NationStates Jolt Archive

On a Huckabee thread last week I accused Huckabee of being a theocrat, and was promptly confronted by a couple of people who insisted that, despite his avowed intention to push religion into public schools, teach bronze-age myth on a par with science and discriminate against homosexuals, Huckabee is in no way a theocrat.

Well, happily Mike has decided to clear the issue up for us:

I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution, but I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living god. And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view of how we treat each other and how we treat the family.

Read the article and watch the video here (http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Huckabee_Amend_Constitution_to_meet_Gods_0115.html). Anyone want to deny he's a theocrat now?

I hadn't expected him to be so upfront about his theocratic tendencies; is this openness a worrying indication of the level of support his ideas enjoy in the US?

I've got to log off now but I'll try to check in tomorrow.

No shit?

When you've got a person that wants to discriminate against homosexuals and those with HIV/AIDS on the basis of religion, what do you expect?

The really fucked up thing though is, the USA might actually vote him in.

Okay, this is a little oxymoron, but I'm an Atehist repbulican, so I absolutely hate it when they make religion a big point in any political campaign.

The really fucked up thing though is, the USA might actually vote him in.

Good thing the President can't change the Constitution. Still, I won't vote for a President that want to.

Good thing the President can't change the Constitution.

Or can he? :eek:

Or can he? :eek:

No.

He'd have to have Congress pass it with 2/3, then 2/3 of state legislatures pass it.

Incredibly hard, but still possible if the president proposes it.

Or can he? :eek:

No. He can't.

Isn't Huckabee's support starting to slide again? I could've sworn I read something about big increases for John McCain and declines for everybody else.

Honestly, Huckabee doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected; a lot of his positions are simply too out there to appeal to anyone beyond his core voting bloc, the theocratic wing of the Republican Party. He's already starting to fall again and he'll probably be out of the race entirely in a couple months.

No. He can't.

No.

He'd have to have Congress pass it with 2/3, then 2/3 of state legislatures pass it.

Incredibly hard, but still possible if the president proposes it.

Yes yes I know this, but this is Huckabee!!

http://conservablogs.com/nuke/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/mikehuckabee.jpg

What's congress got on this unstoppable force of all American white Christian!!!

Yes yes I know this, but this is Huckabee!!

http://conservablogs.com/nuke/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/mikehuckabee.jpg

What's congress got on this unstoppable force of all American white Christian!!!
http://www.straightupsearch.com/archives/mr_t_blue.jpg

?

giant image spam is very annoying.

isnt huckabee talking about his support of constitutional ammendments that would outlaw abortion and gay marriage?

what rational is there for such a stance but religion?

giant image spam is very annoying.
Fixed, terribly sorry about that.

Huckabee was only given a boost because his buddy Chuck 'reactionary' Norris did the ad for him, now people are getting over the trivialities and see the nasty theocrat underneath.

*sarcastic 'Huzzah for Religion'*

Fixed, terribly sorry about that.

thank you!

So he wants to get rid of this?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I'm appaled that he gets any support whatsoever.

Huckabee was only given a boost because his buddy Chuck 'reactionary' Norris did the ad for him...
It's a sad time when internet memes win you nominations for presidential candidacy.

Mind you, all any candidate needs to do to win my undying support is to suggest that Hilary Clinton might like mudkips.

So I guess I shouldn't be throwing stones.

So he wants to get rid of this?



I'm appaled that he gets any support whatsoever.

no

he wants constitutional ammendments outlawing abortion and gay marriage.

he feels that HIS understanding of the bible must be reflected in the constitution.

....

and he is probably also in favor of prayer in schools but im not sure about that.

no

he wants constitutional ammendments outlawing abortion and gay marriage.

he feels that HIS understanding of the bible must be reflected in the constitution.
Quite.
and he is probably also in favor of prayer in schools but im not sure about that.
His website makes no comment on that in the education sector, but I'd imagine that you're right on this matter.



Oh and for the resize - you're perfectly welcome, I was unaware there was a problem, cheers for highlighting it.

Now comes the $1,000,000 question. Which God, becau[se not everyone worship the Christian God.....I'd like to see the Nine Noble Virtues of Asatru.


Courage
Truth
Honor
Fidelity
Discipline
Hospitality
Industriousness
Self-Reliance
Perseverance

...his avowed intention to push religion into public schools, teach bronze-age myth on a par with science and discriminate against homosexuals...

You can't push that through with freedom of religion.

And by supporting his version of the bible in the constitution, he is in esscence ignoring the first ammendment.

Anyway.

Someone argued that Huck was a nutty neocon theocrat?

I wasnt aware that was ever even up for debate, even by those who support him.

The thing is, the people who he gets his strongest support from, evangelical christians, LOVE that hes theocrat. They constantly push for ammendments to ban abortion and single out gays. Hell, they want a theocracy.


However, he wont win. He cant win. Hes too fringe. He only won Iowa because most of the Republican base are Evangelicals. He lost NH, and he will lose Michigan and most likely South Carolina. And if he gets the nomination, the Democrats will crush him, because the moderate Republicans will be put off by his crazyness and will go for Obama's more moderateness (assuming he ends up winning, which its starting to look like he might).

no

he wants constitutional ammendments outlawing abortion and gay marriage.

he feels that HIS understanding of the bible must be reflected in the constitution.

....

and he is probably also in favor of prayer in schools but im not sure about that.
You forgot that he wants Christian creationism taught in school on par with evolution, if not having evolution dumped outright.

Now comes the $1,000,000 question. Which God, becau[se not everyone worship the Christian God.....I'd like to see the Nine Noble Virtues of Asatru.


Courage
Truth
Honor
Fidelity
Discipline
Hospitality
Industriousness
Self-Reliance
Perseverance
Go no further than the Royal Families of Europe!

We'll have you back, no worries.

Good thing I've opposed Huckabee from the start, and that I've never jumped on his bandwagon.

However, he wont win. He cant win. Hes too fringe. He only won Iowa because most of the Republican base are Evangelicals. He lost NH, and he will lose Michigan and most likely South Carolina. And if he gets the nomination, the Democrats will crush him, because the moderate Republicans will be put off by his crazyness and will go for Obama's more moderateness (assuming he ends up winning, which its starting to look like he might).

If Huckabee wins the nomination, it's quite certain that I'll vote for the Democrat.

This being from someone who voted for Bush in 2004, regardless of the fact that I've become increasingly distressed by the fact that I made that decision and have undergone serious reconsiderations of my political beliefs.

So it would be anticonstitutional to have a law either way. Which (or how many) to teach should only be decided at a school level, either by teacher's desicion or by parent's vote (or whatever).

You forgot that he wants Christian creationism taught in school on par with evolution, if not having evolution dumped outright.

oh yeah of course he does.

they are both just theories eh?

sigh

Go no further than the Royal Families of Europe!

We'll have you back, no worries.

Which Royal Family?

If Huckabee wins the nomination, it's quite certain that I'll vote for the Democrat.

This being from someone who voted for Bush in 2004, regardless of the fact that I've become increasingly distressed by the fact that I made that decision and have undergone serious reconsiderations of my political beliefs.

Case in point;)

The only way I would ever vote Republican is if McCain and Hilary were my choices and McCain recanted his stance on vouchers. They are both too hawkish for my tastes but at least I trust McCain.

Actually no. I would write in a candidate just so I dont support anyone whos a hawk and conservative on social issus. Ill write in the Care Bears ;)

I'm Christian but I think he's pushing it wayyy to far, I mean like isolating AID/HIV infected people? Geez

Go Obama!!!!!!11111

How much money do you guys want to bet that a few days before the election, Bush will try to push for a ban on Gay Marriage again in order to get the Fundies to come out in droves and vote for the Republican?

Which Royal Family?
All of them are much the same due to institution inbreeding between them. Still, they're of good stock, and are nowadays humbler and politer than in 1776.

Anyone want to deny he's a theocrat now?

I hadn't expected him to be so upfront about his theocratic tendencies; is this openness a worrying indication of the level of support his ideas enjoy in the US?

I've got to log off now but I'll try to check in tomorrow.

I'm not sure that's what theocracy is, though. My dictionary defines it as, "a system of government in which priests rule in the name of God or a god." Huckabee hasn't proposed replacing elections with appointment by Southern Baptist preachers, in fact, he seems to want to work within the system to make the Constitution more "God-friendly."

I think a better term would be "theological democracy" as it's true it's not a true theocracy.

Isn't Huckabee's support starting to slide again? I could've sworn I read something about big increases for John McCain and declines for everybody else.

I think you're right, yesterday's Washington Post said something about that. McCain won New Hampshire, which may have something to do with it.

To be honest, I kind of just wish the Democratic and Republican leaderships undemocratically picked their nominees and got the real campaign started. The whole thing is starting to resemble a election a la middle school, where it's just a popularity contest over who has the cooler shoes, or something.

http://www.straightupsearch.com/archives/mr_t_blue.jpg

?

Chuck Huckabee ain't got nothing on that Night Elf Mohawk.

In regards to the OP, do we really need a thread to state the obvious?

In regards to the OP, do we really need a thread to state the obvious?



According to the first post, it wasn't obvious to everyone.

Or can he? :eek:

No.

He'd have to have Congress pass it with 2/3, then 2/3 of state legislatures pass it.

Incredibly hard, but still possible if the president proposes it.

Or does he (or she)? :p

Mind you, all any candidate needs to do to win my undying support is to suggest that Hilary Clinton might like mudkips.

I still don't know what a mudkip is...

Which Royal Family?

The Lichtenstein royal family!

I still don't know what a mudkip is...

You know what, neither do I. Here's what Wiki has on it.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudkip#Mudkip)

The Lichtenstein royal family!
As much fun as taking out 60% of the population of Lichtenstein out sounds, I'd advise you get one of the UK's princes that'll never get into power and starting there.

William or something. He seems alright.

You know what, neither do I. Here's what Wiki has on it.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudkip#Mudkip)

this is a mudkip

http://pokedream.com/pokerep/images/sugimori/258.jpg

i herd u liek it

And to stay on topic, why did we need a thread for this etc. etc.

As much fun as taking out 60% of the population of Lichtenstein out sounds, I'd advise you get one of the UK's princes that'll never get into power and starting there.

William or something. He seems alright.

Pff, make a new royal family, one made entirely of cattle trainers!

It's a sad time when internet memes win you nominations for presidential candidacy.

Mind you, all any candidate needs to do to win my undying support is to suggest that Hilary Clinton might like mudkips.

So I guess I shouldn't be throwing stones.
1. Blow up van
2. Use steroids
3. Hack computers
4. Vote Hillary
5. ????
6. Profit.

old memes are old

How much money do you guys want to bet that a few days before the election, Bush will try to push for a ban on Gay Marriage again in order to get the Fundies to come out in droves and vote for the Republican?

Notice how Bush has shut the fuck up about banning gay marriage.

He doesn't want to be seen as taking away rights, and probably realized that shortly after the second term began.

1. Blow up van
2. Use steroids
3. Hack computers
4. Vote Hillary
5. ????
6. Profit.

old memes are old

Anonymous, voting for a woman?

I lol'd at that.

Man, why can't other people have the good sense that you have, Agenda08? I've been saying this for the longest time. He's just a conservative socialist/idiot socialist who thinks he's a socialist but can't quite point his government involvement in the right direction. He's just an American Ayatollah Khomieni who you can actually like, have a beer with and generally he won't have you executed by scimitar! But those Midwestern Republicans who have had a few too many Wisconsin cheeses keep on voting for him.... Alas...

Originally Posted by Monty Python's Flying Cir-Cus!:

He steals from the poor,
And gives to the rich!---
Stupid Witch!

This being from someone who voted for Bush in 2004, regardless of the fact that I've become increasingly distressed by the fact that I made that decision and have undergone serious reconsiderations of my political beliefs.

And I thought that I was the only one.

He doesn't want to be seen as taking away rights, and probably realized that shortly after the second term began.




Uuuuuh.....


Do we live in the same reality?

"The very first act of the new Bush administration was to have a Protestant Evangelist minister officially dedicate the inauguration to Jesus Christ, whom he declared to be 'our savior.'"
-Los Angeles Times

"I really appreciate leaders from around the globe who have come to share in prayer with us today. It reminds me that the Almighty God is a God to everybody, every person."
-George W. Bush

"The days of discriminating against religious institutions simply because they are religious must come to an end."
-George W. Bush, rejecting (and misrepresenting) the separation of church and state which is mandated by our Constitution.

"I ask Americans to bow our heads in humility before our Heavenly Father, a God who calls us not to judge our neighbors, but to love them, to ask His guidance upon our nation and its leaders in every level of government."
-George W. Bush, National Day of Prayer Proclamation, Jan 2001 (one of his first acts as president)

I urge all Texans to answer the call to serve those in need. By volunteering their time, energy or resources to helping others, adults and youngsters follow Christ's message of love and service in thought and deed.
Therefore, I, George W Bush, Governor of Texas, do hereby proclaim June 10, 2000, Jesus Day in Texas and urge the appropriate recognition whereof,
In official recognition whereof,
I hereby affix my signature this
17th day of April, 2000.
-George W. Bush, "Jesus Day 2000" Proclamation

"I've heard the call. I believe God wants me to run for president."
-George W. Bush

I could keep going, but I think you get the point.

Huckabee is a theocrat...just like our current administration. Why should people be surprised to see another theocrat running for office, when we've had one for two terms?

Huckabee is a theocrat...just like our current administration. Why should people be surprised to see another theocrat running for office, when we've had one for two terms?

Well as the ancient Roman philosopher Seneca once said "religion is regarded by the commoners as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful".

Are we really expecting a candidate that wouldn't milk religion for all its worth in order to win? Remember all the flap John Kerry came up with about being a devout Catholic? Bush just out-religion'ed him. Stir up enough fear that the evil democrats will turn America into "a Godless, Baby-killing, F*g-loving, socialism" (direct quote, spoken in full seriousness, by one of my neocon friends) and the democrats have a long fight ahead of them, because you can't just ignore the 90% of the American population that is Christian.

This is the finishing blow to any support I might have for Huckabee. I'm not atheist, I'm Jewish - and I do not trust Christian theocrats. Do I need to explain why?

If the US becomes a Christian theocracy, I will collect all my possessions, and move to Israel.

And to stay on topic, why did we need a thread for this etc. etc.

Because some people are in denial.

Well as the ancient Roman philosopher Seneca once said "religion is regarded by the commoners as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful".

Are we really expecting a candidate that wouldn't milk religion for all its worth in order to win? Remember all the flap John Kerry came up with about being a devout Catholic? Bush just out-religion'ed him. Stir up enough fear that the evil democrats will turn America into "a Godless, Baby-killing, F*g-loving, socialism" (direct quote, spoken in full seriousness, by one of my neocon friends) and the democrats have a long fight ahead of them, because you can't just ignore the 90% of the American population that is Christian.

And if a theocrat is elected, I'm moving to Alaska, thats a s far as you can get from Us influence while still being in the USA.

Now comes the $1,000,000 question. Which God, becau[se not everyone worship the Christian God.....I'd like to see the Nine Noble Virtues of Asatru.

Pity none of his opponents will have the proverbial balls to point that out even though it is one of the core ideals of the USA.

Pity the fundamentalist christian movement has almost destroyed the bastion of religious freedom.

It's a sad time when internet memes win you nominations for presidential candidacy.

Mind you, all any candidate needs to do to win my undying support is to suggest that Hilary Clinton might like mudkips.

this is a mudkip

http://pokedream.com/pokerep/images/sugimori/258.jpg

Aww, they're adorable. If Hillary Clinton declares her support for mudkips I'm definitely voting for her, policies be damned.

Slightly more on-topic, I hope statements like this from Huckabee will hurt his support. Even if they agree with Huckabee, how comfortable are people with the idea that we should just amend the Constitution every time we want to limit individual rights? Isn't that a bad habit to get into? Do you want your opponents to have precedent to do the same thing?

Hands off my Constitution, dammit!

oh yeah of course he does.

they are both just theories eh?

sigh

Yes they are: one with external, observable evidence to support it, one without.

As to Huckabee wanting a theocracy in America: sure he does. And I am sure there are Muslim leaders who want the same. All in all it doesn't matter because America is too religiously diverse for any one religion to establish a theocracy.

To return to the original Huckabee statements:

How often has the Bible been amended or adjusted throughout its history ?
Does Huckabee know that ?

isnt huckabee talking about his support of constitutional ammendments that would outlaw abortion and gay marriage?

what rational is there for such a stance but religion?

there is no rationelle for such a stance at all, whatsoever, period. INCLUDING religeon.

no one, other then whatever god or gods there might be, know their will or word, but themselves. no human priest ever has, can, or will.

only what it/they have choosen humans among us to channel to us can ever be known by us, and then only that there are were those who claimed, rightly or wrongly to have done so, and what they have said.

i certainly believe every revealer of organized belief MAY have been valid, and if so, channelled THE SAME god, whatever unimaginable thing that god might be, whether appearing singular or multiple or anything else about it.

neither mike huckabee, nor anything else ever to have walked this earth on two legs, KNOW what the "word of god" is.

there is absolutely NO reason to assume, what he proposes might not be directly contrary to it.

=^^=
.../\...

How much money do you guys want to bet that a few days before the election, Bush will try to push for a ban on Gay Marriage again in order to get the Fundies to come out in droves and vote for the Republican?

So wait, I am betting that this will occur??

If so, I've got $20 that concurs.

No.

He'd have to have Congress pass it with 2/3, then 2/3 of state legislatures pass it.

Incredibly hard, but still possible if the president proposes it.

... and has God on his side. :p

only what it/they have choosen humans among us to channel to us can ever be known by us, and then only that there are were those who claimed, rightly or wrongly to have done so, and what they have said.

Yeah, I know a woman who is like that. They let her on the bus without a ticket, but that's about as far as it goes.

EDIT: That's a joke, but the woman is real. She thinks she channels God, everyone else takes pity on her for being a raving nutter.