NationStates Jolt Archive

I for one am rather sceptical...any man of non white origin that has had any semblance of power in the US has tended to end up on the mortuary slab...

Can this guy really get the votes of the conservative middle america?

Id like an American view point on this because to be honest ive been following it with amazement...

And here was me thinking the majority of voting US Citizens were gun toting right wing republican racists...do I stand corrected?

Can Barak Obama really become President of the United States?

Can this guy really get the votes of the conservative middle america?


He's not a conservative. There's your answer. Black has nothing to do with it for the average person, even if there are a few bigots here and there.

sorry you misunderstood me...what I was asking is...can this guy capture a majority vote around the country...including middle class white americans

If I misunderstood, it's because you confused the terminology. "Conservative Middle America" to me means conservatives living in the interior of the country ("class" doesn't figure in). Seems simple enough, but maybe not. Conservatives aren't going to vote for a liberal of any color ideally, but I don't think Obama's being black makes him any more repugnant to conservatives than he would've been otherwise - not to me, at least, or to anyone I've read or spoken with in my time.

I think he has a good chance, and I don't think that being black is a disadvantage for him, it might actually help him since those unlikely to vote for a balck president would be republican/independent.

sorry you misunderstood me...what I was asking is...can this guy capture a majority vote around the country...including middle class white americans
Yes. A lot of middle class white Americans aren't racists, and many actually see what a Black president would symbolise as a good thing.

Of all the Dems, he's most likely to pull significant numbers from the independents and even some Republicans - which Hillary probably couldn't do.

He's not a conservative. There's your answer. Black has nothing to do with it for the average person, even if there are a few bigots here and there.

sorry you misunderstood me...what I was asking is...can this guy capture a majority vote around the country...including middle class white americans

if he gets the nomination--and he is running against a woman so there are sexist downsides too--he will be the next president of the united states.

He isn't black, he's Canadian.

I think he has a good chance, and I don't think that being black is a disadvantage for him,


you must admit though America hardly has the best record for racial acceptance...even in recent history...I dont want to be offensive to anyone on that side of the pond but I think it's a case of old habits die hard in the echelons of power over there...

I've been arguing for months that the answer is no.

I genuinely like Obama (relative to the other candidates), but I honestly don't think he can win.

Yes Americans are stupid and blind and racist (blind and racist?...hmm) and the only presidents we've had were 60 year old white bald guys (look whos running for the Republican Party). But the Dem Party has come with a woman and a black, making a minority a majority in the party, and hopefully America agrees. GO OBAMA!!!

Can Barak Obama really become President of the United States?

In theory, yes. In practice, that remains to be seen.

He'll be fine. The people who wont vote for im because hes black dont vote Democrat anyway.

you must admit though America hardly has the best record for racial acceptance...even in recent history...I dont want to be offensive to anyone on that side of the pond but I think it's a case of old habits die hard in the echelons of power over there...

Those habits have has 50 years to die. I think what he has done so far should show that race isn't held against him as much as you seem to thing. After all the people who would vote democrats would seem to be less likely to hold that against him.

Those habits have has 50 years to die. I think what he has done so far should show that race isn't held against him as much as you seem to thing. After all the people who would vote democrats would seem to be less likely to hold that against him.

Im not knocking it...to be honest I think it is an absolutely amazing step in the right direction and American politics is actually taking my interest for the first time since....well....ever

I really do hope he does very well...hence the thread...nationstates is as good a cross section of American society as any...thought id see how the land lies when it comes to support for the guy.

lulz wut?

Heh. I didn't even catch that, but it's worth a chuckle or two. :p

you must admit though America hardly has the best record for racial acceptance...even in recent history...I dont want to be offensive to anyone on that side of the pond but I think it's a case of old habits die hard in the echelons of power over there...

American race relations have improved exponentially over the past years. Does racism (and racists) exist? Of course they do. You find those everywhere. But racism is not nearly as large of an issue as it was back in the day.

As to your question if Barack Obama can win the presidency, the answer is yes. Obama has managed to reach across the "aisle", and is drawing significant support from moderates and even some self described conservatives (like me). His support is not based solely on Blacks and liberals, as some would have you believe.

I really do hope he does very well...hence the thread...nationstates is as good a cross section of American society as any...thought id see how the land lies when it comes to support for the guy.

lulz wut?

Hey, most Americans feel sorry for black people, so quit being one of those Europeans with a screwed up view of America.

Obama will win because most of America is sick of the Republicans and the Clintons.

Obama hardly even looks or acts black anyway.

lulz wut?

Bible bashers...nazis...far right...far left...weirdos...straight up squares...nerds...jocks....shall I go on? ;)

Bible bashers...nazis...far right...far left...weirdos...straight up squares...nerds...jocks....shall I go on? ;)

Put that way I can see where you're coming from.

Bible bashers...nazis...far right...far left...weirdos...straight up squares...nerds...jocks....shall I go on? ;)

You're missing the huge number of conservative middle aged Americans who don't use the intarwebs.

Obama hardly even looks or acts black anyway.
Which, if I recally correctly, was an early knock on the democratic candidates. There was "a black man who is insufficiently black, and woman who is unconvincingly feminine".

Hey, most Americans feel sorry for black people

Do you even grasp the implicated stupidity of this comment?

Do you even grasp the implicated stupidity of this comment?Yes, I understand that I am stereotyping black people and the American perception of them, just as you are. White middle class Americans typically think of Black people as poor inner city people who have had terrible luck, so they feel sorry for them.
And this one?

Obviously im not going to take it as read that the American public think like this Vietnam moron...but you can understand my concerns hahaha!I think most Americans don't respect people who talk like they're black, because it makes them think of rap music. Obama is only half black and he was raised in Hawaii, which makes him more likable to the majority than someone raised in the poor part of New York. Please explain how that is moronic.

He's not a conservative. There's your answer. Black has nothing to do with it for the average person, even if there are a few bigots here and there.

If being black has nothing to do with it why is a big deal being made about it.

Obama hardly even looks or acts black anyway.

And this one?

Obviously im not going to take it as read that the American public think like this Vietnam moron...but you can understand my concerns hahaha!

Here are some interesting observations I read about Obama on a blog. Obama doesn't fit into any catagory very well, which might be why he has been successful.

He’s neither white nor black.

He’s neither old nor young.

He’s not a southerner or northerner because he grew up in Hawaii.

He’s not too left or too right.

He’s not too Christian, and even has a Muslim name.

He’s not an old school politician or a newcomer.

He’s not handsome in a standard way, yet he’s attractive.

Is that supposed to be a good thing?



I'm sure Obama is glad he's got your vote



Yes he does, he looks 100% like a 'black' person, and as far as acts, his mannerisms and style of speech a not that different from Друг моего брата Audris, who is black.Are you serious? He looks almost white to me.

No, it's not really a good thing that people feel sorry for blacks, but it is better than hating blacks.

nationstates is as good a cross section of American society as any...
I think the left is over-represented here (based on no "scientific study", just gut reaction).

However, in response to the OP, I do think Obama has to be considered the odds-on favorite now, both for the Dem nomination and for the general election. This amazes and heartens me.

Hey, most Americans feel sorry for black people, so quit being one of those Europeans with a screwed up view of America.

Is that supposed to be a good thing?

Obama will win because most of America is sick of the Republicans and the Clintons.

I'm sure Obama is glad he's got your vote

Obama hardly even looks or acts black anyway.

Yes he does, he looks 100% like a 'black' person, and as far as acts, his mannerisms and style of speech a not that different from Друг моего брата Audris, who is black.

Here are some interesting observations I read about Obama on a blog. Obama doesn't fit into any catagory very well, which might be why he has been successful.
But he is young.

One of the complaints about Bill Clinton when he was first running for President was that he was too young, and Obama's a year younger than Bill was.

Seriously, here is a picture of black guy, Obama, and a white guy.
http://blogs.citypages.com/pscholtes/images/Baraka%20African%20hip%20hop%20rapper%20Minneapolis.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/ObamaBarack.jpg
http://www.noheat.com/images/mitt_romney.jpg

Obama hardly even has a black facial structure, and his skin is halfway between black and white. I don't know why he's considered black at all. The word is biracial.

If being black has nothing to do with it why is a big deal being made about it.

By whom? I don't think it's a big deal to many people. The major media outlets fall back on color when they're lacking news of any real substance, but even they aren't pushing it too hard.

I think this is your own opinion talking here...I find it incredible to believe that white America feel sorry for black America...that such a sweeping statement its off the scale...

As sure as eggs is eggs black people wont take kindly to your pity vietnam...how about equality?I'm aware that I made a sweeping statement. So did you, you're not in a position to reprimand me for it.

Pity is the first step toward equality. If nobody felt that the suffering of oppressed people was wrong, nobody would try to change the situation and the situation would remain the same forever.

The guy is black...just because he talks a certain way or is a different shade to your version of what a black man should be doesnt make him any less so...So half black=black? Yeah, that makes sense.

Erm...I beg to differ again...Id rather be hated than pitiedSo, in other words, you would rather be lynched than given affirmative action? That doesn't make sense.

Yes, I understand that I am stereotyping black people and the American perception of them, just as you are. White middle class Americans typically think of Black people as poor inner city people who have had terrible luck, so they feel sorry for them.

I think this is your own opinion talking here...I find it incredible to believe that white America feel sorry for black America...that such a sweeping statement its off the scale...

As sure as eggs is eggs black people wont take kindly to your pity vietnam...how about equality?

STUPID COMMENT 1

I think most Americans don't respect people who talk like they're black, because it makes them think of rap music. Obama is only half black and he was raised in Hawaii, which makes him more likable to the majority than someone raised in the poor part of New York. Please explain how that is moronic.

The guy is black...just because he talks a certain way or is a different shade to your version of what a black man should be doesnt make him any less so...

STUPID COMMENT 2

So you can pick out pictures that support your bigoted pov, that doesn't make you any less of a bigot.How is it bigoted that I don't consider people who are half black to be black?

If anything it is bigoted to consider anyone with a drop of black blood in them black. People can be 2 races at once.

you must admit though America hardly has the best record for racial acceptance...even in recent history...I dont want to be offensive to anyone on that side of the pond but I think it's a case of old habits die hard in the echelons of power over there...

More like there have been no minority leaders worth giving any attention to. Name me four minority leaders (one for each minority...asian, hispanic, black, native american) that are alive today that are any match to MLK jr., Malcom X, Sitting Bull or Cesar Chavez.

Answer: There isn't. Race is accepted quite easily here in the US (and I live in the dakotas...so that is saying something), and only a few jerks on both sides try to make an issue of it (Rappers, I'm looking at you too).

Reality is, I would have voted for Collin Powell but he didn't really run. I won't vote for Obama because I don't believe in his stance on certain issues. Race has no factor in it.

No, it's not really a good thing that people feel sorry for blacks, but it is better than hating blacks.

Erm...I beg to differ again...Id rather be hated than pitied

Obama hardly even has a black facial structure, and his skin is halfway between black and white. I don't know why he's considered black at all. The word is biracial.

If he considers himself black, he's black. Pretty simple. For social purposes, he's black because people (most people) perceive him as being black. For legal purposes, he's black because his mother had it written on his birth certificate, if that is the case. And again, hopefully it won't make any difference.

Not that biracial identites aren't significant, but it's up to the individual to decide how they want to be seen ethnically, and if Obama says he's black, that's his choice.

Seriously, here is a picture of black guy, Obama, and a white guy.
http://blogs.citypages.com/pscholtes/images/Baraka%20African%20hip%20hop%20rapper%20Minneapolis.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/ObamaBarack.jpg
http://www.noheat.com/images/mitt_romney.jpg

Obama hardly even has a black facial structure, and his skin is halfway between black and white. I don't know why he's considered black at all. The word is biracial.

So you can pick out pictures that support your bigoted pov, that doesn't make you any less of a bigot.

More like there have been no minority leaders worth giving any attention to. Name me four minority leaders (one for each minority...asian, hispanic, black, native american) that are alive today that are any match to MLK jr., Malcom X, Sitting Bull or Cesar Chavez.

Answer: There isn't.

And why is that Karsh?

Is it a question of one step forward two steps back?

How so? All the minority leaders I have mentioned came to lead in times when their people needed them.

It has nothing to do with oppression because today's America is *much* better than 1960's America for blacks. Today's America is *much* better than the 1980's America for Hispanics. I know that Today's America is much better for native americans that the 1800's America.

So, I pose the question. Where are the leaders?

You tell me Karsh...do you have a hidden agenda in this thread?

What are you getting at?

That the minorities have no leaders because? They have no characters? No intelligence? No personalities?

Im dubious of your intentions in this line of thought...

How so? All the minority leaders I have mentioned came to lead in times when their people needed them.

It has nothing to do with oppression because today's America is *much* better than 1960's America for blacks. Today's America is *much* better than the 1980's America for Hispanics. I know that Today's America is much better for native americans that the 1800's America.

So, I pose the question. Where are the leaders?

Fail, understanding is the first step towards equality.

*Applause*

Pass

For legal purposes, he's black because his mother had it written on his birth certificate, if that is the case.
No, no, no. There is no slot in the birth certificate for "race". That is one of the things that disappeared in the dim past.

If he considers himself black, he's black. Pretty simple. For social purposes, he's black because people (most people) perceive him as being black. For legal purposes, he's black because his mother had it written on his birth certificate, if that is the case. And again, hopefully it won't make any difference.

Not that biracial identites aren't significant, but it's up to the individual to decide how they want to be seen ethnically, and if Obama says he's black, that's his choice.That makes sense. But I still don't understand why I am considered a bigot because he looks half black to me, and in fact actually is half black.

How does someone "act" black? I'll agree he doesn't look "black", but what does it matter what he looks like anyway? It's what between the ears that counts.It matters because it is the topic of discussion in this thread.

What's bigoted is that you pity blacks, and are so ignorant that you believe that all 'black' people talk like gangsta rappers.I don't believe that all black people act in a stereotypically black manner. But I don't think it's fair that you start a thread asking what the American perception of black people is, and then when I try to explain the American perception of black people, you take it as my own personal opinion and get pissed off.

How is it bigoted that I don't consider people who are half black to be black?

If anything it is bigoted to consider anyone with a drop of black blood in them black. People can be 2 races at once.

What's bigoted is that you pity blacks, and are so ignorant that you believe that all 'black' people talk like gangsta rappers.

Obama hardly even looks or acts black anyway.

How does someone "act" black? I'll agree he doesn't look "black", but what does it matter what he looks like anyway? It's what between the ears that counts.

Pity is the first step toward equality..

Fail, understanding is the first step towards equality.

I for one am rather sceptical...any man of non white origin that has had any semblance of power in the US has tended to end up on the mortuary slab...

Can this guy really get the votes of the conservative middle america?

Id like an American view point on this because to be honest ive been following it with amazement...

And here was me thinking the majority of voting US Citizens were gun toting right wing republican racists...do I stand corrected?

Can Barak Obama really become President of the United States?

Well, I generally vote Republican and I'm perfectly prepared to vote for Obama if McCain fails to pull through. In a long line of terribles, he's the next best choice. Though much of Middle America isn't actually very conservative. Depending on where you go, the suburban Middle Class can be quite liberal. Aside from racial profiling in the inner cities, race isn't that much of factor anymore. At least not in the areas I've lived/ visited.

I don't think it's fair that you start a thread asking what the American perception of black people is

erm...have you even read the title of this thread...if I wanted to know what the American perception of black people is...id have entitled the thread

'What is the American perception of black people?'

This is about a black candidate running for election and my question of whether he can persuade enough people to vote for him when historically black men in power have been firmly trodden on...so where you have got that from ive no idea

How does someone "act" black?

Apparently by acting like a gangsta rapper. :headbang:

Mitt Romney :(

makes me wonder where Vanilla Ice fits in ;)

Next time you see a group of black people, listen to them. A lot of the time they talk differently around each other than they do around white people. They invent their own mannerisms. If you think this is bigoted, I don't care, because it is what I have observed. I'm aware that not all black people act like this, and I don't think it is a pre-determined behavior. It's a cultural difference. I brought it up because Obama acts nothing like that, and if he did I doubt most Americans would take him seriously.

erm...have you even read the title of this thread...if I wanted to know what the American perception of black people is...id have entitled the thread

'What is the American perception of black people?'

This is about a black candidate running for election and my question of whether he can persuade enough people to vote for him when historically black men in power have been firmly trodden on...so where you have got that from ive no ideaWell, the only reason Americans might discriminate against a black candidate is because of the American perception of blacks, so that is what I have talked about.

Apparently by acting like a gangsta rapper. :headbang:

So... skin colour pre-determines how you act? :p

So... I'm white and mixed, so I ought to act like....???

So... skin colour pre-determines how you act? :p

So... I'm white and mixed, so I ought to act like....???

Mitt Romney :(

Next time you see a group of black people, listen to them. A lot of the time they talk differently around each other than they do around white people. They invent their own mannerisms. If you think this is bigoted, I don't care, because it is what I have observed. I'm aware that not all black people act like this, and I don't think it is a pre-determined behavior. It's a cultural difference. I brought it up because Obama acts nothing like that, and if he did I doubt most Americans would take him seriously.


hmmmm...you're cleverer than I first thought Vietnam...you're a race hater...nice disguise...had you down as the confused rambling idiot...but now I know you're a seed sower...you probably have never heard of me...but im Beeker...I was one of the most known NSGers of all time...and how was I known you ask? I was known predominantly for weeding out people like you and ridiculing them ;)

I KNOW YOUR GAME

That makes sense. But I still don't understand why I am considered a bigot because he looks half black to me, and in fact actually is half black.

It matters because it is the topic of discussion in this thread.

I don't believe that all black people act in a stereotypically black manner. But I don't think it's fair that you start a thread asking what the American perception of black people is, and then when I try to explain the American perception of black people, you take it as my own personal opinion and get pissed off.

No, you aren't a bigot, FYI, what you said was radically misinterpreted. That's all.

i Know Your Gane
I Iz Spelin Kinge!!

If being black has nothing to do with it why is a big deal being made about it.

A lot of that came out of the Clinton campaign's nasty SC "Obama is 'the Black Candidate'" strategy.

Next time you see a group of black people, listen to them. A lot of the time they talk differently around each other than they do around white people. They invent their own mannerisms. If you think this is bigoted, I don't care, because it is what I have observed. I'm aware that not all black people act like this, and I don't think it is a pre-determined behavior. It's a cultural difference. I brought it up because Obama acts nothing like that, and if he did I doubt most Americans would take him seriously.

:( My apologies for jumping down your throat then, you came across poorly (or I read it poorly)

*smacks hand and sends self to corner for a timeout for being rude to VietnamSounds

hmmmm...you're cleverer than I first thought Vietnam...you're a race hater...nice disguise...had you down as the confused rambling idiot...but now I know you're a seed sower...you probably have never heard of me...but im Beeker...I was one of the most known NSGers of all time...and how was I known you ask? I was known predominantly for weeding out people like you and ridiculing them ;)

I KNOW YOUR GANEI don't hate black people, or any other race of people. But I'm not going to pretend that everyone acts the same way. Acknowledging a cultural difference is not the same as hating that difference. Maybe because you are from Europe, you think there is no cultural divide between black and white America. Well, you're deluding yourself. If you went to an American suburban high school, like I did, you would see that most of the black kids choose to sit at the same table together, and when they sit together they don't talk the same way that they do around everyone else. They do it on purpose because it is considered part of their identity.:( My apologies for jumping down your throat then, you came across poorly (or I read it poorly)

*smacks hand and sends self to corner for a timeout for being rude to VietnamSoundsApology accepted. 2 out of 3 people in this thread now do not consider me a bigot, cool.

*Applause*

Pass

*bows*

I Iz Spelin Kinge!!

Its late...give me a fucking break ;)

makes me wonder where Vanilla Ice fits in ;)

Nowhere, Vanilla Ice fits in absolutely nowhere.

Apology accepted. 2 out of 3 people in this thread now do not consider me a bigot, cool.

2 out of 3 Americans dont understand sarcasm

Americans are racist rednecks with shotguns who hunt Mexicans on the border and drink only Bud Light. They will never elect a black man President. [/sarcasm]

I can understand the majority of that but Bud Light? thats just plain wrong ;)

Beeker. I just realized how stupid your theory about me is. You think I'm a covert racist, trying to SECRETLY spread my message of hate, on the internet? On nationstates of all places? That's like the stupidest front ever.

Can Barak Obama really become President of the United States?

Americans are racist rednecks with shotguns who hunt Mexicans on the border and drink only Bud Light. They will never elect a black man President. [/sarcasm]

Beeker. I just realized how stupid your theory about me is. You think I'm a covert racist, trying to SECRETLY spread my message of hate, on the internet? On nationstates of all places? That's like the stupidest front ever.

so you prefer my theory that you are a complete idiot?

Thats ok too...I can go with that ;)

I prefer the theory that I grew up in America and you obviously have never spent a significant amount of time here so my observations of American culture are probably less ignorant than yours.

I prefer the theory that I grew up in America and you obviously have never spent a significant amount of time here so my observations of American culture are probably less ignorant than yours.

I see your informative years were put to good use and you've grown into an upstanding tolerant and well informed individual...congratulations

sarcasm

Obama would be nowhere without his skin color. He was created by the media, his entire image. Yes, America would elect a black President, but I hope not someone like Obama.

Condi for instance, or Colin Powell. Not a black politician who supports things like racial sensitivity training and represents the worst part of America, racial identity politics.

I for one am rather sceptical...any man of non white origin that has had any semblance of power in the US has tended to end up on the mortuary slab...

He is as white as he is black.

Can this guy really get the votes of the conservative middle america?

Probably not, as he is a liberal.

Id like an American view point on this because to be honest ive been following it with amazement...

In my point-of-view he has a excellent chance of becoming president, though I am not voting for him.

And here was me thinking the majority of voting US Citizens were gun toting right wing republican racists...do I stand corrected?

The loudest of voting U.S. Citizens are "gun toting right wing republican racists".

Can Barak Obama really become President of the United States?

Yes. Will he? We shall have to wait and see.

No, no, no. There is no slot in the birth certificate for "race". That is one of the things that disappeared in the dim past.

Hmmm... How long ago that "dim past" actually is makes a very interesting question. I was born around the same time frame as Obama (1968) and I'm sure mine has "race" on it (I'd pull it out and check if I had a convenient copy). Of course, I was born in the south... (I know for absolute certain my father's has "race" on it - he was adopted and he went and got the records unsealed. His fatherwas "indian", his mother was "white", and he's "mixed".)

Speaking of which

"Oppression in the system!"

The loudest of voting U.S. Citizens are "gun toting right wing republican racists".

Speaking of which
Obama would be nowhere without his skin color. He was created by the media, his entire image. Yes, America would elect a black President, but I hope not someone like Obama.

Condi for instance, or Colin Powell. Not a black politician who supports things like racial sensitivity training and represents the worst part of America, racial identity politics.

Obama would be nowhere without his skin color. He was created by the media, his entire image. Yes, America would elect a black President, but I hope not someone like Obama.

Condi for instance, or Colin Powell. Not a black politician who supports things like racial sensitivity training and represents the worst part of America, racial identity politics.




God, your either totally ignorant or a wormy little troll, which is it? Youve proven to me time and time again you dont know anything, and I know Ive personally shut you down time and time again, so Im wondering....are you for real?


Colin Powell had my faith until that whole Iraq bullshit thing, where he bent over and took it just because Bush told him too, and was the mouth peice for an administration and its prepetual lies.

Condi is the above, except she didnt have the decency to think to herself "Oh God what am I doing? What have I become?" and resign.

Ill take anyone over one of these Republican neocon fuck ups who continually bone this country in the intrest of Jesus, corperations, and other right leaning special interest groups.

I encourage all foreigners to ignore anything this poster says as the fringe of American society. Unfortunitally whoever said the loudest voice heard from the states is the gun toting American right wing nut was right.

Unfortunitally whoever said the loudest voice heard from the states is the gun toting American right wing nut was right.

See: radio talk-show hosts.

I can understand the majority of that but Bud Light? thats just plain wrong ;)

Indeed.











Wait. I just agreed with you? :::head explodes::: LOL



Americans are racist rednecks with shotguns who hunt Mexicans on the border and drink only Bud Light. They will never elect a black man President. [/sarcasm]

:( Sadly needed.

Obama would be nowhere without his skin color. He was created by the media, his entire image. Yes, America would elect a black President, but I hope not someone like Obama.

Condi for instance, or Colin Powell. Not a black politician who supports things like racial sensitivity training and represents the worst part of America, racial identity politics.

LOL I'm not even going to bother.

Anywho, Beeker, yeah, I think the fact that the Gen-Xers are growing up and the Gen-Ys are in the middle of coming of age is what makes a large part of the difference. The US shifts a bit slower than Europe, but the country as a whole almost certainly has moved beyond the 60s in the terms of race. (And is in the process of doing so in leadership as well, it would seem. ;))

Mitt Romney :(

I said I was white, not religious white! :p

Americans are racist rednecks with shotguns who hunt Mexicans on the border and drink only Bud Light. They will never elect a black man President. [/sarcasm]


I resent that.

I said I was white, not religious white! :p

It's all VietnamSounds' fault...
He posted the picture of Mitt that I had looked at just before responding

Indeed.











Wait. I just agreed with you? :::head explodes::: LOL

Will wonders ever cease eh daisy? ;)

Condi for instance, or Colin Powell. Not a black politician who supports things like racial sensitivity training and represents the worst part of America, racial identity politics.

"The policies — determining who would be drafted and who would be deferred, who would serve and who would escape, who would die and who would live — were an antidemocratic disgrace...I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well placed...managed to wangle slots in reserve and National Guard units. Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."

-- My American Journey by Colin Powell

It's actually a very good book. I recommend it.

"The policies — determining who would be drafted and who would be deferred, who would serve and who would escape, who would die and who would live — were an antidemocratic disgrace...I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well placed...managed to wangle slots in reserve and National Guard units. Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."

-- My American Journey by Colin Powell

It's actually a very good book. I recommend it.

Now if that doesnt fly in the face of Neocon thought. There is no class in America! Poor people are just lazy!! ZOMG

I for one am rather sceptical...any man of non white origin that has had any semblance of power in the US has tended to end up on the mortuary slab...

Can this guy really get the votes of the conservative middle america?

Id like an American view point on this because to be honest ive been following it with amazement...

And here was me thinking the majority of voting US Citizens were gun toting right wing republican racists...do I stand corrected?

Can Barak Obama really become President of the United States?

He might well do it. Why so shocked?

you must admit though America hardly has the best record for racial acceptance...even in recent history...I dont want to be offensive to anyone on that side of the pond but I think it's a case of old habits die hard in the echelons of power over there...

...and your side of the pond is better? BNP and all that?

No, no, no. There is no slot in the birth certificate for "race". That is one of the things that disappeared in the dim past.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/88/Weird.gif

I beg to differ. If you examine the sample, there are clearly questions about race under the section "Information for Medical and Health Use Only."

...and your side of the pond is better? BNP and all that?
Pewww, your nationalism smells!

Pewww, your nationalism smells!

I'm sorry, I thought I heard something... it couldn't have been too important.

No, no, no. There is no slot in the birth certificate for "race". That is one of the things that disappeared in the dim past.

how long ago? my 4 year old has it on her Birth Certificate.

Will wonders ever cease eh daisy? ;)

Indeed. ;) (And there aren't too many who recall that one.)

Yes he can. People have no idea. The main problem today is calling him black. He's not black. He's a human.

Security is so good now after Kennedy, Reagan's almost, and 9/11 shit. Bush is hated so much but only had one attempt in another country--a dud grenade in Georgia.

As I just posted in another thread:

racial prejudice among white people is largely contextual (and self-denied). What they despise is the black man who wears baggy clothes and talks like a gangsta, or the black woman who sasses at them. Obama is a sufficiently transcendent figure that he does not push the same mental buttons that raise all the racial preconceptions in the average prejudiced non-black person.

Yes he can. People have no idea. The main problem today is calling him black. He's not black. He's a human.

Oh any sane person knows that...but the voting american public? In a nation saturated with bias crime programmes who only seem to show african americans getting arrested?

I see no reason that Obama couldn't get elected. No doubt there will be SOME fools who will vote color, but not the majority, probably not even a significant minority. Many people want a change, and he's the only mainstream candidate who MIGHT change anything.

Yes he can. People have no idea. The main problem today is calling him black. He's not black. He's a human.then what's all this shit about "black enough" ?

Oh any sane person knows that...but the voting american public? In a nation saturated with bias crime programmes who only seem to show african americans getting arrested?

Or Britain is a nation saturated with hundreds of absolute untruths about the American voting people :p;). Personally, I'm pretty sure you guys are just as worked up about the "Moozlemz Immigrantz" as we are about our illegals. Anti-Black racism? NFW. Thats long gone.

Obama has the potential to be the next president. If he and McCain get the nominations (which seems possible), the resulting election will be one hell of a fight. Obama has youth, brings a new face to the field (fact: Obama became a politician in the 21st century), and a large supply of charisma. McCain has experience, the war hero factor (a boon in any election), and the Republican war machine at his command.

Race will not be a major factor for Obama. There will be attempts to prove that McCain is a racist, I can guarantee that.

I am a McCain supporter caught in a bind over the Dems. On the one hand, I like Obama better than Hillary. On the other hand, Hillary will probably lose to McCain, while Obama has a 50/50 chance.

Ah but is that true? Or is it just what the media will have you believe? ;)

Yes, racism is still alive, well, and rears its ugly head, but it's far less prevalent than you think it is. Not all of America is like the Deep South, just like not all people in the Deep South are racist rednecks. Generalizations = failure

Anti-Black racism? NFW. Thats long gone.

Ah but is that true? Or is it just what the media will have you believe? ;)

wasnt it true (according to Michael Moore) that alot of the black population found it hard to register to vote due to convenient red tape put in their way at the last couple of elections?

It might very well be. I honestly don't know. If so, it's news to me.

Ah but is that true? Or is it just what the media will have you believe? ;)

Dammit Eudnam, you beat me to it! Just like a majority of americans (65%) are for gun control. Not that you'd hear that from the British media. And only a tiny percentage of America is still out-and-out racist; after all idiots will always exist in every nation

Yes, racism is still alive, well, and rears its ugly head, but it's far less prevalent than you think it is. Not all of America is like the Deep South, just like not all people in the Deep South are racist rednecks. Generalizations = failure

hmmm...im not sweeping America in its entirety here...just voting America...wasnt it true (according to Michael Moore) that alot of the black population found it hard to register to vote due to convenient red tape put in their way at the last couple of elections?

You judge America from Micheal Moore movies? That explains a lot. His job is to video tape himself complaining and call it a documentary even though he doesn't present both sides.

You judge America from Micheal Moore movies? That explains a lot. His job is to video tape himself complaining and call it a documentary even though he doesn't present both sides.

wtf planet are you on? yes I REALLY do judge people on Michael Moore movies...for fucks sake where do you people come from? hahahahaha

Here in NYC, racism is an everyday thing. It is so deep in our cultural system that some people do the most racist things without knowing it. That being said, sexism seems more accepted than racism here in the US. People tends to get away with making remarks about women in general without being call a sexist. Black civil rights movement are also more recognized when compare to the feminist movement here in the US. To some extend being label as a feminist might actually be interpreted as a bad thing.

If Obama is nominated, would he have a chance? I would say yes. After all 1/3 of the people will always vote for democrats, 1/3 will always vote for republicans. It's the remaining indecisive that really determines the vote. This will help rule out many hardcore racist. If Obama manage to be nominated under Clinton's "Obama is a black candidate" attacks. Perhaps he have a shot at winning over the 1/3 indecisive as well.

If you want to know what America is like you should read more American newspapers and actually go to America. Watching a movie by somebody with a political agenda isn't reliable. There are people out there who still make real documentarys that are unbiased.

I assumed Obama would win the primary before, now I'm not so sure about it.
Here in NYC, racism is an everyday thing. It is so deep in our cultural system that some people do the most racist things without knowing it. That being said, sexism seems more accepted than racism here in the US. People tends to get away with making remarks about women in general without being call a sexist. Black civil rights movement are also more recognized when compare to the feminist movement here in the US. To some extend being label as a feminist might actually be interpreted as a bad thing.I agree about this. I told my mom yesterday that I wish Clinton was a better politician because I'd like to see a woman as president. My mom said that black people have suffered more than women. That's not true at all. Women are oppressed all over the world, black people are only oppressed in some parts. People don't even recognize things such as rape and domestic abuse as sexism. Feminism is considered a thing of the past, even though there are still some sports women cannot participate in and some careers that our society frowns upon if a woman is interested in them.

If you want to know what America is like you should read more American newspapers and actually go to America. Watching a movie by somebody with a political agenda isn't reliable. There are people out there who still make real documentarys that are unbiased.

Ive been to America more times than I can remember and thankfully never met anyone like you

how long ago? my 4 year old has it[race] on her Birth Certificate.
Really? What state are you from?

Yes Americans are stupid and blind and racist (blind and racist?...hmm) and the only presidents we've had were 60 year old white bald guys (look whos running for the Republican Party). But the Dem Party has come with a woman and a black, making a minority a majority in the party, and hopefully America agrees. GO OBAMA!!!

Thats a very sweeping statement, "ALL Americans". You fail.

At this point the average American would vote for a bowl of chowder, as long as it meant getting Bush out of office.

Really? What state are you from?

one of the racist ones.

my other daughter was born in Arizona though and her BC also has a race box.

Im not knocking it...to be honest I think it is an absolutely amazing step in the right direction and American politics is actually taking my interest for the first time since....well....ever

I really do hope he does very well...hence the thread...nationstates is as good a cross section of American society as any...thought id see how the land lies when it comes to support for the guy.

If we was a conservative I would vote for him, in fact, I think it would be great if a black republican ran. But, as it is, no, he is WAY to left-wing.

At this point the average American would vote for a bowl of chowder, as long as it meant getting Bush out of office.

Until they realize too late that the bowl of chowder is Bush-flavored.

how long ago? my 4 year old has it on her Birth Certificate.

Wow! That's crazy Smunk! I don't get the racial category thing...if someone is half 'white' and half 'black'...which little race box gets checked...are they caucasian or African American?

Then again, in the US, it seems that if you are even a little black you are black, period. Go to Latin America and you'll see blacker people than Obama claiming to be white...and being VERY offended to be called black when they go to the US or Canada (woohoo for black on black racism:P).

If we was a conservative I would vote for him, in fact, I think it would be great if a black republican ran. But, as it is, no, he is WAY to left-wing.


Anyone who doesnt support stoning of gays in the public square is too left wing for you.

A black republican would have a very hard time in areas a black democract doesnt. As I said, anyone who wont vote for someone just because they're black, doesnt vote democrat anyway.

*pulls out her daughter's BC* (I happen to have because of recent enrollment)

the boxes are as follows

white- non-hispanic
African American
Native American
Asian American
Hispanic American
Bi-racial_________
other___________



I would write "other: crab people"

I can understand the majority of that but Bud Light? thats just plain wrong ;)

Bud Light is horrifying...yech.

Wow! That's crazy Smunk! I don't get the racial category thing...if someone is half 'white' and half 'black'...which little race box gets checked...are they caucasian or African American?

Then again, in the US, it seems that if you are even a little black you are black, period. Go to Latin America and you'll see blacker people than Obama claiming to be white...and being VERY offended to be called black when they go to the US or Canada (woohoo for black on black racism:P).

*pulls out her daughter's BC* (I happen to have because of recent enrollment)

the boxes are as follows

white- non-hispanic
African American
Native American
Asian American
Hispanic American
Bi-racial_________
other___________


I forgot to say that we didn't mark the race on either of their BC's because hubby resents being called white, he's peach damn it!

Obama is black, and I'm racist, but I would vote for a gay president.

?

I resent that.

No, no, no, you ruined the flow of the sarcasm. You're supposed to interject (three stooges style!) I REPRESENT that!!! *nyuknyuknyuk*

Obama is black, and I'm racist, but I would vote for a gay president.

Generalization, fail.


Not a generalization. Im singling out you. And from what Ive read posted by you in the past, Id say my assessment is pretty accurate.

Everyone's a Little Bit Racist, from Avenue Q:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9CSnlb-ymA

The song ends with:

Everyone's a little bit racist
It's true.
But everyone is just about
As racist as you!
If we all could just admit
That we are racist a little bit,
And everyone stopped being
So PC
Maybe we could live in -
Harmony!


Great show. So much wisdom from puppets.

Anyone who doesnt support stoning of gays in the public square is too left wing for you.



Generalization, fail.

Bi-racial_____

WTF is Bi-Racial?

Does that mean you can speak in different colours? *joke*

What an ugly term!

WTF is Bi-Racial?

Does that mean you can speak in different colours?

What an ugly term!

Incase that was not sarcasm, it means that you have mixed blood, white/black, asian,black, ect.

Incase that was not sarcasm, it means that you have mixed blood, white/black, asian,black, ect.

haha...I can be an idiot at times...but trust me...im not that stupid ;)

Just out of curiousity...

anyone else note Rev Jesse Jackson squirming whenever someone mentions Obama being the first black presidential candidate?

haha...I can be an idiot at times...but trust me...im not that stupid ;)

Awww, I didn't see the *joke* I feel dumb now. :(

Awww, I didn't see the *joke* I feel dumb now. :(

dont worry about it...I actually edited straight after I posted just in case people really did think my faculties were eroded ;)

dont worry about it...I actually edited straight after I posted just in case people really did think my faculties were eroded ;)

I just thought that PC had gotten so far in Britain that nobody knew any race terms.

I just thought that PC had gotten so far in Britain that nobody knew any race terms.except for horse race

except for horse race

Bravo! A++!

haha...It did get stupid for awhile granted...I remember when things like saying blackboard was frowned upon in schools...I mean for fucks sake...most of my mates are black and we used to have a real laugh over the stupidity

Obama is black, and I'm racist, but I would vote for a gay president.

You are truly confused, man. Seriously. You would vote for a gay person so long as they are white (presumably.) Which means you don't really have a problem with gays-----unless you'd vote for a straight person over a gay person so long as both were white, or at least so long as neither were black (or any other fill-in-the-blank non-white racial group) and NOT gay (or perhaps that doesn't matter for non-white candidates)

my head hurts now. Deciphering idiots is just too painful. :headbang:

Nah, it's in the constitution that blacks can't be president.

I for one am rather sceptical...any man of non white origin that has had any semblance of power in the US has tended to end up on the mortuary slab...

Can this guy really get the votes of the conservative middle america?

Id like an American view point on this because to be honest ive been following it with amazement...

And here was me thinking the majority of voting US Citizens were gun toting right wing republican racists...do I stand corrected?

Can Barak Obama really become President of the United States?

I think that a lot of non-US people think that we're a nation of Klansmen, and that absolutely nothing has changed in our society since the heyday of the Klan.

Right wing does not equate with "racists" here in the US. The predominant party of the Klan for decades was the Democratic Party - up until the aftermath of the Civil Rights Movement.

Gun toting also does not equate with "racists".

If you've seen some of Hillary's local ads, you'll find enough subtle hints at racism to make you think that Hillary's primary goal is to scare people out of voting for a black man. Obviously, that tactic is not working.

So have some faith in us, and visit the US for six months to see how blind you've been.

It looks like black has a better chance than female.

Of course, Hillary was just the best person in the world to break the gender barrier, wasn't she. Thanks to her exemplary handling of this campaign, I suspect it will be years before a woman is considered again.

And really, this race/gender issue is just stupid and I wish people would get past it. I won't vote for Obama because I don't like his politics (what little I've seen of it, which isn't much). I won't vote for Hillary because I don't like her. If Colin Powell were running, I would vote for him because he's a strong moderate. It's just a pity that there's no strong, moderate female, except, perhaps Condaleeza Rice and she'd lose because, regardless of her abililty and intelligence, she's black, female and, unfortunately, associated with George Bush.

Of course, Hillary was just the best person in the world to break the gender barrier, wasn't she. Thanks to her exemplary handling of this campaign, I suspect it will be years before a woman is considered again.


I had thought initially that she would have a good chance of winning the nomination merely by standing around and saying, "I'm Hillary Clinton!"

Instead, this air of ruthlessness and entitlement came out...

Kinda scary. And it made me think, "this is Dick Cheney in a dress..."

I think it could work. After all, we Had Maggie Thatcher. And She Was The Best! (insert tune of "Simply The Best" here).

Hillary will loose as she is just way too reliant on her husband's image.

That makes sense. But I still don't understand why I am considered a bigot because he looks half black to me, and in fact actually is half black.

It matters because it is the topic of discussion in this thread.

I don't believe that all black people act in a stereotypically black manner. But I don't think it's fair that you start a thread asking what the American perception of black people is, and then when I try to explain the American perception of black people, you take it as my own personal opinion and get pissed off.

Everything you've posted so far has been spot on, inasamuch as it is a completely unbiased, detached exposition of common american sentiments, in response to a question about the same.

A lot of your detractors have demonstrated an inability to understand what they read, particularly in confusing your convictions with your estimation of other people's, and in inventing motives where none can be honestly or validly implied.

Always bear in mind that most people can't understand things they read well enough to form coherent or fully intelligent reactions to them, especially at the age of most posters on the forum. It isn't that people are stupid, it's just that they haven't learned to evaluate what they read and understand it yet. This realization can save a lot of otherwise frustration.

If you don't vote for Obama, you are a racist. If you don't vote for Hillary, you are a sexist.

If they are elected and you disagree, it's because you are a racist or a sexist. That will be the discussion on every political issue in the future. God bless diversity.

If you don't vote for Obama, you are a racist. If you don't vote for Hillary, you are a sexist.

If they are elected and you disagree, it's because you are a racist or a sexist. That will be the discussion on every political issue in the future. God bless diversity.



Considering you just admitted 5 minutes ago that you indeed are a bigot (Im sigging that admission) I would say the reason you disagree is because you are a sexist or a bigot.


EDIT: Oh, and yes, I agree. Damn diversity. All dem gawd damn minorities n uppity womenz need to learn tder place n let us white guys decide whats best for everyone. But only if their straight. Fuck fags.

If it had been any other situation than just coming off of 8 years of GWB, I'd honestly say no, we wouldn't elect a black president.

If it had been any other situation than just coming off of 8 years of GWB, I'd honestly say no, we wouldn't elect a black president.

I think anyone who thinks that America as a whole would have a problem with electing a black president seriously underestimates how far Americans have come.


A women or non Christian is a totally different issue, however.

Electing Obama would be the end of Democracy in America and the start of a new Dictatorship. Yes. I speak the truth, for I have often heard "Once you go Black you don't go back."

Electing Obama would be the end of Democracy in America and the start of a new Dictatorship. Yes. I speak the truth, for I have often heard "Once you go Black you don't go back."

/thread

Electing Obama would be the end of Democracy in America and the start of a new Dictatorship. Yes. I speak the truth, for I have often heard "Once you go Black you don't go back."

:confused:

I think you'll get the best answer from me since I'm an African-American,Even though I'm 1/4 European(I'm 1/8 French and 1/8 German).Anyway,I fell that Obama has a hell of a good chance of becoming President of the USA, but He'll for sure have lots of opposition. I think if blacks get off their asses and vote for him he'll have a even better chance.


Yes,I think Blacks should vote for Obama because we may never have another chance at the Presidency!Go,Obama!

EDIT: Oh, and yes, I agree. Damn diversity. All dem gawd damn minorities n uppity womenz need to learn tder place n let us white guys decide whats best for everyone. But only if their straight. Fuck fags.

No, you idiot! If we fuck fags then we're no better then they are!

No, you idiot! If we fuck fags then we're no better then they are!

lol!

Perhaps only his father could trace his ancestry back to Africa, but I doubt the guys at stormfront would vote for him. I think that makes him "black enough"

not that I really care about that sort of thing.