NationStates Jolt Archive

Yay, it's that time again. A few people did "what if" threads. I love that stuff, because it involves creativity, a lot of knowledge and it helps understand what was at stake and what made the world the way it is.

So, does anyone have some cool ones in the back of their heads?

Here's a few (some old, some new):

What if the American Revolutionaries were defeated?

What if the Continental Army were to have been encircled and destroyed somewhere, and the British and French made a peace treaty?

What if Standard Oil hadn't been destroyed?

The case itself wasn't necessarily based on the most powerful data. It looks like in many respects Standard Oil wasn't being a harmful monopoly at all, but then many think there were different reasons. Would the firm still be around today? Would it have taken over America?

What if WWI had been over by Christmas?

Say the Schlieffen Plan worked perfectly and Germany took Paris and defeated the Russians decisively enough for the Allies to ask for peace. What would have followed?

What if the Bolsheviks lost?

What if the October Revolution failed and Kerenski stayed in power? What about the Mensheviks? Or what if the Whites won the Civil War - what would Russia have been like?

What if there had never been a "New Deal"?

The New Deal was a very new approach to the role of government in the US. It had probably been on the way for some time, but the Depression and FDR's marketing skills got it across in a big way. It took literally decades for many of its parts to be superseded or phased out, and others are still around.

What if the Nazis hadn't taken over Weimar Germany?

Would it still be around? What would it be like?

What if Churchill hadn't been PM?

Say he died of...idunno...syphillis. Who would have led Britain into WWII and what would have changed?

What if Hitler hadn't attacked the Soviet Union?

Would Stalin have attacked instead? Would D-Day ever have happened? Would Europe still be under some sort of Nazi dictatorship?

What if the nukes hadn't been dropped and the USSR took part of Japan?

What would a communist half of Japan have looked like? What would it be like today...North Korea on meth and steroids, perhaps?

What if Chiang Kai-Chek won?

It was quite a feat to manage to lose to the communists. So what if Mao had eventually been killed somewhere fighting a desperate last stand (or more likely, fled to the USSR) and the Nationalists formed the Chinese government?

What if Reagan had been killed?

It was pretty close when Hinckley shot him. What if he had been killed right then only 69 days into the presidency and Bush senior had taken over?

Who would have won WWIII?

Not counting nuclear annihilation (which might not have been immediate), would the Warsaw Pact or NATO have won the battle in Europe?

What if Yitzhak Rabin hadn't been killed?

Would there be peace in Israel and Palestine today?

What if the American Revolutionaries were defeated?


Maple leaves flying over Iraq.

Lol, 'American' and 'Revolutionary' do not belong in the same sentence, more like a war between two rival bourgeois factions.

What if the American Revolutionaries were defeated?

the colonies probably would have been reorganized under something other than the articles of confederation. the colonists would have gone through a long period of serving as cannon fodder for the empire's many wars, sort of like the scots always had. if they were to ever break free and gain their independence, it would have been peaceful.



What if WWI had been over by Christmas?

then we might still have christian monarchs ruling europe. fascism, nazism, communism, world war two, the holocaust, the cold war, vietnam, korea, and everything that's going wrong in the middle east today would never have happened. there might have been alternate disasters, but a second congress of vienna might have been called which might have ensured peace for another century. bottom line on this one is that the bad guys won WWI.



What if the Bolsheviks lost?

kerensky's liberal democracy might have prevailed, and the monarchy might have eventually been reestablished along the lines of britain's monarchy. but the autocracy would probably have never been restored. also, world war two, the cold war, vietnam, koread, and everything that's going wrong in the middle east today would never have happened.



What if there had never been a "New Deal"?

the depression would have ended a hell of a lot quicker, and the US would not be the bloated welfare/warfare state that it is today.



What if the Nazis hadn't taken over Weimar Germany?

the communists would have, and there would have been much bloodshed.



What if Churchill hadn't been PM?

there probably wouldn't have been a war. not as quick as their was, anyway. it really depends on how hitler would have behaved in churchill's absence. poland and czechoslovakia would have definitely been overrun, but they were overrun after WW2 and that was alright fine with the allies.



What if Hitler hadn't attacked the Soviet Union?

the democracies and fascist states would have joined forces against the USSR and put an end to it. which is really what they should have done in the first place. yeah hitler was bad, but stalin had murdered tens of millions of innocent folks long before the nazi death camps opened.



What if the nukes hadn't been dropped and the USSR took part of Japan?

it would have been another korea or vietnam. we would have eventually fought the reds on japanese soil, lost tens of thousands of troops, and gained absolutely nothing. a better question is what if the US hadn't nuked the japs, but let them surrender way back when they first started begging us to let them...



What if Chiang Kai-Chek won?

china would've been a clusterfuck, it would have still been dominated and undermined by all the other powers. the reds would've eventually won.



What if Reagan had been killed?

daddy bush might've screwed everything up, or not. who knows.



Who would have won WWIII?

depends on what it would have been. wars will never be fought again as they have in the past, so there won't be another world war as we know them. right now we're fighting terrorists around the world, and it's pretty much at a standstill. eventually the west is gonna have to back off.



What if Yitzhak Rabin hadn't been killed?

he would have been voted out of office and netanyahu would have come around right on schedule.

Lol, 'American' and 'Revolutionary' do not belong in the same sentence, more like a war between two rival bourgeois factions.
So if you don't like that one, pick another one. There should be a few in there right up your alley.

i prefer; what if, there had never been a roman empire?

what if minoen crete had never fallen?

what if indiginous western hemisphere cultures had had the superior tecnology when european invaders had discouvered it?

the deeper what ifs, underpinning the common eronious prevailing assumptions about human nature and social culture.

what if electricity solar cells had been invented before oil and coal were discouvered?

you know, in my what if, there would never have been a hitler because there never would have been a middle ages because the library at alexandria would never have been burned because christianity, if something by that name had come into existence at all, would not have bred militant fanatics, because there had not been a roman empire for conquered colonies to have had to struggle against.

i know the common "logic" is to insist we'd still be living in grass huts and eating acorns, but we could just as easily be living in space ships having had the whole couple of millinea or longer to get there, instead of just little more then a century or two.

steam WAS known and could have been more efficiently harnessed to pull the sledges that fallowed or created the 'cartruts' in the quarys on malta.

we need only look to the east to an example of the influence of a newer belief on an old gained peacefully and cooperatively rather then through violent conflict. or so my impression goes. i'm talking about the influence of buddhism in shinto japan. but i'm sure there are or could be other examples elsewhere.

what if there had come to dominance a culture of universal respect not based on rank?

what if something resembling a modified form of potlatching had become or remained the norm, not requiring nor motivating the invention of the concept of symbolic value?

=^^=
.../\...

I love the list you have compiled here. When I"m feeling a bit better, I'll tackle some of them.

If the American Revolution as we know it had failed, America would have become a quagmire for the British. Once the Shot Heard Round the World was fired, there was no turning back. The Americans would not have settled for anything short of independence. It would have been years of guerilla warfare, culminating in the formation of the Second Continental Army around 1800. Assuming the French Revolution happened on schedule, the Americans would have allied with Napoleon.

If that had happened, there would have been an American front of the Napoleonic Wars. The British treasury would have been virtually depleted by the American war, and might not have been able to avert a disaster in North America. The worst-case scenario? Americans engulfs all British possesions in North America, except for Quebec, which becomes French.

The United States that arises from this would be quite different. The upper classes might not have survived a prolonged war, especially the plantation owners (slaves=easy recruits). Therefore, the US would be more populist. It would also be more militant, since the leaders would have been mostly soldiers and war heroes. The Constitution would reflect the nature of these people.

Good list, I'll do a couple now.

What if Churchill hadn't been PM?

Say he died of...idunno...syphillis. Who would have led Britain into WWII and what would have changed?
We would have had Viscount Halifax as our leader, which would have its positives and negatives - on the one hand, he would have kept his ridiculous military plans to himself, unlike Churchill, who was a rubbish strategist, and was an excellent diplomat.

On the other hand, he wasn't quite so charismatic as Churchill and would have had some trouble running the country, as he was a Lord rather than a member of the House of Commons.

We'd still probably have won, mind.
What if the nukes hadn't been dropped and the USSR took part of Japan?
Then MacArthur would have been pretty cheery, as it'd have been a million odd troops from the USSR getting killed instead of a million or so US soldiers.

On the other hand, the Russians were getting 10:1 kill ratios in the places where they did fight Japanese troops, so they might have done a better job of it, especially if the US used its bombers and battleships to help out the Soviets win the day.

Also, I think it would probably have ended much like Germany - the Russians would get one half and the US the other - probably north being capitalist and the south being a semi-autonomous, essentially communist state, being used to help supply Mao, Il-Sung and the Vietnamese when all that cooked off - although maybe the Korean and Vietnamese wars wouldn't have happened at all, due to the USSR having an outpost to threaten US interests in the Pacific.
Who would have won WWIII?
Probably the USSR, since in every single year from 1946-1989, the USSR had the advantage in terms of the most genuinely modern and revolutionary equipment, and if pressed, had a staggering amount of potential for war production.

That said, if western troops came into the DDR and weren't quickly repulsed, the East Germans might have joined up with the Wessis, causing a bit of a chain reaction.

[QUOTE=Mirkana;13384855]If the American Revolution as we know it had failed, America would have become a quagmire for the British. Once the Shot Heard Round the World was fired, there was no turning back. The Americans would not have settled for anything short of independence. It would have been years of guerilla warfare, culminating in the formation of the Second Continental Army around 1800. Assuming the French Revolution happened on schedule, the Americans would have allied with Napoleon.

If that had happened, there would have been an American front of the Napoleonic Wars. The British treasury would have been virtually depleted by the American war, and might not have been able to avert a disaster in North America. The worst-case scenario? Americans engulfs all British possesions in North America, except for Quebec, which becomes French.

The United States that arises from this would be quite different. The upper classes might not have survived a prolonged war, especially the plantation owners (slaves=easy recruits). Therefore, the US would be more populist. It would also be more militant, since the leaders would have been mostly soldiers and war heroes. The Constitution would reflect the nature of these people.[/QUOTE

I'm not so sure of this. After all, it is unlikely that every single American colonist was absolutely yearning to be free from British rule. Not that the British loyalists were in the majority; they were probably outnumbered handily by the revolutionaries. However, the die-hard revolutionaries probably only also be in the minority, as it is likely that the general populace would have simply preferred peace and normality. So while the ideals of revolution and independence might have garnered support from the general start at the outset of the war, after years of fighting, many people might have become quite unhappy with economic stagnation and so fourth caused by continuous and prolonged war, and perhaps would have seen the restoration of British rule as the quickest way to return to normality. After all, prior to French intervention in 1781, the revolutionary cause, to the best of my knowledge, wasn't exactly thriving. So if the French never assisted the Americans AND if the British weren't exactly harsh if they defeated the revolutionaries, America might have once again been incorporated into the British Empire.
In any case, the entire war might have been avoided if another "what if" occurred beforehand:

What if the British hadn't levied such high taxes and granted Americans representation in Parliament? What if the British government actually listened to the appeals of Prime Minister William Pitt (the Elder)?

If the American Revolution as we know it had failed, America would have become a quagmire for the British. Once the Shot Heard Round the World was fired, there was no turning back. The Americans would not have settled for anything short of independence. It would have been years of guerilla warfare, culminating in the formation of the Second Continental Army around 1800. Assuming the French Revolution happened on schedule, the Americans would have allied with Napoleon.

If that had happened, there would have been an American front of the Napoleonic Wars. The British treasury would have been virtually depleted by the American war, and might not have been able to avert a disaster in North America. The worst-case scenario? Americans engulfs all British possesions in North America, except for Quebec, which becomes French.

The United States that arises from this would be quite different. The upper classes might not have survived a prolonged war, especially the plantation owners (slaves=easy recruits). Therefore, the US would be more populist. It would also be more militant, since the leaders would have been mostly soldiers and war heroes. The Constitution would reflect the nature of these people.

I'm not so sure of this. After all, it is unlikely that every single American colonist was absolutely yearning to be free from British rule. Not that the British loyalists were in the majority; they were probably outnumbered handily by the revolutionaries. However, the die-hard revolutionaries probably only also be in the minority, as it is likely that the general populace would have simply preferred peace and normality. So while the ideals of revolution and independence might have garnered support from the general start at the outset of the war, after years of fighting, many people might have become quite unhappy with economic stagnation and so fourth caused by continuous and prolonged war, and perhaps would have seen the restoration of British rule as the quickest way to return to normality. After all, prior to French intervention in 1781, the revolutionary cause, to the best of my knowledge, wasn't exactly thriving. So if the French never assisted the Americans AND if the British weren't exactly harsh if they defeated the revolutionaries, America might have once again been incorporated into the British Empire.
In any case, the entire war might have been avoided if another "what if" occurred beforehand:

What if the British hadn't levied such high taxes and granted Americans representation in Parliament? What if the British government actually listened to the appeals of Prime Minister William Pitt (the Elder) and had decided NOT to use force to keep a lid on things?

I have one I like:
What if Jesus Christ had never been crucified?
For the sake of arguement here, let's assume Jesus existed. If he were never crucified and instead died a natural death, would the disciples have been able to spread his teachings as effectively? I think not, and thus, Christianity would never have become a major world religion.

This thread i like, it leaves endless room for speculation which is very hard to prove. (theme tune i nominate-Can i play with madness, Iron Maiden).
So lets see i'll pick one that isn't directly on your list;

What if Streseman who was chancellor of the Wiemar Republic of Germany from 1924-29, managed to live longer? Had he been around for longer he might have stabilised(or at least cushioned) the German economy(from e.g. the Wall street crash), stopping Hitler from getting the opportunity to take power, it might have had other repurcussions, (let's assume that Streseman out of some sheer Iron constitution lived right up to 1945),
The Spanish civil War might have had a stronger chance to be won by Communists, instead of Franco, Streseman wouldn't have armed Germany as manically as Hitler, would have improved relations further with France, this would in turn reduce hostility, and allow the league of nations to deal with Italy more thoroughly, in relation to their invasion of Abyssinia.
Relations might have been on edge with regards to Japan as it's unlikely any European power would have been able to stop them invading Manchuria.
(i'd like to point out that although Nevile Chamberlain PM of Britain did sign a treaty with Germany in i think 1938 it wasn't his fault alone Britain followed a policy of appeasement, Stanly Baldwin (PM of Britain before Nevile Chamberlain) was a major supporter of disarmament by the British, who were probably the only country in Europe who still disarmed, so this led to Chamberlain having no choice but to buy time to rearm the British).
Which might have reduced the severity of World War Two.

Well, I had a brief 'how' (rather than 'what if') the Confederate States had won the American Civil War while doing my revision a while ago, but that's probably already been done.

Well, I had a brief 'how' (rather than 'what if') the Confederate States had won the American Civil War while doing my revision a while ago, but that's probably already been done.

to a point. Harry Turtledove has an entire series out about what history could have been like if the Confederates had won the Civil War.

What if NSG never existed?

What if god never existed and was created by the first jews as a means for mass population control and was then copied by some assholes who created Christianity and Islam and then got murdered for Plagarism?

What if Jesus was a Robot?

What if Jesus was a Robot?

I could say, maybe we are all robots, none of us have actual freewill, just playing out the motions.

-snip-
There was still a chance for reconciliation right up until late 1775 after Lexington and Concord. Until mid 1776 the Colonies were pressing for their rights as Englishmen and subjects (as they saw themselves), the same rights that their kin in Great Britain had. The aim of the Revolution was not independence until much later. Even then, independence was only done when all other options had been exhausted and the last vestiges of affection to the monarchy shattered by Common Sense. Had events transpired differently after the Olive branch petition, for example, George III not issuing the proclamation of Rebellion and instead offering to negociate with Congress, which they would have doubtlessly preferred, things could have turned out differently.

What if Jesus wasn't a robot?

Then, he must be Raptor Jesus.

What if Jesus was an UZI-wielding Velociraptor?
The Bible might actually make an interesting read.

What if Jesus wasn't a robot?
What if Jesus was an UZI-wielding Velociraptor?

What if Jesus was an UZI-wielding Velociraptor?
The Bible might have looked something like this:

:mp5::gundge::sniper::upyours::sniper::mp5::gundge::headbang:

What if Churchill hadn't been PM?

Say he died of...idunno...syphillis. Who would have led Britain into WWII and what would have changed?Well, what if he had been killed by that cab?

I've always wondered what the world would have been like had there been no development of nuclear weapons.

Also, what if the Chinese had made contact with the American continent and spread diseases, gunpowder, and concepts of territory to the tribes living there, well before the Europeans met them?

Well, I had a brief 'how' (rather than 'what if') the Confederate States had won the American Civil War while doing my revision a while ago, but that's probably already been done.
Some guy went back in time and gave them AK47s?

Some guy went back in time and gave them AK47s?

Then i'd go back in time to stop them! (cue James Bond music), stop the evil time travelers, destroy the AK47's and warn the world about Hitler, job done happy ending.

Then i'd go back in time to stop them! (cue James Bond music), stop the evil time travelers, destroy the AK47's and warn the world about Hitler, job done happy ending.
*The Guns of the South reference totally lost*

What if Jesus was a Robot?

You would have gotten the Roma-Jewish version of this.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tcoVxbutl8g

*The Guns of the South reference totally lost*

HAHA! Probably never read Turtledove :D

Some guy went back in time and gave them AK47s?
Meh, I've only read The Two Georges.

I have one I like:
What if Science never became the dominant path of knowledge, and magic had? Would life be like a D&D game then?

Doesn't that question assume that "magic" actually is a "path of knowledge"?

Doesn't that question assume that "magic" actually is a "path of knowledge"?

It assumes many things, but still, is a what if question.

What if the American Revolutionaries were defeated?

What if the Continental Army were to have been encircled and destroyed somewhere, and the British and French made a peace treaty?


I foresee two possibilities:

1. The British would sit on the colony for some time until rebellion fermented again and the colonies rebelled, this time during Napoleon's rise. It would then go as Mirkana suggested.

2. The populace settles down and after awhile the United States--or some other name for the group of colonies--becomes its own Dominion and is part of the Commonwealth. This would have resulted in the U.S. being used more as cannon fodder for the British Empire than as their own selves. Odds are the world would be extremely different with a Commonwealth U.S. We probably wouldn't have purchased the Louisiana territory from France, and there's no telling if we'd have ever taken control of California, Nevada, Utah, (pieces of) Colorado, Wyoming, Oklahoma, and Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas from the Mexicans. We certainly would never have seen the CSA.


What if Standard Oil hadn't been destroyed?

The case itself wasn't necessarily based on the most powerful data. It looks like in many respects Standard Oil wasn't being a harmful monopoly at all, but then many think there were different reasons. Would the firm still be around today? Would it have taken over America?
I think we'd see a bit more of a corporatocracy in our government, but I don't know much about Standard Oil so I can't predict more than that.

What if WWI had been over by Christmas?

Say the Schlieffen Plan worked perfectly and Germany took Paris and defeated the Russians decisively enough for the Allies to ask for peace. What would have followed?

Germany would have conquered the Low Countries and significant portions of France, which would have created serious partisan problems for them for some time to come. I still see a possible conflict between Kaiser Germany and the Soviet Union if the Bolsheviks still attempt to seize power and succeed.

What if the Bolsheviks lost?

What if the October Revolution failed and Kerenski stayed in power? What about the Mensheviks? Or what if the Whites won the Civil War - what would Russia have been like?

Well, that depends on whether it would be more authoritarian if the Whites won, or if it would be more democratic if Kerenski won. I have no idea what the Mensheviks are...I've never heard of them before.

So I can't really predict anything here.

What if there had never been a "New Deal"?

The New Deal was a very new approach to the role of government in the US. It had probably been on the way for some time, but the Depression and FDR's marketing skills got it across in a big way. It took literally decades for many of its parts to be superseded or phased out, and others are still around.


Odds are we'd have a much more depressed populace throughout the 1930s, and we might have even had a new civil war on our hands had things been hard enough. The New Deal didn't solve the Depression but it most certainly did keep the populace happy, which was the key to staving off things like a Communist Revolution.

What if the Nazis hadn't taken over Weimar Germany?

Would it still be around? What would it be like?


Odds are some other faction would have taken over the Weimar Republic. Weimar Germany was just too unstable. The only way they could have held on would have been for the Great Depression to never occur, and that wasn't going to not happen because the primary reason for it would never have been learned in time, and the secondary reason wouldn't be abandoned until some time after World War II.

What if Churchill hadn't been PM?

Say he died of...idunno...syphillis. Who would have led Britain into WWII and what would have changed?

Lord Halifax most likely. I suspect we'd see some alterations in military strategy, but overall since Halifax was a competent leader, I think we'd see more or less the same outcome.

What if Hitler hadn't attacked the Soviet Union?

Would Stalin have attacked instead? Would D-Day ever have happened? Would Europe still be under some sort of Nazi dictatorship?


It all depends on how Hitler would have come to this decision. If he came to it due to an alteration in the Molotov Ribbentrop pact, odds are Stalin would not have attacked until some time in the future, possibly after Germany succeeded in winning World War II.

Had Hitler simply put it off for later, as would have been far more likely a possibility(take out Britain first and THEN the Soviets) I do think Stalin would have struck first to gain the crucial blow, especially with that extra time to build up his forces.

What if the nukes hadn't been dropped and the USSR took part of Japan?

What would a communist half of Japan have looked like? What would it be like today...North Korea on meth and steroids, perhaps?


Essentially. It would probably become much harder for the Japanese to reunite than it is for the Koreans to reunite, too, due to the differences in the situations.

But there's a far worse possibility here. If nuclear weapons were not used on Japan, they would have been first used somewhere else, possibly after several countries had a number of them. We might have seen a conflict between the USSR and the USA touching off a small-scale nuclear war.

What if Chiang Kai-Chek won?

It was quite a feat to manage to lose to the communists. So what if Mao had eventually been killed somewhere fighting a desperate last stand (or more likely, fled to the USSR) and the Nationalists formed the Chinese government?

Without a Communist China, the USSR would have lost a very valuable ally they relied upon throughout much of the Cold War. As such, I suspect they would have collapsed sooner, and meanwhile China would approach the path of democracy much more readily, especially if the USA smartly invested in building China back up after the huge clash between the various warlords, as the key to Chiang-Kai Shek maintaining power was to keep the country stable.

What if Reagan had been killed?

It was pretty close when Hinckley shot him. What if he had been killed right then only 69 days into the presidency and Bush senior had taken over?

I don't know. I don't know when this happened so I couldn't tell you.

But we'd probably see a Presidency much like we saw from George Bush senior in our own timeline, and with any luck we'd be rid of this stupid idea of Reagan being a fantastic president.

Who would have won WWIII?

Not counting nuclear annihilation (which might not have been immediate), would the Warsaw Pact or NATO have won the battle in Europe?

NATO. The Warsaw Pact had the advantage of numbers but NATO had the advantage of technology and superior quality, which would only have increased as time went on approaching the collapse of the USSR.

What if Yitzhak Rabin hadn't been killed?

Would there be peace in Israel and Palestine today?
Maybe.

As for the Soviets invading Japan, it's likely that they would have gotten Hokkaido (they were planning to invade it, after all). Once there, they would face the problem that most Japanese were still loyal to the (American-controlled) Emperor. To solve this problem, they would have put the Ainu in charge. Result? Ethnic Japanese flee Hokkaido in droves, and the Ainu become the majority.

Eventually, the People's Republic of Japan would have become the People's Republic of Ainu Mosir (the Ainu term for Hokkaido (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokkaido)), as the Ainu have no interest in reuniting with the rest of Japan. The Ainu language would become official, replacing Japanese.

Ainu Mosir would have remained within the Soviet sphere of influence throughout the Cold War. In response to the presence of a hostile northern neighbor, Japan would have developed an army sometime in the 1950s. However, the Japanese would have realized that while Pyongyang, Berlin, and Hanoi would like to conquer their US-allied counterparts, Sapporo had no interest in invading Japan. A Japanese-Ainu war would only happen in the context of a larger war, ie World War III. Therefore, the Japanese would not have developed nearly as powerful an army as the Germans. The Japanese Defense Forces would favor their navy and especially air force. The Ainu would do the same.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, Ainu Mosir would retain its independence. They would probably be officially Communist to this day, but more along the lines of Vietnam than North Korea.

I have one I like:
What if Science never became the dominant path of knowledge, and magic had? Would life be like a D&D game then?

Roll a 20D to be born!

You cannot roll a dice with your pitiful fetus hands, you are never born!

Roll a 20D to be born!

You cannot roll a dice with your pitiful fetus hands, you are never born!

Instead of invasion of Iraq, we'd have 20lvl Dubya infiltrating the castle of evil emperor Saddam and killing him personally with his Presidential Washington's Sword +5 :)

Instead of invasion of Iraq, we'd have 20lvl Dubya infiltrating the castle of evil emperor Saddam and killing him personally with his Presidential Washington's Sword +5 :)

Reminds me of that one Futurama episode where Fry ends up not going to the 30th century causing everything to be sucked into oblivion, and Al Gore and the others sit around playing D&D for eternity.
"I'm a Tenth Level President!"

Roll a 20D to be born!

You cannot roll a dice with your pitiful fetus hands, you are never born!

Every birthday we'd pick a new feat out of the Player's handbook?

What if the internet had never caught on?

Counterfactual history is the preserve of the amateur, immature historian. Requisite to a counterfactual history is a definitve version of the past from which to construct an alternate; this, very simply, is impossible.

Counterfactual history requires no more creativity or knowledge than real, academic, history; rather, it simply allows those lacking the ability, inclination or discipline to study genuine history to pretent they are being progressive in studying a branch of history few have time for.

Every birthday we'd pick a new feat out of the Player's handbook?

Screw that, I'm gonna grab my splatbooks and take a level in Dashing Swordsman.
Or just some Divine Metamagic if Dashing Swordsman is banned(what with it not existing outside of a webcomic and all...)

Counterfactual history is the preserve of the amateur, immature historian. Requisite to a counterfactual history is a definitve version of the past from which to construct an alternate; this, very simply, is impossible.

Counterfactual history requires no more creativity or knowledge than real, academic, history; rather, it simply allows those lacking the ability, inclination or discipline to study genuine history to pretent they are being progressive in studying a branch of history few have time for.

Oh screw your opinion. It's fun.

Oh screw your opinion. It's fun.

So is sex, but I don't feel the need to give that a veneer of academic credibility.

So is sex, but I don't feel the need to give that a veneer of academic credibility.

No one here is. Quit acting elitist.

No one here is. Quit acting elitist.

err...no. I quite like the fact I've actually studied history, and am doing so, at a decent level, and I see little reason to descend down into the murky depths you seem to rejoice in and pretend that a history that is methodologically and inherently flawed is worthwhile.

What if the Bolsheviks lost?

kerensky's liberal democracy might have prevailed, and the monarchy might have eventually been reestablished along the lines of britain's monarchy. but the autocracy would probably have never been restored. also, world war two, the cold war, vietnam, koread, and everything that's going wrong in the middle east today would never have happened.

No. The monarchy wouldn't have been restored. And none of that stuff you mentioned was caused by the USSR.

What if there had never been a "New Deal"?

the depression would have ended a hell of a lot quicker, and the US would not be the bloated welfare/warfare state that it is today.
That's pure bull. It would've taken 2-3 times as long as it did to fix. Stop living in your libertarian happyland.

What if Hitler hadn't attacked the Soviet Union?

the democracies and fascist states would have joined forces against the USSR and put an end to it. which is really what they should have done in the first place. yeah hitler was bad, but stalin had murdered tens of millions of innocent folks long before the nazi death camps opened.
No. They wouldn't have joined forces. The USSR just would have been by itself. Hitler would have overrun Europe and probably signed a treaty with USSR or been able to defeat Stalin on a one-sided front. Stalin did not murder tens of millions. He had at most about a million political enemies killed. A few million died in famines that would have killed that many regardless of the government and economy type.


What if the nukes hadn't been dropped and the USSR took part of Japan?

it would have been another korea or vietnam. we would have eventually fought the reds on japanese soil, lost tens of thousands of troops, and gained absolutely nothing. a better question is what if the US hadn't nuked the japs, but let them surrender way back when they first started begging us to let them...
They didn't beg for shit. Wtf are you smoking?

What if Reagan had been killed?

daddy bush might've screwed everything up, or not. who knows.
We'd be much better off and wouldn't have such retarded economic beliefs and political divisions.

err...no. I quite like the fact I've actually studied history, and am doing so, at a decent level, and I see little reason to descend down into the murky depths you seem to rejoice in and pretend that a history that is methodologically and inherently flawed is worthwhile.

Great. That's a lovely opinion. You don't want to do it. Fine. Thank you for sharing that opinion.

Leave us to be to do it if we want.

Counterfactual history is the preserve of the amateur, immature historian. Requisite to a counterfactual history is a definitve version of the past from which to construct an alternate; this, very simply, is impossible.

Counterfactual history requires no more creativity or knowledge than real, academic, history; rather, it simply allows those lacking the ability, inclination or discipline to study genuine history to pretent they are being progressive in studying a branch of history few have time for.

Oh please. Like we could more easily understand what happened and why when we wouldn't know what COULD have happened. We wouldn't know because we wouldn't give a damn.

Sometimes, to understand what happened, we need to understand what COULD have happened and why it didn't happen. This leads to an overall better understanding of history and how to deal with current and future events. After all, don't we learn historym not out of pure intellectual curiousity, but because history can, and does, repeat itself?

It is an enjoyable diversion that also enhances our understanding of why certain events happened the way they did.

Counterfactual history is the preserve of the amateur, immature historian. Requisite to a counterfactual history is a definitve version of the past from which to construct an alternate; this, very simply, is impossible.

Oh brother. I'm an actual historian but I'll be damned if I do not love alternate history. I love alternate history and my library has alternate history books in it along with real world historical books as well. Get a life.

Counterfactual history requires no more creativity or knowledge than real, academic, history; rather, it simply allows those lacking the ability, inclination or discipline to study genuine history to pretent they are being progressive in studying a branch of history few have time for.

*dies of laughter*

Oh brother. I'm an actual historian



*dies of laughter*
This applies to you as well.

This applies to you as well.

What does?

Counterfactual history requires no more creativity or knowledge than real, academic, history; rather, it simply allows those lacking the ability, inclination or discipline to study genuine history to pretent they are being progressive in studying a branch of history few have time for.

How can you come to any useful conclusions from history if you don't consider the counterfactual?

What if the American Revolutionaries were defeated?

US would have eventually been released. Just like many of Britains African colonies. but the world would be COMPLETELY different.

What if Standard Oil hadn't been destroyed?

America would have a lot more oil and we'd be having less problems.

What if WWI had been over by Christmas?

Germany would have gone through rocky periods, because the French and others would have resented the Germans. Eventually revolution would have broken out. And the UK would have helped big time because Germany wouldn't have gotten them. No WWII. And the US gets to maintain its isolationist policy.

What if the Bolsheviks lost?

No Communist Russia? Interesting. Perhaps a more gradual shift to Democracy.

What if there had never been a "New Deal"?

The US would have made a slow recovery back.

What if the Nazis hadn't taken over Weimar Germany?

Yes. But there would have been some radical changes in leadership.

What if Churchill hadn't been PM?

Longer war with the same result.

What if Hitler hadn't attacked the Soviet Union?

Germany would have won if the USSR didn't turn on them first.

What if the nukes hadn't been dropped and the USSR took part of Japan?
North Korea on meth and steroids, perhaps? Pretty much. But I think it would have shifted to democracy after the fall of the USSR and made a huge turn around with the US guiding the newly reunited Japan.

What if Chiang Kai-Chek won?

Unstable democracy.

What if Reagan had been killed?

Well better America, but oh wait Bush takes over. He does nothing. Doesn't quite give the USSR that final nudge. (but note it took the US over 60 years to defeat Communism! Reagan didn't do it!!) I guess someone else wins in '89 and finally beats the USSR.

Who would have won WWIII?

NATO

What if Yitzhak Rabin hadn't been killed?

No.