NationStates Jolt Archive

If rent-seeking, rational ignorance, iron triangles, the role of misinformation in politics, the basic laws of self-interest and economics, etc. are any indicator, there isn't very much, if anything at all, to stop politicians from abusing their privileges or to keep the kind of people that would abuse their powers from seeking office. With the almost obsessive media coverage of the preparation for the preparation of the campaign leading up to the Presidential Election (absurd, isn't it?), I feel that the current slew of candidates confirm my suspicions. I know that my punching a hole in a piece of paper come November won't make any difference, and so I am contemplating what pleasant alternatives I could pursue come Election Day. (Sleeping through the whole day is number one right now.)

So I ask, Generalites; how many of you will bother to vote, and if not, why not, and what will you do to kill time instead?

I will vote for the Libertarian candidate on Election Day. I don't care if idiots do think I'm "throwing away" my vote, I'm voting for the candidate that I most identify with, and that's whoever running on the Libertarian Ticket.

I vote all the time. It gives me the right to bitch about people throwing the vote away. :D

Venndee, normally your blatant disregard for reality and utter idiocy sickens me.

Right now, however, all I feel like doing is saying "Yes, I vote."

I vote all the time. It gives me the right to bitch about people throwing the vote away. :D

If Wilgrove is throwing his vote away, then I'm too lazy to walk over to the garbage bin to dispose of it.

Mr. Forrest, you should come with me and my associates, we would like....a word with you.
]

No. For the love of fuck, no. Seriously, Wilgrove, get over the Matrix crap.

I vote all the time. It gives me the right to bitch about people throwing the vote away. :D

Mr. Forrest, you should come with me and my associates, we would like....a word with you.

I'm voting 3rd party this election...

...granted I'm not quite sure which 3rd party yet...but I sure as hell am not voting for any of the candidates being paraded before me by the Dems or Repubs.

Not one strikes me as the sort I want to lead this nation right now...so I'll throw my vote away until I have an option that doesn't suck ass.

I always manage to find someone to vote for. Maybe Ralph Nader will run again. He's the only Vulcan in politics. :)

I always manage to find someone to vote for. Maybe Ralph Nader will run again. He's the only Vulcan in politics. :)

I'm completely spacing who he is at the moment. Is he the social conservative that wants to screw things up horribly?

I will probably be voting Libertarian. Insane, you say? Not so. If Republicans and Democrats feel enough of a third-party pressure then they may change for the better.

It is not throwing your vote away to vote for someone who will probably lose.

I'm completely spacing who he is at the moment. Is he the social conservative that wants to screw things up horribly?

No, he's the guy who wrote Unsafe At Any Speed.

I'm completely spacing who he is at the moment. Is he the social conservative that wants to screw things up horribly?

No, he's the social liberal that wants to screw things over horribly. :p

His biggest contribution has been in the field of consumer protection and advocacy. His biggest detriment is his role in the Age of Lawsuits we are mired in.

He's the most dull, uninteresting, ethical candidate you could ever hope for. *nod*

Venndee, normally your blatant disregard for reality and utter idiocy sickens me.

Your ad-hominem attack warms my cynical little heart. :)

It's a privilege -- of course I will vote. You know the old saying -- if you don't vote you get the government you didn't vote for.

And we liberals have lots of good choices...feel sorry for conservatives as they have slim pickings this time around.

It's a privilege -- of course I will vote. You know the old saying -- if you don't vote you get the government you didn't vote for.

If you don't vote, you deserve to get whatever comes because you didn't take a part in the electoral process.

If you vote against the winner, you shouldn't complain because the will of the people has spoken and we need solidarity.

If you voted for the winner and he doesn't do what you want, you should support him anyway because it shows he has 'principles.'

It really doesn't work out well any way, now does it?

The current system is simply an extension of the 'dictatorship of the bourgeois', so therefore it exists purely the protect and uphold the interests of that class and to repress the proletariat.

No, he's the social liberal that wants to screw things over horribly. :p

His biggest contribution has been in the field of consumer protection and advocacy. His biggest detriment is his role in the Age of Lawsuits we are mired in.

He's the most dull, uninteresting, ethical candidate you could ever hope for. *nod*
Ah.

So why does the Modern Day Scenario mod for Hearts of Iron II have him as a Social Conservative? It confused the hell out of me.

And you probably have no idea what I'm talking about.
Your ad-hominem attack warms my cynical little heart. :)
:)

Absolutely not. Until there is a realist candidate, I'll refuse to vote for anyone in this political system.

Just looking at the DNC and RNC candidates is about as strong an argument for a realist dictatorship that you can make.

I've become quite disenchanted with Democracy as of late...

*snip*
So I ask, Generalites; how many of you will bother to vote, and if not, why not, and what will you do to kill time instead?
I don't think I'll vote for the sole reason that none of the candidates could possibly do a better job than George W. Bush.:headbang:

Absolutely not. Until there is a realist candidate, I'll refuse to vote for anyone in this political system.

Just looking at the DNC and RNC candidates is about as strong an argument for a realist dictatorship that you can make.

I think we can safely discount your opinion given your support for genocide and blatant disregard for human rights.

Ah.

So why does the Modern Day Scenario mod for Hearts of Iron II have him as a Social Conservative? It confused the hell out of me.

And you probably have no idea what I'm talking about.

:)

Well, let me put it this way: He's pro gay marriage, pro legalizing certain drugs, pro-choice.... etc. *nod*

Well, let me put it this way: He's pro gay marriage, pro legalizing certain drugs, pro-choice.... etc. *nod*
Then someone made a huge mistake...

Kyronea, realism isn't about political correctness and settling things from a position of equality or weakness.

And as for my support of genocide, I can't imagine what you mean. I've never said I supported genocide, I simply don't judge any civilization in the past for doing what everyone else does to a larger degree because they have the capability to do. Or label any wars of conquest as genocide, because they are not.

And as for human rights, I support torturing terrorists and assassinating political enemies instead of wasteful wars, yes, but I am about as socially liberal on domestic human rights as you can get.

I'm voting for Barack Obama. He's a candidate I actually like. If I didn't vote for him, I'd be a rather horrible campaign volunteer, too.

Kyronea, realism isn't about political correctness and settling things from a position of equality or weakness.

And as for my support of genocide, I can't imagine what you mean. I've never said I supported genocide, I simply don't judge any civilization in the past for doing what everyone else does to a larger degree because they have the capability to do. Or label any wars of conquest as genocide, because they are not.

And as for human rights, I support torturing terrorists and assassinating political enemies instead of wasteful wars, yes, but I am about as socially liberal on domestic human rights as you can get.
As I said, support for genocide and blatant disregard of human rights.

I don't like any of the candidates at all. Who then should I vote for if it's my duty to do so?

Obama.

*nods*

I don't like any of the candidates at all. Who then should I vote for if it's my duty to do so?

I don't like any of the candidates at all. Who then should I vote for if it's my duty to do so?

Vote for Mr. Potato Head. *nod*

Did you know that he has more write-in votes than anyone else ever?

Yes, I will vote.

My initial vote will be for Dennis Kucinich, then in the november election, I will have to vote for whoever get the Dem ticket, as I rather have a Dem, any Dem, in office over a Republican.

We need a second round if no candidate recieve at least 50% in the first round, that way people would be less afraid of voting for a third party candidate.

I'll vote, just so I can say, "Well, *I* didn't vote for him" ;)

I'll vote, just so I can say, "Well, *I* didn't vote for him" ;)

The person who doesn't vote at all didn't vote for him/her either.

And we liberals have lots of good choices...feel sorry for conservatives as they have slim pickings this time around.

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/insane.gif

By pure virtue of being a politician they are a bad choice.

I will not being voting in the US elections due to the fact that I'm both underage and Canadian.

I'm not registered under any party affiliation, so most political parties in my state deny me the right to vote for their primary ballot. But I don't care because I wouldn't vote for any of them anyway. Thus, my ballot will only contain referenda/propositions and municipal/county/state candidates for any offices that might happen to be open.

I understand the frustration many people have with voting and "democracy," however, I'm more interested in fixing the problem instead of throwing the whole thing out. A broken down engine is a reason to call a mechanic, not to declare that internal combustion was a bad idea from the start.

I understand the frustration many people have with voting and "democracy," however, I'm more interested in fixing the problem instead of throwing the whole thing out. A broken down engine is a reason to call a mechanic, not to declare that internal combustion was a bad idea from the start.

I think that comparison is terribly unfair to broken-down engines. Broken-down engines could potentially work.

I don't like any of the candidates at all. Who then should I vote for if it's my duty to do so?

Who said it is your duty to vote for a cretin?

...the winner and he doesn't do what ... you should support him anywayNo thanks.
.
...the winner and he doesn't do what he promised ...he is shit, send him to hell.

No thanks.

But people still tell the losing side this anyway, through various means (i.e. "He's our President...")

he is shit, send him to hell.

But politicians do this all the time, and yet we are expected to applaud their 'prudence' in changing their opinion after the election. (Like Clinton reneging on his promises of middle class tax cuts because he 'realized' the budget deficit was worse than he 'thought.')

But politicians do this all the time, and yet we are expected to applaud ...thats why the politicians can get away with lies.. because we "expect" them to, because we forgive them and vote for the liars again.. and again.

just do NOT expect me to applaud.

And you shouldn't. But others will still expect you to.

But others will still expect you to.I am not going to meet their expectations.
tough luck.

US Politicians are going to keep lying to US, again and again, until we -the people- make them pay for it.

(##Fair play statement: this happens in other countries too)

Vote for me as president, because i know nothing of American politics and don't live there, yes vote me i'll make all your troubles dissappear with one pull of a trig-i mean oustanding leadership for all communities.

Vote for me as president, because i know nothing of American politics and don't live there, yes vote me i'll make all your troubles dissappear with one pull of a trig-i mean oustanding leadership for all communities.

Can you really be any worse than the competition?

Yes, I will be voting.

I will be spoiling my ballot however. Not that it will matter, as I'm in the UK anyway, so it'll never get counted. By voting like that I demonstrate that I'm not happy with the system and the choice of candidates it offers me, but that I am willing to take part --- otherwise it could be seen as apathy.

I will go out and cast my vote. NO to Hillary! NO to Obama! YES to anyone who will properly execute their oath of office:To support and protect the constitution of the United States and to defend the country against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic. If they are Pro 2nd Amendment, I`ll stuff the box for them.

Can you really be any worse than the competition?

Is that a dare? I could try to be worse, i could copy Margaret Thatcher,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Thatcher
A monster of a PM and completely batty, she also said "there is no society". Whoah i'm beginning to scare myself, and no i didn't look in the mirror again, that's sacry too.

Is that a dare? I could try to be worse, i could copy Margaret Thatcher,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Thatcher
A monster of a PM and completely batty, she also said "there is no society". Whoah i'm beginning to scare myself, and no i didn't look in the mirror again, that's sacry too.

Surely can't be as bad as Tony Blair.

Surely can't be as bad as Tony Blair.

We have ways of making you talk............

Yes, of course I will be voting

No, he's the guy who wrote Unsafe At Any Speed.

Ralph Nader was the environmentalist candidate who insured that the man who would win the Nobel Peace Prize for his environmentalism seven years later would not become the President of the United States.

I encourage everyone to vote. The situation the OP describes can only occur if people aren't democratically active. Apathy and cynicism only help this charade.
Of course, there are limits are to who you can vote for. See my signature for an example.

I encourage everyone to vote. The situation the OP describes can only occur if people aren't democratically active. Apathy and cynicism only help this charade.

A 90% turnout rate sure didn't stop the Gilded Age Republicans from slaughtering the Plain Indians to steal their land, granting extravagant subsidies to railroads, giving special privileges to banks to back out of their contracts, divvying up the plunder to give to 'veterans' of the Civil War, menacing foreign nations, etc. etc. etc. And we sure as hell aren't going to be able to get that many people voting any time soon.

A 90% turnout rate sure didn't stop the Gilded Age Republicans from slaughtering the Plain Indians to steal their land, granting extravagant subsidies to railroads, giving special privileges to banks to back out of their contracts, divvying up the plunder to give to 'veterans' of the Civil War, menacing foreign nations, etc. etc. etc. And we sure as hell aren't going to be able to get that many people voting any time soon.

That's because the 90% voting didn't care about the Plain Indians, menacing foreign nations, or even giving extravagant subsidies to railroads. I'm not saying that more people voting means the country is more likely to do the good thing; however, it is more likely to do the more popular thing. If you vote, it is more likely that your views will become policy.

Also, voting is not the only way one can become politically involved. I hate to sound like one of the stupid public service announcements, but canvassing, talking with candidates, etc., does have a real (if small) impact. The party system in the US has its drawbacks, but it does allow for more individuals to choose their leaders.

Finally, there's always terrorism. I'm not advocating it, but it's a lot more effective than sleeping in on Election Day.

It's a privilege -- of course I will vote. You know the old saying -- if you don't vote you get the government you didn't vote for.

I can still vote 3rd party and not get the government I voted for.

If rent-seeking, rational ignorance, iron triangles, the role of misinformation in politics, the basic laws of self-interest and economics, etc. are any indicator, there isn't very much, if anything at all, to stop politicians from abusing their privileges or to keep the kind of people that would abuse their powers from seeking office.

Remember kids, Politicians are People too!

Adopt a candidate today!

I will vote. No vote is wasted. If nothing else, a high voter turnout (no matter who they voted for) sends a message that the electorate is paying attention and they do care what happens.

That's because the 90% voting didn't care about the Plain Indians, menacing foreign nations, or even giving extravagant subsidies to railroads. I'm not saying that more people voting means the country is more likely to do the good thing; however, it is more likely to do the more popular thing. If you vote, it is more likely that your views will become policy.

I hate to tell you, but what the popular thing is is easily influenced if you can have a political machine, seeing as how mankind has an inherent inclination to conformity and vulnerability to fear-mongering (due to present-orientation.)

I hate to tell you, but what the popular thing is is easily influenced if you can have a political machine, seeing as how mankind has an inherent inclination to conformity and vulnerability to fear-mongering (due to present-orientation.)

Which means we should give up hope right now.
Throw down our arms.
They take our lives, our money, and our Freedom!

In fact, there is no reason left to live.
*hands out Kool-aids*

Yes, they are the little drink mix packets, stir them into water yourself you emo freaks.

I will vote for the Libertarian candidate on Election Day. I don't care if idiots do think I'm "throwing away" my vote, I'm voting for the candidate that I most identify with, and that's whoever running on the Libertarian Ticket.

The only vote thrown away is a vote not used.

Everyone should vote, if eligible, at least for a third party. Every little bit helps. I finally get to vote this election and will find someone to vote for if the top two parties don't satisfy me.

If rent-seeking, rational ignorance, iron triangles, the role of misinformation in politics, the basic laws of self-interest and economics, etc. are any indicator, there isn't very much, if anything at all, to stop politicians from abusing their privileges or to keep the kind of people that would abuse their powers from seeking office. With the almost obsessive media coverage of the preparation for the preparation of the campaign leading up to the Presidential Election (absurd, isn't it?), I feel that the current slew of candidates confirm my suspicions. I know that my punching a hole in a piece of paper come November won't make any difference, and so I am contemplating what pleasant alternatives I could pursue come Election Day. (Sleeping through the whole day is number one right now.)

So I ask, Generalites; how many of you will bother to vote, and if not, why not, and what will you do to kill time instead?
Don't throw your vote away by not voting. Write-in someone if EVERYONE sucks. Write in "They Allsuck" or "God" or "Osama bin Laden". Anyone!

Which means we should give up hope right now.
Throw down our arms.
They take our lives, our money, and our Freedom!

In fact, there is no reason left to live.
*hands out Kool-aids*

Yes, they are the little drink mix packets, stir them into water yourself you emo freaks.

Ah, no. I'd probably recommend making it impossible for a political machine to form in the first place. But thanks for the ad-hominem anyway.

I vote in every election they allow me to. Too many have died for freedom and democracy to not fulfill your civic duty. Of course you need to pay attention to things to make a good choice. For those of you who vote for someone you know are going to lose... that's your right! Everyone should vote for who they like the best. Elect-ability is not a word that means very much to me. AS long as the elections are fair then so be it.

Yes, I will vote. Voting isn't the only way or the best way of achieving change in democratic systems, but it is one way to do so.

Ah, no. I'd probably recommend making it impossible for a political machine to form in the first place. But thanks for the ad-hominem anyway.

Anarchy? Revolution?

I'm not seeing the ad-hominem, but you're welcome.

Anarchy? Revolution?

I'm not seeing the ad-hominem, but you're welcome.

I don't like revolution; revolution results from those who desire power liquidating weak rulers and other obstacles in their ways (that is why Henry VIII, Peter I and Louis XIV are praised while Charles I, Louis XVI and Nicholas II end up in various shades of dead.) I am an anarchist, though, and I prefer secession as this would allow for a polycentric system of reciprocity.

And the ad-hominem is calling me an 'emo', BTW. I do think I'm part of the school of liberalisme triste, but that is because I am rather cynical of the motives of those in power; emos like to write crappy poetry and slash their wrists. :)

I don't like revolution; revolution results from those who desire power liquidating weak rulers and other obstacles in their ways (that is why Henry VIII, Peter I and Louis XIV are praised while Charles I, Louis XVI and Nicholas II end up in various shades of dead.) I am an anarchist, though, and I prefer secession as this would allow for a polycentric system of reciprocity.
Ah...
And the ad-hominem is calling me an 'emo', BTW. I do think I'm part of the school of liberalisme triste, but that is because I am rather cynical of the motives of those in power; emos like to write crappy poetry and slash their wrists. :)
The 'emo' comment was only directed towards the people who took some of the Kool-Aid drink mix from me. Unless you are one of those doomed souls, I wasn't referring to you.

I am voting for the lesser of two evils, like always.

I'll vote, almost certainly for a mainstream candidate. Right now, I favor McCain - his views are similar to mine.

I don't think voting for a third-party candidate is "throwing your vote away". If you think that someone should be President, vote for them.

Much as I disagree with and utterly despise Emma Goldman, she did say one thing I completely agree with: "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal."

No matter how you vote, the outcome is foreordained: More welfare, more statism, more war, more imperialism.

Its your civic duty to vote. Voting is part of your basic freedoms and you should be privilidged to do it. There are three things you have to do keep them. Pay taxes, serve jury duty, and vote. Plenty of people in the world would be happy to vote. If you don't like any of the candidate, what can I tell you. Vote for on of those people you never heard of from that party that you never heard of or at least never wins. Like the green party or that one on the verge of communism. Or vote or the lesser of two eveils lets say for arguments sake its Chriss Dodd and Ron Paul and you don't like either but theres no third party vote for who you like just a little more or the opponent of the one you really hate. Hate Paul vote Dodd. Hate both but like Paul a little better, vote Paul.

Then again the electoral college crushes all of that.