NationStates Jolt Archive

he was 107!
The man believed to have been Germany's last World War I veteran has died peacefully at the age of 107.

Erich Kaestner, who at 18 was sent to the Western Front but served only four months in the army, died in a Cologne nursing home, his son said.

The death on Sunday of Louis de Cazenave, France's second-last World War I veteran, made global headlines.

But in a country that keeps no record of its veterans, Kaestner's death on 1 January went largely unnoticed.

"That is the way history has developed," said Peter Kaestner, the soldier's son. "In Germany, in this respect, things are kept quiet - they're not a big deal."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7210346.stm

I think it was more impressive that he was married for 75 years. As an aside, I wonder how old his son that was quoted is. Much be getting close to 90 himself.
I like how people always 'die peacefully in their sleep'. Has anyone ever been reported as 'dying painfully and thrashing about in their sleep"?

anyway, bit of vaguely interesting news there.

Apparently, the US has like 2.

The 3rd died a couple weeks ago, IIRC.

I like how people always 'die peacefully in their sleep'. Has anyone ever been reported as 'dying painfully and thrashing about in their sleep"?
.

Well I suppose you could always go out and catch Ebola.

he was 107!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7210346.stm

I think it was more impressive that he was married for 75 years. As an aside, I wonder how old his son that was quoted is. Much be getting close to 90 himself.
I like how people always 'die peacefully in their sleep'. Has anyone ever been reported as 'dying painfully and thrashing about in their sleep"?

anyway, bit of vaguely interesting news there.

75 years married is pretty impressive, I agree. I mean, unless it was some kinda old-world thing where the marriage basically existed on paper only. But it's still cool.

Also, I've seen a few people die of 'natural causes,' aged 90+. They wiggle a lot as multiple organ failure sets in, but it's usually more or less peaceful, especially since the mind is long gone, I would say. :p

Edit: wait, I do remember seeing/hearing one die screaming. But hopefully that's not the norm.

Wow, the last WW1 veteran in germany died. Seems strange he died peacefully in his sleep...Maybe he's not dead at all, he put down a body double like Elvis did!:p

Also, I've seen a few people die of 'natural causes,' aged 90+. They wiggle a lot as multiple organ failure sets in, but it's usually more or less peaceful, especially since the mind is long gone, I would say. :p
usually if multiple organ failure is occurring, then the main reason they're dying 'peacefully in their sleep' is cause they've been totally pumped full of morphine.

usually if multiple organ failure is occurring, then the main reason they're dying 'peacefully in their sleep' is cause they've been totally pumped full of morphine.

Well, I'm assuming organ failure, since that's what I hear usually constitutes "natural" death. But I've seen a few go painlessly, of whatever they were dying of, at that age. :p It usually took a week or so, but the end was quiet.

Yeah, if I were Germany I also wouldn't be keeping a list of the deaths of every pointless act of aggression in the countries history.

Regretfully soon the living witnesses to a great piece of history will be gone. :(

Yeah, if I were Germany I also wouldn't be keeping a list of the deaths of every pointless act of aggression in the countries history.
Germany were just the last and most effective of a long list of European Powers that started Wars.
This guy was probably drafted, and fought for his country the same way the French and English did. If the last English, French, U.S., Australian, etc, dying veteran should be remembered so should he.

I hope that the Korean, Vietnam, and Gulf War vets get remembered, because by your standards, they'll be scrubbed from the history books too. Soldiers fight and die, they don't make policy. They should not be held responsible for "bad" wars. Only bad individual actions they may do. (Such as the May-Lai massacre)

I think it was more impressive that he was married for 75 years. As an aside, I wonder how old his son that was quoted is. Much be getting close to 90 himself.
Seeing how his wife apparently only died in 2003 or 2004 (at 102! That's one long-lived family...) the son can't really be older than in his late seventies, unless he was conceived out of wedlock.

Germany were just the last and most effective of a long list of European Powers that started Wars.
This guy was probably drafted, and fought for his country the same way the French and English did. If the last English, French, U.S., Australian, etc, dying veteran should be remembered so should he.

I hope that the Korean, Vietnam, and Gulf War vets get remembered, because by your standards, they'll be scrubbed from the history books too. Soldiers fight and die, they don't make policy. They should not be held responsible for "bad" wars. Only bad individual actions they may do. (Such as the May-Lai massacre)
Remembered for what exactly, passive and indifference submission to the nation? Sorry but I don't want to hear any of that 19th century nationalistic drivel, if anyone we should use any 'remembrance' not as an opportunity to talk about 'noble self-sacrifice' 'for the nation', but we should remember the pointless and meaningless slaughter that all wars cause, the horrible divisions between people through the perpetuation of reactionary nationalism.

We should spend any remembrance day questioning such wars, not glorifying pointless state-enforced murder.

Germany were just the last and most effective of a long list of European Powers that started Wars.
This guy was probably drafted, and fought for his country the same way the French and English did. If the last English, French, U.S., Australian, etc, dying veteran should be remembered so should he.

I hope that the Korean, Vietnam, and Gulf War vets get remembered, because by your standards, they'll be scrubbed from the history books too. Soldiers fight and die, they don't make policy. They should not be held responsible for "bad" wars. Only bad individual actions they may do. (Such as the May-Lai massacre)

I agree. This man was just as much a hero as the Allied forces veterans are/were. He fought for his country when there was a need for it, even though he fought for what most of us (myself included, so please don't call me a nazi) would call the evil side.

We should spend any remembrance day questioning such wars, not glorifying pointless state-enforced murder.

I don't think anyone is trying to glorify WWII (or any other war for that matter) and the killing of tens of millions soldiers and civilians, but rather remember them as people who fought for their country. Sure they fought for the wrong side, but that doesn't make them any less brave.

I don't think anyone is trying to glorify WWII and the killing of tens of millions soldiers, but rather remember them as people who fought for their country. Sure they fought for the wrong side, but that doesn't make them any less brave.
I disagree, if anything nations keep their people ignorant and impose a subjective monopoly on truth, so that their nation is superior just because you were born in it. If anything we should remember WWI as an example of how the nation can impose ignorance, blind duty in the quest to kill other ignorant blind soldiers whose nation has done the same to them. Nationalism is an artificial and dangerous inducer for man to murder his fellow man. We should not celebrate the 19th century nationalist times are 'golden days' or whatever, we should instead recognize how far we have progressed since then.

we should instead recognize how far we have progressed since then.

lol. Humans are exactly the same now as we were back then. Hell we are the same as we were when the pyrmids were young. Everyone hinks their group is better than the rest. To say that you don't is lying to yourself. Its not something you purposely do. Its hardwired into every human being to discrimnate on some level against everyone else.

That Andras guy is right. Alll the germans were criminals all of them. Even the ones who served and didnt kill anyone. They all were nazis every single one of them all of them. *sarcasm*

I rather like the fact that no one noticed. Until this thread was started, of course.

Sorta sends the right message, namely "meh".

75 years married is pretty impressive, I agree.
Old joke: a newspaper reporter is interviewing a couple on their 75th wedding anniversary, and the husband says "and we've never had an argument in all that time."
The reporter is amazed, and asks "how did you manage that?"
"Well, it was like this. We had a horse-drawn carriage to take us from the church to the reception, and as we were getting ready to get in, the horse jumped and kicked. Effie poked her finger right at the horse's eye, and said, That's one! The horse bit her. So Effie said, That's two!, pulled a pistol out of her purse and shot the horse. I said, Effie, I don't think you oughta done that. She poked her finger right at my eye and said, That's one!"

Old joke: a newspaper reporter is interviewing a couple on their 75th wedding anniversary, and the husband says "and we've never had an argument in all that time."
The reporter is amazed, and asks "how did you manage that?"
"Well, it was like this. We had a horse-drawn carriage to take us from the church to the reception, and as we were getting ready to get in, the horse jumped and kicked. Effie poked her finger right at the horse's eye, and said, That's one! The horse bit her. So Effie said, That's two!, pulled a pistol out of her purse and shot the horse. I said, Effie, I don't think you oughta done that. She poked her finger right at my eye and said, That's one!"

LOL! Ahh that's funny. :D

Finally! Now we can start repeating history in peace! :)

Rest in peace.

lol. Humans are exactly the same now as we were back then. Hell we are the same as we were when the pyrmids were young. Everyone hinks their group is better than the rest. To say that you don't is lying to yourself. Its not something you purposely do. Its hardwired into every human being to discrimnate on some level against everyone else.

Well you can think of yourself like that if you want, I certainly don't think of myself in that vein. I don't discriminate on a national basis because I ultimately recognize that nations are artificial barriers, I recognize that the only barriers between humans are material (ie class).

Well you can think of yourself like that if you want, I certainly don't think of myself in that vein. I don't discriminate on a national basis because I ultimately recognize that nations are artificial barriers, I recognize that the only barriers between humans are material (ie class).

Then you're an utter idiot.

Culture is the only true difference between people. How we choose to live our lives, what we look to as values worth having or worth denigrating, whom we choose to follow, or choose to lead - these choices, the cultures we espouse, are the true and valid differences within mankind.

And it is because of men like this that we now have so much greater tolerance for those differences. Oh, I do not ascribe to him any high-mindedness - but it is because of the willingness of him and people like him to place their lives on the line, to kill and be killed for what he valued, that we were finally forced to accept that these differences had to be tolerated, for the price of doing otherwise was simply beyond our paying.

Here is a man who acted out of the ideals of his culture, and all you can do is name him ignorant. Truly, you have no idea of what you speak.

As for class - mere ephemera, chngeable as the wind, without substance or reality. An illusion at best.

Apparently, the US has like 2.

The 3rd died a couple weeks ago, IIRC.
In my book, and I'm not trying to diminish anyone's contribution, but I think that when it comes to saying who the "last WW1 veteran of X country" is there should be a differentiation made between people who actually took part in WW1 and those who merely happened to have joined the army by the time the war ended.
I mean, of the three surviving British veterans, one fought in the trenches, one fought at Jutland but the third was only in training and never left Britain. It seems more important to me to mark the passing of the first two than the other if you're trying to use it as a remembrance of WW1 as a whole.

That's just my view on the subject.

Then you're an utter idiot.

Culture is the only true difference between people. How we choose to live our lives, what we look to as values worth having or worth denigrating, whom we choose to follow, or choose to lead - these choices, the cultures we espouse, are the true and valid differences within mankind.

And it is because of men like this that we now have so much greater tolerance for those differences. Oh, I do not ascribe to him any high-mindedness - but it is because of the willingness of him and people like him to place their lives on the line, to kill and be killed for what he valued, that we were finally forced to accept that these differences had to be tolerated, for the price of doing otherwise was simply beyond our paying.

Here is a man who acted out of the ideals of his culture, and all you can do is name him ignorant. Truly, you have no idea of what you speak.

As for class - mere ephemera, chngeable as the wind, without substance or reality. An illusion at best.

I said it then and I'll say it now, they died and fought for nothing, nothing but murder and division of mankind into petty divisions akin to the darkest days of humanities tribalism. To be willing to die for an ideal is not something to be proud of, any human when you limit critical thinking, give them a subjective nationalistic view of the world, will willingly murder and be killed without a word. This is not something to be proud of, merely a horrible trait of humanity best regarded to the dustbin of history along with incredibly short lifespans, common disease killing thousands, a dark stage of our past when ignorance was best explained through idealistic or metaphysical things, common superstitions and ignorant fanaticisms. These were simply a product of their time, the same as much silly nationalism existed in WWI to explain after the horrors of war, these things exist purely as an extension of the material conditions they reflect.

In reality, your 'true and valid differences within mankind' are nothing but a espousing of the petty sectarianism which has plagued humanities since our birth, culture is a subjective 'difference' which merely reflects the different material conditions of these peoples, nothing more, you are just trying to justify certain cultures as 'different' but in reality this is the same path as saying 'one is superior to another' or 'one is inferior to another'. By recognizing the sameness and brotherhood of humanity as one people, can we overcome the dark murderous tribalism of our past, the same tribalism you espouse in the name of 'culture'.

I simply espouse judging all history on the basis of material conditions, and that reality affects reality, not some strange meta psychical or spiritual force.

Humanity should be moving on towards unity, not exacerbation of 19th century drivel.

It's a shame. 107 years of insight lost...once all of the remaining veterans die, WWI and its lessons will be completely lost to us except as a historical fact.

It's a shame. 107 years of insight lost...once all of the remaining veterans die, WWI and its lessons will be completely lost to us except as a historical fact.
Although 'lest we forget' is apt, WWI should more properly remembered by 'never again'. I simply object to the sectarian way of looking back at the deaths as if they fought for something worthwhile, WWI was nothing but a large pissing contest between the imperialist powers, with millions of people as bargaining chips. If anything we should look back at it with disgust.

That sucks, RIP mein Herr :(

Although 'lest we forget' is apt, WWI should more properly remembered by 'never again'. I simply object to the sectarian way of looking back at the deaths as if they fought for something worthwhile, WWI was nothing but a large pissing contest between the imperialist powers, with millions of people as bargaining chips. If anything we should look back at it with disgust.

I've never met anyone who thought of WWI as being glorious. The whole calling it the great war was about the most sarcastic thing the brits could ever have done.

Although 'lest we forget' is apt, WWI should more properly remembered by 'never again'. I simply object to the sectarian way of looking back at the deaths as if they fought for something worthwhile, WWI was nothing but a large pissing contest between the imperialist powers, with millions of people as bargaining chips. If anything we should look back at it with disgust.

People did look back at it with disgust; many people at the time, and later, agreed that WWI really shattered the noble or "glorious" aspects of war with the horrors spawned by modern military technology. Of course, we didn't see the true extent of human depravity until WWII (in fact, it's still getting deeper even today), so in many ways WWI was just a disturbing foreshadowing of the horrors of modern warfare.

The terms "War to End All Wars" or "Great War" were meant to imply just how horrible that struggle was and the damage and death it inflicted on millions of people.

The whole calling it the great war was about the most sarcastic thing the brits could ever have done.

Er... you know, in the context of the Great War, Great means 'very big', not 'very good'. So, not really sarcastic, just accurate.

I've never met anyone who thought of WWI as being glorious. The whole calling it the great war was about the most sarcastic thing the brits could ever have done.

What? Epic fail I'm afraid

That guy lived for a very very long time, i wonder what you do when you're over 80 years old? Re-live old memories?
Ah the First World War, i lost 5 Great Uncles in that conflict (battle of the Somme i think), just a little reminder that wars will have long term effects as well as the short term ones.
What i'd like to see now is, should any MP suggest a war with another nation and it is approved for whatever reason, they should join the military themselves and go to fight in that conflict, then see how long the war would last.
RIP War veteran.

Canada has one left (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surviving_veterans_of_World_War_I#Living_in_Canada.E2.80.941_veteran)

The Canadian House of Commons has approved a state funeral for the last World War I veteran to have served in the Canadian forces to die. This is to honour the 600,000 Canadians that fought in that war.

I've never met anyone who thought of WWI as being glorious. The whole calling it the great war was about the most sarcastic thing the brits could ever have done.Well, most of the enthusiasts never saw fighting themselves. Rupert Brooke, for instance, perhaps the most idealistic war poet the British had died of an infected mosquito bite before his unit made it to the fun that was Gallipoli.

[QUOTE=Andaras;13402434] blah blah blahQUOTE]

What, the kind of unity that only worldwide communist revoultion can bring? :rolleyes:

Well you can think of yourself like that if you want, I certainly don't think of myself in that vein. I don't discriminate on a national basis because I ultimately recognize that nations are artificial barriers, I recognize that the only barriers between humans are material (ie class).

So your saying there is no difference between the way people think in different parts of the world?

So your saying there is no difference between the way people think in different parts of the world?
Of course their are, but these differences are only a reflection of the material conditions of those people specifically, generally the worst the conditions get the more fantastical, ignorant and blindly superstitious people will become.

My view is simply that we should look to the reality of material conditions to find the cause of problems and solutions.

Also Dododecapod, nice flight.

Of course their are, but these differences are only a reflection of the material conditions of those people specifically, generally the worst the conditions get the more fantastical, ignorant and blindly superstitious people will become.

My view is simply that we should look to the reality of material conditions to find the cause of problems and solutions.

Also Dododecapod, nice flight.

If you go to Japan and shake with your left hand it is taken as an insult. The differnces between nations of equal material status are very large. How does culture not divide us?

If you go to Japan and shake with your left hand it is taken as an insult. The differnces between nations of equal material status are very large. How does culture not divide us?

Of course, it's also very unlikely that millions of people aren't going to die in a war because of a cultural gaffe like that.

Of course, it's also very unlikely that millions of people aren't going to die in a war because of a cultural gaffe like that.

I realize that. The point was that he said the only thing that decides how people in different parts of the world think is material status. Which is disproven by my statement.

I realize that. The point was that he said the only thing that decides how people in different parts of the world think is material status. Which is disproven by my statement.

Oh yeah, definitely. Historical materialism has been pretty much dead since Marx thought of it.