NationStates Jolt Archive

How is "homage" pronounced? I've always pronounced it "oh-mazh", like a French word. Yesterday I saw a British show and they pronounced it like "ha-mij" or "a-mij".

The latter can't be true, it surely can't! I mean, English being an ugly language isn't something new to be, but "ha-mij"? Damn, that's ugly.

Americans pronounce it French (the first way, though we're more prone to making more of the 'g')...go figure. Can't speak to how Brits do it.

Depends on who is speaking. I'm used to hearing the french inflection, but I've heard it with and without an 'h' as 'HOE-muj'.

Americans pronounce it French (the first way, though we're more prone to making more of the 'g')...go figure. Can't speak to how Brits do it.

So, MW lies again? (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/homage)

in oklahoma most people say HO-maj but it's wrong, I think it's O-mazh.


*in oklahoma most people also say Foh-your for Foyer. also, wrong.

*in oklahoma most people also say Foh-your for Foyer. also, wrong.

If I heard that in real life, I'm sure I'd laugh out loud. "Fwa-yay!" people, "fwa-yay!"

I will go with the a-mij and that is my "final answer".

Either the French way or the normal way, depending on the situation. A film director does an "oh-mazh" to other directors when he rips off the style, but Mexicans "pay om-ij" to Our Lady of Guadalupe on (whatever day it is) when they go to the church.

So, MW lies again? (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/homage)

I have never heard someone say it that way. At least not here in California. America is a big place, maybe they do it that way somewhere else, but when I hear it, it's o-maj, more or less.

A-mij for me ... actually a lot like monty python does in life of Brian :p

"HOE-miJ" is how I usually pronounce it.

Either the French way or the normal way, depending on the situation. A film director does an "oh-mazh" to other directors when he rips off the style, but Mexicans "pay om-ij" to Our Lady of Guadalupe on (whatever day it is) when they go to the church.
Yeah, that last one sounds familiar now that you mention it. But I never hear anyone pronounce the H.

Can you remember the British show?

I'd say 'hom' to rhyme with Tom, though with a very soft 'h' and 'age' to be somewhere between midge and edge.

My accent used to be what's called BBC but now it's all over the place, both my accent and the BBC

"HOE-miJ" is how I usually pronounce it.

I could agree with this as well, again, my accent has deteriorated a lot so I'm unsure.

How is "homage" pronounced? I've always pronounced it "oh-mazh", like a French word. Yesterday I saw a British show and they pronounced it like "ha-mij" or "a-mij".

The latter can't be true, it surely can't! I mean, English being an ugly language isn't something new to be, but "ha-mij"? Damn, that's ugly.

Brits pronounce a lot of words differently than Americans in ways that aren't accounted for by the accent alone.

In the US simultaneous is pronounced with the first syllable rhyming with "slime." In Britain it's "sim."

Schedule. Skeju-ul vs. shedu-ul

botulism vs. steak and kidney pie

Can you remember the British show?

I really am deeply ashamed to admit this... but it was one of those celebrity gossip shows, called something like "Entertainment Now". Definitely not the type of show one'd've seen on the BBC, but nowadays who knows.

Brits pronounce a lot of words differently than Americans in ways that aren't accounted for by the accent alone.

Well, the British pronounce things correctly, so that is bound to happen.

In the US simultaneous is pronounced with the first syllable rhyming with "slime." In Britain it's "sim."

I've heard both in the UK, but I tend to go with "sim" instead of "sime".

Schedule. Skeju-ul vs. shedu-ul

As has brought SoWiBi a boundless amount of amusement, I do pronounce it "schedule" and not "skedule".

botulism vs. steak and kidney pie

I see what you did there.

I really am deeply ashamed to admit this... but it was one of those Celebrity Gossip shows, called something like "Entertainment Now". Definitely not the type of show one'd've seen on the BBC, but nowadays who knows.

Indeed - I have a long running argument with my mother, who's a linguistics expert, on pronunciation - I say it's simply a means of determining class, she says there's a right way and a wrong way, I say it's ever-changing, she says I'm uneducated.

There's a line between the purpose of pronunciation, which is clarity of communication and the adherence to pronunciation, which is, to my mind, snobbery.

"Oh-midge" is how it's usually pronounced in non-hick areas of the United States.

...I'd say 'hom' to rhyme with Tom, though with a very soft 'h' and 'age' to be somewhere between midge and edge...

That's pretty much how just about all Australians say it.

Either [hŏm-idʒ] or [ŏm-idʒ] would be correct. ([dʒ] = "j" for those unaware.) It is my understanding that pronouncing the initial [h] is more common in the UK, but I may be incorrect.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/homage

I second that MW is incorrect in having [ä]. WTF, it's not "hamage". :confused:

Indeed - I have a long running argument with my mother, who's a linguistics expert, on pronunciation - I say it's simply a means of determining class, she says there's a right way and a wrong way, I say it's ever-changing, she says I'm uneducated.

I'd say she proved your point for you. :p

Indeed - I have a long running argument with my mother, who's a linguistics expert, on pronunciation - I say it's simply a means of determining class, she says there's a right way and a wrong way, I say it's ever-changing, she says I'm uneducated.

There's a line between the purpose of pronunciation, which is clarity of communication and the adherence to pronunciation, which is, to my mind, snobbery.

I find her approach odd. I studied linguistics at uni and it was always drummed into us that there were no right or wrong ways - the role of linguists was to study the way people actually communicated, not make rules on how they should communicate.

I'd say she proved your point for you. :p

To be fair, class doesn't equal educated - we can strive to be educated despite class, it relates more to her dismissal of my opinions overall - in an entirely friendly way and one only a mother can pull off.

I find her approach odd. I studied linguistics at uni and it was always drummed into us that there were no right or wrong ways - the role of linguists was to study the way people actually communicated, not make rules on how they should communicate.

Same here, what she studies bears no relevance to her views on proper pronunciation.

I mentioned only to provide context in that we discuss language and brain function a lot, this is one strand - I should have clarified this or left it out entirely :)

So, MW lies again? (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/homage)

The dictionary can't lie, it can only observe. All I can say is that I've never observed anyone hitting the H in that word at all. I pronounce it au Francais, and besides that, I've only ever heard "AHM-idj" (sorry, I can't access IPA characters in my browser and I'm too lazy to import them). I have heard the Brits stomp on the H, though, which sullies the theory that "they pronounce things correctly", Fass, old lad. For a nation obsessed with French spellings (-our), you'd think they'd get the H outta there.

ha-mij

I have heard the Brits stomp on the H, though, which sullies the theory that "they pronounce things correctly", Fass, old lad.

It doesn't in the least - see "herb" vs. "'erb". Since the language is theirs, their pronunciation is the standard. If they choose to pronounce the "h", then it becomes correct in English.

It doesn't in the least - see "herb" vs. "'erb". Since the language is theirs, their pronunciation is the standard. If they choose to pronounce the "h", then it becomes correct in English.

Then why retain French spellings and not pronunciation? Mind you, I'm not considering that a flaw, I'm just curious. As Eddie Izzard said in San Francisco, "I say it 'herb' because there's a fucking H in it." That's all well and good, but why then is Ralph pronounced "rafe" (after all, there's a fucking L in it)? Again, it makes no matter to me, but if you're going to slap down an absolute like "it's their language", I'll feel the need to disprove it. No offense meant.

I really am deeply ashamed to admit this... but it was one of those celebrity gossip shows, called something like "Entertainment Now".
there we go then - it was probably a show aimed at and staffed by chav-like creatures. The sort who go round dropping their aitches cause they think it makes them look edjukated.

Then why retain French spellings and not pronunciation? Mind you, I'm not considering that a flaw, I'm just curious. As Eddie Izzard said in San Francisco, "I say it 'herb' because there's a fucking H in it." That's all well and good, but why then is Ralph pronounced "rafe"? Again, it makes no matter to me, but if you're going to slap down an absolute like "it's their language", I'll feel the need to disprove it. No offense meant.
The problem with English is that it's constantly-changing. I understand (and I of course could be wrong) that the reason we have silent 'h' in words like whale, when, wheat, wheel etc etc is because at one point a couple of centuries ago English did in fact pronounce the 'h' in those words. The pronunciation was similar to, but not quite the way we say 'f' nowadays (It was sort of an aspirated 'f' sound). We just got lazy over the years, gave up aspirating and just dropped the 'h' sound.
That's why, for example, there's no 'f' in the Maori alphabet but hundreds of words starting with, 'wh-'. Maori pronunciation of those words was very similar to the English pronunciation of 'wh-' words back when the missionaries first started recording them in the early 19th Century.

Then why retain French spellings and not pronunciation?

You seem to be under the impression that language is consistent and logical. Not so.

Mind you, I'm not considering that a flaw, I'm just curious. As Eddie Izzard said in San Francisco, "I say it 'herb' because there's a fucking H in it." That's all well and good, but why then is Ralph pronounced "rafe" (after all, there's a fucking L in it)?

"Ralph" was before the 20th century almost universally pronounced "raif" or "raaf" and probably so because the name is actually a contraction of Old English variants such as "Rædwulf" from the Old Norse "Rathulfr". The "l" simply became silent in the process and just indicative of etymology. Plebeian influences of the last century pushed a more "literal" pronunciation. That is the explanation I've most often heard.

It wouldn't be the first time when a pronunciation is changed because of the readings of an ignorant mass. For instance, the word "refug" in Swedish was pronounced "refysch" just like the French word that it is. When ordinary people started reading it "refug" like it is spelt, "refug" became the standard.

Again, it makes no matter to me, but if you're going to slap down an absolute like "it's their language", I'll feel the need to disprove it. No offense meant.

But it is their language and it is up to them to pronounce things the way they do.

there we go then - it was probably a show aimed at and staffed by chav-like creatures. The sort who go round dropping their aitches cause they think it makes them look edjukated.

Not so, as this was an educated celebrity that said it.

You seem to be under the impression that language is consistent and logical. Not so.



"Ralph" was before the 20th century almost universally pronounced "raif" or "raaf" and probably so because the name is actually a contraction of Old English variants such as "Rædwulf" from the Old Norse "Rathulfr". The "l" simply became silent in the process and just indicative of etymology. Plebeian influences of the last century pushed a more "literal" pronunciation. That is the explanation I've most often heard.

It wouldn't be the first time when a pronunciation is changed because of the readings of an ignorant mass. For instance, the word "refug" in Swedish was pronounced "refysch" just like the French word that it is. When ordinary people started reading it "refug" like it is spelt, "refug" became the standard.



But it is their language and it is up to them to pronounce things the way they do.

Fair enough. Then US English, as a distinct dialect, should also be allowed its idiosyncrasies.

Fair enough. Then US English, as a distinct dialect, should also be allowed its idiosyncrasies.

Oh, but it is, in the "I ignore it" sense.

it is their language and it is up to them to pronounce things the way they do.
Up to who?
Up to how a Yorkshireman would pronounce things? How about a Geordie, a Scouse, a Taff, a Cockney or a Jock?
eg:
Dialects and Accents of England (http://web.ku.edu/idea/europe/england/england.htm)

Problem with saying the way the English themselves pronounce is the (more) correct way is that within England herself, there's dozens (if not hundreds) of ways to pronounce the same words.
Simply relying on BBC-English is relying on just a very tiny minority of England-born English speakers for correct usage. Whose to say they're indeed correct?


Not so, as this was an educated celebrity that said it.
'educated celebrity'? That's an oxymoron, surely.

Oh, but it is, in the "I ignore it" sense.

Hey man, hate on America all you want, but what has Sweden given us besides hot girls that put out on the first night, Bofors guns, and the welfare state...? :rolleyes:

Hey man, hate on America all you want, but what has Sweden given us besides hot girls that put out on the first night, Bofors guns, and the welfare state...? :rolleyes:

Living up to your name and baiting Fass? *grabs popcorn*

That's pretty much how just about all Australians say it.

I'd agree with that.

Hey man, hate on America all you want, but what has Sweden given us besides hot girls that put out on the first night, Bofors guns, and the welfare state...? :rolleyes:
they gave us waffles too, didn't they?
Or was that Denmark?

I'd agree with that.
not wanting to thread-jack, but what are your thoughts about that last debacle masquerading as a test?

Living up to your name and baiting Fass? *grabs popcorn*

Hey now, I didn't say what I mentioned was bad... in fact, the former is actually very good. I am definitely taking a trip to Sweden some day... :cool:

they gave us waffles too, didn't they?
Or was that Denmark?

I think that was Belgium. :rolleyes:

Up to who?

Whom.

Up to how a Yorkshireman would pronounce things? How about a Geordie, a Scouse, a Taff, a Cockney or a Jock?
eg:
Dialects and Accents of England (http://web.ku.edu/idea/europe/england/england.htm)

Which is relevant to my discussions of a "Reichsdialect" in what sense?

Problem with saying the way the English themselves pronounce is the (more) correct way is that within England herself, there's dozens (if not hundreds) of ways to pronounce the same words.

But there is usually only one or a few standard ways.

Simply relying on BBC-English is relying on just a very tiny minority of England-born English speakers for correct usage. Whose to say they're indeed correct?

Who's, not "whose". Their standards are correct because the language is theirs. Just like Québécois or some African patois are not the standard for French, colonies where English variants are spoken are not standards for English. Tough titties for Montrealers and Washingtonians, but them's the breaks.

'educated celebrity'? That's an oxymoron, surely.

Only if "celebrity" contained the meaning that it is a form of fame devoid of merit, which it doesn't at all. At least not on this side of the pond, yet.

As has brought SoWiBi a boundless amount of amusement, I do pronounce it "schedule" and not "skedule".

Yes, yes, I love you and we all know it. Now, will you say "issue" for me?


Also, I personally am all for the French version, but my second great love, the Longman Pronunciation Dictionary, says that both the British and the USAians butcher the word and go with the first (stressed) syllable pronounced like the one in "homonym" (with the respective differences in pronouncing that syllable retained), and the second one as the one in "bridge" (sucks being untalented like me and not being able to put IPA in here).

Hey man, hate on America all you want, but what has Sweden given us besides hot girls that put out on the first night, Bofors guns, and the welfare state...? :rolleyes:

Sweet talk will get you everywhere.

I think that was Belgium. :rolleyes:

Waffles are considered to be a Greek invention from 1300s, but they can of course be traced to many places. It depends on what you deem a waffle.

I've always said it ha-mij. Though I've heard people say it all three ways.

Yes, yes, I love you and we all know it. Now, will you say "issue" for me?

"Issue" and not "ishue". Sucks that you can't hear it, no?

Also, I personally am all for the French version, but my second great love, the Longman Pronunciation Dictionary, says that both the British and the USAians butcher the word and go with the first (stressed) syllable pronounced like the one in "homonym" (with the respective differences in pronouncing that syllable retained), and the second one as the one in "bridge" (sucks being untalented like me and not being able to put IPA in here).

Gah! So it is true. Dare I refuse the standard and retain the French pronunciation despite my foreignness? Oooh, dilemmar!

"Issue" and not "ishue". Sucks that you can't hear it, no?

Don't pretend to know me so poorly as to believe that

a) I wouldn't be able to play it back as often as I wish in my memory by now

b) I wouldn't be able to play it back as often as I wish from my discreetly made recordings by now.

Gah! So it is true. Dare I refuse the standard and retain the French pronunciation despite my foreignness? Oooh, dilemmar!

Absolutely, except for that one time that you'll give the alleged 'correct' version a try when we talk next time.

Don't pretend to know me so poorly as to believe that

a) I wouldn't be able to play it back as often as I wish in my memory by now

b) I wouldn't be able to play it back as often as I wish from my discreetly made recordings by now.

They're just not quite the same thing, are they, though?

Absolutely, except for that one time that you'll give the alleged 'correct' version a try when we talk next time.

The things you imagine you can bring me to do.

Their standards are correct because the language is theirs.
Which means that someone hailing from Newcastle cannot claim to be English then, as their standard of English, at least according to you, is incorrect since they speak a decidedly different accent to what you deem 'proper' English.


Which is relevant to my discussions of a "Reichsdialect" in what sense?
In the sense that what is 'proper' English pronunciation. Blithely claiming that 'how the English say it (a word) is the correct way' is ignoring that the English themselves say it a myriad different ways to the way YOU have decided is the correct way.

not wanting to thread-jack, but what are your thoughts about that last debacle masquerading as a test?

Where do I start?

The terrible umpiring?

The bad behaviour by the Australians?

The bad behaviour by the Indians?

To be fair, class doesn't equal educated - we can strive to be educated despite class, it relates more to her dismissal of my opinions overall - in an entirely friendly way and one only a mother can pull off.

All quite true...but I still think she painted herself into a corner, if only a little bit. :p

Which means that someone hailing from Newcastle cannot claim to be English then, as their standard of English, at least according to you, is incorrect since they speak a decidedly different accent to what you deem 'proper' English.

Still not getting the concept of a "Reichsdialect"?

In the sense that what is 'proper' English pronunciation. Blithely claiming that 'how the English say it (a word) is the correct way' is ignoring that the English themselves say it a myriad different ways to the way YOU have decided is the correct way.

I guess you're still not getting the concept and ignoring the fact that in the UK there is, just like how I wrote but you so adeptly cut out as if somehow vainly thinking I'd forget what I wrote (here's a hint: I am not semi-senile like Eutrusca used to be), in fact only "a few standard ways" of pronouncing words. It's interesting also that you confuse accents with dialects.

They're just not quite the same thing, are they, though?
Not quite, this terribly funny exasperated "Geez, you annoy me!" noise you make, and your delight at my laughter are sorely missing from my repertoire but oh, so vital to the overall audio performance.

The things you imagine you can bring me to do.

..are usually the things you'll do one or two beggings away.

I will go with the a-mij and that is my "final answer".Agreed. Silent 'h', hard 'g' sound.

...are usually the things you'll do one or two beggings away.

That is because, unlike Germans, us Swedes are not a cruel people.

I'd stand at Ha-mij...
And offtopic a bit: The Minangkabau are quite bloodthirsty warmonger too (See Perang Padri/Padri War)

ha-mij

No, that's how you pronounce the word that means "presence of ham."

That is because, unlike Germans, us Swedes are not a cruel people.

That, and your accent is cuter. When was our naturalizing-SoWiBi-marriage scheduled again?

No, that's how you pronounce the word that means "presence of ham."

Not quite correct either; that's how you pronounce the sort of fury-induced rampage where you make every living being around you into ham. That, or the slightly more vegetarian alternative where you live your rampage by flinging ham at everyone and everything around you.

That, and your accent is cuter. When was our naturalizing-SoWiBi-marriage scheduled again?Why would you need to naturalize to Sweden? Surely with an EU passport, citizenship is largely irrelevent.

Why would you need to naturalize to Sweden? Surely with an EU passport, citizenship is largely irrelevent.

a) Kindly don't subvert my plan to get Fass to marry me, will you?

b) I'm not that superficial; it's not about plain material benefits like you mentioned. It's about the emotional comfort and pride of being a Swede that all my ambitions in life amount to.

How is "homage" pronounced? I've always pronounced it "oh-mazh", like a French word. Yesterday I saw a British show and they pronounced it like "ha-mij" or "a-mij".

The latter can't be true, it surely can't! I mean, English being an ugly language isn't something new to be, but "ha-mij"? Damn, that's ugly.
I don't hear that word often.... Honor or tribute seem to be used more frequently. I think you'd hear something like a-mej around here.

That, and your accent is cuter.

Only our accents?

When was our naturalizing-SoWiBi-marriage scheduled again?

Oh, 23 weeks into your pregnancy. Can't risk you having recourse under our relatively generous abortion legislation, now can I.

Only our accents?
Yes, and your larger mammals.

Oh, 23 weeks into your pregnancy. Can't risk you having recourse under our relatively generous abortion legislation, now can I.

Deal, as long as you snatch the kid away as planned the moment it's out of there and never request me to have to deal with it again.

Yes, and your larger mammals.

Mammaries, darling. Mammaries.

Deal, as long as you snatch the kid away as planned the moment it's out of there and never request me to have to deal with it again.

That's between me, you and family court.

'Homij' (first part like the name 'Tom', last part somewhere between 'ij' and 'ej') would be the standard British.

But there are huge differences between American and British, and even between different areas in Britain. One word that really annoys me in the way it's pronounced over in the US is 'premiere' ('premier'), due to the blatant ignorance of where the word comes from. However, there are lots of words that no longer retain their original pronunciations.

Mammaries, darling. Mammaries.

Elk tits? Nah, not my thing. I think.

That's between me, you and family court.

There will be no kid without a liability waiver for me from you, dear. I'm not gonna be stuck with one of those critters..

There will be no kid without a liability waiver for me from me, dear. I'm not gonna be stuck with one of those critters.."For me from me"? :confused:

Elk tits? Nah, not my thing. I think.

Their meat is more usually consumed, but I don't see why their secretions couldn't.

There will be no kid without a liability waiver for me from me, dear. I'm not gonna be stuck with one of those critters..

You can have all the waivers you want. *omits to tell that such waivers are unenforceable under Swedish law*

"For me from me"? :confused:

Oh, did I out Fass as one of my creations now? Pardon. ;P


You can have all the waivers you want. *omits to tell that such waivers are unenforceable under Swedish law*

I rely on your honour more than on Swedish law :]

I rely on your honour more than on Swedish law :]

You'll soon see how that is mighty un-Swedish of you. "Misströsta icke", as we say, there are courses on how to be Swedish. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=j5g2fg86gUw)

You'll soon see how that is mighty un-Swedish of you. "Misströsta icke", as we say, there are courses on how to be Swedish. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=j5g2fg86gUw)

Too bad I'm sitting in a lecture and can't possible watch YouTube videos right now, but I shall educate myself in due course.

How is "homage" pronounced? I've always pronounced it "oh-mazh", like a French word. Yesterday I saw a British show and they pronounced it like "ha-mij" or "a-mij".

The latter can't be true, it surely can't! I mean, English being an ugly language isn't something new to be, but "ha-mij"? Damn, that's ugly.the way I've heard it, when it's preceded by "a/an" it's "oh-mazh" - but when you're "paying" or "giving" homage, it's "a-mij", often in the US with the H at the beginning, depending on what part of the country you're in. I've never once heard someone "pay oh-mazh", and never heard anyone reference "an a-mij".

One word that really annoys me in the way it's pronounced over in the US is 'premiere' ('premier'), due to the blatant ignorance of where the word comes from. However, there are lots of words that no longer retain their original pronunciations.I might also point out that in many instances the rural US retains archaic pronunciations that are truer to the original usage of words than are used in standard US or UK english anymore. the appalachian states and southern dialects often have grammatical goodies shakespeare would've been familiar with, which english teachers none the less beat out of their students...

as you point out, there are lots of words that no longer retain their original pronunciations. this is why we are not speaking any of the dozens of languages that "blatant ignorance" has reduced to mere modern english. it's utterly ridiculous to insist on there being one proper way to speak. there are certainly prestige dialects, but it's an elitist fiction that these are any more "correct" than any other form. lest ye speak about your housen and shoen (like you speak about your "children" and not your "childs") you're "blatantly ignorant" of the grammatical forms that "pure" english of about 400 years ago used. standard modern english exists only because older forms were ignored. insisting there is a correct way to say anything is based on an arbitrary line, drawn almost exclusively to reinforce regional supremacy and class hierarchy.

don't mind me, I'm one of those people who insists african american vernacular english is a dialect which retains west african grammatical forms and that hatian creole is a language, not just stupid black people trying to speak english and french. insisting on the primacy of prestige dialects and "pure" word-forms is a form of cultural oppression. :p labeling one dialect a corruption of the other is the same sort of thinking that has one permutation of religious expression labeled heresy and the other orthodoxy. "ya'll" (southern dialect you-plural) is "not a word" officially, but it fills in a gap left when "you", the former plural form, became singular due to the plurality of dignity making the singular form insulting..."dost thou 'thou' me?!?" - dost thou call singular individuals "you" because thou art blatantly ignorant of the original grammatical function of the word "you"? -_- I should refuse to speak to you in anything but classical latin...

I might also point out that in many instances the rural US retains archaic pronunciations that are truer to the original usage of words than are used in standard US or UK english anymore. the appalachian states and southern dialects often have grammatical goodies shakespeare would've been familiar with, which english teachers none the less beat out of their students...

as you point out, there are lots of words that no longer retain their original pronunciations. this is why we are not speaking any of the dozens of languages that "blatant ignorance" has reduced to mere modern english. it's utterly ridiculous to insist on there being one proper way to speak. there are certainly prestige dialects, but it's an elitist fiction that these are any more "correct" than any other form. lest ye speak about your housen and shoen (like you speak about your "children" and not your "childs") you're "blatantly ignorant" of the grammatical forms that "pure" english of about 400 years ago used. standard modern english exists only because older forms were ignored. insisting there is a correct way to say anything is based on an arbitrary line, drawn almost exclusively to reinforce regional supremacy and class hierarchy.

don't mind me, I'm one of those people who insists african american vernacular english is a dialect which retains west african grammatical forms and that hatian creole is a language, not just stupid black people trying to speak english and french. insisting on the primacy of prestige dialects and "pure" word-forms is a form of cultural oppression. :p labeling one dialect a corruption of the other is the same sort of thinking that has one permutation of religious expression labeled heresy and the other orthodoxy. "ya'll" (southern dialect you-plural) is "not a word" officially, but it fills in a gap left when "you", the former plural form, became singular due to the plurality of dignity making the singular form insulting..."dost thou 'thou' me?!?" - dost thou call singular individuals "you" because thou art blatantly ignorant of the original grammatical function of the word "you"? -_- I should refuse to speak to you in anything but classical latin...

Nice rant :)

Anyway, I do agree with you. The thing with 'premiere' is just a pet annoyance and is quite irrational and inconsistent.

How is "homage" pronounced? I've always pronounced it "oh-mazh", like a French word. Yesterday I saw a British show and they pronounced it like "ha-mij" or "a-mij".
The word is pronounced "oh-mazh". It's got to be one of the most mispronounced words in modern English.

That and the misuse of 'literally' by pretty much every broadcaster, newspaper, etc., irks me.

The word is pronounced "oh-mazh". It's got to be one of the most mispronounced words in modern English.

That and the misuse of 'literally' by pretty much every broadcaster, newspaper, etc., irks me.

I really dislike hearing people say "It was like they literally..........(insert action)..........."

I've heard all three pronounciations, depending on how the word is used.

Example: a movie can be an homage (oh-mazh), but people give homage (ha-mij).

In the South (US) we say "ah-mitj".

Nice rant :)

Anyway, I do agree with you. The thing with 'premiere' is just a pet annoyance and is quite irrational and inconsistent.haha, we all have them. I actually tend to add the u in words from time to time ("labour") which my teachers hate...my brother pointed out that the british pronunciations of "buffet" and "garage" are not particularly faithful to the french originals either...lol - do they actually read "buffet" phonetically, or was he lying to me? *googles it* eh, now a website is telling me it's "buff-ay" but "fillet" is "fill-it". fill-it mignon? *Shrug* haha

Hom-ij.

There you go.

haha, we all have them. I actually tend to add the u in words from time to time ("labour") which my teachers hate...my brother pointed out that the british pronunciations of "buffet" and "garage" are not particularly faithful to the french originals either...lol - do they actually read "buffet" phonetically, or was he lying to me? *googles it* eh, now a website is telling me it's "buff-ay" but "fillet" is "fill-it". fill-it mignon? *Shrug* haha

Personally i'd say buff-ay and fill-ay

its none of the poll options from what I can tell its HOMIDGE

Depends on who is speaking. I'm used to hearing the french inflection, but I've heard it with and without an 'h' as 'HOE-muj'.

Mmm. I tend to pronounce it in the french way, but with an aspirated h.

Don't know whether this is actually the case, but in my mind the two different pronunciations have two different meanings and have entered english at two separate points in time.

On the one hand you have the full French pronunciation with the silent 'h' and the long 'a', meaning a respectful reference to an earlier piece of work.

On the other hand you have homage with the 'h' pronounced fully and the short 'a', which has an older feel to it, probably brought over with the Normans meaning sort of obeisance to your lord or master.

How is "homage" pronounced? I've always pronounced it "oh-mazh", like a French word. Yesterday I saw a British show and they pronounced it like "ha-mij" or "a-mij".

The latter can't be true, it surely can't! I mean, English being an ugly language isn't something new to be, but "ha-mij"? Damn, that's ugly.

I'm used to hearing it pronounced "HA-mij" with the "o" having an "ah" sound, like the "a" in "father".

The latter can't be true, it surely can't! I mean, English being an ugly language isn't something new to be, but "ha-mij"? Damn, that's ugly.

Aren't you Swedish, Fass? The language of the drowning German?

I have always pronounced it "ha-mij," but I believe the "real" way is "a-mij," as you say. However, all the dictionaries I looked in had both, so it probably doesn't matter.

I've never heard it pronounced as anything other than "HA-mijj".

However, it may not be correct to pronounce it as anything else, simply because the modern French word may have changed and it would be nothing more than an anachronism to attempt to use another pronunciation. This is the case with more than a few English words taken from other languages, especially ones borrowed from earlier forms of said languages.

I have no idea, though.

The American Heritage Dictionary, 2nd College ed. 1976

hom*age (hom'ij, om'-)

No variations noted, British or otherwise.

No, that's how you pronounce the word that means "presence of ham."
I mean the more o sounding a as in ha (think Stewie Griffin), not ham or hat.

haha, we all have them. I actually tend to add the u in words from time to time ("labour") which my teachers hate...my brother pointed out that the british pronunciations of "buffet" and "garage" are not particularly faithful to the french originals either...lol - do they actually read "buffet" phonetically, or was he lying to me? *googles it* eh, now a website is telling me it's "buff-ay" but "fillet" is "fill-it". fill-it mignon? *Shrug* haha
Oooooh, garage. Well la-de-da Mr French. Call it a car-hole like a real man.

I've always said "A-mij."

Wayull, Ah'l hav sum uv thet thar FILL-let MIG-non an' sum uv thet fancy graype joose.

I've always said "A-mij."

So, how do pronounce the first syllable in Condoleezza Rice - Carn..?

Or from - frarm?

Boston - Barst..?

Bomb - barm?

Geelong - Geelarng?

You Americans are weird.

So, how do pronounce the first syllable in Condoleezza Rice - Carn..?

Or from - frarm?

Boston - Barst..?

Bomb - barm?

Geelong - Geelarng?

You Americans are weird.Where are you getting those 'R's from?
And what kind of a word is geelong?

And what kind of a word is geelong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geelong ? Alternatively, it might denote an extraordinarily well-endowed man, but as a non-native speaker, one can never be sure.
P.S. What the hell kind of occupation is "grocery"?

hah-maajzh, or home-maajzh, even home-idge (i like home-idge, its easy to say and it feels "homey"). at least that's how i do. although i suppose its supposed to be Oh-maajzh.

=^^=
.../\...

Indeed - I have a long running argument with my mother, who's a linguistics expert, on pronunciation - I say it's simply a means of determining class, she says there's a right way and a wrong way, I say it's ever-changing, she says I'm uneducated.

There's a line between the purpose of pronunciation, which is clarity of communication and the adherence to pronunciation, which is, to my mind, snobbery.

I'd say that you are both right. Language changes and evolves, but the writtne form must have rules, or things get silly.

BTW Homage as we Brits pronounce it would be more like Hom(rhyming with tom) Marge(As in Homer Simpsons wife)

Indeed - I have a long running argument with my mother, who's a linguistics expert, on pronunciation - I say it's simply a means of determining class, she says there's a right way and a wrong way, I say it's ever-changing, she says I'm uneducated.

There's a line between the purpose of pronunciation, which is clarity of communication and the adherence to pronunciation, which is, to my mind, snobbery.

Aren't shibboleths great :D

Wayull, Ah'l hav sum uv thet thar FILL-let MIG-non an' sum uv thet fancy graype joose.

LMAO :D

Jeet yet?
No, jew?
Yoant to?
Yeah, 'sgo.

Where are you getting those 'R's from?
And what kind of a word is geelong?

I've only just figured out the basis of our misunderstanding here.

Australians (of whom I am one) don't pronounce the letter "r" when it follows a vowel. From my experience most Americans and Canadians do (and Irish people).

For example, an Australian would pronounce the word "floor" identically to the way they would pronounce "flaw".

So, to me as an Australian "harmij" would be just as useful as "hahmij" to describe the way some Americans say homage. But not to you obviously.

So, to be clear I should have suggested:

frahm
Bahst...
bahm
Geelahng

I suppose if I had have used IPA characters there mightn't have been any confusion.

BTW, Geelong is a city in Australia as illustrated by a previous post.

Don't know whether this is actually the case, but in my mind the two different pronunciations have two different meanings and have entered english at two separate points in time.

On the one hand you have the full French pronunciation with the silent 'h' and the long 'a', meaning a respectful reference to an earlier piece of work.

On the other hand you have homage with the 'h' pronounced fully and the short 'a', which has an older feel to it, probably brought over with the Normans meaning sort of obeisance to your lord or master.
I have never heard that explanation, but that is how I use the word.

I might pay ha-mij to the people who made what I'm doing possible, but what I'm doing is writing a song as an o-mazh to one they wrote.