NationStates Jolt Archive

I found this article and while it was written before the Florida primary, and before Thompson dropped out, I wanted to post it here. The media's bias was evident in last night's CNN Republican debate between Mitt Romney, John McCain, Mike Huckabee, and Ron Paul. Both Mike Huckabee and ron were discriminated against; neither one got half the airtime as the other two candidates, and CNN has since come underfire for their bias.
Link to article:
http://changeisamustoday.blogspot.com
The article is posted below.
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CHANGE IS A MUST!


Monday, January 21, 2008
THE JIHAD AGAINST HUCKABEE


Ever since Gov. Mike Huckabee’s numbers started climbing in the polls, the media and the Republican establishment have gone all-out to disparage him and derail his campaign. Surprisingly, the Conservative media led by Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham, Mark Levin, Hugh Hewitt, Hannity, Dennis Prager and scores of others has spearheaded the jihad against Huckabee, condemning him as a “pro-life liberal” and a “false conservative” Thanks to their ceaseless anti-Huck campaign, the establishment has successfully brainwashed thousands, if not millions of viewers and listeners….so far (there are still 44 states left). These self-proclaimed torchbearers of Conservatism NEED TO REALISE that they are out of touch with reality, and the base. The SC primary results are a testimony to this. The exit poll data show that voters chose Huckabee over McCain in several categories OUTSIDE OF EVANGELICAL VOTE. Huck took the 18-44 yrs old vote, abortion (keep it illegal always) vote, the tough-on-illegal immigration vote, the republican vote, the conservative vote and the very conservative vote. The real Conservative base has not been fooled! The rest (pseudo-conservatives) have been. Birds of the same feather folk together…and there is no need for the establishment and the media to define and redefine “conservatism” and declare who the true conservative is! The Conservative media shouldn’t live under the illusion that the public is unaware of the link between Romney and Bain Capital and it is obvious that the support of a good chunk of the media would be biased and in favor of Mitt Romney. Also, the fact that the establishment led by the “Club of Greed” is rallying around Thompson, Romney and Giuliani, and giving a second look to McCain is no news to the true Conservatives.

It is painful to see that the only Republican candidate with a chance to defeat the Clinton machinery is being betrayed by the very party that ought to have embraced him. Being elected and re-elected in an overwhelmingly Democrat state run by the Clinton machinery is no joke. Huckabee’s conservatism is similar to Reagan’s- even Reagan raised taxes when circumstances compelled him to do so. The fact that the rank of Arkansas school-education quality went up from near bottom (49th) to the top ten list (rank 8th) during the course of his tenure is just an example of the countless transformations that Huckabee brought about in Arkansas, leaving behind the legend of the visionary and the commander that Huckabee is. Giuliani and Romney will definitely not win the general election (count on the crucial but sizeable chunk of evangelical voters who will prefer to sit home rather than vote for them), and Thompson has slept too much to be a serious contender in the race. McCain, despite all the euphoria of late, cannot win- the very-conservative and the social conservative voters abstaining from voting for him will cross out whatever independent votes he will be getting. Logically, that leaves Huckabee as the only viable candidate, the sole candidate who will be able to bring out everyone of the foot soldiers of the Republican Party (particularly the social conservatives) to vote on the Election Day.

Huckabee represents the new-face of the Conservative movement. This is attested to by the fact that in both Iowa and SC, Huckabee won more than 40% of the young vote. For many youngsters, Huckabee is the only reason for not voting in the Democrat primary this election cycle. It is a national trend that an increasing disproportionate share of the youngsters is voting Democrat- a trend, if not checked, that would have serious repercussions for the Republican Party in the future. Even Conservative youngsters find the Democrats more appealing as they hold common views when it comes to issues like Global poverty, racial reconciliation and the environment. The excitement that has been generated amongst the GOP youngsters this time should be credited mainly to Huckabee. The refusal of the establishment and the media to acknowledge the shift in the priorities of the X and Y GOP generation is suicidal to both the GOP and Conservatism in the long run. History will judge and will be very harsh on all those (particularly Limbaugh & Co and the Club of Greed) who have condemned the efforts of visionaries (like Huckabee) to bridge the gap between older conservatives on the one hand and the younger conservatives on the other. Another dynamic shift in the electoral mood of the country has been the growing disillusionment of the middle class and the already antagonized working class with the GOP. Huckabee is the only GOP candidate who has gained support from them as is evident from the support of various unions towards his candidacy. Besides, Huckabee is the only GOP candidate to have gained support from Afro-Americans as in evident from the more than thirty endorsements including that of Rev. Bill Owens (leader of the Coalition of African American Pastors).

The President has to be the commander-of-chief of the entire nation. The fact that Huckabee has mass appeal cutting across race, ethnicity and classes is testimonial to his popularity, electability and the genuineness of his personality. The Wall Street and the establishment have come up with their own definition of “a true conservative”, and are imposing it on the masses. Sorry, I am not deceived! And neither will my fellow countrymen be. A person may be fooled initially, but not for long. Another Huckaboom is in the offing! Remember that Huckabee’s support is grassroot. He's been almost broke from the beginning, thanks to the war waged on him by the establishment with the media playing the role of the latter's cheer leaders. But he has been able to endure this far due to the support of the common man. The presidential race is like a marathon. Huckabee might have won and lost some early battles, but this has only inspired the people from the main street to work harder towards electing a man of their own so that Washington no longer remains the exclusive hub of the Wall Street.

The war ain't over, 'til it's over. On to Florida!

Posted by CHANGE IS A MUST! at 8:24 PM

Yup, on to Florida, where he came 4th.

The Baptist preacher and ex-Arkansas governor signed a full-page ad in USA Today in 1998 with 129 other evangelical leaders. His wife, Janet, also endorsed it.

"A wife is to submit graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ," the Southern Baptist Convention says in its statement of faith.

Yet I wonder if you're really motivated by this quote:

Huckabee on Sunday said he stood by another 1998 comment in which he said, "I hope we answer the alarm clock and take this nation back for Christ."

This is all disregarding his views on AIDS, the age of the earth and more...

By most definitions, aside from ultra-religious, the man is clinically insane.

Ask LG, humour is the first step to insanity.

Link-a-dink (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003690055)

Speaking of the immigration issue, I had an idea yesterday about how we can stop all immigration, because we all know them immigrants is hear just to take jobs from good, honest (white) real Americans.

I say we stop being so damned wealthy. I say every american takes all of their money out of their accounts and burn it. Everyone live in sheds and beg for food. Then no immigrants would come and take our jobs.

Hah, the pundits are attacking the biggest crackpot conservative in the campaign? The winnar is the Democrats.

Huckabee on Sunday said he stood by another 1998 comment....Well if you want a candidate that keeps flip-flopping like a carp on a boat deck, you can always vote for you-know-who ;)

VIDEO links
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=romney+flip

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9628/flipfloplr4.jpg

Not to bang on but...

I'd also very much like to question this article - it seems to be on a blog that has one entry, this one. There's no related information on that blog at all, from profile to anything whatsoever.

Then I see it's been Digged by someone (http://digg.com/users/Jodale) who's seemingly linked to the Huckabee campaign, to the point of having Huckabee himself on his own blog.

So it makes me wonder whether this is an effort to spread the article around the Internet despite the fact that it's merely an opinion piece by an uncredited writer by Team Huckabee themselves.

Doesn't seem very honest to me.

Not to bang on but...

I'd also very much like to question this article - it seems to be on a blog that has one entry, this one. There's no related information on that blog at all, from profile to anything whatsoever.

Then I see it's been Digged by someone (http://digg.com/users/Jodale) who's seemingly linked to the Huckabee campaign, to the point of having Huckabee himself on his own blog.

So it makes me wonder whether this is an effort to spread the article around the Internet despite the fact that it's merely an opinion piece by an uncredited writer by Team Huckabee themselves.

Doesn't seem very honest to me.I dont know about his sources, but

I posted at least 2 threads -with known sources- where the issue was the Republican elite (and the Republican establishment) being very much against Huckleberry.

I dont know about his sources, but

I posted at least 2 threads -with known sources- where the issue was the Republican elite (and the Republican establishment) being very much against Huckleberry.

Yeah, either I read those or I read a similar article in a paper - I've no doubt that R's seem against Chucklebee, nor that those eminent moral leaders such as Limbaugh are against him either - to my mind more evidence that they're machine puppies only - I'm simply against a puff piece being presented as anything other; as well as an overall anti-Chucklebee sentiment anyway.

The guy's certainly funny, though in the way the Joker was funny, you laugh but from a distance in the knowledge he's insane.

I'm hoping that after he drops out of the GOP race, Huckleberry tries to run a 3rd Party campaign and splits the Republican vote.

I'm hoping that after he drops out of the GOP race, Huckleberry tries to run a 3rd Party campaign and splits the Republican vote.The media keps talking like if this was a 1v1

but the national polls have Huck and Romney tied at 18%. Why should he drop if he is tied for second?
http://www.pollster.com/USTopzReps600.png

I'm hoping that after he drops out of the GOP race, Huckleberry tries to run a 3rd Party campaign and splits the Republican vote.

Except his views are almost completely align with the republican fanbase.

Ron Paul is more likely to run a 3rd party.

The media keps talking like if this was a 1v1

but the national polls have Huck and Romney tied at 18%. Why should he drop if he is tied for second?
http://www.pollster.com/USTopzReps600.png

Because no one else apart from his current base of lunatics will vote for him?

Although more horrendous things have happened...

Except his views are almost completely align with the republican fanbase.

Ron Paul is more likely to run a 3rd party.

It really looks like it'll be McCain for the GOP. I'd rather it were going to be someone more beatable.

It really looks like it'll be McCain for the GOP. I'd rather it were going to be someone more beatable.

I'm sorry to pick you out seemingly at random, but...


Does it seem to anyone else that through the primaries people have been assuming whoever won the latest one is the presumed nominee?

Huckabee wins a primary, "Looks like Huckabee is going to be the nominee." Romney wins one, "Looks like Romney's going to be the nominee"...

You know there are, like, 50 states, right? And that only a very small fraction of them have voted?

I'm sorry to pick you out seemingly at random, but...


Does it seem to anyone else that through the primaries people have been assuming whoever won the latest one is the presumed nominee?

Huckabee wins a primary, "Looks like Huckabee is going to be the nominee." Romney wins one, "Looks like Romney's going to be the nominee"...

You know there are, like, 50 states, right? And that only a very small fraction of them have voted?

Media does not understand super tuesday.

They only understand Iowa and New Hampshire.

I'm sorry, but if my choices are between a conservative hack, a Christian fascist, and a flip-flopping knee jerk reactionary, forgive me if I don't really see much qualitative difference between who wins.

Well if you want a candidate that keeps flip-flopping like a carp on a boat deck, you can always vote for you-know-who ;)

VIDEO links
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=romney+flip

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9628/flipfloplr4.jpg

To be honest, I don't really get the flip-flop slur - it seems to be highly negative when it sticks despite having little relevance.

Nearly all politicians break promises, I'd almost be suspicious of a president who was so adamant in their opinion that they never changed it - alas, politicians have to promise things they know they can't keep because everyone does it - it's a political prisoner's dilemma.

Here's a list of things Bush promised in the 2000 elections and then, well I don't know if it's flip-flopping as much as completely lying.

List (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6684.htm)

How he had the temerity to come up with the flip-flop slur is beyond me but it now seems to be used by every candidate against every other candidate these days. Even Obama used it against Clinton in the California debate just now over immigration.

It just seems a successful staple of political diatribe these days and it really means very little when you look at it.

I found the link somewhere else, read it, liked it and reposted it. Don't know much about the blog, although I did notice this was the only post. But I figured the writer might just be getting started. I don't think the Huckabee campaign has anything to do with this.

Mike Huckabee has held a consistent stance on the issues he believes in, and while I know he doesn't look like a very viable candidate to those outside the Christian sphere, he has said that he will not push his religious views on anyone. And you have to admit, his plan for the fair tax would really be beneficial for America. Everyone would be able to keep all of their paychecks every week, and no more income taxes!

And Lol about the huckleberry part. Every time I say "Huckabee" a poll from here comes to mind where his name was spelled "Hucklebee".

Yup, on to Florida, where he came 4th.



Yet I wonder if you're really motivated by this quote:



This is all disregarding his views on AIDS, the age of the earth and more...

By most definitions, aside from ultra-religious, the man is clinically insane.

Ask LG, humour is the first step to insanity.

Link-a-dink (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003690055)




I just wanted to point out that things like age of the earth may just not effect his taxation policy, I mean, c'mon.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=n-BFEhkIujA

But, let's be serious. He has the best endorsement of the campaign.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MDUQW8LUMs8&feature=related

He has an excellent sense of humour as well as being a fiscal conservative.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nm1ARFKWdow

And though I can't find it, there is also the response to the submit to your husband questions, which his wife, of her own free will signed. This is his personal religion. I don't see how the relationship with his wife is any business of the people. At least he is sleeping with her and not someone else...

I'm sorry to pick you out seemingly at random, but...


Does it seem to anyone else that through the primaries people have been assuming whoever won the latest one is the presumed nominee?

Huckabee wins a primary, "Looks like Huckabee is going to be the nominee." Romney wins one, "Looks like Romney's going to be the nominee"...

You know there are, like, 50 states, right? And that only a very small fraction of them have voted?

McCain has (a few) more delegates, and is leading polls in most "Super Tuesday" states.

Huck on Leno:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OO-_TFLalGQ

Ask LG, humour is the first step to insanity.


There are many roads to insanity. Some are more fun than others. *nod*

To be honest, I don't really get the flip-flop slur - it seems to be highly negative when it sticks despite having little relevance.

Nearly all politicians break promises, I'd almost be suspicious of a president who was so adamant in their opinion that they never changed it - alas, politicians have to promise things they know they can't keep because everyone does it - it's a political prisoner's dilemma.

Here's a list of things Bush promised in the 2000 elections and then, well I don't know if it's flip-flopping as much as completely lying.

List (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6684.htm)

How he had the temerity to come up with the flip-flop slur is beyond me but it now seems to be used by every candidate against every other candidate these days. Even Obama used it against Clinton in the California debate just now over immigration.

It just seems a successful staple of political diatribe these days and it really means very little when you look at it.

With the possible exception of our beloved Commander-in-Chimp (who will stick to a decided course of action, no matter how unworkable), every politician has "flip-flopped" on one topic or another at some point. It's a meaningless term.

Huck on Leno:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OO-_TFLalGQ

Nixon on "Laugh-In".

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1ItU6tkdF2A



What's your point?

"Submit to your husband" doesn't mean what some people might think it means. It also says to "submit to your wife". Controlling one another has absolutely nothing to do with it. It means that they are bound together, that they should support one another, to be united, not divided.

"Submit to your husband" doesn't mean what some people might think it means. It also says to "submit to your wife". Controlling one another has absolutely nothing to do with it. It means that they are bound together, that they should support one another, to be united, not divided.

Here's the full text of that ad:

"You are right because you recognized that the family was God's idea, not man's, and that marriage is a covenant between one man and one woman for a lifetime.
"You are right because you called husbands to sacrificially love and lead their wives.
"You are right because you called wives to graciously submit to their husband's sacrificial leadership.
"You are right because you affirmed that the husband and wife are of equal worth before God.
"You are right because you reminded us that children are a blessing and heritage from the Lord.
"More importantly, you are right because your statement is based on biblical truth."

Now I'm not calling myself a biblical scholar in anyway but the emphasis on that ad is for the husband to lead and the wife to follow.

Mike Huckabee says his religion will not impact on his presidency but I cannot possibly see how he would extricate his religious views from his political decisions - I can't prove it and I doubt I ever will because I doubt he'll be nominated let alone win.

I found the link somewhere else, read it, liked it and reposted it. Don't know much about the blog, although I did notice this was the only post. But I figured the writer might just be getting started. I don't think the Huckabee campaign has anything to do with this.

To be honest, I don't doubt your word how you posted it, I do doubt that it has nothing to do with the Huckabee campaign, it's too crafted.

Quinntonian Dra-pol - I just wanted to point out that things like age of the earth may just not effect his taxation policy, I mean, c'mon.

Thanks for pointing that out, with him I thought it just might.

McCain has (a few) more delegates, and is leading polls in most "Super Tuesday" states.

Yeah, yeah...it's still the same old tune.

It still sounds to me like calling the race after the first lap.

To be honest, I don't really get the flip-flop slur - it seems to be highly negative when it sticks despite having little relevance.

Nearly all politicians break promises, I'd almost be suspicious of a president who was so adamant in their opinion that they never changed it - alas, politicians have to promise things they know they can't keep because everyone does it - it's a political prisoner's dilemma.

Here's a list of things Bush promised in the 2000 elections and then, well I don't know if it's flip-flopping as much as completely lying.

List (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6684.htm)

How he had the temerity to come up with the flip-flop slur is beyond me but it now seems to be used by every candidate against every other candidate these days. Even Obama used it against Clinton in the California debate just now over immigration.

It just seems a successful staple of political diatribe these days and it really means very little when you look at it.

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

I'm suspicious of people who don't change there mind now and then. It means they stopped thinking.

Huck on Leno:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OO-_TFLalGQnice,

this one at Dave Letterman's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlyu8dO3yQk

Top Ten Reasons Mike Huckabee may win the Rep. Nomination :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC7sLrlEk-E&feature=related

Mike Huckabee.... .....has said that he will not push his religious views on anyone.

Huckabee on his website:

My faith is my life - it defines me. My faith doesn't influence my decisions, it drives them. For example, when it comes to the environment, I believe in being a good steward of the earth. I don't separate my faith from my personal and professional lives.

If you don't think his 'personal religion' is going to affect millions based on a decision-making process driven by faith then...I don't really know actually.

His personal religion? My ass his personal religion.

And though I can't find it, there is also the response to the submit to your husband questions, which his wife, of her own free will signed. This is his personal religion. I don't see how the relationship with his wife is any business of the people. At least he is sleeping with her and not someone else...

On his very own site he has an entire section devoted to Marriage.

Huckabee and Marriage (http://www.mikehuckabee.com/?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=10) - again from his website

Are you seriously telling me not to comment on his attitude towards relationships when he's adamantly not just going to comment but actually pass laws that infringe on everyone else's?

Here's something interesting about Mitt from blogger.

Romney Media Control

Fox News is responsible for information programming on more than 100 Clear Channel news and talk stations.
Clear Channel is owned by Bain Capital Partners and Thomas Lee Partners plus other minors.
Clear Channel has Sean Hannity under contract until 2010. Clear Channel also has Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck under contract.
Bain Capital was started by Romney in 1984. He sold his majority stake in Bain to run for Governor in 2001.
Commonwealth PAC was set up by Romney Advisers. A Boston Globe analysis found that executives from a handful of Massachusetts-based corporations, including Bain Capital, Fidelity Investments, etc, form the base of the Romney operation.


Mitt Romney=>Bain Capital=>Clear Channel=>Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, FOX News
http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/125/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/16/AR2006111600537.html
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-25455472_ITM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298999,00.html http://www.clearchannel.com/Radio/PressRelease.aspx?PressReleaseID=2069&KeyWord=Glenn+Beck
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2006/09/25/daily31.html?from_rss=1
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/09/arts/television/09fox.html

Mitt Romney=>Bain Capital=>Commonwealth PAC=>Mitt Romney Campaign (Note Romney sold his majority stake in Bain in 2001 prior to Gubernatorial Bid)
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/07/29/romney_rebounds_to_lead_in_nh/
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/02/13/romney_campaign_coffers_growing/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/3/191527/4624

It's admirable that Mike Huckabee has a set of values and principles that govern his life. At least he knows what he believes and is sure-footed. There are those in the race for the White House that are not nearly as grounded. Some people have compared Mike Huckabee to Ronald Reagan, and say he would be a fantastic president because of his experience and virtues.

It's admirable that Mike Huckabee has a set of values and principles that govern his life. At least he knows what he believes and is sure-footed. There are those in the race for the White House that are not nearly as grounded. Some people have compared Mike Huckabee to Ronald Reagan, and say he would be a fantastic president because of his experience and virtues.

In no way am I going to convince you that Mike Huckabee is a nightmare to contemplate.

I could tell you that he, of all the candidates, is most likely to put real effort into overturning Roe vs Wade - but that would simply confirm your regard for him.

I'd like to point out that the general distaste for Romney among Huckabee supporters is solely borne out of church rivalry, rather than policies.

You should think about that, you'd rather vote for McCain, who has called your people 'agents of intolerance' than Romney, whose only difference is his church.

Does it make any difference to your vote.

Nope.

:(

It's admirable that Mike Huckabee has a set of values and principles that govern his life. At least he knows what he believes and is sure-footed. There are those in the race for the White House that are not nearly as grounded. Some people have compared Mike Huckabee to Ronald Reagan, and say he would be a fantastic president because of his experience and virtues.I like Huckleberry,

#1 I think he is honest.
#2 I think he is a man of principle.
#3 I think he is very intelligent.
#4 and.. I also like him because the Wall street Corporative Lobbyists dont like him. ;)

Most GOP candidates are lacking on the first 2. (except Ron Paul)

But that kind of post is not helping your cause.

let me show you

Mike Huckabee has a set of values and principles that govern his life. At least he knows what he believes and is sure-footed. There are those in the race for the White House that are not nearly as grounded.so far so good.
.
Some people have compared Mike Huckabee to Ronald Reagan, and say he would be a fantastic president because of his experience and virtues.this part of your post, this is not for NSG, trust me.

maybe you can use that hyperbole in some MickeyMouse forums, but you should not try that here.

Mike Huckabee scares me.


That is all.

I hope that Huckabee doesn't get elected. The man is a baptist preacher, and I doubt that he is capable of separating his religious beliefs from his politics. With your economy on the verge of collapse and the environment on the brink of destruction, I cannot trust a man who believes that some god or something will come and save your nation.
The US is the most powerful nation on the planet right now, and it can exert tremendous influence on the rest of the world. I think a wise and well-spoken leader is needed.


On top of it all, Huckabee is a friggin' idiot. Let me quote him here: "Congratulations Canada on preserving your National Igloo".

WTF? Does this man know a THING about the nation to the north?!

Speaking of the immigration issue, I had an idea yesterday about how we can stop all immigration, because we all know them immigrants is hear just to take jobs from good, honest (white) real Americans.

I say we stop being so damned wealthy. I say every american takes all of their money out of their accounts and burn it. Everyone live in sheds and beg for food. Then no immigrants would come and take our jobs.incidentally (I live in arkansas) huckabee is one of the most liberal candidates on immigration there is. he's been criticized for providing them with welfare and large scholarships to arkansas schools, regardless of their legal status as immigrants. I'm not sure if it's only an arkansas thing or not, but we're not even allowed to ask if our international students have visas or not when we help them enroll at my university. it's a shame - he's by far the closest I've heard (besides kucinich I think) to my views on immigration. of course, everything else he believes is absolutely ridiculous, and as a gay guy I'm none too thrilled with what he let happen in arkansas in that respect...still, providing generous funding for education and healthcare for illegal immigrants is a very positive thing in my book. it doesn't outweigh the rest of his idiotic policies, but it's worth noting.

incidentally (I live in arkansas) huckabee is one of the most liberal candidates on immigration there is. he's been criticized for providing them with welfare and large scholarships to arkansas schools, regardless of their legal status as immigrants. I'm not sure if it's only an arkansas thing or not, but we're not even allowed to ask if our international students have visas or not when we help them enroll at my university. it's a shame - he's by far the closest I've heard (besides kucinich I think) to my views on immigration. of course, everything else he believes is absolutely ridiculous, and as a gay guy I'm none too thrilled with what he let happen in arkansas in that respect...still, providing generous funding for education and healthcare for illegal immigrants is a very positive thing in my book. it doesn't outweigh the rest of his idiotic policies, but it's worth noting.Wait, what. You're gay, you're living in Arkansas, and you've not been sent to a deathcamp under Huckabee's rule?

Next thing, you may even be suggesting that a President's powers are limited by the constitution or that a supreme court even exists! Almost as if means to prevent a President from just doing what he wants are available!

Madness! Madness I say!

Wait, what. You're gay, you're living in Arkansas, and you've not been sent to a deathcamp under Huckabee's rule?

Next thing, you may even be suggesting that a President's powers are limited by the constitution or that a supreme court even exists! Almost as if means to prevent a President from just doing what he wants are available!

Madness! Madness I say!

Yeah, they've done a bang up job of keeping Bush in check...




...wait...

I am not saying that Huckabee's religion would not effect his Presdiency. I think that they would. Personally, I don't trust anyone who pays lip service to his faith for votes an then leads in a way completely contrary to what he purports to believe. What I am saying is that first of all, old Huck seems to be, from both the point of view of his time in Arkansas and in the way he has led his life/campaign, a man of no little integrity.

What I am saying is that believing that the Earth was 6,000 years old, or 8 billion, or the idea that his wife and he make their faith the centre of their life in a way that you don't understand, or things of tha nature simply will not effect your life. I mean, if he was Muslim and his wife wore a hijab, would that mean that he was an evil overlord bent on taking over the world? Haven't leaders like Bhutto in Pakistan shown that one's personal views on the role of women inside the home do not mean that they are going to impose Taliban-like restrictions in place.

I really liked Romney at the beginning of this campaign, based solely on his record as a fiscal conservative, and to a quite a bit lessser extent as a social coservative. But the way he has handled his campaign has just been ugly, and I get nervous when someone seems to be willing to do anything, include through his/her integrity out the window, in order to win. (Clinton bothers me for some of the same reasons) I don't care whether he is a Mormon and Huck is a Baptists and McCain is a Baptist who was former Episcopalian. I mean, I could care less, as long as he stands for the same conservative values that I want to see from a leader.

I agree that what I want is a wise leader, but I can no more disclude someone from being designated wise by looking at his faith, especially when it is intelligently spoken about, than I can disclude someone for not having that faith.


Just my two cents.

I would rather be ruled by a smart Turk than a dumb Christian
-Martin Luther, 16th Century

Ronald Reagan was a contemptible maggot, an odious troglodyte not fit to lick the filth off my farming boots. He was at least a million times worse than Bush. At least.

I think Christopher Hitchens articulated (http://www.slate.com/id/2101842/) the reasons for my hatred for him better than I ever could. I can't right now because thinking of the smug expression on his face makes my blood boil.

There are many roads to insanity. Some are more fun than others. *nod*

sig worthy :p*nods*

#1 I think he is honest.
#2 I think he is a man of principle.
#3 I think he is very intelligent.
#4 and.. I also like him because the Wall street Corporative Lobbyists dont like him. ;)

Most GOP candidates are lacking on the first 2. (except Ron Paul)

Ron Paul is the least honest of the Republicans. The whole business about the newsletters that he "didn't notice" for a decade has ended any credibility he might have had.

I like Huckleberry,

#1 I think he is honest.
#2 I think he is a man of principle.
#3 I think he is very intelligent.
#4 and.. I also like him because the Wall street Corporative Lobbyists dont like him. ;)


One cannont be intellegent while believing the earth is 6000 years old and evolution is false.

One cannont be intellegent while believing the earth is 6000 years old and evolution is false.religion/faith and intelligence are 2 separate issues.

find the error in the following statements: "Jews are all geniuses" or "Jews are all morons" "the day you are baptized Catholic your IQ magically goes up 50 points" "the day you convert to Buddhism your IQ magically goes down 30 points"

religion/faith and intelligence are 2 separate issues.

find the error in the following statements: "Jews are all geniuses" or "Jews are all morons" "the day you are baptized Catholic your IQ magically goes up 50 points" "the day you convert to Buddhism your IQ magically goes down 30 points"


Refusing to believe scientific evidence shows either ignorance or stupidity.

Refusing to believe scientific evidence shows either ignorance or stupidity.are you saying all US presidents are stupid?

are you saying all US presidents are stupid?



Any US president that believed the earth was 6000 year old and that evolution was false when facts backing it up were readily available, was stupid.

Refusing to believe scientific evidence shows either ignorance or stupidity.Are you saying Barack Obama is ignorant and stupid?

Are you saying Barack Obama is ignorant and stupid?



Show me proof that obama thinks the US is 6000 years old and denys evolution and yes I think he is.


Note that being a Christian alone does not equate as proof. Huckabee as flat out said he believes those things.

Refusing to believe scientific evidence shows either ignorance or stupidity.Note that being a Christian alone does not equate as proof. yes it does.
To be a Christian you need to -at one point or another- ignore scientific evidence.

yes it does.



There are plenty of Christians who accept the sceintific proof of evolution and how old the earth is and in turn ignore those parts of the bible or view them as symbolic or simply myths.

So know it doesnt. We all know plenty of christians who fit the above mentioned criteria.

Also, there is no scientific evidence that there isnt a God or that Jesus was divine (Im an atheist so no one argue with me about Jesus please), just like there is no proof their is a God or was a Jesus, so its all now a matter of faith.

See the difference, one is faith without denying proof. One is faith that is denying proof.

Nice try.

so its all now a matter of faith.if its a matter of faith for Obama/Clinton/Romney/MacRambo its also a matter of faith for Huck.
You can try to apply your silly rules to one candidate and not to the others, but I reserve my right to intervention. (and I probably will)
.
Im an atheist so no one argue with me about Jesus please...you really think I am going to back down from a good fight, apparently you don't know me.

Allow me to introduce myself, my name is OceanDrive AKA ##, I am nor easy ;).
And welcome to NSG.

if its a matter of faith for Obama/Clinton/Romney/MacRambo its also a matter of faith for Huck. You can try to apply your silly rules to one candidate and not to the others, but I reserve my right to intervention.

Im not. In one circumstance there is a denial of scientific evidence. In another there is no evidence to deny.


Huckster denies evidence. Christians who believe christ was the son of God defy logic, not evidence.

If Obama came out and said the earth is only 6000 years old and evolution was a load of crap Id call him an ignorant fool as well.

If Obama came out and said ..I dont care if you heard Obama say "Jesus walked in water", I dont care if you heard Obama say "Jesus raised from his tomb and did fly to the skies"

Obama/Clit/MacRambo are all Christians and thats all I need to know.

if its a matter of faith for Obama/Clinton/Romney/MacRambo its also a matter of faith for Huck.
Whoa, whoa, who said it was a matter of faith for Clinton? She has gone on recordaffirming evolution (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/05/us/politics/05clinton.html). Besides, Huckabee has gone on record denying evolution, while the others haven't, so stop playing that card, if you please.

I dont care if you heard Obama say "Jesus walked in water", I dont care if you heard Obama say "Jesus raised from his tomb and did fly to the skies"

Obama/Clit/MacRambo are all Christians and thats all I need to know.



Thats a matter of your opinion. You can claim that Christians are inherantly stupid. I believe that only certian Christians are f*cking morons. Thats fine. You generalize, I wont.


Then agian, you are the one who initially said Hucknorris was intellegent. So, now you seem to be chaging your standard.

Thats a matter of your opinion. You can claim that Christians are inherantly stupid. I am NOT claiming that, you are.
Refusing to believe scientific evidence shows either ignorance or stupidity.

Being a Christian doesnt not mean you inhernatly deny scientific evidence.


Your infering things that, well, are not there to infer. I never said Christians were inherantly dumb. I said denying scientific evidence like the theory of evolution or the age of the earth is dumb.


Just becaue your a Christian doesnt mean you deny those things. There are many Christians who accept those things.

Your infering things that, well, are not there to infer.You are entitled to your opinion :cool:
.
I never said they were inherantly dumb. I said denying scientific evidence like ...like when you convert water into wine? ;)

You are entitled to your opinion :cool:
.
like when you convert water into wine? ;)

Well, despite that that could be symbolic...

Refusing to believe scientific evidence shows either ignorance or stupidity.like i said:

religion and intelligence are 2 separate issues.

find the error in the following statements: "Jews are all geniuses" or "Jews are all morons" "the day you are baptized Catholic your IQ magically goes up 50 points" "the day you convert to Buddhism your IQ magically goes down 30 points"

Well, despite that that could be symbolic...I have a long list of non-scientific events for all and every Religion.
You cant hope to call them all coincidence/symbolic and keep your credibility intact.

I dont care how you measure the US candidates, as long as you measure them all with the same stick.
I am logging off now.

like i said:

religion and intelligence are 2 separate issues.

find the error in the following statements: "Jews are all geniuses" or "Jews are all morons" "the day you are baptized Catholic your IQ magically goes up 50 points" "the day you convert to Buddhism your IQ magically goes down 30 points"

Not to butt in, but they're all absolutes, with no evidence of them presented to support them, and are probably events that simply don't happen.

The fault also lies in believing re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-reinterpreted, retranslated paper (if that) that could have gone through hundreds of revisions to make it support whoever's agenda as opposed to solid, scientific fact.

Not to butt in, but they're all absolutes, with no evidence of them presented to support them, and are probably events that simply don't happen.

The fault also lies in believing re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-reinterpreted, retranslated paper (if that) that could have gone through hundreds of revisions to make it support whoever's agenda as opposed to solid, scientific fact.-in a way- I agree.

Karmas a bitch huh? Media bias is old news to Ron Paul and his supporters.. It was no big deal to Huckabee when our nominee was ignored. Now that he's off the the TV perhaps he will have to attract his supporters on his own merits/record. :) Good luck on that one..

Ronald Reagan was a contemptible maggot, an odious troglodyte not fit to lick the filth off my farming boots. He was at least a million times worse than Bush. At least.

I think Christopher Hitchens articulated (http://www.slate.com/id/2101842/) the reasons for my hatred for him better than I ever could. I can't right now because thinking of the smug expression on his face makes my blood boil.

i just read the article.

wow. i just think that reagan should have been tried for treason and put in prison until the end of his life.

hitchens really hated him.

By definition is being a 'person of faith' is someone who believes something without evidence, does anyone seriously want to carry that mantle?

Not believing in scientific evidence is a stupid act, but one stupid belief does not an idiot make, especially as the vast majority of people, religious or not, will have other equally stupid beliefs (well, the vast majority of people are idiots, but you know what I mean). Now, if it's to the degree of believing the earth is 6,000 years old, on the other hand...

A lot of our early Presidents were Christians, and even though they believed in God they still made excellent Presidents. Why the dislike for Mike Huckabee? I know not everyone shares his views on matters of faith, but he has great polocies, wants to see positive change in America, and he's willing to fight for it.

A lot of our early Presidents were Christians, and even though they believed in God they still made excellent Presidents. Why the dislike for Mike Huckabee? I know not everyone shares his views on matters of faith, but he has great polocies, wants to see positive change in America, and he's willing to fight for it.
Did any of those Christian Presidents in the past want to rewrite the constitution so it resembled OT Abrahamic law?
Something tells me Huckleberry would be better suited to an office in Tehran than Washington.

Mike Huckabee. Sure one of our freedoms is anyone can run for president, but really intelligence should be a requirement somehow.

i just read the article.

wow. i just think that reagan should have been tried for treason and put in prison until the end of his life.

hitchens really hated him.

Is there anyone Christopher Hitchens doesn't hate? Thomas Paine, I guess, but he's been dead for two hundred years. Everyone more recent seems to meet his contempt.

EDIT: I just read the article. I admire nothing about Ronald Reagan, but I don't really understand the point of the piece. It seems to consist of the author shouting at a president he didn't like. Reagan's words, not his policies, are attacked, and while Hitchens effectively shows that Reagan wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, he doesn't show why he was a disaster as a president.
I don't understand why I dislike this article so much. It's weird, but I really dislike it.

Is there anyone Christopher Hitchens doesn't hate? Thomas Paine, I guess, but he's been dead for two hundred years. Everyone more recent seems to meet his contempt.

EDIT: I just read the article. I admire nothing about Ronald Reagan, but I don't really understand the point of the piece. It seems to consist of the author shouting at a president he didn't like. Reagan's words, not his policies, are attacked, and while Hitchens effectively shows that Reagan wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, he doesn't show why he was a disaster as a president.
I don't understand why I dislike this article so much. It's weird, but I really dislike it.

you probably dislike it because its viscious. reagan died june 5, 2004 and this was posted on june 7, 2004.

A lot of our early Presidents were Christians, and even though they believed in God they still made excellent Presidents. Why the dislike for Mike Huckabee? I know not everyone shares his views on matters of faith, but he has great polocies, wants to see positive change in America, and he's willing to fight for it.He does? :confused:

Everyone has a different opinion. :) Here's something from his website:

ACCOMPLISHMENTS
1. With ten-and-a-half years of experience running state government, Governor Mike Huckabee of Arkansas has more relevant executive experience than any candidate in the race – either Republican or Democrat.

2. Recognized and tapped by his peers for leadership, the National Governor’s Association selected Governor Huckabee as it’s Chairman.

3. TIME Magazine honored him as one of the five best Governors in America.

4. Governor Huckabee is a fiscal conservative who cut taxes almost 100 times in the state of Arkansas, including the state’s first broad-based tax cuts, and turned a $200 million deficit into an $850 million surplus.

ISSUES
1. TAXES/ECONOMY –Governor Huckabee supports The FairTax because it will restore the “Made in America” label, making American goods 12-25% more competitive, boosting economic growth, increasing our exports, and securing American jobs. It also prevents criminals or illegal aliens from avoiding taxes, and makes the taxes we all pay 100% transparent.

2. GOVERNMENT SPENDING – Governor Huckabee is committed to reducing government spending. One way he’ll do this is by reducing the cost of welfare. Governor Huckabee will work with states to reduce welfare roles through programs like the one he implemented in Arkansas, which reduced welfare roles by 50%.

3. HEALTH CARE –Governor Huckabee will implement a consumer-based healthcare system that emphasizes preventative medicine and wellness. Because 70% of our $2 trillion dollar healthcare costs is spent treating chronic, preventable diseases, this approach will make healthcare more affordable for everybody while keeping us healthier.

4. FAMILY VALUES –Governor Huckabee supports a federal constitutional amendment to protect the right to life. He Successfully fought for Arknasas’ marriage amendment and strongly supports a similar, federal constitutional amendment defining marriage as a union between one man and one woman.

5. IMMIGRATION –Governor Huckabee will secure the border (with physical barriers, electronic surveillance, and more border-patrol personnel and detention facilities). He will also end sanctuary cities and increase penalties on, and enforcement against, employers who hire illegal immigrants. Governor Huckabee will make sure the border patrol has adequate funding to end our “catch and release” system so that everyone caught trying to enter illegally, overstaying their visa, or committing a crime will be held until they’re tried, convicted, and deported. Gov. Huckabee has also signed the Numbers USA "No Amnesty" Pledge.

6. WAR ON TERROR AND IRAQ – Governor Huckabee knows it takes a large, well-equipped military to ensure our national defense and to deter conventional military confrontations. He also knows we need large, well-equipped intelligence and Special Forces operations for our national offense – so we can effectively find and eliminate terrorist threats at home or abroad. Governor Huckabee will be a Commander in Chief who knows that IF WE HAVE TO FIGHT A WAR, our President has to fight it the way our GENERALS tell him it can be won, not the way we want it to be won.

7. ENERGY INDEPENDENCE –Governor Huckabee will implement a program to end the import of foreign oil in the next ten years by increasing domestic oil production in the short term, and then replacing oil-based energy infrastructure with alternative and renewable energies.

8. CLEMENCIES – Arkansas Governors grant clemency, but the parole board grants parole. Wayne DuMond’s parole was granted by the board and NOT Governor Huckabee.

9. TAXES –When Governor Huckabee left office, the tax rates remained exactly the same as when he first came into office. Governor Huckabee returned almost $400 million to Arkansas taxpayers, and he also DOUBLED the standard deduction for individuals and married couples, DOUBLED the childcare tax credit, and eliminated the marriage penalty. He also repealed capital gains taxes for home sales, lowered the capital gains rate by 25%, expanded the homestead exemption, and set up tax-free savings accounts for medical care and college tuition. Gov. Huckabee has also signed the Americans for Tax Reform's pledge not to raise taxes.

10. SECOND AMENDMENT-
• Lifetime member of the NRA, member for over 15 years
• First Governor to have concealed-carry permit
• Removed restrictions on carry permit holders
• Protected gun manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits
• Opposes reauthorization of the Assault Weapon Ban
• Opposes expansion of the unconstitutional “Brady Bill”
• Opposes waiting period for purchase of firearms
• Opposes background checks on private firearms transactions at gun shows
• Will nominate judges who interpret the constitution as the Founders intended, rather than as a “living document reflecting current political trends or opinions”
• An avid hunter and conservationist, and a member of the Ducks Unlimited, National Wild Turkey Federation and BASS.

Reference link:
http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=Blogs.View&Blog_id=1332

The Fair Tax is quite possibly the single stupidest thing one could do, taxwise. When you get economists to agree that it'd fuck up the economy, you know that it's bad.

Everyone has a different opinion. :) Here's something from his website:

ACCOMPLISHMENTS
1. With ten-and-a-half years of experience running state government, Governor Mike Huckabee of Arkansas has more relevant executive experience than any candidate in the race – either Republican or Democrat.

2. Recognized and tapped by his peers for leadership, the National Governor’s Association selected Governor Huckabee as it’s Chairman.

3. TIME Magazine honored him as one of the five best Governors in America.

4. Governor Huckabee is a fiscal conservative who cut taxes almost 100 times in the state of Arkansas, including the state’s first broad-based tax cuts, and turned a $200 million deficit into an $850 million surplus. The last thing is propably the only thing that could be considered an accomplishment. However, I will not take his word for it.

ISSUESLet's see...
1. TAXES/ECONOMY –Governor Huckabee supports The FairTax because it will restore the “Made in America” label, making American goods 12-25% more competitive, boosting economic growth, increasing our exports, and securing American jobs. It also prevents criminals or illegal aliens from avoiding taxes, and makes the taxes we all pay 100% transparent. How? What? All I see is:

1. FairTax
2. ???
3. Profit (and less illegal aliens)

2. GOVERNMENT SPENDING – Governor Huckabee is committed to reducing government spending. One way he’ll do this is by reducing the cost of welfare. Governor Huckabee will work with states to reduce welfare roles through programs like the one he implemented in Arkansas, which reduced welfare roles by 50%. Bad idea.

3. HEALTH CARE –Governor Huckabee will implement a consumer-based healthcare system that emphasizes preventative medicine and wellness. Because 70% of our $2 trillion dollar healthcare costs is spent treating chronic, preventable diseases, this approach will make healthcare more affordable for everybody while keeping us healthier.More affordable? Yeah right...

4. FAMILY VALUES –Governor Huckabee supports a federal constitutional amendment to protect the right to life. He Successfully fought for Arknasas’ marriage amendment and strongly supports a similar, federal constitutional amendment defining marriage as a union between one man and one woman. This I find funny, seeing as he does not support the right to life.

5. IMMIGRATION –Governor Huckabee will secure the border (with physical barriers, electronic surveillance, and more border-patrol personnel and detention facilities). He will also end sanctuary cities and increase penalties on, and enforcement against, employers who hire illegal immigrants. Governor Huckabee will make sure the border patrol has adequate funding to end our “catch and release” system so that everyone caught trying to enter illegally, overstaying their visa, or committing a crime will be held until they’re tried, convicted, and deported. Gov. Huckabee has also signed the Numbers USA "No Amnesty" Pledge.They fail to mention he hates me because I have two citizenships, but that's just a personal reason for me not to vote for him.

6. WAR ON TERROR AND IRAQ – Governor Huckabee knows it takes a large, well-equipped military to ensure our national defense and to deter conventional military confrontations. He also knows we need large, well-equipped intelligence and Special Forces operations for our national offense – so we can effectively find and eliminate terrorist threats at home or abroad. Governor Huckabee will be a Commander in Chief who knows that IF WE HAVE TO FIGHT A WAR, our President has to fight it the way our GENERALS tell him it can be won, not the way we want it to be won. =/

7. ENERGY INDEPENDENCE –Governor Huckabee will implement a program to end the import of foreign oil in the next ten years by increasing domestic oil production in the short term, and then replacing oil-based energy infrastructure with alternative and renewable energies. The latter is not realistically possible without government spending. I'd love to see how he gets around that. Also, "increasing domestic oil production" is a funny euphemism for "drilling in protected areas in Alaska".

8. CLEMENCIES – Arkansas Governors grant clemency, but the parole board grants parole. Wayne DuMond’s parole was granted by the board and NOT Governor Huckabee. What kind of issue is this? And how does it excuse the fact that he put his weight behind DuMond's parole?

9. TAXES –When Governor Huckabee left office, the tax rates remained exactly the same as when he first came into office. Governor Huckabee returned almost $400 million to Arkansas taxpayers, and he also DOUBLED the standard deduction for individuals and married couples, DOUBLED the childcare tax credit, and eliminated the marriage penalty. He also repealed capital gains taxes for home sales, lowered the capital gains rate by 25%, expanded the homestead exemption, and set up tax-free savings accounts for medical care and college tuition. Gov. Huckabee has also signed the Americans for Tax Reform's pledge not to raise taxes.Meh. We'll see.

10. SECOND AMENDMENT-Okay...
• Lifetime member of the NRA, member for over 15 years Whoopee...
• First Governor to have concealed-carry permit Whoopee...
• Removed restrictions on carry permit holders First real stance.
• Protected gun manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits Such as?
• Opposes reauthorization of the Assault Weapon BanBad.
• Opposes expansion of the unconstitutional “Brady Bill”That's stupid. How's it unconstitutional?
• Opposes waiting period for purchase of firearmsWhy?
• Opposes background checks on private firearms transactions at gun showsWhy the hell not?
• Will nominate judges who interpret the constitution as the Founders intended, rather than as a “living document reflecting current political trends or opinions”That would be interesting, considering his opposition to the assault weapons ban. I'm pretty sure the Founding Fathers never had any.
• An avid hunter and conservationist, and a member of the Ducks Unlimited, National Wild Turkey Federation and BASS.Whoopee...

Reference link:
http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=Blogs.View&Blog_id=1332

So, where are the good stances?