NationStates Jolt Archive

Now that they have predicted it, I must believe them.

Sorry, but I'll wait until they can say for certain. They have lost what little confidence I had left in them this year.

Edit: Threadsteal, now people will have to click on the thread to see what it is about.:eek:

Good news as far as I'm concerned. I would also like to see Edwards beat Clinton in the hopes of stopping her campaign. America is ready for a female President, but let's be intelligent about this and not put Hillary in office.

(Just saw the first commercial aired in support of Barack Obama in my area! Yay!)

EDIT: Time-warp for the win!

Based on exit polls, CNN has already projected that Barack Obama has won South Carolina, with Edwards and Clinton vying for second place.

Some Results (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#SC)

I'm hoping Hillary loses to Edwards: this would give Barack a huge momentum boost going into Super Tuesday.

I read an article the nothing day that said that Edwards might have a better chance late in the race because many older Democrats worry about the ability of either a woman or a black man to get the necessary votes to be President.

I was listening to the radio on the way to my night class, and they talked about what Hillary will do if she does lose in South Carolina. Before the Primaries tonight, Hillary's Camp has been campaigning for Minorities vote. They did this with a purpose. They know that the majority of Minorities will vote for Obama, and once the vote breakdown shows that the majority did vote for Obama in South Carolina, Hillary will play the Race Card. She will basically turn this race into a race war. Her hope is that by doing this, she will guilt the Minorities into voting for her on Super Tuesday. Whether or not this will work, I don't know. I hope not.

Hillary is hoping that she'll get the Bigoted White Democratic Vote.

Good.

CNN has just projected a 2nd place finish for Billary.

Voters showing some sense, surely a sign of the end times.

Voters showing some sense, surely a sign of the end times.

Shhh, you'll jinx it!

CNN has just projected a 2nd place finish for Billary.

Damn. I'd rather Edwards make second.

Shhh, you'll jinx it!

No. No he won't, because such a thing does not exist.

Damn. I'd rather Edwards make second.

That might encourage him to stay in the race. He should drop out - I think he's taking votes only from Obama.

That might encourage him to stay in the race. He should drop out - I think he's taking votes only from Obama.

I agree.

Hillary Clinton is ALWAYS using feminists to gain support. Most of her support comes from feminists and UNIONS. Obama... omg... He CENTERS his campaign around "Freeing our people of this horrible cage of prejudice" oh please. I am all for passing laws that protect blacks, but I do not want a president that is so focused on equality (which REALLY isn't as much of an issue any more as he makes it seem) that they forget the war, poverty, the ECONOMY, and much much more. I mean there were thousands of people, when interviewed, that honestly said they were voting for him simply because he was black... what a disgrace. If we vote for either of those two we are voting for higher taxes, less babies, and more terrorism. John Edwards on the other hand is a Democrat I can at least STAND, however with his wife having cancer and all I think he will be distracted.

What Gravlen said. I like Edwards better than Clinton, but given the situation I hope he drops out quickly. Far better for Obama to get the nomination than Clinton.

I agree.

Agreed also. I think he should drop out (though I like him), and becomes Obama's running mate for the actual presidential debates assuming that Obama wins the democratic primaries. They'd make a good team, IMO.

That might encourage him to stay in the race. He should drop out - I think he's taking votes only from Obama.

Point.

Has he shown any sign which way he might endorse?

Good. This country still has hope. He pulled off a nice thumping.

Point.

Has he shown any sign which way he might endorse?

i dont understand people who are swayed by endorsements. why would i care who edwards (or anyone else) endorses? i can make up my own mind.


the governor of florida endorsed mccain today. why would anyone who wasnt already voting for mccain find that a good reason to vote for him?

i dont understand people who are swayed by endorsements. why would i care who edwards (or anyone else) endorses? i can make up my own mind.


the governor of florida endorsed mccain today. why would anyone who wasnt already voting for mccain find that a good reason to vote for him?

It matters because he will hand over all of the delegates he has to that candidate and may run for VP with that candidate.

I was listening to the radio on the way to my night class, and they talked about what Hillary will do if she does lose in South Carolina. Before the Primaries tonight, Hillary's Camp has been campaigning for Minorities vote. They did this with a purpose. They know that the majority of Minorities will vote for Obama, and once the vote breakdown shows that the majority did vote for Obama in South Carolina, Hillary will play the Race Card. She will basically turn this race into a race war. Her hope is that by doing this, she will guilt the Minorities into voting for her on Super Tuesday. Whether or not this will work, I don't know. I hope not.

Hillary is hoping that she'll get the Bigoted White Democratic Vote.

Oh, please. Like Obama hasn't been playing the race card for months. Half the time when I see him on TV, he's turned into the black man from the 'hood.

I won't vote for him. I don't care what color or sex a candidate is, but I will not vote for someone who's that two-faced.

Woot! Obama WHOOPED Clinton's ass. Best. Result. EVER!

I was listening to the radio on the way to my night class, and they talked about what Hillary will do if she does lose in South Carolina. Before the Primaries tonight, Hillary's Camp has been campaigning for Minorities vote. They did this with a purpose. They know that the majority of Minorities will vote for Obama, and once the vote breakdown shows that the majority did vote for Obama in South Carolina, Hillary will play the Race Card. She will basically turn this race into a race war. Her hope is that by doing this, she will guilt the Minorities into voting for her on Super Tuesday. Whether or not this will work, I don't know. I hope not.

Hillary is hoping that she'll get the Bigoted White Democratic Vote.
Yeah? And what radio station was advancing such nonsense? Who were the commentators?

What Gravlen said. I like Edwards better than Clinton, but given the situation I hope he drops out quickly. Far better for Obama to get the nomination than Clinton.

Not to many people disagree.

A 55-27% thrumming. OUCH!! Well done Obama. Keep it man and I just might vote for ya.

Oh, please. Like Obama hasn't been playing the race card for months. Half the time when I see him on TV, he's turned into the black man from the 'hood.

I won't vote for him. I don't care what color or sex a candidate is, but I will not vote for someone who's that two-faced.

He hasn't at all. He knows that if he does so, he won't get voted for. It's the media and Hillary that have called him a "black candidate". He hasn't mentioned it one bit.

He hasn't at all. He knows that if he does so, he won't get voted for. It's the media and Hillary that have called him a "black candidate". He hasn't mentioned it one bit.

Not in any clippings I've ever heard from anyways.

He hasn't at all. He knows that if he does so, he won't get voted for. It's the media and Hillary that have called him a "black candidate". He hasn't mentioned it one bit.

Exactly. Obama is running a much different race than that of Sharpton and Jessie J. He doesn't seem to make much of race and is not running as the "black candidate."

It's the media and Hillary that have called him a "black candidate".
Can you provide proof where Hillary has called Obama a "black candidate"?

That might encourage him to stay in the race. He should drop out - I think he's taking votes only from Obama.

Indeed he is, but he seems to be angling

Can you provide proof where Hillary has called Obama a "black candidate"?

She's not foolish enough to say those exact words herself, but that is certainly what she's been doing in code" and by proxy, mostly via Bill. And her doing so seems to have bitten her back.

Indeed he is, but he seems to be angling



She's not foolish enough to say those exact words herself, but that is certainly what she's been doing in code" and by proxy, mostly via Bill. And her doing so seems to have bitten her back.

Nor is he foolish enough to say them. They both are being very careful in their wording. It is all measured.

She's not foolish enough to say those exact words herself, but that is certainly what she's been doing in code" and by proxy, mostly via Bill. And her doing so seems to have bitten her back.

I don't know, Hillary is a very cleaver Politician, I think in the next few days, she'll claim that the minorities has alienated her and voted for Obama because he's black (she won't use the exact words but will hint at it) which will most likely bring out the Bigoted White Democrats. I think she may win Florida as a result of this.

Nor is he foolish enough to say them. They both are being very careful in their wording. It is all measured.

Indeed. It's things like the Jesse Jackson comment.

Someone mentioned race...

Racial divide

Mr Obama's victory was based on his overwhelming support among the black community, which voted 78%% in his favour, while 24% of white Democrats backed his presidential bid.

In South Carolina, African-Americans made up 53% of Democratic primary voters.

In contrast, Senator Clinton and John Edwards split the white vote, with each gaining just under 40%.

Mrs Clinton's slender margin of victory over Mr Edwards was provided by the 19% of blacks who voted for her. Only 3% of the black vote went to Mr Edwards.

Among black voters, Mrs Clinton had more appeal to older voters and women, but the effect was not as marked as among white voters.

And in another measure of racial polarisation, the quarter of voters who said they thought the country was not ready for a black president gave Mrs Clinton a majority of votes, while 77% of those who believed the country was definitely ready for a black president voted for Mr Obama.

Age divide

There was clear evidence of a generational divide, with Mr Obama winning 70% of the votes of those between 25 and 29, but only 51% of those between 50 and 65.

Mrs Clinton, in fact, won more votes - 40% - among retired people over 65 than Mr Obama.

And among older white voters, over 60, Mr Obama only received 15% of the vote.

In contrast, Mr Obama ran most strongly among new voters who had never voted before.

Gender split

Among white voters, women and men voted quite differently.

John Edwards had a lead among male voters, by 45% to 28% for Mrs Clinton, with 27% of white men voting for Mr Obama.

However, among white women, Hillary Clinton was ahead, with 42% of their votes, compared to 36% for Mr Edwards and 22% for Mr Obama.

Mrs Clinton also did equally well among married women and unmarried women. In the past, she has sometimes received more voters from single women.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7211535.stm

She's not foolish enough to say those exact words herself, but that is certainly what she's been doing in code" and by proxy, mostly via Bill. And her doing so seems to have bitten her back.
Can you give any examples of this "code" or by "proxy" calling of Obama a "black candidate", by Hillary or even Bill?

Oh, please. Like Obama hasn't been playing the race card for months. Half the time when I see him on TV, he's turned into the black man from the 'hood.So because Obama doesn't act white enough for you all the time, he's "playing the race card"? Please. Not to mention that he IS a black man from the hood.

I won't vote for him. I don't care what color or sex a candidate is, but I will not vote for someone who's that two-faced.
I think you meant to say:I will not vote for someone who's that BLACK.

Can you provide proof where Hillary has called Obama a "black candidate"?

Well it was reported on the TV that when Billy boy heard that Obama won South Carolina, he stated that so did Reverand Jackson.

Well said Bill. Just kill your wife's nominee.

Well it was reported on the TV that when Billy boy heard that Obama won South Carolina, he stated that so did Reverand Jackson.
So, he was just stating a fact?

Well said Bill. Just kill your wife's nominee.
Huh????

And neither of those comments answered my question that you responded to.

So because Obama doesn't act white enough for you all the time, he's "playing the race card"? Please. Not to mention that he IS a black man from the hood.


I think you meant to say:
It is against the rules to edit another person's quote. I suggest you change it.

So, he was just stating a fact?

Its a fact uh? Prove it.

Huh????

And neither of those comments answered my question that you responded to.

Jesse Jackson does not represent all black people. duh!

Its a fact uh? Prove it.

Jesse Louis Jackson is an American politician, civil rights activist, and Baptist minister. He was a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination in 1984 and 1988.

Jackson was the second African-American to mount a nationwide campaign for the Presidency. He garnered 3.5 million votes during the primaries, third behind candidates Hart and Mondale. He won in Virginia, South Carolina, and Louisiana, and split Mississippi, where there were two separate contests for Democratic delegates. Through the process, Jackson helped confirm the black electorate's importance to the Democratic Party in the South at the time.
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/houpub/00068/hpub-00068.html

So, he was just stating a fact?

Hmmm, what parallels can you draw between those two candidates? could it be that Bill is saying that he only won because he was black?

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/houpub/00068/hpub-00068.html

Last time I checked, Jesse Jackson is not running for President so please tell me how this is a win for Jesse jackson?

It looks like Edwards is not going to be dropping out of the race anytime soon.

Edwards also looked ahead to the next contests.

"Now the three of us move on to February 5, where millions of Americans will cast their vote and help shape the future of this party and help shape the future of America," he said. Watch Edwards rally supporters »

"Our campaign from the very beginning has been about one central thing, and that is to give voice to the millions of Americans who have absolutely no voice in this democracy."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/26/sc.primary/index.html

Hillary is a very cleaver Politician

*snickers*

So, he was just stating a fact?

can you explain why it would make sense to mention that fact now? surely you don't think clinton was just partaking in "random fact day" celebrations, and that he might as well have said 'liquid water is wet', do you?

Can you give any examples of this "code" or by "proxy" calling of Obama a "black candidate", by Hillary or even Bill?

I did so before you posted this question.

can you explain why it would make sense to mention that fact now? surely you don't think clinton was just partaking in "random fact day" celebrations, and that he might as well have said 'liquid water is wet', do you?

Exactly so.

CH, I have to say, I'm quite dissapointed in what appears to be a very rabid defense of Billary on your part. I didn't excpect it of you... :(

CH, I have to say, I'm quite dissapointed in what appears to be a very rabid defense of Billary on your part. I didn't excpect it of you... :(

That makes 2 of us.

*snickers*
Well, she is. She manipulates people very well, and has many solid strategies.

Don't mistake cold-hearted power-grabbing for a lack of intelligence. That would be the key to the downfall of the Hamilay campaign.

Last time I checked, Jesse Jackson is not running for President so please tell me how this is a win for Jesse jackson?

Hm? Did anybody claim it to be? Not to my knowledge...


Can you provide proof where Hillary has called Obama a "black candidate"?Well it was reported on the TV that when Billy boy heard that Obama won South Carolina, he stated that so did Reverand Jackson.So, he was just stating a fact?
And you asked for proof. Well, as you can see, Jackson also won South Carolina back in the day - that's a fact.

Clinton is trying to paint Obama as "Just another Rev. Jackson" and is trying to scare the white electorate that way - but nobody is claiming that Jackson is involved directly in any of this, as far as I can see.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/Gravlen/NSG/the_more_you_know_224x.jpg

Well, she is. She manipulates people very well, and has many solid strategies.

Don't mistake cold-hearted power-grabbing for a lack of intelligence. That would be the key to the downfall of the Hamilay campaign.

Hillary is a very cleaver Politician

*snickers*

Bold for emphasis. Yes, I know it was unnecessary, but the typo amused me.

It looks like Edwards is not going to be dropping out of the race anytime soon.



http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/26/sc.primary/index.html

This sounds bad at first.

But look through the voting analysis of the South Carolina primary. Note how the vote was split. Obama did not lose votes to Edwards. Hillary did.

Edwards knows at this point he is not viable as the POTUS, so he is going to try to get the VPOTUS nomination, like he did last election. And in order to do that, he will need to support one candidate or the other.

And he sees which way the wind is blowing. He knows that Obama is more likely to win than Hillary, and he also probably knows that Obama is the better candidate. So he is intentionally staying in the race not to try to win, but to spoil Hillary's chances and seal the deal for Obama.

Mark my words. He's going to steal key numbers of delegates from the various primaries on Super Tuesday, then bow out and give them all to Obama.

Hamilay: ...oh.

Clinton is trying to paint Obama as "Just another Rev. Jackson" and is trying to scare the white electorate that way - but nobody is claiming that Jackson is involved directly in any of this, as far as I can see.

Except that Jesse Jackson sticks his fat nose into everything and anything and turns things into things that its not. He's an annoying pile of shit. Obama on the other hand is more intelligent than Jesse Jackson and does his best not to turn things into things that its not supposed to be.

Except that Jesse Jackson sticks his fat nose into everything and anything and turns things into things that its not. He's an annoying pile of shit. Obama on the other hand is more intelligent than Jesse Jackson and does his best not to turn things into things that its not supposed to be.

Yes - but just you wait: When the muslim Obama HUSSEIN Jackson installs Sharia and self-destructs America from within in a whirlwind of socialist islamo-facist civil liberties, the blacks will strike back against the former slave owners and turn everybody into gay taxpayers.



...or something. Don't ask.
But in the end, Bill Clinton's invocation of Rev. Jackson is designed to make people fear Obama in the same way and for the same reasons, even if Obama doesn't share his policies, his mannerisms, his intelligence, all of his values, or anything at all really. It's all tactics, and it works to some degree. Unfortunately.

Its a fact uh? Prove it.
Gravlen did that...thanks Gravlen.

Jesse Jackson does not represent all black people. duh!
I think your reading comprehension is on the blink?

My question was:

Can you provide proof where Hillary has called Obama a "black candidate"?

And since then you have gone off on an inexplicable tangent.

Can you provide proof where Hillary has called Obama a "black candidate"?
To my knowledge she hasn't. Her surrogates, however, frequently allude to Obama's race, and when Hillary is pressed, she tends to support her supporters rather than denounce them.

http://clintonattacksobama.pbwiki.com/Incident+Tracker

http://www.jordanmills.net/Pictures/Race%20Card%20black.jpg

Tongass, is it bad that I know the original Magic card used in that image was the rare Sixth Edition black creature Necrosavant?

Member's of the Clinton campaign have called Obama the "black candidate". Hillary herself has not.

To my knowledge she hasn't. Her surrogates, however, frequently allude to Obama's race, and when Hillary is pressed, she tends to support her supporters rather than denounce them.

http://clintonattacksobama.pbwiki.com/Incident+Tracker
Your link above, is questionable at best. It is a very biased accounting by various contributors (unedited Wiki style), and is inappropriately named "clintonattacksobama".

Depending on the posters to this unedited Wiki, the comments made by the posters themselves could also be racially motivated?

It is no wonder that US politics is a quagmire.

CanuckHeaven, may I ask why you are always so defensive of Hillary Clinton?

CanuckHeaven, may I ask why you are always so defensive of Hillary Clinton?

Because CH has a love fatuation with the Clintons.

Because CH has a love fatuation with the Clintons.

I didn't ask you.

I didn't ask you.

So :D

CanuckHeaven, may I ask why you are always so defensive of Hillary Clinton?
1. I want the Democrats to win the Presidency.

2. Hillary has the best chance to beat the Republican propaganda machine.

3. Obama would be a great selection as Hillary's VP.

4. Obama/Edwards would not fare as well as Kerry/Edwards.

1. I want the Democrats to win the Presidency.

That goes without saying.

2. Hillary has the best chance to beat the Republican propaganda machine.

Even though she is the same breed as the republican candidates?

3. Obama would be a great selection as Hillary's VP.

Meh.

4. Obama/Edwards would not fare as well as Kerry/Edwards.

Edwards is an idiot.

Even though she is the same breed as the republican candidates?

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em?

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em?

There is that and that is why Obama is all that more inviting to vote for.

2. Hillary has the best chance to beat the Republican propaganda machine.


Let me guess, this is what the "Polls" say? The same polls that had Kerry winning, as well as Gore? *laughs*

Yea, well I'm sorry but if Clinton gets the Nomination, the Republican will win in '08. She is the most polarizing figure in Politics today!

Let me guess, this is what the "Polls" say? The same polls that had Kerry winning, as well as Gore? *laughs*

Apparently.

Yea, well I'm sorry but if Clinton gets the Nomination, the Republican will win in '08. She is the most polarizing figure in Politics today!

Agreed.

Let me guess, this is what the "Polls" say? The same polls that had Kerry winning, as well as Gore? *laughs*

You realize that in 2004 the results were within the poll's margin of error, and that the polls in 2000 predicted more people would vote for gore, and they?

I am unsure why you appear so dismissive of the poll results, when they quite accurately predicted what would happen. They accurated predicted the results of the popular vote in both 2000 and 2004 within the margin of error.

So yes, considering those polls were in fact accurate, I think using them in this case as a guidepost is a perfectly sensible thing to do. I find it very amusing when people dismiss polls when they in fact quite accurately predict what would happen. Both 2000 and 2004 results fell quite comfortably within the poll margin of error.

You realize that in 2004 the results were within the poll's margin of error, and that the polls in 2000 predicted more people would vote for gore, and they?

I am unsure why you appear so dismissive of the poll results, when they quite accurately predicted what would happen. They accurated predicted the results of the popular vote in both 2000 and 2004 within the margin of error.

So yes, considering those polls were in fact accurate, I think using them in this case as a guidepost is a perfectly sensible thing to do. I find it very amusing when people dismiss polls when they in fact quite accurately predict what would happen. Both 2000 and 2004 results fell quite comfortably within the poll margin of error.

Because as the famous Mark Twain once said, there are three kind of lies.

Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistic. Polls are Statistic, and people will interpreted the data anyway they can to make it fit their view of the world. I guarantee you that if you show 10 people the same data, you'll get ten different answers.

Because as the famous Mark Twain once said, there are three kind of lies.

Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistic. Polls are Statistic, and people will interpreted the data anyway they can to make it fit their view of the world. I guarantee you that if you show 10 people the same data, you'll get ten different answers.

which, you know, doesn't in any way answer the question I asked you. I will especially mention that when trying to prove your point, quoting a noted satirist is probably not the best way to do it.

I'll ask you again, considering that although you dismissed polls as being "inaccurate" in 2000 and 2004, the results were in fact within the margin of error, meaning the polls were actually accurate, within that margin of error, what is wrong with using polls as a benchmark?

Go on, explain it to me. And do try to use your own words, not someone elses.

Go on, explain it to me. And do try to use your own words, not someone elses.
* chuckles :D

This is how the election will play out:

In the crucial Florida primary, Mitt Romney will narrowly defeat John McCain. Guliani, coming in fourth after Ron Paul, will quit the race and put his full support behind McCain. In the following Republican debate, however, McCain and Romney will both lose their tempers and come to blows. Before they are pulled apart, Romney will be dead from a savage neck bite and McCain will suffer a rage induced stroke. This will leave Ron Paul as the front runner. Sensing an opportunity, Fred Thompson will re-enter the race but will again be forced out when photos are leaked showing him in a naked frolic with Richard Belzer. Ron Paul will narrowly win the nomination over Huckabee when it is proven that Huckabee is legally insane.

On the Democratic side, sex scandals will continue with the full disclosure of Clinton's post-presidential exploits. Secret video surveillance of both Clintons was conducted since 2002 under provisions of the Patriot Act. High-Res videos of these affairs by both Bill & Hillary will make their way onto the internet causing Hillary's national campaign to collapse and spontaneous chain vomitting will spread as an epidemic across the world.

Obama will easily defeat Edwards, but the campaign will remain cordial ending in a VP nod for Edwards.

In the general election, Ron Paul will refuse to name a running mate. He will protest that having a vice-president is a useless expenditure of tax-payer money. In the final month of the election, Paul will campaign in the nude, citing the lack of constitutional basis for clothing.

Obama will win the general election with 84% of the popular vote.

That version of events involves a lot more nudity than I'm used to in a presidential election. Well done! :D

This is how the election will play out:

In the crucial Florida primary, Mitt Romney will narrowly defeat John McCain. Guliani, coming in fourth after Ron Paul, will quit the race and put his full support behind McCain. In the following Republican debate, however, McCain and Romney will both lose their tempers and come to blows. Before they are pulled apart, Romney will be dead from a savage neck bite and McCain will suffer a rage induced stroke. This will leave Ron Paul as the front runner. Sensing an opportunity, Fred Thompson will re-enter the race but will again be forced out when photos are leaked showing him in a naked frolic with Richard Belzer. Ron Paul will narrowly win the nomination over Huckabee when it is proven that Huckabee is legally insane.

On the Democratic side, sex scandals will continue with the full disclosure of Clinton's post-presidential exploits. Secret video surveillance of both Clintons was conducted since 2002 under provisions of the Patriot Act. High-Res videos of these affairs by both Bill & Hillary will make their way onto the internet causing Hillary's national campaign to collapse and spontaneous chain vomitting will spread as an epidemic across the world.

Obama will easily defeat Edwards, but the campaign will remain cordial ending in a VP nod for Edwards.

In the general election, Ron Paul will refuse to name a running mate. He will protest that having a vice-president is a useless expenditure of tax-payer money. In the final month of the election, Paul will campaign in the nude, citing the lack of constitutional basis for clothing.

Obama will win the general election with 84% of the popular vote.
Huckabee is legally insane?


* hands Gartref a mirror..... :D

Your link above, is questionable at best. It is a very biased accounting by various contributors (unedited Wiki style), and is inappropriately named "clintonattacksobama".Biased or not, verifiable facts are referenced.

1. I want the Democrats to win the Presidency.Even if Democratic principles are compromised in the process? (see the Nevada caucus incidents and Florida/Michigan shoehorning)

2. Hillary has the best chance to beat the Republican propaganda machine.Are you kidding? The Republican propoganda machine was specifically designed for Hillary Clinton, and Hillary Clinton is probably the most hated politician in America (next to GW and Cheney) for that very reason! Hillary Clinton is an easy home field game for them.

3. Obama would be a great selection as Hillary's VP.I don't think he would accept.

4. Obama/Edwards would not fare as well as Kerry/Edwards.Remember why Kerry lost the election? He was a "flip flop". He was "for the war before he was against the war". And he put audiences to sleep. Hillary Clinton is the same thing, but with a mess of ready-made scandals for the Karl Rove crowd to cycle through.

Is it supposed to be a good thing for Ted Kennedy to endorse you? I would think not.

This is how the election will play out:

In the crucial Florida primary, Mitt Romney will narrowly defeat John McCain. Guliani, coming in fourth after Ron Paul, will quit the race and put his full support behind McCain. In the following Republican debate, however, McCain and Romney will both lose their tempers and come to blows. Before they are pulled apart, Romney will be dead from a savage neck bite and McCain will suffer a rage induced stroke. This will leave Ron Paul as the front runner. Sensing an opportunity, Fred Thompson will re-enter the race but will again be forced out when photos are leaked showing him in a naked frolic with Richard Belzer. Ron Paul will narrowly win the nomination over Huckabee when it is proven that Huckabee is legally insane.

On the Democratic side, sex scandals will continue with the full disclosure of Clinton's post-presidential exploits. Secret video surveillance of both Clintons was conducted since 2002 under provisions of the Patriot Act. High-Res videos of these affairs by both Bill & Hillary will make their way onto the internet causing Hillary's national campaign to collapse and spontaneous chain vomitting will spread as an epidemic across the world.

Obama will easily defeat Edwards, but the campaign will remain cordial ending in a VP nod for Edwards.

In the general election, Ron Paul will refuse to name a running mate. He will protest that having a vice-president is a useless expenditure of tax-payer money. In the final month of the election, Paul will campaign in the nude, citing the lack of constitutional basis for clothing.

Obama will win the general election with 84% of the popular vote.

L)OOL Highly entertaining. :)

1. I want the Democrats to win the Presidency.

2. Hillary has the best chance to beat the Republican propaganda machine.

3. Obama would be a great selection as Hillary's VP.

4. Obama/Edwards would not fare as well as Kerry/Edwards.

1. I want the person who'll do the best job, especially of undoing the disasters of both the Bush and Clinton admins, to win.

2. Not at all.

3. She's not going to offer. And he'd be an utter fool to piss away his image by taking it if she did.

4. Indeed they would not fare as well - they would fare much better. The only GOP candidate who would stand a snowball's chance in hell of beating Obama right now is McCain, and he'll go down as Iraq goes to hell overa the summer because the surge is ending..

I would think not.

We pretty much knew that about you already, it comes as no surprise.

Is it supposed to be a good thing for Ted Kennedy to endorse you? I would think not.

It is good when good old Lifegaurd Ted does so for the Democratic Party's primary season. :)

I wouldn't pay any significant attention to conservatives like Tongass or Eric, the so-called 'popular hate' against Hillary is overblown and largely concentrated to a minority of hardcore right-winger nuts.

I wouldn't pay any significant attention to conservatives like Tongass or Eric, the so-called 'popular hate' against Hillary is overblown and largely concentrated to a minority of hardcore right-winger nuts.

I "hate" Hillary, and it's been a while since I've been called a conservative, let alone a "hard-core right winger nut". Issues-wise, I think Hillary is way too centrist. She's weak on civil liberties, in bed with the corporations, is very hawkish on foreign relations, hasn't shown any real leadership on substantial issues, and will compromise any democratic principle if she reaps personal political gain from it.

As a person who's actually spent a substantial amount of time around people of all political persuasions while growing up, I can personally attest to the fact that there is a great deal of hatred for her out there, from progressives who see her as Bush-lite to almost every conservative, who see her as a socialist mother-in-law nightmare figure.

I wouldn't pay any significant attention to conservatives like Tongass or Eric, the so-called 'popular hate' against Hillary is overblown and largely concentrated to a minority of hardcore right-winger nuts.

There are many democrats who do not like Hillary either and they are hardly right-wing.

There is alot of hate for Clinton because:

Republicans hate her for being the left wing authoritarian who thinks she knows what's best for everyone and will socialize the nation.

Democrats hate her for voting for everything Bush has proposed, only then later to oppose it when she figured out it was unpopular and bad for her political career.

Obama has a much better chance to bring the Democrats a win over the Republicans. If it's Clinton, who knows....the unthinkable might happen..the Democrats may hand this election to the Republicans.

Oh wait..that's not unthinkable...04 anyone?

There are many democrats who do not like Hillary either and they are hardly right-wing.

Indeed so, Team Billary is an equal opprotunity figure of dislike.

To give a few examples, both my parents, life long Dems, are ABC. My brother and his wife, also life long Dems, are ABC. Many independents, like myself, have a strong aversion to Billary.

Last Friday night I met up with my good drinking buddies for the first time since coming back from my holiday. Among those present were independents, GOPers, hardcore Dems, and Libertarians. It was quite interesting to find that we ALL agreed on who we wanted - Obama - and who we absolutely did not want - Billary. I have very rarely seen such unanimous across the board agreement.

Indeed so, Team Billary is an equal opprotunity figure of dislike.

To give a few examples, both my parents, life long Dems, are ABC. My brother and his wife, also life long Dems, are ABC. Many independents, like myself, have a strong aversion to Billary.

Last Friday night I met up with my good drinking buddies for the first time since coming back from my holiday. Among those present were independents, GOPers, hardcore Dems, and Libertarians. It was quite interesting to find that we ALL agreed on who we wanted - Obama - and who we absolutely did not want - Billary. I have very rarely seen such unanimous across the board agreement.
Yet the polls do not reflect this great hatred for Hillary that you keep referring to?

Yet the polls do not reflect this great hatred for Hillary that you keep referring to?

There're a few things that could be going on there, but it all basically comes down to a strong possibility that either the raw polling data or the manner in which it is being massaaged simply is not accuracte in this case.

Yet the polls do not reflect this great hatred for Hillary that you keep referring to?

she has about 50-50 favorability ratings. but her unfavorables contain large amounts of both completely unhinged hatred from the right and more rational disgust from the left and from liberty-lovers, while her favorable is much softer. sure, she's no bush or cheney, but not many people are.

she has about 50-50 favorability ratings. but her unfavorables contain large amounts of both completely unhinged hatred from the right and more rational disgust from the left and from liberty-lovers, while her favorable is much softer. sure, she's no bush or cheney, but not many people are.

Exactly so. This is one reason I suspect the polling numbers - if I see two contradictory sets of polling data, and observed data leans in the direction of one data set, I'll go with the observed data.

Oh, and also, don't discount the age effect on the Dems come election day. Obama is energising young voters who are historically a low voting group. If the nod goes to Hillary, they'll see that as "old folks are playing disgusting old politics as usual", and I expect they'll stay away in even larger numbers than usual.

Exactly so. This is one reason I suspect the polling numbers - if I see two contradictory sets of polling data, and observed data leans in the direction of one data set, I'll go with the observed data.

Oh, and also, don't discount the age effect on the Dems come election day. Obama is energising young voters who are historically a low voting group. If the nod goes to Hillary, they'll see that as "old folks are playing disgusting old politics as usual", and I expect they'll stay away in even larger numbers than usual.

I can't believe that people react that way. If there's a problem, staying AWAY from the vote is REALLY going to help things! :rolleyes:

OK, so we're fewer in number, but it does not mean our votes count any less. A vote is still a vote. Though you wouldn't know it the way politicians act the world over...

I can't believe that people react that way. If there's a problem, staying AWAY from the vote is REALLY going to help things! :rolleyes:

OK, so we're fewer in number, but it does not mean our votes count any less. A vote is still a vote. Though you wouldn't know it the way politicians act the world over...

It happens every election. The 18-29 age group is one of, if not the, lowest voting demographics in the US, and has been for a long time. Obama draws this group in historically large numbers. With him out, there'd be no draw.

There're a few things that could be going on there, but it all basically comes down to a strong possibility that either the raw polling data or the manner in which it is being massaaged simply is not accuracte in this case.
Could it be that your dislike for Hillary is blocking your objectivity?

That would be my guess.

I was listening to the radio on the way to my night class, and they talked about what Hillary will do if she does lose in South Carolina. Before the Primaries tonight, Hillary's Camp has been campaigning for Minorities vote. They did this with a purpose. They know that the majority of Minorities will vote for Obama, and once the vote breakdown shows that the majority did vote for Obama in South Carolina, Hillary will play the Race Card. She will basically turn this race into a race war. Her hope is that by doing this, she will guilt the Minorities into voting for her on Super Tuesday. Whether or not this will work, I don't know. I hope not.

Hillary is hoping that she'll get the Bigoted White Democratic Vote.

This is utter bullshit. It is insulting to Democratic voters and to minotity voters. It is a sad attempt at marginalizing Obama and villifying Clinton.

This will be a heated race, but you won't see the kind of race-baiting tactics common in other races.

Could it be that your dislike for Hillary is blocking your objectivity?

That would be my guess.

This may seem to you to be a cognitive bias, but I do not think so. But, as with all judgement calls, there is a possibility.

Let us rexamine the evidence.

First there are the showing Clinton's chances against McCain as mixed at best.

Then, there are the polls showing she has overall unfavorable ratings.

Seeing as these taken together make for an unclear and contradictory picture, but one that leans against her.


And finally there is my observation of a fairly broad spectrum of people over the time in which she has been in the public eye, starting with a wide variety of media. It also includes back home in the US while I've been on vacations over a period of many years in different states. It includes the expat community here in Japan (I'll note here that expat communities generally lean leftish). And it includes online in places like here. as far as I can tell you are her sole defender here - someone else might have popped in a one off that I missed - on a predominately lefty board, which should tell you something.

By nature, and as you observed above, observational data is suspect unless backed up by something. So, to give you another concrete example, and one that should show no cognitive bias on my part, I did a simple comparisson. A search on google comes up with 7290 hits for "anybody but clinton". In comparisson, "anybody but obama" gets a mere 68. That's more than 100 times the antipathy.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22anybody+but+clinton&btnG=Google+Search
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22anybody+but+obama&btnG=Search

Just for comparisson, "anybody but bush" got 53,700 hits.
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22anybody+but+bush&btnG=Search

So, given the fuzzy polling data, the obserevational data, and Hillary's history, I'll say my reading of the matter is not significantly cognitively biased.

By nature, and as you observed above, observational data is suspect unless backed up by something. So, to give you another concrete example, and one that should show no cognitive bias on my part, I did a simple comparisson. A search on google comes up with 7290 hits for "anybody but clinton". In comparisson, "anybody but obama" gets a mere 68. That's more than 100 times the antipathy.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22anybody+but+clinton&btnG=Google+Search
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22anybody+but+obama&btnG=Search

Just for comparisson, "anybody but bush" got 53,700 hits.
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22anybody+but+bush&btnG=Search

So, given the fuzzy polling data, the obserevational data, and Hillary's history, I'll say my reading of the matter is not significantly cognitively biased.
You know, that is strange. I just did a Google search for ""anybody but clinton", and got:

Results 1 - 10 of about 7,720 for "anybody but clinton"

So of course I did an "anybody but obama" search and got:

Results 1 - 10 of about 20,300 for "anybody but obama"

Certainly not scientific and certainly nothing to support an argument, especially since there is more than one famous Clinton?

You know, that is strange. I just did a Google search for ""anybody but clinton", and got:

Results 1 - 10 of about 7,720 for "anybody but clinton"

So of course I did an "anybody but obama" search and got:

Results 1 - 10 of about 20,300 for "anybody but obama"

Certainly not scientific and certainly nothing to support an argument, especially since there is more than one famous Clinton?

Odd. The link to the search I posted has gon done by one. Lets's measure the link you posted... Ooops. No link.

I didn't say it was scientific or stand by itself.

Let me ask you this - who else here believes your suposition that Obama cannot win where Clinton can. And what is your evidence beyond polls which are mixed?