NationStates Jolt Archive

OK, I'm interested in some opinions. I will be attaching a poll. Here are what I see as the possible options:

Split into independent countries.
Become a federation
Keep it as it is
Return full control to Westminster

Personally, I like the idea of a Federated Kingdom. I think it would be fair to the constituent countries without creating the risk of economic consequences.

Play each nation off the other until they are involved in a full scale European war... then sweep in and take control of everything.

Whuh... why isn't that on the poll?

A federation would be nice. Make sure those damned Londoners keep to their corner of it :p

I imagine this poll is a bit of a split from the other thread?

A federation would be nice. Make sure those damned Londoners keep to their corner of it :p

I imagine this poll is a bit of a split from the other thread?

Not really - it did go off topic (thanks to my side-note in the OP), but not quite in this direction.

I would like to see London declare independence and then build itself a moat to keep the rest of the UK out.

I prefer (http://youtube.com/watch?v=zzijXOdprm0)

or maybe huge autonomy being granted to county councils (accept my local council)

Space aliens win.

or maybe huge autonomy being granted to county councils (accept my local council)

Maaaaaan, be careful what you wish for. I work for one and.... *sigh*... it makes my brain cry. :(

Maaaaaan, be careful what you wish for. I work for one and.... *sigh*... it makes my brain cry. :(

hence why my county council won't have any power at all and thus Northamptonshire can become a beacon of democracy and freedom again :D

and when we have our way shoe shops shall open on every corner at low prices for 24 hours a day muhuhuhahaha!

I would be nice to take a huge chainsaw, slice it from where currently sits, attach a large Evinrude outboard motor and move it down south a bit, possibly off Portugal though I'm not a great fan of the Atlantic - would be nice to squeeze it through the Gibraltar Straits and into the Mediterranean.

We could leave Wales where it is.

Would you yaps stop complaining about nationality! You're all one country now STFU and GTFO!

Although I'm an American, I feel England won't be England anymore if it's not a kingdom. Of course, if the English people don't want the kingdom, that's not them anymore anyways.

Although I'm an American, I feel England won't be England anymore if it's not a kingdom. Of course, if the English people don't want the kingdom, that's not them anymore anyways.

Yeah, but if they abolish the monarchy, Disney can buy up the castles and make them fun! Think of it! I'd totally visit.

Although I'm an American, I feel England won't be England anymore if it's not a kingdom. Of course, if the English people don't want the kingdom, that's not them anymore anyways.

True, but this is about the whole United Kingdom, not just England.

Would you yaps stop complaining about nationality! You're all one country now STFU and GTFO!

Tell the bloody Scots that!

I don't have a favourite option, but I think some form of federation is where it's headed in the long run.
Not necessarily as loose as the US, but possibly a little along the German model, with local affairs handled locally, but the same law for all the country.

I prefer (http://youtube.com/watch?v=zzijXOdprm0)

or maybe huge autonomy being granted to county councils (accept my local council)You want to become a talking dog that only says Crest?:confused:

I would be nice to take a huge chainsaw, slice it from where currently sits, attach a large Evinrude outboard motor and move it down south a bit, possibly off Portugal though I'm not a great fan of the Atlantic - would be nice to squeeze it through the Gibraltar Straits and into the Mediterranean.

We could leave Wales where it is.

SECONDED!

I propose we nudge Crete out of the way and put it there ;)

I would like to see London declare independence and then build itself a moat to keep the rest of the UK out.
Excellent idea. I promise that our prices for water and food wont be too extortionate. :p

Would you yaps stop complaining about nationality! You're all one country now STFU and GTFO!
Your opinion has been noted, carefully analysed, and then discounted. Thank you for your time.

Although I'm an American, I feel England won't be England anymore if it's not a kingdom. Of course, if the English people don't want the kingdom, that's not them anymore anyways.
You appear to have missed the entire angle that this thread is supposed to be concentrating on.

Tell the bloody Scots that!
Yes, please do, because we've never, ever heard it before.

Would you yaps stop complaining about nationality! You're all one country now STFU and GTFO!
Declare that late on a friday night in the middle of Glasgow, and be thankful we have universal healthcare.

Oh, and my preferred option would for the UK to become a federation of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Regions of England.

London will never be independent. London generates too much $$$ for the rest of the country. However there are other strategic places like Felixstow (40% of all UK trade passes through Felixstow).

I would like to the UK become a Republic with an elected head of state. I would like to see the UK become less of a police state (ironies of ironies...the Tories are bleating that Gordo is bringing in too much new anti terror legislation)...in fact completely stop being a police state fullstop. I'd like to see our political class get its head bashed in along with 'vested interests'.

I'd like to see a complete overhaul of not only education but also the role of parenting in society.

I'd be looking at restructuring the tax system as well as how funding allocated to not only government departments but also to the quangos.

I would also examine the longterm effects of a housing policy that actively drives local people away from their places of birth. In the short term I would be looking at allowing local councils to start building social housing along with the allocation of brown/green field sites and the idea that converting gardens into housing is a good idea.

Professionals would also come under closer scrutiny as would the number of useless universities and degrees. I would be more than happy to see the return of the Polytechnics.

etc etc etc

Oh...I'd disband the FA...quit UEFA and FIFA in an attempt to stop corruption in football.

Go back to before devolution.

Devolved government chambers are permitted to make changes to their sections, drawing upon funds from English taxpayer that they wouldn't otherwise be able to afford (Scottish university & prescription funding) while members from their constituencies can still vote in Westminster on English matters.

Keep a common standard, damnit!

Cheers & later all,
A proud Brit & Unionist

Meh!

Devolved government chambers are permitted to make changes to their sections, drawing upon funds from English taxpayer that they wouldn't otherwise be able to afford (Scottish university & prescription funding) while members from their constituencies can still vote in Westminster on English matters.

Keep a common standard, damnit!
I can understand why this sort of thing must rankle (some of) the English electorate, and I'm pretty sure it would wind me up too if situations were reversed.

Of course, the Scottish Nationalist rebuttal to such complaints would be that the funds come not from the English taxpayer, but from 'Scottish' oil revenues which, regardless of what some Unionists would have you believe, is a pretty good claim and would be hard to contest if Scotland were an independent entity rather than a devolved area.

Devolving some powers to English regions on par with those enjoyed by Holyrood might be a nice solution, except that the funding received from central government would then be even more open to allegations of abuse by all the petty beancounters that infest every corner of the UK. The West Lothian question was raised over 30 years ago, and there still hasn't been any solution posited that would be acceptable to all.

I don't see going back to the way things were before devolution as being an option, though.

I don't see going back to the way things were before devolution as being an option, though.

To be honest, neither do I.

I suspect that I might just be irritated that the Scots seem to be doing some things (like university funding and free prescriptions :rolleyes:) better than the English.

Mind you, I'm not really allowed to have an opinion on tax spending, as (being a dirty, layabout student paying £3000/yr for hardly anything in the way of lectures) I don't pay tax yet.

I suspect that I might just be irritated that the Scots seem to be doing some things (like university funding and free prescriptions ) better than the English
Well, we do seem to be doing some things better. I suspect, though, that if we had the same population levels as exist down South, with multiple large, overpopulated cities and all the rest, we wouldn't be doing quite so well out of it all.

This, of course, is just a rephrasing of another one of the lines of reasoning that the SNP have been hammering away at us with ever since I can remember. Or it might be accurate to say that sometimes it's better to be a small country, I guess.

Well, we do seem to be doing some things better. I suspect, though, that if we had the same population levels as exist down South, with multiple large, overpopulated cities and all the rest, we wouldn't be doing quite so well out of it all.

This, of course, is just a rephrasing of another one of the lines of reasoning that the SNP have been hammering away at us with ever since I can remember. Or it might be accurate to say that sometimes it's better to be a small country, I guess.

Well at least there is one area where the English and Scots both excel at...going over budget when constructing public buildings

Well at least there is one area where the English and Scots both excel at...going over budget when constructing public buildings
Hehe, no arguments there :p

I would like to see London declare independence and then build itself a moat to keep the rest of the UK out.

I'd like to see that too. I'd even help them dig.

Actually, a sea wall would be preferable to a moat. Then we'll be ahead of the game a few decades from now, when much of London will be underwater. I somehow doubt the moat would be deep enough to keep the North Sea out.

Go back to before devolution.

Devolved government chambers are permitted to make changes to their sections, drawing upon funds from English taxpayer that they wouldn't otherwise be able to afford (Scottish university & prescription funding) while members from their constituencies can still vote in Westminster on English matters.

Keep a common standard, damnit!

Cheers & later all,
A proud Brit & Unionist
That's nothing to do with devolution, that's the Barnett Formula, which dates to well before the Scotland Act. Voting in the Commons is, though.

Pfft, I really couldn't care less for two reasons.

1) There's a high chance I'm going to end up emigrating.

2) The EU pretends not to be making inroads on national sovereignty, but secretly they have a cunning plan to enforce their liberal ideas upon all Europe! So you can either be told what to by: a bunch of bureaucrats in Westminster who are in turn told what to do by EU bureaucrats; or your own nationalities bureaucrats who are in turn told what to do by EU bureaucrats - your call.

Pfft, I really couldn't care less for two reasons.

1) There's a high chance I'm going to end up emigrating.

2) The EU pretends not to be making inroads on national sovereignty, but secretly they have a cunning plan to enforce their liberal ideas upon all Europe! So you can either be told what to by: a bunch of bureaucrats in Westminster who are in turn told what to do by EU bureaucrats; or your own nationalities bureaucrats who are in turn told what to do by EU bureaucrats - your call.
Out of interest, where in the world are you thinking that you can emigrate to that is run any differently?

I think split COUNTRIES (we are not in fookin America here pal...so whats with the state option?)

All independent from each other...lets face it...im Welsh...and us the scots and the irish want nothing to do with the english at the best of times...so lets keep it as the UK (United Kingdom) but have four countries governing themselves (Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England)

Oh yeah...

CYMRU AM BYTH

:cool:

Pfft, I really couldn't care less for two reasons.

1) There's a high chance I'm going to end up emigrating.

2) The EU pretends not to be making inroads on national sovereignty, but secretly they have a cunning plan to enforce their liberal ideas upon all Europe! So you can either be told what to by: a bunch of bureaucrats in Westminster who are in turn told what to do by EU bureaucrats; or your own nationalities bureaucrats who are in turn told what to do by EU bureaucrats - your call.

Euroskeptic! Up high!

I want a federal constitution, and more than just at the national level. I think counties/council areas are a better size (mostly because I am from Edinburgh and no Glaswegian runs my city!). I want out of the EU more. I would accept federalism, centralism, the status quo, and if EU control tightens even temporary Scottish independance: anything to get away from Brussels.

Brit, Unionist, Monarchist. My ordered priorities.

Euroskeptic! Up high!
Yeah, but if we were to withdraw from the EU, what would be our national scapegoat?

I think split COUNTRIES (we are not in fookin America here pal...so whats with the state option?)

All independent from each other...lets face it...im Welsh...and us the scots and the irish want nothing to do with the english at the best of times...so lets keep it as the UK (United Kingdom) but have four countries governing themselves (Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England)
We already are seperate countries, but in one state. It's more of a technical term, I think.

complete devolution to the local community level, anything affecting multiple communities can be dealt with by temporary alliances.

edit: 8,000th post, woop! woop!

complete devolution to the local community level, anything affecting multiple communities can be dealt with by temporary alliances.

Or we can resort to hunter-gatherer tribes! :D

Or we can resort to hunter-gatherer tribes! :D

i'm no primitivist. anyway, correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think atlanta is in the uk.

i'm no primitivist. anyway, correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think atlanta is in the uk.

Ah, but I was talking about the whole human race!

Anyways I'm kidding.

Monarchy and re-instate the Empire


HUZZAH!

That's nothing to do with devolution, that's the Barnett Formula, which dates to well before the Scotland Act. Voting in the Commons is, though.
The Barnett formula is older, but the current gripes are very much a product of devolution. It is Barnett that grants the Welsh Assembly and Scottish Parliament their budgets, giving them to funds to provide services unavailable in England. If they did not have the power to do this, there would not be the situation where English taxpayers pay for the Scots and Welsh to have access to services that the English cannot afford.

On the issue of the West Lothian question, a federal UK is infeasible. Since around 80 per cent of the UK is England, the federation would be so unbalances it would never last and the whole think would probably fall apart quite quickly. The only solution would be to split England into regions, which brings a plethora of problems with it (not least how to draw up the regions and whether the English want to be split up).

However, I think a lot of the current frustration with devolution would dissipate if the funding situation was fairer. The Barnett formula should be awarded per person across the UK to fund UK wide government schemes, and the devolved governments should be granted tax raising powers to fund their own extra schemes (i.e., free tuition, free prescriptions, child care, care for the elderly, etc.). The Scottish Parliament already has tax raising powers (unused), though the Welsh Assembly would need further powers. Once the money is fairer, the constitutional imbalances would be far less emotive - think how many worry about the semi-autonomy of Stormont.

Ultimately, devolution was a error that was only ever granted because of the usual political situation of the late 1970s and the blackmail of nationalists. However, reversing it would be terrifically difficult meaning that we have to deal with what we have.

Out of interest, where in the world are you thinking that you can emigrate to that is run any differently?Who said my reasons for emigration had anything to do with government. The UK is too dark in winter and too cold all of the time. But anyway, there are plenty of the places in the world that are run differently from the archaic morass that is UK government. You get differences in whether a country is democratic or not, how centralised or localised government is, whether a democracy is parliamentary or presidential in form and so on, how votes are counted in a democracy. Plenty of different ways to run a country.

Euroskeptic! Up high!

I want a federal constitution, and more than just at the national level. I think counties/council areas are a better size (mostly because I am from Edinburgh and no Glaswegian runs my city!). I want out of the EU more. I would accept federalism, centralism, the status quo, and if EU control tightens even temporary Scottish independance: anything to get away from Brussels.

Brit, Unionist, Monarchist. My ordered priorities.I'm not actually a Euroskeptic. Nor do I care who holds power, just so long as they run the place well.

I believe the amalgamation of Europe is inevitable. People have become too dependent on the many benefits that the EU has brought to be able to seriously back out.

Who said my reasons for emigration had anything to do with government. The UK is too dark in winter and too cold all of the time. But anyway, there are plenty of the places in the world that are run differently from the archaic morass that is UK government. You get differences in whether a country is democratic or not, how centralised or localised government is, whether a democracy is parliamentary or presidential in form and so on, how votes are counted in a democracy. Plenty of different ways to run a country.
My apologies. I assumed that since you stated that you "couldn't care less for two reasons", and that those two reasons were i) that there was a high chance that you'd be emigrating and ii) an expression of discontent with the encroachment of (EU) bureaucracy, they were connected.

My bad, as they say.

My apologies. I assumed that since you stated that you "couldn't care less for two reasons", and that those two reasons were i) that there was a high chance that you'd be emigrating and ii) an expression of discontent with the encroachment of (EU) bureaucracy, they were connected.

My bad, as they say.Ah, no problem. I can see how that was a bit confusing. My second reason was a bit more facetious - for Scotland to gain independence only to be engulfed by an EU superstate. I'd make me smile if not laugh at the inherent humour.

A federation, please. That way everyone reaps the benefits of Scottish oil, British and Welsh coal, factories and decent farmland, and erm there's Northern Ireland too, because we haven't found anything much to do with it yet.

Remain as it is, but abandon all tiny smidgeons of nationalism in any form and start doing what's best for the world, not us.
Oh, and shut the damned whiners up!

I think that the Englanders need to grow up and realize that they're not the English language, but a people living in a certain land.

Except we don't have any oil left, and all the factories and pits were closed.:p
Lies and foreign propaganda.

We have loads of oil left, we just keep sending it elsewhere, and have somehow become net importers (*sighs in the direction of those who drive Chelsea Tractors*). Quite a few factories left, especially armaments, and the pits are still full of coal.

Since it's about to become expensive and useful again, England and Wales are about to become rich again, woohoo.

A federation, please. That way everyone reaps the benefits of Scottish oil, British and Welsh coal, factories and decent farmland, and erm there's Northern Ireland too, because we haven't found anything much to do with it yet.
Except we don't have any oil left, and all the factories and pits were closed.:p

Lies and foreign propaganda.

We have loads of oil left, we just keep sending it elsewhere, and have somehow become net importers (*sighs in the direction of those who drive Chelsea Tractors*). Quite a few factories left, especially armaments, and the pits are still full of coal.

Since it's about to become expensive and useful again, England and Wales are about to become rich again, woohoo.

British coal sucks. Too high in sulphur. Rather cheap coal. Once FGD really takes off properly, then we get rich.

Thanks to Brown, we're now going to meet our CO2 targets by building coal power plants. Imported from the other side of the globe, no doubt, when there's plenty beneath our feet. There's plenty, but I seriously doubt they'll be opened any time soon.

Perhaps I'm getting too cynical in my old age.

Carbon Capture, Gasification, and FGD. Once the FGD is widespread, we can use British coal. Otherwise, stuff like Daw Mill will drag us way and beyond the sulphur levels allowed by the LDP - we're pretty much stuck importing it.

Lies and foreign propaganda.
It's the Montenegrins putting out rumous again, isn't it?

We have loads of oil left, we just keep sending it elsewhere, and have somehow become net importers (*sighs in the direction of those who drive Chelsea Tractors*).
North Sea Oil is running out pretty fast, and as much as I'd love to blame all the Chelsea Tractor drivers, it's too light to use as petrol, and most is cracked in to gas, if I remember rightly.

[QUOTE=Yootopia;13341638]Quite a few factories left, especially armaments, and the pits are still full of coal.

Since it's about to become expensive and useful again, England and Wales are about to become rich again, woohoo.
Thanks to Brown, we're now going to meet our CO2 targets by building coal power plants. Imported from the other side of the globe, no doubt, when there's plenty beneath our feet. There's plenty, but I seriously doubt they'll be opened any time soon.

Perhaps I'm getting too cynical in my old age.

British coal sucks. Too high in sulphur. Rather cheap coal. Once FGD really takes off properly, then we get rich.
The sulphur isn't really a problem, seeing as lining a chimney with limestone is a cheap and effective way to sort that out.

And it's sure as hell better than the Chinese stuff, German "Braunkohle" (Lignite is our term IIRC), which is utter pish, and since we've got the best stuff in Europe and the whole Channel Tunnel thing going on to freight it about, fun times for us ahoy.

The sulphur isn't really a problem, seeing as lining a chimney with limestone is a cheap and effective way to sort that out.

And it's sure as hell better than the Chinese stuff, German "Braunkohle" (Lignite is our term IIRC), which is utter pish, and since we've got the best stuff in Europe and the whole Channel Tunnel thing going on to freight it about, fun times for us ahoy.

Russian Taldinsky. Taezhny. Zarachnaya. Australian Jellinbah isn't too bad, but tends to segregate after milling, resulting in a bit of trouble for us analysis folk. Far better coals - relatively low-sulphur semi-anthracites, judging by their look alone.

As for lining a chimney...not that simple I'm afraid. Wet scrubbing is what I believe we usually use, using a limestone slurry - but everything has to be cooled first to prevent thermal decomp., and some require pressurisation for decent efficiency.

I think split COUNTRIES (we are not in fookin America here pal...so whats with the state option?)

state

• noun 1 the condition of someone or something at a particular time. 2 a nation or territory considered as an organized political community under one government. 3 a community or area forming part of a federal republic. 4 (the States) the United States of America. 5 the civil government of a country. 6 pomp and ceremony associated with monarchy or government. 7 (a state) informal an agitated, disorderly, or dirty condition.

Although I'm an American, I feel England won't be England anymore if it's not a kingdom. Of course, if the English people don't want the kingdom, that's not them anymore anyways.
I hate to be the one to tell you, but the Kingdom of England ceased to be in 1707 when it merged into the Kingdom of Great Britain.

state

• noun 1 the condition of someone or something at a particular time. 2 a nation or territory considered as an organized political community under one government. 3 a community or area forming part of a federal republic. 4 (the States) the United States of America. 5 the civil government of a country. 6 pomp and ceremony associated with monarchy or government. 7 (a state) informal an agitated, disorderly, or dirty condition.

yeah where did you get that from? A fookin American dictionary?

I prefer to look at our home nations as more than mere states thankyou kindly :upyours:

yeah where did you get that from? A fookin American dictionary?

I prefer to look at our home nations as more than mere states thankyou kindly

Erm, chill?

He only means 'State' in the defined political way, not in a denigrating or (somehow) insulting way.

For example, the Kurds have a nation but no State. Groups or peoples form nations. A State is really the next step beyond a nation.

yeah where did you get that from? A fookin American dictionary?

I prefer to look at our home nations as more than mere states thankyou kindly :upyours:
Chill, man. He was merely trying to help out. "State" is a technical term for this sort of thing, anyways.

Sorry guys...cant help it...Im Beeker...and im hardly the shy and retiring wallflower type ;)