NationStates Jolt Archive

An 81-year old Chilean man who was thought to be dead woke up at his wake and asked for a glass of water from stunned relatives.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080120/od_afp/chilefuneraloffbeat)

SANTIAGO (AFP) - An 81-year old man in the small Chilean village of Angol shocked his grieving relatives by waking up in his coffin at his own wake, local media said on Sunday.

When Feliberto Carrasco's family members discovered his body limp and cold, they were convinced that the octogenarian's hour had come, so they immediately called a funeral home, not a doctor.

Carrasco was dressed in his finest suit for the wake, and his relatives gathered to bid him a final farewell.

"I couldn't believe it. I thought I must be mistaken, and I shut my eyes," Carrasco's nephew Pedro told the daily Ultimas Noticias.

"When I opened them again, my uncle was looking at me. I started to cry and ran to get something to open up the coffin to get him out."

The man who "rose from the dead" said he was not in any pain, and only asked for a glass of water.

Local radio also surprised listeners by announcing a correction to Carrasco's death announcement, saying the news had been premature.

An 81-year old Chilean man who was thought to be dead woke up at his wake and asked for a glass of water from stunned relatives.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080120/od_afp/chilefuneraloffbeat)

...Why didn't they just take his pulse? Or check if hes breathing?

...Why didn't they just take his pulse? Or check if hes breathing?

HUSH! Your reasonable actions and suspicion has no room here!

HUSH! Your reasonable actions and suspicion has no room here!

It was a small Chilean village. Odds are they had no idea how to check a pulse, and if he was unconscious his breathing would probably have been quite minimal.

It was a small Chilean village. Odds are they had no idea how to check a pulse, and if he was unconscious his breathing would probably have been quite minimal.

Yea, but you'd think the Country would have at least ONE Doctor in it.

Yea, but you'd think the Country would have at least ONE Doctor in it.

When Feliberto Carrasco's family members discovered his body limp and cold, they were convinced that the octogenarian's hour had come, so they immediately called a funeral home, not a doctor.

You might want to read the article more carefully.

Yea, but you'd think the Country would have at least ONE Doctor in it.

Maybe so, but they didn't call a doctor.

If the old guy had any sense of humor he wouldn't have asked for a glass of water but for "Brains... brains!" :D

I think the old man should have said, "oh no not again".

That's fairly awesome.

"The news of my death have been greatly exaggerated"

Nice story.

If I were him I would have faked a personality change for a few days.

whats more weird is he asked for water...who the hell drinks water?!? :p

whats more weird is he asked for water...who the hell drinks water?!? :p

I do!

I do!

:eek: it appears I have established contact with the year +(-?)4000BC

It was a small Chilean village. Odds are they had no idea how to check a pulse, and if he was unconscious his breathing would probably have been quite minimal.

I love the subtlety of your racism. They are rural Chileans so they must be ignorant of even the most basic medical practices?

I love the subtlety of your racism. They are rural Chileans so they must be ignorant of even the most basic medical practices?

That's not remotely racist, especially since 95% of Chileans are classified as white or white amerindian. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ci.html

Besides, you'd be surprised at how many Americans don't know how to check for a pulse.

You might want to read the article more carefully.

Good thing embalming isn't popular. Or cremation.

That's not remotely racist, especially since 95% of Chileans are classified as white or white amerindian. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ci.html

Besides, you'd be surprised at how many Americans don't know how to check for a pulse.

maybe he hates white people?

That's not remotely racist, especially since 95% of Chileans are classified as white or white amerindian. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ci.html

Besides, you'd be surprised at how many Americans don't know how to check for a pulse.

Kyronea obviously believes that rural Chileans do not know how to check for a pulse because they are rural Chileans. 'Racism' may not be the best word for his ignorant bigotry, but it is close enough to communicate the idea that I wish to convey.

Kyronea obviously believes that rural Chileans do not know how to check for a pulse because they are rural Chileans. 'Racism' may not be the best word for his ignorant bigotry, but it is close enough to communicate the idea that I wish to convey.

The fact remains that they were about to bury a live relative without making sure that he was actually dead. The fact also remains that they were rural Chileans, and not urban blacks, or outer spacemen.

Obviously, a case of racism and ignorance. Imagine trying to come up with a plausible explanation for why they might have come up with such a dumb move!

It is not at ALL obvious that Kyronea thinks that they did this BECAUSE they are rural Chileans.

Obviously, the funeral home used also did not know enough to make sure he was dead. Does that mean all funeral directors are unable to tell the difference between live people and dead people?

Sounds like plenty of dumbass maneuvers to go around here.

Kyronea obviously believes that rural Chileans do not know how to check for a pulse because they are rural Chileans. 'Racism' may not be the best word for his ignorant bigotry, but it is close enough to communicate the idea that I wish to convey.

Actually according to what i was taught at first aid, you don't need to bother checking for a pulse on an unconscious person, if they're breathing their heart must be functioning to move blood around.
Breathing always first and vital,
Bleeding if breathing is okay,
Bones last as you don't have x-ray vision you're not qualified to say what is broken and what isn't but you can make sure the person does not move badly damaged parts or as little as possible,
You can check for the pulse to monitor how the person is doing over an extended period waiting for medical support to arrive, e.g. erratic, weak or strong.
Erm oh i appear to have missed the point, actually the pulse isn't very easy to find on most people and it differs from person to person, i mean i struggle to find it on my wrist, but the Chileans should have known to check his breathing.
Oh and by the way i'm not a medical practitioner, this is from my knowledge of first aid about half a year ago.

whats more weird is he asked for water...who the hell drinks water?!? :p

You make a good point. Were he truly Chilean he would have demanded pisco. Clearly he DID die, and a demon has taken over his body in a bid for world domination.

And only you were perceptive enough to uncover the nefarious plot.

I love the subtlety of your racism. They are rural Chileans so they must be ignorant of even the most basic medical practices?

Well Chile IS a third world country. Clearly the education system in Chile is substandard. That's so obvious it hardly needs stating. We are ranked first, and therefore even the stupidest citizen of Canada is smarter than the smartest citizen of Chile.

Duh.

whats more weird is he asked for water...who the hell drinks water?!? :p

I do, about 2 liters a day.

Actually according to what i was taught at first aid, you don't need to bother checking for a pulse on an unconscious person, if they're breathing their heart must be functioning to move blood around.


You should look for signs of pulse, first ask them if they are ok, if they don't react you shake them (unless it's probable they broke their neck) and if they don't react to that you listen for about 10 seconds if they aren't breathing then you start to reanimate.
You used to take the pulse, but because that's quite hard they don't teach that to non-professionals anymore because it lost to much time.

It is not at ALL obvious that Kyronea thinks that they did this BECAUSE they are rural Chileans.

Really?

It was a small Chilean village. Odds are they had no idea how to check a pulse, and if he was unconscious his breathing would probably have been quite minimal.

First of all he makes the assumption that they do not know how to read a pulse. Why does he make this assumption? There is nothing to suggest such ignorance in the article. The only possible explanation he provides is that they live in a small Chilean village. So you are correct that it is not obvious. It is subtle. Like I said in my first post.

Obviously, the funeral home used also did not know enough to make sure he was dead. Does that mean all funeral directors are unable to tell the difference between live people and dead people?

Don't ask me. I'm not the ones making generalisations based on the behaviour of the few.

So if I pointed out that some guy happening on the side of the road in rural America found a supposedly dead person and was mistaken, that would be racist too?No, since you're American as well, it would be an incident of self-loathing :p

So if I pointed out that some guy happening on the side of the road in rural America found a supposedly dead person and was mistaken, that would be racist too?
Hmmm, let's see.
It was a rural American. Odds are he had no idea how to check a pulse, and if he was unconscious his breathing would probably have been quite minimal.

Yeah, I think that's as offensive...stating it as fairly obvious that a person living in the rural US is completely uneducated. Or would you be fine with that assumption, big city girl? :P

So if I pointed out that some guy happening on the side of the road in rural America found a supposedly dead person and was mistaken, that would be racist too?

*pops out of casket* AIEEE!!! Invisible Bees!!! *waves arms frantically and runs around the buffet table* Invisible bees stinging me everywhere! They're in every orifice!! AIEEE!!! AIEE!!! Santa Maria!! Invisible Bees!!! AIEEE!!! *collapses*

Really?



First of all he makes the assumption that they do not know how to read a pulse. Why does he make this assumption? There is nothing to suggest such ignorance in the article. The only possible explanation he provides is that they live in a small Chilean village. So you are correct that it is not obvious. It is subtle. Like I said in my first post.



Don't ask me. I'm not the ones making generalisations based on the behaviour of the few.

Do you really expect people in a remote village of a third-world country to know how to check a pulse? Even educated people can't always do it here. It's common sense, not racism.

Also, checking breathing is not completely reliable. It could be very faint and they assume it's dead.

Do you really expect people in a remote village of a third-world country to know how to check a pulse? Even educated people can't always do it here. It's common sense, not racism.

I expect that they would be as intelligent as every other human being I met. I'm weird that way. I would not assume that they were somehow more ignorant simply because of their place of birth or where they ended up living.

Also, checking breathing is not completely reliable. It could be very faint and they assume it's dead.

Yes, that is possible. That merely implies that the Chileans in question could have made the same mistake any other person could have made, which is what I am arguing. Thank you.

I love the subtlety of your racism. They are rural Chileans so they must be ignorant of even the most basic medical practices?

...I would be more outraged if you really were Grave_n_idol like I thought you were at first.

That's not what I meant. The standards of education in Chile are quite low; it has nothing to do with their ethnicity and everything to do with the economic and political situation in the country.

And perhaps I did make too hasty an assumption, but it was one that I think would prove valid in at least this case.

...I would be more outraged if you really were Grave_n_idol like I thought you were at first.

That's not what I meant. The standards of education in Chile are quite low; it has nothing to do with their ethnicity and everything to do with the economic and political situation in the country.

And perhaps I did make too hasty an assumption, but it was one that I think would prove valid in at least this case.

Really? Do you have any source showing that medical education in Chile is so abysmal that the average rural Chilean does not even know how to check for a pulse?

Or is that another assumption? Perhaps you should stop wondering which of your assumptions are valid, and start questioning why you have them. Critical thinking will take you farther than unsupported assumptions about Chileans.

I think I'm losing brain cells just by reading this thread...
*head jerks back*
Oh shit, I just lost a dozen.

Really? Do you have any source showing that medical education in Chile is so abysmal that the average rural Chilean does not even know how to check for a pulse?

Or is that another assumption? Perhaps you should stop wondering which of your assumptions are valid, and start questioning why you have them. Critical thinking will take you farther than unsupported assumptions about Chileans.

Checking for a pulse is not as common knowledge as you think it is. If I had never been taught that by pushing my fingers deep enough into a certain area on my neck that I could feel my heartbeat, it probably would've taken me years to figure it out, assuming I would've ever figured it out at all.

And Kyronea is clearly thinking critically. The people almost buried their living grandfather! That alone is indicative of their medical knowledge.

Really? Do you have any source showing that medical education in Chile is so abysmal that the average rural Chilean does not even know how to check for a pulse?

Or is that another assumption? Perhaps you should stop wondering which of your assumptions are valid, and start questioning why you have them. Critical thinking will take you farther than unsupported assumptions about Chileans.

I am thinking critically about this. Fact: They found him unconscious and feeling cold. Fact: They then decided he was dead and called a funeral service.

These facts suggest that they either do not have the medical knowledge to check for a pulse or other signs that would have told them he was alive despite the unconsciousness and cold skin, or that it simply did not occur to them. I would be more willing to believe the former because of what I am generally aware of when it comes to Chile's economic and educational status.

None of this has anything to do with assuming they couldn't know it. Of course they could. What I'm questioning is whether they could have a source for the knowledge in the first place. Again, it's a small RURAL Chilean village. Rural means a lot more in countries like Chile than it does in countries like Canada or the United States.

Checking for a pulse is not as common knowledge as you think it is. If I had never been taught that by pushing my fingers deep enough into a certain area on my neck that I could feel my heartbeat, it probably would've taken me years to figure it out, assuming I would've ever figured it out at all.

And Kyronea is clearly thinking critically. The people almost buried their living grandfather! That alone is indicative of their medical knowledge.

No. Neither Kyronea nor you are thinking critically. Did you not read that he was dressed in his best clothes and lying in a casket? That would suggest that they moved his body to the funeral home, where they disrobed him and dressed him again. Then they moved him again, to the casket. We can safely assume that during this process, his body remained limp and cold and he remained unconscious. Now, if he did not react through all of this, would you assume he was dead or alive?

Coupled with all the information in this thread about how difficult it can be to check for pulse and breathing, and we can see how anyone might think he was dead. Yet Kyronea thinks it is because they are rural Chileans and therefore ignorant of medical practice.

That alone is indicative of his and your critical thinking skills.

No. Neither Kyronea nor you are thinking critically. Did you not read that he was dressed in his best clothes and lying in a casket? That would suggest that they moved his body to the funeral home, where they disrobed him and dressed him again. Then they moved him again, to the casket. We can safely assume that during this process, his body remained limp and cold and he remained unconscious. Now, if he did not react through all of this, would you assume he was dead or alive?

Coupled with all the information in this thread about how difficult it can be to check for pulse and breathing, and we can see how anyone might think he was dead. Yet Kyronea thinks it is because they are rural Chileans and therefore ignorant of medical practice.

That alone is indicative of his and your critical thinking skills.

Well, I suppose you've a point there. I didn't read the rest of the thread before replying to what you said, and I made my initial post long before any of that information was posted. I wasn't aware it was actually that hard to check breathing and pulse. I've never found it that difficult whenever I check someone, but obviously personal experience is trumped by fact here.

I expect that they would be as intelligent as every other human being I met. I'm weird that way. I would not assume that they were somehow more ignorant simply because of their place of birth or where they ended up living.
Since when are humans instinctually capable of checking pulses, breathing, etc.

Also, this same type of thing occurred in Europe in the Middle Ages, giving rise to the phrases "graveyard shift" and "saved by the bell". If a person nowadays is buried or declared dead without a doctor, that strongly implies that they have quite limited resources. The article also doesn't mention whether or not they are indigenous and practice traditional medicine that would not detect unconsciousness.

No. Neither Kyronea nor you are thinking critically. Did you not read that he was dressed in his best clothes and lying in a casket? That would suggest that they moved his body to the funeral home, where they disrobed him and dressed him again. Then they moved him again, to the casket. We can safely assume that during this process, his body remained limp and cold and he remained unconscious. Now, if he did not react through all of this, would you assume he was dead or alive?

Coupled with all the information in this thread about how difficult it can be to check for pulse and breathing, and we can see how anyone might think he was dead. Yet Kyronea thinks it is because they are rural Chileans and therefore ignorant of medical practice.

That alone is indicative of his and your critical thinking skills.

But, it more advanced countries, and probably in Santiago, we would call an emergency number or bring the person to the hospital first.

Since when are humans instinctually capable of checking pulses, breathing, etc.

Who's talking about instincts? I merely stated that I assume that all people to be equally intelligent until facts prove otherwise. My post did not say or imply that checking for pulse is instinctive.

Also, this same type of thing occurred in Europe in the Middle Ages, giving rise to the phrases "graveyard shift" and "saved by the bell". If a person nowadays is buried or declared dead without a doctor, that strongly implies that they have quite limited resources. The article also doesn't mention whether or not they are indigenous and practice traditional medicine that would not detect unconsciousness.

I don't care what it implies about their resources. Their resources tell us nothing about how intelligent they are.

You are correct that it doesn't say anything about indigenous medicine. It is you who are supplying the assumptions that they used traditional medicine and that it doesn't work as well as western medicine.

But, it more advanced countries, and probably in Santiago, we would call an emergency number or bring the person to the hospital first.

Are you implying that these Chileans are more ignorant than us because they didn't do what we would do in a similar situation?

Alleluia! It's a miracle!!!

Jeez, what a timing to wake up! Any time later...

I wonder how many people wake up in a coffin around the world (yes, including those "just sleeping" in them)

I would not assume that they were somehow more ignorant simply because of their place of birth or where they ended up living.


Yes that is a strange belief. Remember ignorance =/= lack of intelligence.

This is the whole purpose why a "wake" is held in the first place, to see if the supposedly dead person will "wake", as has been known to happen from time to time in cultures all over the world; although in hot climates, traditional cultures did not hold any "wake", preferring to get the body into the ground immediately.

Yes that is a strange belief. Remember ignorance =/= lack of intelligence.

Of course it doesn't. I certainly wasn't trying to imply that.

What I was suggesting was that the general level of economic viability in Chile combined with the fact that it is a rural village means they might not have as much medical knowledge. MIGHT NOT. SUGGESTING.

In NO way was I even remotely implying that all Chileans are stupid.

Do you really expect people in a remote village of a third-world country to know how to check a pulse? Even educated people can't always do it here. It's common sense, not racism. Please read what you've written once more.

You have assumed that 'people in a remote village of a third-world country' are uneducated.

Not common sense. Bigotry, based on a complete lack of information as to the level of education to be found in rural villages of Chile.

That's not what I meant. The standards of education in Chile are quite low; it has nothing to do with their ethnicity and everything to do with the economic and political situation in the country.

And you know this how?

And you know this how?

I...

I don't, actually. I'm stupidly assuming this because Chile is a poor nation. Perhaps I should actually check what I'm saying.

Of course it doesn't. I certainly wasn't trying to imply that.

What I was suggesting was that the general level of economic viability in Chile combined with the fact that it is a rural village means they might not have as much medical knowledge. MIGHT NOT. SUGGESTING.

In NO way was I even remotely implying that all Chileans are stupid.

No. You've stated that Chileans are less educated, based on 'your knowlege of the educational system'...although now you've dumped that and just stuck to economics.

You have baldly stated that the education system in Chile is worse than it is in the US. You have baldly stated that you know this to be true.

Since you know this to be true, you must have information to support your claims. Please present it. I'd like a comparative analysis of the curriculum in both countries please.

I...

I don't, actually. I'm stupidly assuming this because Chile is a poor nation. Perhaps I should actually check what I'm saying.

Feel that? It's a little ray of light you've just let into your mind.

Read the OP, change the location. Would that change your perception of the level of education available to the people involved in this situation? On what would that change be based?

I quite honestly know absolutely nothing about the level of education available in Sao Tome. I can not, without a shred of information, read a story like this, situated in Sao Tome, and suddenly know what that level of education is.

Alright, for fuck's sake, I get it! I'm wrong! I was making assumptions because all I really know of Chile is that's it's a somewhat poor nation! You can stop badgering me now!

Jesus Christ...is that what Cornelieu feels like all the time? We've got to be nicer to that guy...

Of course it doesn't. I certainly wasn't trying to imply that.

What I was suggesting was that the general level of economic viability in Chile combined with the fact that it is a rural village means they might not have as much medical knowledge. MIGHT NOT. SUGGESTING.

In NO way was I even remotely implying that all Chileans are stupid.

You were implying that they were so medically ignorant as to not know how to check someone's pulse because they were from a small village in Chile. And you did it without any idea as to the level of medical knowledge in Chile.

EDIT: Forget it. See my next post.

Of course it doesn't. I certainly wasn't trying to imply that.

What I was suggesting was that the general level of economic viability in Chile combined with the fact that it is a rural village means they might not have as much medical knowledge. MIGHT NOT. SUGGESTING.

In NO way was I even remotely implying that all Chileans are stupid.

Woah woah woah woah, I wasn't referring to your comment as being strange but actually GoG's :p.

Alright, for fuck's sake, I get it! I'm wrong! I was making assumptions because all I really know of Chile is that's it's a somewhat poor nation! You can stop badgering me now!

Jesus Christ...is that what Cornelieu feels like all the time? We've got to be nicer to that guy...

You give up to easily dude! I'm rooting for you! Gooooooo Kyronea!

No, no, no. How am I supposed to stay mad when you admit to a mistake? That's not how we do things here. Now I'm going to have to admit that you, you're not...ugh.

It was nice of you to admit it. That was pretty cool of you.

Of course I admit a mistake. I try to do that whenever I can.

I apologize if I did imply racism somehow even if it wasn't my intention. I need to better educate myself before making assumptions. Or just not make assumptions at all.

Alright, for fuck's sake, I get it! I'm wrong! I was making assumptions because all I really know of Chile is that's it's a somewhat poor nation! You can stop badgering me now!

Jesus Christ...is that what Cornelieu feels like all the time? We've got to be nicer to that guy...

No you don't. He never admits he might not be right.

You still don't know if the education system in Chile is any good or not in comparison to your own...don't forget that and swing to the other side of things btw.

But just stopping and going 'hmmm...wait...I don't actually know that'... is an awesome start.

I...

I don't, actually. I'm stupidly assuming this because Chile is a poor nation. Perhaps I should actually check what I'm saying.

No, no, no. How am I supposed to stay mad when you admit to a mistake? That's not how we do things here. Now I'm going to have to admit that you, you're not...ugh.

It was nice of you to admit it. That was pretty cool of you.

No you don't. He never admits he might not be right.

You still don't know if the education system in Chile is any good or not in comparison to your own...don't forget that and swing to the other side of things btw.

But just stopping and going 'hmmm...wait...I don't actually know that'... is an awesome start.

True, especially since we actually don't know what the family did to check the status of the eighty-one year old's life, as the article is not that specific.

Hmmm, let's see.


Yeah, I think that's as offensive...stating it as fairly obvious that a person living in the rural US is completely uneducated. Or would you be fine with that assumption, big city girl? :P

How many people do you think absolutely know how and where to find a pulse, rural, big city, or not, without training?

How many people do you think absolutely know how and where to find a pulse, rural, big city, or not, without training?

I think that pretty much sums everything up. You Canadians need to get your PC crap and shove it someplace else.

Please read what you've written once more.

You have assumed that 'people in a remote village of a third-world country' are uneducated.

Not common sense. Bigotry, based on a complete lack of information as to the level of education to be found in rural villages of Chile.
How many remote villages in third-world countries have educated people in them? If there are any, they've left to work in the cities.

Read the OP, change the location. Would that change your perception of the level of education available to the people involved in this situation? On what would that change be based?
Except this might not occur anywhere that isn't a remote village in a third world country. Everywhere else has more educated people and doctors or a thing like this wouldn't have happened.

There it is: the mere fact that this happened proves they are uneducated, doctorless villagers. Anywhere else, it wouldn't have even happened.

*checks thread's pulse*
It is my humble opinion that this thread died on the first page. LG's post on the second page revived it long enough for a sip of water, but it was promptly shoved back into the coffin.

Whether or not people in rural areas of Chile are widely known for their finesse and mastery of pulse-checkery, the people who thought the man was dead either didn't, didn't think to do it, or wanted to believe he was dead to cash in on his collection of medical manuscripts and books signed by Nobel Prize Winning pulse-checkers.

How many people do you think absolutely know how and where to find a pulse, rural, big city, or not, without training?

You could slice open an artery and count spurts. :)

You could slice open an artery and count spurts. :)

Go back to your coffin and invisible bees LG. Nobody's paying attention. :p

Go back to your coffin and invisible bees LG. Nobody's paying attention. :p

They will. Oh yes! Soon, they all will. :)

How many people do you think absolutely know how and where to find a pulse, rural, big city, or not, without training?
Everyone who has a driver's license over here should be able to do that.

Sadly, that's only the theory.:(