NationStates Jolt Archive

Please tell my why some of you liberals, why you support near full term abortion but you are against the death penalty. Why?

Because we're like that...and that's the way it is!

Doo be doo be doo.

My thread now, mine!

Which is more expensive?

Sharpened Coat Hangar?
or
Lengthy court process + appeals + lethal injections?

Which political leaning has morals?

Liberal?
or
Conservative?

Answers italicized for your convenience.

Please tell my why some of you liberals, why you support near full term abortion but you are against the death penalty. Why?

Probably the same way that many conservatives want a ban on abortion but approve of the death penalty. Not defending lib's but just pointing out the irony.

Okay...I think it makes more sense to execute a murderer who has had a shot at life, than to kill a nearly newborn baby.

And the irony is missed.

Just to explode your whole theory.

I am a liberal and yet I am not against the death penalty.

Probably the same way that many conservatives want a ban on abortion but approve of the death penalty. Not defending lib's but just pointing out the irony.
Okay...I think it makes more sense to execute a murderer who has had a shot at life, than to kill a nearly newborn baby.

Okay...I think it makes more sense to execute a murderer who has had a shot at life, than to kill a nearly newborn baby.

Personally, I've always thought that it makes more sense to execute the baby, as it doesn't yet comprehend its mortality, making the killing less cruel. In addition, aborted babies go to Heaven, whereas convicted murderers go straight to Hell, and Hell is overpopulated enough as it is.


This post has not been entirely serious. The player behind Vojvodina-Nihon may actually support the death penalty, or be against abortion. Using arguments by said player for any purpose other than comic relief may be disastrous, or may have no ill consequences at all. All rights reserved.

Please tell my why some of you liberals, why you support near full term abortion but you are against the death penalty. Why?
Some?
http://www.forumspile.com/Thread-I_like_where_this_thread_is_going.jpg

Probably the same way that many conservatives want a ban on abortion but approve of the death penalty. Not defending lib's but just pointing out the irony.

Mmhmmm.

Okay...I think it makes more sense to execute a murderer who has had a shot at life, than to kill a nearly newborn baby.

The people being aborted aren't "nearly newborn." The abortion must occur in the first trimester for it to be legal.

I don't support either, but I think I understand why some people are pro-choice but anti-death penalty. With the death penalty, the government is killing you, for a reason that's not much better than revenge. (It would be a deterrent if it were used more, but as it is, you have a better chance coming out alive in a Texas prison than you do on a Chicago street. Not a huge deterrent.) Pregnancy, on the other hand, is difficult, and finding a way to raise an unwanted child is even harder. The government doesn't really suffer if it puts someone away for life as opposed to executing them. Financially, the opposite is true.

Finally, from a purely pragmatic point I am in favor of legalized abortion but not in favor of the death penalty only because execution can be prevented, really easily. The state or federal government just stops, there's no such thing as illegal execution, or an execution "black market." Abortion, on the other hand, continues even if it is banned, in a way that is much more harmful to the woman involved.

And the irony is missed.

Just to explode your whole theory.

I am a liberal and yet I am not against the death penalty.

To be fair he did say some and not all.

To be fair he did say some and not all.

Hmmm?

I might be channeling my relatives. When they talk about librals! They usually mean all of them. ;)

Because I believe in a person's fundamental right to bodily integrity.

Also, because I like having an internally consistent position. I think it makes a lot more sense than "All life is sacred...except when it isn't!" :p

Personally, I've always thought that it makes more sense to execute the baby, as it doesn't yet comprehend its mortality, making the killing less cruel. In addition, aborted babies go to Heaven, whereas convicted murderers go straight to Hell, and Hell is overpopulated enough as it is.

True. Hell is overpopulated, mostly because over 90 percent of souls in Hell are there on drug charges (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/41447).

Please tell my why some of you liberals, why you support near full term abortion but you are against the death penalty. Why?

because science tells me that its the clever thing to do (mainly that fetuses up to a certain level are not humans)

I've always thought abortions were ineffective. I require more chainsaws!

Anyways. I'm in support for both abortion and the death penalty, but the latter in only extreme situations.

I'm in support for both abortion and the death penalty, but the latter in only extreme situations.

you support killing extreme sports junkies and pro-wrestlers?

Because aborted babies are delicious in a white wine reduction sauce.


Electrified minorities...eh, not so much.

Hmmm?

I might be channeling my relatives. When they talk about librals! They usually mean all of them. ;)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13377352&postcount=8
:D

you support killing extreme sports junkies and pro-wrestlers?

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

*Breaks a cinderblock with my head*

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

*Breaks a cinderblock with my head*

EXTREME LETHAL INJECTION!!!!1

*pumps mountain dew directly into artery*

Please tell my why some of you liberals, why you support near full term abortion but you are against the death penalty. Why?

modded -1 for troll...


but on a strictly pragmatic level, because abortion is a very effective method of lowering crime, where as the death penalty isn't. (see Stephen Levitt for an explanation.

Please tell my why some of you liberals, why you support near full term abortion but you are against the death penalty. Why?

Nobody supports near full term abortions. The wackos are trying to pull the wool over your eyes in order to get you on their side. It seems to be working too.

It's a fallacy. Nobody supports late-term abortions. Nobody.

Because aborted babies are delicious in a white wine reduction sauce.


Electrified minorities...eh, not so much.

Yay! :D

They are more tender when they are young. :)

Nobody supports near full term abortions. The wackos are trying to pull the wool over your eyes in order to get you on their side. It seems to be working too.

It's a fallacy. Nobody supports late-term abortions. Nobody.

Well, to be fair, lots of people do support them in the only cases where they're ever used anyway - those of medical necessity. I do not, however, know of anyone who is likely to say, "Late-term abortions are the BEST! Everyone should get one right now! Yay!"

Well, to be fair, lots of people do support them in the only cases where they're ever used anyway - those of medical necessity. I do not, however, know of anyone who is likely to say, "Late-term abortions are the BEST! Everyone should get one right now! Yay!"

I don't support the use of late-term abortions. I'm sure the patients and doctors don't either. I DO support the doctor and not some religious wacko politician deciding when it is and isn't necessary to save the mother's life. But then again, I'm a goofball. :p

Yay! :D

They are more tender when they are young. :)

Aye. They have more flavor, too.

I'm trying out a recipie that calls for 3 fetuses (fetii?), potatoes, carrots, some chives, black pepper and red onions, all in a crock pot. I'll send you the recipie if you want.

That reminds me, I have to go to the Clinic tomarrow. They're jucier when they're fresh from the womb.

Aye. They have more flavor, too.

I'm trying out a recipie that calls for 3 fetuses (fetii?), potatoes, carrots, some chives, black pepper and red onions, all in a crock pot. I'll send you the recipie if you want.

That reminds me, I have to go to the Clinic tomarrow. They're jucier when they're fresh from the womb.

Have you considered a jamaican jerk spice rub? Good stuff! *nod*

I don't support the use of late-term abortions. I'm sure the patients and doctors don't either. I DO support the doctor and not some religious wacko politician deciding when it is and isn't necessary to save the mother's life. But then again, I'm a goofball. :p
Me too! :)

So the answer to the OP questions is: FAIL. There is no comparison between support for late term abortion and opposition to the death penalty, because there is no such thing as support for late term abortion. There is only support for sound medicine.

I don't support the use of late-term abortions. I'm sure the patients and doctors don't either. I DO support the doctor and not some religious wacko politician deciding when it is and isn't necessary to save the mother's life. But then again, I'm a goofball. :p

If that's what it takes to qualify as a goofball, I guess I'm one, too. :)

Nobody supports near full term abortions. The wackos are trying to pull the wool over your eyes in order to get you on their side. It seems to be working too.

It's a fallacy. Nobody supports late-term abortions. Nobody.
Says you. Now back that up.




modded -1 for troll...

What?

if a person hasn't been born yet they won't yet have become addicted to this life, thus a mercy killing if it is one. the death penalty is abortion retroactively.

the obvious reason to oppose it is that oops, sorry, wrong suspect, is a little bit too late after the fact. (and there's a REAL good chance rather a lot of them are!)

=^^=
.../\...

Nobody supports near full term abortions. The wackos are trying to pull the wool over your eyes in order to get you on their side. It seems to be working too.

It's a fallacy. Nobody supports late-term abortions. Nobody.

I agree, but I'd also specify what "late-term" means. No one supports near-full-term abortions. No one is going to say, "38 weeks? Nah, changed my mind." However, before viability--around 24-25 weeks--there are sometimes exceptions. I certainly don't like it very much, but complications can arise in the second trimester that are dangerous for the mother and hopeless for the fetus.

Says you. Now back that up.

You made the assumption, the burden of proof is on you.

Please tell my why some of you liberals, why you support near full term abortion but you are against the death penalty. Why?

Because until that baby plops out of its mother, it's still a part of her body. If she doesn't want it in there anymore, then it's her right; likewise, if there was some kind of sentient creature growing in my testicles, I'd sure as hell want it out of there. All in all, though, I simply consider it not my place to tell a woman what to do with something that is growing inside of *her*. Now, personally, I believe that a fetus (and beyond that, even a newborn) is only marginally more aware than an animal, if at all (and it has the potential to do a great deal more evil). But, again, my morals don't factor into what someone decides to do with their own body.

As for execution, I believe the purpose of a prison should be to rehabilitate and set as many people as possible on the path to a good life. The most dangerous criminals need to be kept separate from the vulnerable populace, but even while they are in government custody, I do not believe the government owns them. Furthermore, life in prison and execution amount to the same thing for the public: Protection from the dangerous. However, execution is irreversible, and in killing someone for a crime, you are essentially forsaking every other aspect of that person, saying only the bad they've done is what matters.

Basically, I believe that, while a fetus may eventually grow into a thinking human being.. it is, at present, not one. And while a criminal may be one of the worst examples of humanity, they are still human, so as long as we are pretending we are more than animals, we should not kill even the worst offenders.

Says you. Now back that up.

No one wants to go through late term abortions, I'd say very few want to go through early term abortions, I doubt even taking the morning-after pill is done without some thought about what's being done - in that sense, no one 'supports' it - it's not some throwaway decision dammit.

Please tell my why some of you liberals, why you support near full term abortion but you are against the death penalty. Why?

I'm a liberal, and I'm against both.

I'm opposed to the government executing anyone.
I'm opposed to mothers-to-be terminating late-term pregnancies.

HOWEVER, there is a huge difference between government doing something itself (with the majesty of the law to legitimize that), and government allowing something (a personal choice by a woman.)

As someone who lives in a country with public health-care, I do not concede that abortion by a woman's choice (with medical advice) is a deliberate act by government. Law, on the other hand, is imposed on lawbreakers explicitly against their will.

What, Mid-laughia has split already? Bummer.

Says you. Now back that up.

*saves it to the hard drive* Okay done. What exactly was the point of that? :confused:

*saves it to the hard drive* Okay done. What exactly was the point of that? :confused:

Bwhahahah!

Seriously though, it is because if you suffer a HDD crash your data is safe. Now at least burn it to CD or summit huh!

Please tell my why some of you liberals, why you support near full term abortion but you are against the death penalty. Why?

What does one have to do with the other?
I'm against cruelty to chickens and for gay marriage, does that confuse you too?

Nobody supports near full term abortions. The wackos are trying to pull the wool over your eyes in order to get you on their side. It seems to be working too.

It's a fallacy. Nobody supports late-term abortions. Nobody.
Says you. Now back that up
LG's comment looks right to me, too. I've never seen anyone stand up for the idea of near-full-term abortion.

As for backing up his claim the onus, as someone else will no doubt have said already, is on you to back up your initial claim that some hazy form of person - the "liberals" - "support near full term abortion" but are "against the death penalty". I'd ask you to define "liberal" but, if past performance on these boards is any guide, that would be a thread unto itself so let's just not go there.

For the record I support a woman's right to choose to have an abortion, I oppose the death penalty and I see no contradiction - they are not two sides of the same coin. Using those positions, you can label me as you will... it will have no effect on me whatsoever.

If that's what it takes to qualify as a goofball, I guess I'm one, too. :)

Same here. Next stop - world domination.

Obvious troll is obvious and made of strawman and fail.

Please tell my why some of you liberals, why you support near full term abortion but you are against the death penalty. Why?

Fetus meat is delicious, criminals meat taste like leather.

Please tell my why some of you liberals, why you support near full term abortion but you are against the death penalty. Why?

Because they do not see the problem with supporting someone financially against one's will, but they see a problem with having to support someone bodily against one's will. Think: a criminal living inside your body.

but on a strictly pragmatic level, because abortion is a very effective method of lowering crime, where as the death penalty isn't. (see Stephen Levitt for an explanation.

Killing all black people should lower crime too; do you support that?

Please tell my why some of you liberals, why you support near full term abortion but you are against the death penalty. Why?I don't support near full term abortion, except in dire cases where the health of the mother is threatened. But then again, I'm not a liberal.

Killing all black people should lower crime too; do you support that?Not really. The murder rate would rise with each one killed.