NationStates Jolt Archive

Marx claimed it was a dictatorship of the proletariat, Bakunin also claimed it vindicated his anarcho-communist ideology, and ever since this very short lived political entity has been the cause of much discussion in leftist circles concerning the practise of theory, and how a socialist state should look. I won't put my input in straight away, but just wondering what are NSG'ers thoughts on the Paris Commune of 1871.

Marx claimed it was a dictatorship of the proletariat, Bakunin also claimed it vindicated his anarcho-communist ideology, and ever since this very short lived political entity has been the cause of much discussion in leftist circles concerning the practise of theory, and how a socialist state should look. I won't put my input in straight away, but just wondering what are NSG'ers thoughts on the Paris Commune of 1871.

Having now read up on it I would say that it did not last long enough for any conclusions to be drawn. Marx felt that, if it had continued, it would have been forced to be socialist despite the clear delineations between its supporters.

Yet I'd almost guarantee that it would have devolved into petty power struggles, persecutions and failure.

No real judgment can be made but if you can show me a revolution where the pigs did not become farmers then I'd grant you historical precedent.

Regretfully it didn't last long enough to tell.

Meh. The Commune didn't last long enough to give a judgement about it being a good socialist model, nor did it have to rule the production structures of a whole country. So it's meh as model...

still...

Vive la Commune, ça va sans dire!

Marx claimed it was a dictatorship of the proletariat, Bakunin also claimed it vindicated his anarcho-communist ideology, and ever since this very short lived political entity has been the cause of much discussion in leftist circles concerning the practise of theory, and how a socialist state should look. I won't put my input in straight away, but just wondering what are NSG'ers thoughts on the Paris Commune of 1871.

Primarily borne of the "Drunk frat boy with ugly girl home alone at night" treatment that the corrupt and incompetent Napoleon III received at the hand's of Bismarck's Prussians, the national shame is what drove the creation of the Commune, and it was hardly a purely proletariat organization. Rather, it enjoyed a fairly broad base of support from groups including much of the Parisian Petit-Bourgeoisie, simply because it was able to instill a degree of order, not to mention that it was a siege government.

Oh, and let's not forget that it was in existence for, like, two months.

Primarily borne of the "Drunk frat boy with ugly girl home alone at night" treatment that the corrupt and incompetent Napoleon III received at the hand's of Bismarck's Prussians, the national shame is what drove the creation of the Commune, and it was hardly a purely proletariat organization. Rather, it enjoyed a fairly broad base of support from groups including much of the Parisian Petit-Bourgeoisie, simply because it was able to instill a degree of order, not to mention that it was a siege government.

Oh, and let's not forget that it was in existence for, like, two months.
And it's not as if the word Commune means the same thing in French as it does in English. In French, it's just what they call municipal government anyway, without any connnotatrions with hippies in squats. How boring.

It certainly was a good start. If I recall, both Marx and Bakunin were not wholly uncritical of the Commune de Paris, but both felt it was a giant leap in the right direction. A greater level of worker self-management and less political delegation would have been desirable.

It certainly was a good start. If I recall, both Marx and Bakunin were not wholly uncritical of the Commune de Paris, but both felt it was a giant leap in the right direction. A greater level of worker self-management and less political delegation would have been desirable.

Yet it received it's 'mandate from the huge dissatisfaction with Thiers and looking at the laws they managed to implement, they seem to be direct responses to Thiers initiatives rather than a pre-planned socialist state.

It's hard to call it socialist when it could have turned into many things, a democracy, a local city-run government, a federal state, a dictatorship...

Both in inception and finish, it's simply to hard to place a label on it.

And it's not as if the word Commune means the same thing in French as it does in English. In French, it's just what they call municipal government anyway, without any connnotatrions with hippies in squats. How boring.

Quite, and it's much the same in many other Romantic languages, such as Italian, where it is much the same thing. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comune) What I as an American would call a municipality, an Italian would refer to as a Comune.

well it was certainly miles ahead for its time in terms of things like womens rights however it was never set out or at any point really aimed to be Communist nor Anarchist

at the very least it was rather kinder than the French revolution

well it was certainly miles ahead for its time in terms of things like womens rights however it was never set out or at any point really aimed to be Communist nor Anarchist

at the very least it was rather kinder than the French revolution

There's a feminist critique of the commune actually, Jacobean ideals and etc., - I'll try find again.

EDIT: I can't find it right now as I don't have my search history on this computer, it was along the lines of women had no actual role within the commune and that the feminist social movements ran alongside it, not with it - this is highly debateable in that I skimmed it this afternoon and my memory is not to be relied on.

Quite, and it's much the same in many other Romantic languages, such as Italian, where it is much the same thing. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comune) What I as an American would call a municipality, an Italian would refer to as a Comune.
Exactly, although interestingly, I can't find a word for the concept in British English, having no real equivalent here.

Exactly, although interestingly, I can't find a word for the concept in British English, having no real equivalent here.

'Corporation', in its original, non-commercial sense, perhaps?

(As in references to "The Mayor and Corporation of ____", or to "Corporation dustcarts"...)

Primarily borne of the "Drunk frat boy with ugly girl home alone at night" treatment that the corrupt and incompetent Napoleon III received at the hand's of Bismarck's Prussians, the national shame is what drove the creation of the Commune, and it was hardly a purely proletariat organization. Rather, it enjoyed a fairly broad base of support from groups including much of the Parisian Petit-Bourgeoisie, simply because it was able to instill a degree of order, not to mention that it was a siege government.

Oh, and let's not forget that it was in existence for, like, two months.

/end thread

Having now read up on it I would say that it did not last long enough for any conclusions to be drawn. Marx felt that, if it had continued, it would have been forced to be socialist despite the clear delineations between its supporters.

Yet I'd almost guarantee that it would have devolved into petty power struggles, persecutions and failure.

No real judgment can be made but if you can show me a revolution where the pigs did not become farmers then I'd grant you historical precedent.


I second this post.

Quite, and it's much the same in many other Romantic languages, such as Italian, where it is much the same thing. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comune) What I as an American would call a municipality, an Italian would refer to as a Comune.

I confirm. We've been using the term "comune" since about 900 years to mean "a city or town not run by a feudal lord". See Friedrich I "Barbarossa" vs the Lombard League (the original one, not the contemporary one!).

Exactly, although interestingly, I can't find a word for the concept in British English, having no real equivalent here.
District.

District.
Yeah, but they don't just cover one town/city, and don't exist everywhere.