NationStates Jolt Archive

You know, I'm not a big Bush hater. He's not my favorite guy in the world, but I'm not one of those with pitchforks out trying to hang him and blame him for inventing cancer in his secret lab, giving birth to Satan, building the first Le Car...ect

But here is where I DO get mad.....when Bush licks the butt of another nation and get's himself involved in the political discussion of something he knows nothing about on another continent, just for +1 political points in the international arena:

WASHINGTON - President Bush gave Turkey's bid to join the European Union a glowing endorsement on Tuesday and called the Islamic nation a "constructive bridge" between the West and the Muslim world, offering a much-needed boost to U.S.-Turkish relations.

"I think Turkey sets a fantastic example for nations around the world to see where it's possible to have a democracy coexist with a great religion like Islam and that's important," he said.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Bush spoke to reporters following a meeting with Turkish President Abdullah Gul. The two appeared together on the South Lawn, where Bush said he supported Turkey's efforts to fight the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK rebels, in northern Iraq.

Bush called the PKK an enemy to Turkey, Iraq and "to people who want to live in peace."

Gul's visit to the White House is seen as a major sign of improved relations between the two NATO allies after five years of acrimony over the Iraq war and U.S. policy on Turkey's fight against Kurdish rebels.

It follows a visit by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan two months ago that resulted in a commitment by Bush to share intelligence on PKK and not to object to Turkish airstrikes against the Kurdish guerrillas' installations in northern Iraq.

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said that a key item on Bush's agenda was encouraging Turkish leaders to pursue a "long-term political solution" to the PKK problem, cooperating with Iraqi leaders who also are concerned about the group's activities. She said that the U.S. doesn't have any particular solution or process in mind, but wants to play a constructive role in ending a long-standing dispute.
Bush has no idea about the nature of the Turkish state and whether or not it belongs in the European Union (it doesn't), thus he should keep his head out of such issues and rather only in those that he has an understanding of: His own problem filled nation, for instance.

:headbang:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080108/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_turkey

President Bush making a misinformed decision and/or statement on foreign policy and the direction the world should take? Goddamnit, I'm shocked. really.

President Bush making a misinformed decision and/or statement on foreign policy and the direction the world should take? Goddamnit, I'm shocked. really.

Pinochet Fanboy only gets upset about that when it's applied in favor of a Muslim nation.

It's like he doesn't even understand the negative impact that Turkey joining the European Union would have....It's not even a European country for God's sake!

It's not like Turkey is a socialist state.

President Bush making a misinformed decision and/or statement on foreign policy and the direction the world should take? Goddamnit, I'm shocked. really.
It's like he doesn't even understand the negative impact that Turkey joining the European Union would have....It's not even a European country for God's sake!

Pinochet Fanboy only gets upset about that when it's applied in favor of a Muslim nation.

Beat me to it.

What pisses me off about Bush is the whole "still alive" thing.....

Pinochet Fanboy only gets upset about that when it's applied in favor of a Muslim nation.
Pinochet fanboy? Just because I supported Pinochet over Communism in the extreme circumstances surrounding Chile at the time does not mean that I would want him as a leader of a peaceful stable nation.....:rolleyes:

Different situations call for different leaders and actions....

What that has to do with Bush's retarded statement here...I have no idea...care to explain that?

And let's NOT make this a thread about Pinochet...as you're well aware, I'm more than happy to discuss him in relevant threads.

It's not like Turkey is a socialist state.
What?....?

I do have to agree that Turkey shouldn't be in the E.U, though I would hazard to guess for different reasons

maybe Bush should be gagged and held in chains?

Well, first of all he's right when he talks about the importance of Turkey when it comes to dealing with the Middle East. They are a member of NATO afterall, and a fiercely secular country.

Secondly, this isn't the first time he said it. I believe at the last NATO summit he did too, and Chirac told him in no uncertain terms to mind his own business.

Thirdly, I don't think there's good policy to be made by making it clear from the start that Turkey can never join. There are problems to be worked out, big enough to prevent me from supporting it right now, but there's no reason to oppose the bid on principle.

I do have to agree that Turkey shouldn't be in the E.U, though I would hazard to guess for different reasons
Why do you think so?
maybe Bush should be gagged and held in chains?
I don't find that hot. Not my thing.

Too bad a lesson in foreign affairs isn't a pre-requisite for the presidency...

Well, first of all he's right when he talks about the importance of Turkey when it comes to dealing with the Middle East. They are a member of NATO afterall, and a fiercely secular country.

a big reason for Turkeys application IIRC is that in the event of a European theater conflict Turkey will be providing a huge chunk of the ground forces (40%?) however it will have no real say in how the troops will be deployed

There are problems to be worked out, big enough to prevent me from supporting it right now, but there's no reason to oppose the bid on principle.

on paper it looks good but Northern Cyprus and the Kurds have really been places Turkey has put its foot down on

Why do you think so?

because they don't fulfill E.U requirements seeming to be playing the whole process like a big game which leads to the bitching of "is it cus I is Muslim?"

I don't find that hot. Not my thing.

I was just going to tie one on his ankles down and have him dance for my enjoyment

what did you have planned?

Too bad a lesson in foreign affairs isn't a pre-requisite for the presidency...
One of my majors is International Relations and Comparitive Politics....too bad Bush isn't/didn't studying/study it. :rolleyes:

One of my majors is International Relations and Comparitive Politics....too bad Bush isn't/didn't. :rolleyes:

looking to be a laborer are we? :p

Bush has no idea about the nature of the Turkish state and whether or not it belongs in the European Union (it doesn't), thus he should keep his head out of such issues and rather only in those that he has an understanding of: His own problem filled nation, for instance.

Why doesn't it?

You know, I'm not a big Bush hater. He's not my favorite guy in the world, but I'm not one of those with pitchforks out trying to hang him and blame him for inventing cancer in his secret lab, giving birth to Satan, building the first Le Car...ect

But here is where I DO get mad.....when Bush licks the butt of another nation and get's himself involved in the political discussion of something he knows nothing about on another continent, just for +1 political points in the international arena:


Bush has no idea about the nature of the Turkish state and whether or not it belongs in the European Union (it doesn't), thus he should keep his head out of such issues and rather only in those that he has an understanding of: His own problem filled nation, for instance.

:headbang:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080108/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_turkey

At least he didn't try to eat them. That would've been bad..... :p

Maybe I'm misreading something - but where did Bush mention Turkey's bid to join the EU?

edit:nvm, I found the quote in another article. That Yahoo article is misleading.

It is part of Bush's ingenius scheme to flood Europe with mercs dressed as Turks and from there launch a bloody assualt of waterballons and sand kicking into the face of his hated European rivals.:p

Maybe I'm misreading something - but where did Bush mention Turkey's bid to join the EU?

edit:nvm, I found the quote in another article. That Yahoo article is misleading.
How so?

on paper it looks good but Northern Cyprus and the Kurds have really been places Turkey has put its foot down on

Add the fact that most of the nations in Southeastern Europe hates Turkey also.

Add the fact that most of the nations in Southeastern Europe hates Turkey also.
Not to mention France and Germany.

I really don't think Europe want Turkey in the EU as they were Ottoman Empire before.

So it's a bad thing to back one of our long time allies?

Well, let's see the part where you added the most smileys.

"I think Turkey sets a fantastic example for nations around the world to see where it's possible to have a democracy coexist with a great religion like Islam and that's important,"

So basically, you don't care about whether Turkey gets into the EU or not so much as whether anyone dares speak in favor of Islam, let alone saying it's a "great religion."

So Bush gets points when he's killing Muslims, but he pisses you off when he's "licking" their "ass." This entire issue is not about Turkey, it's about TAI and how much he hates Muslims. As if we needed another thread to clarify that point?

Pinochet fanboy? Just because I supported Pinochet

lulz

I really don't think Europe want Turkey in the EU as they were Ottoman Empire before.

Why not? Greatest empire named after a piece of furniture ever. *nod*

'We don't like them, they look and smell funny. Fucking foreigners.'

That seems to be the argument against Turkey.

'We don't like them, they look and smell funny. Fucking foreigners.'

That seems to be the argument against Turkey.

Tends to have been the human rights abuses that have generally put people off.

Tends to have been the human rights abuses that have generally put people off.
There are two camps in the anti-Turkey movement. There are those who think that Turkey or the EU isn't ready, be it for economic, political or human rights reasons. That's fine, in fact I'm in that camp at this point. But by the same token you'd hardly argue that Bulgaria should truly have qualified for example.

And then there's a camp that just doesn't want Turkey in full stop, for "cultural" reasons or whatever. That's just silly, because really the cultural difference between, say, Turkey and Greece is a lot smaller than the difference between Greece and Ireland. The EU is quite large, flexible and diverse enough to tolerate different cultures and religions.

There are two camps in the anti-Turkey movement. There are those who think that Turkey or the EU isn't ready, be it for economic, political or human rights reasons. That's fine, in fact I'm in that camp at this point. But by the same token you'd hardly argue that Bulgaria should truly have qualified for example.

I wouldn't argue that Bulgaria should have joined. I think it's disgusting that countries who have known corruption problems, were told to fix them and didn't, were still allowed to join just because we said so a few years ago.

Bulgaria might not be a prime example, but corruption is a problem in a lot of eastern european countries and it's not a positive thing to have corrupt influences in the EU.

I'm sure Bush doesn't care too much and that allows him to gain whatever deal he got in return for saying what he did.

What is the deal with approving the bombing of Kurds? I thought part of the reason for taking out Saddam was his treatment of the Kurds. Fair enough these reasons were found to support the war after the decision but some consistency please?

This is the real problem, and it's not just Bush, it's most politics, people can just say what they want in the knowledge that they have to say something really, really dumb for it to negatively affect them.

Not even dumb because we're only really interested in who they're sleeping with, keep your trysts secret and you're guaranteed power for life no matter what you do or say.

If Turkey can meet the same criteria that other EU candidate countries meet, I've no objection to Turkish EU membership. In fact, I'd actively encourage it.

Not to mention France and Germany.

Germany hating Turkey? Ok, I've been gone 4 years now, but I can't imagine Merkel messing up the country THIS badly???

I really don't think Europe want Turkey in the EU as they were Ottoman Empire before.

Well, they let Spain join, and that used to be Al-Andalus...

I'm not certain if Turkey should join the EU or not. There are good arguments for or against, but "It's not in Europe" isn't one of them.

There are two camps in the anti-Turkey movement. There are those who think that Turkey or the EU isn't ready, be it for economic, political or human rights reasons. That's fine, in fact I'm in that camp at this point. But by the same token you'd hardly argue that Bulgaria should truly have qualified for example.

And then there's a camp that just doesn't want Turkey in full stop, for "cultural" reasons or whatever.
What about people who have one foot in BOTH of those camps...in other words, are against it for economic, social, political and human right reasons AND because of the fact that it is a non-European nation trying to join the European Union.
Germany hating Turkey? Ok, I've been gone 4 years now, but I can't imagine Merkel messing up the country THIS badly???
Oh stop your bitching about Merkel....I'm sure she's just messed up the country sooooo bad. :rolleyes: Can I see some proof of this, or is it rather, like I thought, just your left wing bitching about your Conservative leader....:rolleyes:


Anyway, here: She's generally been speaking out against Turkey and it's EU membership
http://www.gopusa.com/news/2006/december/1206_chirac_turkey.shtml
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,452317,00.html
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=21412
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1356052,00.html

Yes, we are friends with Turkey, but Turkey's membership is going to constrain the EU,” Merkel was quoted as saying by private NTV channel yesterday during an election campaign speech she delivered in Augsburg city of Bavaria.

“Thus, we don't want Turkey in the EU. We've been proposing ‘privileged partnership' instead,” she said referring to a special status favored for Turkey by her Christian Democrat Union (CDU) and its sister party, the Christian Social Union (CSU), something that falls short of full membership for Turkey.


If Turkey can meet the same criteria that other EU candidate countries meet, I've no objection to Turkish EU membership. In fact, I'd actively encourage it.
Why? What good can come from it? I'd like to see some polling of European PEOPLE (not Governments) and see if this is a good idea. From my travels I've found that most normal people are sick of the amount of immigration, and I hardly beleive that they'd jump for joy at the prospect of 70 million more Turks being able to immigrant freely throughout Europe.

Very true. Quite why Turkey merits membership of the EU is beyond me, given that all it will accomplish is to further fulfil the pseudo-socialist megalomaniac ambitions of those despicable arses who sit enthroned in Brussels and crow over their ability to ride roughshod over national autonomy.

Well, they let Spain join, and that used to be Al-Andalus...

The difference being that the reconquista occurred in the 1100's and 1200's, whereas the Ottoman empire disintegrated less than a century ago. Not that you'd consider that worthwhile would you? After all, true to left wing form, you have no regard for historical scale or such subtleties, only for history as a means to justify your perveted, emotionally stunted, fluffy bunny conception of the world.

Oh stop your bitching about Merkel....I'm sure she's just messed up the country sooooo bad. :rolleyes: Can I see some proof of this, or is it rather, like I thought, just your left wing bitching about your Conservative leader....:rolleyes:

Huh? You're the one who claimed that Germany on the whole hates all of Turkey. I was asking you where you got that from.

Very true. Quite why Turkey merits membership of the EU is beyond me, given that all it will accomplish is to further fulfil the pseudo-socialist megalomaniac ambitions of those despicable arses who sit enthroned in Brussels and crow over their ability to ride roughshod over national autonomy.

Meh. National autonomy is an artificial construct anyway. I prefer the personal freedom the EU provides.

I'd like to point out that Turkey is European, in the same sense that Russia is.

Now, if you can effectively argue that Russia isn't European, then you could probably argue that Turkey isn't European.

Until then, there isn't much of an argument that Turkey isn't European.

The difference being that the reconquista occurred in the 1100's and 1200's, whereas the Ottoman empire disintegrated less than a century ago. Not that you'd consider that worthwhile would you? After all, true to left wing form, you have no regard for historical scale or such subtleties, only for history as a means to justify your perveted, emotionally stunted, fluffy bunny conception of the world.

*lol
Someone needs to take a looooooong breath and count to 10 here ;)
Germany only became a democratic country 60 years back (or if you want to be really nitpicky, 17 years ago), after antagonising the entire continent, and yet nobody claimed that its past prevented it from being a full member of the EU...

Meh. National autonomy is an artificial construct anyway. I prefer the personal freedom the EU provides.

"Personal Freedom"? The freedom to live where you want? The freedom for any uneducated, unemployable layabout from any eastern european trainwreck of a country to travel to the west and leech from it? The freedom to move as you will, under a beaurocratic superstructure with all of the resources and means to control of the medieval papacy, and none of the underlying morals?

I'd sooner choose national autonomy and preserve the institutions and cultures that I care for, at the expense of a few unemployed Poles.

*lol
Someone needs to take a looooooong breath and count to 10 here ;)
Germany only became a democratic country 60 years back (or if you want to be really nitpicky, 17 years ago), after antagonising the entire continent, and yet nobody claimed that its past prevented it from being a full member of the EU...

Technically it was the most democratic country in the west after 1918.

In any case, every powerful member of the EU has royally fucked off the others at some point; the difference is, they were European. Turkey is not; it's roots are in the Levant, it's religion Arabic, and its history has seen it unify the states of Europe against it.

I'd like to point out that Turkey is European, in the same sense that Russia is.

Now, if you can effectively argue that Russia isn't European, then you could probably argue that Turkey isn't European.

Until then, there isn't much of an argument that Turkey isn't European.

Well, Russia isn't European. It's polity owes more to traditions of Eastern absolutism than European democracy, it's culture and religion stands apart from Europe, and geographically, perhaps only 1/3 of the country could be considered "European".

That said, Russia's christianity does render it more European than Turkey can hope to be.You clarly have precious little understanding of Russian history if you can equate Russia's differences from Europe to those of the Ottoman empire.

Huh? You're the one who claimed that Germany on the whole hates all of Turkey. I was asking you where you got that from.
Are you blind?
Meh. National autonomy is an artificial construct anyway. I prefer the personal freedom the EU provides.
Yes....I too love the way the EU grants Europeans the personal freedom to liberate themselves of the worries of governmental politics, political representation and all around political say.
I'd like to point out that Turkey is European, in the same sense that Russia is.
Russia is also not really European. It has always been it's own thing.....Russia is Russia. Remember, it took Peter the Great's iron hand to push Russians to look/act/think like Europeans so that he could Europeanize his nation...and it took his new capital to build a facade that Russia is/was European.....That facade may have fooled some people, but not me.
Until then, there isn't much of an argument that Turkey isn't European.
Oh but there is.
*lol
Someone needs to take a looooooong breath and count to 10 here ;)
Germany only became a democratic country 60 years back (or if you want to be really nitpicky, 17 years ago), after antagonising the entire continent, and yet nobody claimed that its past prevented it from being a full member of the EU...
Typical leftist fool. Like's to speak to hear himself talk, without regard for content. The REASON the EU exists is because of the intertwining together of German and France industries in the European Coal and Steel Community, so that another World War would not break out....

"Nobody claimed that it's past prevented it from being a full member of the EU" is because it is 100% because of Germany's past that an EU exists.:rolleyes: Though I suppose historical fact is not a worthy source when it goes against the Left. Now, run along and get back to supporting Castro, converting to Islam and shedding your bras, or whatever else it is you Leftists do.

"Personal Freedom"? The freedom to live where you want? The freedom for any uneducated, unemployable layabout from any eastern european trainwreck of a country to travel to the west and leech from it? The freedom to move as you will, under a beaurocratic superstructure with all of the resources and means to control of the medieval papacy, and none of the underlying morals?

I'd sooner choose national autonomy and preserve the institutions and cultures that I care for, at the expense of a few unemployed Poles.

The freedom to live where I want, work where I want, and marry who I want without facing massive buerocracy all the way day after day.
If it wasn't for the EU, I'd be an over-educated unemployed in Germany, rather than a productive member of society in Ireland.
If it wasn't for the EU, I'd face a mountain of red tape, bored and lazy-ass buerocrats and one obstacle after another for trying to marry who I want. As it is, it's gonna be simple and hassle-free.

I don't mind exchanging Bonn/Berlin buerocracy for Brussels buerocracy, espacially not since Brussels is doing more to let me be who I want and where I want than Bonn/Berlin ever did.

Technically it was the most democratic country in the west after 1918.

In any case, every powerful member of the EU has royally fucked off the others at some point; the difference is, they were European. Turkey is not; it's roots are in the Levant, it's religion Arabic, and its history has seen it unify the states of Europe against it.

Technically, it stopped being democratic in 1933.

Let me put this straight : I'm most certainly not in favour of letting Turkey join up immediately. I think they'll need at least another decade to sort themselves out far enough to be considered for membership. But on the whole, the idea to refuse a country on the base of its history seems rather ridiculous to me.

They'll have to recognise Cyprus as a country before they could join. You can't join an organisation when you don't acknowledge one of it's members.

Why? What good can come from it? I'd like to see some polling of European PEOPLE (not Governments) and see if this is a good idea. From my travels I've found that most normal people are sick of the amount of immigration, and I hardly beleive that they'd jump for joy at the prospect of 70 million more Turks being able to immigrant freely throughout Europe.
I should have known this was more a chance to bitch about immigrants rather than than about Turkey or the EU. If Turkey can meet the candidate criteria (which would undoubtedly mean changing its policy vis a vis Cyprus and the Kurds) I can see no reason why Turkish membership of the EU would be any different to the accession of the Baltic states, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria. And that includes resulting immigration, or in other words, the hordes of Bulgarians and Romanians that didn't come over.

It's not even a
European country for God's sake!


Really? Damn me somebody call the map makers!:D

But here is where I DO get mad.....when Bush licks the butt of another nation and get's himself involved in the political discussion of something he knows nothing about on another continent, just for +1 political points in the international arena:Why? I can see why a European would be opposed to having a US President meddle in strictly EU internal affairs. That he's doing it for political gain in Turkey is a laughable reason to be mad about it.


Bush has no idea about the nature of the Turkish state and whether or not it belongs in the European Union (it doesn't), thus he should keep his head out of such issues and rather only in those that he has an understanding of: His own problem filled nation, for instance.Well what a stunning coincidence! You and him have something in common.

Technically, it stopped being democratic in 1933.

Let me put this straight : I'm most certainly not in favour of letting Turkey join up immediately. I think they'll need at least another decade to sort themselves out far enough to be considered for membership. But on the whole, the idea to refuse a country on the base of its history seems rather ridiculous to me.

They'll have to recognise Cyprus as a country before they could join. You can't join an organisation when you don't acknowledge one of it's members.

Full agreement. Turkey has too much shit on its boots to be a viable addition to the EU at the moment. But to think that excludes it from ever becoming a member is ludicrous.

A lot of people have been arguing that Turkey should be kept out for geographic reasons. Those went out the window when we allowed Cyprus to join. Equally, I'd be in favor of letting Armenia and Georgia join, should they meet the requirements, and not disenfranchise them because they're located in Asia.

Are you blind?

Are you referring to invisible sources to back your shit up?

You claim Germany hates Turkey. Let's see something to support your statement other than accusations of blindness.


Russia is also not really European. It has always been it's own thing.....Russia is Russia. Remember, it took Peter the Great's iron hand to push Russians to look/act/think like Europeans so that he could Europeanize his nation...and it took his new capital to build a facade that Russia is/was European.....That facade may have fooled some people, but not me.

Oh but there is.


"I'm not fooled by the facade" is the supposed argument?

Once again, we come down to what any of your threads about EBIL FURRENERS is about - your own biases.


Typical leftist fool. Like's to speak to hear himself talk, without regard for content.

Impressive. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection)

The REASON the EU exists is because of the intertwining together of German and France industries in the European Coal and Steel Community, so that another World War would not break out....


Treaty of Paris, which you are referring to, expired in 2001-2002. The EU did not. Therefore the Treaty establishing the European Coal and Steel Community really has little to do with the European Union, which also has quite a few more member states than the original six. Much like "argument from design" arguments against gun ownership, that refer to a gun's "original purpose," your argument here is easily dismissed.


"Nobody claimed that it's past prevented it from being a full member of the EU" is because it is 100% because of Germany's past that an EU exists

I like how, according to you, there were apparently only 2 original members, and that the original members versus current members is somehow relevant, and now here you essentially say there's only one. DER VATERLAND! Really, I have no idea where you're going with this German pseudo-nationalism, other than you think worshipping everything German makes you an ubermensch or something.

Though I suppose historical fact is not a worthy source when it goes against the Left.

Irrelevant historical facts do not impress me, whether you are Left, Right, Center, or beyond such stupid labels.

Now, run along and get back to supporting Castro, converting to Islam and shedding your bras, or whatever else it is you Leftists do.

ONCE AGAIN your anti-Islamic bias reveals itself. You're nothing but an anti-Semite who learned that it's trendier, now, to hate Muslims rather than Jews.

ONCE AGAIN your anti-Islamic bias reveals itself. You're nothing but an anti-Semite who learned that it's trendier, now, to hate Muslims rather than Jews.

You know... I find it hilarious how none of the "rightists" (whatever that means) on this forum seem to be able to get a single post up without trying to insult someone or talk down to people.

... I find it hilarious how none of the "rightists" (whatever that means)...


I think it is summit to do with only using the right hand? My Dad always said '99 change hands son!'

The freedom to move as you will, under a beaurocratic superstructure with all of the resources and means to control of the medieval papacy, and none of the underlying morals?

Please, get real. The "means to control" of the medieval papacy included procedures for burning people alive, for example.

You know... I find it hilarious how none of the "rightists" (whatever that means) on this forum seem to be able to get a single post up without trying to insult someone or talk down to people.

Well, you're just saying that because you're a limp wristed leftist liberal commie pinko fag who worships Castro and is part of the Islamic fifth column to destroy freedom and America and you hate America and you hate Jesus and you hate the Jews.

And you're blind, because you can't see what isn't there. I can, and I know it's there because the voices in my head tell me! FOOL! If you only knew the POWER of the dark side... I mean, my own imagination....!

I think it is summit to do with only using the right hand? My Dad always said '99 change hands son!'

Well, I have to admit I'm left-handed, but I never thought that would make people hate me so much :p

I really don’t think Europe want Turkey in the EU as they were Ottoman Empire before.
That’s hardly the issue.

Human rights abuses, the issue of Cypriots, Kurds and Armenians, are far more pressing.

Why? What good can come from it? I’d like to see some polling of European PEOPLE (not Governments) and see if this is a good idea. From my travels I’ve found that most normal people are sick of the amount of immigration, and I hardly beleive that they’d jump for joy at the prospect of 70 million more Turks being able to immigrant freely throughout Europe.
How does one ‘immigrant freely’? I’m always on the look-out for new hobbies.

Your take on the world TAi seems increasingly detached and bizarre. Your fact-finding travels through Europe, seemingly entirely taken up with conducting scientific polls of attitudes towards Switzerland and immigration, appear to have produced a rather strange map of the world. Something like this comes to mind:

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6768/delusionvi2.jpg

You’re skirting round an interesting and worthwhile discussion, namely Turkey’s potential EU membership, but you just can’t seem to drag yourself away from the attacks on immigration, Islam and ‘leftists’.

Why not debate a meaningful topic?

Well, I have to admit I'm left-handed, but I never thought that would make people hate me so much :p

Heheh that's sinister!:D

Why not debate a meaningful topic?

Because he's ill-informed on the subject?

TAI, there is only one thing you need to know to fully understand US foreign policy:

Realpolitik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik).

The only reason the USA supports Turkey's inclusion into the EU is because they will get something out of it. Probably guaranteed military control over a broad swathe of the MIddle East and it's oil producing and transporting regions. All the reasons for excluding Turkey, whether they are based on Turkey's human rights record, or simply on your bigotry, are irrelevant in this regard.

Too bad a lesson in foreign affairs isn't a pre-requisite for the presidency...

The ability to spot the continents on a globe would have helped this one no end....

What about people who have one foot in BOTH of those camps...in other words, are against it for economic, social, political and human right reasons AND because of the fact that it is a non-European nation trying to join the European Union.

Oh stop your bitching about Merkel....I'm sure she's just messed up the country sooooo bad. :rolleyes: Can I see some proof of this, or is it rather, like I thought, just your left wing bitching about your Conservative leader....:rolleyes:


Anyway, here: She's generally been speaking out against Turkey and it's EU membership
http://www.gopusa.com/news/2006/december/1206_chirac_turkey.shtml
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,452317,00.html
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=21412
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1356052,00.html





Why? What good can come from it? I'd like to see some polling of European PEOPLE (not Governments) and see if this is a good idea. From my travels I've found that most normal people are sick of the amount of immigration, and I hardly beleive that they'd jump for joy at the prospect of 70 million more Turks being able to immigrant freely throughout Europe.Oh my God. I was going to point out that Merkel was anti-Turkish membership, but you actually already posted that. You're aware that Merkel is "government" and not "people", right? As in:
PEOPLE (not Governments)

Because he's ill-informed on the subject?

TAI, there is only one thing you need to know to fully understand US foreign policy:

Realpolitik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik).

The only reason the USA supports Turkey's inclusion into the EU is because they will get something out of it. Probably guaranteed military control over a broad swathe of the MIddle East and it's oil producing and transporting regions. All the reasons for excluding Turkey, whether they are based on Turkey's human rights record, or simply on your bigotry, are irrelevant in this regard.
I understand. That doesn't mean I can't bitch, complain and protest against our President's uninformed decisions.
Oh my God. I was going to point out that Merkel was anti-Turkish membership, but you actually already posted that. You're aware that Merkel is "government" and not "people", right? As in:
I know I posted that.....and for a reason. It's ok for the government to be anti-Turkish membership if the people tend to be anti-Turkish membership....and the point I was trying to make is that I've found most people to already be fed up with the amount of immigrants already here/there....and would not like Turkey in the European Union...Although I've been looking, and asking you guys, for polling on it.

...and the point I was trying to make is that I’ve found most people to already be fed up with the amount of immigrants already here/there....and would not like Turkey in the European Union...Although I’ve been looking, and asking you guys, for polling on it.
Then perhaps I could ask you for this ‘research’ you constantly seem to be doing around Europe; all while attending an American university. Just before Christmas, you were telling NS:G of the things ‘people were telling you’ in Switzerland. Now it’s Germany, indeed the entire of the current EU.

Where do you get the time?

More importantly, the issue of Turkish EU membership doesn’t solely consist of immigration. There are plenty other factors, something that’s been explained to you plenty in this thread. Certainly more than 'some Turkish citizens might emigrate' or 'some Turkish citizens are Islamic', which seems to be the sole concerns in your OP.

Then perhaps I could ask you for this ‘research’ you constantly seem to be doing around Europe; all while attending an American university. Just before Christmas, you were telling NS:G of the things ‘people were telling you’ in Switzerland. Now it’s Germany, indeed the entire of the current EU.
Oh I already said from my travels, but I know that is not fact for arguement on here, which is why I said I was looking for polls for EU citizens on the Turkish issue, and was asking anyone if they have seen them anywhere....

Where do you get the time?
I make time? How is that important? Don't worry yourself about how I manage my life.


More importantly, the issue of Turkish EU membership doesn’t solely consist of immigration. There are plenty other factors, something that’s been explained to you plenty in this thread. Certainly more than 'some Turkish citizens might emigrate' or 'some Turkish citizens are Islamic', which seems to be the sole concerns in your OP.
They havn't been "explained to me"...I know fullly well about the Turkish state, it's history and it's problematic issues for EU membership....but the average European person is going to care about who his neighbors are, or who's in his school or in school with his kids, alot more than what's going on in the Middle East with Cyprus, or about Turkey's holocaust...and so on....

Oh I already said from my travels, but I know that is not fact for arguement on here, which is why I said I was looking for polls for EU citizens on the Turkish issue, and was asking anyone if they have seen them anywhere....
A fair enough request. Especially as you recognise your anecdotal evidence doesn’t count.


I make time? How is that important?
Much of your arguments have been based, at least partially, on your ‘research and ‘travels’. That makes it mildly important.

They havn’t been “explained to me”...I know fullly well about the Turkish state, it’s history and it’s problematic issues for EU membership....but the average European person is going to care about who his neighbors are, or who’s in his school or in school with his kids, alot more than what’s going on in the Middle East with Cyprus, or about Turkey’s holocaust...and so on....
And more personal reflection and ‘research’.

I’m an ‘average European’, and I care more about Turkey’s human rights abuses, attitudes to Cypriots, etc., than the fact that some of its citizens believe in Allah. Moreover, I positively encourage immigration; any vibrant society needs it.

I truly think you vastly overestimate the importance the issues of immigration and Islam has to the ‘average European’, probably due to your political views. That’s why, I presume, you keep on creating these threads that always come back to you arguing against immigration and Islam.

Well it obviously doesn't say anything about what the Swiss think, but it certainly backs up what I said about Germans. I assume you know what the Eurobarometer is?

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40861000/gif/_40861344_turkey_support_gra203.gif


The poll, carried out by the European Commission, found that 52 per cent of Europeans are opposed to Turkish membership and only 35 per cent are in favour. In ten of the fifteen pre-enlargement member states there is a majority against Turkey, with opposition running as high as 80 per cent.

The survey is embarrassing for Britain, which has championed Turkish membership while lecturing other governments on the need to reconnect with public opinion after the recent EU constitution referendum defeats in France and the Netherlands. Britain, as president of the Union, will chair entry talks with Turkey, which are scheduled to start on October 3.

In Austria, opponents of Turkey’s membership out-number supporters 80 per cent to 10 per cent. Opposition is 74 per cent in Germany, 72 per cent in Luxembourg and 70 per cent in France and Greece. More people are opposed to Turkey joining than to any other potential member. In Britain, a relative majority is in favour, with 45 per cent for and 37 per cent against.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1699088,00.html

Now back to my little German friend:
Germany hating Turkey? Ok, I've been gone 4 years now, but I can't imagine Merkel messing up the country THIS badly???
1. I imagine, that you'd be wrong. Glance above at the polling.

2. It has nothing to do with Merkel, but rather how the people themselves feel. In fact, it just shows how terrible and unrepresentative Schroeder's leadership on this issue was, since most of the people are against it.

3. It's hardly a bad thing. Good for the Germans, though unfortunatly they're not as informed about the dangers as the Austrians, who it seems have not soon enough forgotten the Gates of Vienna.

What about people who have one foot in BOTH of those camps...in other words, are against it for economic, social, political and human right reasons AND because of the fact that it is a non-European nation trying to join the European Union.
They're being silly, because the latter excludes any point in concerning themselves with the former.

Fact of the matter is that expansion has been a hugely successful and powerful foreign policy tool. Compare countries like Spain and Greece, which were dictatorships, with countries in Latin America. The EU has been much more effective in dealing with its neighbours and "bringing" freedom and democracy than the US.

The reason for this is this enormously powerful carrot in the form of membership that carries with it the power to change the course of a nation for all eternity.

So Turkey has its issues - and that is precisely why there has to be the chance of joining in the future. The alternative is an end to friendly relationships between Turkey and the EU, the branding of the EU as a Christian club (and the implications of that for foreign policy and immigrant communities), no realistic chance of the Cyprus thing being solved, no better treatment for the Kurds and no religious freedom for Christians in Turkey.

And why? Because Turkey is not "European"?

Yeah, I can tell it's clearly Bush who needs to learn, not you.

You know, I'm not a big Bush hater. He's not my favorite guy in the world, but I'm not one of those with pitchforks out trying to hang him and blame him for inventing cancer in his secret lab, giving birth to Satan, building the first Le Car...ect

But here is where I DO get mad.....when Bush licks the butt of another nation and get's himself involved in the political discussion of something he knows nothing about on another continent, just for +1 political points in the international arena:


Bush has no idea about the nature of the Turkish state and whether or not it belongs in the European Union (it doesn't), thus he should keep his head out of such issues and rather only in those that he has an understanding of: His own problem filled nation, for instance.

:headbang:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080108/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_turkeyHe just wants some more "a-broad" time with his main squeeze, Condi.

They're being silly, because the latter excludes any point in concerning themselves with the former.

Fact of the matter is that expansion has been a hugely successful and powerful foreign policy tool. Compare countries like Spain and Greece, which were dictatorships, with countries in Latin America. The EU has been much more effective in dealing with its neighbours and "bringing" freedom and democracy than the US.

The reason for this is this enormously powerful carrot in the form of membership that carries with it the power to change the course of a nation for all eternity.

So Turkey has its issues - and that is precisely why there has to be the chance of joining in the future. The alternative is an end to friendly relationships between Turkey and the EU, the branding of the EU as a Christian club (and the implications of that for foreign policy and immigrant communities), no realistic chance of the Cyprus thing being solved, no better treatment for the Kurds and no religious freedom for Christians in Turkey.

And why? Because Turkey is not "European"?

Yeah, I can tell it's clearly Bush who needs to learn, not you.

Let's not forget that Burma, Cuba and North Korea are all sterling silver examples of how isolating a questionable regime from global contact and influence can actually improve society over there.

Well it obviously doesn't say anything about what the Swiss think, but it certainly backs up what I said about Germans. I assume you know what the Eurobarometer is?

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40861000/gif/_40861344_turkey_support_gra203.gif




http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1699088,00.html

Now back to my little German friend:

1. I imagine, that you'd be wrong. Glance above at the polling.

2. It has nothing to do with Merkel, but rather how the people themselves feel. In fact, it just shows how terrible and unrepresentative Schroeder's leadership on this issue was, since most of the people are against it.

3. It's hardly a bad thing. Good for the Germans, though unfortunatly they're not as informed about the dangers as the Austrians, who it seems have not soon enough forgotten the Gates of Vienna.

It's been said time and again, but I gladly repeat it :
Turkey - as it currently is, with it's human rights violations, it's attitude towards Cyprus and other issues - cannot and should not be granted EU membership.
I assume that's what those polls have been asking, as I can't see evidence to the contrary.
However, once Turkey has sorted out those issues, I (and most of the other posters in this thread as far as I can tell. I will not make assumptions on German opinion, as I've been gone for a while now and visits tend to give you a scewed image) have no objection to them joining.

You seem to be the only one who would hold a country's history against it when it comes to current politics...

Oh, and on Schroeder and Merkel... you ARE aware that Merkel, unlike Schroeder, was not able to gain a "regierungsfaehige Mehrheit" of votes. Do you think that might indicate something?

Well it obviously doesn't say anything about what the Swiss think, but it certainly backs up what I said about Germans. I assume you know what the Eurobarometer is?

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40861000/gif/_40861344_turkey_support_gra203.gif




http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1699088,00.html

Now back to my little German friend:

1. I imagine, that you'd be wrong. Glance above at the polling.

2. It has nothing to do with Merkel, but rather how the people themselves feel. In fact, it just shows how terrible and unrepresentative Schroeder's leadership on this issue was, since most of the people are against it.

3. It's hardly a bad thing. Good for the Germans, though unfortunatly they're not as informed about the dangers as the Austrians, who it seems have not soon enough forgotten the Gates of Vienna.Would you mind supplying some polls that we can use? If askes the blunt question "Are you in favor of Turkish EU membership?" Cabra and I would undoubtedly answer "no". There is nothing to indicate that these people are opposed or in favor of Turkey ever becoming a member. I've been searching for polls too, and I found one where a whopping 60% of Germans were of the opinion that Turkey wasn't ready for EU membership. I don't know whether there was an option to answer "Turkey should never be an EU member", but you haven't managed to provide anything of the sort to support your argument either.

Oh, and on Schroeder and Merkel... you ARE aware that Merkel, unlike Schroeder, was not able to gain a "regierungsfaehige Mehrheit" of votes. Do you think that might indicate something?Not to mention that since Schröder made it clear that the German government isn't going to oppose an EU Membership of Turkey, and Merkel is bound to that by grace of the coalition contract...:D

I understand. That doesn't mean I can't bitch, complain and protest against our President's uninformed decisions.


If you had understood, you would have realised that he was not making an uninformed decision.

Fact of the matter is that expansion has been a hugely successful and powerful foreign policy tool. Compare countries like Spain and Greece, which were dictatorships, with countries in Latin America. The EU has been much more effective in dealing with its neighbours and "bringing" freedom and democracy than the US.
Geopolitical situations between Latin-American countries and European countries are totally different, as are the relations between European countries and the relations between America and the countries of Latin-America. I don't know why you're even comparing them....


So Turkey has its issues - and that is precisely why there has to be the chance of joining in the future. The alternative is an end to friendly relationships between Turkey and the EU, the branding of the EU as a Christian club (and the implications of that for foreign policy and immigrant communities), no realistic chance of the Cyprus thing being solved, no better treatment for the Kurds and no religious freedom for Christians in Turkey.
And what I'm saying is that, obviously joining the European will be good for Turkey...as it was good for all the Eastern and Balkan countries who leech off the more powerful Western countries, but I don't think the good that it would bring Turkey outweighs the negative of simply having Turkey in the European Union. With the entrance of new nations come the breakdown of their borders. Then, as the Eastern European countries have so perfectly shown, many many people leave the country to go West to flood the other countries. People are already fed up with the amount of Eastern Europeans, Balkans and Turks in their countries....muss we make these people more angry by adding a boat load of Turks into the mess?

It's been said time and again, but I gladly repeat it :
Turkey - as it currently is, with it's human rights violations, it's attitude towards Cyprus and other issues - cannot and should not be granted EU membership.
I assume that's what those polls have been asking, as I can't see evidence to the contrary.
However, once Turkey has sorted out those issues, I (and most of the other posters in this thread as far as I can tell. I will not make assumptions on German opinion, as I've been gone for a while now and visits tend to give you a scewed image) have no objection to them joining.

You seem to be the only one who would hold a country's history against it when it comes to current politics...
It's not just the country's history, although everything you listed (plus the Armenian holocaust) is VERY important...but I'm also talking about the implications of bringing Turkey into the EU and dissolving it's borders with Europe. I'm currently looking for polls on immigration...and I promise as soon as I find some good ones, they will be posted.
Oh, and on Schroeder and Merkel... you ARE aware that Merkel, unlike Schroeder, was not able to gain a "regierungsfaehige Mehrheit" of votes. Do you think that might indicate something?
That support for her was not as clear cut and strong as with Schroeder? What does that have to do with the Turkish issue and their stances on it? She's against it and he was for it.
Not to mention that since Schröder made it clear that the German government isn't going to oppose an EU Membership of Turkey, and Merkel is bound to that by grace of the coalition contract...:D
I thought otherwise, as informed by her countless statements saying that the German government opposes Turkey's entrance to Europe?
Would you mind supplying some polls that we can use? If askes the blunt question "Are you in favor of Turkish EU membership?" Cabra and I would undoubtedly answer "no". There is nothing to indicate that these people are opposed or in favor of Turkey ever becoming a member. I've been searching for polls too, and I found one where a whopping 60% of Germans were of the opinion that Turkey wasn't ready for EU membership. I don't know whether there was an option to answer "Turkey should never be an EU member", but you haven't managed to provide anything of the sort to support your argument either.
Yes, and in my article, posted on the previous page, it said opposition in German to Turkey is 74%.

Anyway, fair enough post...and like I said to Cabra, I've continued looking for some more polls, both to your question, and to the question that deals more with immigration.

I must say that it makes me happy to see such a strong understand of the dangers of letting Turkey into the European Union, in these countries. Whether that is just temporary or permenant, I'll find out.

If you had understood, you would have realised that he was not making an uninformed decision.
Incorrect. Bush is using a Realpolitik geo-political strat that advances his agenda in the Muslim World...and in THAT sense, it's not uninformed. He IS uninformed because he has no idea about the negative outcomes of letting Turkey become part of Europe.

He IS uninformed because he has no idea about the negative outcomes of letting Turkey become part of Europe.

What are the negative outcomes for the USA if Turkey becomes part of Europe?

What are the negative outcomes for the USA if Turkey becomes part of Europe?
Our "allies" in Europe, get even more pissed off at them because we supported something that their people don't like/governments don't like, against their will. Thus we lose even more support and allies in Europe, a place where we NEED support.

Yes....I too love the way the EU grants Europeans the personal freedom to liberate themselves of the worries of governmental politics, political representation and all around political say.

I'm getting really tired of these kinds of stupid comments. People need to learn that they do, in fact, have a right to vote for the EU parliament. They are, in fact, politically represented by the EU as they get a vote. Might I also add that, without the EU, you wouldn't be granted the right to vote in the local community you happened to live in, regardless of where you are and where you are from.

Our "allies" in Europe, get even more pissed off at them because we supported something that their people don't like/governments don't like, against their will. Thus we lose even more support and allies in Europe, a place where we NEED support.

That's pretty vague and indirect. Can you give me a concrete example?

Well, Russia isn't European. It's polity owes more to traditions of Eastern absolutism than European democracy, it's culture and religion stands apart from Europe, and geographically, perhaps only 1/3 of the country could be considered "European".

That said, Russia's christianity does render it more European than Turkey can hope to be.You clarly have precious little understanding of Russian history if you can equate Russia's differences from Europe to those of the Ottoman empire.

Christian =/= European. Most European states are secular and even those that have state religions have a majority of people that are completely apathetic to religion.

In other words, you've fallen for the True Scotsman fallacy, which I cannot be bothered to link to.

Our "allies" in Europe, get even more pissed off at them because we supported something that their people don't like/governments don't like, against their will. Thus we lose even more support and allies in Europe, a place where we NEED support.

Except that you've been posted polls that do not declare whether they are stating "Should Turkey join the EU?" or "Should Turkey Ever join the EU?".

Thus meaning that Bush could in fact be spot on, if we give Turkey ten years to straighten out.

Your nationalistic jingoism and unbiased hatred towards muslims is probably doing more to hurt support than Bush ever could. In case you didn't notice, quite a lot of people hate him for invading Iraq.

Our "allies" in Europe, get even more pissed off at them because we supported something that their people don't like/governments don't like, against their will. Thus we lose even more support and allies in Europe, a place where we NEED support.
As a European, I can honestly say that neither my peers nor myself could care less about what Bush thinks about Turkish EU membership, notwithstanding whether we do or do not support Turkish EU membership.

It's not just the country's history, although everything you listed (plus the Armenian holocaust) is VERY important...but I'm also talking about the implications of bringing Turkey into the EU and dissolving it's borders with Europe. I'm currently looking for polls on immigration...and I promise as soon as I find some good ones, they will be posted.

You're too focused on history... the Armenian holocaust is part of Turkey's history, not of it's present.
And considering the attitude of some EU members regarding their own past, I personally am not going to make the official apology of the Turkish government to the Armenians a crucial factor of Turkey's chances of joining the EU. I'd appreciate if they did acknowledge it, but not everyone is as forthcoming with apologies and reparations as Germany is, nor should they have to.


That support for her was not as clear cut and strong as with Schroeder? What does that have to do with the Turkish issue and their stances on it? She's against it and he was for it.

Considering German demographics, her stance on not wanting Turkey to join the EU ever might well have cost her a few votes....


Yes, and in my article, posted on the previous page, it said opposition in German to Turkey is 74%.

Opposition to Turkey joining NOW, or Turkey joining ever?

I must say that it makes me happy to see such a strong understand of the dangers of letting Turkey into the European Union, in these countries. Whether that is just temporary or permenant, I'll find out.

Personally, I believe the chance of membership will pull Turkey forward a good bit, regarding democratic development, human rights and other issues. It is certainly more helpful than denying the country something it has after all been working towards for a good few years now. And yes, I think it's coming along well, it'll take another few years, certainly, but I'm generally feeling positive about it.

It’s hardly a bad thing. Good for the Germans, though unfortunatly they’re not as informed about the dangers as the Austrians, who it seems have not soon enough forgotten the Gates of Vienna.
‘Dangers’? Referencing a battle in the 17th century?

You seem to be, again, confusing ‘immigration of low-income labourers’ with ‘invasion of scimitar-wielding hordes’. We’re talking more opportunity for kebabs, not besiegement of Vienna.

Get a grip.

It’s not just the country’s history, although everything you listed (plus the Armenian holocaust) is VERY important...but I’m also talking about the implications of bringing Turkey into the EU and dissolving it’s borders with Europe. I’m currently looking for polls on immigration...and I promise as soon as I find some good ones, they will be posted...
‘Good ones’. Perhaps you’ve found some polls that don’t give you the answer you’re obviously looking for? You might want to take a closer look at statistics and the dangers of taking poll data as facts (http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/06/nh.poll/index.html).

I must say that it makes me happy to see such a strong understand of the dangers of letting Turkey into the European Union, in these countries. Whether that is just temporary or permenant, I’ll find out.
Again with the ‘dangers’ of ‘non-Europeans’. The ‘threat’ from immigration and Islam.

Nothing you have found shows that Europeans don’t want Turkey as a member of the EU because of the ‘danger’ of non-white/non-Christian immigration; and I seriously doubt you will ever find conclusive proof that they do.

Geopolitical situations between Latin-American countries and European countries are totally different, as are the relations between European countries and the relations between America and the countries of Latin-America. I don't know why you're even comparing them....
It's obvious, isn't it? There were commies, military dictatorships, threat of more commies, the whole thing between Greece and Turkey, and in Portugal's case another big change, namely the collapse of a colonial empire. It's hard to believe these days, but much of southern Europe wasn't much better than Latin America in the Fifties and Sixties. And that's not even mentioning the effect potential membership talks are already having on Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegowina, and even Serbia (though we'll see more on that once Kosovo goes the full monty).

Of course they're not the same, I never said they were. I said that the carrot of joining the EU has been used with huge effectiveness to direct these countries towards free democratic systems. Joining the EU was the necessary long-term goal for them, and ending the dictatorships was the necessary intermediate step.

And what I'm saying is that, obviously joining the European will be good for Turkey...as it was good for all the Eastern and Balkan countries who leech off the more powerful Western countries, but I don't think the good that it would bring Turkey outweighs the negative of simply having Turkey in the European Union.
No one's leeching off anyone. There are net payers and net receivers, and the balance shifts after a while. As the example of Ireland shows, it has enormous positive effects - not just for the receiving country, but for the EU economy as a whole.

Then, as the Eastern European countries have so perfectly shown, many many people leave the country to go West to flood the other countries.
Actually, nothing of the kind has been shown. The vast majority of Poles in the UK for example plan to go home in a few years. The movement of people depends to large degree on how well things are going in the sending country - Slowakia for example has hardly sent anyone. And that's not because it was so rich to start with, but because it has been growing quickly and successfully.

As it is, the receiving countries have benefitted a lot from the inflow of extra labour, and the sending countries have benefitted from the remittances and the relief of pressure in their own labour markets.

People are already fed up with the amount of Eastern Europeans, Balkans and Turks in their countries....muss we make these people more angry by adding a boat load of Turks into the mess?
People being angry is not a reason to do anything. The question is whether they have valid reason to be angry - and the evidence says that they really don't. It's all in their heads, and there is no right not to be offended.