NationStates Jolt Archive

Mexican citizen groups claim the US army is recruiting illegal immigrants from Mexico to send them to the war in Iraq.

Many illegal Mexican immigrant families in the US have been persuaded to return to their places of origin, because of fear that their adolescent children are to be recurred to go to war.

It's commonly asserted in Mexico that the US military uses minorities, including Hispanics, as cannon fodder.

The governor of the Mexican state of Zacatecas recently made the astounding declaration that 70% of the US military is black and Hispanic - with 40% being of Mexican origin


http://www.presstv.ir/Detail.aspx?id=36682&sectionid=3510203

Maybe this report can help sort things out.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda05-08.cfm

As for foreign citizens in the US military it has been a long standing program for foreigners to gain citizenship through serving. I also want to point out that the vast majority of the military does not actually fight in combat.

Mexican citizen groups claim the US army is recruiting illegal immigrants from Mexico to send them to the war in Iraq.

Many illegal Mexican immigrant families in the US have been persuaded to return to their places of origin, because of fear that their adolescent children are to be recurred to go to war.

It's commonly asserted in Mexico that the US military uses minorities, including Hispanics, as cannon fodder.

The governor of the Mexican state of Zacatecas recently made the astounding declaration that 70% of the US military is black and Hispanic - with 40% being of Mexican origin


http://www.presstv.ir/Detail.aspx?id=36682&sectionid=3510203


Sadly, some people have to put their lives on the line to get an education.

Mexican citizen groups claim the US army is recruiting illegal immigrants from Mexico to send them to the war in Iraq.

That's happened for years. I knew several soldiers when I was in that had literally jumped the fence and enlisted at the nearest recruiting station.

It's commonly asserted in Mexico that the US military uses minorities, including Hispanics, as cannon fodder.

Silliness.

The governor of the Mexican state of Zacatecas recently made the astounding declaration that 70% of the US military is black and Hispanic - with 40% being of Mexican origin

lol

Although the military has a higher percentage of minorities than the general population, it's nowhere near that.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/upload/cda05-08_t1.gif

You might want to get your information from a better source.
According to the DoD in 2005, blacks are 13.5% and hispanics are 14% of the total population.
http://www.defenselink.mil/prhome/poprep2005/

The supposition that there has been that drastic a shift in the ethnic composition of the US military in the past 2 years that it is now 70% black and latino (much less that 40% are Mexican nationals - an astounding claim indeed) is, quite frankly, idiotic.

Mexican citizen groups claim the US army is recruiting illegal immigrants from Mexico to send them to the war in Iraq.

Many illegal Mexican immigrant families in the US have been persuaded to return to their places of origin, because of fear that their adolescent children are to be recurred to go to war.

I actually had a theory about doing a variation of that! All my teachers are american and when i sat down and talked to them about how afganistan needs more american troops, i told them what they should do (this was a joke) was get all the illegals who wanted to come into the USA, and if they have 18 year old sons and daughters they are made citizens if their children serve for a minimum of 4 years, with benefits for longer enlistment, such as money, tax breaks, state housing, etc etc

Join the Moblile Infantry! Service garantees citizenship! Would you like to know more? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h4dVFOi3Xg)

so Mexico is like Wales then:confused:

Where are all the people complaining about Illegals taking away jobs from Americans?

Hey, if someone wants to become a legal citizen through serving in the military, more power to them.

It seems silly for officials in Mexico to whine about it -- or anyone else, really.

The French have the same thing...The French Foreign Legion. No one complains about them. (though you do have to serve what...20 years? to become a citizen)

Join the Moblile Infantry! Service garantees citizenship! Would you like to know more? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h4dVFOi3Xg)

I want my power armor, damnit! They didn't have power armor in the movie.

I want my power armor, damnit! They didn't have power armor in the movie.

The power armor was cool... but honestly I thought the movie was better than the book... one of those very very rare cases.

The power armor was cool... but honestly I thought the movie was better than the book... one of those very very rare cases.

I would have liked to see them return to P (giggles) in armor, though.

I think we should make military (or related civilian) service a requirement for citizenship, not just for illegals.

It would be a logical decision for them if they want to remain here, as a foreigner who joins the US Millitary and serves honorably for 6 years is automatically offered a US Citizenship at the end, a law that's been on the books since 9/11. They don't even have to take the history test.

What's more, they'll be paid better and have more benefits then they would in an equivalent civilan job, and would have the chance to get a high school education, possibly a college education if they show leadership promise, and learn english. When you add to this the fact that their life, as a worker in the United States without legal protection against petty criminals and corporate abuse, is already in very thorough danger, it is my humble opinnion that if I was in their shoes and was offered this choice, I wouldn't just take it, I'd be excited. I'd never have to worry about feeding my family again!

The French have the same thing...The French Foreign Legion. No one complains about them. (though you do have to serve what...20 years? to become a citizen)

3 years although if injured in combat he gets offered it immediately regardless of time served.

And no, the Legion isn't the same thing. To join the Legion you have to be a foreigner or a Frenchman enlisting under a fictitious foreign identity. Their units (save for the officers) are made up entirely of foreigners. The US has absolutely nothing even remotely like that. The vast majority of the US military are US citizens. In fact, the majority are white. That Mexican governor was talking out of his ass.

That Mexican governor was talking out of his ass.
I don't doubt it. I have heard that there are enough Spanish speaking people around that the military no longer pays you extra for that language. :D

I guess it works for the USA, join the armed forces and become a good citizen defending your nation. If you stuff up when someone blows your head off, bad luck ...

I don't doubt it. I have heard that there are enough Spanish speaking people around that the military no longer pays you extra for that language. :D

That is true, but largely because so many Californians, and Texans of all races (Texas being extremely overrepresented in the military) speak Spanish. They gave me an extra $50 a month for speaking French when I was in.

Oh, and Puerto Ricans. Many Puerto Ricans are sent to the Defense Language Institute to learn English before basic training.

I think we should make military (or related civilian) service a requirement for citizenship, not just for illegals.

I like the idea of a volunteer service however I do like the idea of some type of a civilian service program.

I don't doubt it. I have heard that there are enough Spanish speaking people around that the military no longer pays you extra for that language. :D

I don't believe they pay for Spanish but could be wrong. I know I got extra for French and Arabic.

I think we should make military (or related civilian) service a requirement for citizenship, not just for illegals.

Just wondering but what about if the person has a felony? should they be alowed to serve then; and if so should the felony be removed from their record???

That is true, but largely because so many Californians, and Texans of all races (Texas being extremely overrepresented in the military) speak Spanish. They gave me an extra $50 a month for speaking French when I was in.

Oh, and Puerto Ricans. Many Puerto Ricans are sent to the Defense Language Institute to learn English before basic training.

Just to clarify: Puerto Ricans are Americans too.

Just to clarify: Puerto Ricans are Americans too.

Off the subject a bit. Have you seen the commercial out there for Puerto Rican tourism? At the end of it is says "Americans don't need their passports to visit." I don't know if it is just me but it makes me very irritated that they put that comment in there. Here is an example of this on the net.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20070116/ap_tr_ge/travel_trip_caribbean_passports

A recruiter cannot even touch a potential recruit unless he has at least a Green Card. Some of you may wish to believe that the military is taking illegals but they are not, and it is impossible under regulations for them to. Also, if you have a green card, than most MOS's (jobs) are unavailable to you.

This reminds me of the french foreign legion. This is a good idea, recruit illeagals and make them citizens after service.

Just to clarify: Puerto Ricans are Americans too.

Just to clarify: I wasn't saying they aren't.

Off the subject a bit. Have you seen the commercial out there for Puerto Rican tourism? At the end of it is says "Americans don't need their passports to visit." I don't know if it is just me but it makes me very irritated that they put that comment in there. Here is an example of this on the net.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20070116/ap_tr_ge/travel_trip_caribbean_passports

Of course Americans don't need a passport to visit there -- because Puerto Rico is a Commonwealth of the US. Puerto Ricans don't need a passport to visit the States, because they're citizens already.

Just goes to show the level of ignorance...

Didn't Rome do the same thing with barbarians, right before they fell?

Didn't Rome do the same thing with barbarians, right before they fell?

Hardly a comparison. Also the citizenship program for the military has been around for a long time. It may even go back to the roots of the nation. Can't find an exact date for this though.

Okay let me get this straight someone thinks its wrong that their fighting for us even though most of them don't even bother to learn english(i can't imagine california and new mexico as the illegals in michigan don't even bother to learn our language), they take away our jobs ( in michigan where automobile manufacturing is the only major industry around and they are all leaving for mexico which is why an estimated 30,000 people leave michigan a month but thats for another time) and someone is mad that they can and are persuaded to serve in the american military now i wouldn't want them on the combat field with me (my dream is to join the military) but the least they could do is sit behind a desk.

Hardly a comparison. Also the citizenship program for the military has been around for a long time. It may even go back to the roots of the nation. Can't find an exact date for this though.

Well, seeing the recent blunders of the Feds recently in foreign policy, there is at least a passing similarity in that the ones in power are taking desperate measures to preserve their agenda. (And turning a blind-eye to one's background in order to get some boots is definitely not Plan A.)

this is hilarious.

sadly some (especially here on NSG) will actually believe and buy into this.

you mean the people who will actually use the head God gave them the correct way

you mean the people who will actually use the head God gave them the correct way

if this is a response to my comment,
then if said people were actually using the head God gave them the correct way
they would no doubt realize how ridiculous a claim this is. if this any other way besides an attack on the USA it would be blown off as being fear mongering and ignorant

Okay let me get this straight someone thinks its wrong that their fighting for us even though most of them don't even bother to learn english(i can't imagine california and new mexico as the illegals in michigan don't even bother to learn our language), they take away our jobs ( in michigan where automobile manufacturing is the only major industry around and they are all leaving for mexico which is why an estimated 30,000 people leave michigan a month but thats for another time) and someone is mad that they can and are persuaded to serve in the american military now i wouldn't want them on the combat field with me (my dream is to join the military) but the least they could do is sit behind a desk.

Huh?

As what? Target practice...

Okay let me get this straight someone thinks its wrong that their fighting for us even though most of them don't even bother to learn english(i can't imagine california and new mexico as the illegals in michigan don't even bother to learn our language), they take away our jobs ( in michigan where automobile manufacturing is the only major industry around and they are all leaving for mexico which is why an estimated 30,000 people leave michigan a month but thats for another time) and someone is mad that they can and are persuaded to serve in the american military now i wouldn't want them on the combat field with me (my dream is to join the military) but the least they could do is sit behind a desk.

Wah wah! Mexicans don't want to learn English! Wah Wah! They're stealing our jobs!

Give some statistics on illegals not speaking English. Oh wait, they're illegal, so you can never prove it.

And just so you know, having a job isn't a right.

Okay let me get this straight someone thinks its wrong that their fighting for us even though most of them don't even bother to learn english(i can't imagine california and new mexico as the illegals in michigan don't even bother to learn our language), they take away our jobs ( in michigan where automobile manufacturing is the only major industry around and they are all leaving for mexico which is why an estimated 30,000 people leave michigan a month but thats for another time) and someone is mad that they can and are persuaded to serve in the american military now i wouldn't want them on the combat field with me (my dream is to join the military) but the least they could do is sit behind a desk.

I don't think illegals stole any auto manufacturing jobs here in Flint. I also served with many Puerto Ricans in the military and I can tell you that most of them were fine soldiers despite the language barrier, so I don't know what the desk crack is about.

Okay let me get this straight someone thinks its wrong that their fighting for us even though most of them don't even bother to learn english(i can't imagine california and new mexico as the illegals in michigan don't even bother to learn our language), they take away our jobs ( in michigan where automobile manufacturing is the only major industry around and they are all leaving for mexico which is why an estimated 30,000 people leave michigan a month but thats for another time) and someone is mad that they can and are persuaded to serve in the american military now i wouldn't want them on the combat field with me (my dream is to join the military) but the least they could do is sit behind a desk.

If the Mexicans are so fine at stealing jobs, then why are our unemployment rates low? And as for learning English, that's difficult, and most of them are working long hours at tiring physical jobs.

Now I agree that Mexicans should be allowed to join the millitary if they wish (which they really should for their own benefit, as I mentioned earlier), but I can assure you that there is no reason to think they could not be perfectly fine soldiers capable of more then "sit behind a desk." Indeed, to even get here illegally they had to be very fine, brave, risk-taking folk. They may be unruly, and if so, then the Sargeant Major will help soften up the rough edges, and by the time they're out of boot camp, you won't be able to tell em apart from the native born kind.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/upload/cda05-08_t1.gif

LOLOLOLOL tell me I am hallucinating, tell me you just didn't quote the 'Heritage Foundation', the biggest neocon think tank around? You fail.

my lord....Liberalism is a mental disorder....

I wanted to join the United States Army, but I was turned down since I have asthma. Regarding the question about illegals: If someone is willing to serve in a country's military forces, I'm not about to press the fact that they're here illegally. A fair number of these illegal immigrants are decent people whose only crime is being here. If they want to become citizens and are willing to take on military service and promise not to cause too much trouble, I see nothing wrong with letting them serve.

Didn't Rome do the same thing with barbarians, right before they fell?

Not exactly... The Western Empire often forcefully conscripted them to fight as cannon fodder against the enemies of Rome and never gave them a thing in return. The Vandals and the Goths were actually exceptions and not the rule.

They eventually turned on and attacked Rome after the Emperors didn't keep up to thier end of the bargain, the Romans promised the Goths land in Spain and the Vandals actually truly beleived that they had been promised the city of Rome itself.

URRR! MEXICANS! KILL THEM AT THE BORDER!

That's what you wanted as a response, right?

If so, you're a cretin. Thar we go.

so Mexico is like Wales then:confused:
Mexico is Wales. They've been tricking us the whole time.

Okay let me get this straight someone thinks its wrong that their fighting for us even though most of them don't even bother to learn english(i can't imagine california and new mexico as the illegals in michigan don't even bother to learn our language).

now i wouldn't want them on the combat field with me (my dream is to join the military) but the least they could do is sit behind a desk.

So you want the majority of them, guys who barely know english, to be working with your pay or some other part of your admin? Trust me you want only the most educated and literate mf'ers working from behind a desk.

LOLOLOLOL tell me I am hallucinating, tell me you just didn't quote the 'Heritage Foundation', the biggest neocon think tank around? You fail.
Don't be so silly.

If you really want to be informed, you verify the ARGUMENT, not the arguer, since the argument should always be independent of the person making it. If an arguer is exerting his assumptions on the argument, that's fine, but if he's lying then it should be obvious when his data is inconsistent with other arguments that have been shown correct. And you can do that without attacking the arguer. Ad hominems, the act of attacking the arguer instead of the argument is a debating fallacy, and there's a reason why.

In other words, it's foolish to just take an arguer's word for it just because they're informed or misinformed. Even a total idiot can guess and make an argument right, it's just that informed people have more education and resources of the mind (knowledge, a deep understanding of the subject) to form a better argument, but even then a total idiot can just guess the same argument that the informed person tried for weeks to think out and come up with. Do you get my point?

An argument must always remain independent of the person making it if you truly want an open mind. Otherwise, you're no better than someone being spoon fed BS by "good" sources, and then completely ignoring "bad" sources since they disagree with your opinions, despite any possible validity in their argument, why you take the "good" source's opinions without thinking through them.

What is needed is an American Foreign Legion, made up of those who would otherwise enter this country illegally. For serving honorably a set amount of time, say 10 years, the Legionaire would be granted U.S. Citizenship.
This idea is good for:
A) allows the otherwise Illegal a chance to earn the right to be here, by working towards a goal for them and providing a service to the country they wish to live in.
B) By not being an "American" fighting force, it would not necessarily be bound to the same agreements that a regular US combat force might be. In other words, they could do some of the dirty work while keeping our hands clean. The French have done the same for years with their Legion.