NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you belive in a higher power, God, etc. Just wondering.

No, but I don't see a "No" option. There's a definitive no one doesn't exist option, but that's as absurd as saying one definitely does exist.

I defentily believe in God.

Yet you don't believe in a spellchecker. This is the tragedy of our times.
:p Funny...No really, I'm not being sarcastic...

I defentily believe in God.

Yet you don't believe in a spellchecker. This is the tragedy of our times.

Never have done, most likely never will.

no, cant say as i do.

I believe a power beyond traditional comprehensions set the Big Bang in motion, yes.

I also believe in evolution, a definitively proved theory.

Put it this way, if there is one true god, and many claim that is theres, then chances are you end up worshiping a false one, in which case in most cases eternal damnation for you, but if you choose to belive in none, IF (and im doubtfull it will) a final judgement day does come, sure you dident worship this lord almighty fellow, but you also dident worship some false god which would have been even worse, so the way i see it, im pretty safe in my science and proven fact, if it leads me astray, it straghtens it out, it doesnt cover it up, hence why the world changed shape.

Put it this way, if there is one true god, and many claim that is theres, then chances are you end up worshiping a false one, in which case in most cases eternal damnation for you, but if you choose to belive in none, IF (and im doubtfull it will) a final judgement day does come, sure you dident worship this lord almighty fellow, but you also dident worship some false god which would have been even worse, so the way i see it, im pretty safe in my science and proven fact, if it leads me astray, it straghtens it out, it doesnt cover it up, hence why the world changed shape.

We need lawyers for preachers!

Neo Art, come quick! Set-up a clause in the new Bible so we can worship the true God, whether or not it exists, and in whatever form it is in.

haha, go easy, it was only post number one, if im going to say anything, its going to be long winded and not have a real point, its a good conversation starter

That reminds be of that Seinfeld episode: The Burning, where George walks out of the meeting.

We need lawyers for preachers!

Neo Art, come quick! Set-up a clause in the new Bible so we can worship the true God, whether or not it exists, and in whatever form it is in.

haha, go easy, it was only post number one, if im going to say anything, its going to be long winded and not have a real point, its a good conversation starter

haha, go easy, it was only post number one, if im going to say anything, its going to be long winded and not have a real point, its a good conversation starter

yes but dont you wish you could write up and enforce such a clause? you would be RICH on breach of contract suits.

I'm not the most powerful being on this planet so yes I absolutely believe in higher power, be it political, physical or mental power.

i can feel the power at my fingertips now.... ohhh yes, i shall take over the WORLD, if it exists and this so called god fellow doesnt want it anymore

haha, go easy, it was only post number one, if im going to say anything, its going to be long winded and not have a real point, its a good conversation starter

Posting a variation on one of the biggest flaw in Pascal's Wager in this thread is a good start here. :cool:

im not going to lie to you, i have no idea what you are talking about
never mind, good old wiki

Yes, although I don't necessarily believe it is a God in the truest sense of the word. Perhaps just something far more advanced than us that gave birth to life on this planet, itself only part of a vast hierarchy that goes above and beyond anything we can imagine in our current form.

Who knows, though?

im not going to lie to you, i have no idea what you are talking about

I'm talking about this:

Put it this way, if there is one true god, and many claim that is theres, then chances are you end up worshiping a false one, in which case in most cases eternal damnation for you, but if you choose to belive in none, IF (and im doubtfull it will) a final judgement day does come, sure you dident worship this lord almighty fellow, but you also dident worship some false god which would have been even worse, so the way i see it, im pretty safe in my science and proven fact, if it leads me astray, it straghtens it out, it doesnt cover it up, hence why the world changed shape.

If you really are unfamiliar with it, look at the wiki explaining Pasca's Wager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager), especially the criticism entitled "Assumes that the correct god is worshipped".

never mind, good old wiki

LOL! :cool: Good job. :D

im not going to lie to you, i have no idea what you are talking about

yeah i was clicking my bookmark and searching before i had even finished that post

I believe in God, because once upon a time the British built a large ship. The ship was so large, so modern, and so powerful they said "Not even God could sink her!"...so naturally it becomes the most infamous shipwreck of all time with a massive loss of life.

Ya know what really gets me scratching my head? The unusually high amount of religious threads here on a government roleplaying game website forum. Religion has absolutely nothing to do with NS but there's so many frickin' religion threads here I'm sick of them. Why the heck do people keep posting religion stuff here anyways? I'm possitive there's better places to post stuff like this online than here.

yeah but, it ran into a chunk of ice floating in the ocean, one that had been frozen for a very long time, god just... pushed it out infront of it....?

Ya know what really gets me scratching my head? The unusually high amount of religious threads here on a government roleplaying game website forum. Religion has absolutely nothing to do with NS but there's so many frickin' religion threads here I'm sick of them. Why the heck do people keep posting religion stuff here anyways? I'm possitive there's better places to post stuff like this online than here.
Religion has always, and will always have an influence on governemnts and history in general. Need an example? Crusades. Or the Islamic radicalists. Either one works.

yeah but, it ran into a chunk of ice floating in the ocean, one that had been frozen for a very long time, god just... pushed it out infront of it....?

Well, he didn't literally "push" it...

Actually if it had ran into the chunk of ice it probably wouldn't have sank, it grazed the edges and made a gash that flooded five watertight bulkheads, it could have lived with four flooded.

and of corse its really interesting because its all theory, i can say that the true god is a giant purple toaster in the sky, no ones going to prove me right or wrong, it keeps things interesting and makes you think with no real answer,
Oh GOSH NO!I'M THINKING!!...Oh my head...(Bloody explosion)

Religion has always, and will always have an influence on governemnts and history in general. Need an example? Crusades. Or the Islamic radicalists. Either one works.

and of corse its really interesting because its all theory, i can say that the true god is a giant purple toaster in the sky, no ones going to prove me right or wrong, it keeps things interesting and makes you think with no real answer,

Well, he didn't literally "push" it...

Actually if it had ran into the chunk of ice it probably wouldn't have sank, it grazed the edges and made a gash that flooded five watertight bulkheads, it could have lived with four flooded.

and he did this to... Prove a point? doesnt sound like the kind of guy i want to worship eh

and of corse its really interesting because its all theory, i can say that the true god is a giant purple toaster in the sky, no ones going to prove me right or wrong, it keeps things interesting and makes you think with no real answer,

Purple toaster eh, interesting theory. What if I told you it's not actually purple, but rather a nice shade of mauve?

and he did this to... Prove a point? doesn't sound like the kind of guy i want to worship eh

Pretty much, so what is the sound of a guy you want to worship?

Ya know what really gets me scratching my head? The unusually high amount of religious threads here on a government roleplaying game website forum. Religion has absolutely nothing to do with NS but there's so many frickin' religion threads here I'm sick of them. Why the heck do people keep posting religion stuff here anyways? I'm possitive there's better places to post stuff like this online than here.

Heh. As a veteran Generalite, let me tell you that things are pretty quiet on that front right now. As to why people do so, some are trolls (like the guy who's suggesting another crusade in another thread right now), some are people who have a weak idea of the separation of Church and state (either way), some are US Americans (who tend to be more overtly religious than most non-US English speakers), and some are combinations of the above.

Also, NSG (as well as the RP forums) are not exclusively about government/politics. Lots of tangental stuff gets discussed here.

Purple toaster eh, interesting theory. What if I told you it's not actually purple, but rather a nice shade of mauve?

Well then you would re-write my toaster manual to say so, and then hate on anybody with the purple copy

I believe in God, because once upon a time the British built a large ship. The ship was so large, so modern, and so powerful they said "Not even God could sink her!"...so naturally it becomes the most infamous shipwreck of all time with a massive loss of life.

How do you tie in an unrelated, happenstance event with the existence of an imaginary friend? Perhaps vindication of your beliefs because the 'non-believers' were smitten by this invisible wizard, who is not suppose to be so cruel in the first place?

I fail to see the link here. Do please, enlighten me.

Only polytheist to respond so far!

For those who find my poll votes to be conflicting, they're not.

I believe that the concept of the divine is that of a human need to respect, and honor the physical laws which govern the universe. Math, particle physics, all that wonderful science stuff. So no, to me there is no person floating in the sky with a long beard, or many of them if you so wish. However, the personification of the physical laws of the universe in a manner of worshiping, and thus respecting, them is in fact a god, or gods. Thus, it boils down to, I am both an atheist, and a deeply religious polytheist. All it comes down to, in my eyes, is whether or not you believe there is a single uniting mathematical theory like the grand unification theory, or that the universe is simply chaos.

So there, the answer is yes AND no! And I am both an atheist and a deeply religious polytheist!

Now to sit back and laugh while religious conservatives and die hard atheists try to explain to me why I'm wrong, missing the point of what I said completely.

I believe in myself and I'm really high right now, does that count? ;) just kidding I'm sober right now

yeah but, it ran into a chunk of ice floating in the ocean, one that had been frozen for a very long time, god just... pushed it out infront of it....?

I almost lost the connection there - kinda sounded like you were on about James Morrow's Towing Jehovah (God is dead, his 2 mile long corpse is floating in the Atlantic...) for a moment.

So there, the answer is yes AND no! And I am both an atheist and a deeply religious polytheist!

Great! Now my head hurts trying to comprehend what you just said!

I dunno...A higher power isn't provable or unprovable, so maybe there is one maybe not...I'm an Agnostic

Great! Now my head hurts trying to comprehend what you just said!

Obviously proof that my logic is flawless.


yeah but... what about the toaster, it doesnt have a beard, and it sits upon a magical golden countertop

To some the toaster has a beard, is not purple, and perhaps sits on a table and not counter. It is subjective to the person!

Naturally the toaster is a perfect representation of thermodynamics as well.

Well then you would re-write my toaster manual to say so, and then hate on anybody with the purple copy

Meh, sounds like too much hard work. Purple it is then.

Purple toaster eh, interesting theory. What if I told you it's not actually purple, but rather a nice shade of mauve?

Only polytheist to respond so far!

For those who find my poll votes to be conflicting, they're not.

I believe that the concept of the divine is that of a human need to respect, and honor the physical laws which govern the universe. Math, particle physics, all that wonderful science stuff. So no, to me there is no person floating in the sky with a long beard, or many of them if you so wish. However, the personification of the physical laws of the universe in a manner of worshiping, and thus respecting, them is in fact a god, or gods. Thus, it boils down to, I am both an atheist, and a deeply religious polytheist. All it comes down to, in my eyes, is whether or not you believe there is a single uniting mathematical theory like the grand unification theory, or that the universe is simply chaos.

So there, the answer is yes AND no! And I am both an atheist and a deeply religious polytheist!

Now to sit back and laugh while religious conservatives and die hard atheists try to explain to me why I'm wrong, missing the point of what I said completely.

yeah but... what about the toaster, it doesnt have a beard, and it sits upon a magical golden countertop

How do you tie in an unrelated, happenstance event with the existence of an imaginary friend? Perhaps vindication of your beliefs because the 'non-believers' were smitten by this invisible wizard, who is not suppose to be so cruel in the first place?

I fail to see the link here. Do please, enlighten me.

I never said they were "non-believers", It could have been the most theistic person in the world, I said they were being arrogant.

April 10, 1912 - "Not even God can sink this ship!"

April 15, 1912 - Titanic sinks in North Atlantic and becomes most infamous shipwreck of all time

coincidence, i think no...

Obviously proof that my logic is flawless.




To some the toaster has a beard, is not purple, and perhaps sits on a table and not counter. It is subjective to the person!

Naturally the toaster is a perfect representation of thermodynamics as well.

propetual toaster heat motion god, we are but mear imperfect imiations, hence why we burn dead dinsaurs and tress to heat our bread,

None whatsoever.

Except them aliens. Thems is probable.

I never said they were "non-believers", It could have been the most theistic person in the world, I said they were being arrogant.



coincidence, i think no...
but if claimed aloud before the sailing,not even alex Peddie of cambridge new zealand could sink this ship, and then it sank, will i be the one that is held responsible, gods probably not stoaked about being blamed for that

Pretty much, so what is the sound of a guy you want to worship?

Large, purple ionised metal coating, no beard, wont burn my toast

I believe that the concept of the divine is that of a human need to respect, and honor the physical laws which govern the universe. Math, particle physics, all that wonderful science stuff. So no, to me there is no person floating in the sky with a long beard, or many of them if you so wish. However, the personification of the physical laws of the universe in a manner of worshiping, and thus respecting, them is in fact a god, or gods. Thus, it boils down to, I am both an atheist, and a deeply religious polytheist. All it comes down to, in my eyes, is whether or not you believe there is a single uniting mathematical theory like the grand unification theory, or that the universe is simply chaos.


metaphysical wankery, nothing more.

I believe a power beyond traditional comprehensions set the Big Bang in motion, yes.

I also believe in evolution, a definitively proved theory.

Then it wouldn't be proven.

Not to mention, no it isn't.

Not to mention, much of it was disproved hundreds of years ago.

metaphysical wankery, nothing more.

Much like the entire point of this thread, as religion is simply metaphysical wankery as well.

the two 'atheist' options combined is at about 58% now. I didn't realize This forum was so freethinking.

And Conservative Morality, I find your politics ridiculous, but I'm enjoying you're threads. Thanks.

Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.
Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the Opiate of the people.
The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

well, my toaster requires that i sleep 4 hours a night facing the brightest star in the northeren half of the sky during candadian winters, so i must give him all my money to keep it happy and sleep in ways that are in accordance with his wishes now, lest he toast me in a crumby tray for all eternity, night all.

Then it wouldn't be proven.

Not to mention, no it isn't.

Not to mention, much of it was disproved hundreds of years ago.

Theories are provable, at least as much as anything else is provable. For the record, a Theory is a working framework for a collection of facts. Since it's a system, it doesn't really ever fit into our definition of what a 'fact' is.

For instance, no one denies atoms, but all our ideas about atoms come from 'the atomic theory of mass.' Same thing goes for our 'theory of gravity.'

Much like the entire point of this thread, as religion is simply metaphysical wankery as well.

So you dismiss metaphysical religion, but not another metaphysical notion about fields of knowledge being personified on some level? I gave up on ideas as being anything more than facets of language, in turn nothing more than patterns of neurons firing, the day I gave up the idea of god.

I never said they were "non-believers", It could have been the most theistic person in the world, I said they were being arrogant.



coincidence, i think no...

It was never said, but implied. That is the mentality. And the amount of theism one has is irrelevant, as is the phrase. What does one expect one to say during such times, when one is dominated under the notion that something intangible, invisible, and yet somehow all-powerful exists? Furthermore, why call them arrogant? This, again, strengthens my argument that you believe, at least unconsciously, that non-believers should be smitten for such things. From that, I can rather safely determine your 'faith' is very unstable and needs to be reconfirmed.


And why not attribute it to coincidence? I'm confident I can name at least one time where something along that vein was said and nothing bad happened.

So you dismiss metaphysical religion, but not another metaphysical notion about fields of knowledge being personified on some level? I gave up on ideas as being anything more than facets of language, in turn nothing more than patterns of neurons firing, the day I gave up the idea of god.

And of course, as I predicted, you did not understand my concept. It's not that there are actual personifications running around which represent *InsertRandomPhysicalLawHere, but rather that we, as humans, apply a persona to them. Much like in children's story books we apply a name and human traits to animals (Puss in Boots? Horton? Cat in the Hat? Little bunny foo foo?) or other items in an attempt to teach both lessons to our children in social values, and to provide them with education on the existance of such animals, how they interact with nature an exist, how they live, and how to respect them, all while being entertaining to the children interacting with the story. Thus, the idea of gods, especially when you look in any of the pre-Abrahamic religions, is quite easily applicable. Gods of water, grain, writing, travel, the sun and moon, all can easily be applied as our early understanding of functions of the universe. Personification of these understandings to teach, and practice, respect on a cultural level, and provide entertainment as well.

I believe in God, the father almighty. Creator of Heaven and Earth.

No matter what anyone else says, religion is something that is centred in the lives of some other people.

Rather mild, happy sentiments

i see. I can't say I have a problem with any of that, or that there's anything contradictory or unreasonable in your view. Belief, when talking about religion, is a very powerful idea, with a lot of connotations beyond 'here's an interesting approach to ponder.' That's why you're post is confusing. I wouldn't consider what you describe to be religion, or even belief, just an approach for understanding.

If you want to say that such an approach makes you a polytheist, however, it is not for me to stop you.

i see. I can't say I have a problem with any of that, or that there's anything contradictory or unreasonable in your view. Belief, when talking about religion, is a very powerful idea, with a lot of connotations beyond 'here's an interesting approach to ponder.' That's why you're post is confusing. I wouldn't consider what you describe to be religion, or even belief, just an approach for understanding.

If you want to say that such an approach makes you a polytheist, however, it is not for me to stop you.

No, I consider myself a polytheist (Not quite a pantheist, and I refuse to be lumped with them damn hippy "pagans") because after comming to the decsion about the approach I described above, I went activly searching for a religious belief system to adopt as my own, and what I settled on is a polytheist system. Do I believe the sun and moon are related people who do all kinds of crazy stuff and actually hear my prayers? Not in the least. Do I enjoy, at the very least, the entertainment I get from my religious beliefs through applying those pre-created personas to the sun and the moon and worshiping them as I see fit? Hell yes. I could have easily adopted any religion (Within the confines of me not believing in something like the GUT, which is neither proven nor has evidence for. If they ever prove it exists, I'll happily change my mind), and went literally with the one I liked the most.

I consider it a religious belief approach, thus part of religion itself. The fundamental core of religion is how we approach it. If we approach it blindly believing anything thrown at us, or in an analytical way, we will see it differently. And so, any discussion of whether or not you believe in god can not truely start untill you know how you approach what you consider to be "god". I simply pointed out that, unlike many other people here, my concept of "god" is not an all-powerful being or some supernatural being.
Of course you could easily just dictate religion as a dogmatic construction of social norms around a common practice, but that's semantics.

No, but I don't see a "No" option. There's a definitive no one doesn't exist option, but that's as absurd as saying one definitely does exist.
Ditto.

We were asked a Yes-No question, but none of the available options are "No".

I believe in a higher power, not necessarily God, but a higher power anyway. I just can't believe that everything started from nothing. I may be ignorant, but... what the hey!

Do you belive in a higher power, God, etc. Just wondering.

How about a higher power in subconsciousness with an effective autonomic system in unconsciousness, that when approached consciously usually reacts in a primal fashion, leaving the approacher occasionally in hiatus of a semi-conscious nature?

That's basically what i got, and i could say i've got lots o'fucking stories to back it up.

the tragedy of our times.
*FLORT*
Hahahahaha!!!!!!!

no

i believe the unknown is unknown and that there is more of it then the known.

there is certainly something unseen that is bigger then we are, and to all appearances at least, at the very least wishes us no harm.

to invent names for it is a self serving exercise. to speculate as to its nature and origen, begins in speculation and ends in speculation.

as does every contention over any presumption of need for it to exist or not exist.

nothing is bound by our perceptions of what is needed nor why.

i have felt the embrace of something that gives clear indication of both wishing us well and being greater then ourselves.

but that is all that such an impression makes clear. no other claim of any belief does it confirm or deny.

so to say higher power. well yes, in the sense that something or many somethings more powerful then ourselves exists somewhere is almost inevitable, as well as not requiring to be known to be felt.

but higher as in playing a hierarchicly preemptive roll in our individual lives, let alone that of nations, is considerably more in doubt. what it may or may not be responsible for having created is also entirely a matter of speculation.

observably it has left up to us to avoid making a mess of what we must all live with and surrounded by.

i really think the salient point, is that whatever does exist, in no way absolves us of our own responsibility collectively, by the values we prioritise individually, of the simple reality of the mechanism by which we statisticly togather create those conditions each of us individually experience.

higher? well i would not wish to offend by belittling it. authority? this it may possess, but has been infinitely self restrained in exercising.

as would indeed befit an awairness of near infinite power.

claims of such near inifinte power requiring or resulting in, anything resembling an absolute infallability however, reamain intrinsicly and inhierently at best questionable.

=^^=
.../\...

(Sob) Why don't you like my politics? It's not like I'm crazy! Well...At least not when it comes to my political party!:D

Do you belive in a higher power, God, etc. Just wondering.

I accept the possibility of there being some higher power.

Ya know what really gets me scratching my head? The unusually high amount of religious threads here on a government roleplaying game website forum. Religion has absolutely nothing to do with NS but there's so many frickin' religion threads here I'm sick of them. Why the heck do people keep posting religion stuff here anyways? I'm possitive there's better places to post stuff like this online than here.

If you don't like them, just avoid them

and he did this to... Prove a point? doesnt sound like the kind of guy i want to worship eh

Well, according to the bible, he's done similar before

Then it wouldn't be proven.

Not to mention, no it isn't.

Not to mention, much of it was disproved hundreds of years ago.

:confused:

Not to mention, much of it was disproved hundreds of years ago.
It hasn't been disproved, just evidence formerly used for it are disproved. Which means that it is still just a theory,no proof for or aganst it. With the exception of subevoloution,which has been observed.

I don't know. It's kind of sad that I believe more fully that the friends and family who have gone before me are watching over me than I believe there is a God watching over me.
I was Lutheran at one point not too long ago. Now I'm just confused. We'll see if I go back to the church or not -- I'm not sure I will.

Absolutely not. It's just what we have here. No bogeymen that control all...

Nope. I don't see any reason to assume that there is a higher power.

I suppose it's possible, but I doubt it.

None whatsoever.

Except them aliens. Thems is probable.

http://www.freewebs.com/thedemonicrealm/Zerg.jpg
http://gallery.starcraft2fans.com/d/2/ss45?g2_itemId=446

Nope. I don't see any reason to assume that there is a higher power.

That's what killed the supernatural for me. I realized there wasn't any actual reason to believe, that faith was inherently the lack of reason.

That's what killed the supernatural for me. I realized there wasn't any actual reason to believe, that faith was inherently the lack of reason.
Yes, and while we're at it, let's discuss your FAITH in Evoloution. Hm?

Yes, and while we're at it, let's discuss your FAITH in Evoloution. Hm?

Evolution is supported by all available evidence and has been confirmed by a wide variety of experiments in multiple fields, ranging from biology to artificial intelligence. Any faith that is involved in accepting it as the accurate mechanism by which life developed in to its current form is only the basic "faith" necessary for us to believe in reality itself.

There hasn't been "faith" in evolution for a good 150 years.

Oh what do i believe in? Well in philosophy this is a very contested point from whether God exists to whether we exist, so most answers you can give could be correct depending on how you argue it, as i doubt many people have real proof of a God like being or other belief.

Personally this leaves me in a tricky position, basically saying anything i argue can be right or wrong is open to interpretation, it's like saying you can do anything you want in your imaginative world, but that's all it is imaginative.

So i suppose i'd be agnostic, as there are many good arguments to a God who doesn't exist and many that argue he/she does exist.

I suppose what would make sense is that we all have our own God, each one trying to help us out, of course this leaves many issues unsolved e.g. who created them or the universe, what is their purpose? But it's better than making other people believe in one God, sure many years ago it might have been beneficial to believe in God (as life expectancy was low hundreds of years ago i think), but now in a modern (or Post-modern) society we have more choice and freedom now than ever to decide what we want and more time to do it in (this can be disputed, as since governments realise this they can make their workers work for longer).

Sorry my arguments got a little tangenital there, just snippets of thought-lines of different people i've heard.

But personally i think we have no God or we each have our own (it would help explain many unknowns).

I believe in a spiritual existence parallel to physical existence, but not what you'd call a "higher power". There isn't really a corresponding option in the poll.

I went for the polytheist option, as it is the closest to my beliefs that is available. And the I hate you option of course.

what is the sound of a guy you want to worship?

*fap fap fap*
Funny, just got past the part on American Beauty where he's whackin' off in bed next to Carolyn. Real life just needs the tune and inspiration. :p

Yes, and while we're at it, let's discuss your FAITH in Evoloution. Hm?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUKN0324402320080104

Yes, let's discuss faith in evidence.

I believe that 2^X, where X is equal to or greater then 1 exists.

So I believe in 'higher powers'

I believe that 2^X, where X is equal to or greater then 1 exists.

So I believe in 'higher powers'
Page 6 ftw!

No; I'm an agnostic atheist.
Neither of the two gnostic viewpoints are scientifically defensible.

And to be honest, having debated a lot about religion lately, I might have to review my expectations of gnostic theists. Gnostic atheists are bad enough, but I haven't seen a single shred of logical thought from the theists so far.

Personally i do believe in a higher being, something that made sure there is a universe, and which i call God to make it easy... this is why...

First of all, there is a universe, or we seem to see one, so either it exists or the universe is a simple imagination of your own brain (just try to think about the consequences of the last part) we can agree for the ease of the following reasoning that there is one...
Now i call whatever created the universe is supposed to be called God or gods, since thats what all so called major and most so called minor religions agree on... Whether this is done by a single word or a huge ball of mud, i don't know and frankly i don't really care. Now there are several possibilities:
- the universe wasn't created, but simply always was there. In that case the universe itself is God... Since the fact that the universe exists is only possible because the universe exists... and thus the universe is responsible for its own being...
- the universe is just a imagination of your mind. In that case your God since your thoughts made sure the universe with all on it, including you were thought of by you. This is a terrifying thought, since that would mean that in some way your responsible for all that goes wrong at this place... plus when you die the universe, and thus also me, would siege to be...
- the universe is created by a big bang, or a kind of chemical/physical reaction that created it. In that case, you would have guessed it, i call that reaction/bang God...
- A creature other then anything that lives inside the universe imagined/created it. That would gives us a God/multiple gods if there were more of them helping each other, but that gives us more questions, like where do they live? Do they live in an other, bigger universe that happens to have our universe inside it and were we some kind of a lab experiment? Is our entire universe nothing more or less then a body of some kind? Are we inside a kind of giant rock? Why do i tell this, well when you look (with a somewhat perceptive mind) to an atom you can see several objects orbiting around a bigger central object... And where in the universe have we seen that before ;) All these possibilities are equally possible, but would leave us, like said before, the question that when all is set and done there is still the matter of where those things are. So reasonably this can't be the ultimate answer, since something/someone had to create that too... so we would be at the top again.

For the ease of this let us assume this ends somewhere, and there is finally something, so at the end there are two options:
- or it always existed (until now that is)
- or it is a reaction

if it always existed, then it has to be approximately billions of billions of years old (assuming the big bang, for which there is some evidence, did only entered us in a new version of the old concept of the universe (one of the three theories about the expending of the universe...))
Now it can be some kind of an old guy with a long beard on which atoms we live, and than it is not likely that he would wonder if we would worship him. Just how many times did you thought, man i do hope the creatures that possibly live on my atoms better worship me or else... and start shaking with your fist just after you finished that sentence...

If you or someone/something else is imaginating this (whether it is part of the universe as well or isn't) than it would be imaginating as well that we do or do not worship him/here/it, so if God wanted to be worshiped God would have imagined that as well...

It is all but a reaction... Nice then, so it is a reaction... what do reactions care if they are worshiped or not... I mean i do thousands of reactions in my body every day, and even some more in the lab, if i need to worship all of those then i wouldn't have any time to do anything else...

So to answer the question. I believe that God/gods exist, but he/she/they/it don't care if we worship them or not...

Personally i do believe in a higher being, something that made sure there is a universe, and which i call God to make it easy... this is why...

First of all, there is a universe, or we seem to see one, so either it exists or the universe is a simple imagination of your own brain (just try to think about the consequences of the last part) we can agree for the ease of the following reasoning that there is one...
Now i call whatever created the universe is supposed to be called God or gods, since thats what all so called major and most so called minor religions agree on... Whether this is done by a single word or a huge ball of mud, i don't know and frankly i don't really care. Now there are several possibilities:
- the universe wasn't created, but simply always was there. In that case the universe itself is God... Since the fact that the universe exists is only possible because the universe exists... and thus the universe is responsible for its own being...
- the universe is just a imagination of your mind. In that case your God since your thoughts made sure the universe with all on it, including you were thought of by you. This is a terrifying thought, since that would mean that in some way your responsible for all that goes wrong at this place... plus when you die the universe, and thus also me, would siege to be...
- the universe is created by a big bang, or a kind of chemical/physical reaction that created it. In that case, you would have guessed it, i call that reaction/bang God...
- A creature other then anything that lives inside the universe imagined/created it. That would gives us a God/multiple gods if there were more of them helping each other, but that gives us more questions, like where do they live? Do they live in an other, bigger universe that happens to have our universe inside it and were we some kind of a lab experiment? Is our entire universe nothing more or less then a body of some kind? Are we inside a kind of giant rock? Why do i tell this, well when you look (with a somewhat perceptive mind) to an atom you can see several objects orbiting around a bigger central object... And where in the universe have we seen that before ;) All these possibilities are equally possible, but would leave us, like said before, the question that when all is set and done there is still the matter of where those things are. So reasonably this can't be the ultimate answer, since something/someone had to create that too... so we would be at the top again.

For the ease of this let us assume this ends somewhere, and there is finally something, so at the end there are two options:
- or it always existed (until now that is)
- or it is a reaction

if it always existed, then it has to be approximately billions of billions of years old (assuming the big bang, for which there is some evidence, did only entered us in a new version of the old concept of the universe (one of the three theories about the expending of the universe...))
Now it can be some kind of an old guy with a long beard on which atoms we live, and than it is not likely that he would wonder if we would worship him. Just how many times did you thought, man i do hope the creatures that possibly live on my atoms better worship me or else... and start shaking with your fist just after you finished that sentence...

If you or someone/something else is imaginating this (whether it is part of the universe as well or isn't) than it would be imaginating as well that we do or do not worship him/here/it, so if God wanted to be worshiped God would have imagined that as well...

It is all but a reaction... Nice then, so it is a reaction... what do reactions care if they are worshiped or not... I mean i do thousands of reactions in my body every day, and even some more in the lab, if i need to worship all of those then i wouldn't have any time to do anything else...

So to answer the question. I believe that God/gods exist, but he/she/they/it don't care if we worship them or not...

So assuming there is a God or Gods as you say, what is the purpose of this or these Gods? Yes they help explain why we are here but why are they here? Would they be any different to us if we were in the situation they are or were in?
So you think that everything has a reaction. Why? (this relates to Determinism).
Ah interesting you're saying we're too insignificant to tell this God that we exist or communicate to him/her our existance, i suppose you could reverse the scenario, and say maybe God isn't sure we exist, might have been the creator but has no knowledge about us.

For one of your points, i don't see why there needs to be a God that is the universe, as saying the universe is eternal is sufficiant.
I never knew some of those points of view, thanks for all the fish.

Do you belive in a higher power, God, etc. Just wondering.
"Higher power" is far too vague.

Higher than what? Higher in what sense? Or are is "higher power" just the new euphemism for "conscious deity or deities"?

"Higher power" is far too vague.

Higher than what? Higher in what sense? Or are is "higher power" just the new euphemism for "conscious deity or deities"?

I think you're avoiding the question.
What is your point of view, just guess what the person is on about if you don't understand them, well that's what i do.
But i think he meant creator and/or God or aliens.
Happy christmas.

I think you're avoiding the question.

You're wrong. I don't even know what the question is. Instead of playing guessing games, I ask for clarification.


What is your point of view, just guess what the person is on about if you don't understand them, well that's what i do.

I ask.


But i think he meant creator and/or God or aliens.
Happy christmas.
If he meant creator, God, or aliens, then why not say so?

You're wrong. I don't even know what the question is. Instead of playing guessing games, I ask for clarification.


I ask.


If he meant creator, God, or aliens, then why not say so?

I thought he did.

Do you belive in a higher power, God, etc. Just wondering.

Probably just wants to see what we're thinking about God in general if the question is not specific.

Rubbish poll is rubbish.

Rubbish poll is rubbish.

Because your polls are so much better?
Or because this poll is so much worse than yours?
Or is it because you don't like it, it counts as rubbish?

I believe a power beyond traditional comprehensions set the Big Bang in motion, yes.

I also believe in evolution, a definitively proved theory.

I believe said power to be the Great Dragon, who caused Life & the Universe to exist, and sleeps beneath the Earth.

Because your polls are so much better?
Or because this poll is so much worse than yours?
Or is it because you don't like it, it counts as rubbish?

Because the poll makes it so that to be an atheist, you also have to believe that those who believe in God are of feeble mind.

Because the poll makes it so that to be an atheist, you also have to believe that those who believe in God are of feeble mind.

I think the idea is that all human minds are feeble--that human mental capacity is feeble, and that is why, in general, we are drawn to supernatural explanations for what we cannot understand.

But I'm not sure.

So assuming there is a God or Gods as you say, what is the purpose of this or these Gods? Yes they help explain why we are here but why are they here? Would they be any different to us if we were in the situation they are or were in?
So you think that everything has a reaction. Why? (this relates to Determinism).

can be that it looks like determinism, to tell you the truth i don't know what that is :s, one day i just took me a chair and started to think whether it is likely or not that there is a God/gods. And basically that is what came out of it (well in an other language of course, but you'll get the point :P Why did i do that in the first place, quite simple a teacher religious education (hope this is an existing term?) ordered the entire class to do so and explain why you thought there was a God or why there wasn't. No right or wrong question, just the discussion itself mattered... no need to tell she was stunned :P

To answer the first part, why they are here, i guess you missed i vital point in the reasoning, can't blame you though, my English isn't that good so i guess i just misused some terms and or words so the whole thing isn't completely clear. Besides my teacher didn't get it at first as well :P The point is that i don't necessarily believe that God or the gods have a reason to be other then to have created the universe. Since that was the start of the entire reasoning. God = the thing that made/makes? sure the universe exists. Now it is likely that your next argument is that i could have called it rock or john or even plrmkq as well, and you know you would be right on that, but that is just a matter of words, once in history someone has invented the word God as well... In the worst scenario i change the definition of a God to that person a bit, and in the best situation i merely made his/her definition a bit more specific...

The other question you post, whether they would differ much from us is actually concealed in the reasoning as well. You see i proposed two options there in which we could become a God/gods ourselves and that is either that if the theory that solar systems are nothing more but atoms from way bigger creatures then we can possibly imagine. In that case we can have all kinds of little universes inside our bodies, and according to the laws of chance it would be very likely that at least one of us has at least one live form one one of his electrones. Of course this is a theory and it can not (yet?) be studied if it contains truth or is just some bullsh*t...
An other one is that we are some kind of a lab experiment. It can be so that the scientific progress of the live forms that do such experiments is way advanced above ours (i would even tend to say very likely to be)... So who knows, maybe we are creating small universes as well someday... Again this is nothing but a theory.
Both things aren't conclusive at all since they would need to have a bigger thing to live in (or an other, über-God) Thats why i narrowed the options again at the end that could be of use to determent the biggest one, the one that started it all...
I do like to mention here that it isn't necessary for my reasoning that there are multiple steps involved in the God process... Most likely the most of theories i've posted before aren't facts. But then again all experiments need more options, so there are always wrong theories... The real challenge is to prove what theory is the right one. (although i am not sure the real reason is amongst the theories, but you'll get the point i hope?


Ah interesting you're saying we're too insignificant to tell this God that we exist or communicate to him/her our existance, i suppose you could reverse the scenario, and say maybe God isn't sure we exist, might have been the creator but has no knowledge about us.

Sure maybe that isn't totally clear, but that was implicated as well in the atom/solar system theory... we might be gods ourselves without ever knowing we are... Or in the lab experiment, that it was just some kind of collision of masses (experiments that humans tend to do as well on daily basis) that created the big bang and thus our universe...
Also when the universe is just the thing that always was, and thus was the reason of the existence of the universe, which would make it God due to my definition of it. Well it ain't likely that the universe has something of a conscience to start with... Although we can't totally ignore the possibility it might... (yes this makes stuff difficult :P)

For one of your points, i don't see why there needs to be a God that is the universe, as saying the universe is eternal is sufficiant.

Well for starters every option needs to be considered (by which i don't want to have said that i mentioned all possibilities, it is likely i forgot about some likely possibilities, after all, i am only human (or am i? :P) ), so i can't let out the possibility that the universe was eternal. Due to my definition (God = the reason that the universe exists) it would be clear that in this possibility the universe and God are synonyms...
I do realize that a weak spot in the total construction is the definition of God. But then again, does it alter that much from the usual dictionary version of the defenition? Van Dale second edition describes God as a creature that is worshiped by polytheistic persons and that is powerful and above human...
Or the upper creature, the maker and the spirit by which everything is...
The second part almost fits like a glove with my definition...

I never knew some of those points of view, thanks for all the fish.

Well i would be surprised if you would, since i completely created that whole reasoning and never ever talked about it on the we... I do have to say that i already was interested in the subject before i've got that assignment in the first place, so it is very likely that some points are alternations or total rip offs from someone else's ideas?

Any god who created the platypus had to be on some serious drugs. So yes.

I believe in God. Do not think to imagine, however, that the Islamic Allah is a real god. Nor is the Jewish bastardized "G-d".

I believe in God. Do not think to imagine, however, that the Islamic Allah is a real god. Nor is the Jewish bastardized "G-d".

They are the same entity. The Jewish god IS the Christian god, and Muslims describe themselves as believing in the same god of Jesus and Abraham, just that some facts about him are wrong.

It was never said, but implied. That is the mentality. And the amount of theism one has is irrelevant, as is the phrase. What does one expect one to say during such times, when one is dominated under the notion that something intangible, invisible, and yet somehow all-powerful exists? Furthermore, why call them arrogant? This, again, strengthens my argument that you believe, at least unconsciously, that non-believers should be smitten for such things. From that, I can rather safely determine your 'faith' is very unstable and needs to be reconfirmed.


And why not attribute it to coincidence? I'm confident I can name at least one time where something along that vein was said and nothing bad happened.

I never said they weren't theistic, and i don't think non-believers should be smitten i have no idea where you are coming for on that it has nothing to do with my argument. I call the people who made the ship arrogant because you are saying that something you have made is stronger than the one who created the universe. Putting something something you have made ahead of God. It's just wrong, i mean look what happened at the tower of Babel.

I don't attribute it to coincidence because somethings just have a reason, and I think a lot of good came out of the incident as well as lot of bad. Shipping regulations, emergency drills, having enough life boats for all. I think there was a purpose for all that happening so that just re-affirms what i believe.

They are the same entity. The Jewish god IS the Christian god, and Muslims describe themselves as believing in the same god of Jesus and Abraham, just that some facts about him are wrong.

Trying to reason with the unreasonable is a losing battle.

Anyways, would pot count? Cuz everytime I blaze I feel touched by a higher power.

I realized there wasn't any actual reason to believe, that faith was inherently the lack of reason.
Funny, that's what Martin Luther said.

Yes, and while we're at it, let's discuss your FAITH in Evoloution. Hm?

If you want to discuss how faith operates in the scientific method, you have to do better than that.

Scientists have faith that the universe is inherently rational, i.e. that it can be comprehended and explained using logic. This is an unproven assumption. I don't think it's even possible to devise an experiment to disprove it. Yet this is an underlying belief in every step of the scientific method.

Funny, that's what Martin Luther said.

Then Luther oversimplified the relationship between faith and reason, just like the majority of NSG posters.

I am not a very religious person but I would like to think there is a higher power so that there would be a place where we can reunite with our loved ones after we are gone from this massive headache we call life.

I am not a very religious person but I would like to think there is a higher power so that there would be a place where we can reunite with our loved ones after we are gone from this massive headache we call life.

true, well at least sometimes you can be responsible for your headache. ie with lots of alcohol, it's a tried and tested method you know.
Or food is always good, or laughing at other people's posts (i like this one), or sex or sleep.
happy hunting

Then Luther oversimplified the relationship between faith and reason, just like the majority of NSG posters.
If I recall correctly (and I suppose I could look this up), Luther's actual remark was, "Faith necessarily tramples under all sense, reason, and understanding."

And he was right. Faith doesn't make any rational sense under any circumstances.

Well i don't agree on this... Faith does make sense, religion doesn't...

Pretty much, so what is the sound of a guy you want to worship?

SOUND of a guy i want to worship? :confused:

*blush* *brightens rusted halo*

I think I lost something between the lines, no?

Rafe