NationStates Jolt Archive

Often abortion is related to as almost murder. This may be true and in many cases abortion is just to suit the would be parents, this is wrong!
The unborn fetus may not yet be in the world but it is still a life that is taken before it has started.
These reasons lend themselves to Banning abortions, BUT!
Think of the life of a child with a disability, one that the doctors can predict BEFORE the fetus is born.
Then would you let the parents have an abortion or let them face the pain of having their child grow up in pain and with disabilities and a possibly shorter life, surely it is kinder in these circumstances to let the family (if they choose to) have an abortion.


This is my new proposal, now i know people will vote on it if it gets enough support but i would like more than just a vote, i want you to tell me what you think!

If I am currently pregnant, I will abort. No, it's not murder. I would be ridding my body of an unwanted parasite.

This may be how you feel, but that is an extremely strong way of putting it
"an unwanted parasite"?

Surely then methods of contraception would have been used?
This sort of Abortion is talking about unsure people

If someone is so sure that you did not want a child then you would have stopped it being conceived.

This may be how you feel, but that is an extremely strong way of putting it
"an unwanted parasite"?

Surely then methods of contraception would have been used?
This sort of Abortion is talking about unsure people

If someone is so sure that you did not want a child then you would have stopped it being conceived.
Nothing is foolproof.

This may be how you feel, but that is an extremely strong way of putting it
"an unwanted parasite"?

Surely then methods of contraception would have been used?
This sort of Abortion is talking about unsure people

If someone is so sure that you did not want a child then you would have stopped it being conceived.

Contraception was used. Contraception may have failed. Abortion is not a method of contraception, it is a serious medical procedure that should only be used when all contraceptive methods have failed. I am certain I do not want another child at this time, but I am not certain that I will never wish to conceive again, hence my lack of a tubal ligation.

As to 'uncertain people'...well what is the point of talking about abortion only as a hypothetical?

If I am pregnant, the organism growing inside me is unwanted. It will live off me, and I do not consent to this. It's existence is the definition of parasite.

If I am currently pregnant, I will abort. No, it's not murder. I would be ridding my body of an unwanted parasite.

ummm.....if you were pregnant, i would assume you had been engaging in activities that are known to possibly bring about that very result....

the fetus is genetically human, and not genetically a part of the mother. therefore, scientifically, it is a unique human life from the moment of conception. philosophically, it must therefore have all the rights of any other human being. just my two cents. argue with my opinion if you like, but i doubt you can argue with the facts and chain of resoning presented.

This may be how you feel, but that is an extremely strong way of putting it
"an unwanted parasite"?

Surely then methods of contraception would have been used?
This sort of Abortion is talking about unsure people

If someone is so sure that you did not want a child then you would have stopped it being conceived.

Imo abortion is really just retroactive contraception.

I know nothing is foolproof and i admit my mistake, anyway, a child wiht disablities that can be predicted before the fetus is born, would that qualify as a sufficient reason for an abortion?

Take an example

"There is a Family of four, A mom, a dad and two boys, both boys are very active and often fight.
The mother becomes pregnant and finds that the child wil suffer from a metal and physicall disabillity."

How would the family cope? surely then an abortion is almost kinder to the unborn child than letting it live?

yaaaay another abortion thread

*has an abortion*

wait, I have a penis so I can't have one:(

yaaaay another abortion thread



Yeah, not sure why we need another.

For the first trimester, the zygote isn't even considered a fetus by medical science. It's a blob of mostly undifferentiated cells.

and this little comment couldn't have been made in the other thread entitled "Abortion" on the first fucking page why, exactly?

and this little comment couldn't have been made in the other thread entitled "Abortion" on the first fucking page why, exactly?

Brilliant new insight that needed a new thread?

ummm.....if you were pregnant, i would assume you had been engaging in activities that are known to possibly bring about that very result....

Technically, the same goes for many dieases as well, but refusal of treatment on THOSE isn't justified in such a manner.

the fetus is genetically human, and not genetically a part of the mother. therefore, scientifically, it is a unique human life from the moment of conception. philosophically, it must therefore have all the rights of any other human being. just my two cents. argue with my opinion if you like, but i doubt you can argue with the facts and chain of resoning presented.

Human genetics and personhood are not mutually inclusive concepts, so your argument is fallacious due to as lack of any connection between the premise and conclusion.

Wait, wait, copy thread

Mods, please kill it with fire.

http://rofl.wheresthebeef.co.uk/Kill%20it%20With%20Fire%20Aliens.jpg

Brilliant new insight that needed a new thread?

my ass.

this one is different it is to discuss the possibility of abortion being better for a family than having a child grow up in pain and having a dissability

my position is that the government should have no control of peoples reproductive rights believe it or not a woman is a sentient creature (so long as she has enough shoes I should add)

If someone is so sure that you did not want a child then you would have stopped it being conceived.

yeah all those teenagers who get pregnant should be made to suffer for the crime of being stupid

its not like you have any biology behind your claim that all fetus stages are alive now

wait, I have a penis so I can't have one:(

I wish I had people poking around with my penis :(

moving on,
What do you feel about chinas one child policy?
is it an infringement on human rights or is it just a way of controlling the population?

and this little comment couldn't have been made in the other thread entitled "Abortion" on the first fucking page why, exactly?

Because "AMG ITS TOETALY A BAY-BEE" is a fresh new take on the abortion debate?

this one is different it is to discuss the possibility of abortion being better for a family than having a child grow up in pain and having a dissability

weird how you just mention disability its a rather vague term to say the least, unless of course you don't like the blind or something

This makes no sense. (http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9877/robertarkinislameex4.png)

You're right there. and?
Personally i think Abortion should be made legal in all cases.

EDIT: epic timewarp

and this little comment couldn't have been made in the other thread entitled "Abortion" on the first fucking page why, exactly?

Son of a bitch, I wasn't paying attention.
Wait, wait, copy thread

Mods, please kill it with fire.

http://rofl.wheresthebeef.co.uk/Kill%20it%20With%20Fire%20Aliens.jpg
Burn!! BURN!!!!

ummm.....if you were pregnant, i would assume you had been engaging in activities that are known to possibly bring about that very result.... I drive too...is it my fault when someone slams into my car and injures me? We engage in a range of activities that do not automatically mean we consent to certain outcomes. At no point did I want to become pregnant, and it is my choice to once again not be pregnant. I can have all the sex that is humanly possible and this fact will not be changed.

the fetus is genetically human, and not genetically a part of the mother. Oh well in that case, take it out and let it grow in a test tube. I'm sure it'll do fine.

Oh wait...it won't. It will most likely die. Therefore, scientifically it would be living off me.therefore, scientifically, it is a unique human life from the moment of conception. philosophically, it must therefore have all the rights of any other human being. just my two cents. argue with my opinion if you like, but i doubt you can argue with the facts and chain of resoning presented.You're right. I can't possibly argue with the facts and chain of reasoning presented which goes like:

1) You had sex, you have to stay pregnant because you had sex and sex can lead to pregnancy sometimes.

2) The fetus is genetically human and not a part of the mother except that of course it draws all the materials for its growth from its mother and cannot live outside it's mother at this point, and um, therefore it's human and has human rights and um, those rights trump your rights to choose NOT to let it live off you.

Let me ask you something. A man needs your kidneys to live. Your right to autonomy of the body clearly does not trump his human rights to live. He will be connected to you physically in order to use your kidneys.

You're fine with your lack of choice?

This makes no sense. (http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9877/robertarkinislameex4.png)

my ass.

Well that is a whole different discussion. I was simply anticipating the OP's raison d'être.

its both silly, however it needs to be done because otherwise China will die of thirst

Women need to start taking multiple husbands if they want to retain any semblance of social order.

moving on,
What do you feel about chinas one child policy?
is it an infringement on human rights or is it just a way of controlling the population?

its both silly, however it needs to be done because otherwise China will die of thirst

Think of the life of a child with a disability, one that the doctors can predict BEFORE the fetus is born.
Then would you let the parents have an abortion or let them face the pain of having their child grow up in pain and with disabilities and a possibly shorter life, surely it is kinder in these circumstances to let the family (if they choose to) have an abortion.

That's completely ridiculous. Maybe you need to realize that once you set foot on a slope that slippery, the execution of people with disabilities won't be far away. It's hard to go back on something once it's been put in place (ie. abortion, welfare)

I know nothing is foolproof and i admit my mistake, anyway, a child wiht disablities that can be predicted before the fetus is born, would that qualify as a sufficient reason for an abortion?

Take an example

"There is a Family of four, A mom, a dad and two boys, both boys are very active and often fight.
The mother becomes pregnant and finds that the child wil suffer from a metal and physicall disabillity."

How would the family cope? surely then an abortion is almost kinder to the unborn child than letting it live?I am for abortion.

However, aborting a child because of a possible mental or physical disability is nothing short of wrong. There is no way to even possibly know whether the child would have a good life if he was born. There absolutely is not.

I have a physical disability, and my biological parents didn't have the resources or will to take care of me, so I was put up for adoption. It would have been such a damn shame if they had chosen to abort me instead; a perfectly happy, compassionate and productive member of society.

No less than 50 years ago, people with my specific disability weren't even given a chance at birth, and were basically left for dead. Thankfully they learned ways for us to live and lead meaningful lives, but many people still don't think we're capable of happiness, or able to be anything but a leech or burden on society.

So no. Under no circumstance should a child be aborted for such a reason. At least in my humble opinion.

Women need to start taking multiple husbands if they want to retain any semblance of social order.

and so the optimum breeding math-pattern-thing (7 woman to one man) will be even more distorted than it already is meaning even less babies!

and so the optimum breeding math-pattern-thing (7 woman to one man) will be even more distorted than it already is meaning even less babies!

Stop gap solution to the huge gender inequity AND a more fun method of reducing the population :P

this one is different it is to discuss the possibility of abortion being better for a family than having a child grow up in pain and having a dissabilityWho says the child will grow up in pain?

This is scientifically incorrect. Dont claim to have science on your side when your 100% fucking wrong.
Yeah, could we please get this thread merged into the existing thread on this topic? That way maybe we won't have to explain all the exact same shit we explained in that thread.

You know, the other thread called "Abortion"? That's on the front page? That has addressed every single ignorant cop-out anti-choice error already brought up on this one? The one that some anti-choicers appear to be too lazy to read, despite how very very much they care about this topic?

So no. Under no circumstance should a child be aborted for such a reason. At least in my humble opinion.

Under no circumstances? So you wouldn't have a woman carry a fetus to term against her will UNLESS it was disabled?

Under no circumstances? So you wouldn't have a woman carry a fetus to term against her will UNLESS it was disabled?A woman should be able to abort it for that reason if she wishes, but I personally don't think it's right.

the fetus is genetically human, and not genetically a part of the mother.


Debatable.


therefore, scientifically, it is a unique human life from the moment of conception.



This is scientifically incorrect. Dont claim to have science on your side when your 100% fucking wrong.


EDIT: Sorry for the f bomb and the outburst, Im just getting really sick of the scientifically ignorant claiming something to be scientific fact when its not.

ummm.....if you were pregnant, i would assume you had been engaging in activities that are known to possibly bring about that very result....

the fetus is genetically human, and not genetically a part of the mother. therefore, scientifically, it is a unique human life from the moment of conception. philosophically, it must therefore have all the rights of any other human being. just my two cents. argue with my opinion if you like, but i doubt you can argue with the facts and chain of resoning presented.

I certainly can argue with those facts sneaky puppet. Your finger nails and hair are- technically speaking- gentically human but you wouldn't jump into dabate to stop people from cutting their hair. This arguement should not be about genetics, it should ask whether these unborn babies are capable of thought as we understand it. Do they feel pain at this stage, or have they had any thoughts that are of deep relevance- have they loved or hated or so on. It is our experiences and emotions that make us human, that make us sentient life forms. Nothing else. I am not naking any judgements for or against those who use abortion but surely this is where we should center any discussion, from a philosophical point of view. I personally am pro choice/ pro abotion- however you want to say it, but I have nothing against those who believe this is wrong and I value their viewpoint.

This thread is now aborted. Please feel free to adopt the abortion thread that's already living.

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