NationStates Jolt Archive

well? are we really thinking, is it the media thats thinking for us or deeper yet if you please, my late night commrades, is thinking a concept at all, or did we dream it up though some deeper inbred guidelines, or do brains exist in the medium we perceve them, or is there something deeper than we just cant explain so dont try to, or attrbute to religion? not looking to offend, just discuss and discover,

yeah but many would argue there is such thing as a connection with god between them, im questioning the very basis of our limited deffinition of conciousness

If we're working on thinking as a logical process of evaluation and deduction from available input and perception, it would stand to reason that we're limited somewhat by what is presented to us.
However, some people are better at extrapolation ... and some are better at confabulation ...
and some have enough experience that their thinking doesn't need a whole lot of input from "media" or whatever.
Some people simply aren't done rolling things over in their minds.

Indeed. Furthermore, the media is not one gigantic conglomerate hive-mind(and as such does not have the same goals in mind when it comes to presenting information), and there are sources outside of it to find. Admittedly many of those sources are even lest trustworthy, but they do exist.

Not to get all cartesian, but there is something doing thinking, of this we can be sure.

If we're working on thinking as a logical process of evaluation and deduction from available input and perception, it would stand to reason that we're limited somewhat by what is presented to us.
However, some people are better at extrapolation ... and some are better at confabulation ...
and some have enough experience that their thinking doesn't need a whole lot of input from "media" or whatever.
Some people simply aren't done rolling things over in their minds.

well? are we really thinking, is it the media thats thinking for us or deeper yet if you please, my late night commrades, is thinking a concept at all, or did we dream it up though some deeper inbred guidelines, or do brains exist in the medium we perceve them, or is there something deeper than we just cant explain so dont try to, or attrbute to religion? not looking to offend, just discuss and discover,

99% of what we do and think day-to-day is unconscious, or at least a product of longstanding habits not likely to be altered past a certain age that all of us here have probably passed by a good sight. However, that last 1% can be the source of some creativity and fun, I think. :p

thinking is existence.

=^^=
.../\...

Speaking of thinking. I've been wondering why you post your cat ASCII drawing now that you've stuck it in your signature.

thinking is existence.

=^^=
.../\...

yeah but many would argue there is such thing as a connection with god between them, im questioning the very basis of our limited deffinition of conciousness
I think i've got your gist, and you're likely to get this thread into the very deep morass of "morality/ethics" and meaning ... you might be shooting for that, and you might not.
I'll also toss out the idea ... like when some great feats of invention in mind would occur to two or three uninvolved people relatively simultaneously at various places in the world ...?
Was it the same thought all three addressed or "tuned in to"?
Perhaps you also mean instances of drug-induced seemingly telepathic instances?
Or perhaps even disembodied voices, like ones upon our shoulders, and/or ones apparently speaking out of clouds or burning bushes or lizards or penguins, that tell us stuff that, if we were paying better attention and weren't so consciously cluttered, we could have come to as a conclusion anyway?

This occasionally crosses my mind when i get to hear about Britney Spears' latest endeavours ... and then i remember that like minds will attract each other, and some will seek resonance (and even dramatically attempt making a theatre for certain concepts). Eventually, as in my experience, they'll repulse as well.

The media seeks to entertain, and to find whatever gets the most ratings, prompting one to wonder if a publically funded news organization would be better.

But then that runs the possibility of direct government tampering into nothing more than a propaganda machine, as opposed to the current indirect propaganda machine.

We can't win.

Indeed. Furthermore, the media is not one gigantic conglomerate hive-mind(and as such does not have the same goals in mind when it comes to presenting information), and there are sources outside of it to find. Admittedly many of those sources are even lest trustworthy, but they do exist.
This occasionally crosses my mind when i get to hear about Britney Spears' latest endeavours ... and then i remember that like minds will attract each other, and some will seek resonance (and even dramatically attempt making a theatre for certain concepts). Eventually, as in my experience, they'll repulse as well.

i havent slept much either, hence this deep topic that i picked the wrong time of the way to wack up

The first thing I thought about when I read this was, ironically, "thoughts without a thinker". i am torn between two beliefs. i believe that everything we think, feel, experience, etc. is formulated by neural interactions, chemical changes, physical response... but obviously the way those neurons fire and those pathways form depends on the person. i am also deeply fascinated by buddhist ideas about the, to put it awkwardly, unreality of reality, the illusion of separation between life forces, the john donne sort of oneness.

Forgive the gross ineloquence of this, I haven't slept much.

The media seeks to entertain, and to find whatever gets the most ratings, prompting one to wonder if a publically funded news organization would be better.Yup.

But then that runs the possibility of direct government tampering into nothing more than a propaganda machine, as opposed to the current indirect propaganda machine.There's cases of direct government tampering through propaganda machines in this particular administration (exponentially) and ones before it ... Armstrong and FauX "news" for example.

We can't win.It certainly appears so at times. :(
The only winning move ... is not to play.

It certainly appears so at times. :(

You would think the internet would defeat this for good, but sadly, apart from a small few of us, it has not.

i havent slept much either, hence this deep topic that i picked the wrong time of the way to wack up

Try apnea. It's great for this.
I only get three hours a night.

The first thing I thought about when I read this was, ironically, "thoughts without a thinker". i am torn between two beliefs. i believe that everything we think, feel, experience, etc. is formulated by neural interactions, chemical changes, physical response... but obviously the way those neurons fire and those pathways form depends on the person. i am also deeply fascinated by buddhist ideas about the, to put it awkwardly, unreality of reality, the illusion of separation between life forces, the john donne sort of oneness.

Forgive the gross ineloquence of this, I haven't slept much.
Actually, i thought it was alright. :)

Here's something else to consider ... how many of us are actually passively listening to TV in the background while we're doing stuff online/on NSG?
I, myself, have the History Channel on, and they're running a series of episodes about UFO cases.
Perhaps ... just perhaps ... enough of my subconscious will be affected by it as i formulate thoughts for my posts that some kind of amalgamation will make its way into what few dreams i'll have tonight.

Also ... oddly enough, and no joke ... i was thinking about this particular issue a half-hour to 4 minutes before i got on NSG tonight ... first time in a while. Specifically this issue and a loose theory i have that i've been writing about.

I think if you're at your full level of awareness, fully awake it's you that's thinking.
But when you're concentrating on something else e.g. TV or listening to music, you're not really aware of you, kind of like a pit-stop before continuing with your life to the finish line.
So you have different levels of consciousness, ah that reminds me of this book i was reading about consciousness (Consciousness an introduction. Auther: Susan Blackmore), you had to ask such a damn complicated question didn't you?
Normal, Tired, drunk, dehydration, hypothermia, illness can all affect how we recieve information, so our state of self is ever changing.

all of our unified models of mental functioning today are theater metaphors; it is essentially all we have. Baars, 1997a:7

You could argue you aren't really real, just a mix or nerves/neurons/water and dust.
And if you look at people with mulitple personalities, they could arguably have more than one conscious state more than one idea of self, so therefore the idea of self is an illusion designed by your genetic makeup and instincts to stop you going crazy.
But due to the complex nature of our brains as they are the most complex set up of any organic matter in the known universe, i doubt we'll have a suitable answer for you anytime soon.
So conclusion is our idea of self could be an illusion, could be just part of a larger process to make the ultimate answer to life, could be any number of things, we (or certainly I) don't really know.

Thinking? I try to avoid it if at all possible.

I am, therefore I think.

Any creature who can realize his or her own existence can think. Whether their thoughts are worth anything is something else again entirely.

I am, therefore I think.

Any creature who can realize his or her own existence can think. Whether their thoughts are worth anything is something else again entirely.

Ah yes that was by Descartes wasn't it, "I think therefore i am", he revised it later to "I am, I exist". Because you don't necessarily have to think if you do exist at all. Oh that reminds me of some work i have to do.

Ah yes that was by Descartes wasn't it, "I think therefore i am", he revised it later to "I am, I exist". Because you don't necessarily have to think if you do exist at all. Oh that reminds me of some work i have to do.

Curse you, I was going to 'in b4 cogito ergo sum'.

You really stoned or something?

Any creature who can realize his or her own existence can think. Whether their thoughts are worth anything is something else again entirely.
And lo, there be NSG. :eek: