NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRWwI61so5Q

This is crazy stuff. Just blows peoples minds.

http://www.shd-wk.com/sw/show.php?comic=070701.png

A light beam can't twist space. Photons have zero mass, if they didn't every light source would be a massive warp in the space time continuum.

It will be interesting to see if it works. I wonder when go time is. I also wonder where they are going to get all the power they'll need.

I thought you had to move at 88MPH in a car to timetravel?:confused:
That's why they have speed limits of 70MPH, so not too many drivers end up in the past, which is what causes all those car crashes is someone going too fast and going forward in time allowing the unfortunate future driver to manoeuvre.

It would be so cool if this time machine really does work. :D :cool:

A light beam can't twist space. Photons have zero mass, if they didn't every light source would be a massive warp in the space time continuum.
Quite true.

If I remember correctly, only gravity can bend space and time. If something has no mass, it has no gravity. How, then, can it bend space and time?

I remain skeptical.

except... Blackholes don't 'twist' space (they bend/warp it, different motion all together) , and when an object is 'sucked' into one, it doesn't appear to travel faster than the speed of light to any observer, instead, when it reaches the speed of light, it appears to 'freeze' to an outside observer, while we don't yet understand exactly what it would look like from the point of view of the object int he black hole, we're pretty sure lightspeed is never observed to be exceeded.

And light doesn't warp, twist or bend space, but may appear to as it travels along warps, bends and twists.

My guess is somebody forgot you can't actually divide by zero.

I thought you had to move at 88MPH in a car to timetravel?:confused:
That's why they have speed limits of 70MPH, so not too many drivers end up in the past, which is what causes all those car crashes is someone going too fast and going forward in time allowing the unfortunate future driver to manoeuvre.

If that were true, then why do they go at like 200MPH in some country in Europe? You can go 88MPH without going into the past. Besides, that was just in a movie.

If that were true, then why do they go at like 200MPH in some country in Europe? You can go 88MPH without going into the past. Besides, that was just in a movie.

Are you trying to compete with Sean Penn for title of least developed sense of humor?

If that were true, then why do they go at like 200MPH in some country in Europe? You can go 88MPH without going into the past. Besides, that was just in a movie.

huh?
I was referring to the movie in jest linking the going backward in time to this thread. I wouldn't actually believe a car can go back in time by going 88MPH.:D

My guess is somebody forgot you can't actually divide by zero.
Sure you can. You just keep taking away zeroes until you oh shiiiiiii

Quite true.

If I remember correctly, only gravity can bend space and time. If something has no mass, it has no gravity. How, then, can it bend space and time?

I remain skeptical.

Well a rotating black hole should emit gravity waves, a warping of space time around the hole. I think binary neutron stars do as well. Well, most objects in space probably do, if only on a level we can't notice.

A light beam can't twist space. Photons have zero mass, if they didn't every light source would be a massive warp in the space time continuum.

But they have a mass equivalent. Remember, Energy = Mass x Speed of Light Squared.

A light beam can't twist space. Photons have zero mass, if they didn't every light source would be a massive warp in the space time continuum.

Dont say that to me, tell that to the Pro. This light beam as seen makes a bend, and a complex shape.

Quite true.

If I remember correctly, only gravity can bend space and time. If something has no mass, it has no gravity. How, then, can it bend space and time?

I remain skeptical.

Not exactly. Mass bends space and time. The resulting curvature of spacetime as a result of the presence of mass is called gravity. For instance, the sun produces an enormous gravitational field (relative to us) because its mass generates a huge (again, relative to us) curvature in local spacetime.

The day you turn the machine on and start getting messages from the future, you create several new future timeliness with each received message, if you can and do take action on the knowledge that you gain from those messages.

The thing that bothers me about that machine is what exactly can we do with it. ACTUALLY go back or foward in time.... and change something... I just can't understand this. There must be some other purpose..

Well a rotating black hole should emit gravity waves, a warping of space time around the hole. I think binary neutron stars do as well. Well, most objects in space probably do, if only on a level we can't notice.

Gravitational waves. Biiig difference. Gravity waves are actually a buoyancy wave where fluid flow is perturbed, resulting in a wavefront being generated as gravity acts to restore the fluid to equilibrium. It's in fact a phenomenon that is the focus of the research I'm doing. Completely unrelated to gravitational waves.

The day you turn the machine on and start getting messages from the future, you create several new future timeliness with each received message, if you can and do take action on the knowledge that you gain from those messages.

That depends on whether or not that particular interpretation is true. We're really not sure what would happen, because we have no way of testing it, or even developing a framework to analyze something like that.

The thing that bothers me about that machine is what exactly can we do with it. ACTUALLY go back or foward in time.... and change something... I just can't understand this. There must be some other purpose..


so far it looks like they expect to send one way messages from the future into past. I think the purpose is to see if it can be done.

Yeah that probably is the answer. I want to know the cost of this time machine. Next year should be the projected test if it works.

so far it looks like they expect to send one way messages from the future into past. I think the purpose is to see if it can be done.

My point is that we have no idea what the effect this will have on causality. It could create to divergent universes, one in which a letter was received from the future, and the other where it hadn't been sent. However, we simply have no way of knowing until this contraption is ready to go (assuming it works).

That depends on whether or not that particular interpretation is true. We're really not sure what would happen, because we have no way of testing it, or even developing a framework to analyze something like that.

Yeah, there were several things I was wondering about how they decided what they could do with this.

How do they know that they are limited to sending messages one way through time?

How do they figure that they will be able to send a message to a particular time?

Yeah, there were several things I was wondering about how they decided what they could do with this.

How do they know that they are limited to sending messages one way through time?

How do they figure that they will be able to send a message to a particular time?

I don't know enough about their work and the underlying theory to competently answer either of those questions, though I'd imagine its a consequence of the math.

So they plan on bending space time to the point that it flows in a circle. Hoping to open a portal of sorts that, as regular time moves forward, will remain open indefinitely as the machine continues to run. I wonder though... if such a ting were possible; when they turn the thing on, that point in space time might open up to the very beginning leaving the chance of heat and radiation from the big bang to come through ripping space time apart. :P /talking out of ass

So they plan on bending space time to the point that it flows in a circle. Hoping to open a portal of sorts that, as regular time moves forward, will remain open indefinitely as the machine continues to run. I wonder though... if such a ting were possible; when they turn the thing on, that point in space time might open up to the very beginning leaving the chance of heat and radiation from the big bang to come through ripping space time apart. :P /talking out of ass

No, no. The device itself acts as two ends of a tunnel, basically. It will allow information and possibly matter to be transferred back to when it was first turned on, but never further back than that. Also, it's not a "portal" per se.

No, no. The device itself acts as two ends of a tunnel, basically. It will allow information and possibly matter to be transferred back to when it was first turned on, but never further back than that. Also, it's not a "portal" per se.

Damn. I was hoping to kill GlaDOS.

This shit is way too complex for me to attempt to challenge.

No, no. The device itself acts as two ends of a tunnel, basically. It will allow information and possibly matter to be transferred back to when it was first turned on, but never further back than that. Also, it's not a "portal" per se.


Listen buddy - just be impressed that I was able to talk directly out of my ass.

Besides - Maybe they don't fully understand what will happen and their math was off. :p

so it's not the internet after all

I will bet five hundred million dollars that this will not work. Know why? We haven't had any time travelers yet. If time travel exists at any point in the universe, we'd have time travelers. We don't, so it doesn't and won't.

I will bet five hundred million dollars that this will not work. Know why? We haven't had any time travelers yet. If time travel exists at any point in the universe, we'd have time travelers. We don't, so it doesn't and won't.

Actually, this is a flawed argument. Time travel, or at least using this method, can only go as far back until the first machine was switched on, and no further. Not only that, but only sub-atomic particles can travel through this, not people.

I think the man in the movie was interviewed for NPR's "This American Life."

Are you trying to compete with Sean Penn for title of least developed sense of humor?

See the thing is, it wasn't actually funny, so no, he wasn't. He just took it to seroiusly.

The biggest secret in the universe is that Photons really do have Mass. If humanity ever learns this, God will be forced to kill us.

can't we just let future us do it and send the instructions back?

the future sounds lazy :mad:

The biggest secret in the universe is that Photons really do have Mass. If humanity ever learns this, God will be forced to kill us.

This is actually something of a misnomer. Photons have a rest mass of 0, but a mass for a given photon can be calculated from its wavelength (thanks to di Broglie's equation relating wavelength and momentum), from which one can determine the relativistic mass of the photon.
Of course, no one talks about relativistic masses anymore, so it's sort of a nonissue.

This is actually something of a misnomer. Photons have a rest mass of 0, but a mass for a given photon can be calculated from its wavelength (thanks to di Broglie's equation relating wavelength and momentum), from which one can determine the relativistic mass of the photon.
Of course, no one talks about relativistic masses anymore, so it's sort of a nonissue.

A photon at rest does have mass. Fortunately, photons have only rested once. It was on the seventh day after the big bang. This was confirmed to me in dream by the future Pope Particle the XXXIV. Pope Particle waved at me during mass. The message was clear.

Why can't you go faster then the speed of light? People seem to be trying to get at that. Light travels, well I forget the exact number but uh, fast. Hypothetically if it was 100 mph, why would nothing be able to go over 100 mph. So anything over that just freezes up. I jus don't see why.

Why can't you go faster then the speed of light? People seem to be trying to get at that. Light travels, well I forget the exact number but uh, fast. Hypothetically if it was 100 mph, why would nothing be able to go over 100 mph. So anything over that just freezes up. I jus don't see why.

It comes back to relativity. Basically as an object speeds up to near the speed of light, its mass increases exponentially while its length decreases exponentially. The mass goes to infinity as it approaches the c, and thus an infinite amount of thrust is required to get it to and keep it at c.

There actually is a theoretical particle that goes faster than c, called the tachyon. But it's getting into a level of physics that makes my head spin.

It comes back to relativity. Basically as an object speeds up to near the speed of light, its mass increases exponentially while its length decreases exponentially. The mass goes to infinity as it approaches the c, and thus an infinite amount of thrust is required to get it to and keep it at c.

There actually is a theoretical particle that goes faster than c, called the tachyon. But it's getting into a level of physics that makes my head spin.Better question: what is the speed of light relative to?

No, no. The device itself acts as two ends of a tunnel, basically. It will allow information and possibly matter to be transferred back to when it was first turned on, but never further back than that. Also, it's not a "portal" per se.

Now answer me this. If I understand this correctly the machine will only work from the point it is turned on to the point it is turned off? That would then mean that in reality he would only get a message not more then a year or two old. Reason being is that he is creating a tunnel that is only good for the time that it is on. Any interruption with the power source would close the tunnel at what ever the point in the future it was turned off? Assuming that it works he would most likely improve on the design of the device. Hence the very first one would most likely be turned off in the near future? Am I rambling here or am I understanding this correctly?

Now answer me this. If I understand this correctly the machine will only work from the point it is turned on to the point it is turned off? That would then mean that in reality he would only get a message not more then a year or two old. Reason being is that he is creating a tunnel that is only good for the time that it is on. Any interruption with the power source would close the tunnel at what ever the point in the future it was turned off? Assuming that it works he would most likely improve on the design of the device. Hence the very first one would most likely be turned off in the near future? Am I rambling here or am I understanding this correctly?

No, you're right. The pathway this thing creates is only there over the duration the pathway's driving mechanism is active. Once the power's cut, it stops working. If it's brought online again, information can only ever be transmitted back to the point it was turned on the second time.

Assuming this machine works and they are able to pass data between two points. Do you all think this can be very dangerous in the wrong hands? Our world would be changed forever. Data transmission from the future would threaten our financial markets, military, politics and don't forget gambling.

Assuming this machine works and they are able to pass data between two points. Do you all think this can be very dangerous in the wrong hands? Our world would be changed forever. Data transmission from the future would threaten our financial markets, military, politics and don't forget gambling.All technology is dangerous. It just depends on how it is used.

Better question: what is the speed of light relative to?

itself strangely enough.

Look at it this way, Two starships are traveling in opposite directions (The usss 1 and usss 2).

They pass near enough to each other to observe each other's speed.
How fast does each one observe the other to be going relative to itself?

If their relative speed is slow enough, they will each observe the other's speed to be roughly the combination of their two speeds.

If however they are traveling at the speed of light (these are hypothetical ships so they can do this, it doesn't work with real spacecraft) they will observe each other's speed to be roughly the speed of light (rather than the twice the speed of light you might imagine from classical physics)

This has been experimentally proven by shooting particles at each other at speeds approaching the speed of light, and observing that the resulting collisions are equivalent to relative speeds lower than the speed of light (again, rather than the greater than the speed of light you might expect from classical physics)
Another example: Two particles are collided, each has a velocity of .75c (75% the speed of light) so there classical relative velocities are 1.5c
The resultant collision will be observed to be equivalent to a collision closer to ~.8-9c.

Are you trying to compete with Sean Penn for title of least developed sense of humor?
That was my skull!

Are you trying to compete with Sean Penn for title of least developed sense of humor?

Dude, it depends on how a person says it. Since this is a thread where you type everything, how am I supposed to know?

huh?
I was referring to the movie in jest linking the going backward in time to this thread. I wouldn't actually believe a car can go back in time by going 88MPH.:D

nice. That was funny. :D

All technology is dangerous. It just depends on how it is used.

Although you don't run the risk of causing a time-paradox with too many technologies.

See the thing is, it wasn't actually funny, so no, he wasn't. He just took it to seroiusly.

I'm a girl!!!

Although you don't run the risk of causing a time-paradox with too many technologies.Sure you can. Just run 1/0 through your calculator.

OH SH-

No, you're right. The pathway this thing creates is only there over the duration the pathway's driving mechanism is active. Once the power's cut, it stops working. If it's brought online again, information can only ever be transmitted back to the point it was turned on the second time.

It's not a pipe though, once a time machine is active it will always be active at that point in space and time. Effectively once it's on it's on forever, somewhen.

Sure you can. Just run 1/0 through your calculator.

OH SH-

Wouldn't that just be a mathematical paradox though? Also everyone knows that math is only a theory. I prefer the alternative - intelligent counting.

the narrator's voice is hilarious.

what if the first time he turns it on, the very first message he receives is a desperate plea from his future self begging him not to turn the machine on?

ohhhhh.....(cue Twilight zone music)

A light beam can't twist space. Photons have zero mass, if they didn't every light source would be a massive warp in the space time continuum.

How do you know they aren't? Everything has mass. Photons have so insanely little, it's considered none. Electrons are the same way, but have more mass.

the narrator's voice is hilarious.

It's Tom Baker! Do you not know anything philistine? ;)