NationStates Jolt Archive

23 hours ago PHOENIX, Arizona (AFP) — New laws targeting employers who hire illegal immigrants take effect here on January 1, with experts predicting the move may cost the state's economy billions of dollars in lost income and taxes.
...
Judith Gans, a University of Arizona immigration policy expert who has studied the economic impact of illegal immigrants, said the new law will have a dramatic effect on the local economy.

"Industries will shrink and prices will go up," Gans told AFP

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g1fu5CL0hHcw1r1EbjbZpCU5XREAWell, if I was a Mexican, I would avoid Arizona too.

I mean why -the hell- would a Mexican want to work in Arizona now?

As ever, I have a relevant pic
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/TheSteveslols/Mexican.jpg

As ever, I have a relevant pic
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/TheSteveslols/Mexican.jpg

Exactly. *nod*

I have a funny feeling it will be a difficult sell to convince the blacks to go back into the fields. :p

Exactly. *nod*

I have a funny feeling it will be a difficult sell to convince the blacks to go back into the fields. :p

I thought you were a taco man, not a burrito man.

I thought you were a taco man, not a burrito man.

Whoa, let's not be racist here. All good foods are represented equally.

I thought you were a taco man, not a burrito man.

Let not my adoration of the perfection that is the taco in any way take anything away from the marvel of architecture that is the burrito. As another longtime poster here would say, "Everything tastes better in burrito form".


I have yet to figure out how to make a taco burrito. :(

Let not my adoration of the perfection that is the taco in any way take anything away from the marvel of architecture that is the burrito. As another longtime poster here would say, "Everything tastes better in burrito form".

Ooooh. I see. You like one team but you'll play for the other too anytime, huh?

I have yet to figure out how to make a taco burrito. :(
Well that should be easy. Take a taco shell, place a burrito inside the shell, and then place the taco fillings on top of the burrito and heat it a bit to make sure the fillings don't go everywhere when you try to eat it, and enjoy.

I have yet to figure out how to make a taco burrito. :(

One would first have to analyze the separate parts which make a taco a taco and a burrito a burrito.
If it is merely the filling, the procedure should be simple. If however the taco is granted its place of palatable power by the tough exterior shell, it may prove a difficult endeavor indeed.

Whoa, let's not be racist here. All good foods are represented equally.

Send the illegal burritoes back. If we needed cheap food, we'd get rid of minimum wage. Know why illegals get so much work? Minimum wage. Would you pay someone about 6 or 7 dollars an hour when you can pay a burrito 2 dollars? That's why the bananas and cheeses are upset. The fruits and dairies HAVE to be paid over a certain amount while the burritos can afford to lower their prices.

Let not my adoration of the perfection that is the taco in any way take anything away from the marvel of architecture that is the burrito. As another longtime poster here would say, "Everything tastes better in burrito form".


I have yet to figure out how to make a taco burrito. :(
I would'a said it all tastes better enchilada-style, but no one asked...

Anyway, good on Arizona. I doubt very much that we will see crops rot in the fields, houses unbuilt, or avenues lined with empty fast food franchises. We'll just have to pay more for whatever is grown and made in Arizona. Kind of like we did BEFORE we had to hire scads of illegal residents to do our labor. Gee, cut your own grass? What a shame -- that's what the kid down the block should be doing...

Considering Arizona has (for some ungodly reason) the fastest growing population in the US, and thats LEGAL population just so ya know, I dont think they're going to have a labor issue.
Wal-Mart having to actually pay minimum wage is a GOOD thing in my books.

As ever, I have a relevant pic
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/TheSteveslols/Mexican.jpg

LOL, nice

Considering Arizona has (for some ungodly reason) the fastest growing population in the US, and thats LEGAL population just so ya know, I dont think they're going to have a labor issue.I dont know, can newborns pick lettuces?

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g1fu5CL0hHcw1r1EbjbZpCU5XREA

59 percent of the workforce in farming;
27 percent in construction;
51 percent in landscaping;
26 percent in hotel work;
23 percent in restaurants;
33 percent in private homes; and
46 percent in textile manufacturing.

Out of every six non-citizens in Arizona, five are illegal, according to Gans. Her study indicates the net 2004 fiscal impact of Arizona illegals was positive by about 940 million dollars, when balanced against costs of 1.4 billion dollars for education, health care, and law enforcement.

I dont know, can newborns pick lettuces?

That's not the point! They are stealing the jobs that newborns don't want away from the newborns that don't want em! :p

That's not the point! They are stealing the jobs that ...well.. they are going to stop stealing now.. prosperity awaits Arizona. :D

well.. they are going to stop stealing now.. prosperity awaits Arizona. :D

Absolutely. Happy days are here again! :)

with all these new displaced Mexicans maybe we can get one living in the white house :p

SNIP

are you suggesting we grind up Mexican teenagers into gooey burrito filling?

Well, if I was a Mexican, I would avoid Arizona too.

I mean why -the hell- would a Mexican want to work in Arizona now?

Good. this will be a great experiment to see if America will collapse if all Illegal Immigrants were removed from the work force.

also, it will see if Illegals are really "stealing jobs" and "contributing to the crime rate".

My prediction... the Arizona economy will stumble but it will recover.

. Gee, cut your own grass? What a shame -- that's what the kid down the block should be doing...

I use to run a lawn business as a teenager. From about 12-16. Bought my first car and paid for my first date with lawn proceeds. I made as much as some of the regular folks working after school and weekends. All under the table and no taxes.

Anyway I welcome the move. This will prove that our nation can once again pick our own fruits and vegetables.

with all these new displaced Mexicans maybe we can get one living in the white house :p

Shouldn't be a problem there are plenty of Casa Blancas in Mexico.



are you suggesting we grind up Mexican teenagers into gooey burrito filling?

You mean to tell me that it wasn't mexican teenagers before?


Edit: One good thing if most of the illegals went home they can fix their damn country. This may be a big benefit for Mexico.

A more pressing question is why would anyone want to work in Arizona?

It has good weather.

Anyway I welcome the move. This will prove that our nation can once again pick our own fruits and vegetables.

surely you mean huge mechanized farms will surpass the output of Mexicans in a third the land area?

western culture FTW!

Well, if I was a Mexican, I would avoid Arizona too.

I mean why -the hell- would a Mexican want to work in Arizona now?

A more pressing question is why would anyone want to work in Arizona?

It has good weather.

If you're a turkey vulture.

One good thing if most of the illegals went home they can fix their damn country. This may be a big benefit for Mexico.

now thats the spirit! if you send enough men in something good is bound to get done, thats how we gave the Kaiser a good thrashing ;)

legal Mexicans perhaps?

Yay for Arizona. Arizona is now on my list of "States that I like!" :D

One good thing if most of the illegals went home they can fix their damn country. This may be a big benefit for Mexico.

I sincerely hope so...though time will tell.

Well that should be easy. Take a taco shell, place a burrito inside the shell, and then place the taco fillings on top of the burrito and heat it a bit to make sure the fillings don't go everywhere when you try to eat it, and enjoy.

Tacos are not mollusks and lack shells. Tacos are delicious seasoned meat in a soft tortilla. Those things in a deep fried corn chip? Abominations and nothing more. ;)

This may be a big benefit for Mexico.or most likely the other states..

"If we can't find labor here at a reasonable cost to business, businesses can simply move their business elsewhere," McLaren said. "We may see the cost of having to import stuff."

One Arizona grower recently decided to buy a farm in Iowa instead of investing in his Arizona operations, said Joe Sigg, director of government relations for the Arizona Farm Bureau.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g1fu5CL0hHcw1r1EbjbZpCU5XREA

Let not my adoration of the perfection that is the taco in any way take anything away from the marvel of architecture that is the burrito. As another longtime poster here would say, "Everything tastes better in burrito form".


I have yet to figure out how to make a taco burrito. :(

Ah. The great tacurrito question. I would take your standard soft taco and expand the size of the tortilla to burrito size. I would put a smear of refried beans on the tortilla then, since I particularly like chicken tacos, I would put a liberal layer of shredded chicken over that along with queso jalisco, chopped olives, and a soupcon of rice. A quick run under the broiler to melt the queso, then top with lettuce, tomatoes, chopped onions, sour cream, avocado and fold - behold - a tacurrito!

Well, if I was a Mexican, I would avoid Arizona too.

I mean why -the hell- would a Mexican want to work in Arizona now?

I dont understand your point. The article you linked to talks about punishments for the people that HIRE illegals. It has no effect whatsoever on immigrants themselves so i dont understand why they would really care one way or the other. I mean it may drop by a few % the number of jobs availible, but i dont see Mexicans as a whole avoiding the place, certainly not for this insignificant law that wont be enforced any more then any of the other immigration laws.

WHAT??????!!!!! From the OPs article...Agriculture is expected to be among the industries hardest hit by the new law. Yuma needs about 50,000 pickers during lettuce harvest. Only half that number lives on the American side of the border. Pickers now earn 12 to 14 dollars per hour, said Dawn McLaren, an Arizona State University research economist.

MEXICAN FRUITPICKERS are making 14 dollars an HOUR? People with college degrees AND citizenship arnt making that around here. I was always under the impression fruit picking Mexicans were making minimum wage or even below. ARE you KIDDING me?

Ah. The great tacurrito question. I would take your standard soft taco and expand the size of the tortilla to burrito size. I would put a smear of refried beans on the tortilla then, since I particularly like chicken tacos, I would put a liberal layer of shredded chicken over that along with queso jalisco, chopped olives, and a soupcon of rice. A quick run under the broiler to melt the queso, then top with lettuce, tomatoes, chopped onions, sour cream, avocado and fold - behold - a tacurrito!

*drools*

...but i dont see Mexicans as a whole avoiding the place, certainly not for this insignificant law that wont be enforced any more then any of the other immigration laws.I see.

The Mexicans come because they want to work, If there is no work to do in Arizona.. they will go to California.. or Iowa.. or any of the other 50 states.

MEXICAN FRUITPICKERS are making 14 dollars an HOUR? People with college degrees AND citizenship arnt making that around here. I was always under the impression fruit picking Mexicans were making minimum wage or even below. ARE you KIDDING me?

I can make 20 dollars an hour where I live, without a degree.

It isn't in the US, granted, but as long as I earn less than 15-20k dollars, I don't pay a lot of taxes on them.

I see.

The Mexicans come because they want to work, If there is no work to do in Arizona.. they will go to California.. or Iowa.. or any of the other 50 states.

I have news for you, the work needed to be done in Arizona isnt going anywhere despite the idle musings of a handful of farmers that have visions of Iowa dancing in thier heads. And if you think yet another immigration law in a long line of other ineffective immigration laws is going to make an entire states industry uproot and go elsewhere, well lets put it this way i wouldnt start packing my bags any time soon.

I have news for you, the work needed to be done in Arizona isnt going anywhere despite the idle musings of a handful of farmers that have visions of Iowa dancing in thier heads. And if you think yet another immigration law in a long line of other ineffective immigration laws is going to make an entire states industry uproot and go elsewhere...I dont think the -the whole- industry of Arizona is going to Iowa or California..

but the Mexicans certainly are going. ;)

I dont think the -the whole- industry of Arizona is going to Iowa or California..

but the Mexicans certainly are going. ;)

The legal ones will still be there. Let the illegals go somewhere else. Other states and or the Feds will probably realize this works and implement it elsewhere.

Let not my adoration of the perfection that is the taco in any way take anything away from the marvel of architecture that is the burrito. As another longtime poster here would say, "Everything tastes better in burrito form".


I have yet to figure out how to make a taco burrito. :(My understanding was that a taco is made from maize flour and a burrito from wheat flour... and that's all. Maybe the burrito is folded a little more too. One of my friends said that burritos are also refered to as Taco de Harina in Mexico (taco of flour)...

i r confused... what was the question again?

The legal ones will still be there. Let the illegals go somewhere else. Other states and or the Feds will probably realize this works and implement it elsewhere.

It has to work first.

It has to work first.

True.

My understanding was that a taco is made from maize flour and a burrito from wheat flour... and that's all. Maybe the burrito is folded a little more too. One of my friends said that burritos are also refered to as Taco de Harina in Mexico (taco of flour)...

i r confused... what was the question again?

Let's wiki it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taco

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burrito

Wiki seems to agree with your interpretation. *nod*

It has to work first.It is going to work.. the Mexicans are going to leave Arizona.

The vigilante groups are going to make it work, I am not worried. I think all of this is happening for the best.

Group Shuts Down Day Labor Center

December 31st, 2007 @ 7:49am
A group demanding a crackdown on illegal immigrants gathered before dawn today at a north Phoenix day laborers center, and shut it down on the eve of the day Arizona's new employers sanctions law takes effect.

The center's operator, Salvadore Reza, told the few days laborers who were there to go home. That triggered a shouting match between Reza and the demonstrators, led by a group called United for a Sovereign America.

He said his group would take pictures of anyone who picked up day laborers for work.

``We're going to photograph them and the photographs are all going to go to the sheriff's department and the county attorney's office for evidence," Galeener added.

It is going to work.. the Mexicans are going to leave Arizona.

The vigilante groups are going to make it work, I am not worried.

OH Thank GOD United for a Sovereign America is on the case why didnt you say so? Ive been saying for decades now, we just need these guys to fix our entire nations immigration problems. Ok guys nothing left here to see everyone go home problem has been solved.

It is going to work.. the Mexicans are going to leave Arizona.

The vigilante groups are going to make it work, I am not worried. I think this is going rather well.

Personally, I don't expect it to work. I expect that the law was most likely designed to be shot down by the courts like a similar law in Ohio(?). It makes the politicians look like they are trying and allows corporate interests to maintain the status quo. *nod*

OH Thank GOD United for a Sovereign America is on the case why didnt you say so? Ive been saying for decades now, we just need these guys to fix our entire nations immigration problems. their helping hands are on the Job as we speak. ;) [/sarcasm

their helping hands are on the Job as we speak. ;) [/sarcasm

Yea in the same way the little Dutch boy is helping out by sticking his pinky in the dam.

Yea in the same way the little Dutch boy is helping out by sticking his pinky in the dam.

It was a dike. He stuck his finger in a dike. Much to her chagrin. ;)

Personally, I don't expect it to work. I expect that the law was most likely designed to be shot down by the courts like a similar law in Ohio(?). It makes the politicians look like they are trying and allows corporate interests to maintain the status quo. *nod*...the law was most likely designed to be shot down by the courts like a similar law in Ohio(?). It makes the politicians look like they are trying and allows corporate interests to maintain the status quo. *nod*well, I am glad this Law was not shot down.


2008 is here.

talking time is over, now its doing time. For both sides of the ball.
and its pop corn time for me, may the best side win. ;)


BTW my money in on the Jags, they are going to run all over the Steelers. :D

It is going to work.. the Mexicans are going to leave Arizona.

The vigilante groups are going to make it work, I am not worried. I think all of this is happening for the best.
It's not really vigilantism though, it's more like a neighbourhood watch. If it's illegal to hire illegal immigrants then taking photographic evidence is not vigilantism, it's just legally helping the authorities enforce the law. Unless you can prove that they're going around dispensing summary justice then they ain't vigilantes.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how things go. Makes me think of when Britain introduced a minimum wage, you had opponents screaming about how it would be doomsday, massive job losses, ect. That didn't happen so I'm not too willing to believe what the doom merchants always say.

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13336226'] I'm not too willing to believe what the doom merchants always say.what are the doom merchants saying for Arizona? I haven't heard them yet.

I am sure Arizona can afford to lose a fraction of the farms.. and some textile business.
Life will go on.

what are the doom merchants saying for Arizona? I haven't heard them yet.

I am sure Arizona can afford to lose a fraction of the farms.. and some textile business.
Life will go on.
Well maybe not about Arizona, but from both Britain and America I've heard pro-immigration people witter on about how the economy will collapse without immigrant labour (Illegal as well as legal).

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13336251'].. from both Britain and America I've heard pro-immigration people witter on about how the economy will collapse without immigrant labour (Illegal as well as legal).I dont think it would collapse,

I would suffer, but not collapse.

Mexicans bring an economic boom to America, while the rest of developed countries (except Canada) decrease in population.

Well, if I was a Mexican, I would avoid Arizona too.

I mean why -the hell- would a Mexican want to work in Arizona now?

Good riddence.

Mexicans bring an economic boom to America, while the rest of developed countries (except Canada) decrease in population.Canada boasts an excellent Farm-workers program for Mexicans, they get fair living conditions and health care.

http://www.ufcw.ca/Theme/UFCW/files/PDF2007/StatusReportEN2007.pdf

I think the Arizona law is great. I don't mind paying a little more if I know that the employers use 100% legal labor.

I think the Arizona law is great. I don't mind paying a little more.It shouldn't really be that much more.

(Assuming you are from Arizona) The lettuce price you used to pay from your local farm, and the price you will pay next year from Iowa farms, should be almost the same.

Canada boasts an excellent Farm-workers program for Mexicans, they get fair living conditions and health care.

http://www.ufcw.ca/Theme/UFCW/files/PDF2007/StatusReportEN2007.pdf

good for them. If all the mexicans went to Canada it would be about a 50/50 ratio.

good for them. If all the mexicans went to Canada it would be about a 50/50 ratio.The Mexicans want to work, Canada does not have that many Farms and Textile Industries.

The Mexicans want to work, Canada does not have that many Farms and Textile Industries.
If they can't find work, can't they just collect unemployment from the Canadian government. I mean, don't illegal residents have rights, too?

If they can't find work, can't they just collect unemployment from the Canadian government. I mean, don't illegal residents have rights, too?No.

In most western Democracies:
in order to get unemployment you need to be a permanent resident. The Mexican Farm workers in Canada are on a fair system that gives them fair living conditions + Healthcare.. and if their current employer has to reduce the Payroll, it allows them to stay if they can find a similar Job. They may not be eligible for unemployment insurance, but they dont have to worry about crazy vigilantes going medieval on their asses

No.

In most western Democracies:
in order to get unemployment you need to be a permanent resident. The Mexican Farm workers in Canada are on a fair system that gives them fair living conditions + Healthcare.. and if their current employer has to reduce the Payroll, it allows them to stay if they can find a similar Job. They may not be eligible for unemployment insurance, but they dont have to worry about crazy vigilantes going medieval on their asses
But they are LEGAL residents of Canada, subject to certain predefined conditions. I don't think ANYONE has a problem with legal residents, in fact, I wish we could create a guest worker program that is along the lines of the H1B (http://www.immihelp.com/visas/h1b/h1b-visa-requirements.html)program, only for unskilled labor.

I wish we could create a guest worker program that is along the lines of...I wish too.

That is the whole point of my last 2 posts.

I wish we could have the decency to create a Healthcare program as good as Canada's.
I wish we could have the decency to create a migration program as good as Canada's.

BTW when I say they give them Healthcare, its just an example of the mentality they have in Canada.. We cant realistically offer Healthcare right now...
We cant offer Healthcare to the migrant farm workers, if we dont offer it first to our own low-income citizens.

I wish too.

That is the whole point of my last 2 posts.

I wish we could have the decency to create a Healthcare program as good as Canada's.
I wish we could have the decency to create a migration program as good as Canada's.

We cant offer healthcare to the migrant farm workers, if we dont offer it first to our own low-income citizens.
This is another argument, but we have health care superior to Canada. I think the airport TSA fiasco proved that Federalization doesn't necessarily mean professionalization or that just controlling something through the Federal government doesn't mean it will be better managed.

But, the argument here is immigration. The H1B program does require that the prevailing wage be paid to participants. I don't know what the prevailing wage is for pickers, but I'm sure a union would be happy to establish one. I do know that the prevailing wage for masons, carpenters, and other construction trades is far above what we currently pay illegal workers. Pay people enough and they can afford what they need.

we have health care superior to Canada.you are entitled to your opinion.

BTW, when I say a good healthcare program, I am speaking about taking care of all segments of society.

no children left behind, no low-income families left behind.

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13336251']Well maybe not about Arizona, but from both Britain and America I've heard pro-immigration people witter on about how the economy will collapse without immigrant labour (Illegal as well as legal).

No, the people fear-mongering are those attacking illegal immigration.

Here are some common fear mongering statements, and some responses (not great, but shitty logic somehow tends to degrade my responses as well).

"They're taking our jobs!" - It's not like you have a right to a job, we're not communists are we?

"They're murders and rapists!" - Yeah, and so are some citizens and legal immigrants.

"They're criminals for getting here illegally!" - Yeah, and so are the Founding Fathers for breaking British laws. Breaking a law doesn't make them evil.

"They're bringing in diseases!" - Oh noes, proof please?

"They're drug dealers!" - So maybe citizens should stop using them.

"They join gangs, and gangs are violent!" - Proof please? And anyways, citizens and legal immigrants join gangs too.

"Terrorists use the border to get in!" - Not a single hijacker on 9-11 came across the border. And again, need statistics to support idiotic claims.

"They're destroying our culture!" - I didn't know America was one homogenous solution.

And their fear mongering goes on and on, just like the Energizer Bunny.

[snipped]
well, now Arizona can put those fear mongering phrases to rest with this law.

we'll actually see if
1) their economy improves
2) their crime goes down
3) their unemployment goes down
4) their health issues goes down
etc..

I mean why -the hell- would a Mexican want to work in Arizona now?
For money?

no low-income families left behind.
How the hell are you going to run a country when everyone's rich enough to not want to do the shitty yet needed jobs, like anything involving waste management?

Robots?

How the hell are you going to run a country when everyone's rich enough to not want to do the shitty yet needed jobs, like anything involving waste management?

Robots?http://www.pldi.net/users/albase/Futurama-Bender-UpsideYourHead.jpg

Mexican Robots !!!
FTW :D

you are entitled to your opinion.

BTW, when I say a good healthcare program, I am speaking about taking care of all segments of society.

no children left behind, no low-income families left behind.
I'll be we, meaning taxpayers, could cover all those "poor, unfortunates" by just paying the costs to admit them to Medicare.

In fact, we'd probably save money, as compared to starting a brand new entitlement, if we just let them submit bills to the government and directly reimburse them for each and every medical cost that they incur.

We don't have to extend that courtesy to any illegal resident. And shouldn't.

I'll be we, meaning taxpayers, could cover all those "poor, unfortunates" by just paying the costs to admit them to Medicare.

In fact, we'd probably save money, as compared to starting a brand new entitlement, if we just let them submit bills to the government and directly reimburse them for each and every medical cost that they incur.Whatever all that means.
.

We don't have to extend that courtesy to any illegal resident. And shouldn't.read post #65

It'd be real cool if some people out there realized that there was a difference between the words legal and illegal. Let LEGAL immigrants stay and kick those who are unwilling to follow the law out.

It'd be real cool if some people out there realized that there was a difference between the words legal and illegal. Let LEGAL immigrants stay and kick those who are unwilling to follow the law out.

It'd be real cool if some people out there realized that lemon chocolate chip muffins are the greatest muffins ever. *nod*

It'd be real cool if some people out there realized that lemon chocolate chip muffins are the greatest muffins ever. *nod*Oooh those do sound good.

Oooh those do sound good.

Imperium, eh?
Tell me more, praytell?

Just the name of the "nation" for the game.....aaaand it sounded cool. So thats pretty much it. I do hope you weren't trying to be cynical and try to prove some point about this thread using a screen name to form the basis of an argument. But then again I could be reading into things. Or maybe I completely missed the point. It is almost four in the morning.

Just the name of the "nation" for the game.....aaaand it sounded cool. So thats pretty much it. I do hope you weren't trying to be cynical and try to prove some point about this thread using a screen name to form the basis of an argument. But then again I could be reading into things. Or maybe I completely missed the point. It is almost four in the morning.
Only thing to read is curiosity. I m'self am currently residing in Alaska, and i was a bit curious about it. Sure hope you didn't mean Sarah so much as the rest of the republican party, tis all.

Only thing to read is curiosity. I m'self am currently residing in Alaska, and i was a bit curious about it. Sure hope you didn't mean Sarah so much as the rest of the republican party, tis all.Ahhh NOW I get it haha. No, that wasn't it at all. I come from Kenai and it just sounded like a cool name. There is absolutely no meaning behind the name. lol

It'd be real cool if some people out there realized that lemon chocolate chip muffins are the greatest muffins ever. *nod*

But lemon flavoring ruins everything.

I see.

The Mexicans come because they want to work, If there is no work to do in Arizona.. they will go to California.. or Iowa.. or any of the other 50 states.

They won't be coming to Oklahoma. House bill 1804 went into effect in November and it is the toughest anti illegal immigration bill in the country.
webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/2007-08HB/HB1804_int.rtf

The legal ones will still be there. Let the illegals go somewhere else. Other states and or the Feds will probably realize this works and implement it elsewhere.

When HB 1804 went into affect here in Oklahoma it was estimated that 20,000 illegal immigrants left the state. Amazingly, some of them went back to Mexico. :eek: So far, the only reported negative impact has been a shortage of framers for the housing industry.

But lemon flavoring ruins everything.I'm thinking not in this case. It sounds worth a try.

When HB 1804 went into affect here in Oklahoma it was estimated that 20,000 illegal immigrants left the state. Amazingly, some of them went back to Mexico. :eek: So far, the only reported negative impact has been a shortage of framers for the housing industry.

the only reported negative impact?
I dont think so.

http://www.examiner-enterprise.com/articles/2007/11/28/news/state/news866.txt
http://newsok.com/article/3178603/1197163002
http://www.chickashanews.com/statenews/cnhinsall_story_344101517.html


Oklahoma immigration bill hitting retailers, employers
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Maxine Grider knows all too well how much her grocery store in south Oklahoma City relies on the area’s Latino community to stay in the black.

Since a state law that targets illegal immigrants went into effect almost one month ago, business at Grider’s Discount Foods has been off between $50,000 and $75,000 a week.

“It’s hit us pretty bad,” said Grider, who has operated her grocery store at the same location for 45 years. “I’m sure not satisfied with sales.”

If the trend continues, the store will start losing money and its very survival could be threatened.

“It affects your bottom line tremendously,” Grider said.

But lemon flavoring ruins everything.

Lemon and chocolate work. I'm not sure why. But they do. *nod*

the only reported negative impact?
I dont think so.

http://www.examiner-enterprise.com/articles/2007/11/28/news/state/news866.txt
http://newsok.com/article/3178603/1197163002

interesting...

If the trend continues, the store will start losing money and its very survival could be threatened.
so she's not loosing money yet. she still has time to adjust to the new climate and possibly survive.

Retailers and employers whose success depends on Latino business and workers... ok... so are they saying that ALL the Latino businesses and workers were illegal? or is it that those that are Legal are now protesting. could be...

“There is a definite shortage of workers,” said Mike Seney, senior vice president of operations for The State Chamber, a business and industry group that represents 1,500 employers statewide.

With Oklahoma’s unemployment rate at just 4.2 percent of the labor force — lower than the national rate of 4.7 percent — contractors and businesses need workers to fill their labor pools, Seney said.
funny, can't they get those that are unemployed to fill in the gaps? or do they want to just pay the lower than minimum wage workers who they know won't complain...

*Sits back to see which businesses in OK will adjust and which will just complain.*

Snip

funny, can't they get those that are unemployed to fill in the gaps? or do they want to just pay the lower than minimum wage workers who they know won't complain...

*Sits back to see which businesses in OK will adjust and which will just complain.*

How much of those un-employed are mentally or physically fit to fill the job needs vacated by the illegal workers?

How much of those un-employed are mentally or physically fit to fill the job needs vacated by the illegal workers?

I doubt all 4.2 percent would be unfit.

I doubt all 4.2 percent would be unfit.

But enough to fill the gap ... specially considering how many of them are physically tasking jobs which would narrow the field even more

Combine that with the inevitability that people will be located in the wrong area's for many jobs so moving would be more necessary as there may just not be enough people in certain locations to fill the demand. As well as requiring training for a lot of the jobs.

I can see it being a problem for sure

But enough to fill the gap ... specially considering how many of them are physically tasking jobs which would narrow the field even more

Combine that with the inevitability that people will be located in the wrong area's for many jobs so moving would be more necessary as there may just not be enough people in certain locations to fill the demand. As well as requiring training for a lot of the jobs.

I can see it being a problem for sure

which opens up more job opportunities... say a bus/transportation service to drive workers from one area to another...

there's also on-the-job training for those requiring training as well as reshuffling of employees. there are options and with a smaller resource, the nimble and fast ones will adapt and change with the environment while the others who only complain will sink.

the only reported negative impact?
I dont think so.

http://www.examiner-enterprise.com/articles/2007/11/28/news/state/news866.txt
http://newsok.com/article/3178603/1197163002
http://www.chickashanews.com/statenews/cnhinsall_story_344101517.html

As I said "only reported negative impact." I'm aware of some of the other "scaremonger" reporting. An unscientific poll on TV last night by Channel 23 showed that 99% of the people do not want HB 1804 repealed or "softened."

One of the articles you linked to said a "federal judge has not yet ruled." That is an old article and the judge ruled twice in favor of the bill.

How much of those un-employed are mentally or physically fit to fill the job needs vacated by the illegal workers?

Well, I'm sure some of the un-employed who have disabilities could work at McD or possibly mow lawns. By the way my lawn man is a retired school teacher and his wife.

An unscientific poll on TV last night by Channel 23 showed that 99% of the people do not want HB 1804 repealed or "softened."An unscientific poll on TV last night by Channel 69 showed that 101% of the people do want to have sex with me. :D

An unscientific poll on TV last night by Channel 69 showed that 101% of the people do want to have sex with me. :D

:confused:

so that was the yearning I got yesterday...

oh well, it's gone now... :D

so that was the yearning I got yesterday...

oh well, it's gone now... :DFridays.. I am irresistible :D

Fridays.. I am irresistible :D

Well it is payday.

which opens up more job opportunities... say a bus/transportation service to drive workers from one area to another...

there's also on-the-job training for those requiring training as well as reshuffling of employees. there are options and with a smaller resource, the nimble and fast ones will adapt and change with the environment while the others who only complain will sink.

And all that with a smaller amount of people to choose from? Maybe but it sure as hell will be a spendy proposition to start with Someone has to pay for all those resources to start with and as with any more complex system it relies on more failure points then the one before it

Well, I'm sure some of the un-employed who have disabilities could work at McD or possibly mow lawns. By the way my lawn man is a retired school teacher and his wife.

Thats nice but what about the construction workers and the agricultural laborers ... thats the whole point. Sure some of them will be fit to take some of the vacancies but enough of them? and in the right places?