NationStates Jolt Archive

1. What if Leon Trotsky had taken power after the death of Lenin, and kept the NEP?
2 what if after the Sudentenland was annexed by Nazi Germany, the regular military, supported by the SA and the people, rose up and over threw hitler and the SS. http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/germany/naziger3538.gif

Then by the obvious butterfly effect, you wouldn't exist to start this conversation.

A permanent NEP doesn't make sense, and if you know anything about it you wouldn't be asking the question, the NEP was designed by Lenin to simply be a transition from War Communism (resource requisition to win the civil war) to full-scale collectivization, which Stalin implemented in his place. As for Trotsky generally, it's ludicrous to speculate on Trotsky as Secretary General because 'Trotskyism' came about as a reaction to loosing all support with the Bolsheviks and being exposed as the power-hungry individual he was. If Trotsky has stayed a loyal Bolshevik then 'Trotskyism' wouldn't have existed, Trotsky's 'ideology' was simply a whinging rant over being butthurt because he lost, and also because of his personality defects.

A permanent NEP doesn't make sense, and if you know anything about it you wouldn't be asking the question, the NEP was designed by Lenin to simply be a transition from War Communism (resource requisition to win the civil war) to full-scale collectivization, which Stalin implemented in his place. As for Trotsky generally, it's ludicrous to speculate on Trotsky as Secretary General because 'Trotskyism' came about as a reaction to loosing all support with the Bolsheviks and being exposed as the power-hungry individual he was. If Trotsky has stayed a loyal Bolshevik then 'Trotskyism' wouldn't have existed, Trotsky's 'ideology' was simply a whinging rant over being butthurt because he lost, and also because of his personality defects.

Please note that you can safely ignore this Stalinist. He constantly praises every little thing Stalin ever did throughout his reign.

1. You had never bothered posting this pointless thread and
2. I had never bothered reading it?

1. He blown himself because of emotions...

2. The forums continues without problems...
LOL

Take a look on here.

http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/

Please note that you can safely ignore this Stalinist. He constantly praises every little thing Stalin ever did throughout his reign.

Can't a guy have a 100ft bronze statue of Stalin in his front yard and not be called a Stalinist? I am sure it came with the house anyway. :p

Take a look on here.

http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/

Been here 2 and a half years and only 27 posts? You may get the ultimate lurker award.

Can't a guy have a 100ft bronze statue of Stalin in his front yard and not be called a Stalinist? I am sure it came with the house anyway. :p

I don't praise the man, I recognize his contributions to and advanced of Marxism-Leninism, and his work lessening the power of the administrative bureaucracy and empowering the proletarian soviets. I also recognize his role in lessening the role of the party and instead working towards a no-party democratic model. I don't use the term 'Stalinist' because Stalin was essentially advancing Marxism-Leninism.

I don't praise the man, I recognize his contributions to and advanced of Marxism-Leninism, and his work lessening the power of the administrative bureaucracy and empowering the proletarian soviets. I also recognize his role in lessening the role of the party and instead working towards a no-party democratic model. I don't use the term 'Stalinist' because Stalin was essentially advancing Marxism-Leninism.


http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/SuburbaniteHunter/stalinapprovespsc.png



:D

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/SuburbaniteHunter/stalinapprovespsc.png



:D
I see you have many a misconception, I would encourage a read of this well-sourced work if you have the time:
http://clogic.eserver.org/2005/furr.html

Also, a little self-criticism should help.

I see you have many a misconception, I would encourage a read of this well-sourced work if you have the time:
http://clogic.eserver.org/2005/furr.html

Also, a little self-criticism should help.

Just poking fun.

Just poking fun.

Well either way, I feel confident in my position. The last time I made a thread to defend Stalin, I posted sell-sourced claims, detailed arguments backed by historical documents etc, as I remember the thread essay by me took up several pages, yet the only responses it got were ill-conceived jeers and slights with no intelligent responses. It seems regarding comrade Stalin that many people are willing to buy anti-communist conspiracy theories rather than objective fact.

Well either way, I feel confident in my position. The last time I made a thread to defend Stalin, I posted sell-sourced claims, detailed arguments backed by historical documents etc, as I remember the thread essay by me took up several pages, yet the only responses it got were ill-conceived jeers and slights with no intelligent responses. It seems regarding comrade Stalin that many people are willing to buy anti-communist conspiracy theories rather than objective fact.

Stalin wasn't completely bad. As for people poking fun you have to remember history and how the Soviets were portrayed. I don't know your age however the yearly air raid tests, the fact that a nuclear war could happen at any time and military bravado coming from the Soviets gave many people a bad taste in their mouths.

Stalin wasn't completely bad. As for people poking fun you have to remember history and how the Soviets were portrayed. I don't know your age however the yearly air raid tests, the fact that a nuclear war could happen at any time and military bravado coming from the Soviets gave many people a bad taste in their mouths.

Actually it was the revisionists after Stalin who started all that, Stalin was generally pragmatic and practical when it came to foreign relations, and not blinded by the idealism of his successors.

Actually it was the revisionists after Stalin who started all that, Stalin was generally pragmatic and practical when it came to foreign relations, and not blinded by the idealism of his successors.

You are right however what do people think when you say pick a Soviet leader? I believe a good 8/10 or more would say Stalin. When one equates Stalin as the quintessential Soviet leader then most things Soviet good or bad go with it.

Another point I do want to point out is Stalin did have his purges with the addition to the deaths under his leadership. Those things cannot be passed onto other Soviet leaders. Just those things greatly reduce his stature in many peoples eyes. If Stalin didn't do those things I believe he would be viewed in a positive almost heroic way as Churchill and Roosevelt are.

You are right however what do people think when you say pick a Soviet leader? I believe a good 8/10 or more would say Stalin. When one equates Stalin as the quintessential Soviet leader then most things Soviet good or bad go with it.

Another point I do want to point out is Stalin did have his purges with the addition to the deaths under his leadership. Those things cannot be passed onto other Soviet leaders. Just those things greatly reduce his stature in many peoples eyes. If Stalin didn't do those things I believe he would be viewed in a positive almost heroic way as Churchill and Roosevelt are.

Well I do believe that dealing in absolutes is always detrimental to establishing a factual conclusion. The so called purges have as their source a book, Muss Russland hungern? (1936 English title: Human Life in Russia) published In 1935, Dr. Ewald Ammende Its sources: the German Nazi press, the Italian fascist press, the Ukrainian émigré press and `travelers' and `experts', cited with no details. He published photos that he claimed `are among the most important sources for the actual facts of the Russian position'.

In regard to the Ukrainian 'genocide', thousands of Ukrainian Nazi collaborators succeeded in entering the U.S. after the Second World War. During the McCarthy period, they testified as victims of `communist barbary'. They reinvented the famine-genocide myth in a two-volume book, Black Deeds of the Kremlin, published in 1953 and 1955 by the Ukrainian Association of Victims of Russian Communist Terror and the Democratic Organization of Ukrainians Formerly Persecuted by the Soviet Regime in the USA. This book, dear to Robert Conquest, who cites it regularly, contains a glorification of Petliura, responsible for the massacre of tens of thousands of Jews in 1918--1920, as well as a homage to Shukhevych, the fascist commander of the Nazi-organized Nachtigall Battalion and later the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA).

Look Andaras, I'm tired of this rubbish m'kay?

Stalin was EVIL!

The Pope's Chief Exorcist HIMSELF stated that Stalin was possessed by the devil.

HEADLINE: Hitler and Stalin were possessed by the Devil, says Vatican exorcist

Adolf Hitler and Russian leader Stalin were possessed by the Devil, the Vatican's chief exorcist has claimed.

Father Gabriele Amorth who is Pope Benedict XVI's 'caster out of demons' made his comments during an interview with Vatican Radio.

Here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=402602&in_page_id=1770), it's in the Daily Mail.

Of course, next you're going to tell me that the Daily Mail is biased.

:rolleyes:

Who cares if it was a genocide? Either way, Stalin willingly killed millions of innocent people for some reason, and was fully aware of the deaths stemming from his policies. Even if he was making those ridiculous requests for food and stationing armed NKVD units for some other purpose, it doesn't excuse it in the slightest. It was unjust and cruel state-sponsored mass murder of the highest order.

1. What if Leon Trotsky had taken power after the death of Lenin, and kept the NEP?
Trotsky was an advocate of rapid industrial expansion, more specifically the expansion of the socialist sector of the economy at the expense of the market. He envisaged the replacement of the NEP by the planned economy after a period of competition between the two. As such Trotsky was an early proponent of the importance of Gosplan which was one of the contributing factors in his downfall as it disgruntled the likes of Tomsky and Rykov no end.

Basically, it is unlikely in the extreme that NEP would have survived as a viable policy in the long term under a Trotsky-led administration.