NationStates Jolt Archive

Dontcha know, there was NO holocaust, nor genocide in WWII?:rolleyes:

Edit: This thread is MINE. muahahahahah!

Which genocide was the worst during WWII?

Pearl Harbor was pretty ugly too. As was the japanese-american interment camps.

And Eva Braun. Did Hitler actually fuck that? I wouldn't fuck her with Eleanor Roosevelt's dick! :p

Technically speaking, the Rape of Nanjing was neither a genocide nor a holocaust.

Technically speaking, the Rape of Nanjing was neither a genocide nor a holocaust.

No, just a bloodbath, and a whole bunch of Japanese soldiers running through every kind of unrestrained depravity and deliberate cruelty they could think of.

Technically speaking, the Rape of Nanjing was neither a genocide nor a holocaust.True. It was really more of a "Shoot the next Chink you see."

Holocaust and genocide are not synonymous.

True. It was really more of a "Shoot the next Chink you see."

Alternately: "Rape the next Chink you see. Unless of course necrophilia is your thing."

No, just a bloodbath, and a whole bunch of Japanese soldiers running through every kind of unrestrained depravity and deliberate cruelty they could think of.
Yes. The sad part is that Japan DID attempt an actual genocide later on in Northern China with orders to Kill All, Steal All, Burn All (sanko operations), but that are been more or less ignored with the Rape of Nanjing coming to be called a genocide and/or holocaust when it was neither.

True. It was really more of a "Shoot the next Chink you see."
Or behead the next one, or burn, disembowel, tear limb from limb, skin, bayonet, cripple, etc...

Pearl Harbor was pretty ugly too. As was the japanese-american interment camps.

And Eva Braun. Did Hitler actually fuck that? I wouldn't fuck her with Eleanor Roosevelt's dick! :p

Surely Pearl Harbor (a military attack on a military installation with few civilian casualties) isn't comparable to the likes of the Holocaust?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure there was only one holocaust in WWII.

The death of 200,000 while tragic does not even begin to compare to the deaths of 10 million.

Surely Pearl Harbor (a military attack on a military installation with few civilian casualties) isn't comparable to the likes of the Holocaust?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure there was only one holocaust in WWII.

So Stalin's mass murder didn't count?

The death of 200,000 while tragic does not even begin to compare to the deaths of 10 million.

Neo Art, the Rape of Nanking was just one part of the "Asian Holocaust." There were other extremely ugly episodes in Asia, and as many as thirty million civilians died under Japanese rule (a figure, if not comparable to the number of Russians, Poles, Gypsies and Jews murdered by the Nazis, then certainly greater).

What makes it worse is that to this day, the Japanese government refuses to apologise for their acts during World War II and still views war criminals quite highly. At least the German government has had the balls to acknowledge their wrong, apologise, and attempt to ensure that Nazism is not glorified.

Neo Art, the Rape of Nanking was just one part of the "Asian Holocaust."

I am aware. However, that wasn't part of the poll. The poll did not mention the "asian holocaust" in its entirety, it mentioned only the rape of nanking, which resulted in about 200,000 deaths. And 200,000 deaths, while significant, pales in comparison to the tragidy wrought by the holocaust.

So Stalin's mass murder didn't count?

No, because it wasn't a damn holocaust. Learn what words mean before you use them.

No, because it wasn't a damn holocaust. Learn what words mean before you use them.

Good Point but I think he meant Genocide, Stalins work camps and other mass killings are the worst, 6 million poeple mostly Jews from Hitler seems small compared to Stalins 22 million but as these Russians and other east european people don't have influence or money it is usually overlooked by people

Stalin's actions don't qualify as a genocide either. It's not like it's hard to find out definitions of words or anything.

What would classify as Stalins intentions then?

Good Point but I think he meant Genocide, Stalins work camps and other mass killings are the worst, 6 million poeple mostly Jews from Hitler seems small compared to Stalins 22 million but as these Russians and other east european people don't have influence or money it is usually overlooked by people

Stalin's actions don't qualify as a genocide either. It's not like it's hard to find out definitions of words or anything.

6 million poeple mostly Jews from Hitler

Um, no. 6 million people was just the jews. Add in the gypses, homosexuals, various other folks and the number rises to about 10 million.

What would classify as Stalins intentions then?

a genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of an entire people who belong to one racial, political, cultural or religious group. Hitler's targeting of the jews could classify as attempted genocide, as he was quite literally attempting to destroy the jews.

Stalins work camps were not based on race, politics, culture or religion

a genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of an entire people who belong to one racial, political, cultural or religious group. Hitler's targeting of the jews could classify as attempted genocide, as he was quite literally attempting to destroy the jews.

Stalins work camps were not based on race, politics, culture or religion

I agree, Stalin was definitely equal opportunity. Outside of the Jews I don't believe there was any other group that could qualify under that definition. Everything else was mass murder. Every time I think of the number of people dead is just amazes me. Seventy two million people died in WWII. Just a staggering number.

Um, no. 6 million people was just the jews. Add in the gypses, homosexuals, various other folks and the number rises to about 10 million.

Thank you for informing me, The more you know!

a genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of an entire people who belong to one racial, political, cultural or religious group. Hitler's targeting of the jews could classify as attempted genocide, as he was quite literally attempting to destroy the jews.

Stalin's work camps were not based on race, politics, culture or religion

Yes I misread the definition. but nevertheless Stalin did kill more people and some were political prisoners more than 2.6 million were sent without trial according to official reports other were sent because of race it was worse than the concentration camps of the NAZI regime

I agree, Stalin was definitely equal opportunity. Outside of the Jews I don't believe there was any other group that could qualify under that definition. Everything else was mass murder. Every time I think of the number of people dead is just amazes me. Seventy two million people died in WWII. Just a staggering number.

Are you talking about WWII specifically

Yes I misread the definition. but nevertheless Stalin did kill more people and some were political prisoners more than 2.6 million were sent without trial according to official reports other were sent because of race it was worse than the concentration camps

Um, the gulags were concentration camps.

Um, the gulags were concentration camps.

edited but they are generally considered to be work camps

Are you talking about WWII specifically

Yes only WWII. We know of Stalin after WWII and how he put the screws to the Ukrainians.

Yes only WWII. We know of Stalin after WWII and how he put the screws to the Ukrainians.

Thats what I thought, not to mention countless other Genocides aroud the world in the past 100 years

What makes it worse is that to this day, the Japanese government refuses to apologise for their acts during World War II
Yes, they have. Repeatedly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

and still views war criminals quite highly.
Depends, which part of the Japanese government are we talking about? If you mean the extreme right wing nationalists, yes. If you mean the government in general, no.

At least the German government has had the balls to acknowledge their wrong, apologise, and attempt to ensure that Nazism is not glorified.
Can't find a lot of glorification of WWII beyond the extreme right in Japan, funnily enough, the same situation exists in Germany as well.

Technically speaking, the Rape of Nanjing was neither a genocide nor a holocaust.

Technically speaking, "Stalin's mass murdering; Nazi's practicing combat on Spanish communists; Soviets practicing on Spanish Nazi's," weren't in WWII ;).

Also I'm not sure what the "The theoretical US holocaust of German POWs" is. So I suppose there is only really one answer.

Even letting aside numerical consideration, the Nazi massacres surpassed everything that has been seen in history till now; because it wasn't a barbaric horde sistematically killing whomever they wanted: it was a (supposedly) civilised, modern country, a country of great culture, (think - it was the country of Kant, Beethoven, Goethe, Schiller!) whose leadership chose to use the full power of the industrial age to enslave and exterminate systematically millions of people (not just the jews: political oppositors, gypsies, PoWs and civilians from the eastern front, Jeoha's witnesses, etc, etc...). Before that, the world thought that the industrial age had rooted out the worst, beastly instincts of humanity: after that, we realised that humanity hasn't changed in the last 10000 years very much - it's got simply more power, for good or for evil.

"Although Nazi Germany made by far the most murderous use of eugenic policies, it should be remembered that in the twentieth century, eugenics-often described as 'population policies'-were also used in several other European countries and the USA against particular sections of the population, notably the disabled. These policies mostly took the form of the compulsary sterilization of 'feeble-minded' women. Racism led to black women being grossly over-represented among 60,000 people forcibly sterilized in several US states between 1907 and 1960. In Scandinavia, political leaders and geneticists adopted policies for compulsary sterilization because they were concerned that the emerging welfare state would encourage the 'unfit' to reproduce and would therefore reduce the quality of the 'national stock'. In Sweden alone, 63,000 people, 90 per cent of them women, were sterilized between 1934 and 1975. Norway, a much smaller country, sterilized 48,000 people in the same period. British and Dutch medical experts and policy-makers, by contrast, adopted voluntary sterilization, together with the mass institutionalization and segregation of the 'feeble minded' (Rose 1999)."

Anthony Giddens, 2006 5th edition, Sociology. Great Britain: Polity Press
(Page 263 column 2, Para 2)
I was reminded of that when i read your post, something to remember i think.

There were other holocausts in WWII?

Um, no. 6 million people was just the jews. Add in the gypses, homosexuals, various other folks and the number rises to about 10 million.

Add the victims of the German campaign in Russia and Stalin and Hitler are pretty much on par.

Who gives a shite, they're both rotting in hell now! :p

No mention of Dresden? Huh.



BECAUSE IT WASNT A BLOODY GENOCIDE!!


BAAAAAH people need to learn what words mean before they use them!


Anyway....the holocaust never happened. Its all just a jewish conspirecy.

No mention of Dresden? Huh.

BECAUSE IT WASNT A BLOODY GENOCIDE!!


BAAAAAH people need to learn what words mean before they use them!


Anyway....the holocaust never happened. Its all just a jewish conspirecy.

hol·o·caust (hl-kôst, hl-)
n.
1. Great destruction resulting in the extensive loss of life, especially by fire.

I'm sorry, you were saying?

If there is a "worst," does that mean there is also a "best" holocaust? Or perhaps a "it wasn't so bad, those whiners" holocaust?

Pearl Harbor was pretty ugly too. As was the japanese-american interment camps.

And Eva Braun. Did Hitler actually fuck that? I wouldn't fuck her with Eleanor Roosevelt's dick! :pShe looked hawt in The Downfall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downfall_%28film%29)...

BECAUSE IT WASNT A BLOODY GENOCIDE!!Depends on how you define genocide.

What Mao began before the war, and continued onwards into the current day...

We still don't know how many died, though it is believed to have been between 45 and 70 million people. That is a lot of people slaughtered for the "Glorious Revolution."

Pffft, who cares about Catholics? They don't run the world.
Nah, they're fine with the Galactic Empire.

In a history seminar someone claimed that not many Jews died as a result of the Nazis and most of the victims were 'innocent Catholics'.Ah, the Christian Party is still around then...

In a history seminar someone claimed that not many Jews died as a result of the Nazis and most of the victims were 'innocent Catholics'.

In a history seminar someone claimed that not many Jews died as a result of the Nazis and most of the victims were 'innocent Catholics'.

Pffft, who cares about Catholics? They don't run the world.

Pffft, who cares about Catholics? They don't run the world.

*wearing crucifix and raising hand* I care about catholics.

Wasn't Hitler a catholic? Fairly sure he was baptised as one, even if he didn't practice it much.

Wasn't Hitler a catholic? Fairly sure he was baptised as one, even if he didn't practice it much.
He was only still a Catholic if you deny the possibility of apostasy.

What the Japs did to China and the rest of Asia. The Rape of Nanking isn't even the tip of that disgraceful iceberg.

He was only still a Catholic if you deny the possibility of apostasy.

Or if you bother to read what he wrote.

Even though they were all horrible, the holocaust was the worst. They killed thousands of people of different religions. :sniper: That was not cool. They killed people of my religion to, so I have a grudge against them. :( It scares me because of what this world has become. We can't have another holocaust. That would be the worst thing.

What makes it worse is that to this day, the Japanese government refuses to apologise for their acts during World War II and still views war criminals quite highly. At least the German government has had the balls to acknowledge their wrong, apologise, and attempt to ensure that Nazism is not glorified.

You do realize that until very recently the German government didn't acknowledge to their own countrymen that the Holocaust happened? German schoolchildren definitely didn't learn about it.

According to the American Heritage Dictionary, the definition of a holocaust is any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life. Holocaust refers to only the Nazi extermination of non-Aryans. The holocausts that occurred during WWII that I can think of include: The rape of Nanking, Singapore, Everything else the Japanese did in China, the Bataan Death March, The Nazi Concentration camps, Stalin's mass slaughter, Bombing of London, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki.

Of these, I would have to say that Hiroshima and Nagasaki tie for most horriffic with the Nazi Camps and the Japanese atrocities in China. Of course, I'm biased, like everyone else on here.

The worst Holocaust however, is most certainly the Nazi Camps, because if you capitalize it, that's all the word refers to. Isn't etymology fun?

BECAUSE IT WASNT A BLOODY GENOCIDE!!


BAAAAAH people need to learn what words mean before they use them!


Anyway....the holocaust never happened. Its all just a jewish conspirecy.

No it was a holocaust.

What Mao began before the war, and continued onwards into the current day...

We still don't know how many died, though it is believed to have been between 45 and 70 million people. That is a lot of people slaughtered for the "Glorious Revolution."

Dude, In WWII, China was the victim!

it's got simply more power, for good or for evil.


Yeah, sure. For Westerners!

What the Japs did to China and the rest of Asia. The Rape of Nanking isn't even the tip of that disgraceful iceberg.

Exactly. The Rape of Nanking is the only one really talked about because A) it's pronouncable and B) (At least in America) History teachers are too busy trying to make the students feel hereditary guilt for Hiroshima and Nagasaki to teach you any thing about the other atrocities. Welcome, boys and girls, to Euro-centric history 101.

Add the victims of the German campaign in Russia and Stalin and Hitler are pretty much on par.



Russia always has the most casualties in major wars; anyone stupid enough to attack a Russian winter deserves what they get. Hitler, Napoleon, they just don't learn.

You do realize that until very recently the German government didn't acknowledge to their own countrymen that the Holocaust happened? German schoolchildren definitely didn't learn about it.

Is that true?

But however, regardless, IT NEEDS TO BE LEARNED. For as the saying goes, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

You do realize that until very recently the German government didn't acknowledge to their own countrymen that the Holocaust happened? German schoolchildren definitely didn't learn about it.
Das ist utter bullshit, as they say in Germany.

Das ist utter bullshit, as they say in Germany.

If you say so, the German exchange student at my school last year said it was glossed over and barely touched on until high school- kinda like Hiroshima and Nagasaki is in the US. I guess I should have said elementary school children. And I did say in the recent past, didn't I?

If you say so, the German exchange student at my school last year said it was glossed over and barely touched on until high school- kinda like Hiroshima and Nagasaki is in the US. I guess I should have said elementary school children. And I did say in the recent past, didn't I?
Yeah, they save it until you're over the age of like 9. What a surprise, there.

Since only one of the above fits the definition of holocaust, it seems obvious which was the worst.

Now, if you'd asked about genocides or mass murders instead...

If you say so, the German exchange student at my school last year said it was glossed over and barely touched on until high school- kinda like Hiroshima and Nagasaki is in the US. I guess I should have said elementary school children. And I did say in the recent past, didn't I?

Are you saying children from the age should be learning about it between the ages of 5-13 rather when they are older from 13-18, My missus mother attend school in Germany back in the 70's and I remember a last year when we discussing this incident and she had learnt about it in school

I would vote for either the Nazi Holocaust or the mass-murder of Stalin, but the mass-murders of Stalin cannot be really called a single genocide or a single action like Hitler's act could.

Are you saying children from the age should be learning about it between the ages of 5-13 rather when they are older from 13-18, My missus mother attend school in Germany back in the 70's and I remember a last year when we discussing this incident and she had learnt about it in school

I'm sorry if my information is incorrect. It may be that I didn't really understand what he was saying or got confused. Absolutely possible. Yes, I do say younger children should be learning about it. I was taught the about the Holocaust before I was taught about the devestation caused by the atomic bomb. In eighth grade English, we read about nothing but the Holocaust and one really boring book on the civil war. "The Lies Your History Teacher Told You" is one of my pet peeves.

I'm sorry if my information is incorrect. It may be that I didn't really understand what he was saying or got confused. Absolutely possible. Yes, I do say younger children should be learning about it. I was taught the about the Holocaust before I was taught about the devestation caused by the atomic bomb. In eighth grade English, we read about nothing but the Holocaust and one really boring book on the civil war. "The Lies Your History Teacher Told You" is one of my pet peeves.
Uh... you do realize that the job of the English teacher is to, oh I don't know, teach you English and NOT World History, correct?

The whole reason why the Holocaust gets the lion's share of the mention in the US is because it is part of US history. Many Jews who survived the camps immigrated to the US after the war and parts of the US military helped liberate some of the camps. The US did not really fight in China and very few were around Nanjing when it fell. Our battles with Japan were in the Pacific (Hence why China tends to get very pissed off that the US considers WWII to be the Pacific War and not East Asia).

Finally, there's the question of random barbarism (Random here meaning not directed, not in a few instances) being worse than the cold-blooded calculated attempt to destroy an ethnicity. Japan was brutal, and I would use the word barbaric in what it did in China and the rest of South-East Asia, but they did not actually set out to kill every single person in Asia unlike what Nazi-Germany aimed to do.

Uh... you do realize that the job of the English teacher is to, oh I don't know, teach you English and NOT World History, correct?

The whole reason why the Holocaust gets the lion's share of the mention in the US is because it is part of US history. Many Jews who survived the camps immigrated to the US after the war and parts of the US military helped liberate some of the camps. The US did not really fight in China and very few were around Nanjing when it fell. Our battles with Japan were in the Pacific (Hence why China tends to get very pissed off that the US considers WWII to be the Pacific War and not East Asia).

Finally, there's the question of random barbarism (Random here meaning not directed, not in a few instances) being worse than the cold-blooded calculated attempt to destroy an ethnicity. Japan was brutal, and I would use the word barbaric in what it did in China and the rest of South-East Asia, but they did not actually set out to kill every single person in Asia unlike what Nazi-Germany aimed to do.

I realize that; she didn't.

Many Jews got turned away too and many American POWs were killed in the Bataan Death March. My personal bias is also intruding here; as an Asian-American, I get very sick of the marginalization of Asia in US curriculum.

I agree that the two instances are probably equally horrible. My complaint is not so much that Nazi-Germany was worse or less bad than the Japanese atrocities, but that too few Westerners (Especially americans) acknowledge that they even happened.

I'm sorry if my information is incorrect. It may be that I didn't really understand what he was saying or got confused. Absolutely possible. Yes, I do say younger children should be learning about it. I was taught the about the Holocaust before I was taught about the devestation caused by the atomic bomb. In eighth grade English, we read about nothing but the Holocaust and one really boring book on the civil war. "The Lies Your History Teacher Told You" is one of my pet peeves.

OK fair call but not knowing where in the world you are in my neck of the woods year 8 high school not elementary

OK fair call but not knowing where in the world you are in my neck of the woods year 8 high school not elementary

Sorry about that misunderstanding, I should know better. My cousins start high school where my grade 7 is. Grade 8 was elementary at my school, with about half the class being 13 and the other half 14. To prevent any further misunderstandings; where I'm from K-8 is elementary, 9-12 is high school

I went to both primary and high school in Germany.

In primary school in German class we read a book about a boy and his Jewish friend during WWII, and covered the Holocaust in quite a lot of emotional depth with that.

In high school we covered it for many months in history, and in German we read Anne Frank's diaries. And that was until 9th Grade, after that I left for Australia. Chances are that the topic would have been covered again in later grades.

So it was- maybe the kid I knew's school was just lacking. I've had some teachers like that.

I'm sorry if my information is incorrect.
I went to both primary and high school in Germany.

In primary school in German class we read a book about a boy and his Jewish friend during WWII, and covered the Holocaust in quite a lot of emotional depth with that.

In high school we covered it for many months in history, and in German we read Anne Frank's diaries. And that was until 9th Grade, after that I left for Australia. Chances are that the topic would have been covered again in later grades.

According to the American Heritage Dictionary, the definition of a holocaust is any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life. Holocaust refers to only the Nazi extermination of non-Aryans. The holocausts that occurred during WWII that I can think of include: The rape of Nanking, Singapore, Everything else the Japanese did in China, the Bataan Death March, The Nazi Concentration camps, Stalin's mass slaughter, Bombing of London, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki.

Of these, I would have to say that Hiroshima and Nagasaki tie for most horriffic with the Nazi Camps and the Japanese atrocities in China. Of course, I'm biased, like everyone else on here.

The worst Holocaust however, is most certainly the Nazi Camps, because if you capitalize it, that's all the word refers to. Isn't etymology fun?
Ah, another reason to dislike the American Heritage Dictionary.

My favourite dictionary, the 2nd edition OED, defines holocaust as:
A sacrifice consumed wholly by fire
Of course, the 2nd edition OED was written prior to 1930.

Ah, another reason to dislike the American Heritage Dictionary.

My favourite dictionary, the 2nd edition OED, defines holocaust as:
A sacrifice consumed wholly by fire
Of course, the 2nd edition OED was written prior to 1930.

Unfortunately, I don't possess or have access to an OED. Furthermore, in the AHD entry, that was the second listed definition. The first being - great destruction caused by fire. Since, as my Latin teacher taught me, all possible definitions of a word are possible and limited only by context and interpretation, I chose to use the third listed entry in my post.

I realize that; she didn't.
Then why are you complaining that you only read about the Holocaust?


Many Jews got turned away too and many American POWs were killed in the Bataan Death March. My personal bias is also intruding here; as an Asian-American, I get very sick of the marginalization of Asia in US curriculum.

I agree that the two instances are probably equally horrible. My complaint is not so much that Nazi-Germany was worse or less bad than the Japanese atrocities, but that too few Westerners (Especially americans) acknowledge that they even happened.
Well, I would say that I have yet to run into someone who didn't know about the Bataan Death March. Sadly, for America, WWII started at Pearl Harbor and ended after Nagasaki. The period before then, in both Europe and Asia, happened to someone else and doesn't involve the US, so...

On this board you'll find many Brits who will be happy to complain about that as well. As for Asia, I agree. The US needs to acknowledge that the other side of the planet existed before Europeans found it, buuuuuuut, having said that, the US is a Western country and draws a great deal of its culture and history from the West. I kind of feel the same way when I say my junior high school student's history texts here in Japan, they were filled with a lot of East Asian history (Namely Japan, China, and Korea) and very little on things I thought were important, such as the Roman Empire.

Then why are you complaining that you only read about the Holocaust?


Well, I would say that I have yet to run into someone who didn't know about the Bataan Death March. Sadly, for America, WWII started at Pearl Harbor and ended after Nagasaki. The period before then, in both Europe and Asia, happened to someone else and doesn't involve the US, so...

On this board you'll find many Brits who will be happy to complain about that as well. As for Asia, I agree. The US needs to acknowledge that the other side of the planet existed before Europeans found it, buuuuuuut, having said that, the US is a Western country and draws a great deal of its culture and history from the West. I kind of feel the same way when I say my junior high school student's history texts here in Japan, they were filled with a lot of East Asian history (Namely Japan, China, and Korea) and very little on things I thought were important, such as the Roman Empire.

I need to learn to talk clearer. She said she wanted to teach us 'history through literature'. What she taught was Holocaust was evil. Holocaust was evil. Holocaust was evil. Holocaust was evil. Potatoes. Holocaust was evil.

Unfortunately, concerning the Bataan Death March, other than myself and a few of the history fanatics no student knew about it until I cajoled my teacher into letting me give my history report on it, rather than have my report be the seventh report that day on Auschwitz. The Bataan Death March wasn't even mentioned in my history book. The only reason anyone knows there was even fighting in the Philippines is because of Douglas McArthur and Johnny Cash.

It's good to hear that it's a worldwide affliction. It's depressing to hear that the education I've been so desperately seeking is, at least at younger levels of school, an Ideal. I still maintain that the US is the worst of the -centric curriculums though.

Surely Pearl Harbor (a military attack on a military installation with few civilian casualties) isn't comparable to the likes of the Holocaust?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure there was only one holocaust in WWII.

Correction, there were years of holocaust all over Europe, and the Pacific. A holocaust is merely massive destruction.

There was only on Holocaust (note the use of a proper noun), and that refers to the slaughtering of Jews.

The word 'holocaust' however does have independant usage, it's just not often used.

The death of 200,000 while tragic does not even begin to compare to the deaths of 10 million.

Indeed, and the death of 10 million, while tragic does not even begin to compare to the deaths of (conservative estimates:) 40 million, or (more reasonable estimates) 70 million. (Stalin's Purges.)

You do realize that until very recently the German government didn't acknowledge to their own countrymen that the Holocaust happened? German schoolchildren definitely didn't learn about it.Mirajii credibility -5If you say so, the German exchange student at my school last year said it was glossed over and barely touched on until high school- kinda like Hiroshima and Nagasaki is in the US. I guess I should have said elementary school children. And I did say in the recent past, didn't I?
...

Mirajii credibility -15

Correction, there were years of holocaust all over Europe, and the Pacific. A holocaust is merely massive destruction.

There was only on Holocaust (note the use of a proper noun), and that refers to the slaughtering of Jews.

The word 'holocaust' however does have independant usage, it's just not often used.

Yea! Someone who can phrase their words better than I myself.

I still maintain that the US is the worst of the -centric curriculums though.
You haven't seen China's...

Mirajii credibility -5
...

Mirajii credibility -15

I admitted that I was wrong. I accepted all arguments that proved wrong what I had believed was right. Can we stop attacking my mistakenness now?!

The whole reason why the Holocaust gets the lion's share of the mention in the US is because it is part of US history.Interesting.

I had the distinct advantage of attending school in the following countries US , Canada, Brazil, Bolivia, Belgium.. and none of them get such a Lion share as US.

But my German friends say they get quite a bit too.

as far as US Schools are concerned, what share would you say the following get:

Vietnam War.
Korea War.

You haven't seen China's...

Yikes. If it's worse than the USA's it must be scary.

Yea! Someone who can phrase their words better than I myself.

Are you being sarcastic? I'm not trying to accuse, I'm just not sure....

I admitted that I was wrong. I accepted all arguments that proved wrong what I had believed was right. Can we stop attacking my mistakenness now?!fair enough.

I shall leave alone your mistakenness.

Dude, In WWII, China was the victim!

They may have been the targets of Japanese Attempts at Genocide, but the Communists and Nationalists had been fighting a Civil War for years. And Guess what, Mao's forces had killed almost as many Chinese by the time that the Japanese where fully out of China as the Japanese Army Had. And when the dust had settled, the Communist Forces ramped theirs up and began to step up the slaughter of their Nationalist opponents.

In fact, the true victims in the Asian Theater where the Nationalists, the Tibetans, and those who had the temerity to disagree with the government. Look up the Cultural Revolution. Thanks to that, Mao topped even Stalin.

Go look up the Tianmen Square Massacre. It is the direct result of a Genocide that began before WWII and was running long into the Modern Age, and may still be running. I urge everyone to boycott the Olympics this year because of the policies of the ChiComs.

They may have been the targets of Japanese Attempts at Genocide, but the Communists and Nationalists had been fighting a Civil War for years. And Guess what, Mao's forces had killed almost as many Chinese by the time that the Japanese where fully out of China as the Japanese Army Had. And when the dust had settled, the Communist Forces ramped theirs up and began to step up the slaughter of their Nationalist opponents.

In fact, the true victims in the Asian Theater where the Nationalists, the Tibetans, and those who had the temerity to disagree with the government. Look up the Cultural Revolution. Thanks to that, Mao topped even Stalin.

Go look up the Tianmen Square Massacre. It is the direct result of a Genocide that began before WWII and was running long into the Modern Age, and may still be running. I urge everyone to boycott the Olympics this year because of the policies of the ChiComs.

The true victims in China were pretty much everyone. The Nationalists weren't exactly all that warm and fuzzy either, you know.

The true victims in China were pretty much everyone. The Nationalists weren't exactly all that warm and fuzzy either, you know.

They where the lesser of two evils in that situation though. Or three evils I should say...

They where the lesser of two evils in that situation though. Or three evils I should say...

Certainly true for the period of communist party rule over mainland China (and today). However, I don't know all that much about the Chinese civil war, but I'm not so sure about then.

Classicide is something I heartily approve of, bourgeois class enemies deserve to be shot or worked to death for exploiting the workers.

I admitted that I was wrong. I accepted all arguments that proved wrong what I had believed was right. Can we stop attacking my mistakenness now?!

Probably not, the next time someone comes across them for the first, you'll probably get attacked/ridiculed again. Welcome to NSG :p

the japanese genocide was the worst

Classicide is something I heartily approve of, bourgeois class enemies deserve to be shot or worked to death for exploiting the workers.Because that wouldn't be exploitation of a worker class at all...

You do realize that until very recently the German government didn't acknowledge to their own countrymen that the Holocaust happened? German schoolchildren definitely didn't learn about it.:rolleyes:

Classicide is something I heartily approve of, bourgeois class enemies deserve to be shot or worked to death for exploiting the workers.

And when the new exploited underclass tries to overthrow their cruel oppressors will you develop a sense of irony?

They where the lesser of two evils in that situation though. Or three evils I should say...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_12_Incident

Of course they were...

And when the new exploited underclass tries to overthrow their cruel oppressors will you develop a sense of irony?

No comrade, irony is not part of the historical dialectic.

And when the new exploited underclass tries to overthrow their cruel oppressors will you develop a sense of irony?
Probably not, AP is the only guy I know who could watch the peasant commune scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail and not only fail to get the joke, but fail to understand that there was a joke there in the first place.

No comrade, irony is not part of the historical dialectic.

You forgot to put the prerequisite terms "scientific iron laws" in front of the term historical dialectic. Bourgeois spy and class traitor!

You forgot to put the prerequisite terms "scientific iron laws" in front of the term historical dialectic. Bourgeois spy and class traitor!

Yuri! I thought I could trust you!

Certainly true for the period of communist party rule over mainland China (and today). However, I don't know all that much about the Chinese civil war, but I'm not so sure about then.

It was bad. Though I have to give credit to the Nationalists and most of their Client Warlords from restraining themselves in terms of the general populace. They may have committed some Atrocities, but they kept most of them aimed at enemy troops.

The Communists under Mao however.... Well, we have seen the precedent they started being applied to the believers over their who are killed for their freedom of conscience.

so, from worst to least
ChiComs
Japanese
Nationalists

Asking which WWII genocide was the worst is a little like lining up four people, shooting one in the chest twelve times, burning another with a blowtorch, cutting off another's arms and legs and watching them bleed, and infecting another with flesh-eating bacteria, and then waiting ten minutes and asking who's in the most pain, assuming they're all still alive.

Asking which WWII genocide was the worst is a little like lining up four people, shooting one in the chest twelve times, burning another with a blowtorch, cutting off another's arms and legs and watching them bleed, and infecting another with flesh-eating bacteria, and then waiting ten minutes and asking who's in the most pain, assuming they're all still alive.

The guy with the arms and legs chopped off.
Then the guy who got flesh eating bacteria.
Then the guy who got burned with a blowtorch.
Last the guy who got shot 12 times because he's already dead.
See easy?:)

The guy with the arms and legs chopped off.
Then the guy who got flesh eating bacteria.
Then the guy who got burned with a blowtorch.
Last the guy who got shot 12 times because he's already dead.
See easy?:)

I said, "assuming all four are still alive," numbnuts.

Besides, I could argue very easily that the flesh-eating bacteria is more painful, but what the hell are we proving? It's the moral equivalent of four people taking a big shit in a pristine stream. You can argue all day and night about whose shit smells worse or who had the greater volume of shit that polluted the stream; the score at the end of the day is that there's a nice stream with a lot of shit in it.

Besides, I could argue very easily that the flesh-eating bacteria is more painful, but what the hell are we proving? It's the moral equivalent of four people taking a big shit in a pristine stream. You can argue all day and night about whose shit smells worse or who had the greater volume of shit that polluted the stream; the score at the end of the day is that there's a nice stream with a lot of shit in it.

As opposed to all the rest of what happens on the forum which is....

[QUOTE]I said, "assuming all four are still alive," numbnuts.
How can you be alive after 12 gunshots to the chest? even if you were you'd be unconscious at the very least. Back to you.

Besides, I could argue very easily that the flesh-eating bacteria is more painful, but what the hell are we proving?
Our line of thought is what we prove.

It's the moral equivalent of four people taking a big shit in a pristine stream.
No it's clearly not, lot's of other people have posted here too, are their opinions now void because you say so? There's been lots of books written
about the holocaust by your line of reasoning there's no point in having them.

You can argue all day and night about whose shit smells worse or who had the greater volume of shit that polluted the stream; the score at the end of the day is that there's a nice stream with a lot of shit in it.
Actually the 'score' is that we try and divert the stream or purify it by making sure everyone knows about the shit in the stream.
This doesn't prove much, other than you don't like discussing the past genocides.
Your criticism is based on nothing.

How can you be alive after 12 gunshots to the chest? even if you were you'd be unconscious at the very least. Back to you.

OK, fine, ten of the shots hit in the shoulder and two landed in less lethal parts of the chest. The fact that you harp on the person being dead or not deflects from the point.

No it's clearly not, lot's of other people have posted here too, are their opinions now void because you say so? There's been lots of books written about the holocaust by your line of reasoning there's no point in having them.

No, that's not my point. Don't twist my words. Declaring a genocide bad is like declaring shooting someone 12 times and inflicting a motherlode of pain bad - it can be picked apart, analyzed, or just declared bad. However, comparing one genocide to the next is the equivalent of declaring one severe injury or attack worse than the next when the point is that all of the genocides/injuries/attacks are bad. Saying "Our people's genocide was worse than yours" is a pissing contest and accomplishes nothing in learning from genocide.

Actually the 'score' is that we try and divert the stream or purify it by making sure everyone knows about the shit in the stream.
This doesn't prove much, other than you don't like discussing the past genocides.
Your criticism is based on nothing.

No, it proves that I don't like comparing one to the other for the sake of determining whose was worse. My criticism is based on that and that alone.

As opposed to all the rest of what happens on the forum which is....

I suppose I can't argue with this logic.

A few million Bengalis died due to artificial famine induced by intentional malevolence by the British administration.

Most people don't even know about it. Because, only the Nazis, Japs and Commies are capable of evil...not the allies.

A few million Bengalis died due to artificial famine induced by intentional malevolence by the British administration.

Most people don't even know about it. Because, only the Nazis, Japs and Commies are capable of evil...not the allies.

Don't forget the Ottomans, although most people do anyway.

I did not know about this famine...can't really call it a "genocide," but not quite sure what the right term is for it. Whatever it is, Stalin was pretty good at it, too.

Because, only the Nazis, Japs and Commies are capable of evil...not the allies.

Yeah, we shouldn't let the word leak that America had internment camps. Or that it closed down all private schools that were taught in German for no good reason.

I'm also glad that few people know that the Allies were especially cruel and malevolent to the Lebensborn children... who's only crime was apparently being a bred Nazi, tried and true!

(This was written in a sarcastic tone, I think it is very beneficial that people know that even the good guys are sometimes just the 'not-so-bad-guys' as was the case in WWII)

Don't forget the Ottomans, although most people do anyway.

Thats because there was no Ottoman Empire after WWI, your a few decades late.

I did not know about this famine...can't really call it a "genocide," but not quite sure what the right term is for it. Whatever it is, Stalin was pretty good at it, too.

A genocide? No, but certainly it would fit the description for a holocaust because of it's malicious, and intentional nature.

EDIT: Perhaps comically enough, my 666th post should come for a thread like this....

The Communists under Mao however.... Well, we have seen the precedent they started being applied to the believers over their who are killed for their freedom of conscience.

But what about the Communists under Chen Duxiu?

You know, when the Communists were instructed by Moscow to join the KMT and to restrain their followers in the interest of the republican revolution?

Remember, when Chiang Kai-Shek was an honourary member of the Comintern executive and received material and logistical support from the USSR but still decided to purge the territories under his control of all union members or those suspected of being sympathtic to the left?

The Chinese Civil War had kicked off in the 20's, it's just that the Commies didn't realise it and were wiped out as a result. Mao being the main beneficiary of Stalin's and Bukharin's imbecility.

You do realize that until very recently the German government didn't acknowledge to their own countrymen that the Holocaust happened? German schoolchildren definitely didn't learn about it.

And most people under age 20 in China today have never heard of the Tiananmen Square massacre. The more things change...

I realize that; she didn't.

Many Jews got turned away too and many American POWs were killed in the Bataan Death March. My personal bias is also intruding here; as an Asian-American, I get very sick of the marginalization of Asia in US curriculum.

I agree that the two instances are probably equally horrible. My complaint is not so much that Nazi-Germany was worse or less bad than the Japanese atrocities, but that too few Westerners (Especially americans) acknowledge that they even happened.

I do have to agree with that. So very little is known about the war in the Pacific. I only know the things I do because my grandfather fought in the Pacific and was an MP after the war. My neighbor (may he rest in peace) also marched in the Bataan Death March, and if I hadn't heard about it from him I doubt I'd know a thing.

Interesting.

I had the distinct advantage of attending school in the following countries US , Canada, Brazil, Bolivia, Belgium.. and none of them get such a Lion share as US.

But my German friends say they get quite a bit too.

as far as US Schools are concerned, what share would you say the following get:

Vietnam War.
Korea War.

I think the word you were looking for is conflicts. There's no more war in the US, remember?