NationStates Jolt Archive

I was posting in another thread, and I got off on a bit of a rant, so I cut it and put it here:

If you want to call yourself African-American, your family better have come over in the last few generations. If not, you're an American, just like everyone else. I don't call myself European-American, because my great-great-grandmother was born in Scotland. And from what my grandmother tells me, if you asked her mother, a first generation American, what she was, she would have said she was an American, and she would have been damn proud. And my grandmother (2nd generation American) would never, ever, say that she was anything else but a proud American.
So even if you want to say that black people weren't truly Americans until 1957, that was 52 years ago. Most of the people on this forum weren't born yet. Many of your fathers may not have been born yet. So call yourself an American and be proud.

I know this isn't PC, but this is the Internet. If you don't like it, there's a little red x in the top right of your screen. Click on that, and my rant will disappear. (Red circle in the top left, for the mac users. Linux users, I think it's generally an x in the top right, but it changes with your distribution. Alt-F4 works, too)

I know this isn't PC, but this is the Internet. If you don't like it, there's a little red x in the top right of your screen. Click on that, and my rant will disappear. (Red circle in the top left, for the mac users. Linux users, I think it's generally an x in the top right, but it changes with your distribution. Alt-F4 works, too)

What, are you new to the internet or something? If someone doesn't like it there's a whole other button they hit, called "Reply" and then they tell you exactly how much they don't like it, in what ways they don't like it, ways they think it's wrong, and probably what you can do with a few choice orifices. Enjoy.

Full of crap

Full of crap

Yeah, black power!

You know this isn't PC? WOAH! REBEL!

I can't believe the bravery of this stand up white guy who doesn't even care that the PC police will be coming round to shoot him for these words. A true hero, his martyrdom is appreciated by all.

You know this isn't PC? WOAH! REBEL!

I can't believe the bravery of this stand up white guy who doesn't even care that the PC police will be coming round to shoot him for these words. A true hero, his martyrdom is appreciated by all.

And with the long history of white repression under the Black Majority, the poor guy is fighting against all odds. I can almost see his little fists clenched in ferocity. God Bless America.

I want to be called Sex Beast. :)
*Backs away quickly from LG* I'm just, uh, gonna stand over here now, m'k?

If you want to call yourself African-American, your family better have come over in the last few generations.

Because, what, you said so?

I was posting in another thread, and I got off on a bit of a rant, so I cut it and put it here:

If you want to call yourself African-American, your family better have come over in the last few generations. If not, you're an American, just like everyone else. I don't call myself European-American, because my great-great-grandmother was born in Scotland. And from what my grandmother tells me, if you asked her mother, a first generation American, what she was, she would have said she was an American, and she would have been damn proud. And my grandmother (2nd generation American) would never, ever, say that she was anything else but a proud American.
So even if you want to say that black people weren't truly Americans until 1957, that was 52 years ago. Most of the people on this forum weren't born yet. Many of your fathers may not have been born yet. So call yourself an American and be proud.

I know this isn't PC, but this is the Internet. If you don't like it, there's a little red x in the top right of your screen. Click on that, and my rant will disappear. (Red circle in the top left, for the mac users. Linux users, I think it's generally an x in the top right, but it changes with your distribution. Alt-F4 works, too)


I have a nutty idea; why don't you focus on what you want to be called and let everyone else focus on what they want to be called.

I want to be called Sex Beast. :)

You don't really get a say in what people decide to call themselves. If you don't like the term, don't use it.

I have a nutty idea; why don't you focus on what you want to be called and let everyone else focus on what they want to be called.

I want to be called Sex Beast. :)

ditto

*Backs away quickly from LG* I'm just, uh, gonna stand over here now, m'k?

It won't help. And mace just makes me hornier. :)

I want to be called Sex Beast. :)

Noted. =)

In my experiance, all of my black friends don't like being called "African American." In fact, they hate it. "Black" does just fine for them.

Anyways, I don't give a damn what anyone calls themselves. In fact, I'm going to call myself "Whale-American" from now on becuase my great-grandfather was, in fact, a Sperm Whale.

It won't help. And mace just makes me hornier. :)

Soap though, just makes it vanish. I have this theory that LG is actually a sapient construct made out of 3-dimensional mud based inks, and soap actually breaks down the molecular bonds that holds him together.

*starts parceling out extra strength soap*

You don't really get a say in what people decide to call themselves. If you don't like the term, don't use it.


As usual, the correct answer was furnished on page 1 of the thread.

Soap though, just makes it vanish. I have this theory that LG is actually a sapient construct made out of 3-dimensional mud based inks, and soap actually breaks down the molecular bonds that holds him together.

*starts parceling out extra strength soap*

:eek:

Shit!

:eek:

Shit!

Just cleaning up your act LG. Just cleaning up your act. :p

Maybe this is relevant, but mostly I think it's just funny:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=your_stupid_ideas

I was posting in another thread, and I got off on a bit of a rant, so I cut it and put it here:

If you want to call yourself African-American, your family better have come over in the last few generations. If not, you're an American, just like everyone else. I don't call myself European-American, because my great-great-grandmother was born in Scotland. And from what my grandmother tells me, if you asked her mother, a first generation American, what she was, she would have said she was an American, and she would have been damn proud. And my grandmother (2nd generation American) would never, ever, say that she was anything else but a proud American.
So even if you want to say that black people weren't truly Americans until 1957, that was 52 years ago. Most of the people on this forum weren't born yet. Many of your fathers may not have been born yet. So call yourself an American and be proud.

I know this isn't PC, but this is the Internet. If you don't like it, there's a little red x in the top right of your screen. Click on that, and my rant will disappear. (Red circle in the top left, for the mac users. Linux users, I think it's generally an x in the top right, but it changes with your distribution. Alt-F4 works, too)
Jesus Christ is it so hard to figure out that for the most part they are just using it as a polite way to describe their dark skin or features rather then trying to differentiate from being "American"

Its not exactly rocket science

I was posting in another thread, and I got off on a bit of a rant, so I cut it and put it here:

If you want to call yourself African-American, your family better have come over in the last few generations. If not, you're an American, just like everyone else. I don't call myself European-American, because my great-great-grandmother was born in Scotland. And from what my grandmother tells me, if you asked her mother, a first generation American, what she was, she would have said she was an American, and she would have been damn proud. And my grandmother (2nd generation American) would never, ever, say that she was anything else but a proud American.
So even if you want to say that black people weren't truly Americans until 1957, that was 52 years ago. Most of the people on this forum weren't born yet. Many of your fathers may not have been born yet. So call yourself an American and be proud.

I know this isn't PC, but this is the Internet. If you don't like it, there's a little red x in the top right of your screen. Click on that, and my rant will disappear. (Red circle in the top left, for the mac users. Linux users, I think it's generally an x in the top right, but it changes with your distribution. Alt-F4 works, too)I agree with you.

I dislike it very much when someone refers to me as African American. I'm not from Africa. I'm from America, hence an American.

I call them blacks. If someone tries to tell me to use 'African-American', I tell them to basically fuck off, and continue to use the word black.

I call them blacks. If someone tries to tell me to use 'African-American', I tell them to basically fuck off, and continue to use the word black.

Yeah I mean there is no reason to be nice to people ... I mean hell that is like way many more syllables and that is too much effort

I agree with you.

I dislike it very much when someone refers to me as African American. I'm not from Africa. I'm from America, hence an American.

Then politely ask that person to refer to you in the manner that you prefer ... no reason to dislike it until they do not comply with a reasonable request.

Then politely ask that person to refer to you in the manner that you prefer ... no reason to dislike it until they do not comply with a reasonable request.There's a lot of reason to dislike it.

For one, no one refers to white people as European-American very often, if ever, and so I don't see why black people who are just as American as the rest have to have African slapped in front of it.

If I suddenly started to refer to white people as European-American, I'd get odd stares, but not if I was to say African-American. Yet, they're both silly unless said person is actually a European/African-American.

There's a lot of reason to dislike it.

For one, no one refers to white people as European-American very often, if ever, and so I don't see why black people who are just as American as the rest have to have African slapped in front of it.

If I suddenly started to refer to white people as European-American, I'd get odd stares, but not if I was to say African-American. Yet, they're both silly unless said person is actually a European/African-American.

Thats because European American is not common nomenclature ... so what some things are more common in the language thats normal.

Its all about a way to describe a subset of people ... with people of my skin color and makup "white" is the common phrase ... if it was European American I would expect that unless otherwise requested

What would you prefer to be called to physically describe or at least approximate your feature set?

This all seems to be a rather silly argument to me

I call them my brothas from anotha motha.

Well, I call everyone that.

Thats because European American is not common nomenclature ... so what some things are more common in the language thats normal.
Fair enough.

Its all about a way to describe a subset of people ... with people of my skin color and makeup "white" is the common phrase ... if it was European American I would expect that unless otherwise requestedTrue, I just feel... rather suspicious of people who say African-American rather than, say, black. I don't know why.

What would you prefer to be called to physically describe or at least approximate your feature set?Black is good.

This all seems to be a rather silly argument to meI didn't/don't consider it an argument. :confused:

I was posting in another thread, and I got off on a bit of a rant, so I cut it and put it here:

If you want to call yourself African-American, your family better have come over in the last few generations. If not, you're an American, just like everyone else. I don't call myself European-American, because my great-great-grandmother was born in Scotland. And from what my grandmother tells me, if you asked her mother, a first generation American, what she was, she would have said she was an American, and she would have been damn proud. And my grandmother (2nd generation American) would never, ever, say that she was anything else but a proud American.
So even if you want to say that black people weren't truly Americans until 1957, that was 52 years ago. Most of the people on this forum weren't born yet. Many of your fathers may not have been born yet. So call yourself an American and be proud.

I know this isn't PC, but this is the Internet. If you don't like it, there's a little red x in the top right of your screen. Click on that, and my rant will disappear. (Red circle in the top left, for the mac users. Linux users, I think it's generally an x in the top right, but it changes with your distribution. Alt-F4 works, too)
If you are offended by something as petty as what term people use to refer to themselves, you should ask yourself why. I would guess that you probably just don't like black people.

I have a nutty idea; why don't you focus on what you want to be called and let everyone else focus on what they want to be called.

I want to be called Sex Beast. :)

I want to be know as Trevorlicious Framboise Xcalibur.

I call everyone Black, White, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc.

I want to be known as Ace Pilot! :D *runs out of the room with his arms out like wings and airplane noise*

Because, what, you said so?

You act like that isn't sufficient justification! Do you know who this guy IS? *pause* Me either. But he made a thread about it, so he must be an authority!

I have a nutty idea; why don't you focus on what you want to be called and let everyone else focus on what they want to be called.

But that sounds so much less complicated and controversial...

I want to be called Sex Beast. :)

Okay, but the last few generations of your family better have been sex beasts!

I agree with you.

I dislike it very much when someone refers to me as African American. I'm not from Africa. I'm from America, hence an American.

And most of my black friends feel the same way, not to mention the fact that most African immigrants I know do not appreciate being lumped together in the same category. But the point is that YOU get to choose what you're called--not some random guy who's annoyed by having to say a few extra syllables.

In my experiance, all of my black friends don't like being called "African American." In fact, they hate it. "Black" does just fine for them.

Anyways, I don't give a damn what anyone calls themselves. In fact, I'm going to call myself "Whale-American" from now on becuase my great-grandfather was, in fact, a Sperm Whale.

Funny that. My great-grandfather merely produced sperm, and I have no desire for anyone to call me a 'Sperm-American'.

This may, however, have more to do with the fact that I'm not an American rather than to any natural (or unnatural) aversion to sperm on my part.


More seriously, it's worth pointing out that 'Euro-American' does in fact enjoy currency in academia. For my sins, I edit a professional archaeology newsletter and have guest-edited archaeology journals in the past, and 'African-American', 'Asian-American' and 'Euro-American' are all used by American archaeologists.

So call yourself an American and be proud.sacrificing your ethnic identity to the service of a national regime is the responsible thing to do! hooah! being proud of the country you were born in makes about as much sense as being proud of the weather.

I think it's kind of fucked up to refer to any dark-skinned American as "African American." They're AMERICANS. No modifier required. "American" isn't a word reserved only for white people.

There are Americans of many ethnicities who are immigrants from African nations. Those are African-Americans. There are Americans who are recent immigrants from Europe, and they are European-Americans. But there are black Americans who immigrated here from Europe, and white Americans who immigrated here from Africa, and it's fucking stupid to assume that somebody with white skin must have always been here (i.e. just plain old American) while somebody with non-white skin must be some OTHER kind of American.

I want to be called Sex Beast. :)

OK

*waves to LG*

Hi sex beast

I want to be know as Trevorlicious Framboise Xcalibur.

Too long, can we just shorten it to TFX?

I was posting in another thread, and I got off on a bit of a rant, so I cut it and put it here:

If you want to call yourself African-American, your family better have come over in the last few generations. If not, you're an American, just like everyone else. I don't call myself European-American, because my great-great-grandmother was born in Scotland. And from what my grandmother tells me, if you asked her mother, a first generation American, what she was, she would have said she was an American, and she would have been damn proud. And my grandmother (2nd generation American) would never, ever, say that she was anything else but a proud American.
So even if you want to say that black people weren't truly Americans until 1957, that was 52 years ago. Most of the people on this forum weren't born yet. Many of your fathers may not have been born yet. So call yourself an American and be proud.

I know this isn't PC, but this is the Internet. If you don't like it, there's a little red x in the top right of your screen. Click on that, and my rant will disappear. (Red circle in the top left, for the mac users. Linux users, I think it's generally an x in the top right, but it changes with your distribution. Alt-F4 works, too)

While I agree that 'African-American' is a stupid term, I fail to see any reason to get worked up over it

I'm going to call myself "Whale-American" from now on because my great-grandfather was, in fact, a Sperm Whale.

*must refrain from making the obvious comment about the growing obesity problem in the USA, leading among many other countries*


Anyhow, as to the thread topic, I'm not one for hyphenation in general, and against ethnic euphemisms to denote other features specifically.
As, I think, Bottle already pointed out, there is no absolute correlation between African descent and 'black' skin color, and there's neither need nor justification to not call people of a certain skincolor by a name that is derivative of said skincolor.

I am, by the by, a descendant from a family of people who all have a distinctive dimple in their ass-cheeks. I refuse to be called a dimple-ass German, though, and I'm fine to call people with black-ish skincolor whatever they feel I should call them, if they have similar issues with being called blacks.

So are you Chinese or Japanese?

<SNIP> I refuse to be called a dimple-ass German, though, and I'm fine to call people with black-ish skincolor whatever they feel I should call them, if they have similar issues with being called blacks.

Meh, who cares about the opinion of a Dimple-Ass-German anyways? ;)

I don't understand why a guy who's never been in Africa and probably couldn't point to it on a map is called "African-American" and someone who is FROM Africa can't just because the non-African needs a lot less sunscreen than the pale-skinned South African.

Silly people, African has more meanings than 'someone from Africa'.

Silly people, African has more meanings than 'someone from Africa'.

Yeah, it also often refers to interior decoration goods and means "produced by cheap labor somewhere in whatnot-istan so as to vaguely resemble some wannabe-rich white person's idea of something "traditionally African" that they can put in their home and feel all ethno-cool lifestylish with without ever setting a single toe into Africa and/or knowing crap all about any of its culture".

That doesn't make it any better.

I have a nutty idea; why don't you focus on what you want to be called and let everyone else focus on what they want to be called.

I want to be called Sex Beast. :)

You got it, Sex Beast.

ditto

You too, Sex beast.

I call them my brothas from anotha motha.

Well, I call everyone that.

Even women?:confused:

I want to be know as Trevorlicious Framboise Xcalibur.

No.

I call everyone Black, White, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc.

I want to be known as Ace Pilot! :D *runs out of the room with his arms out like wings and airplane noise*

Sure, Ace. See, Boony? If you had chosen something easy, you'd be earning the same respect as our friend acting like a four year old.

On topic: I use black. I haven't had a single black person say anything about that. If someone does, I'll change. Whatever. I find nomenclature for First Nations people more difficult: aboriginal, native, Indian, First People, etc.

I tend to use the name of the community, e.g. Mark Bear is a Mistissinni Cree. David is a Mohawk. If I'm talking the whole 'race', I use the term First Nations. But what about a term for an individual, and I don't know their nation or community? First Nations person sounds weird, and I don't think even my indian friends would know what I was talking about.

I have a nutty idea; why don't you focus on what you want to be called and let everyone else focus on what they want to be called.

I want to be called Sex Beast. :)

I wanted 'Nodhotep, Ruler of All' but think 'El Bastardo' has more of a ring to it.

So call yourself an American and be proud.

Funny, lately whenever I say Im an American to a forgeiner it is usually said in a meek voice while hanging my head in shame. Hopefully that can change next election.


Anyway, good thread, keep on fighting the oprresive power of the PC police, you brave brave man you:rolleyes:


ps- In the future, all shall refer to me as His Satanic Majesty

The British Home Office insists that as far as possible the police should record the ethnic background of everyone we deal with. They have a list called the 16+1 (that is, 16 ethnic backgrounds plus "not stated" for whatever reason).

3 of the 16 are in the 'black' category: A1 is Black Caribbean, A2 is Black African, A9 is Black Other. About nine out of every ten black people I ask to "define their ethnic background" (as the jargon has it) reply "Black British, innit".

My conversations on the subject with the many Kurdish or Tamil people around where I work are even better:

Me: So, define your ethnic background please.
Him: What?
Me: Where are you from?
Him: London.
Me: OK, where's your family from?
Him: Why do you want to know?
Me: I have to put it on this form to make sure I'm not being racist.
Him: Ah, OK, we are Tamil.
Me: That's not on my list. I can offer you A9 (Asian Other), is that OK?
Him: But there are lots of Tamils here, why is it not on the list?
Me: Because the government didn't write the list very well.
Him: Well, I don't want to be "Asian Other", I'm Tamil.
Me: If it makes you feel any better, I'm W9 (White Other).
Him: Really? Well, can I be O9 (Other Other) then?
Me: You can be whatever you like - it doesn't matter what's true, it's what you say that's important.
Him: OK then, put me down as W2 (White Irish).
Me: Good enough for me.

I can see why it's done (the UK police have historically had really bad problems with racism, so it makes sense to check up on us), but it's been done in such a horribly cack-handed way.

To finally get to the point: if 10th-generation immigrants want to call themselves African American, what skin is it off anyone else's nose? To all decent people it doesn't normally matter what another person's colour or nationality or ethnic background is anyway, much less what they choose to call it.

I don't like the term African American, but not for the reasons for the OP. I don't like it because it sounds like you are trying to avoid saying black, as if black were offensive (there should be nothing offensive about the colour of your skin).

Funny, lately whenever I say Im an American to a forgeiner it is usually said in a meek voice while hanging my head in shame. Hopefully that can change next election.


Anyway, good thread, keep on fighting the oprresive power of the PC police, you brave brave man you:rolleyes:


Hes vewy bwave indeed.

Do muslims have the week off?
If its two weeks, is it the Mexicans who fill in next?

Yeah, it also often refers to interior decoration goods and means "produced by cheap labor somewhere in whatnot-istan so as to vaguely resemble some wannabe-rich white person's idea of something "traditionally African" that they can put in their home and feel all ethno-cool lifestylish with without ever setting a single toe into Africa and/or knowing crap all about any of its culture".

That doesn't make it any better.

Much anger I sense in you, young SoWiBi. It generally means of or relating to Africa. My point was that things can be related to Africa without ever having been there.

I have several black friend who HATE being called African-American ... b/c although their skin is dark, their ancestors are not, in fact, from Africa.

Many would say that a big problem in America these days is that the movement to celebrate cultural diversity has divided and splintered Americans into various groups/ethnicities instead of celebrating and glorifying what binds us together. Using the term "<insert ethnicity>-American" only serves to point out differences between Americans.

I fail to understand how this is any way important.

Much anger I sense in you, young SoWiBi. It generally means of or relating to Africa. My point was that things can be related to Africa without ever having been there.

Aren't you, in fact, younger than me, dear Ifreann?

I see your point, but it doesn't affect the main issue many here are raising, i.e. that neither all 'black' people in the US are from Africa/related to Africa, and that not all people from/related to Africa are blacks and therefor such nomenclature is deficient.

Of course, you may feel free to launch into a verbal match with the suspiciously absent OP about whether or not having a great-great-grandmother who originally came from Africa makes you "related to" Africa or not. I do, however, have the creeping suspicion that this will not broaden the intellectual horizon of at least one of you two.

I fail to understand how this is any way important.

That's sorta why we discuss it here on NSG, I guess. Were it of importance, we'd either pick up guns and battle each other about it (if we are of a different nationality than the OP) or sue each other over it (if we both happen to be USAians) in real life.

Yeah, it also often refers to interior decoration goods and means "produced by cheap labor somewhere in whatnot-istan so as to vaguely resemble some wannabe-rich white person's idea of something "traditionally African" that they can put in their home and feel all ethno-cool lifestylish with without ever setting a single toe into Africa and/or knowing crap all about any of its culture".

That doesn't make it any better.

maybe in Deutschland, that usually doesn't happen here *instead we just pretend we're from the ghetto

my feelings and opinion on this subject?

If YOU want to be called "[whatever]-American" then let me know.
If YOU find a term offensive or insulting. Then politely let me know.

I have no problem with following your desires as to what labels you wish to refer yourself to, just let me know so that I can use those labels you wish me to use.

Me, I'm an American. Sure I have Japanese ancestory, but I'm an American.

I don't understand why those Alabama porch monkeys don't just abide by being called 'boy' or 'darkie' anymore. It's gotten downright ridiculous this 'African American' crap. Unecessarily complicated. They can call us 'Sir' and 'Ma'am' and we'll go back to calling them ******, and everyone can be happy!

If you are offended by something as petty as what term people use to refer to themselves, you should ask yourself why. I would guess that you probably just don't like black people.
A lot of people do think I'm racist at first. Then they meet my brother, who is a real racist. I don't dislike anyone until I meet him or her. In fact, as cliché and defensive as it sounds, my best friend really is black. Well, half-black. His dad is white, and looks exactly like Mathew Broderick. Anyway, he would consider himself American first, and black second.

Why am I offended. To start, I think insisting on calling someone a hyphen-American instead of just an American suggests that that person isn't in the same group of Americans, and that's not true. I'm not a big fan of separating people because of the color of their skin.
Also, it's not descriptive. A person from South Africa who moves to the States could very well have white skin. Would that person still be African-American? Or do we separate him or her because of skin color? And what if an Englishman with dark skin moves to the States? Do I call that person an English-African-American?
Does that start to give you an idea?

You act like that isn't sufficient justification! Do you know who this guy IS? *pause* Me either. But he made a thread about it, so he must be an authority!
You deserve a medal.

Funny, lately whenever I say Im an American to a forgeiner it is usually said in a meek voice while hanging my head in shame. Hopefully that can change next election.

Anyway, good thread, keep on fighting the oprresive power of the PC police, you brave brave man you:rolleyes:

ps- In the future, all shall refer to me as His Satanic Majesty
I qualify it with "But I can't vote" or "But I didn't vote for Bush." And are you a His Satanic Majesty-American, or are you just giving yourself a funny/stupid name?

Hes vewy bwave indeed.

Do muslims have the week off?
If its two weeks, is it the Mexicans who fill in next?
Yes, Islam's writers are striking, too. And the Mexicans won't cross the picket line.

suspiciously absent OP
Sorry, I have other things to do than post on NSG all day and night. Not things I'd rather do, mind you. (NSG is blocked at school, and I couldn't find a working proxy site)

Even women?
I call them brothas who are really sistas, but still brothas.

I have a nutty idea; why don't you focus on what you want to be called and let everyone else focus on what they want to be called.

I want to be called Sex Beast. :)

You can't really choose your own name, it must be chosen for you. Thus, I am nicknamed after an awkward nerdy guy who won on "Keys to the VIP", the Cobra Commander.

I feel like this, if they want to be called "african-american" then call me "european-american". However, if you want me to call you black, then go ahead and call me white. Basically, name equality.

Too long, can we just shorten it to TFX?

No.

Sure, Ace. See, Boony? If you had chosen something easy, you'd be earning the same respect as our friend acting like a four year old.

I'm disappointed, I thought it was a beautiful name. I put a lot of time & effort into thinking it up. :(

For one, no one refers to white people as European-American very often, if ever, and so I don't see why black people who are just as American as the rest have to have African slapped in front of it.

It's usually only when race is involved that the African/European-American is used. I've heard European-American to describe white and some people feel that you may find black offensive and they want to be nice.
Honestly, people should be nice and use which ever term non-offensively and others should be aware of intent. If someone is trying to be nice who care?

What really bugs me about calling someone black isn't that they aren't black, they're brown, however if I call them as such people think I'm just being stupid. Same with whites, I'm not white I'm pink. If I have to identify people with a colour I want it to be accurate.

I don't understand why a guy who's never been in Africa and probably couldn't point to it on a map is called "African-American" and someone who is FROM Africa can't just because the non-African needs a lot less sunscreen than the pale-skinned South African.
Oh I get it - because black people are too ignorant to know where Africa is on a map, whereas a white south African knows because white people are smart!

Why am I offended. To start, I think insisting on calling someone a hyphen-American instead of just an American suggests that that person isn't in the same group of Americans, and that's not true. I'm not a big fan of separating people because of the color of their skin.
Also, it's not descriptive. A person from South Africa who moves to the States could very well have white skin. Would that person still be African-American? Or do we separate him or her because of skin color? And what if an Englishman with dark skin moves to the States? Do I call that person an English-African-American?
Does that start to give you an idea?

Yes, and you make valid points, but I would make a few in return.

Calling somebody Whatever-American doesn't mean they don't identify primarily as American. I had some neighbors who were into their Irish heritage despite having lived in America for generations, they could refer to themselves as Irish-American, but still consider themselves American first and foremost.

But if you don't accept that, I ask what's the problem with considering your American-ness a secondary attribute of your culture? I consider my American-ness a chance of birth location, rather than an intrinsic part of my identity. Saying that we should all consider ourselves Americans is forced nationalism - a bad thing IMO.

Furthermore, like it or not, the divisions between African-American, Latino, White, Asian, etc aren't based on locational heritage as much as they are on cultural divisions. Regardless of what country a black person is from, they all had to go to the back of the bus in the 1950's. The peculiarity of the "African-American" designation in the US for anybody with a visible ounce of blackness in them is a reflection of the reality of racism and culture in the United States. It's sad, but foolish to deny. So while "African-American" may not be as apt a term as you would like, it is based on reality - African-Americans have African ancestors if you go back far enough - and some consider a reference to what is shared to be better than a polarizing black vs white, or the outdated and racial "negro".

Me, I prefer to refer to people in flavors: chocolate, vanilla, caramel, strawberry, etc.

I was posting in another thread, and I got off on a bit of a rant, so I cut it and put it here:

If you want to call yourself African-American, your family better have come over in the last few generations. If not, you're an American, just like everyone else. I don't call myself European-American, because my great-great-grandmother was born in Scotland. And from what my grandmother tells me, if you asked her mother, a first generation American, what she was, she would have said she was an American, and she would have been damn proud. And my grandmother (2nd generation American) would never, ever, say that she was anything else but a proud American.
So even if you want to say that black people weren't truly Americans until 1957, that was 52 years ago. Most of the people on this forum weren't born yet. Many of your fathers may not have been born yet. So call yourself an American and be proud.

I know this isn't PC, but this is the Internet. If you don't like it, there's a little red x in the top right of your screen. Click on that, and my rant will disappear. (Red circle in the top left, for the mac users. Linux users, I think it's generally an x in the top right, but it changes with your distribution. Alt-F4 works, too)

1. You are European-American. American is not technically a "race". I am European-Australian. If someone asks me what I "am", I'm Australian; if someone asks me my heritage, I'm "European-Australian or Hungarian-Australian". Do you really think that 52 years is going to override someone's heritage? Do you think that just because someone was born in America, that denies them the right to their own, personal heritage?

2. Just a general :rolleyes: at the whole "proud American" thing.

3. Cannot think of a name said what I wanted to say:

What, are you new to the internet or something? If someone doesn't like it there's a whole other button they hit, called "Reply" and then they tell you exactly how much they don't like it, in what ways they don't like it, ways they think it's wrong, and probably what you can do with a few choice orifices. Enjoy.

Plus, do you really think that what you say on the internet has no consequences? You're just saying this on the internet because you don't have enough faith in your beliefs to stand up and say it in public.

Because, what, you said so?

Apparently so.

I don't understand why those Alabama porch monkeys don't just abide by being called 'boy' or 'darkie' anymore. It's gotten downright ridiculous this 'African American' crap. Unecessarily complicated. They can call us 'Sir' and 'Ma'am' and we'll go back to calling them ******, and everyone can be happy!

could be worse. have you seen the sort of nonsense the injuns have been getting up to? some of those naked savages think they should be allowed to teach their inferior languages to their children again. they'll never be even half civilized if they keep that up. but, you know, we have to keep trying to improve them. christian charity, ya know?

While there is no "European-American", there is certainly "Scottish-American", "German-American", "Russian-American", and so forth.

In any case, I'll admit not being particularly fond of "African-American." "Black" is easier to say and write... and it sounds awkward to speak of "African-American Power." ;)

I feel like this, if they want to be called "african-american" then call me "european-american". However, if you want me to call you black, then go ahead and call me white. Basically, name equality.

why should what you want to be called be depending on what someone else wants to be called?

Are you so insecure that you can't make decisions by yourself and have to base it on what other people decide?

I hereby instruct you humans to address me (i.e., I "want to be called") in any of the following ways
1. "Zod"
2. "General Zod"
3. "Our Rightful Ruler/Leader", or anything else to that effect.
4. "KneelBeforeZod", seeing that that is my NationStates name

In fact, I'm going to call myself "Whale-American" from now on becuase my great-grandfather was, in fact, a Sperm Whale.

OOC: LMAO! A sperm whale? :D

and it sounds awkward to speak of "African-American Power."

sounds sorta like an electric company

"There are few things as nauseating as pure obedience." - Kvothe Kingkiller

i just noticed this quote in your sig. fan of the book?

1. You are European-American. American is not technically a "race". I am European-Australian. If someone asks me what I "am", I'm Australian; if someone asks me my heritage, I'm "European-Australian or Hungarian-Australian". Do you really think that 52 years is going to override someone's heritage? Do you think that just because someone was born in America, that denies them the right to their own, personal heritage?
Absolutely not. I'm not denying heritage. I'm just denying that people who's families have no cultural connection to Africa should be considered "African" Americans. Just as I wouldn't consider myself to be a European-American, since I have little actual connection to Europe. I'm an American because I accept the culture and ideals of this country as my own, and I consider the States to be my home and native land.
As to "American" not being a race, that would depend on the definition. I have no idea how races are separated. Is it by skin color? In that case, do we separate out the darker Mediterraneans from the lighter Scandinavians? Or is it just white, and that's it? If it's white, and that's it, then yeah, American wouldn't be a race. But if you break it up, American might well be some sort of sub-set. I really don't know.


2. Just a general :rolleyes: at the whole "proud American" thing.

3. Cannot think of a name said what I wanted to say:

Plus, do you really think that what you say on the internet has no consequences? You're just saying this on the internet because you don't have enough faith in your beliefs to stand up and say it in public.

Apparently so.
Except, of course, for the fact that I do express these beliefs in public. Never said I didn't. I posted this here because I wanted to share this, and get input on it. Admittedly, I was quite ranty in my OP. And I might not be quite so ranty in person. But that doesn't change the fact that I believe what I said.



Oh I get it - because black people are too ignorant to know where Africa is on a map, whereas a white south African knows because white people are smart!

That's not what he was saying, and I should hope you know it.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, and you make valid points, but I would make a few in return.

Calling somebody Whatever-American doesn't mean they don't identify primarily as American. I had some neighbors who were into their Irish heritage despite having lived in America for generations, they could refer to themselves as Irish-American, but still consider themselves American first and foremost.
[/QUOTE]
That's a good point. But, of the "African-Americans" I know, few have any idea of any part of African culture. So the two aren't really the same.

But if you don't accept that, I ask what's the problem with considering your American-ness a secondary attribute of your culture? I consider my American-ness a chance of birth location, rather than an intrinsic part of my identity. Saying that we should all consider ourselves Americans is forced nationalism - a bad thing IMO.

I don't mind people not being proud of being Americans. Especially right now. But I do think that being American is something to be proud of. I won't go into another big rant about it, though. Nobody wants to hear about patriotism anymore, because a bunch of obnoxious NASCAR fans ruined it for the rest of us.

Furthermore, like it or not, the divisions between African-American, Latino, White, Asian, etc aren't based on locational heritage as much as they are on cultural divisions. Regardless of what country a black person is from, they all had to go to the back of the bus in the 1950's. The peculiarity of the "African-American" designation in the US for anybody with a visible ounce of blackness in them is a reflection of the reality of racism and culture in the United States. It's sad, but foolish to deny. So while "African-American" may not be as apt a term as you would like, it is based on reality - African-Americans have African ancestors if you go back far enough - and some consider a reference to what is shared to be better than a polarizing black vs white, or the outdated and racial "negro".

Me, I prefer to refer to people in flavors: chocolate, vanilla, caramel, strawberry, etc.
But African-American is polarizing. And everyone knows that when someone says it, they mean black. And half the time, when I hear people say it, there's a subtle vibe of "Do I really have to say all these syllables to be polite?" Quite a few people don't really want to say it.
And I don't consider "If you go back far enough" to justify it, because, again, there's no connection to Africa except for an ancestor that the person never knew, and there's no cultural connection.

i just noticed this quote in your sig. fan of the book?

The Name of the Wind? Yes, very much so. It is the best fantasy novel I have read in a long time.

The Name of the Wind? Yes, very much so. It is the best fantasy novel I have read in a long time.

man, i will never get used to people saying that. i mean, it's true and everything, but i spent years making fun of pat for 'writing his novel' for like a decade.

I am not going to come up here and act ignorant as this Kedalfax person. But I am going to not reply back with hatred but speak to his anger and stupidity as Martin Luther King Jr. would like me to, with love. It came as a shock to me that someone would post such obscene things on the forum, but what can you expect from someone who is uneducated. I am very tired of people like you, for years my people African Americans have been oppressed by people like you. I am an African American boy and I am proud to say so. However this name for the race is important so as we go on, we do not forget where we came from. I know that I came from a great people in Africa. Though many have tried to block us I know we shall succeed, and press toward the mark of the higher calling. When I read your post it does make me feel angry, and about your grandmother she would not be so proud of an American I fit were not for African Americans, for AFRICAN AMERICANS, toiling in fields, for years. All total it is about 400 years of suffering that my people African Americans dealt with because of some of their European brothers. If any race was working for that long and being abused even still today then they should get the right to call themselves what ever they want. You have a choice to call yourself what you want but do not dare stand in my way. Because yes I am an African American and Proud of it. Martin Luther King Jr. once said “I just want to do God's will. And he's allowed me to go to the mountain. And I've looked over, and I've seen the promised land! I may not get there with you, but I want you to know tonight that we as a people will get to the promised land.” You can say and think what you want but you will not stop me from reaching the promise land!

I call them brothas who are really sistas, but still brothas.

How about 'layda brotha from anotha motha'?

In my experiance, all of my black friends don't like being called "African American." In fact, they hate it. "Black" does just fine for them.

Anyways, I don't give a damn what anyone calls themselves. In fact, I'm going to call myself "Whale-American" from now on becuase my great-grandfather was, in fact, a Sperm Whale.

Did he by chance marry a bowl of petunias?

Did he by chance marry a bowl of petunias?

Through infinite probability, maybe.

I think the OP's trying to convey that categorizing and classifying people is the seeds of racism. My personal opinion is,... I want to be different from the next person.

1. You are European-American. American is not technically a "race". I am European-Australian. If someone asks me what I "am", I'm Australian; if someone asks me my heritage, I'm "European-Australian or Hungarian-Australian". Do you really think that 52 years is going to override someone's heritage? Do you think that just because someone was born in America, that denies them the right to their own, personal heritage?

Ditto. If someone asks my nationality, I'm American. If someone asks my heritage, I'm Sicilian-American/Puerto Rican.

could be worse. have you seen the sort of nonsense the injuns have been getting up to? some of those naked savages think they should be allowed to teach their inferior languages to their children again. they'll never be even half civilized if they keep that up. but, you know, we have to keep trying to improve them. christian charity, ya know?

Its high time there was a good forced deportation and shooting. They've no gratitude. Where would some native stuck on a reservation be, if it wasnt for the white man?

Ditto. If someone asks my nationality, I'm American. If someone asks my heritage, I'm Sicilian-American/Puerto Rican.What exactly is a heritage?

What exactly is a heritage?

Are there no dictionaries in United Beleriand?

I was posting in another thread, and I got off on a bit of a rant, so I cut it and put it here:

If you want to call yourself African-American...

<snip>

Why do some (white) people feel such an urge to publish their (un-asked-for) opinions about the private matters of other (not white) people?

I personally do not care what other people choose to call themselves. And even if I did, I would not think I had any business telling them what I thought unless they specifically asked me to. It's a little thing my parents called "manners," and it often involves minding one's own business.

But since we're putting this into some kind of perspective, my habit is as follows:

Question: Where am I from/what is my nationality?
Answer: I'm an American.

Question: What am I/what is my ancestry/heritage?
Answer: I am an Italian/German/French(Alsatian)/Russian(via Poland)-American

If I were black, I'd answer the first question as "American" and the second question as "African-American."

Are there no dictionaries in United Beleriand?They don't contain hollow words. What's a Sicilian-American?

They don't contain hollow words. What's a Sicilian-American?

If you can't figure it out, there's no point explaining it to you.

What's a Sicilian-American?

Mafia. :p

Why do some (white) people feel such an urge to publish their (un-asked-for) opinions about the private matters of other (not white) people?

I personally do not care what other people choose to call themselves. And even if I did, I would not think I had any business telling them what I thought unless they specifically asked me to. It's a little thing my parents called "manners," and it often involves minding one's own business.

But since we're putting this into some kind of perspective, my habit is as follows:

Question: Where am I from/what is my nationality?
Answer: I'm an American.

Question: What am I/what is my ancestry/heritage?
Answer: I am an Italian/German/French(Alsatian)/Russian(via Poland)-American

If I were black, I'd answer the first question as "American" and the second question as "African-American."
You know, you're right. I've never heard a black person voice an unwanted opinion about someone else's business. It's just those damn whities.


Through infinite probability, maybe.

I think the OP's trying to convey that categorizing and classifying people is the seeds of racism. My personal opinion is,... I want to be different from the next person.
To a certain extent, yes.

I am not going to come up here and act ignorant as this Kedalfax person. But I am going to not reply back with hatred but speak to his anger and stupidity as Martin Luther King Jr. would like me to, with love. It came as a shock to me that someone would post such obscene things on the forum, but what can you expect from someone who is uneducated. I am very tired of people like you, for years my people African Americans have been oppressed by people like you. I am an African American boy and I am proud to say so. However this name for the race is important so as we go on, we do not forget where we came from. I know that I came from a great people in Africa. Though many have tried to block us I know we shall succeed, and press toward the mark of the higher calling. When I read your post it does make me feel angry, and about your grandmother she would not be so proud of an American I fit were not for African Americans, for AFRICAN AMERICANS, toiling in fields, for years. All total it is about 400 years of suffering that my people African Americans dealt with because of some of their European brothers. If any race was working for that long and being abused even still today then they should get the right to call themselves what ever they want. You have a choice to call yourself what you want but do not dare stand in my way. Because yes I am an African American and Proud of it. Martin Luther King Jr. once said “I just want to do God's will. And he's allowed me to go to the mountain. And I've looked over, and I've seen the promised land! I may not get there with you, but I want you to know tonight that we as a people will get to the promised land.” You can say and think what you want but you will not stop me from reaching the promise land!

Excuse me? Are you trying to say that I am somehow responsible for slavery? Because that's what is sounds like you're saying. If you think for one second that I have any responsibility for that travesty, you are sorely mistaken. I will admit, some of my ancestors had slaves. 300 years ago. And I do think that was bad. 300 years ago. And 300 years ago, they weren't African-Americans, because this nation of America didn't exist.

A little more recently than that, another group of my ancestors were involved in the underground railroad. Helping slaves to freedom. The various enterprises of my family and ancestors have employed black people at far closer to even rates than most others for over 100 years. And the current business employs black people at exactly the same rates as a white person would get in the same position.

So if the sins of my ancestors are enough to condemn me to being personally responsible for slavery, shouldn't their good works absolve me? Or, can we just remember that I have never owned a slave, and will never own a slave? Can we remember that I do not judge people based on the color of their skin but, as Dr. King said, the content of their character? Can we remember that I have sat on the hills of Albany (NY, not GA) with the descendants of former slaves, as a descendant of a former slave owner? That I enjoy freedom with my friends, black and white, Jew and Gentile, Protestant and Catholic?
Or do we assume that, solely because of my skin color and the sins of people who've been dead longer than this great nation has been alive, I am an uneducated racist?

The next time you call someone uneducated and imply racism, be damn sure that you are right. I have oppressed no one. I only voiced an opinion that a term used in the American vernacular is neither suitable nor descriptive. I am not uneducated, and I am most certainly not racist.

On a different note, since we're bringing up Dr. King; Holy crap, that man had charisma. Even just the excerpts from "I Have a Dream" are amazing.

Mafia. :p

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

It's OK Kat. I'm of mackerel snapping, Mick, Paddy, IRA decent. :D

As usual, people are far too easily offended over the big R word.