NationStates Jolt Archive

You know, I am just sick and tired of hearing about the fight between the Democrats and Republican on the Health Care issues. Yes it's a problem, and yes it needs to be address. However, it's not being addressed. Rather both sides are doing nothing but a "tug of war" with the issues. It's like watching two girls fight over a rag doll. What's even more scarier is that the people who are eventually going to decide on this issue aren't even in the Medical Field.

Here's what I propose, have a committee of Doctors, Nurses, basically anyone who has to do something with the Medical Field, let them work out how to solve the Medical Care problem, then all the idiots in Congress can vote on the bill that they propose and the one idiot in the White House can either approve the Bill or Veto it.

For once I would like for them to do this right instead of trying to piss everyone off (like they usually do) but since I highly doubt that they will, meh, I think they should just shut up and let the people who are in the Medical Field, those who know how to handle the problem work it out themselves.

Here's what I propose, have a committee of Doctors, Nurses, basically anyone who has to do something with the Medical Field, let them work out how to solve the Medical Care problem, then all the idiots in Congress can vote on the bill that they propose and the one idiot in the White House can either approve the Bill or Veto it.

You do realize that this is what congressional subcommittees are for, right? And besides, why would a doctor be particularly qualified to address how to create and fund a health care system?

You do realize that this is what congressional subcommittees are for, right? And besides, why would a doctor be particularly qualified to address how to create and fund a health care system?

Because they work in it, they know the in and out of it, they studied it for 8 years.

Because they work in it, they know the in and out of it, they studied it for 8 years.
Still, without lawyers and economists being consulted in the lead-up, it wouldn't exactly be foolproof.

why not just give universal health care a try and see if you like it :)

You know, I am just sick and tired of hearing about the fight between the Democrats and Republican on the Health Care issues. Yes it's a problem, and yes it needs to be address. However, it's not being addressed. Rather both sides are doing nothing but a "tug of war" with the issues. It's like watching two girls fight over a rag doll. What's even more scarier is that the people who are eventually going to decide on this issue aren't even in the Medical Field.

Here's what I propose, have a committee of Doctors, Nurses, basically anyone who has to do something with the Medical Field, let them work out how to solve the Medical Care problem, then all the idiots in Congress can vote on the bill that they propose and the one idiot in the White House can either approve the Bill or Veto it.

For once I would like for them to do this right instead of trying to piss everyone off (like they usually do) but since I highly doubt that they will, meh, I think they should just shut up and let the people who are in the Medical Field, those who know how to handle the problem work it out themselves.

You're going to ask doctors and nurses, who specialize in medicine, to draw up a financial program for the US? Hate to say it, but doctors aren't remotely capable of doing it. That's like asking construction workers to draw up a national building code.

why not just give universal health care a try and see if you like it :)

$9 trillion in debt. We don't have remotely the amount of money to power universal health care. Hell, as it is, we don't even have enough to power social security, which is expected to go under during the next decade.

You know, I am just sick and tired of hearing about the fight between the Democrats and Republican on the Health Care issues. Yes it's a problem, and yes it needs to be address. However, it's not being addressed. Rather both sides are doing nothing but a "tug of war" with the issues. It's like watching two girls fight over a rag doll. What's even more scarier is that the people who are eventually going to decide on this issue aren't even in the Medical Field.

Here's what I propose, have a committee of Doctors, Nurses, basically anyone who has to do something with the Medical Field, let them work out how to solve the Medical Care problem, then all the idiots in Congress can vote on the bill that they propose and the one idiot in the White House can either approve the Bill or Veto it.

For once I would like for them to do this right instead of trying to piss everyone off (like they usually do) but since I highly doubt that they will, meh, I think they should just shut up and let the people who are in the Medical Field, those who know how to handle the problem work it out themselves.

But the issue isn't a medical one. It's an economic one. It's not about medical care should be available, it's about how it's going to be paid for.

There is an issue where the politicians should butt out and leave it to the medical practitioners however. It's on the issue of prescription drugs. The DEA is coercing doctors into under medicating patients with chronic pain problems in the guise of "fighting drug abuse." That's law enforcement officers acting as doctors and trying to turn doctors into law enforcement officers.

Hell, as it is, we don't even have enough to power social security, which is expected to go under during the next decade.
Not by any reasonable people.

Not by any reasonable people.

Uhh, yeah. The surplus gives out in 2012 and it officially enters the red zone.

$9 trillion in debt. We don't have remotely the amount of money to power universal health care. Hell, as it is, we don't even have enough to power social security, which is expected to go under during the next decade.

then cut your military spending, you could probably save a few bob by reducing the pointless overkill nuke stockpile (sell the weapons to Iran win/win:p)

Uhh, yeah. The surplus gives out in 2012 and it officially enters the red zone.
Which doesn't mean the system collapses, because there are reserves that can be used to keep going as it is today until somewhere around 2040 (http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/TR04/II_project.html#wp105724). And that means there is time to rework the system and change the funding for it. That's not actually that hard: Here (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/07/opinion/07krugman.html) is a pro-social security argument made by someone who knows what he's talking about.

Because they work in it, they know the in and out of it, they studied it for 8 years.
But they stil have very diverse opinions on the matter and have been trained in how to administer treatment but they can't be expected to be experts on everything. Also, what doctors and nurses? They are not a homologous group and they do have their own political beliefs.

I think you guys got this pretty well. To recap: it is not a medical problem per se, but an administrative, political, and, most of all, economic one. To have those trained in medicine sort it out would likely be disastrous, as they are not equipped to effectively deal with such things, do not have the proper mind set.

Not by any reasonable people.

then cut your military spending, you could probably save a few bob by reducing the pointless overkill nuke stockpile (sell the weapons to Iran win/win:p)

Actually, unconstitutional, non-discretionary social programs, including and dominated by Social Security, already exceed 40 percent of the $2.7 trillion federal budget. By 2030, their share could hit 75 percent of the present budget. That could certainly be problematic, even if we gutted our military and gave the remains to our enemies. Then again, if we did that, we probably wouldn't live long enough to worry about it. So I guess that is win/win.

Because they work in it, they know the in and out of it, they studied it for 8 years.

No, they don't. Doctors study how to treat patients. They know how to treat patients. They don't know how much supplies cost. They don't know the optimal nurse to patient ratio. They don't know how to properly set ambulance routes. They don't know how much utilities for a full sized hospital cost. As a general rule, a doctor's knowledge about health care law is limited, at best, and most hospital doctors just know what their lawyers have told them to do and not to do.

Doctors know how to treat patients. That's what they studied to do, that's what they've trained to do. Doctors know how to treat patients. They generally know absolutly fuck all about running hospitals. That's what hospital administrators are for.

Actually, unconstitutional, non-discretionary social programs, including and dominated by Social Security, already exceed 40 percent of the $2.7 trillion federal budget. By 2030, their share could hit 75 percent of the present budget.* That could certainly be problematic, even if we gutted our military and gave the remains to our enemies. Then again, if we did that, we probably wouldn't live long enough to worry about it. So I guess that is win/win.

can I get some source please?

*er thats the predicted budget of the future right?

Still, without lawyers and economists being consulted in the lead-up, it wouldn't exactly be foolproof.

having someone who thinks that building an industry out of being profitable isn't well suited to medicine . . .I think that they (and in america from what I've seen) do put the profitaility above and beyond treating people and actually making inroads to more effective treatments, as well as the lack of prevenative measures to make sure people don't get sick in the first place

as far as doctors helping with this. . . they're the ones who deal with this everyday . . .and a lot of progress that's occured over the last century as well as this one has been a result of a participatory approach involving all levels of an industry instead of the top down "expert says to do this" approach

as far as doctors helping with this. . . they're the ones who deal with this everyday . . .and a lot of progress that's occured over the last century as well as this one has been a result of a participatory approach involving all levels of an industry instead of the top down "expert says to do this" approach

Of course, the position of medicla experts is absolutly necessary. But the idea that we should leave designing the system up to doctors is...ascinine. It's not their job, it's not their profession, it's not their training.

The role of doctors in designing a health care system should be "tell me what you need to successfully treat patients". That's it. Tell us what you need in order ot do your job.

Now we'll hand it over to the other folks who ARE trained in this matter to figure out the best way to get it.

No, they don't. Doctors study how to treat patients. They know how to treat patients. They don't know how much supplies cost. They don't know the optimal nurse to patient ratio. They don't know how to properly set ambulance routes. They don't know how much utilities for a full sized hospital cost. As a general rule, a doctor's knowledge about health care law is limited, at best, and most hospital doctors just know what their lawyers have told them to do and not to do.

I disagree with that one, I say that they would have a pretty good idea of how stressed the nurses are. I think that it would be stupid to give them no say but it would be absurd to give them the full say. Doctors do know a lot, but not enough to make up a decision on their own.

can I get some source please?

*er thats the predicted budget of the future right?

Yes (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21849). Sorry I didn't already do that, and sorry it wasn't in quotes (I originally put the "" then went to paste, but selected those quotes rather than placing the text in between them); also, sorry I can only site the article that talks about them rather than the actual projection (yes, it is a projection).

I think that it would be stupid to give them no say but it would be absurd to give them the full say. Doctors do know a lot, but not enough to make up a decision on their own.

Of course, doctors have valuable knowledge related to the field. But again, that knowledge generally pertains to the resources they'd need to adequately do their job, namely, treating patients. Not how to get those resources, or what they cost, or anything else.

Let's change it slightly. I'm a lawyer. If you ask, I can tell you about how long it takes me to do something, what resources I need to do it, what things I would change to make my job easier, and generally I can tell you all the things that would help me be a good lawyer.

How much those things would cost, how would we get them, what would we have to sacrifice for them? I have absolutly no idea.

We already have a system like the OP's, through state medical boards and the American Medical Association. And the only thing that has happened is that those in charge have used their powers to benefit themselves by imposing price floors on medical care all about.

Here's what I propose, have a committee of Doctors, Nurses, basically anyone who has to do something with the Medical Field, let them work out how to solve the Medical Care problem, then all the idiots in Congress can vote on the bill that they propose and the one idiot in the White House can either approve the Bill or Veto it..


Bad idea Wilgy!

See, the "Medical Feild" is what?

A Business, like any other.
Theyre arent there to be a loving caring bunch of altruistic folks who will take loving care of you when you fall sick.

They are selling good health.

If you cant pay for it, youre shit out of luck, unless its an emergency.
If it IS an emergency, not to worry, they'll just bill you for it.
Problem is, (oh yah), its fooking stoopid exspensive!

Letting them work it out by themselves, is like asking the oil companies what to do about the high cost of gasoline.

"Raise it even higher!", is all they'll say.

Heres a couple of questions for you:

Can you name the only "Western" nation to NOT have socialized medicine?

and,

"Can you guess where, out of every nation on earth, America ranked in terms of overall health care?"

If you said "America", and "#37 behind Slovenia at #36", you win a cookie.

$9 trillion in debt. We don't have remotely the amount of money to power universal health care. Hell, as it is, we don't even have enough to power social security, which is expected to go under during the next decade.
You know that the governments of countries who have universal health care pay less per capita for health care than the US government, right? Switching to a universal health care system would save you money, not cost more of it.

You know, I am just sick and tired of hearing about the fight between the Democrats and Republican on the Health Care issues. Yes it's a problem, and yes it needs to be address. However, it's not being addressed. Rather both sides are doing nothing but a "tug of war" with the issues. It's like watching two girls fight over a rag doll. What's even more scarier is that the people who are eventually going to decide on this issue aren't even in the Medical Field.

Here's what I propose, have a committee of Doctors, Nurses, basically anyone who has to do something with the Medical Field, let them work out how to solve the Medical Care problem, then all the idiots in Congress can vote on the bill that they propose and the one idiot in the White House can either approve the Bill or Veto it.

For once I would like for them to do this right instead of trying to piss everyone off (like they usually do) but since I highly doubt that they will, meh, I think they should just shut up and let the people who are in the Medical Field, those who know how to handle the problem work it out themselves.Putting doctors and nurses in charge of figuring out how to do the healthcare system would be like putting people who know environmental science in charge of the EPA...

I know the solution for our healthcare problems. Create a cap on the settlements for malpractice suits against licensed accredited doctors. If a doctor makes a mistake (by this I mean a legitimate mistake not "I had one too many shots before the surgery") he shouldn't be sued into oblivion as a result.

When malpractice suits become less expensive, malpractice insurance will become less expensive so doctors will be able to lower their rates and private health insurance prices will come down. Ta-da! Of course this relies on everyone agreeing not to widen their profit margins... Still, If feel that if they are presented with the alternative of socialized healthcare, they'd agree to lowering rates through the whole chain.

Regenius<------- Not a doctor

Of course this relies on everyone agreeing not to widen their profit margins... :D
And it's why that would probably fail.

:D
And it's why that would probably fail.

Damn human nature... :p

I know the solution for our healthcare problems. Create a cap on the settlements for malpractice suits against licensed accredited doctors. If a doctor makes a mistake (by this I mean a legitimate mistake not "I had one too many shots before the surgery") he shouldn't be sued into oblivion as a result.

Caps are a bad idea. Even without the pain and suffering allotments, patients who may need life-long care after such a suit should have that care paid for - and that's going to be a lot of money.

I think it would be better to have all malpractice suits examined by a panel of doctors - with the patient's and doctor's names removed. Any licensed doctor in the state would be eligible for this in much the same way that anyone registered to vote is eligible for jury duty. Said doctors would be responsible for examining the case and giving a medical opinion on whether or not a malpractice case is justified (ie. was there a true screw up or was it a known risk?). Given the report from the panel, a judge can either decide whether or not a case can proceed.

I bow to you, good sir.Dem is a "wimmin."

Caps are a bad idea. Even without the pain and suffering allotments, patients who may need life-long care after such a suit should have that care paid for - and that's going to be a lot of money.

I think it would be better to have all malpractice suits examined by a panel of doctors - with the patient's and doctor's names removed. Any licensed doctor in the state would be eligible for this in much the same way that anyone registered to vote is eligible for jury duty. Said doctors would be responsible for examining the case and giving a medical opinion on whether or not a malpractice case is justified (ie. was there a true screw up or was it a known risk?). Given the report from the panel, a judge can either decide whether or not a case can proceed.

A far better idea.

I bow to you, good sir.

Regenius<------- Still not a doctor

You know, I am just sick and tired of hearing about the fight between the Democrats and Republican on the Health Care issues. Yes it's a problem, and yes it needs to be address. However, it's not being addressed. Rather both sides are doing nothing but a "tug of war" with the issues. It's like watching two girls fight over a rag doll. What's even more scarier is that the people who are eventually going to decide on this issue aren't even in the Medical Field.

Here's what I propose, have a committee of Doctors, Nurses, basically anyone who has to do something with the Medical Field, let them work out how to solve the Medical Care problem, then all the idiots in Congress can vote on the bill that they propose and the one idiot in the White House can either approve the Bill or Veto it.

For once I would like for them to do this right instead of trying to piss everyone off (like they usually do) but since I highly doubt that they will, meh, I think they should just shut up and let the people who are in the Medical Field, those who know how to handle the problem work it out themselves.

I agree with that.

The NHS has the problem that you have this level of oversight but you also have these government imposed managers who are trying to run the NHS as a business.

Its a no win game. If governments were serious about reducing NHS costs they would be reducing the price of care....medicines to facilities and surgical equipment etc. Of course that is a non starter for several reasons but no Government is going to admit that they are effectively powerless.