.

They are, but they disagree nonetheless.

Well...mormanism is just another form of Christianity. This really has nothing to do with partys.

Oh, I know mormanism is another form of Christianity. But, he was getting a lot of flack for being mormon. Prominent evangelical leaders didnt endorse him because he's a "heretic".


That was why I said that. I also think he would have lost in the big election because hes Bush-lite and a dousch.

They are, but they disagree nonetheless.

And thus you have Christianity's MO.

And thus you have Christianity's MO.

MO?

Correct, but many Christians would disagree there.

They do disagree as the book of Morman is used quite alot in said disagreement.

They are, but they disagree nonetheless.They can disagree -all day all nite-, the can disagree all they all they want... They are still wrong.
The Mormons are Christians.

Their book of Mormon has some weird (racism) stuff, but that is not relevant to whether they are Christian or not.

MO?

Modus Operendii. (I think I just misspelled it)

MO?


Ive never understood what it stood for, but its usually used to mean their trademark or something theyre known for.

Modus Operendii. (I think I just misspelled it)

Ah, thanks. :)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/07/romney.campaign/index.html

Pity. That just leaves McCain and Huckabee.

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/romney_immigration.png

Huckabee hasn't a chance in hell. He should have dropped before Romney, at least Romney is rich enough to spend into infinity.

No one wants a whacko who wants to ammend God into our constitution.

Huckabee hasn't a chance in hell. He should have dropped before Romney, at least Romney is rich enough to spend into infinity.

No one wants a whacko who wants to ammend God into our constitution.

Sadly....many people do want that my friend. Theyre called the religious right AKA Evangelicals. Theyre his core following. It will be interesting if Rommney throws his support to Huckster, than its a totally different game.

However two things kill it. He is a gigantic warhawk, and is rabidly pro-life and will be in a position to appoint up to 3 supreme court justices...
You left out the third, and largest problem with him: He's old, and while he looks healthy (and keeps trotting out his 90+ year old mother), that increases the risk he might die; and whether his VP is Huckabee or somebody else, it is bound to be some idiot/asshole/both chosen as a sop to the crazy-right wing.

Psst: it's Modus Operandi

No one wants a whacko who wants to ammend God into our constitution.

Fred Phelps probably does.

*runs*

Huckabee hasn't a chance in hell. He should have dropped before Romney, at least Romney is rich enough to spend into infinity.From his Victory speech:

"And I also want you to know that as long as there's still votes and delegates to be won until that magic number of 1,191, there's going be one guy answering the bell every time there's a new round."

since Huck is a rare politician who does not Flip-Flop.. he is not going to drop, unless MacRambo offer him the VP on a silver platter. (that would very much please Huck's supporters)

since Huck is a rare politician who does not Flip-Flop.. he is not going to drop, unless MacRambo offer him the VP on a silver platter. (that would very much please Huck's supporters)

I'm going to tell Rambo that you compared McCain to him. He's not going to be happy. :D

I'm going to tell Rambo that you compared McCain to him. He's not going to be happy. :DRambo is too old for me to worry. :D

Rambo is too old for me to worry. :D

Damn. :p

Sadly....many people do want that my friend. Theyre called the religious right AKA Evangelicals. Theyre his core following. It will be interesting if Rommney throws his support to Huckster, than its a totally different game.

OR!!!! *shudders* he could give it to the PAUL HIVE MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OR!!!! *shudders* he could give it to the PAUL HIVE MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That would just be funny rather than politically sound.

I'm a Democrat (INTRUDER!!!!), but I have developed a liking for McCain.

Tell me: Why do you hate John McCain (for those here that do)?


I don't like Romney and am happy that he dropped out. He is the former governor of my state (Massachusetts), and when he left office, he left us in a $1 billion deficit.

Reminds me of when Bush drove all of his companies into the ground before he was governor. Shows you how Bush (and Romney, for that matter) weren't/aren't qualified economically.

I'm a Democrat (INTRUDER!!!!), but I have developed a liking for McCain.

Tell me: Why do you hate John McCain (for those here that do)?

To old for starters. Has a warped sense of foreign policy for another.

Well...mormanism is just another form of Christianity. This really has nothing to do with partys.

They can disagree -all day all nite-, the can disagree all they all they want... They are still wrong.
The Mormons are Christians.

Their book of Mormon has some weird (racism) stuff, but that is not relevant to whether they are Christian or not.

I don't actually care one way or the other and don't really want to get into a side-debate, but whether Mormons are Christians depends entirely on how you define what a Christian is.

There are many Christians who believe certain essential doctrines are inherent to Christianity and Mormons don't believe in those essential doctrines. For example, this source (http://www.carm.org/lds/lds_christian.htm) (which I don't vouch for in any way, they are probably cranks) lays out some points fairly well. See also here (http://www.carm.org/lds/compare.htm), here (http://www.irr.org/mit/Is-Mormonism-Christian.html), here (http://www.leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/docs/mormonism/mormonism.html) and here (http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/are_mormons_christian.htm).

I'm a Democrat (INTRUDER!!!!),

You're new here, aren't you...

I'm a Democrat (INTRUDER!!!!), but I have developed a liking for McCain.

Tell me: Why do you hate John McCain (for those here that do)?

I don't hate John McCain, but I hate much that he stands for.

Are you for staying in Iraq for 100 more years?

Are you for banning abortion?

School prayer? 10 Commandments in every classroom?

Teaching creationism?

New roads in wilderness and National Forests?

Restrictions on video games?

I could go on and on and on .... John McCain on the issues (http://www.ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm).

Meh, Obama is ok, he's got some flaws but they're not nearly as bad as Bush. Even McCain is a hell of a lot better.

True. But I still do not see any of them cutting spending.

I signed up for these forums back in 2004 (my nation died, though). But, reading a couple of posts in this thread, it looks like this thread is full of Conservatives.

Cool. You don't need to worry about being an intruder here, even if a thread seems to be full of conservatives, since most of the ones who are still here a generally reasonable people.

You're new here, aren't you...

I signed up for these forums back in 2004 (my nation died, though). But, reading a couple of posts in this thread, it looks like this thread is full of Conservatives.

School prayer?

Voluntary or compulsory? Endorsed by the teacher or no?

i.e., a teacher-led school prayer would be a hell no (except, obviously, in a private religious school), but if, say, a Muslim student wants to do one of his five daily prayers, and he isn't bothering anyone else, why not?

under review.

Yeah. The Conservative Talk Show hosts must be so pissed right now. They wanted either Guilani or Romney, and handpicked them as front-runners at the very start. Now we have:

McCain - Evil Democrat in Disguise!
Huckabee - Crazy Christian!
Clinton - THE SHE-DEVIL!
Obama - EBIL BLACK MOSLEM!1!

New list:

McCain: Foppish spendthrift.
Huckabee: Religious spendthrift.
Clinton: Bellicose spendthrift.
Obama: Compassionate spendthrift.

I suppose I will have to pull for "evil black guy" out of the four of them, though I will be voting third party.

True. But I still do not see any of them cutting spending.


Barack Obama's Plan

Restore Fiscal Discipline to Washington

* Reinstate PAYGO Rules: Obama believes that a critical step in restoring fiscal discipline is enforcing pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budgeting rules which require new spending commitments or tax changes to be paid for by cuts to other programs or new revenue.
* Reverse Bush Tax Cuts for the Wealthy: Obama will protect tax cuts for poor and middle class families, but he will reverse most of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest taxpayers.
* Cut Pork Barrel Spending: Obama introduced and passed bipartisan legislation that would require more disclosure and transparency for special-interest earmarks. Obama believes that spending that cannot withstand public scrutiny cannot be justified. Obama will slash earmarks to no greater than year 2001 levels and ensure all spending decisions are open to the public.
* Make Government Spending More Accountable and Efficient: Obama will ensure that federal contracts over $25,000 are competitively bid. Obama will also increase the efficiency of government programs through better use of technology, stronger management that demands accountability and by leveraging the government's high-volume purchasing power to get lower prices.
* End Wasteful Government Spending: Obama will stop funding wasteful, obsolete federal government programs that make no financial sense. Obama has called for an end to subsidies for oil and gas companies that are enjoying record profits, as well as the elimination of subsidies to the private student loan industry which has repeatedly used unethical business practices. Obama will also tackle wasteful spending in the Medicare program.

Make the Tax System More Fair and Efficient

* End Tax Haven Abuse: Building on his bipartisan work in the Senate, Obama will give the Treasury Department the tools it needs to stop the abuse of tax shelters and offshore tax havens and help close the $350 billion tax gap between taxes owed and taxes paid.
* Close Special Interest Corporate Loopholes: Obama will level the playing field for all businesses by eliminating special-interest loopholes and deductions, such as those for the oil and gas industry.

Barack Obama's Record

* PAYGO: Obama voted in 2005, 2006, and 2007 to reinstate pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) federal budget rules.
* No-Bid Contracts: Obama has introduced and helped pass bipartisan legislation to limit the abuse of no-bid federal contracts.
* Against Raising the Federal Debt Limit: In 2006, Obama voted against misguided Republican efforts to raise the statutory debt limit at the same time the Republicans were pushing through massive debt-financed tax cuts for the wealthy.

http://www.carm.org/lds/compare.htm WoW..

at first I tough the main difference was that Mormons used to be Polygamous (which I dont mind)..

but now I can see there is fundamental differences of Doctrine.
If anything this Election 2008 has taught me a lot about Mormons.
like last month, I learned how fundamentally racist the Book of Mormon is.

I don't hate John McCain, but I hate much that he stands for.

Are you for staying in Iraq for 100 more years?

Right off the bat, something thats out of context. He went on to say "as long as people there are not being wounded or injured or killed

Are you for banning abortion?

One correct point on the entire list.



You seem to be thinking of Mike Huckabee. John McCain went so far as to announce, in one ofthe early Republican Debates, that he belived in evolution. He said the 10 commandments woudl be Ok in classrooms, but not required.

New roads in wilderness and National Forests?

Repeal ban on new roads in wilderness due to bad process. (Dec 1999)


Restrictions on video games?

As in labeling them?

I could go on and on and on .... John McCain on the issues (http://www.ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm).

Voluntary or compulsory? Endorsed by the teacher or no?

i.e., a teacher-led school prayer would be a hell no (except, obviously, in a private religious school), but if, say, a Muslim student wants to do one of his five daily prayers, and he isn't bothering anyone else, why not?

IIRC, teacher-led, but allegedly voluntary, school prayer.

Well, McCain's chances just went up. Frankly, I gave Romney a better chance than Huckabee. I'm rather surprised.

Right off the bat, something thats out of context. He went on to say "as long as people there are not being wounded or injured or killed

Are you denying he wants us to remain in Iraq, despite the fact that people there ARE people being wounded and killed?

One correct point on the entire list.[/QUOTE}

Bullshit. I was just shootin' from the hip, but my characterization of McCain's position is still more accurate than yours.

[QUOTE]School prayer? 10 Commandments in every classroom?

Teaching creationism?

You seem to be thinking of Mike Huckabee. John McCain went so far as to announce, in one ofthe early Republican Debates, that he belived in evolution. He said the 10 commandments woudl be Ok in classrooms, but not required.

Um. For some it may be going a long way to say one believes in evolution, but for the rest of us it is a no-brainer.

You didn't address his record on school prayer.

He would allow local school districts to teach creationism -- sorry, but that violates the First Amendment.

His pandering on the 10 Commandments is pathetic.

Repeal ban on new roads in wilderness due to bad process. (Dec 1999)

Yeah, that was his excuse. But also: Voted NO on reducing funds for road-building in National Forests. (Sep 1997)

As in labeling them?

That would be part of what he believes, yep. If that's it, I'd be relieved.

As I said, there is much more wrong with McCain. I just touched the iceberg.

This is no big deal, Romney was just a rich twat who only represented a highly reactionary religious minority anyways.

Tell me: Why do you hate John McCain (for those here that do)?

Because he's a big government warmonger who has limited the right to free speech and will whore himself out at any opportunity to anyone who will throw their patronage to him. In other words, he's just another politician.

Bad as the other candidates are, at least they have actual positions of their own.

Evidently you've never bothered to look at more than one Hillary Clinton speech at a time.

Meh. I'd prefer if it was Huckabee. I probably could tolerate Mitten for president, but not Huckleberry Finn.

IIRC, teacher-led, but allegedly voluntary, school prayer.

I'm not okay with that.

i understood that that is what mccain meant.

and no i dont want to stay in iraq for 100 years even if in all that time no american gets so much as a headcold while there.

Agreed. Aside from how this effects the Iraqis, how it effects our international standing, and how it gives al Qaeda additional political ammunition, there's the whole issue of cost. Who's going to pay for it?

Right off the bat, something thats out of context. He went on to say "as long as people there are not being wounded or injured or killed


i understood that that is what mccain meant.

and no i dont want to stay in iraq for 100 years even if in all that time no american gets so much as a headcold while there.

just another politician.John Edwards is a politician.
.
a big government warmongerJohn Edwards is not a warmonger, but Yes MacRambo is itching going to go to war. If anyone can keep US in the quagmires for a 100 years, that gotta be John McCain.

John Edwards is a politician.

Yes, he is. That's why I don't like him either.

John Edwards is not a warmonger, but Yes MacRambo is itching going to go to war. If anyone can keep US in the quagmires for a 100 years, that gotta be John McCain.

Mr. Edwards has jumped on the Iranian-hysteria bandwagon (in fact, very few haven't done their part in overhyping the distant "threat" posed by Iran), and is quite squarely in the pocket of the Israel lobby.

It's certainly what I'd do. If I couldn't have the nomination, I'd make sure whoever was left would have to fight to the death for it.

Throw them both in the Rancor pit. McCain can have his old M16 from 'Nam, and Huckabee the Spear of Longinus. Last man standing.

I think id have to give that one to McCain.

Yes, he is. That's why I don't like him either.



Mr. Edwards has jumped on the Iranian-hysteria bandwagon (in fact, very few haven't done their part in overhyping the distant "threat" posed by Iran), and is quite squarely in the pocket of the Israel lobby....

you have a point.I change my statement to "he was the least warmonger of the top 6 candidates."

MacCain is the worst Warmonger.

Agreed. Huckabee is terrible.

Can I third that?

...

you have a point.I change my statement to "he was the least warmonger of the top 6 candidates."

MacCain is the worst Warmonger.

Maybe. But least warmonger-y is hardly something to be proud of.

well since it was for oil, how about the american oil corporations, i mean they cant refuse to aid their fellow countrymen can they :p

lol

Agreed. Aside from how this effects the Iraqis, how it effects our international standing, and how it gives al Qaeda additional political ammunition, there's the whole issue of cost. Who's going to pay for it?

well since it was for oil, how about the american oil corporations, i mean they cant refuse to aid their fellow countrymen can they :p

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/07/romney.campaign/index.html

Pity. That just leaves McCain and Huckabee.

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/romney_immigration.png

Eww! It's soggy and smells mushroom-bleachy!
*retch*

...He is a gigantic warhawk, and is rabidly pro-life and will be in a position to appoint up to 3 supreme court justices. And when I look back at the bush administration, through all the fuck ups, quagmires and just plain stupid decisions, two things stick out in my mind as the two WORST things, our two worst legacies of bush the lesser.

1) the ongoing conflict in the middle east

2) the stacking of SCOTUS with anti-choice justices

And while McCain might be against many of the things that made bush a bad president, he is for those things that made bush a truly disasterous president. And for that I can not vote for him, or support anyone who does, no matter how "good" he may seem otherwise. Those two facts sink him for me.

Eh...McCain lost any chance of winning my vote when he started sucking up to the Religious Right.

He saw no need in 2000, then got punked by Bush...now he's more than happy to cater to those reactionaries and their pet causes. That's not the kind of "leader" we need in the White House right now.

As for Romney, did anyone catch Jon Stewart ripping apart his speech on the Daily Show last night? Fucking classic!

In my opinion there needs to be change in the white house and at the moment neither McCain or Huckabee are that change. They are essentially the old guard attempting to market themselves as "the change". I can assure you that if another republican is voted in, things will continue to spiral down as they have been over the last 7 years during this Bush administration.

Sure Hillary has connections with the old guard aswell but shes proposing change in the United States including the withdrawal of an already failing war in Iraq (we all know this true) and will not give the rich a break anylonger.

Obama is more of a fresh face and is the choice for total change in America. If americans really want change in america, Obama is the choice to go for and even though he may have some flaws and is inexperienced when compared to the other candidates, his proposals, stance on Iraq war and his individuality through his campaign compared to the other candidates brings a fresh breath of air to Washington, something the United States is in great need at this time..

You want to vote in another Bush for the next eight years? consider 2012 confirmed my friends.