NationStates Jolt Archive


Super-Batteries!

Lunatic Goofballs
17-01-2008, 22:53
http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nf/57832

Well, what is one of people's biggest complaints about electric vehicles? Range. Could we be putting that complaint to rest in the next few years?
Vetalia
17-01-2008, 22:57
Looks like I'll have to wait a few years, but in the meantime I guess I'll use a solar charger. I'll also be happy when those heat-converting jackets become available; I could charge my cell phone, Ipod, and eventually PDA all by my own body heat.
Ifreann
17-01-2008, 23:00
Assistant Professor Yi Cui and associates at Stanford's Department of Materials Science and Engineering said they have developed a method to increase the life of rechargeable lithium ion batteries to a whopping 40 hours.

That's pretty fucking awesome, if I do say so myself.
Cannot think of a name
17-01-2008, 23:04
If the Tesla really does get 250 miles per charge, and if I'm reading this right it's a 400 times improvement, that would be...

Nope, that ain't right...I have to be reading the article wrong. Batteries on laptops are at 4 hours now, right? And they're saying 40, so that's 10 times, so 2,500 miles. You seriously shouldn't drive that long without stopping for a few hours anyway...kind of awesome. (and no one but people like me try to take long road trips in a tiny sports car)

Going along with market ready solar power that is cheaper than coal (http://www.celsias.com/2007/11/23/nanosolars-breakthrough-technology-solar-now-cheaper-than-coal/), it's all good news.
Lunatic Goofballs
17-01-2008, 23:04
I don't want to be anywhere near that battery when it explodes.

I want to be about thirty or forty feet away with a good view. :)
Todsboro
17-01-2008, 23:05
I don't want to be anywhere near that battery when it explodes.
Call to power
17-01-2008, 23:09
how long do you think it would last a vibrator?

I'll also be happy when those heat-converting jackets become available; I could charge my cell phone, Ipod, and eventually PDA all by my own body heat.

whilst you freeze to death :p
Lunatic Goofballs
17-01-2008, 23:10
how long do you think it would last a vibrator?



whilst you freeze to death :p

But he'll freeze to the tune of 'Hot Blooded' -Foreigner. :)
Vetalia
17-01-2008, 23:11
whilst you freeze to death :p

Yeah, but at least I'll be able to post on NSG while freezing.
Cannot think of a name
17-01-2008, 23:13
But he'll freeze to the tune of 'Hot Blooded' -Foreigner. :)

"I don't need instructions to know how to rock!" - Carl.
Vetalia
17-01-2008, 23:14
"I don't need instructions to know how to rock!" - Carl.

I want that Foreigner belt.
Lunatic Goofballs
17-01-2008, 23:19
So you want to be in First Class, while the battery explodes in Coach? :p

Of course not. The curtain will probably be closed and I'll be facing the wrong way. Chances are good I'll be too engrossed in the in-flight movie. That just won't do.
Todsboro
17-01-2008, 23:21
I want to be about thirty or forty feet away with a good view. :)

So you want to be in First Class, while the battery explodes in Coach? :p
Call to power
17-01-2008, 23:22
Yeah, but at least I'll be able to post on NSG while freezing.

well you will have at least one way to keep warm I suppose ;)
Gauthier
18-01-2008, 00:00
I'll also be happy when those heat-converting jackets become available; I could charge my cell phone, Ipod, and eventually PDA all by my own body heat.

And then Capcom starts marketing Lost Planet brand jackets. God Help Us All.
Ultraviolent Radiation
18-01-2008, 00:12
I wonder if this means laser guns will be invented.
SeathorniaII
18-01-2008, 00:52
I wonder if this means laser guns will be invented.

Lasers already exist.

They are quite hopelessly useless at damaging stuff other than eyes and very specific materials (usually gasses).
Cannot think of a name
18-01-2008, 02:13
Lasers already exist.

They are quite hopelessly useless at damaging stuff other than eyes and very specific materials (usually gasses).

Then it's not a laser gun, is it?
Conserative Morality
18-01-2008, 02:41
Well, what is one of people's biggest complaints about electric vehicles? Range. Could we be putting that complaint to rest in the next few years?
Of course not! Have you ever shot an electric car out of a Trebuchet? They only get a few hundred yards before they crash to the ground!
Red Tide2
18-01-2008, 03:08
Well to be fair, shooting an SUV out of a trebuchet is worse...
Domici
18-01-2008, 03:17
http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nf/57832

Well, what is one of people's biggest complaints about electric vehicles? Range. Could we be putting that complaint to rest in the next few years?

That was never a major problem. Those cars could go 120 miles on a single charge of the battery. If you regularly drive more than that you can get another battery and keep it in the trunk.

It's like being happy that we now have hybrid cars that get 45 mpg, when regular mid-sized cars often get 30-35 mpg and the first generation hybrids got 80 mpg.

All Hail Glorious Big Brother who has generously raised our chocolate ration to 20 grams per week!
Velkya
18-01-2008, 03:23
Lasers already exist.

They are quite hopelessly useless at damaging stuff other than eyes and very specific materials (usually gasses).

Ahem. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_High_Energy_Laser)
Gauthier
18-01-2008, 03:26
All Hail Glorious Big Brother who has generously raised our chocolate ration to 20 grams per week!

Sarcasm is Subversion. Off to Room 101 for you!
Cannot think of a name
18-01-2008, 03:50
That was never a major problem. Those cars could go 120 miles on a single charge of the battery. If you regularly drive more than that you can get another battery and keep it in the trunk.

It's like being happy that we now have hybrid cars that get 45 mpg, when regular mid-sized cars often get 30-35 mpg and the first generation hybrids got 80 mpg.

All Hail Glorious Big Brother who has generously raised our chocolate ration to 20 grams per week!

Well, that's not entirely right. The EV-1 (at first ridiculously called the 'Impact'...) was tested by Car and Driver at a functional range of 48 miles. The Insight, the first hybrid sold in the US, was EPA rated at 70 mpg, but it was closer to 50-55 mpg, and what made that possible was its light weight and teardrop shape. I don't know if this link will take you to the comparison (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm), if not do a side by side of the first Insight and the current Prius, and you see that their reasonably close despite the Prius having four doors and a back seat. In addition, since the Insight the EPA has changed their estimates to be slightly more related to reality, so comparing its initial number to todays numbers is a little off.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for them, just setting things to where they are.

My edit before sending is to admit I was wrong, I hadn't known about the NiMH battery models that according to this test (http://www.eanet.com/kodama/ev1/99test/99test.htm) says 120 miles, like you stated.
Lunatic Goofballs
18-01-2008, 03:52
That was never a major problem. Those cars could go 120 miles on a single charge of the battery. If you regularly drive more than that you can get another battery and keep it in the trunk.

It's like being happy that we now have hybrid cars that get 45 mpg, when regular mid-sized cars often get 30-35 mpg and the first generation hybrids got 80 mpg.

All Hail Glorious Big Brother who has generously raised our chocolate ration to 20 grams per week!

I never said it was a problem. I said it was a complaint. :p
Indri
18-01-2008, 04:53
Well, what is one of people's biggest complaints about electric vehicles? Range. Could we be putting that complaint to rest in the next few years?
Perhaps. But what about CHARGIN MAH BATTERIES?

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1652/batteriesii0.jpg
Straughn
19-01-2008, 04:47
Lasers already exist.

They are quite hopelessly useless at damaging stuff other than eyes and very specific materials (usually gasses).

http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9843771-7.html?tag=newsmap
Sumamba Buwhan
19-01-2008, 05:11
What about Steorn free energy technology???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We were supposed to have the results by the end of 2007 :(
Indri
19-01-2008, 06:36
What about Steorn free energy technology???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We were supposed to have the results by the end of 2007 :(
And like every 'free energy' company/device before it, steorn has come and gone a mighty failure.

You actually believed in those wacked out claims? Don't you know there is no such thing as a free lunch?
Cannot think of a name
19-01-2008, 07:03
And like every 'free energy' company/device before it, steorn has come and gone a mighty failure.

You actually believed in those wacked out claims? Don't you know there is no such thing as a free lunch?

They were still bumping around in October (http://www.steorn.com/news/releases/?id=1131). According to their website we're getting near when their 'independent validation' deal is up, where a whole grip of people got to look at their work or something like it. Notably anemic on actual results at that page, however...
Indri
19-01-2008, 07:35
Anyway, about these super-batteries. What about CHARGIN MAH BATTERIES? Another big problem with EVs is that they take hours to charge up and I wouldn't like having to spend time at a chargin station for 2 or 3 sipping coffee (which I hate, but I like tea) and munching on jerky. I suppose that you could make the batteries removeable and keep a supply at he stations but what happens when there's a run on the battery bank and there're none left for the line of cars around the block? And battery packs are going to be heavy no matter how efficient they are so you'd probably need special equipment and trained personel running the SWAP.(avi)
Cannot think of a name
19-01-2008, 08:01
Anyway, about these super-batteries. What about CHARGIN MAH BATTERIES? Another big problem with EVs is that they take hours to charge up and I wouldn't like having to spend time at a chargin station for 2 or 3 sipping coffee (which I hate, but I like tea) and munching on jerky. I suppose that you could make the batteries removeable and keep a supply at he stations but what happens when there's a run on the battery bank and there're none left for the line of cars around the block? And battery packs are going to be heavy no matter how efficient they are so you'd probably need special equipment and trained personel running the SWAP.(avi)

With increased range that becomes less of an issue unless you're planning a straight cross country road trip. If we assume the Tesla has the claimed 250 mile range, I get 300 out of a tank of gas on my van and can still get anywhere I'm going on not much more than half a tank. If these new batteries increase that by 10, then if you run those batteries out you really should take a few hours off the road.

Yeah, if your daily commute is over 250 miles (and there are plenty of people that applies to) then an electric car would be a pain in the ass. But that's the exception, not the rule.
Posi
19-01-2008, 09:45
Anyway, about these super-batteries. What about CHARGIN MAH BATTERIES? Another big problem with EVs is that they take hours to charge up and I wouldn't like having to spend time at a chargin station for 2 or 3 sipping coffee (which I hate, but I like tea) and munching on jerky. I suppose that you could make the batteries removeable and keep a supply at he stations but what happens when there's a run on the battery bank and there're none left for the line of cars around the block? And battery packs are going to be heavy no matter how efficient they are so you'd probably need special equipment and trained personel running the SWAP.(avi)2,500km. That is one long ass commute. More than a month for most people. Do you really think that most people are not going to be able to stop by at home once a month?
Velka Morava
19-01-2008, 10:18
That was never a major problem. Those cars could go 120 miles on a single charge of the battery. If you regularly drive more than that you can get another battery and keep it in the trunk.

It's like being happy that we now have hybrid cars that get 45 mpg, when regular mid-sized cars often get 30-35 mpg and the first generation hybrids got 80 mpg.

All Hail Glorious Big Brother who has generously raised our chocolate ration to 20 grams per week!

WTF?!?! What kind of cars you use in the US???
My old (1994) Citroen ZX TD used to make 55mpg (diesel).
The Subaru Forrester i have now makes 35mpg (95 octane) and i find it too much!

edit: Wait, they do not sell the Forrester 2 liter in the US??? Why???
Call to power
19-01-2008, 10:44
Do you really think that most people are not going to be able to stop by at home once a month?

this is beginning to sound more and more like a plot to exterminate the gypsies :p
Conserative Morality
19-01-2008, 22:13
WTF?!?! What kind of cars you use in the US???
My old (1994) Citroen ZX TD used to make 55mpg (diesel).
The Subaru Forrester i have now makes 35mpg (95 octane) and i find it too much!

edit: Wait, they do not sell the Forrester 2 liter in the US??? Why???
Holy crap! 55mpg!?!?! Where do you live?
My mothers new car (07') only gets 28 mpg!
Khadgar
19-01-2008, 23:13
WTF?!?! What kind of cars you use in the US???
My old (1994) Citroen ZX TD used to make 55mpg (diesel).
The Subaru Forrester i have now makes 35mpg (95 octane) and i find it too much!

edit: Wait, they do not sell the Forrester 2 liter in the US??? Why???

My truck gets 18mpg.
Myrmidonisia
19-01-2008, 23:29
http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nf/57832

Well, what is one of people's biggest complaints about electric vehicles? Range. Could we be putting that complaint to rest in the next few years?

When you combine that capacity with the ultra-capacitors (think many farads in a Coke-can sized container) and their superior charge rate, you might get a practical electric car!
Myrmidonisia
19-01-2008, 23:34
Anyway, about these super-batteries. What about CHARGIN MAH BATTERIES? Another big problem with EVs is that they take hours to charge up and I wouldn't like having to spend time at a chargin station for 2 or 3 sipping coffee (which I hate, but I like tea) and munching on jerky. I suppose that you could make the batteries removeable and keep a supply at he stations but what happens when there's a run on the battery bank and there're none left for the line of cars around the block? And battery packs are going to be heavy no matter how efficient they are so you'd probably need special equipment and trained personel running the SWAP.(avi)
That's the coolest thing about augmenting the battery with capacitors (http://www.ultracapacitors.org/ultracapacitors.org-articles/how-an-ultra-capacitor-works-3.htm).
An ultra-cap can charge as fast as you can supply current. Then it can be used to trickle charge a battery system, essentially always keeping it topped off. The battery, can then be used to drive a motor.

The other way to go is to imitate a diesel-electric locomotive. Use a small diesel to provide current for a battery. Then use the battery to drive electric motors.

I think we're very close to having practical EVs and it's pretty exciting.
Cannot think of a name
20-01-2008, 19:15
WTF?!?! What kind of cars you use in the US???
My old (1994) Citroen ZX TD used to make 55mpg (diesel).
The Subaru Forrester i have now makes 35mpg (95 octane) and i find it too much!

edit: Wait, they do not sell the Forrester 2 liter in the US??? Why???

We don't have Citroens either. And we have a much stricter emissions standard on diesels than the EU that has stalled the very few diesel imports that we already received (I believe that only Mercedes and VW were importing diesels and they both had to take a year off to adjust.)

On top of that, diesel is still (since no one sells them here) stigmatized as loud, smelly, and slow. Now, in Europe and other places where more than half the cars are diesel powered you know that is no longer true, but here in the US we're only just now discovering this.

And most companies won't import their bottom model cars here. We don't get Mini Ones, just Coopers and the Cooper S. If there is a small motor version of something there is a fair chance it won't be imported here.

That might change with the diesel thing, but the long and short of it is we're still behind.

This might be a 50/50 thing-they don't offer the cars so we can't buy them, we don't buy them so they don't offer them. though the Mini sold like hotcakes, I've already seen Smarts bopping about, and there are a whole lot of diesel VWs about. In fact, in 2006 the sales of diesels matched the increase in diesel availability, so it could well be that we'd buy these cars if someone would sell them to us.