NationStates Jolt Archive

There is one thing you don't do - invade Russia in winter.

You are in Napoléon's shoes. It is 1812, pre-Invasion of Russia. You have your problems with Spain and England. Russia is mobilizing, though the possibility of war is unclear. How do you act as Emperor of France? Differently than Nappy?

Create a bulwark of defences and clever treaties to hold off the Russians, then swing the greater proportion of your forces to deal with England and Spain, as it would cost the Russians alot of money and resources to charge into France.
Gain allies from other nations, e.g. try to get the Scots and Irish on your side to irritate the English.

There is one thing you don't do - invade Russia in winter.

Well, of course. I obviously picked his greatest mistake for this juncture.

Take the money and run.

id make peace with russia so that i could consolidate my rule of the rest of europe. (i know squat about the issues that would be invovled in making peace with russia) there is no sense trying to rule the whole damned world and some pieces (like russia) really arent worth having.

and to defend napoleon, he knew that its cold in russia in the winter and he had a plan for how he and his army were going to pass the winter. it was called MOSCOW. how was he to know that the russians were crazy enough to burn it to the ground leaving him with no place to stay in the coldest winter ever?

its not the winter that makes invading russia a mistake, its the freaking russians who wont take "you lose" for an answer.

I ask for more Chocolate,Vanillia and Strawberry stripped ice cream.

I'm in Napoleon's shoes? Wouldn't that be terribly uncomfortable? He was a tiny little man and I wear size 16s. I can't imagine that'd work out well, unless he had huge clown feet.

They burned it to the ground? wow, that's pretty clever of them, reminds me a bit of "bite your own nose off to spite your face", but this seemed to work.
But to burn your capital city? They must have been desperate.

They've always been fond of Scorched Earth tactics as I understand it.

id make peace with russia so that i could consolidate my rule of the rest of europe. (i know squat about the issues that would be invovled in making peace with russia) there is no sense trying to rule the whole damned world and some pieces (like russia) really arent worth having.

and to defend napoleon, he knew that its cold in russia in the winter and he had a plan for how he and his army were going to pass the winter. it was called MOSCOW. how was he to know that the russians were crazy enough to burn it to the ground leaving him with no place to stay in the coldest winter ever?

its not the winter that makes invading russia a mistake, its the freaking russians who wont take "you lose" for an answer.

They burned it to the ground? wow, that's pretty clever of them, reminds me a bit of "bite your own nose off to spite your face", but this seemed to work.
But to burn your capital city? They must have been desperate.

They burned it to the ground? wow, that's pretty clever of them, reminds me a bit of "bite your own nose off to spite your face", but this seemed to work.
But to burn your capital city? They must have been desperate.

They were.

They burned it to the ground? wow, that's pretty clever of them, reminds me a bit of "bite your own nose off to spite your face", but this seemed to work.
But to burn your capital city? They must have been desperate.

they had lost. they grabbed victory out of the jaws of defeat. so they burned down one of the most beautiful cities of the world. so bunches of russians must also have frozen to death that year.

they defeated napoleon. he started out with half a million troops and ended with a handful (i dont remember the real numbers but his losses were almost all of his army)

i dont think the general who ordered it had the permission of the czar. he just did it.

You are in Napoléon's shoes. It is 1812, pre-Invasion of Russia. You have problems your problems with Spain and England. Russia is mobilizing, though the possibility of war is unclear. How do you act as Emperor of France? Differently than Nappy?

Send all my forces to the New World, back Britain in the War of 1812, and then settle down to live out the rest of my life in Canada.

I would rule that all of my subjects were to be amputated at the knee and wear shoes on their kneecaps.

Reatret from Spain and set up defenses on the pyranese and the coast. Then crush what's left of the Prussians and Austrians and ally with the Swedish and Ottomans then Have the Swedes attack and send in your men and the Ottomans in March.

I'd form a very cunning plan to swipe all the chocolate cake from the mental hospital food stores and possibly form an alliance with the man who thinks hes shaft

failing that seize the Baltic and dare the English swine to follow me!

I'm in Napoleon's shoes? Wouldn't that be terribly uncomfortable? He was a tiny little man and I wear size 16s. I can't imagine that'd work out well, unless he had huge clown feet.

:eek: *tries to run but is tripped up*

Since I want Britain to win this one, I sell all of the French colonies to King George for 3 shillings apeice, and then commit suicide.

they defeated napoleon. he started out with half a million troops and ended with a handful (i dont remember the real numbers but his losses were almost all of his army)

Roughly 10,000 of Bonaparte's men survived Russia. About 600,000 began the invasion.

Roughly 10,000 of Bonaparte's men survived Russia. About 600,000 began the invasion.

*shudder*

you wouldnt get that kind of a victory on the battlefield.

how much longer did napoleon last before he was defeated and sent to....elba?

Since I want Britain to win this one, I sell all of the French colonies to King George for 3 shillings apeice, and then commit suicide.

Here here! You're far too merciful. I say, each colony for half a shilling a piece, dance around naked in trafalgar square saying the french are a bunch of pompous frogs, and THEN commit suicide.

*shudder*

you wouldnt get that kind of a victory on the battlefield.

how much longer did napoleon last before he was defeated and sent to....elba?
A couple of years.

And then after Elba he got sent to an even more remote island.

Since I want Britain to win this one, I sell all of the French colonies to King George for 3 shillings apeice, and then commit suicide.

Here here! You're far too merciful. I say, each colony for half a shilling a piece, dance around naked in trafalgar square saying the french are a bunch of pompous frogs, and THEN commit suicide.

am I the only one who likes French whores:confused:

Here here! You're far too merciful. I say, each colony for half a shilling a piece, dance around naked in trafalgar square saying the french are a bunch of pompous frogs, and THEN commit suicide.
I wouldn't want to inflict Napoléon's nakedness on the good and retiring people of Britain.

am I the only one who likes French whores:confused:
Judging from the size and prosperity of the Paris red light district, I would guess not :p

I'd try and redo the marketing for my Empire to make it look like the dreamland for every liberal and civil rights activist around, in an attempt to hold down nationalism in Germany and Spain.

If there is a deal to be made with the Spanish guerillas, I'd do it, otherwise there's nothing for it but to tough it out. Leaving Spain would just give the Brits a base from which to attack.

I'd be defensive against Russia. If they try to attack, we can have a battle on less hostile territory somewhere in Poland, which I would in all likelihood win convincingly. The same goes for any attempts by Prussia and Austria to raise their heads...might get tricky though if they all do it at once.

Unfortunately I don't see a way to defeat Britain, so I guess I'd use my knowledge of economics to deal with the blockade as well as possible and live out the rest of my days, waiting for the British to run out of patience and make peace.

There is one thing you don't do - invade Russia in winter.

Good thing that Hitler had history books burned, unfortunate for him. Made the same mistake.

Good thing that Hitler had history books burned, unfortunate for him. Made the same mistake.
Actually, he invaded in summer. Just a little too late in summer...and then it was the autumn rains which really did the damage, because it slowed down the troops to the point where they couldn't reach the main target (Moscow) and at least somewhat defendable positions before the cold got really bad.

Besides, the Germans had the, understandable, idea that in the age of the tank, plane and motorised infantry, the weather and the distance wouldn't be as big a deal as they were in Napoleon's time.

I thought it was because Hitler wanted to jibe at Stalin personally and take Stalingrad, and sent more troops there instead of marching into Moscow? When he thought he'd get an easy win in Stalingrad, he was wrong.
Moscow was 1941/42, whereas Stalingrad was 1942/43 ;)

No, my cat is Napoléon.

Actually, he invaded in summer. Just a little too late in summer...and then it was the autumn rains which really did the damage, because it slowed down the troops to the point where they couldn't reach the main target (Moscow) and at least somewhat defendable positions before the cold got really bad.

Besides, the Germans had the, understandable, idea that in the age of the tank, plane and motorised infantry, the weather and the distance wouldn't be as big a deal as they were in Napoleon's time.

I thought it was because Hitler wanted to jibe at Stalin personally and take Stalingrad, and sent more troops there instead of marching into Moscow? When he thought he'd get an easy win in Stalingrad, he was wrong.

am I the only one who likes French whores:confused:

Now you must remember that Bonaparte was Italian.

Moscow was 1941/42, whereas Stalingrad was 1942/43 ;)

which one hurt hitler more?

which one hurt hitler more?

I want to say Stalingrad, but I can't be sure.

Now you must remember that Bonaparte was Italian.

Oh! I wondered how the French managed such success! :p

which one hurt hitler more?
Hard to say.

Moscow was a huge defeat for the Germans, but the Germans went on to conquer a massive area of Russia in 1942 pretty much regardless. Still, one of the first major defeats for the Germans in the war (apart from the Battle of Britain, huzzah huzzah).

Stalingrad was basically a complete waste of the entire Sixth Army, and marked the beginning of the end, although it was Kursk that really sealed the deal for the Germans in that respect.

Which one hurt Hitler more? Probably Moscow.

Which one hurt Germany more? Doubtless Stalingrad.

Oh! I wondered how the French managed such success! :p
To be fair, Italy was basically the France of the Axis in World War II.

1939 - "Errr... let's just leave it for now"
1940 - "Wahey, 3 French villages are ours!"
1941 - "Erk. Maybe attacking the British in Africa was a poor idea."
1942 - "Yeah, seriously, it was."
1943 - *collapse*
RSI, 1944/45 - "The pain, the pain of it all :("

I want to say Stalingrad, but I can't be sure.
Even if they had taken and held Stalingrad, they were still literally thousands of km from their actual target, which was Baku. The Soviets would have retreated, regrouped and taken advantage of the super-thin German supply lines, which by that time were getting pwned by partisans.

If they had taken Moscow right in the first push in 1941, that still wouldn't necessarily have won the war. I'm of the opinion that this may have caused some sort of political collapse which would have made it extremely hard for the Red Army to counter-attack, but that's perhaps a bit of a stretch. Still, Moscow was the first really major battle the Germans actually lost, and the first time a country repelled a full German attack. That gave the Allies hope that the USSR was actually worth throwing their entire weight behind. And that's not to mention the ridiculously large, and important, losses the Germans suffered.

. Still, Moscow was the first really major battle the Germans actually lost, and the first time a country repelled a full German attack.
As an Englander Schweinhund Tommy, I'd have to dispute this.

Even if they had taken and held Stalingrad, they were still literally thousands of km from their actual target, which was Baku. The Soviets would have retreated, regrouped and taken advantage of the super-thin German supply lines, which by that time were getting pwned by partisans.

If they had taken Moscow right in the first push in 1941, that still wouldn't necessarily have won the war. I'm of the opinion that this may have caused some sort of political collapse which would have made it extremely hard for the Red Army to counter-attack, but that's perhaps a bit of a stretch. Still, Moscow was the first really major battle the Germans actually lost, and the first time a country repelled a full German attack. That gave the Allies hope that the USSR was actually worth throwing their entire weight behind. And that's not to mention the ridiculously large, and important, losses the Germans suffered.

Hence the "I can't be sure" :p Much less familiar with the battles around Moscow than the Battle of Stalingrad.

To be fair, Italy was basically the France of the Axis in World War II.

1939 - "Errr... let's just leave it for now"
1940 - "Wahey, 3 French villages are ours!"
1941 - "Erk. Maybe attacking the British in Africa was a poor idea."
1942 - "Yeah, seriously, it was."
1943 - *collapse*
RSI, 1944/45 - "The pain, the pain of it all :("

True, true.

To be fair, Italy was basically the France of the Axis in World War II.

1939 - "Errr... let's just leave it for now"
1940 - "Wahey, 3 French villages are ours!"
1941 - "Erk. Maybe attacking the British in Africa was a poor idea."
1942 - "Yeah, seriously, it was."
1943 - *collapse*
RSI, 1944/45 - "The pain, the pain of it all :("

You dawe teww us that we are poony?
http://picnic.ciao.com/uk/9034865.jpg

Hmm, let's make it "the first major battle the Wehrmacht actually lost".
Agreed. The Luftwaffe were another matter.

As an Englander Schweinhund Tommy, I'd have to dispute this.
Hmm, let's make it "the first major battle the Wehrmacht actually lost".

YOU are Napoléon

No, the men in white coats said it was just a complex.

No, the men in white coats said it was just a complex.

:D:D

You are in Napoléon's shoes. It is 1812, pre-Invasion of Russia. You have your problems with Spain and England. Russia is mobilizing, though the possibility of war is unclear. How do you act as Emperor of France? Differently than Nappy?

In Soviet France, Napoléon is YOU! :D

In Soviet France, Napoléon is YOU! :D

even more:D:D

We just finished Napoleon in my AP European Class, and here are two things I would have done.

1.End the Continental System: It was a flop for the most part. Britain still had complete control of the seas (Battle of Trafalgar* anyone?), and so Napoleon really couldn't enforce it. Next, Britain could trade with more than just Europe.Third, people on the continent would smuggle to trade with Britain, which is still under the not able to enforce thing. Finally, the system hurt the economy of, guess, what, Russia. This led to the withdrawl of Russia from the system, and Napoleon's subsequent invasion of it.

1.5.Modify the System: Another option would be to modify the System. The system benefited France more than anyone, so making it a free-trade area would have helped the other countries and keep there loyalties.

2.Pull out of Spain: Guerrila warfare, the bane of all armies. For the most part the conquest was really difficult to maintain. More trouble than it was worth really. Then, use these forces to help buffer the defenses of France.

I would try and get tall.

Like, Shaq tall.

Lets see. In 1812 Napoleon was at war with Britain and Austria. He was occupying Spain. Russia was gearing up for war.

What was his situation with Italy?
What were his relations with the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway?
Was he at war with the Prussians at this time?

If I were Napoleon, I'd do everything I could to try and stall the Russians for at least 2-3 years. I would also send overtures to the Scandinavian countries to try and tangle with Austrians, possibly with help from the Prussians (if possible?). Then I'd set my sights on Britain.

id make peace with russia so that i could consolidate my rule of the rest of europe. (i know squat about the issues that would be invovled in making peace with russia) there is no sense trying to rule the whole damned world and some pieces (like russia) really arent worth having.
giving them Poland would have been a good start

and to defend napoleon, he knew that its cold in russia in the winter and he had a plan for how he and his army were going to pass the winter. it was called MOSCOW. how was he to know that the russians were crazy enough to burn it to the ground leaving him with no place to stay in the coldest winter ever?
You plan for the worst and hope for the best, that's how
its not the winter that makes invading russia a mistake, its the freaking russians who wont take "you lose" for an answer.
Well, they have a good reason for not wishing to give up to invaders
(The Mongols)

I would try and get tall.

Napolean wasn't short

Surrender of course. I have no chance of winning against Richard Sharpe and the 95th Rifles.

Abdicate.

Napolean wasn't short

Oh, I know. He was actually taller than the average Frenchman at the time. I would just want to get HUGE. For no particular reason, really.

You are in Napoléon's shoes. It is 1812, pre-Invasion of Russia. You have your problems with Spain and England. Russia is mobilizing, though the possibility of war is unclear. How do you act as Emperor of France? Differently than Nappy?

No, I am NOT this "Napoléon". I am General Zod, your rightful ruler! WHO IS this "Napoléon"? Come to me, Napoléon, if you dare! I defy you! Come! Come and kneel before Zod!...ZOD!

Napolean wasn't short

5' 1' or 5' 3". The sources that say he was taller are screwed-up because they are in the pre-metric French system.

No, I am NOT this "Napoléon". I am General Zod, your rightful ruler! WHO IS this "Napoléon"? Come to me, Napoléon, if you dare! I defy you! Come! Come and kneel before Zod!...ZOD!

Psychonauts FTW.

No, I am NOT this "Napoléon". I am General Zod, your rightful ruler! WHO IS this "Napoléon"? Come to me, Napoléon, if you dare! I defy you! Come! Come and kneel before Zod!...ZOD!

http://www.marybeale.com/journal/archives/napoleon.jpg

Concentrate on the important things in life...

Napoleon - If this pastry is to bear my name, it must be richer! More cream. My spies tell me that my illustrious British enemy is working on a new meat recipe, which he plans to call Beef Wellington. We must develop the Napoleon before he develops Beef Wellington. The future of Europe hangs in the balance!

From one of the few Woody Allen films I found laughter funny - Love and Death.

http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/graphics/poster_OrigMinard.gif
The greatest graph in history, illustrating Napoleon's march to Russia.

http://www.marybeale.com/journal/archives/napoleon.jpg

What is your point in putting up that picture? :confused:

Psychonauts FTW.

What are these "psychonauts" you speak of?

I'll invade Russia all the same, but I'll leave Moscow a month earlier.

There is one thing you don't do - invade Russia in winter.

Hitler did, and ironically on the same date of the year.

Form an alliance with the russians -- they get scandinavia, I get the rest of europe.

I blame all my problems on Snowball!

I...I...am? This is quite a development, I never knew I was a dead megalomaniac.

I think I would still have been forced into a war with Russia. By 1812 it was too late to really make a U-turn. But I would make big changes to the invasion.

My strategy would have been re-oriented on St.Petersburg, rather than Moscow, but this would be less clear in my initial attack which would, rather than forcing the Russian First Army to give battle, adandoning that plan, and trying to encircle the Second Army, would've been all about second army right from the start. MacDonald and Oudinot still head for Riga in Latvia, with St.Petersburg the final objective. But the Guard, Davout, and Ney don't make a full attack on the Russian First Army under my command. Instead Davout takes charge and they merely move south-east, driving a wedge between First and Second armies. If First Army turns on either Oudinot or Davout the other can strike him in the back, so their best plan is to withdraw east wards towards Moscow, which is just what I intend.

Against Second Army I throw Reynier, Jerome, and Poniatowski, with Eugene and St.Cyr in a left look to the north. Murat's cavalry complete the trap to the south, heading the Second Army off the the north-east, where Eugene and St.Cyr block the crossings of the Neman.

I leave Scwarzenberg's Austrians in the south to stare down the small Russian Third Army, but I hope to be able to bully Austria into giving me more troops, especially when they see I'm winning.

If all goes as planned, I can encircle and destroy Second Army and force First Army back to Minsk. Then I dissolve Murat's cavalry corp, distributing them among the infantry, and reform for the next phase.

I send three or so corps to hover menacingly west of First Army, pinning them while I make my advance on St.Petersburg. Moscow is irrelevant for now: St.Petersburg is Russia's administrative capital and I will throw them into disarray by taking it. I also hope to inspire the Swedes to invade Finland at this point by promising they can still have Norway, promised to them by the Russians.

At this point, as winter sets in and I settle down in St.Petersburg with my supplies coming secure through Finland and the Baltics, I give Russia one chance to negotiate. If they refuse, phase two commences.

I proclaim an independant Poland with its pre-partition borders and invest serious resources in begining an armed insurrection in the Russian rear. I leave two or three corps with the Swedes in the north and begin a southern swing into Belarus as soon as possible into Belarus. I hope Austria, seeing me winning, have commited fully to the war and Scwarzenberg can now force Third Army back.

The purpose of these manouvres is to force First Army to withdraw on Moscow or be encircled and destroyed. If the latter, I then march on Moscow and occupy it. If the former I again halt the campaign and offer the Russians negotiations.

If they again refuse, 1814's campaign will involve courting the Turks, getting Austria behind me, and launching a major thrust south of Moscow, on a Kaluga-Tula axis. If this goes well, I may try and finally encircle First Army. If less well I can settle for setting up an administration in Ukraine.

What peace would I impose? That depends.

If the Russians negotaite in 1812, I push for handing Sweden to Finland, incorporation of small areas of Old Poland (those actually speaking Polish) into my Grand Duchy of Warsaw, and maybe some scraps for Austria and Prussia. We agree to co-ordinate a future campaign in which, having subdued or bribed the Turks and the Persians, we cross the Indus and begin making alliances with the the powers of the Northwest frontier to expel the Brits from India.

If they only negotiate in 1813, all Old Poland is released, Finland to Sweden, territories in the Baltic states to me, major reperations, joint Indian campaign.

And if in 1814, major sessions in the Caucasus and Ukraine to Turkey, large reparations, and an occupation, all on to of everything else. They participate in the Indian campaign without any hope of a reward.

Having beaten Russia I head for Spain with a vast army. The guerillas are an annoyance, but nothing more unless aided by a serious field army. With superior numbers I intend to simply drive Wellington back and invade and destroy Portugal, forcing the Brits to withdraw. This leave the guerillas on their own, so I'll set up a parliament and all sorts of nice things for Spain, and grant independance to Catalunya, Basque country, Galicia, Adalucia and so on, fostering a seperate indentity with me as "liberator" to encircle Castillian Spain.

And then... into the East!

With India in my hands, with the USA occupying them in North America, and without continental allies, the British are offered a generous peace:

All former french colonies are returned to my hands. Britain recognises the de-facto situation in Europe an India. In exchange I mediate with America.

Then, I begin fitting out a new great espedition for the conquest of the rebellious republics in Latin America. What next? Who knows.

Concentrate on the important things in life...



From one of the few Woody Allen films I found laughter funny - Love and Death.

"Napoleon? Who's he to have a cake? He was a ruthless war monger. Might as well get Mengele."

snip*

That is a remarkable strategy, especially in the beginning. Have you ever played this (http://www.gmtgames.com/p-29-the-napoleonic-wars.aspx)?

What is your point in putting up that picture? :confused:

To awe Zod the puny. :D

Now you must remember that Bonaparte was Italian.

No, he wasn't. He was Corsican.

5' 1' or 5' 3". The sources that say he was taller are screwed-up because they are in the pre-metric French system.

nope, wrong.
http://www.napoleon.org/en/essential_napoleon/faq/index.asp#ancre54

Before beginning his autopsy on the body of Napoleon, Antommarchi measured it. It came to 1.686 metres (see the Memoirs of Marchand).

For those of you unfamiliar with the metric system 1.686 meters is 5' 6⅜".

Form an alliance with the russians -- they get scandinavia, I get the rest of europe.

Wouldn't happen, the czar (can't remember the name off the top of my head) was opposed to Napolean because he wasn't royalty.

I've been wondering for a while now, which has won more wars, the Russians, or Russia? :D

Cocerning Spain: Begin too consolidate an expeditionary force to retake the Penninsula. Re-route would be- Russian campaign funds.

Concerning England: Reinforce ports and reinforce the navy with manpower and financial support. Try and break blockade eventually.

Concerning America: Sell the Louisianna territories for no less than 40 million.

Concerning the german states: Begin a reuction in French occupation forces, while leaving recruitmant posts in abbundance. German troops will be utilized for an eastern defensive line against a possible Russian/Austrain advance.

Concerning Austria: Same as German states strategy, using the alps as a warning sector.

Concerning Russia: Prepare a strong eastern line of forts and strongpoints, along with some fresh, divisions of recruits.

Cocerning Spain: Begin too consolidate an expeditionary force to retake the Penninsula. Re-route would be- Russian campaign funds.
So we get to see Napoleon vs. Wellington a couple of years before that happened in RL history? Interesting...

Concerning England: Reinforce ports and reinforce the navy with manpower and financial support. Try and break blockade eventually.
Wasn't technically feasible within the time available: France just didn't have enough of the necessary dockyard infrastructure in place, or enough trained seamen.

Concerning America: Sell the Louisianna territories for no less than 40 million.
It had already been sold, at the lower price, sveral years earlier...

Concerning the german states: Begin a reuction in French occupation forces, while leaving recruitmant posts in abbundance. German troops will be utilized for an eastern defensive line against a possible Russian/Austrain advance.
German states rebel, led by Prussia, and side with the advancing Russian/Austrian/Swedish forces...

Concerning Austria: Same as German states strategy, using the alps as a warning sector.
Might work.

Concerning Russia: Prepare a strong eastern line of forts and strongpoints, along with some fresh, divisions of recruits.
Along what line? The Rhine, maybe? Might work, but I think that he was pretty much scraping the bottom of the barrel by then as far as finding fresh recruits was concerned.

i would have supported bonny prince charliey's war for independence as they were expecting him to. if i've got the right nepolion. there WAS a first and third, i do know that much, and i'm not sure which was the one who invaded russia and which was the one exiled to wherever it was or if they were the same or the two different ones.

as you might guess, history isn't really all that much my thing. at least not european and dominant culture history.

if I HAD been one of them, well i wouldn't have been in the position of facing the qesetion in the op in the first place. i'd have been building up my country's infrastructure and with it the quality of people's lives domesticly rather then trying to impose anything on the rest of the world.

i'd have probably been building railroads, passing out condoms, abondoning the borders and disbanding the army entirely. and died being knifed and bludgend hundreds of times by an agry mob in some sleazy bordillo.

or having turned versai into one.

but deffinately one with lots of little trains running arround all over the place.

=^^=
.../\...