NationStates Jolt Archive

We're going to assume for this that there is a god...

I was thinking why is it that there were such spectacular miracles in the times of the bible, and now there isn't... My theory on this is that God so how we were coming along and said "Bugger this, let it run itself" and went and made a new universe to try again.

Thoughts?











And no, this isn't meant to be trolling, or troll-bait, I was just tired at work today and my mind was wandering a bit

Sounds a lot like deism.

"Inconsequential claptrap!" sputtered the Funambule.

Who says that there aren't? Is the splitting of the atom less of a miracle than the parting of the red seas, simply because we understand it better? I posit that just as a toddler requires more direct intervention in it's than that of a teenager, Humanity experienced far more 'miracles' in its infancy than today. Now, as a more developed humanity rises, the interventions are no longer mind-blowing in their capacity, nor as frequently necessary.

I think that lots of people still do claim miracles as happening.
That if they do exist then they can prove a God.
However i've noticed Christians have miralces featuring their God and Muslims and other faiths their own God, so i ask why don't they have miracles made by some God they haven't heard of than their one?

Another theory on a God (if one does exist) is that he/she hates you and doesn't care anymore.

A different argument might be God's moral decisions are not the same as human ones, just because a God created humans does not mean this God is the same as Humans (assuming this God created the universe specifically for humans).

Or perhaps there was a creator a grand designer but not of Godlike powers, and is condemned by others in his race to make the universe each time from atoms to leave the ideal result (as the universe i assume repeats itself over and over like groundhog universe) as a punishment for assuming this being is justified in creating the ideal race to bring their ultimate answer to their question, "how did they get created, and why do they have so much power and no given purpose?".
You could argue that a God just does not exist.
So i'm not sure.

We're going to assume for this that there is a god...


Thats where you make your first mistake of this thread ;)

I was thinking why is it that there were such spectacular miracles in the times of the bible, and now there isn't...


Because there isnt a God, and those miracles in the Bible are...well...fiction.

God had a shitload of energy at the beginning of time, but used most of it up creating time, which is why he was so human-like to adam and eve (Being confused about their activities and such.)

He slowly got more power, affecting things like lifespans and who gets pregnant and making sticks change the colors of livestock offspring.

then something would happen that would take all the energy he had stored up and he'd be right back at ground zero.

things like nuking sodom and gomorra, the flood, and moving the light on the earth by exact degrees.

Then after he did something big, he'd have to do small stuff to stay relevant-burning bushes for example.

He was probably most drained when he couldn't help the israelites defeat another army because the other army had iron chariots (In Joshua I think).

Anyway, now he's saving it all up for bigass Armageddon, but it's taking longer than he thought cause Jesus promised that the world would end in the disciples lifetimes.



So...God is like a rechargeable battery?

Gaulph Rabi responded to the indolent questions of Ivanello: "...no confusion whatever! The Collegium is often known as 'the Convergence', or even as 'the Hub', in a jocular sense, of course. But the essence is identical."
"I fear you have the better of me," said Ivanello. "I am lost in a jungle of terminology."
"Aha! There speaks the voice of the layman! I will simplify!"
"Please do."
"Think of a set of imaginary spokes, representing between twenty and thirty infinites--the exact number is still uncertain. They converge in a focus of pure sentience; they intermingle then diverge in the opposite direction. The location of this 'Hub' is precisely known; it is within the precinct of the Collegium."
Varmous called out a question: "What does it look like?"
Gaulph Rabi gazed a long moment into the dying fire. "I think that I will not answer that question," he said at last. "I would create as many false images as there were ears to hear me."
"Half as many." Clissum pointed out delicately.
Ivanello smiled lazily up toward the night sky, where Alphard the Lonely stood in the ascendant. "It would seem that a single infinity would suffice for your studies. Is it not grandiose the preempt so many?"
Gaulph Rabi thrust forward his great narrow face. "Why not study for a term or two at the Collegium and discover for yourself?"
"I will give thought to the matter."

We're going to assume for this that there is a god...

I was thinking why is it that there were such spectacular miracles in the times of the bible, and now there isn't... My theory on this is that God so how we were coming along and said "Bugger this, let it run itself" and went and made a new universe to try again.

Thoughts?


God had a shitload of energy at the beginning of time, but used most of it up creating time, which is why he was so human-like to adam and eve (Being confused about their activities and such.)

He slowly got more power, affecting things like lifespans and who gets pregnant and making sticks change the colors of livestock offspring.

then something would happen that would take all the energy he had stored up and he'd be right back at ground zero.

things like nuking sodom and gomorra, the flood, and moving the light on the earth by exact degrees.

Then after he did something big, he'd have to do small stuff to stay relevant-burning bushes for example.

He was probably most drained when he couldn't help the israelites defeat another army because the other army had iron chariots (In Joshua I think).

Anyway, now he's saving it all up for bigass Armageddon, but it's taking longer than he thought cause Jesus promised that the world would end in the disciples lifetimes.

God had a shitload of energy at the beginning of time, but used most of it up creating time, which is why he was so human-like to adam and eve (Being confused about their activities and such.)

He slowly got more power, affecting things like lifespans and who gets pregnant and making sticks change the colors of livestock offspring.

then something would happen that would take all the energy he had stored up and he'd be right back at ground zero.

things like nuking sodom and gomorra, the flood, and moving the light on the earth by exact degrees.

Then after he did something big, he'd have to do small stuff to stay relevant-burning bushes for example.

He was probably most drained when he couldn't help the israelites defeat another army because the other army had iron chariots (In Joshua I think).

Anyway, now he's saving it all up for bigass Armageddon, but it's taking longer than he thought cause Jesus promised that the world would end in the disciples lifetimes.

Bah what kind of a god runs out of energy!?

Raptor Jesus is the only true god.

We're going to assume for this that there is a god...

I was thinking why is it that there were such spectacular miracles in the times of the bible, and now there isn't... My theory on this is that God so how we were coming along and said "Bugger this, let it run itself" and went and made a new universe to try again.

Thoughts?


back in college a friend of mine who was very religious suggested that in the past miralces were god's way of advertising. they had to be big and splashy to get around. what with the lack of mass communication and all.

today one evangelist like billy graham can preach to millions. there just isnt the same need for big time miracles in this era of radio, tv, and internet.

We're going to assume for this that there is a god...

I was thinking why is it that there were such spectacular miracles in the times of the bible, and now there isn't... My theory on this is that God so how we were coming along and said "Bugger this, let it run itself" and went and made a new universe to try again.

Thoughts?

I've always kind of considered Christ to be the reason there are fewer miracles. There's a letter in...the Bible, I can't remember which, that compares humanity to the heir of an estate. When the heir is young, the guardian is constantly in their affairs. The land is still technically the heir's but he has little control over it. When he grows older, though, he has more control. My understanding is that with the coming of Christ, mankind has "come of age," we are closer to being equals of God than servants. (Not completely equal, but closer.)
Of course, this is a completely Christian-centric interpretation. As someone pointed out earlier, deism is another way to interpret God's apparent lack of involvement.

back in college a friend of mine who was very religious suggested that in the past miralces were god's way of advertising. they had to be big and splashy to get around. what with the lack of mass communication and all.

today one evangelist like billy graham can preach to millions. there just isnt the same need for big time miracles in this era of radio, tv, and internet.

That's actually a very reasonable explanation, mine's funnier though :p

It starts a few thousand years ago.
God is fed up. For the past five millennia or so, he's had to hold the hand of humanity to keep them on the right path. Even the Jews, his chosen people, can't seem to stay faithful. He turns his back for a second; they make a golden calf. He gives them paradise; they eat a forbidden apple. He gives them the world; they screw it up, and he has to flood it. Etc etc
One day God realizes that he'll never be able to either completely judge or save humanity if he stays up in the sky (or wherever.)
He decides to give people one last chance, and puts himself in human form. He allows them thirty years to change his mind and make him proud. They screw it up completely.
After preaching his entire life and giving humanity a perfect example, people STILL don't get the message. God decides he has nothing left to live for and performs a suicide-by-cop.
He is permanently dead. He never comes back. No more miracles happen after that. No interventions occur. It's all over. He's totally gone, and whatever people see of him, they're imagining.
Ironically, his suicide leads to the largest religious movement in world history. Ain't life grand?

That's actually a very reasonable explanation, mine's funnier though :p

my other (heretical) explanation is that if the first 6 days of creation took billions of years then the 7th day isnt over yet and god is still resting.

my other (heretical) explanation is that if the first 6 days of creation took billions of years then the 7th day isnt over yet and god is still resting.

That one's good too (and you would have to go and quote me before I fixed my grammatical error, wouldn't you? :mad: ;))

That one's good too (and you would have to go and quote me before I fixed my grammatical error, wouldn't you? :mad: ;))

fixed

Because Jesus solved everything supposedly, so there was no more need for divine intervention on a grand scale.

fixed

:fluffle:

I personally belive that God used miracles early on to prove to everyone that he was real, and getting them to sacrifice for their sins, and get to heaven. Finally, he (Probably) said something like "With humankind reproducing so rapidly, soon there won't be enough animals for the humans. Maybe I could make a symbolic sacrifice to convince them all that I exist and get all of them up here in heaven with me! But that would have to be a divine sacrifice to convince them..."*Looks over at Jesus" Hey son? I have something I need you to do for me..." *Afterwards* "Gosh, how dense are they! I Put my own SON through misery and death and most STILL don't belive! Well, if they don't belive now, they're not gonna belive in me no matter how many miracles I throw at them" He then left us each to make our choice.

my other (heretical) explanation is that if the first 6 days of creation took billions of years then the 7th day isnt over yet and god is still resting.
Ha! I can imagine God, in his infinitely large T-shirt watching Cosmic Football.

Actually, it's kind of a reassuring idea. We probably shouldn't sweat too much our work on earth, if the Creator himself is on holiday.

So...God is like a rechargeable battery?

Or a Dragonball Z character. The story just gets more and more ridiculous as time goes on, with the story tellers going 'well MY god did this!' and another group going 'MY god can top that with this!'

But the Jews didn't write the rise to power in chronological order, they just claimed another power level whenever it worked better with th narrative.

Ha! I can imagine God, in his infinitely large T-shirt watching Cosmic Football.

Actually, it's kind of a reassuring idea. We probably shouldn't sweat too much our work on earth, if the Creator himself is on holiday.

angels vs devils in the real superbowl?

yeah he doesnt hate us, he's just chillin'. he'll get back to it after a while and fix what needs fixing.

Thoughts?

My thought is a little went a long way. Like all infantile perspectives, it was wonderful/spectacular/miraculous if it was bright & shiny.
There are many, many current examples of that particular emotional/psychological maturity. Like the majority of religious/cult followers.

The miracles of the Bible were done through Prophets, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Even Jesus, performed miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit.

My suggestion is, that we don't see miracles because christians forget that part of the trinity. Plus (I'm a christians, so no posts on how I hate christians please) but we suck at loving people. We suck at sticking to what God set out clearly before us. Why should he trust us with his miraculous powers, when we can't even manage the small stuff?
Anyway, thats my take on it. But there are some men of God who do perform miracles. I've met one or two, and their committment to God is all consuming. I don't know if i could ever handle anything like that :(

The miracles of the Bible were done through Prophets, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Even Jesus, performed miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit.

My suggestion is, that we don't see miracles because christians forget that part of the trinity. Plus (I'm a christians, so no posts on how I hate christians please) but we suck at loving people. We suck at sticking to what God set out clearly before us. Why should he trust us with his miraculous powers, when we can't even manage the small stuff?
Anyway, thats my take on it. But there are some men of God who do perform miracles. I've met one or two, and their committment to God is all consuming. I don't know if i could ever handle anything like that :(

Weren't most biblical miracles performed cause people didn't do what god told them to? You know, what with the plagues, and the sulfur rain, and the salt pillars, and the flooding, and the smiting and all that?
When was a miracle performed when everybody did as they were told?

Perhaps people were more gullible because they were less familiar with some basic conjuring tricks carried out by charlatans.

Weren't most biblical miracles performed cause people didn't do what god told them to? You know, what with the plagues, and the sulfur rain, and the salt pillars, and the flooding, and the smiting and all that?
When was a miracle performed when everybody did as they were told?

Well, humans never really do as we're told....thats what makes us sinners.

But I think the cool thing about Jesus, is that even though people were sinners, he healed them. The lady with the issue of blood, leprosy, blindness, deafness, cripples.
Ummm, water to wine? Feeding the 5 000? On those occasions people weren't doing anything wrong, Jesus was just concerned for their happiness.

Old testament is a little bit harder. I had a stroke 2 years ago, and I lost basic maths and the Old testament...go figure...and my memory is shot to hell.....ummm...how about feeding the Israelites in the wilderness? or saving Daniel's friends from Nebachanezar's fire? Or taking Elijiah up into heaven in a chariot of fire....ummm....help anyone??

So...God is like a rechargeable battery?

He might have used Lithium Polymer technology, drained himself too much at once, swelled up and exploded.

Eww. God bits.

Miracles are still made.
God is there, in this moment ( millennium?) practicing the "wu-wei" principle,meaning he makes things happen ( with a mind that we do not understand) with apparent casuality.

We could go on speculating on this thread only for years.

By the way, in Aghartta we have many deities, exceedingly similar to the ones in the Roman Pantheon.

take care

Lupo LLI

Thoughts?
We end up shrinking her and asking her silly questions:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/ulteriormotives/Lisa_Genesis_Tub.png
"If you're so good, why do you allow bad things to happen?"

We end up shrinking her and asking her silly questions:
<SNIP>
"If you're so good, why do you allow bad things to happen?"

How is that a silly question?

Oh, grow up. He's dead. We're not gonna be seeing him anymore. Game over.
Yeesh. It's the only explanation that makes sense.

If God still performed miracles, would you be more likely to believe in him anyway?

If God still performed miracles, would you be more likely to believe in him anyway?

Probably not :(


Edit: Unless you define belief in 'him' as acceptance that he exits (it probably wouldn't make it any more likely that I would be one of his followers.

We're going to assume for this that there is a god...

I was thinking why is it that there were such spectacular miracles in the times of the bible, and now there isn't... My theory on this is that God so how we were coming along and said "Bugger this, let it run itself" and went and made a new universe to try again.

Thoughts?And no, this isn't meant to be trolling, or troll-bait, I was just tired at work today and my mind was wandering a bit

a couple of thoughts, your bible, dispite denials of many who imagine themselves its fallowers, covers a period of not six thousand years, but closer to 25 thousand years. so thats one thing. another is that biblical authors practically lived in the hyperbole jar. and the reason for this is that even as reacently as a few hundred years ago, literacy at all was the equivelant of today's tecnological "leet"-ness.

there's also the efect of language drift on interpretation of meanings. these hyperbole loving scribes were also, by all indications, speaking alligorically, so that what literally they may have ment, if they intended anything in a litteralistic sense at all, is far from certain.

fanatacism is one thing, honest religeous scholarship is entirely another.
reguardless of belief itself.

=^^=
.../\...

How is that a silly question?If God ran off to create the next universe and left us developing on our own, it would be a silly question. :)

If God ran off to create the next universe and left us developing on our own, it would be a silly question. :)

That makes two points to Laerod

a couple of thoughts, your bible(1), dispite denials of many who imagine themselves its fallowers, covers a period of not six thousand years, but closer to 25 thousand years(2). so thats one thing. another is that biblical authors practically lived in the hyperbole jar. and the reason for this is that even as recently as a few hundred years ago, literacy at all was the equivalent of today's technological "leet"-ness.

there's also the effect of language drift on interpretation of meanings. these hyperbole loving scribes were also, by all indications, speaking allegorically, so that what literally they may have meant, if they intended anything in a literalistic sense at all, is far from certain.

fanaticism is one thing, honest religious scholarship is entirely another.
regaurdless of belief itself.

1 My bible?
2 Care to back that up?
3 bolded words corrected for spelling

1 My bible?

yours, not mine, as in christianity is not the major influence on my beliefs
I'm not christian, so again... My bible?
2 Care to back that up?

open the fourth book of the old testament and count
Quite frankly, I can't be bothered to provide your proof for you, so again... Care to back that up?
3 bolded words corrected for spelling

spelling is your problem, anyplace it doesn't cause ambiguity, and a cheap way of dodging real issues.
Actually spelling is your problem (you're the one who can't do it), and how am I dodging issues?

1 My bible?

yours, not mine, as in christianity is not the major influence on my beliefs

2 Care to back that up?

open the fourth book of the old testiment and count

3 bolded words corrected for spelling

spelling is your problem, anyplace it doesn't cause ambiguity, and a cheap way of dodging real issues.

=^^=
.../\...

well that's all fine, but what WAS the point of this thread?

=^^=
.../\...

Mostly just sharing a silly thought I had while trying not to doze off at work.

well that's all fine, but what WAS the point of this thread?

=^^=
.../\...

Just asking.
(1)Yeah belief in him as in believe he exists :)
(2)What miraculous proof do you think it would take? And these are just random questions, not really going anywhere with this.

1. Well, in actuality I'm inclined to acknowledge the possibility of his existence anyways (I just doubt that if he is real, that any religion has gotten it right).
2. I don't know, my initial reaction to any 'miracle' would be to dismiss it.

Probably not :(


Edit: Unless you define belief in 'him' as acceptance that he exits (it probably wouldn't make it any more likely that I would be one of his followers.

Just asking.
Yeah belief in him as in believe he exists :)
What miraculous proof do you think it would take? And these are just random questions, not really going anywhere with this.

Perhaps people were more gullible because they were less familiar with some basic conjuring tricks carried out by charlatans.
Seconded.