NationStates Jolt Archive

Now, I'm not ugly in the sense that I'm asymmetrical. I'm just a little overweight and don't know how to dress, plus I need a much better haircut.

But still, I found this article disturbing.

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10311266
To those that have, shall be given

The ugly are one of the few groups against whom it is still legal to discriminate. Unfortunately for them, there are good reasons why beauty and success go hand in hand.

Please read the whole thing, it's worth it.

What are your thoughts on this issue? Is there any realistic chance of overcoming it? Is it necessary to overcome it? What are your real-life experiences with all this?

I'm pretty... I definitely don't "know how to dress" but I get enough attention to get annoyed by it. I can't say that I've had experience being discriminated against for being ugly.

As for the article:
If appearance did not count, why would people dress up for such interviews—even if the job they are hoping to get is dressed down?
You get dressed up for a job interview to show that you will take the job seriously. If you give the appearance that you are a professional who cares about that particular job, then you're more likely to get it than if you just roll out of bed. This doesn't really have to do with physical beauty.

Also, as a brunette, I'm annoyed by this "bright blondes" crap that the author is doing, as though only blondes can be beautiful.

[QUOTE=Dakini;13330615]You get dressed up for a job interview to show that you will take the job seriously. If you give the appearance that you are a professional who cares about that particular job, then you're more likely to get it than if you just roll out of bed. This doesn't really have to do with physical beauty.

I'd have to agree with that, if I just rolled out of bed for a job interview I'd end up going to it looking like Russel Brand, which, despite probably having benefits in appearance to the opposite sex, would likely not get me the job.... Unless... It was an interview for a Russel Brand lookalike...

What are your thoughts on this issue? Is there any realistic chance of overcoming it? Is it necessary to overcome it? What are your real-life experiences with all this?
I don't believe that anything can be done to overcome it. As the article claims, bias toward the 'beautiful' seems to be hard-wired into us by nature. Other forms of discrimination can be codified - a woman is a woman, skin colour is skin colour etc, etc - but since there is no objective measure for beauty it's simply not possible to legislate for any kind of 'equality' relating to it.

It's certainly something that happens, though. In the past I've had situations where there were still several candidates for a job after all of the interview stages concluded. You have to pick one of them somehow, and I'm trying to think of a case where I picked the 'best looking'. I'm not sure that I ever did (consciously), but I may have, and I know for sure that others did.

Reading the article I can't say that I'm surprised that these trends are shown as evident in advertising/PR/marketing fields. By definition these fields look to make an immediate appeal to target audiences, and the easiest way to do that is to have the person presenting the product visually captivating enough to engage the viewer. Sex sells, and all that.

Pretty people live in a different world than ugly people do. I often complain when my plays are cast with beautiful people because I don't write their world-all we ever see is the stories of beautiful people, fuck those bastards...

You get dressed up for a job interview to show that you will take the job seriously. If you give the appearance that you are a professional who cares about that particular job, then you're more likely to get it than if you just roll out of bed. This doesn't really have to do with physical beauty.
Of course, there are different options when dressing up. Indeed, there are different other signals you could use to convey your readiness to prepare for the job. I think what is significant is that the most used signal is to make ourselves look pretty.

Also, as a brunette, I'm annoyed by this "bright blondes" crap that the author is doing, as though only blondes can be beautiful.
I think he's trying to be whimsical, rather than making any point about hair colours.

Pretty people live in a different world than ugly people do. I often complain when my plays are cast with beautiful people because I don't write their world-all we ever see is the stories of beautiful people, fuck those bastards...

Little bitter?

Little bitter?

A touch.

Pretty people live in a different world than ugly people do. I often complain when my plays are cast with beautiful people because I don't write their world-all we ever see is the stories of beautiful people, fuck those bastards...
Whatever, you want to get harassed and eye-humped every time you go in public and you're not bundled up in a large coat (sometimes even when you are)?

Of course, there are different options when dressing up. Indeed, there are different other signals you could use to convey your readiness to prepare for the job. I think what is significant is that the most used signal is to make ourselves look pretty.
I suppose. I would generally hate to think that I got a job because I looked better than another applicant though. Granted, I've only ever had one real job and I think I mostly had it before my boss knew what I looked like.

I think he's trying to be whimsical, rather than making any point about hair colours.
I suppose this could be the case. I don't get the bit about blondes though, generally I find people with dark (or red) hair (male or female) more attractive.

If equally intelligent, experienced, and educated - why not take the ugly one? You can pay them less.

I'm pretty... I definitely don't "know how to dress" but I get enough attention to get annoyed by it. I can't say that I've had experience being discriminated against for being ugly.

As for the article:

You get dressed up for a job interview to show that you will take the job seriously. If you give the appearance that you are a professional who cares about that particular job, then you're more likely to get it than if you just roll out of bed. This doesn't really have to do with physical beauty.

Also, as a brunette, I'm annoyed by this "bright blondes" crap that the author is doing, as though only blondes can be beautiful.

No worries, the whole blonde thing was employing the common cliché, and was the most relevant example. I for one prefer brunettes to blondes, in general (never had a blonde gf in my life), and I doubt it's because I am dark haired myself.

Whatever, you want to get harassed and eye-humped every time you go in public and you're not bundled up in a large coat (sometimes even when you are)?
Trade that in for looks of disgust, banks not opening doors for you, people bundling up when they see you because they assume that you're eye-humping them because the uglies just spend their time ogling the pretty people, dealing with the assumption that a 'pity flirt' will get you to let the person walk over you...yeah, I can see how being admired is a real drag...

Trade that in for looks of disgust, banks not opening doors for you, people bundling up when they see you because they assume that you're eye-humping them because the uglies just spend their time ogling the pretty people, dealing with the assumption that a 'pity flirt' will get you to let the person walk over you...yeah, I can see how being admired is a real drag...

The grass is always greener on the other side

And I don't see where the implication was that only ugly people 'eye hump'

I like red heads... I earned a thread win when I described why :p. Anyway, I do think that its a hardwired instinctual reaction that most of us can't avoid. Many people think of someone as low, stupid, or immoral just based on thier looks alone.

Some interesting data that I picked up in college Phsych class was that beautiful people are more likely to develope personality problems such as anti social personality disorder or bipolar disorder.

Perhaps they develope them because of how they are treated?

The grass is always greener on the other side
If you somehow think there is green grass on the ugly side then you're pretty close to what makes me a little bitter. I know plenty of pretty people, none of them would change places with me on a dare.
And I don't see where the implication was that only ugly people 'eye hump'
I didn't imply that either.

Trade that in for looks of disgust, banks not opening doors for you, people bundling up when they see you because they assume that you're eye-humping them because the uglies just spend their time ogling the pretty people, dealing with the assumption that a 'pity flirt' will get you to let the person walk over you...yeah, I can see how being admired is a real drag...
I don't look at people in disgust and always hold open the door for people behind me (or open the door if someone has their hands full). And I don't generally assume that people are eye-humping me unless it's really, really blatant and I'm generally rather oblivious of my surroundings (so it probably happens more than I notice).

I would rather be able to go somewhere and not be hit on by creeps who are twice my age occasionally or have half my male friends try to jump my bones the second I end a relationship.

Not that I'm saying I wish I was ugly, I like how I look. I just wish other people weren't asshats about it and would leave me alone when I want to be left alone.

And I don't see where the implication was that only ugly people 'eye hump'
Indeed. I get more concerned when it's people much older than me or people I know to be attached who do it.

Now, I'm not ugly in the sense that I'm asymmetrical. I'm just a little overweight and don't know how to dress, plus I need a much better haircut.

But still, I found this article disturbing.

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10311266


Please read the whole thing, it's worth it.

What are your thoughts on this issue? Is there any realistic chance of overcoming it? Is it necessary to overcome it? What are your real-life experiences with all this?

I cant really comment...im more Godlike than beautiful...who needs beauty when perfection is already a constant :cool:

If you somehow think there is green grass on the ugly side then you're pretty close to what makes me a little bitter. I know plenty of pretty people, none of them would change places with me on a dare.

Yes you do have a monopoly on hard times i'm sure

I didn't imply that either.

You percieved it from Dakini it would seem

Yes you do have a monopoly on hard times i'm sure
Nonetheless, he's right. If you can find me a beautiful person who would voluntarily become ugly, I'd be impressed. But you don't have to look hard to find people trying to make themselves look better.

I'm sure being stared at or asked out a lot can become a nuisance, one's person becoming secondary to one's looks would be worse. But compared to being ugly, and all that comes with that, those still seem the better option.

Nonetheless, he's right. If you can find me a beautiful person who would voluntarily become ugly, I'd be impressed. But you don't have to look hard to find people trying to make themselves look better.

I'm sure being stared at or asked out a lot can become a nuisance, one's person becoming secondary to one's looks would be worse. But compared to being ugly, and all that comes with that, those still seem the better option.

From which perspective are you coming from?

Do you consider yourself in the beautiful or ugly category?

I'm sure being stared at or asked out a lot can become a nuisance, one's person becoming secondary to one's looks would be worse.
Spending the first while of a relationship wondering if someone's with you because they like you or because they think you're hot...

Yes you do have a monopoly on hard times i'm sure
Never said that.



You percieved it from Dakini it would seem
Your stretch, not mine.

Trade that in for looks of disgust, banks not opening doors for you, people bundling up when they see you because they assume that you're eye-humping them because the uglies just spend their time ogling the pretty people, dealing with the assumption that a 'pity flirt' will get you to let the person walk over you...yeah, I can see how being admired is a real drag...

Unfortunately I happen to know how it's like to be on this end of the situation. Being ugly isn't something you can change. It's just the kind of things you have to live with because this is who you are in the eye of society.

But one thing I seriously hate is people accusing me of eye-humping them. I don't care if you are the most beautiful woman in the world. If you walk in public space and think you can look at me and I can't look at you, you got some serious superiority complex. If you think you are better because you don't like looking at me as much, that's just a shame. Because those kind of disgust is the reason why I am looking at you to begin with.

Do you consider yourself in the beautiful or ugly category?
I'm not ugly as such, I'm just not physically attractive and I don't dress well. Which on balance leaves me in a similar position to ugly people.

Spending the first while of a relationship wondering if someone's with you because they like you or because they think you're hot...
Right now, I'd settle for any relationship. Beggars can't be choosers, and all that.

Maybe CtoaN is right - we do live in different worlds. :p

On a serious note for a change...

Id honestly say that ugly people are in the majority in the world...ive been on enough nights out to know that alot of folks make the best of what they have...so unless you are hidiously disformed...I think it all depends on how you perceive yourself...im not Brad Pitt...but neither am I ugly...though I am the biggest narcissist on here...my perception of how good I look or how cool I am is far far greater than the perceptions of those around me...yet my belief that im godlike makes me so...conclusion...most people are average to ugly...there is nothing abnormal about being abnormal...its just part of lifes rich tapestry :cool:

Nonetheless, he's right. If you can find me a beautiful person who would voluntarily become ugly, I'd be impressed. But you don't have to look hard to find people trying to make themselves look better.

I'm sure being stared at or asked out a lot can become a nuisance, one's person becoming secondary to one's looks would be worse. But compared to being ugly, and all that comes with that, those still seem the better option.

Well, I'm no sure but I pretty much think I qualify for voluntarily becoming ugly.

1) I have a mild case of acnee which I refuse to treat in any way shape or form, despite my mother (who is a nurse) pestering me about it

2) I refuse to do anything to make my hair look properly (I cut my hair twice a year, and use absolutely nothing in it)

3) I only shave so I can stimulate the hair to grow properly so I can have a proper beard eventually

4) Never shave anything else apart from the beard

5) Shower or wash teeth only when I remember to and can be asked

6) The only cosmetic products I use are soap and toothpaste (and occasionally solid fragrance-less deodorant). I don't even use shaving foam.

7) I'm underweight because I can't be asked to eat more than once or twice a day

8) I don't exercise and I have next to no muscles (except what still lingers from having played a lot of football when younger)

Despite all this, I am not a virgin, I have had very fulfilling relationships and shamelessly flirt with anyone who will, even with quite a few girls that are far more attractive than what I could be at my best.

As for eye-humping: I seem to have the bad habit of drifting off when looking at people so it seems like I'm doing it most of the time. I seem to have freaked off a few girls in the past but in all honesty I really couldn't care less. I think it's normal and natural to have the tendency to look at the most interesting/attractive thing/person in any setting, and I'm not going to try and control that impulse for anybody. People should be flattered by it, and I will bluntly say so if they were to ask, and if they are not then it's their problem, not mine.

My girlfreind is quite beautiful, however thas not where my interests lie, sure it helps but her and I just out of the blue clicked together and we get on well. Me I'm kinda on the plain side. She does complain to me about how some men look at her when she's out and about, either by herself or with others. She does a lot of missionary work, and once told me the most disturbing thing about her last posting (before her current one) was the way the priest in charge of the mission was at times litterally learing at her. So the eye humping ting does happen a lot, and I have been guilty of it at times.. not deliberatly it just happens; you see someone and your like "Holy.. *insert word here*" and can't help but look for a little longer. I try not to undress people in my head though.

She gets a lot of special treatment, but I think its more based off of her personality than looks... I know I have recieved preferential treatment simply because I was so outgoing and unique.

But one thing I seriously hate is people accusing me of eye-humping them. I don't care if you are the most beautiful woman in the world. If you walk in public space and think you can look at me and I can't look at you, you got some serious superiority complex. If you think you are better because you don't like looking at me as much, that's just a shame. Because those kind of disgust is the reason why I am looking at you to begin with.
Look, I don't care if people look at me. I'm perfectly fine with someone looking at me and giving me a smile or waving hello or something, these things are fine. It's when it's this creepy stare that you can just feel or when someone follows you for a block or turns their car around and starts up with "oh, I saw you walking in this same direction 5 minutes ago..." and gives you some line. Or when you sit on the bus and the guy across from you stares at you for the entire 45 minute ride, occasionally licking his lips while you hope and pray that he gets off the bus before you do and bury your nose further in your book so he'll get the hint that you're not interested and leave you the fuck alone. Or maybe when you're 12 some construction workers whistle and make comments when you walk by. Or maybe people feel like they can invade your personal space because they want to hit on you more.

Look, I don't care if people look at me. I'm perfectly fine with someone looking at me and giving me a smile or waving hello or something, these things are fine. It's when it's this creepy stare that you can just feel or when someone follows you for a block or turns their car around and starts up with "oh, I saw you walking in this same direction 5 minutes ago..." and gives you some line. Or when you sit on the bus and the guy across from you stares at you for the entire 45 minute ride, occasionally licking his lips while you hope and pray that he gets off the bus before you do and bury your nose further in your book so he'll get the hint that you're not interested and leave you the fuck alone. Or maybe when you're 12 some construction workers whistle and make comments when you walk by. Or maybe people feel like they can invade your personal space because they want to hit on you more.

Hey I wasn't accuse you or anything on this forum. It was simply a personal experience.

Right now, I'd settle for any relationship. Beggars can't be choosers, and all that.
No matter how you look, you shouldn't have to "settle for any relationship" and I very much doubt you're a beggar. Generally being alone is better than being with someone you're not interested in or who will treat you poorly.

Look, I don't care if people look at me. I'm perfectly fine with someone looking at me and giving me a smile or waving hello or something, these things are fine. It's when it's this creepy stare that you can just feel or when someone follows you for a block or turns their car around and starts up with "oh, I saw you walking in this same direction 5 minutes ago..." and gives you some line. Or when you sit on the bus and the guy across from you stares at you for the entire 45 minute ride, occasionally licking his lips while you hope and pray that he gets off the bus before you do and bury your nose further in your book so he'll get the hint that you're not interested and leave you the fuck alone. Or maybe when you're 12 some construction workers whistle and make comments when you walk by. Or maybe people feel like they can invade your personal space because they want to hit on you more.

This makes me curious. Post a picture please?:D pweatty pwease? :D

No matter how you look, you shouldn't have to "settle for any relationship" and I very much doubt you're a beggar. Generally being alone is better than being with someone you're not interested in or who will treat you poorly.

The grass is always greener on the other side. When you're single you'd rather just have anyone and when you have someone who isn't perfect you'd rather have someone else or nobody at all.;)

No matter how you look, you shouldn't have to "settle for any relationship" and I very much doubt you're a beggar. Generally being alone is better than being with someone you're not interested in or who will treat you poorly.
At least it would end the loneliness. Maybe even chase away the black dog.

But nevermind, this thread isn't about me or my problems.

This makes me curious. Post a picture please?:D pweatty pwease? :D
I'm not on my computer at the moment so I don't have any pics around. My computer's sorta a quarter of a world away.

The grass is always greener on the other side. When you're single you'd rather just have anyone and when you have someone who isn't perfect you'd rather have someone else or nobody at all.;)
Actually I like it when I'm single. It's nice. I get time to myself, I'm more productive, I can take up as much of the bed, I can flirt with whoever and not feel bad about it and I want and I have lots of time for friends. And I've been in shitty relationships before... I know that it's much better to be alone than to settle for someone who treats you like crap or who you're not very interested in.

I'm not on my computer at the moment so I don't have any pics around. My computer's sorta a quarter of a world away.

If I ever heard a better excuse...;)

Seriously though, it was more of a sarcastic comment, in the spirit of all the freaky staring and such. Almost flamebaiting (and I apologise for it). :)

I for one find sharing pictures over the internet far more uncomfortable than being stared at. Don't you?

you're still not getting it...ive always had good looking girlfriends...the reason? I just dont give a fuck about my looks...my personality is enough to think I can seduce and date whomever I desire...I see a good looking girl when im out and I dont just admire them from afar...I go over and talk to them...ok you say...alright for you to talk...you're not ugly...and you are right...im not ugly...but you see alot of good looking people with average looking partners...because those partners have had the balls to approach...the media tells us all that we have to look a certain way...so what defines beauty?

In the 1950s women with curves were your classic beautys...look at marilyn munroe...a size 16

now women are told that looking like a pre pubescant boy is what looks attractive...size zero clothes hangers....

just have confidence in yourself and I assure you now the rest will follow

This makes me curious. Post a picture please?:D pweatty pwease? :D

Here is A PICTURE you never specified what of though so...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/SaintB/AirPatrol.jpg

Actually I like it when I'm single. It's nice. I get time to myself, I'm more productive, I can take up as much of the bed, I can flirt with whoever and not feel bad about it and I want and I have lots of time for friends. And I've been in shitty relationships before... I know that it's much better to be alone than to settle for someone who treats you like crap or who you're not very interested in.

I find being single rather boring. But maybe that's just me, since I'm not the most outgoing person, and only someone really special can drag me away from my monotonous existence. There's also the fact that I would never go out (officially) with someone I don't love, so a gf, for me, would be special by definition.

Also I am of the belief that one needs to get out of a relationship as soon as it turns sour, if it can't be worked out properly, for the sake of the good memories you share with that person, rather than stay on until it becomes literally unbearable.

I don't know if this is odd at all but my best friends tend to be ex-gfs.

Here is A PICTURE you never specified what of though so...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/SaintB/AirPatrol.jpg

I am amused... good one;)

I find being single rather boring. But maybe that's just me, since I'm not the most outgoing person, and only someone really special can drag me away from my monotonous existence. There's also the fact that I would never go out (officially) with someone I don't love, so a gf, for me, would be special by definition.
Well, I tend to like having time to myself. I mean, not all the time, but it's nice to be able to sit and read for an evening (or an entire weekend) without feeling like I'm neglecting someone.

Also I am of the belief that one needs to get out of a relationship as soon as it turns sour, if it can't be worked out properly, for the sake of the good memories you share with that person, rather than stay on until it becomes literally unbearable.
Yeah, I tend to be bad at ending relationships when I know it won't work.

I don't know if this is odd at all but my best friends tend to be ex-gfs.
Reverse the gender on that and this is how things go with me usually (except the ones I've lost touch with for whatever reason).

If I ever heard a better excuse...;)
It's true! I'm on top of a very tall mountain in a timezone that's 5 hours off the one I left my computer in, using a sweet computer (not to its full potential though because the weather's not good enough for me to do anything useful with it).

Seriously though, it was more of a sarcastic comment, in the spirit of all the freaky staring and such. Almost flamebaiting (and I apologise for it). :)

I for one find sharing pictures over the internet far more uncomfortable than being stared at. Don't you?
No need to apologize. And I don't find sharing pictures on the internet that uncomfortable, being stared at is probably one of the most uncomfortable things ever.

you're still not getting it...ive always had good looking girlfriends...the reason? I just dont give a fuck about my looks...my personality is enough to think I can seduce and date whomever I desire...I see a good looking girl when im out and I dont just admire them from afar...I go over and talk to them...ok you say...alright for you to talk...you're not ugly...and you are right...im not ugly...but you see alot of good looking people with average looking partners...because those partners have had the balls to approach...the media tells us all that we have to look a certain way...so what defines beauty?

In the 1950s women with curves were your classic beautys...look at marilyn munroe...a size 16

now women are told that looking like a pre pubescant boy is what looks attractive...size zero clothes hangers....

just have confidence in yourself and I assure you now the rest will follow

Except if you are really ugly, then you can do all that, and the girl will tell you you are not her type, ask you to be her friend. Then behind your back lie about how you are stalking her to everyone just to get you off her back, and everyone will believe her.

If you can go up to a girl and talk to her without her finding your look offensive, then actually you are more privileged than you think.

Onto a more general topic.

See nobody thinks about the really ugly. It's just so normal to think that they can't be helped and will be falling through the crack no matter what. I think this is the point the article manage to capture very well. Because for some reason the western culture creates this myth that the one who gets it worst are the "average joes". And the real ugly people just ignored, unmentioned, and fade away in the background. Not only in relationship, but in career and everything. It's like how everyone say middle class people have a hard life, homeless people just gets ignored/unmentioned. Kinna the same thing.

Well, I tend to like having time to myself. I mean, not all the time, but it's nice to be able to sit and read for an evening (or an entire weekend) without feeling like I'm neglecting someone.


Yeah, I tend to be bad at ending relationships when I know it won't work.


Reverse the gender on that and this is how things go with me usually (except the ones I've lost touch with for whatever reason).

Sounds like you've had rather possessive bfs, if they would feel neglected by that. But then again I sometimes end up acting rather possessively, but generally only they are the same, or very jealous by nature (also this tends to happen because sometimes I simply cannot help flirting, even if I have no intention to be cheating on my gfs).

As for ending relationships, it is more a matter of assuming responsibility for it. Most people need a self-satisfying reason to be able to assume such responsibility, especially girls. In other words, people need to be able to blame the other for it having gone sour to be able to end a relationship. I must admit, in very intense relationships I have been guilty of acting like this, but usually I end it at the opportune moment, before things get out of hand.

Also, I find it rather tragic when you get so close to someone and get to know them so well, only to lose touch with them.

Except if you are really ugly, then you can do all that, and the girl will tell you you are not her type, ask you to be her friend. Then behind your back lie about how you are stalking her to everyone just to get you off her back, and everyone will believe her.

If you can go up to a girl and talk to her without her finding your look offensive, then actually you are more privileged than you think.

Onto a more general topic.

See nobody thinks about the really ugly. It's just so normal to think that they can't be helped and will be falling through the crack no matter what. I think this is the point the article manage to capture very well. Because for some reason the western culture creates this myth that the one who gets it worst are the "average joes". And the real ugly people just ignored, unmentioned, and fade away in the background. Not only in relationship, but in career and everything. It's like how everyone say middle class people have a hard life, homeless people just gets ignored/unmentioned. Kinna the same thing.

I was under the impression that it was due to euphemistic talking. Average Joe includes the ugly.

But really it is more a personality thing than actual physical traits. As I said, I tend to frown upon the vanity of beauty (as you can see from my post about my beauty treatments;)), but generally make up for it through personality. Not always, but if that doesn't work then it's obvious a relationship with such a person would not work for me.

Just think about it for a moment. Don't you know anyone who's literally physically revolting but charming and enticing in an unexplainable way? They inspire and are admired despite the way they look? Are all film stars beautiful/handsome? I could go on and on, but really, if you open your eyes, there is so much more to the real world than to cover of Vogue.

I think you are missing the point. Not necessarily you, or the posters on this thread, but a vast majority of the populace will not like a physically disgusting person". If someone has a Really Bad Look they are stuffed.

What's even worse, is if they were "blessed" from birth, or an early age with their look, then they would have been despised through school, etc, which would stunt their social growth as well.

A very large part of our society worships beauty, and despises ugliness. An average looking guy gets by, as most people are average. That bottom 10% is what the other poster was talking about.

I was under the impression that it was due to euphemistic talking. Average Joe includes the ugly.

But really it is more a personality thing than actual physical traits. As I said, I tend to frown upon the vanity of beauty (as you can see from my post about my beauty treatments;)), but generally make up for it through personality. Not always, but if that doesn't work then it's obvious a relationship with such a person would not work for me.

Just think about it for a moment. Don't you know anyone who's literally physically revolting but charming and enticing in an unexplainable way? They inspire and are admired despite the way they look? Are all film stars beautiful/handsome? I could go on and on, but really, if you open your eyes, there is so much more to the real world than to cover of Vogue.

I am guessing you haven't have people who tell you in your face that you are ugly yet have you? Now I am not saying it's impossible, I am simply saying this "it's your personality" thing a bit unrealistic in that, are ugly people suppose to come with extremely charming and enticing personality? It's like sure if you have a godly 1 in a thousand personality it might overcome the dreadful first impression. Unfortunately my personality is average and do not process the kind of charm I need to overcome the immediate disgust.

Now let's consider that, due to your look, your chance of communicating with others was reduce throughout your life to begin with. People despises you from the start for no reason other than your look. It is a miracle already that the person didn't turn psychotic or anti social. How would someone like such be expected to have MORE skills in talking to women than other, more normal men, who at least, if not dated, have a friend of the opposite sex at some point of their life?

Let's face it, the more ugly a person is, the bigger the disadvantage. And nobody is going to magically have a good personality if they never get a chance to talk to the opposite sex before they start freaking out on your look.

Have you ever considered that the only thing standing in the way of you having a great personality is your fear of rejection, self pitying and self victimisation?

That's why you have a greater disadvantage: the inferiority complex that comes with believing you are not and cannot be what people want.

Pretty people live in a different world than ugly people do. I often complain when my plays are cast with beautiful people because I don't write their world-all we ever see is the stories of beautiful people, fuck those bastards...

I can tell you've never had them cast a soap "star". Lucky you.

Have you ever considered that the only thing standing in the way of you having a great personality is your fear of rejection, self pitying and self victimisation?

That's why you have a greater disadvantage: the inferiority complex that comes with believing you are not and cannot be what people want.

Again all I am saying is that, for the sake of promoting understanding, discrimination toward ugly people exist. And really who here on this forum can claim that they have never saw someone with a look that you just don't like, that all of a sudden you are just not to sure how to respond to the person?

Those kind of withdrawal, although unintentional, does happen. People who are on the other end of the situation. Well let's just say that it's beyond inferiority complex, something that's just happening in their head. Rather it's a cultural inferiority, where it's physical and are actively dealing with it everyday of their lives.

I think you are missing the point. Not necessarily you, or the posters on this thread, but a vast majority of the populace will not like a physically disgusting person". If someone has a Really Bad Look they are stuffed.

What's even worse, is if they were "blessed" from birth, or an early age with their look, then they would have been despised through school, etc, which would stunt their social growth as well.

A very large part of our society worships beauty, and despises ugliness. An average looking guy gets by, as most people are average. That bottom 10% is what the other poster was talking about.

Indeed. While it's true that beauty can be a hindrance, butt ugliness is like a fucking road block. What's more disturbing is that rich people have a chance of repairing ugliness where poor people can't further dividing the classes apart - So in case you're born in the USA as an ugly person to a poor family, you're completely shafted. ;)

In the end, people like to stare and point out the different because of admiration, curiosity, fear, malvolence, disgust or trying to assert a pecking order - Discrimination by looks, color, age and sex is completely natural.

.What's more disturbing is that rich people have a chance of repairing ugliness where poor people can't further dividing the classes apart

I watched an interesting documentary on this a few days ago...they rexckon in the next 20 years...due to huge inroads into gene research...that the ageing process and many other ailments and naturals processes will be...as they put it..."curable"

But since these treatments will be expensive...only the rich will be able to afford them...therefore in the future...the classes will not just be seperated by social standings...but by genetic superiority also...frightening thought

Well, either way, how many of you actually know someone who stayed single all his life because he was "too ugly" to find a mate? I don't.

Since most people on here are younger: think about your parents' friends or "older" relatives - are most of them married, or have been married, or have a partner? Yep.
Are they generally beautiful or attractive? Nope.

Physically unattractive people find partners all the time (as do personality-wise unattractive people, btw).

Well, either way, how many of you actually know someone who stayed single all his life because he was "too ugly" to find a mate? I don't
That's because you don't know really ugly people :p

Besides, the point of this thread is more about general discrimination than mate-finding, which is important yet ultimately non-critical part of life.

That's not fair at all. :(

Whatever, you want to get harassed and eye-humped every time you go in public and you're not bundled up in a large coat (sometimes even when you are)?

I know the feeling...

...And getting complimented by old guys is... Unsettling, to say the least.

I would just like to point out that I am eye-humping all of you.

Right now.

I would just like to point out that I am eye-humping all of you.

Right now.

Good... masturbating in public would really be pointless if no one were eye-humping me:D

Look, I don't care if people look at me. I'm perfectly fine with someone looking at me and giving me a smile or waving hello or something, these things are fine. It's when it's this creepy stare that you can just feel or when someone follows you for a block or turns their car around and starts up with "oh, I saw you walking in this same direction 5 minutes ago..." and gives you some line. Or when you sit on the bus and the guy across from you stares at you for the entire 45 minute ride, occasionally licking his lips while you hope and pray that he gets off the bus before you do and bury your nose further in your book so he'll get the hint that you're not interested and leave you the fuck alone. Or maybe when you're 12 some construction workers whistle and make comments when you walk by. Or maybe people feel like they can invade your personal space because they want to hit on you more.

I totally agree that that kind of stuff is creepy, but I don't think it really has much to do with how pretty one is. I'm pretty ugly -- I get people confusing me for a guy all the time because I look so unfeminine, plus I'm fat and I have terrible fashion sense -- but I get stares and construction-worker whistles and unwelcome conversational efforts while riding public transit too. I've decided that the starers/whistlers are just deciding to make me uncomfortable for the fun of it. It's just a game, they're seeing if they can make you scared or twitchy because you look vulnerable.

Now, I'm not ugly in the sense that I'm asymmetrical. I'm just a little overweight and don't know how to dress, plus I need a much better haircut.

But still, I found this article disturbing.

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10311266


Please read the whole thing, it's worth it.

What are your thoughts on this issue? Is there any realistic chance of overcoming it? Is it necessary to overcome it? What are your real-life experiences with all this?

If it's a problem, fix it. Start here: www.askmen.com. (I'm not plugging the site by the way). These problems seem to be more in your personal habits, as few who take proper care of themselves and have confidence can be conidered ugly. Too often people use appearance as an excuse for inner inadequacy

That's why you have a greater disadvantage: the inferiority complex that comes with believing you are not and cannot be what people want.
Which again is only created as a result from treatment you get in a formative period.

In fact, those years in high school magnify this whole thing massively. Because everyone who "matters" is concerned with beauty and the ugly find themselves sidelined from early on, the physical issues are compounded by the emotional ones. By graduation, the beautiful have connections, experiences and are admired wherever they go. The ugly are wrecks, and it can take years to repair the damage - especially if there isn't any great academic prowess to make up for it.

That's not fair at all. :(
That article makes me go all emo.

*listens to Donnie Darko soundtrack*

That article makes me go all emo.

*listens to Donnie Darko soundtrack*

Emo? Pff, I'll remedy that Emo for you.

http://a886.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/75/l_33d86a024cd1811c983172c629fde3dd.jpg

Yeah, that's right, a pic of yours truly, taken earlier this morning. Emo, eat your heart out.

Shouldn't you have part of your hair dyed or something?

It was anti-Emo. Completely.

Emo? Pff, I'll remedy that Emo for you.

http://a886.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/75/l_33d86a024cd1811c983172c629fde3dd.jpg

Yeah, that's right, a pic of yours truly, taken earlier this morning. Emo, eat your heart out.

Shouldn't you have part of your hair dyed or something?

Well, either way, how many of you actually know someone who stayed single all his life because he was "too ugly" to find a mate? I don't.

Since most people on here are younger: think about your parents' friends or "older" relatives - are most of them married, or have been married, or have a partner? Yep.
Are they generally beautiful or attractive? Nope.

Physically unattractive people find partners all the time (as do personality-wise unattractive people, btw).Well, there's always me (both physically and personality-wise unattractive). But I've added the "Groucho Marx Relationship Qualifier," I will never get involved with anyone who would have me as a partner.

This article is flawed. I am a very attractive person in every respect, yet I'm constantly passed over for jobs, honours, and relationships. Maybe it's because I threaten the masculinity of other men, and the chastity of women? :confused:

(:p)

I will say this: The article, at the beginning, seemed to suggest that the fact that people need to look good at a job interview was somehow proof that looks mean a lot are missing the fact that looking good for an interview conveys self-respect, good grooming habits, and professionalism. It's not about being 'pretty,' it's about being neat and respectful.