NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been piddling around with a comical post-apocalyptic scenario for a while now, and its led me to the desire to base the rag-tag bunch of survivors on an aircraft carrier. But, for the sake of some sci-fi hardness, I'd like to maintain relatively realistic figures as to how many people are on board.

So how many people do you need to keep an aircraft carrier running? A full complement of 5000 - 6000 won't really be necessary, as the world's been overrun by hordes of zombies and conventional warfare has all but ceased. No need to maintain an air wing and the thousand or so that fly or maintain the craft (although one or two V-22 Ospreys will likely be maintained and launched, along with two or three helicopters). I've fallen in love with the idea of using the new CVN 21 class, given that it slashes the complement down to about 4600, making it easier for less to maintain the thing.

Does anyone have an idea what size a skeleton crew for an aircraft carrier (potentially the new CVN 21) would have to be?

I don't know. However, I think LG served on a carrier - he might know.

i'd say about 2000. But you'll need some people that know how to maintain a nuclear reactor.

The CVN 21 class has a planned full crew complement of 4660. From what I've managed to glean in two minutes or so, approximately 1000 or so will be air crew, and ship crew and maintenance will make up the further 3660. This will be divided into 3 shifts, meaning 1220 folks are required to run the ship at full capacity for an 8 hour shift.

5500 is a good number to use for a full crew. About 3200-3300 crew and about 2200-2300 air wing.

*nod*

Edit: The air wing isn't necessary to sail the ship so that's potentially expendable right there. the standard crew does include a few pilots for helos etc. Beyond that, I would say that the ship could probably operate for a while on half crew. When the ship is in a foreign port, one third of the crew is always on board. They expect to be able to leave port if necessary on a moment's notice with that plus perhaps 25% of the shore leave recalled. That's about half the crew. *nod*

5500 is a good number to use. About 3200-3300 crew and about 2200-2300 air wing.

*nod*

Yeah, but remember, they don't need a full air wing. The idea is to use the aircraft carrier as a platform for survival.

But I think the carrier should have some escorts...a few destroyers, perhaps, and maybe a heavy cruiser or two.

This will be divided into 3 shifts, meaning 1220 folks are required to run the ship at full capacity for an 8 hour shift.

It's been many, many years since I've been in the Navy, so I would appreciate it if you could tell me when they started using 3 shifts while at sea? It used to be 12 hour shifts plus watch and probably is still that way especially if you are at war.

It's been many, many years since I've been in the Navy, so I would appreciate it if you could tell me when they started using 3 shifts while at sea? It used to be 12 hour shifts plus watch and probably is still that way especially if you are at war.

Hey, I'm hardly an expert. I did 2 minutes research tops. Well thanks for the input.

It's been many, many years since I've been in the Navy, so I would appreciate it if you could tell me when they started using 3 shifts while at sea? It used to be 12 hour shifts plus watch and probably is still that way especially if you are at war.

Depends on the ship and the crew. At sea, duty shifts are usually dividend into 2. Sometimes 3. Especially on a carrier. In port, it's almost always 3. Sometimes 4. Again, this is for a carrier. It does vary.

I have some more detailed questions to refine the estimate made by Lunatic Goofballs.

In your story, does the carrier actually need to move under it's own power? ...or is it adrift? How many people do you really need aboard a carrier that isn't planned to move? What are the consequences of not having enough people to operate the ship? What capabilities would you have to do without?

What is the logistics situation? You describe the story as "post-apocalyptic", so I'm assuming that all industrial society has collapsed. What quantities of uranium, oil, and food would be needed for it's operation? What are the consequences of running out of uranium or oil?

As an additional note, it shouldn't be too difficult to jury-rig a water distillation system to make freshwater out of seawater, unless your "post-apocalyptic" scenario includes blocking sunlight (in which case getting heat for the distillation will be a problem).

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

Amusing, a post-apocalyptic world overrun by zombies, and an aircraft carrier with a skeleton crew :D

Amusing, a post-apocalyptic world overrun by zombies, and an aircraft carrier with a skeleton crew :D

Wee! http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/tv_happy-620.gifhttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/Mummy.gif

Wee!
How did you get the new smileys?

I have some more detailed questions to refine the estimate made by Lunatic Goofballs.

In your story, does the carrier actually need to move under it's own power? ...or is it adrift? How many people do you really need aboard a carrier that isn't planned to move? What are the consequences of not having enough people to operate the ship? What capabilities would you have to do without?

What is the logistics situation? You describe the story as "post-apocalyptic", so I'm assuming that all industrial society has collapsed. What quantities of uranium, oil, and food would be needed for it's operation? What are the consequences of running out of uranium or oil?

As an additional note, it shouldn't be too difficult to jury-rig a water distillation system to make freshwater out of seawater, unless your "post-apocalyptic" scenario includes blocking sunlight (in which case getting heat for the distillation will be a problem).

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

The uranium shouldn't be a problem. They only have to refuel the reactors every few years in the first place, and if you are not running most of the combat systems etc, the initial fuel load should last even longer.

Edit: Oil, and food on the other hand would be a problem.

Does anyone have an idea what size a skeleton crew for an aircraft carrier (potentially the new CVN 21) would have to be?

Just a guess, but from what I've seen and read. Even before a ship is finished, it already has a crew assigned to it and by the end of it's sea trails has acquired the majority of it's crew.

So considering, the CVN 21(CVN 78, Gerald R Ford) will have a total crew of 5,250 divided into 2,500 to 2,700 crew, approximately 2,480 aircrew and 70 Flag Crew. Eliminating the aircrew, flag crew and half the standard crew. You could probably run the ship (most if not all the systems) with 1,250 crew. You start getting below that number and you end up having to disable/turn off different systems since no one is there to man them or keep an eye on them.

Source-CVN 78 Gerald R Ford Class (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/cvn-21/specs.html)

Amusing, a post-apocalyptic world overrun by zombies, and an aircraft carrier with a skeleton crew :DThat's such a perfect tag-line... I may have to steal it... :D

So yeah, zombies have overrun the world, and humanity is slowly gathering from the few strongholds to reclaim earth from the undead. This particular story would focus on a crew of expendables that go out on various sorties (usually salvage operations) for the governing body of the "North Atlantic Alliance". By the time the story takes place, the NAA has managed to maintain Gibraltar as a base of operations (has desalinization facilities, but lacks food), controls the former Gerald R. Ford CVN-21 carrier, and has reclaimed and fortified portions of the American Midwest to supply food. The NAA has some Norwegian and British oil platforms under its control, thus ensuring some oil flow. I haven't looked into refineries yet, which will be necessary.

The NAA won't be the only political power aside from the Zombies, though. The Middle East, and thus a good number of oil derricks, will be controled by nomadic, saber-wielding Arabs. The only other power that I've thought of so far would be an oceanic alliance, but it's still undefined, particularly because the NAA won't be dealing with them for the most part.

I have some more detailed questions to refine the estimate made by Lunatic Goofballs.

In your story, does the carrier actually need to move under it's own power? ...or is it adrift? How many people do you really need aboard a carrier that isn't planned to move? What are the consequences of not having enough people to operate the ship? What capabilities would you have to do without?The Carrier would be moving, so you'd need enough people to keep the reactors running and steering the thing at the very least. Weapons systems and defenses aren't needed. However, you will need some people to make sure the Ospreys and Helicopters can take off and be stored. I'm not sure if Ospreys are capable of using or intended for the catapult system, but it is my understanding that the electromagnetic system the new CVN 21s use will be easier to maintain than the system used on older carriers.

What is the logistics situation? You describe the story as "post-apocalyptic", so I'm assuming that all industrial society has collapsed. What quantities of uranium, oil, and food would be needed for it's operation? What are the consequences of running out of uranium or oil?By the time the story takes place, food is less of a problem, though nuclear fuel will begin to loom and the expendables will eventually be forced to find replacements. Nuclear power and a high degree of automation are reason why I opted to use the Ford as opposed to European or other American carriers.

I have no idea how difficult the other fuel situation will be. Crude oil is readily available, its refining capabilities that would be the issue. And they are necessary, since a lot of travel occurs by helicopter, particularly the salvage missions.
As an additional note, it shouldn't be too difficult to jury-rig a water distillation system to make freshwater out of seawater, unless your "post-apocalyptic" scenario includes blocking sunlight (in which case getting heat for the distillation will be a problem).

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."No, just zombies, and the virus is not waterborne.

Depends on the carrier :p

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=434

I'm sure that didn't run with nuclear power, for example. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principe_de_Asturias_(R11)

That on the otherhand has a crew of 600.


I also think you can safely guess the reader wont bother checking the facts and faxing you a list of things that make having a crew of 50 to a 100 an impossibility. Especially as this is post-apoc setting: Just set the date for apocalypse 20 years into the future and you can have a fully functional nuclear fusion carrier manned by 5 people.

Depends on the carrier :p

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=434

I'm sure that didn't run with nuclear power, for example. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principe_de_Asturias_(R11)

That on the otherhand has a crew of 600.Fuel problems can quickly become an issue with non-nuclear craft, however. That's why I'm opting for the CVN 21 class.

I also think you can safely guess the reader wont bother checking the facts and faxing you a list of things that make having a crew of 50 to a 100 an impossibility. Especially as this is post-apoc setting: Just set the date for apocalypse 20 years into the future and you can have a fully functional nuclear fusion carrier manned by 5 people.It's more like 7+ years, which will be when the USS Gerald Ford is scheduled to be completed. And I'm not just doing this for the reader! A certain degree of realism is for me :p

Fuel problems can quickly become an issue with non-nuclear craft, however. That's why I'm opting for the CVN 21 class.

Not really, think of jury rigging sails or solar panels for electrical power or solar paneling the runway for power. :D

It's more like 7+ years, which will be when the USS Gerald Ford is scheduled to be completed. And I'm not just doing this for the reader! A certain degree of realism is for me :p

Just don't make it too realistic and throw a few plasma gizmos in, they're the stable of every PA scenario (as are zombies and mutants). ;)

I don't know. However, I think LG served on a carrier - he might know.

why in the world are so many generalites former military?

why in the world are so many generalites former military?

Because this is where we plot to take over the world. Now if we could just decide on which one of us gets to be the Grand General of the World, we'd be all set.

why in the world are so many generalites former military?

Many countries still have or had drafts in the past few decades.

Why do you need a CVN? I'd think that anything with some deck space, berthing, and hangar space would be adequate. Something smaller than a CVN might be easier to port for resupply, assuming you won't be doing UNREP.

How about a LPH/LPD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Somerset_%28LPD-25%29)? Those are probably manageable with crew of a couple dozen.

Not really, think of jury rigging sails or solar panels for electrical power or solar paneling the runway for power. :DTrue, but you'd need to know how to use those in addition to having them. However, solar paneling the runway loses opportunities for deep dialogue between two characters sitting at the edge of the runway, looking into the sunset.
Just don't make it too realistic and throw a few plasma gizmos in, they're the stable of every PA scenario (as are zombies and mutants). ;)Nah, none of that. Hockey sticks, baseball bats, and paddles will be the weapons of the future!

Why do you need a CVN? I'd think that anything with some deck space, berthing, and hangar space would be adequate. Something smaller than a CVN might be easier to port for resupply, assuming you won't be doing UNREP.

How about a LPH/LPD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Somerset_%28LPD-25%29)? Those are probably manageable with crew of a couple dozen.It isn't meant to be entirely realistic, afterall ;)
LPDs look fine, but it adds the fuel scarcity component which I'd prefer to keep for vehicles as opposed to ships. Also, the Gerald Ford would be faster, and considering that most of the food would eventually be grown across the Atlantic, a faster vessel is probably an absolute necessity. I don't know whether Gibraltar can service carriers the size of the CVN 21, but apparently it can service nuclear submarines (for non-nuclear maintenance). Salvaging operations would primarily happen by air, due to the heightened risk of moving on the ground.

It isn't meant to be entirely realistic, afterall ;)
LPDs look fine, but it adds the fuel scarcity component which I'd prefer to keep for vehicles as opposed to ships. Also, the Gerald Ford would be faster, and considering that most of the food would eventually be grown across the Atlantic, a faster vessel is probably an absolute necessity. I don't know whether Gibraltar can service carriers the size of the CVN 21, but apparently it can service nuclear submarines (for non-nuclear maintenance). Salvaging operations would primarily happen by air, due to the heightened risk of moving on the ground.
Sure, I understand. I'd bet it would take about a hundred sailors to just operate and maintain a carrier. And when I say maintain, I mean just enough to keep the engines running and whatever nav/comm gear you need operational. Maybe I'm off by a hundred, but I just don't think so. There are just a lot of things you don't need to have done in your scenario.

The Navy says that the ship's company will be 3200 sailors and officers. There's a lot of fat in that number. Squadrons that I was assigned to were never staffed to the TO level. We usually had some reduced manning level that was sufficient for peacetime.

I don't know if a carrier is the best getaway vehicle for what you are planning.

They require an extensive amount of maintenance and you need a very well trained crew.

However, if you are sticking with this idea, I do not recommend a CVN, due to its size, but rather, try out the Charles de Gualle. Its smaller, yet nuclear powered, which seems to be a requirement for your plan.

Sure, I understand. I'd bet it would take about a hundred sailors to just operate and maintain a carrier. And when I say maintain, I mean just enough to keep the engines running and whatever nav/comm gear you need operational. Maybe I'm off by a hundred, but I just don't think so. There are just a lot of things you don't need to have done in your scenario.Indeed. Never having served militarily, much less on a ship, I have no idea what all needs to be done to avoid the vessel falling apart, so I thought I'd better ask those that did. For helicopter scenes, I'll be asking my little brother for advice, since he's in the German Army Aviation now.
The Navy says that the ship's company will be 3200 sailors and officers. There's a lot of fat in that number. Squadrons that I was assigned to were never staffed to the TO level. We usually had some reduced manning level that was sufficient for peacetime.Yeah. There aren't many sources dividing up the amount of people assigned to weapons, flight decks, or preparing food, so it's hard to tell how many of those are absolutely essential.

I don't know if a carrier is the best getaway vehicle for what you are planning.

They require an extensive amount of maintenance and you need a very well trained crew.

However, if you are sticking with this idea, I do not recommend a CVN, due to its size, but rather, try out the Charles de Gualle. Its smaller, yet nuclear powered, which seems to be a requirement for your plan.I took a look at it, but I'll probably be sticking with CVN 21, as it's got a very high degree of automation. The Charles de Gaulle has a nice, low complement, but, considering that there are more former US Navy personnel on NSG than there are former Marine Nationale personnel, sticking with an American vessel will probably be better.

Also, concerning the crew: Considering that the world has been overrun by zombies, ships tend to end up as safe havens (or slaughterhouses, depending on how well they do in keeping the infected off-board). Plenty of original crewmembers will have survived the apocalypse.

why in the world are so many generalites former military?

All the better training to aim my pies. :)

All the better training to aim my pies. :)

The conspiracy unfolds.

By the time the story takes place, the NAA has managed to maintain Gibraltar as a base of operations (has desalinization facilities, but lacks food), controls the former Gerald R. Ford CVN-21 carrier, and has reclaimed and fortified portions of the American Midwest to supply food. The NAA has some Norwegian and British oil platforms under its control, thus ensuring some oil flow. I haven't looked into refineries yet, which will be necessary.

Given the amount of fortifications that you'd need to protect an inland area properly, and the work that shipping the food from the American Midwest to your NAA's other bases -- on this side of the Atlantic -- would take, isn't that a bad idea? I'd suggest reclaiming Ireland from the zombies for your farming area, because _

1/ Once you've cleared it, they can't get back in (assuming they don't have any naval capability themselves) and so you don't need to invest in expensive fortifications.
2/ You can ship the food your other bases, easily, by sea... especially as it's so much nearer than the American Midwest anyway...
3/ There might still be some potentially-useful dockyards in Belfast (although those might have been closed by now in RL history, I'm not sure...)

Indeed. Never having served militarily, much less on a ship, I have no idea what all needs to be done to avoid the vessel falling apart, so I thought I'd better ask those that did. For helicopter scenes, I'll be asking my little brother for advice, since he's in the German Army Aviation now.
Yeah. There aren't many sources dividing up the amount of people assigned to weapons, flight decks, or preparing food, so it's hard to tell how many of those are absolutely essential.
There's maintenance and there's MAINTENANCE. Toilets stop up, electrical appliances stop working -- a lot of it's just like being the super at an apartment complex. Then there's the big stuff. Maybe a turbine bearing starts to go bad, or an evaporator {one of the nice things about a CVN is that you make your own water and there's always plenty of HOT water} needs repair. Big stuff that needs parts and people to repair. I really don't know if a ship like the CVN-21 can repair anything, or if they count on being able to find a port/dry dock for the bigger problems. One of the things that you can take comfort in is that newer ships are like newer cars in that they don't have as many serious problems.

Harland and Wolff is still open, although it's nearing five years since it built a ship. The shipyard has the largest drydock in the world apparently, and would be far better equipped for refitting a ship than Gibraltar. Plus there'd probably be a fair few shipbuilders left over that have survived the Zombocalypse.

How did you get the new smileys?
I'm the master of a gazillion smileys.

It's been many, many years since I've been in the Navy, so I would appreciate it if you could tell me when they started using 3 shifts while at sea? It used to be 12 hour shifts plus watch and probably is still that way especially if you are at war.

Indeed, most surface ships run 2 shifts.... Though submarines operate in a 3 shift rotation, 6 hours each for an 18 hour day (we're not as tied to any day-night rotation, since few even know when the sun is up or not).

Indeed, most surface ships run 2 shifts.... Though submarines operate in a 3 shift rotation, 6 hours each for an 18 hour day (we're not as tied to any day-night rotation, since few even know when the sun is up or not).

There is no set number of shifts for each job. It depends on how many of the people on your ship have qualified as watchstanders. At the beginning of a deployment you might be on port and starboard (12 on 12 off) while towards the end of that same deployment it could be 6 on and 18 off as more people qualified as watchstanders and could be added to the watch bill.

Given the amount of fortifications that you'd need to protect an inland area properly, and the work that shipping the food from the American Midwest to your NAA's other bases -- on this side of the Atlantic -- would take, isn't that a bad idea? I'd suggest reclaiming Ireland from the zombies for your farming area, because _The zombies are fairly dumb, and keeping them out is primarily a matter of keeping a stable enough fence/wall and patrolling along it to make sure there's no gaps. Getting it up is the hard part, but that's saved for a storyline.

1/ Once you've cleared it, they can't get back in (assuming they don't have any naval capability themselves) and so you don't need to invest in expensive fortifications.Yes, no. Even though the dead can't swim, they can walk. That means getting back to Ireland is mainly a matter of walking across the English Channel or Irish Sea.
2/ You can ship the food your other bases, easily, by sea... especially as it's so much nearer than the American Midwest anyway
3/ There might still be some potentially-useful dockyards in Belfast (although those might have been closed by now in RL history, I'm not sure...)True. Ireland is looking like an attractive theatre for reclaiming actions. I haven't decided how wildlife (and domesticated animals) will be affected by the zombies yet, but taking Ireland seems like a clever choice.

One reason why I'm opting for taking (parts of) the Midwest as well, however, is that food is a scarce commodity, and controlling a surplus allows for trading with the other organizations that have sprung up.

There's maintenance and there's MAINTENANCE. Toilets stop up, electrical appliances stop working -- a lot of it's just like being the super at an apartment complex. Then there's the big stuff. Maybe a turbine bearing starts to go bad, or an evaporator {one of the nice things about a CVN is that you make your own water and there's always plenty of HOT water} needs repair. Big stuff that needs parts and people to repair. I really don't know if a ship like the CVN-21 can repair anything, or if they count on being able to find a port/dry dock for the bigger problems. One of the things that you can take comfort in is that newer ships are like newer cars in that they don't have as many serious problems.Indeed. One reason to prefer the Ford to the de Gaulle.

Harland and Wolff is still open, although it's nearing five years since it built a ship. The shipyard has the largest drydock in the world apparently, and would be far better equipped for refitting a ship than Gibraltar. Plus there'd probably be a fair few shipbuilders left over that have survived the Zombocalypse.True. Reclaiming it would probably be a major goal of the NAA, though Gibraltar strikes me as a good place to make the initial stand and from where to rally from.

The zombies are fairly dumb, and keeping them out is primarily a matter of keeping a stable enough fence/wall and patrolling along it to make sure there's no gaps. Getting it up is the hard part, but that's saved for a storyline.
Okay.

Yes, no. Even though the dead can't swim, they can walk. That means getting back to Ireland is mainly a matter of walking across the English Channel or Irish Sea.
Ouch! Although, if they're "fairly dumb", maybe they wouldn't think of doing this? After all, water is harder to walk through than air, and presumably they wouldn't know that there were un-zombified humans on the other side of the sea...
Thinks: No roads, or maps; currents (probably strongest in the narrowest straits); sharks, and other predators... I doubt whether many zombies would get across...

One reason why I'm opting for taking (parts of) the Midwest as well, however, is that food is a scarce commodity, and controlling a surplus allows for trading with the other organizations that have sprung up.
Okay. Do the surviving humans active in the Midwest include many members of 'survivalist' 'militias', who've come back down to the lowlands after sitting out the plague in their mountain strongholds? Was the NORAD base at Cheyenne Mountain "locked down" soon enough to keep the plague out?

Ouch! Although, if they're "fairly dumb", maybe they wouldn't think of doing this? After all, water is harder to walk through than air, and presumably they wouldn't know that there were un-zombified humans on the other side of the sea...
Thinks: No roads, or maps; currents (probably strongest in the narrowest straits); sharks, and other predators... I doubt whether many zombies would get across... I can see where you're coming from, but that isn't how this works. While there is no drive to cross through water, and while the zombies are too far away to sense human flesh across either the Irish Sea or the English channel, there's always the possibility that some ship loses a few zombies out off the coast some time ago, or better yet, sinks. The zombies won't drown and will eventually start walking in some direction, resulting in them making landfall eventually (I'm not sure of animal-zombie interactions yet, so sharks stopping them are a definite maybe). Remember, it takes only one zombie to infect a population, you wouldn't need many to make landfall, particularly if there are no means by which they can be kept away.

Okay. Do the surviving humans active in the Midwest include many members of 'survivalist' 'militias', who've come back down to the lowlands after sitting out the plague in their mountain strongholds? Was the NORAD base at Cheyenne Mountain "locked down" soon enough to keep the plague out?Unsure. It may be an effort by the NAA to repopulate previously abandoned territory after its been secured. I'm not sure if I want NORAD involved, considering the complications nuclear weapons woud bring to the fragile political balance that's slowly emerging across the world.

The zombies won't drown and will eventually start walking in some direction, resulting in them making landfall eventually (I'm not sure of animal-zombie interactions yet, so sharks stopping them are a definite maybe).

Can zombies "survive" the deep ocean pressure and strong currents ? Would they not be crushed or torn apart ?

I'm the master of a gazillion smileys.

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Can zombies "survive" the deep ocean pressure and strong currents ? Would they not be crushed or torn apart ?

Or eaten by fish.

Can zombies "survive" the deep ocean pressure and strong currents ? Would they not be crushed or torn apart ?Not the deep ocean, but certainly depths that humans are relatively unable to venture to. Shallower water, such as the North Sea, would likely prove less of a problem. There won't be any trans-Atlantic trips by zombies, if that's what you meant.

Or eaten by fish.So far, the only thing keeping me from using the "toxic flesh" solution to that problem is that the ocean water itself would become poisoned, which in turn leads to a lot more thinking.

I can see where you're coming from, but that isn't how this works. While there is no drive to cross through water, and while the zombies are too far away to sense human flesh across either the Irish Sea or the English channel, there's always the possibility that some ship loses a few zombies out off the coast some time ago, or better yet, sinks. The zombies won't drown and will eventually start walking in some direction, resulting in them making landfall eventually (I'm not sure of animal-zombie interactions yet, so sharks stopping them are a definite maybe). Remember, it takes only one zombie to infect a population, you wouldn't need many to make landfall, particularly if there are no means by which they can be kept away.
Okay.
But wouldn't they be inclined (no pun intended) to walk downhill rather than up, simply because it's easier, and thus end up in the depths of the seas rather than coming ashore anywhere?

Okay.
But wouldn't they be inclined (no pun intended) to walk downhill rather than up, simply because it's easier, and thus end up in the depths of the seas rather than coming ashore anywhere?They'll probably be aware enough of the water and seek to leave it. There probably will be enough intelligence left over to understand the concepts of up and down, and they'll be aware that further up, the water stops.

They'll probably be aware enough of the water and seek to leave it. There probably will be enough intelligence left over to understand the concepts of up and down, and they'll be aware that further up, the water stops.
Fair enough. My remark about downhill being easier than up was one that I meant to amend, if you hadn't already replied to it, anyway... because, even if they weren't trying to get out of the seas, the increased ease of moving through the thinner water further up would presumably also have been a factor.
So, if you do reclaim Ireland, you'll need coastal patrols that might actually involve more work than the fence in the Midwest: Damn!


A few random suggestions about this future:

1/ Without skilled people around to keep them running properly, the nuclear power-plants & fuel [re]proccessing sites are EXTREMELY likely to undergo catastrophic failures quite soon: Your survivors are therefore strongly advised to remain upwind from such places. (I think that Ireland, again, is reasonably safe in that respect.)
2/ I don't now how quickly the plague spread, but presumably the world's more isolated communities are the likeliest ones to have avoided contamination altogether? In the South Atlantic, the small number of people who live on Tristan da Cunha would probably be okay whilst the situation on the more populous St Helena and the Falkands would -- because of tourism -- be iffier.
3/ Maybe the 'toxic flesh' situation does apply on land, because otherwise dogs & rats (and larger predators, in areas that still have them) would be quite rapidly reducing the zombie population and increasing their own numbers, but something in the sea's chemistry (maybe just the Salt?) allows marine lifeforms to feed on the [relatively rare] zombies that come their way without being poisoned.
4/ I expect that some people who realised that they were dying would dress up in their finery, ready to look their best when they meet their maker: And so, in Northern Ireland the 'Orangemen' are still marching, marching, perpetually (even if bits are dropping off of them from time to time) marching behind their drummers...

Because this is where we plot to take over the world. Now if we could just decide on which one of us gets to be the Grand General of the World, we'd be all set.

elect LG

There is no set number of shifts for each job. It depends on how many of the people on your ship have qualified as watchstanders. At the beginning of a deployment you might be on port and starboard (12 on 12 off) while towards the end of that same deployment it could be 6 on and 18 off as more people qualified as watchstanders and could be added to the watch bill.

On the sub, we were always 6 on 12 off at sea.... Not generally an issue about qualified watch standers... since everyone has to qualify within 9 months of their reporting to the boat... Actually less, since the 9 month timeframe is to qualify for submarines (the Dolphins), which requires (as a subset) qualifying for two at sea and two in port stations (minimum) to complete the qual.... I was qualified FTOW within the first 2 months, and alittle later as Helmsman/Planesman.

It's been many, many years since I've been in the Navy, so I would appreciate it if you could tell me when they started using 3 shifts while at sea? It used to be 12 hour shifts plus watch and probably is still that way especially if you are at war.

When I was on the Ike, we operated in 8 hour shifts, but I was part of the MarDet, not sure how the squids operated ;)

Why do you need a CVN? I'd think that anything with some deck space, berthing, and hangar space would be adequate. Something smaller than a CVN might be easier to port for resupply, assuming you won't be doing UNREP.

How about a LPH/LPD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Somerset_%28LPD-25%29)? Those are probably manageable with crew of a couple dozen.

Because its nuclear thusly greatly reducing the need for refueling (as he stated already)

Because its nuclear thusly greatly reducing the need for refueling (as he stated already)
There's another whole problem -- resupply for the inhabitants. The Navy takes care of that on extended cruises with underway replenishment -- It takes a lot of brown lettuce to run a ship.

If you're going to port to get food, why not refuel as well?

But it's his story in the end and I was just making suggestions so chill.

Because its nuclear thusly greatly reducing the need for refueling (as he stated already)

Yep, the only real limit to deployment time for a nuke-powered vessel, is how much food stores it can carry for its crew... The sub I was on could stay deployed and submerged for 90 days, because we could carry enough food for a crew of 120 for that time period. We can make our own water, and make our own air... so that's not an issue, and the reactor is good for a decade at least.

There's another whole problem -- resupply for the inhabitants. The Navy takes care of that on extended cruises with underway replenishment -- It takes a lot of brown lettuce to run a ship.

If you're going to port to get food, why not refuel as well?

But it's his story in the end and I was just making suggestions so chill.

I am chilled

There's another whole problem -- resupply for the inhabitants. The Navy takes care of that on extended cruises with underway replenishment -- It takes a lot of brown lettuce to run a ship.

If you're going to port to get food, why not refuel as well?

But it's his story in the end and I was just making suggestions so chill.

Well, assuming you're only feeding 2000 and not ~4500... And you avoid perishable items by having most of the vegetables and fruits canned, you could phenomenally increase the deployment time between needing to take on stores loads... If you have an already fueled nuke carrier you're good for quite awhile... And it might be easier to acquire food than the thousands of gallons of diesel fuel oil you'ld need for the more conventional ships, or kerosene for gas-turbine vessels...

elect LG

My thoughts exactly.

Well, assuming you're only feeding 2000 and not ~4500... And you avoid perishable items by having most of the vegetables and fruits canned, you could phenomenally increase the deployment time between needing to take on stores loads... If you have an already fueled nuke carrier you're good for quite awhile... And it might be easier to acquire food than the thousands of gallons of diesel fuel oil you'ld need for the more conventional ships, or kerosene for gas-turbine vessels...Yeah, it basically boils down to food and fuel becoming scarce. New food is easier to obtain than fuel after civilization has collapsed, and using a nuclear powered craft is extremely helpful to reduce fossil fuel consumption.

Yeah, it basically boils down to food and fuel becoming scarce. New food is easier to obtain than fuel after civilization has collapsed, and using a nuclear powered craft is extremely helpful to reduce fossil fuel consumption.

You're still going to need some petroleum products, such as lubrication oils... And you're going to need several additives for the reactors primary water circulation loops... You'll need descaler compounds to store for usage in the evaporators (for cleaning between uses) for producing potable and DI/DM water for usage in electronic cooling systems, and for use in the primary reactor loops (the remaining brine could be used for firefighting and flushing water for toilets).

Yeah, it basically boils down to food and fuel becoming scarce. New food is easier to obtain than fuel after civilization has collapsed, and using a nuclear powered craft is extremely helpful to reduce fossil fuel consumption.
what about MREs arent they found in military bases and ships?

You're still going to need some petroleum products, such as lubrication oils... And you're going to need several additives for the reactors primary water circulation loops... You'll need descaler compounds to store for usage in the evaporators (for cleaning between uses) for producing potable and DI/DM water for usage in electronic cooling systems, and for use in the primary reactor loops (the remaining brine could be used for firefighting and flushing water for toilets).Not to mention fuel for the helicopters. However, not using fuel for the ship is going to free up a lot of the scarce fuel for other purposes. Petroleum products are still around, and to some extent, still being produced. But everything is in short supply due to a lot of the infrastructure being in zombie infested areas.

what about MREs arent they found in military bases and ships?Those will eventually run out, if they haven't already been plundered by other survivors. Living off of MREs and packaged food salvaged from bases and stores is not a sustainable way of surviving. Eventually the survivors will have to grow their own food.

With respect to the underwater zombies, seafloor topography will cause issues. Crossing Mid ocean ridges and climbing 3km high cliffs, whilst wading through 3m+ of ooze would be tricky for the average zombie.

With respect to the underwater zombies, seafloor topography will cause issues. Crossing Mid ocean ridges and climbing 3km high cliffs, whilst wading through 3m+ of ooze would be tricky for the average zombie.Indeed. Those particular treks are not going to happen.

Not to mention fuel for the helicopters. However, not using fuel for the ship is going to free up a lot of the scarce fuel for other purposes. Petroleum products are still around, and to some extent, still being produced. But everything is in short supply due to a lot of the infrastructure being in zombie infested areas.
If you can cleanse the Shetland Islands, which are fairly small & have only a low population, then that gives you the facility at Sullam Voe where the pipeline from some of Britain's North Sea fields comes ashore...

Eventually the survivors will have to grow their own food.
And for some foodstuffs that would require starting their production pretty much immediately, whether because their seeds no longer plant themselves naturally (as is the case for Maize) or they do that but can't then compete very well with weeds and so would mostly be eliminated if the survivors waited for several years before looking for stocks, or because they come from livestock that would probably get wiped out (by the zombies, if not by animal predators) without human protection...

If you can cleanse the Shetland Islands, which are fairly small & have only a low population, then that gives you the facility at Sullam Voe where the pipeline from some of Britain's North Sea fields comes ashore...That's good to know.
And for some foodstuffs that would require starting their production pretty much immediately, whether because their seeds no longer plant themselves naturally (as is the case for Maize) or they do that but can't then compete very well with weeds and so would mostly be eliminated if the survivors waited for several years before looking for stocks, or because they come from livestock that would probably get wiped out (by the zombies, if not by animal predators) without human protection...A raid on that Scandinavian seed bank is becoming more and more plausible.

I've just checked. Here in RL, Sullom Voe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullom_Voe) is only a trans-shipment site rather than an actual refinery... but of course you could change that detail in your story's history, and even if you don't do so it would seem like quite a good location for your survivors to build a small refinery at -- as a safer alternative to taking control of one that's on a larger landmass -- anyway. Apart from having the oil delivered there by pipeline (from platforms in area that you said they'd be exploiting) already, there would probably be surplus-to-post-plague-requirements piping & tanks that could be adapated for this purpose... and the waters around Shetland are turbulent enough that more zombies getting there from elsewhere seems highly unlikely.

what about MREs arent they found in military bases and ships?

MRE's while useful, are generally used only be mobile deployed forces, and are not likely to be found on a carrier, though they might be able to be salvaged from any LPD, LHD (etc) which would normally have some sort of MEU normally attached... Though it's really a non-issue in this scenario... MRE are used for ground deployed forces where food preparation is not realistically possible... A carrier has massive frozen and refrigerated holds for food, as well as a fully equipped kitchen... Ready-to-eat meals are not necessary in such a scenario...

A raid on that Scandinavian seed bank is becoming more and more plausible.

Might I suggest that your group focus on fishing? You could cruise to the Grand Banks, or perhaps closer areas to their bases of operations, and haul out tons of fish, making a good, safe to access source of protein. Much less land needed for agriculture, since you can focus on the production of grains with your remaining farmland.

i neither know nor care about your class of nukuler wessels, but anything that takes more the 12 execs, 80 tecs, and 200 grunts to run, isn't worth bothering with, plus i think that's more then enough charicters for endless story possibilities. i would strongly suggest converting the 'flight deck' to high intensity farmland, better yet, most of it a big greenhouse, and maybe several of the hanger decks into hydroponics with grow light too.

it's all well and good to say they all fish, but you still need fruits and vegetables.

then theres the little detail of making it go. i'm guessing you're thinking fission and its eneugh freshely fueled to keep going for several years.

one weakness with that is that when the time comes, in what sounds like the scenario being suggested, without the land based infrastructure to extract, proccess and transport this fuel to the ship, there ain't gonna be any.

so what then? rig sails or batteries and charge them with windmills and solar cells? you could do that, but you're going to have to live with severe energy rationing. but then again you're already used to that, because you're going to have to be doing so anyway.

which means when its dark, most of the ship is going to be dark too.

and i take it your 'crew' is going to have to include women and children. and that means your going to need places to play, to keep everyone from going nuts, and schools to train succeeding generations of crew.

now you have something you can make believable.

you can have, give your crew members, and not just the ship itself, all the tecnology you want, provided nearly all of it requires very little energy to run.

i would also suggest training some of your crew members as musicians and actors to keep everyone happy and sanely amused.

and limit the nature of personal armament. this isn't quite as bad as it would be in space, but you still don't want people going around putting holes in the ship and each other.

at least not on an every day basis. but you could of course, if so inclined, have a very well equiped armory for collective engaugements if that's what you're thinking in terms of.

but just me, being me, i wouldn't suggest going arround with a chip on your sholder just because you have such a tremendous advantage over all the poor zombie suckers stuck on dry land.

tremendous advantage that is, until your fuel starts to run out, unless you go the self sustainable route.

=^^=
.../\...

i neither know nor care about your class of nukuler wessels, but anything that takes more the 12 execs, 80 tecs, and 200 grunts to run, isn't worth bothering with, plus i think that's more then enough charicters for endless story possibilities. i would strongly suggest converting the 'flight deck' to high intensity farmland, better yet, most of it a big greenhouse, and maybe several of the hanger decks into hydroponics with grow light too.

it's all well and good to say they all fish, but you still need fruits and vegetables.

then theres the little detail of making it go. i'm guessing you're thinking fission and its eneugh freshely fueled to keep going for several years.

one weakness with that is that when the time comes, in what sounds like the scenario being suggested, without the land based infrastructure to extract, proccess and transport this fuel to the ship, there ain't gonna be any.

so what then? rig sails or batteries and charge them with windmills and solar cells? you could do that, but you're going to have to live with severe energy rationing. but then again you're already used to that, because you're going to have to be doing so anyway.

which means when its dark, most of the ship is going to be dark too.

and i take it your 'crew' is going to have to include women and children. and that means your going to need places to play, to keep everyone from going nuts, and schools to train succeeding generations of crew.

now you have something you can make believable.

you can have, give your crew members, and not just the ship itself, all the tecnology you want, provided nearly all of it requires very little energy to run.

i would also suggest training some of your crew members as musicians and actors to keep everyone happy and sanely amused.

and limit the nature of personal armament. this isn't quite as bad as it would be in space, but you still don't want people going around putting holes in the ship and each other.

at least not on an every day basis. but you could of course, if so inclined, have a very well equiped armory for collective engaugements if that's what you're thinking in terms of.

but just me, being me, i wouldn't suggest going arround with a chip on your sholder just because you have such a tremendous advantage over all the poor zombie suckers stuck on dry land.

tremendous advantage that is, until your fuel starts to run out, unless you go the self sustainable route.

=^^=
.../\...


So, one could cut their losses and use a fast-attack submarine manned by about 100 people.

i neither know nor care about your class of nukuler wessels, but anything that takes more the 12 execs, 80 tecs, and 200 grunts to run, isn't worth bothering with, plus i think that's more then enough charicters for endless story possibilities. i would strongly suggest converting the 'flight deck' to high intensity farmland, better yet, most of it a big greenhouse, and maybe several of the hanger decks into hydroponics with grow light too. One benefit of the plot concerning the main characters is that they are infected (not zombies, but the virus is dormant and can still be passed on) and therefore have little to no interaction with the regular crew, save the Captain and the medical staff. The flight deck will be needed for landing the occasional plane, as well as helicopters, so it'll remain.

it's all well and good to say they all fish, but you still need fruits and vegetables.Actually, there may be a problem with the fish scenario. It depends on how many are left by the time the Gerald Ford is commissioned, and there's a good chance major fish populations will have been destroyed by then.

then theres the little detail of making it go. i'm guessing you're thinking fission and its eneugh freshely fueled to keep going for several years.

one weakness with that is that when the time comes, in what sounds like the scenario being suggested, without the land based infrastructure to extract, proccess and transport this fuel to the ship, there ain't gonna be any.

so what then? rig sails or batteries and charge them with windmills and solar cells? you could do that, but you're going to have to live with severe energy rationing. but then again you're already used to that, because you're going to have to be doing so anyway.

which means when its dark, most of the ship is going to be dark too.Or raid a facility that would have the necessary fuel. But that's something I'm going to worry about later.

and i take it your 'crew' is going to have to include women and children. and that means your going to need places to play, to keep everyone from going nuts, and schools to train succeeding generations of crew.No women or children in the crew, save the occasional survivor picked up that hasn't been brought to one of the on-shore facilities. But until then, there should be plenty of space on an aircraft carrier to provide for a play room. Schools and whatnot are in Gibraltar and the other enclaves on land.

now you have something you can make believable.

you can have, give your crew members, and not just the ship itself, all the tecnology you want, provided nearly all of it requires very little energy to run.

i would also suggest training some of your crew members as musicians and actors to keep everyone happy and sanely amused.

and limit the nature of personal armament. this isn't quite as bad as it would be in space, but you still don't want people going around putting holes in the ship and each other.

at least not on an every day basis. but you could of course, if so inclined, have a very well equiped armory for collective engaugements if that's what you're thinking in terms of.

but just me, being me, i wouldn't suggest going arround with a chip on your sholder just because you have such a tremendous advantage over all the poor zombie suckers stuck on dry land.

tremendous advantage that is, until your fuel starts to run out, unless you go the self sustainable route.

=^^=
.../\...Maybe you missed the part about Gibraltar and reclaiming parts of the Midwest, so a lot of what you're saying doesn't really apply. But other than that, sound reasoning.

Just one more point: Given the references to a virus, presumably these 'zombies' are supposed to be still-living (although physically & mentally altered) beings rather than actual 'undead' of a more supernatural nature. That being the case, shouldn't they really require too much oxygen for walking across the sea-beds to be viable for them?No, they're actually dead. The virus kills you (or fails to) and then reanimates your dead body. In the case of infected that survive a bite (which would be the case if the immune system is rather robust, the injury is rather shallow, and/or an anti-virus is applied in time), the virus lies dormant, and breaks out again should the immune system become crippled or severely weakened or if the infected person dies.

Just one more point: Given the references to a virus, presumably these 'zombies' are supposed to be still-living (although physically & mentally altered) beings rather than actual 'undead' of a more supernatural nature. That being the case, shouldn't they really require too much oxygen for walking across the sea-beds to be viable for them?

i virus that reanimates the dead is a bit beyond the realm of science fiction and well into that of fantasy horror, unless you're talking about nanites, which wouldn't tecnicly be a virus at all, not would those they 'reanimate' be awaire beings but more like nations of nanites internally. that they could even walk, let alone attack anyone is a little bit questionable.

i also have serious major doubts about that gebralter and retaking of the midwest bussiness, or any such thing as anyplace to raid for fuel.

if your ship isn't able to sustain itself your talking a very temporary and unstable situation, also one more suitable for fantasy then believable sf.

of course what movies call sf is pretty much fantasy with a few fx that look like tecnology thrown in. which this is begining to sound more and more like.

there have been real and viable ocean going civilization in real science fiction.

zombie anything, other then in the sense of the mistaken perception, always good for scare drama, people have about vodune, is pretty much the realm of fantasy, not science anything.

some kinds of functional resurection by tangable means might well be possible, but the old shambling cadavers/tag you're one of them bit, doesn't really cut it.

you could have, like in the song "wooden ships" where "people on the shoreline" are all dying of radiation sickness or something, and much of the land area is still "hot".

=^^=
.../\...

i virus that reanimates the dead is a bit beyond the realm of science fiction and well into that of fantasy horror, unless you're talking about nanites, which wouldn't tecnicly be a virus at all, not would those they 'reanimate' be awaire beings but more like nations of nanites internally. that they could even walk, let alone attack anyone is a little bit questionable.Yup. That's why I'm trying to remove as much faulty things as possible.

i also have serious major doubts about that gebralter and retaking of the midwest bussiness, or any such thing as anyplace to raid for fuel.Why?

if your ship isn't able to sustain itself your talking a very temporary and unstable situation, also one more suitable for fantasy then believable sf.It's neither though, it's the zombie survival subgenre.

of course what movies call sf is pretty much fantasy with a few fx that look like tecnology thrown in. which this is begining to sound more and more like.

there have been real and viable ocean going civilization in real science fiction.

zombie anything, other then in the sense of the mistaken perception, always good for scare drama, people have about vodune, is pretty much the realm of fantasy, not science anything.Again, it's not really science fiction, though a large focus of the story will be how society copes with the reality of scarce resources, hostile monsters inhabiting most of the earth, and the repurcussions of a segment of the population being future zombies.

some kinds of functional resurection by tangable means might well be possible, but the old shambling cadavers/tag you're one of them bit, doesn't really cut it.

you could have, like in the song "wooden ships" where "people on the shoreline" are all dying of radiation sickness or something, and much of the land area is still "hot".

=^^=
.../\...The zombies and their animation is not something I'm worried about making realistic. Putting too much effort on explaining the exact mechanism of how the zombies are animated and trying to make that as believeable as possible will detract from the more important parts of the story. How the outbreak occurred and managed to spread, what the people use to survive, and what kind of conflicts arise out of the apocalypse are what I'm trying to make semi-realistic.

No, they're actually dead. The virus kills you (or fails to) and then reanimates your dead body. In the case of infected that survive a bite (which would be the case if the immune system is rather robust, the injury is rather shallow, and/or an anti-virus is applied in time), the virus lies dormant, and breaks out again should the immune system become crippled or severely weakened or if the infected person dies.
Okay, so the zombies are dead-&-reanimated... but what's their energy-source? If they're metabolising food then, unless the virus adds a whole new biochemical system, I still don't see how they can do without oxygen...

Okay, so the zombies are dead-&-reanimated... but what's their energy-source? If they're metabolising food then, unless the virus adds a whole new biochemical system, I still don't see how they can do without oxygen...I'm unsure on that and I may just refuse to go into it. If the actual process remains ambiguous, you can still get away with willing suspension of belief. Better keep it wrong than get tied up in details and make it really wrong.

Two things:

Check out John Birmingham's Axis of Time trilogy for a few ideas to lift. While it's a bit different premise - 2021 fleet back into the 1940s - the way that the "Uptimers" deal with being unable to get "modern" supplies could be helpful.

And I know you've said you want to stick with a CV because they nuclear, I thought one of the new or planned gators was a nuke?

Your post apocalyptic idea of people on a carrier was taken years ago. First by the original (and now remade) Battlestar Galactica, then later with the Macross/Robotech series.

But instead of a CVN how about trying something like one of these Mothballed ships in Suisun Bay (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=suisun+bay&ll=38.074837,-122.096729&sll=38.066297,-121.681974&spn=0.026393,0.032444&sspn=0.013196,0.014291&t=k&hl=en)? Group of retired and/or current navy folks that get one or more of the ships up and running and escape sounds pretty good. Cool thing is you have a battleship, and old WWII aircraft carrier and quite a few old destroyers and cruisers there.

Might be interesting to have a mothballed fleet roaming around. Easier to maintain I'd imagine than the new ships. Also gives you LOTS of rp power for battles (especially as they could be the underdog).

Wow...gives me a few ideas even

Two things:

Check out John Birmingham's Axis of Time trilogy for a few ideas to lift. While it's a bit different premise - 2021 fleet back into the 1940s - the way that the "Uptimers" deal with being unable to get "modern" supplies could be helpful.Damn. That sounds pretty helpful, actually. Pity I'm short on change at the moment.
And I know you've said you want to stick with a CV because they nuclear, I thought one of the new or planned gators was a nuke?Not sure what you mean by gator.

Your post apocalyptic idea of people on a carrier was taken years ago. First by the original (and now remade) Battlestar Galactica, then later with the Macross/Robotech series.So has the idea of zombies overrunning the world...

But instead of a CVN how about trying something like one of these Mothballed ships in Suisun Bay (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=suisun+bay&ll=38.074837,-122.096729&sll=38.066297,-121.681974&spn=0.026393,0.032444&sspn=0.013196,0.014291&t=k&hl=en)? Group of retired and/or current navy folks that get one or more of the ships up and running and escape sounds pretty good. Cool thing is you have a battleship, and old WWII aircraft carrier and quite a few old destroyers and cruisers there.Maintenance issues and wrong-ocean-syndrome. The story focusses on the Atlantic, and Panama will fall under the control of a different political entity, making transferring the fleet impossible.

Might be interesting to have a mothballed fleet roaming around. Easier to maintain I'd imagine than the new ships. Also gives you LOTS of rp power for battles (especially as they could be the underdog). They are the underdog. The zombies don't have fleets though, so having a battleship on your side is a colossal waste of fuel for the most part.

Damn. That sounds pretty helpful, actually. Pity I'm short on change at the moment.

Bugger. Well you might be able to beg, borrow, or steal them... Even if they don't help, I strongly suspect you'd enjoy them from what you've posted... :)

Not sure what you mean by gator.

Gator refers to the Gator Navy (http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ships/amphibs/amphib.asp), as the amphibious naval forces are nicknamed over on the US side of the pond. (Gator being another word for alligator, as in a mean old lizard that will eat you on land or water. ;)) I was thinking either of the latest navy assault carrier or the planned one...

(Gator being another word for alligator, as in a mean old lizard that will eat you on land or water. ;))I knew that. Almost lost a second cousin to one.

*shrug* You said post apocalyptic when you started the thread...no mention of zombies until later (I didn't see that part before I posted as it's a ways into the thread...2 or 3 page) *EDIT* I reread your first post and must have missed the zombie part. Apologies. *edit*

Also, you never mentioned the Atlantic until later...again. Secondly, sailing around South America (or even using the newly reformed northwest passage) would make a good story series (unless you are going for a quick trip). You would be able to meet up with human strongholds, have arguments or form alliances (saving people and gathering supplies on your way).

Maintenance was the point of that suggestion. The are not the most reliable but they are rugged and durable and easier for untrained people to use (more so than the new carriers)

You said post-apocolyptic and I missed the zombie part. That could mean after a nuclear war, after the collapse of the economy and government, a virus, an asteroid strike. I was thinking there would be some other ships around that you would need protection from...hence other warships.

Why not just use a cruise ship? Easier to convert as a floating island and you don't need the weapons (as you stated) of any warship.

If you go CVN, they can't go very far without a support fleet (especially oilers and supply ships...most RPers and Story-tellers forget that major detail), and no CVN is allow to just roam around without their fleet (so if your ship is at sea, you have cruisers, subs, destroyers, oilers and supply ships with you)

*shrug* You said post apocalyptic when you started the thread...no mention of zombies until later (I didn't see that part before I posted as it's a ways into the thread...2 or 3 page) *EDIT* I reread your first post and must have missed the zombie part. Apologies. *edit*NP.

Also, you never mentioned the Atlantic until later...again. Secondly, sailing around South America (or even using the newly reformed northwest passage) would make a good story series (unless you are going for a quick trip). You would be able to meet up with human strongholds, have arguments or form alliances (saving people and gathering supplies on your way).Yeah, at the moment the governmental entity that the story focusses on tries to unite human outposts along the north Atlantic. There's another entity that does similar in the Pacific and Central America.

Maintenance was the point of that suggestion. The are not the most reliable but they are rugged and durable and easier for untrained people to use (more so than the new carriers)Some of the original crew has survived and is integrated into the new crew, albeit it gets slashed from traditional complement anyway.

You said post-apocolyptic and I missed the zombie part. That could mean after a nuclear war, after the collapse of the economy and government, a virus, an asteroid strike. I was thinking there would be some other ships around that you would need protection from...hence other warships.I figured as much. I pointed out why this was not the case; hope I wasn't too brazen about it.

Why not just use a cruise ship? Easier to convert as a floating island and you don't need the weapons (as you stated) of any warship.

If you go CVN, they can't go very far without a support fleet (especially oilers and supply ships...most RPers and Story-tellers forget that major detail), and no CVN is allow to just roam around without their fleet (so if your ship is at sea, you have cruisers, subs, destroyers, oilers and supply ships with you)Thanks a lot for pointing that out. On reading up on Carrier Battle Groups, though I've decided they won't be necessary. For one, the main purpose of the other combat vessels would be power projection and escorting the carrier itself, which, as you noticed, is largely unnecessary in this scenario. The supply ships and oilers appear to be there primarily to provide fuel for the non-nuclear powered craft, as well as ammunition to the entire fleet. Given the situation, I don't think it would be too unrealistic to avoid having the fleet tag along.

I knew that. Almost lost a second cousin to one.

:) Around here one never can be sure whether someone will draw the connection between the two...