NationStates Jolt Archive

Lets say Iraq becomes a somewhat stable democracy and a somewhat free society with a healthy economy and so on, would this be a victory for the US and allies? Further would this end result make the invasion worth it?

1. Thats a pretty big IF.
2. Yes, it's what we've been trying to do.
3. No, the intrusions on our freedom would only escalate, the scaremongerers would find some other target. Nothing is worth that.
BB...BB...BB...BB...

1. Yes
2. No

Only if the leaders went in to spread freedom, which I doubt. Then again, if it was truly stable and we created a democratic foothold in the Middle-East, maybe just maybe things might change. But who am I to say that, I'm an optimist.

1) Yes it would have been a victory

2) Depends on what the alternate outcomes are. If that is the best possible outcome For instance if we didn't invade and it somehow caused even more pain, death and conflict, invading would have been 'worth it'. But since we will never know what each outcome could be, it's impossible to answer.

There is no way, or at least only a sliver of a chance, that Iraq will stabilize, seeing how it is already a flawed state (in that it imposes the rule of one group, whatever it may be, over the other two.) The only reason there is stability is because Iran has told the Shiites to simmer down so as to increase their credibility in the face of Bush's push for war.

Would it have been worth it? No, not really.

But have fun invading Iran, North Korea, Sudan, Cuba, Somalia (again), China, Belarus, Syria, Saudi-Arabia etc...

It would be a victory, but it would only lead to more invasions. US success in Greece was used partly as reason to go into Vietnam... we all know how that turned out.

If it happens (not likely, but I see no acceptable alternative), it would be a victory. Would it be worth it? It would be worth the initial effort. However, we screwed up badly after the invasion, and now we're trying to clean up our own mess, so it will take many more resources than should have been necessary. If we had done things differently, we might have been able to prevent the near-anarchy that now consumes Iraq, and we'd be out of there.

I don't think we should avoid forcing regime change like this in the future, assuming we do succeed in Iraq. But before we do this again, we need a plan that:
a) Was written by a panel of experts on the target nation, Iraq war veterans, intelligence analysts, and current military officers, and given access to all relevant information.
b) Took at least 6 months to come up with, assuming the panel is in session five days a week from nine to five, holidays excluded.
c) When stored as an uncompressed computer file, takes up at least 1 GB of memory
d) When stored as paper, weighs more than the heaviest member of said panel

Any President who tries to do this without such a plan should be shot.

Lets say Iraq becomes a somewhat stable democracy and a somewhat free society with a healthy economy and so on, would this be a victory for the US and allies? Further would this end result make the invasion worth it?

yes it would be a victory for us.

no it wouldnt have made the killing of so many people worth it.

The terrorists and insurgents are just bored.

The terrorists and insurgents are just bored.

Totally! If we just gave them twister and monopoly, we'd solve all this insurgency business! :p

The terrorists and insurgents are just bored.

Yeah, I'd be bored too if I was dead.

Would it have been worth it? No, not really.

But have fun invading Iran, North Korea, Sudan, Cuba, Somalia (again), China, Belarus, Syria, Saudi-Arabia etc...

I don't know that we'll invade China. I can make no garentee's about the other 8.

I don't know that we'll invade China. I can make no garentee's about the other 8.

Why not? China is not a real democracy, the human rights record is atrocious, and it's got weapons that can be used against the US. A clear target!

Here's a gun and a watermelon! Now go, go, GO!

:p

Yeah, I'd be bored too if I was dead.

It's funny because you're disconnected from reality.

It's funny because you're disconnected from reality.

http://generalitemafia.ipbfree.com/uploads/ipbfree.com/generalitemafia/emo-music024.gif :p

I'd certainly be very happy. And it would certainly be the best-case scenario, so if we take today as a starting point, it would be a victory.

But the question on whether or not it would have been worth it has to include the years of bloodshed up to now. Considering the damage done not just in the form of the dead and injured, but also in people's minds, I think it would be very hard to unequivocally say that invading Iraq would have been a good thing.

Saddam was a bastard who deserved to be deposed. But the way it was done has led to a result that you can't really call any better.

Anyways, Iraq can only stabilise if its government gets its act together, and I don't see it just yet. Just there being more and better security forces on the ground doesn't make for a stable country in the long term.

If it stablises, and that's a big if, then yes it would be a victory.

I don't think it would have been worth it though, because of the enormous death toll so far & the damage/hatred it has caused towards the west.

If it stabalizes (and unlike most people on this board, in my mind that "if" is getting smaller and smaller), yes, it would be a huge victory. We would gain invaluable lessons about how to conduct a deposition, in case the need ever arises in the future (which unfourtunatley it might, if somebody goes crazy, however unlikely that may be.)

But worth it? Worth it compared to what? There was definatley a lotta planning details that could have been worked out much better, and that would have definatley made it "worth it" in my mind (such as at least waiting until we were done in Afghanistan...) but as of right now? Perhaps. We will see. Its like that story in the end of "Charlie Wilson's War." We will only be able to guess at a bare minimum 25 years from when it stabalizes (when the next generation begins to emerge and shape the country), possibley more if its still divided.

Lets say Iraq becomes a somewhat stable democracy and a somewhat free society with a healthy economy and so on, would this be a victory for the US and allies?

The victory happened when Hussein died.

Further would this end result make the invasion worth it?

No. It cost far too much money when we are already in debt.

The only reason why Iraq is getting better is because the Insurgants(Former Saddam\Local Groups) are tired of the Terrorists(Al-Qaeda) blowing up their country and killing off their leaders who don't want a "World Wide Islamic Empire"

The only reason why Iraq is getting better is because the Insurgants(Former Saddam\Local Groups) are tired of the Terrorists(Al-Qaeda) blowing up their country and killing off their leaders who don't want a "World Wide Islamic Empire"

*Cough* Mahdi Army ceasefire *cough*

http://www.newsweek.com/id/96370