NationStates Jolt Archive

I don't get it, and I'm hoping maybe you guys can help me understand. What's so great about World of Warcraft? I've played it and was unimpressed. People have said the graphics were the best, but EverQuest II, for example, has much more detailed graphics, a vastly greater variety of appearance, more choices for character class and race, and the combat system doesn't seem any different.

My wife and I tried it out on free trials and we really did give it an honest chance, because we were getting tired of EQ2. We also tried DDO and Rappelz at about the same time.

WoW is undeniably the biggest of all, but for the life of me I can't see why. It's not even any cheaper than other MMOs.

Comments?

WoW is a brand - Brands do well even with sub-par products.

Having a brand product is like adding 20 points to a review: It feels prettier, shinier and more functional than its competititors even if it actually isn't.

Don't ask me, I play Anarchy Online. ;p

Blizzard has (had) a history of making ace games (see the great warcraft series). Obviously a lot of the Warcraft geeks moved on to WoW. Also, WoW is easy to understand and control, even though getting the specifics right can be quite hard.

For myself, EQ1 caused so much agravation that i vowed never to play a sony game again.

Don't ask me, I play Anarchy Online. ;p
When they made Anarchy Online free to play, I tried it. I uninstalled it 5 minutes after making it out of the training area because it was so damn terrible.

WoW is a brand - Brands do well even with sub-par products.

Having a brand product is like adding 20 points to a review: It feels prettier, shinier and more functional than its competititors even if it actually isn't.

Must be...

One of the things that really blew me away is that, because WoW and EQ2 came out at the same time, they were often compared side by side. I have to assume Blizzard sent a kickback to many of the mainstream reviewers because they actually rated the graphics in EQ2 and WoW as EQUIVALENT. Their justification was that, while EQ2 has more detailed graphics, WoW was more 'artistic.'

Gawd. I've never heard of another example where a game's artistic graphics made it comparable to another with higher resolution and more detailed rendering.

I dont know how much they improved EQ2 over EQ1 but WoW has much faster gameplay then EQ does. IN EQ it was like your mana bar moved like it was underwater. There was ALOT more sitting around staring at a wall waiting for your stats to regenerate post battles.

Well it had a big following to begin with, from Warcraft.

Besides it being a good fantasy mmo I think a lot the appeal is the fast game play. I don't know how EQ2 is, but EQ1 is long as hell and usually hard to solo regular mobs (not even talking about names here) that are near your own level once you get into higher levels. In WoW you can very easily solo all the way to maximum level, no matter the class. Only time you need help are for instances, and maybe the occasional group quest. That appeals to me. And some of my acquaintance from EQ that left for WoW a few years ago also stated that was a big reason for them.. they could freakin solo effectively, didn't have to sit around waiting for a group and it generally wasn't such a grind (time it took to get xp and AA's).

I also just like environment (world) itself, the way the questing process is set up, and the races and class skills/abilities .. goes back to fast game play. But I don't feel WoW is superior to EQ1 at all. They're just different. Both have advantages over the other imo.

EQ1 noticed this as well and implemented some things that lessened down time and could help speed up the xp process (but the xp thing is a Veteran AA -- so it's not a choice for everyone -- and then it can only be used on 1 character). But the out of combat regeneration thing was the best thing they did. It really helps in soloing and groups. But when in a raid zone the 'swirl' timer goes up to like a few minutes.. where in regular zones it's set to start after you're out of combat (with no negative effects on you.. debuffs/dots/curses etc) for 30 seconds. Regens health mana and endurance pretty fast.

Gawd. I've never heard of another example where a game's artistic graphics made it comparable to another with higher resolution and more detailed rendering.

It's probably because EQ2's graphics were and are absolutely FUGLY. I'm sorry you can shove all the polygons you want into rendering a piece of shit and it'll still smell like a turd.

It's an MMO for the masses. Easy to get into and easy to stick with without a grind like some of the other MMO's on the market. More hardcore players can pimp out their toons with raid gear and compete in the arenas, while the casual crowd can stick with instances and a bit of world PvP if they feel like it.

It's probably because EQ2's graphics were and are absolutely FUGLY. I'm sorry you can shove all the polygons you want into rendering a piece of shit and it'll still smell like a turd.

I think EQ2 was going for a more 'lifelike' look as opposed to the 'cartoony' feel of WoW.

Which is perfectly fine. I just think way too much credit is given to WoW in that department.

When my wife and I played it we looked at the ground we were covering and the terrain was green grass with daisies... It was flat and looked like a carpet in a daycare center. The equivalent in EQ2 might be dry grass with 3-D plants up to your knees. Ugly maybe, but looked a helluvalot more realistic.

I think EQ2 was going for a more 'lifelike' look as opposed to the 'cartoony' feel of WoW.

Which is perfectly fine. I just think way too much credit is given to WoW in that department.


The look is what put me off WoW entirely.....Why it gets any credit in that Department at all bewilders me....

I love the graphics in Wow - no, they're not the most detailed or realistic but they work to produce the right atmosphere. You feel as though you can take deep breaths in the open plains of Mulgore, but tropical Feralas is cloying... Games like Oblivion have amazingly complex and details graphics, so much so that many people can't run them on their home pcs, but they don't have atmosphere. I think this contributes massively to the popularity of WoW in the sense that its possible to immerse yourself completely in that world.

I think the other things that make WoW popular are the amount of different play styles and options available each time you log on, and the fact that Blizzard have carefully constructed the game so that even the most inept can get good in-game rewards. Then there's a lot of humour in the game, such as the Innkeeper called Floyd Pinkus or "The One Ring" (plus 1 to all stats and carrying the strapline "Not as good as the Two Ring"). Of course, there's the social side too, but that would be the same with any MMO.

The look is what put me off WoW entirely.....Why it gets any credit in that Department at all bewilders me....

They kept to the style of the RTS games in terms of art. Since the RTS games were limited to sprites and rather low poly models in the later games they wanted to keep that feel. I like it, can't imagine if they'd tried ultra-realistic looks on the characters and places. I think the attempts at realism always look hideous, some downright creepy.

What do you people mean with "no grind"? It certainly doesn't sound like the game I played for a month, where the "gameplay" consisted of being sent from one kill, collect or kill AND collect "quest" to another, over and over and over. You grind for exp, you grind for gold, you grind for equipment, you grind for items, you grind to improve your skills. Grinding is all there is, there's nothing else going on except the pathetic excuse for PvP they have. You'd think there would be some war in World of Warcraft, but oh no. They should rename it to World of Collect Questing.

What do you people mean with "no grind"? It certainly doesn't sound like the game I played for a month, where the "gameplay" consisted of being sent from one kill, collect or kill AND collect "quest" to another, over and over and over. You grind for exp, you grind for gold, you grind for equipment, you grind for items, you grind to improve your skills. Grinding is all there is, there's nothing else going on except the pathetic excuse for PvP they have. You'd think there would be some war in World of Warcraft, but oh no. They should rename it to World of Collect Questing.

Quite. Grinding is what made me quit, as I stop playing a game once it starts feeling like work.

What do you people mean with "no grind"? It certainly doesn't sound like the game I played for a month, where the "gameplay" consisted of being sent from one kill, collect or kill AND collect "quest" to another, over and over and over. You grind for exp, you grind for gold, you grind for equipment, you grind for items, you grind to improve your skills. Grinding is all there is, there's nothing else going on except the pathetic excuse for PvP they have. You'd think there would be some war in World of Warcraft, but oh no. They should rename it to World of Collect Questing.

Ever visited a battleground ? :)

Although the truth is that world pvp is dead as a dead thing, sadly :/

What do you people mean with "no grind"? It certainly doesn't sound like the game I played for a month, where the "gameplay" consisted of being sent from one kill, collect or kill AND collect "quest" to another, over and over and over. You grind for exp, you grind for gold, you grind for equipment, you grind for items, you grind to improve your skills. Grinding is all there is, there's nothing else going on except the pathetic excuse for PvP they have. You'd think there would be some war in World of Warcraft, but oh no. They should rename it to World of Collect Questing.

It's not a grind compared to EQ1 and probably some of the other older mmo's.

I remember when I started WoW (after it had been out already a year) and some people would be complaining in general chat or trade about how long it was taking them to level or something.. Some EQ1 vets would tell them to stuff it .. they don't know what grinding is.

Reminded me of "You think you got it rough having to walk up the street to the bus stop? Well when I was a wee there weren't no buses and we had to walk through knee deep snow, 5 miles ... uphill both ways!" :D

It's relative really..

The longer I play WoW at a time, the more I feel it's not going so fast .... but let me have been playing EQ1 for a while (month or so) and go back to WoW and it feels much faster. lol

And it sounds like mmorpgs just aren't your type of game.

What do you people mean with "no grind"? It certainly doesn't sound like the game I played for a month, where the "gameplay" consisted of being sent from one kill, collect or kill AND collect "quest" to another, over and over and over. You grind for exp, you grind for gold, you grind for equipment, you grind for items, you grind to improve your skills. Grinding is all there is, there's nothing else going on except the pathetic excuse for PvP they have. You'd think there would be some war in World of Warcraft, but oh no. They should rename it to World of Collect Questing.

You've never tried Lineage II, have you? Or EQ1, or FFXII? If you think WoW has slow progression, you need to try out a few more games in the MMO market. Compared to those other titles, WoW is a speed run.

*snip OP*

Comments?

*toes NS line*

Every mmorpg sucks booty ... except our Dear Leader, Nation States, which sucks eleph-... is really great.

Ever visited a battleground ? :)

Although the truth is that world pvp is dead as a dead thing, sadly :/

World PVP is alive and well on PVP servers.

You've never tried Lineage II, have you? Or EQ1, or FFXII? If you think WoW has slow progression, you need to try out a few more games in the MMO market. Compared to those other titles, WoW is a speed run.

I didn't say that. In my first, and only, month on WoW I leveled a rogue to level 45 and a handful of other classes to between 10 and 26, so if anything, leveling is much too quick in WoW. What I didn't like was that there is very little else to do but grind. I mean, what else can you do? Use it as a glorified IRC client? I guess using some of the non-worthless, but still rather useless, skills to help other players might be fun for a while. Grind for a day to get items to tailor one of the few items you can do that doesn't suck and then sell it to someone? But what else is there besides grinding your way to the top level and after that grind for equipment?

World PVP is alive and well on PVP servers.
I played on a PvP server and in some areas I was ganked a dozen times a day, and there's battlegrounds of course, but I didn't say it was non-existent, I said it was bad.

Quite. Grinding is what made me quit, as I stop playing a game once it starts feeling like work.That's something I found is putting me off of enjoying the Neverwinter Nights 2 expansion. The plot revolves around a curse that has turned you into a form of vampire, complete with penalties if you fail to feed on time.

I didn't say that. In my first, and only, month on WoW I leveled a rogue to level 45 and a handful of other classes to between 10 and 26, so if anything, leveling is much too quick in WoW. What I didn't like was that there is very little else to do but grind. I mean, what else can you do? Use it as a glorified IRC client? I guess using some of the non-worthless, but still rather useless, skills to help other players might be fun for a while. Grind for a day to get items to tailor one of the few items you can do that doesn't suck and then sell it to someone? But what else is there besides grinding your way to the top level and after that grind for equipment?

Ah, then it seems you have a dislike with the MMO genre as a whole, then. After all, there isn't much point to any of those games if you look at it in terms of fighting for equipment and levels. Put in enough time and you can create a godly character with the rarest of items, and then get bored as you do nothing with that character because there is nothing to do. I don't like that kind of play, either, but I stick with it for the good times I get playing with friends. It's the same reason I play any other multiplayer game nowadays, just to have fun and win a few rounds with my friends.

I didn't say that. In my first, and only, month on WoW I leveled a rogue to level 45 and a handful of other classes to between 10 and 26, so if anything, leveling is much too quick in WoW. What I didn't like was that there is very little else to do but grind. I mean, what else can you do? Use it as a glorified IRC client? I guess using some of the non-worthless, but still rather useless, skills to help other players might be fun for a while. Grind for a day to get items to tailor one of the few items you can do that doesn't suck and then sell it to someone? But what else is there besides grinding your way to the top level and after that grind for equipment?


I played on a PvP server and in some areas I was ganked a dozen times a day, and there's battlegrounds of course, but I didn't say it was non-existent, I said it was bad.

What else is there in any of them? It's what you enjoy, and what you make of it. Obviously you do not enjoy this type of genre. What are you looking for in a game?

World PVP is alive and well on PVP servers.
Ganking is not PvP worth counting.

What else is there in any of them? It's what you enjoy, and what you make of it. Obviously you do not enjoy this type of genre. What are you looking for in a game?

I used to mud (quit a couple of years ago since it was ruining my life...) and they did everything MMORPGs do, but on a smaller scale and without the graphics of course, but they also did a ton that MMORPGs don't. I have piles of hand-drawn maps still lying around somewhere, maps which I had to create to understand what an area looked like, how to get around them efficiently and how they were connected, and given enough time to think I could probably still think of a hundred or more quests and their solutions. Actual quests, with meaningful rewards and involving actual exploration and enjoying events created especially for the quest, and not just "kill 20 murlocs". Knowledge of the world truly meant something, levels and items was very much secondary to that.

In WoW everything is point and click, thinking is rarely required and you actually see most of what the game has to offer during the first 5 minutes when you do the quests in the starting area. The more I think about it, the less I think it's even possible to copy the really good bits from MUDs, because they just don't translate to 3D graphics. But even compared to offline RPGs, WoW, and I assume all other MMORPGs, fall far short.

I'll resist the temptation to write a really long list of things I want, and just mention what I think are the main things, and that is to get away from everything being a numbers game, and that enough content should exist for a player of any level to do fun things while staying at that level. Leveling up should be part of the game, it shouldn't be the game itself.

I used to mud (quit a couple of years ago since it was ruining my life...) and they did everything MMORPGs do, but on a smaller scale and without the graphics of course, but they also did a ton that MMORPGs don't. I have piles of hand-drawn maps still lying around somewhere, maps which I had to create to understand what an area looked like, how to get around them efficiently and how they were connected, and given enough time to think I could probably still think of a hundred or more quests and their solutions. Actual quests, with meaningful rewards and involving actual exploration and enjoying events created especially for the quest, and not just "kill 20 murlocs". Knowledge of the world truly meant something, levels and items was very much secondary to that.

In WoW everything is point and click, thinking is rarely required and you actually see most of what the game has to offer during the first 5 minutes when you do the quests in the starting area. The more I think about it, the less I think it's even possible to copy the really good bits from MUDs, because they just don't translate to 3D graphics. But even compared to offline RPGs, WoW, and I assume all other MMORPGs, fall far short.

I'll resist the temptation to write a really long list of things I want, and just mention what I think are the main things, and that is to get away from everything being a numbers game, and that enough content should exist for a player of any level to do fun things while staying at that level. Leveling up should be part of the game, it shouldn't be the game itself.

Spore will be along those lines from what I've seen. Maybe you'll dig it. I'm looking forward to it, and hope it's practically endless in what all can be done throughout.

And those MUDs sound cool. Bet it wouldn't be my bag though, cause I like graphics for immersion.

Gawd. I've never heard of another example where a game's artistic graphics made it comparable to another with higher resolution and more detailed rendering.

Sorry, I totally agree with you on WoW, but I'm gonna have to go against you here. Crysis is clearly the best looking game ever made, but in the end, it really was just you running through the jungle for six hours. Bioshock, on the other hand, didn't look as good technically, but it kicked the shit out of Crysis artistically.

Spore will be along those lines from what I've seen. Maybe you'll dig it. I'm looking forward to it, and hope it's practically endless in what all can be done throughout.

And those MUDs sound cool. Bet it wouldn't be my bag though, cause I like graphics for immersion.

I'm looking forward to Spore as well. I don't think there's anything broken with game design in general outside of MMOs, but the gaming industry still needs these unique and quirky games such as Spore. Hopefully it'll turn out great and will encourage other companies to take some chances with their games.

Sorry, I totally agree with you on WoW, but I'm gonna have to go against you here. Crysis is clearly the best looking game ever made, but in the end, it really was just you running through the jungle for six hours. Bioshock, on the other hand, didn't look as good technically, but it kicked the shit out of Crysis artistically.

Crysis... That sounds familiar... is that an FPS?

Crysis... That sounds familiar... is that an FPS?

Dude, where the fuck have you been for the last year?

Dude, where the fuck have you been for the last year?

EQ2 :/

I prefer Soldier Front and Planeshift!

You don't have to be thinking about WoW all your waking life to get anywhere in WoW. Most other MMOs require it. You can play WoW casually and still have a good time.

Sorry, I totally agree with you on WoW, but I'm gonna have to go against you here. Crysis is clearly the best looking game ever made, but in the end, it really was just you running through the jungle for six hours. Bioshock, on the other hand, didn't look as good technically, but it kicked the shit out of Crysis artistically.See, I disagree with you there. To me Bioshock was you running around in a dark and creepy place for the sake of running around in a dark and creepy place. I'd rather the jungle.

When they made Anarchy Online free to play, I tried it. I uninstalled it 5 minutes after making it out of the training area because it was so damn terrible.

It was so damn terrible that I've played it for nearly 3 years now, made two characters 220, one 202, and another 200. :( It's so terrible that FunCom has started adding lots and lots of new content to make it even more terrible. :( buhuuu

Or maybe not everyone finds it terrible. ;p

I didn't say that. In my first, and only, month on WoW I leveled a rogue to level 45 and a handful of other classes to between 10 and 26, so if anything, leveling is much too quick in WoW. What I didn't like was that there is very little else to do but grind. I mean, what else can you do? Use it as a glorified IRC client? I guess using some of the non-worthless, but still rather useless, skills to help other players might be fun for a while. Grind for a day to get items to tailor one of the few items you can do that doesn't suck and then sell it to someone? But what else is there besides grinding your way to the top level and after that grind for equipment?

Yeah, OK, if you simplify it to that base level, what is there to do in almost any CRPG but grind your way along? At the end, it's all about getting as strong as possible to beat the final boss, and it's been that way since, oh...Akalabeth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akalabeth) maybe? It's probably the wrong genre for you. I for one enjoy seeing the effort I put in reap rewards, and also the cooperative aspect of instances and raids - no experience i've had in any game beats the feeling of going against a raid boss for so many nights then finally downing it and sharing that with a group of people you've been playing with for ages. It's not a grind to me, I barely even care about the equipment at that point. I play for the challenge involved in killing stuff first. :p

I don't play any other MMOs so i cant comment on them in comparison. My friends play WoW so I wouldn't change anyway unless they did.

I played on a PvP server and in some areas I was ganked a dozen times a day, and there's battlegrounds of course, but I didn't say it was non-existent, I said it was bad.

I'm a PvEer mainly (although I play on a PvP server) so I can level with you that the PvP system needs some work - I don't think it's objectively bad at all, I still have a good deal of fun with it, but there are numerous things that need some tuning before it'll be as good as the PvE side of things is for me.

WoW=waste of money. I mean if it was buy the disk then play for free that would be one thing but people play monthly!:eek: I mean the game is only so-so.

I tried it and thought it was rather boring as well..

Give me NWN online any day over some dull money-leeching MMO...

Well, you said you came from EQ2. EQ2 had a really rough start but it looked at WoW and picked out the good aspects and, as it stands now, has taken and improved upon all those aspects in all areas except for PvP (I guess...I don't PvP so I don't know for sure) and raid scripting. The reason WoW did so much better is because EQ2 was complete trash and a completely different game when it launched and it's improved by leaps and bounds. If you're bored of EQ2, though, going to WoW is just asking for disappointment.

Yeah, OK, if you simplify it to that base level, what is there to do in almost any CRPG but grind your way along? At the end, it's all about getting as strong as possible to beat the final boss, and it's been that way since, oh...Akalabeth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akalabeth) maybe? It's probably the wrong genre for you

Perhaps I need to be more specific then. I'll give you a few examples just off the top of my head of things I think would improve WoW.

Say that in order to have a guild you would have to present a solid case as to how it would fit into the world and what the general roleplay of the guild would be. Two examples are a guild that defends a certain town and another guild that is set upon the destruction of the same town. There would be frequent battles around this town, and people in these two guilds would always have something to do that is not related to leveling up. The guilds would also have to enforce a certain standard in behavior, and that would be pretty effective at cutting down on the incredible levels of rudeness and stupidity in WoW. It would also make PvP much more interesting.

Another thing would be to have a set number of times that equipment can be repaired, and perhaps also force players to rely on other players of a certain class or with certain skills to do the repairing. This would vastly increase the player driven economy and player interaction.

Obviously something would have to be done about the randomness of collecting equipment in WoW for the previous example to work, or work well at least. Perhaps completely doing away with getting most non-unique equipment randomly from mobs you kill, and let it all be carried by special mobs in a predictable fashion, or be done through quests (and not WoW-style quests that can only be done once). That would make it much more meaningful to gather a party and do something.

Now, this isn't my "dream game" or anything, just a few things I can think of that could make WoW a more meaningful experience than a race to the next level/piece of equipment. It can be done, and it would still be the same genre.

PvP-wise, EQII has a few benefits, but WoW leads with their system. It's simple more fair, less abused and more vast.

PvE-wise, WoW had the advantage of having larger raids available. They have, unfortunately, strayed away from this and we'll see if this hurts them in the future.

WoW is Blizzard. They have a history of making great games (Blackthorne, Lost Vikings, Warcraft series, Starcraft series).

They're both about equal in terms of patching, but EQII just loves to dish out expansion after expansion - that means expenses above and beyond a monthly payment. WoW has had one expansion so far.

Overall, EQII is far more PvE and WoW is far more PvP with still a lot of PvE oppurtunities. More oppurtunities = win.

Also, why choose between four different healing classes that essentially have the same strength? Classes in EQII aren't nuanced enough, so it doesn't matter how many there are. Also, you're limited in number of characters, so you have a lot of choices, but in WoW, you can actually make one character for each possible choice. Can't do that in EQII.

EQII graphics are stylized and somewhat wanna-be. WoW graphics are cartoonish and not wanna-be. Therefore, they are equal in terms of graphics.

Overall, I'd play either.

Edit:
MUDs are really awesome, but the best one I found, where it was about roleplaying and such and levels were meaningless (monsters could always one-shot you anyway, and for the most powerful things, you needed to do special stuff), closed down. That left me searching and I found a few good ones, but they are really difficult to get into.

I have no Idea. MMORPGs don't have any draw for me. I just think its a waste of time.

I don't get it, and I'm hoping maybe you guys can help me understand. What's so great about World of Warcraft? I've played it and was unimpressed. People have said the graphics were the best, but EverQuest II, for example, has much more detailed graphics, a vastly greater variety of appearance, more choices for character class and race, and the combat system doesn't seem any different.

My wife and I tried it out on free trials and we really did give it an honest chance, because we were getting tired of EQ2. We also tried DDO and Rappelz at about the same time.

WoW is undeniably the biggest of all, but for the life of me I can't see why. It's not even any cheaper than other MMOs.

Comments?

World of Warcraft is completely mauged by RuneScape--yes, it is that bad.

Say that in order to have a guild you would have to present a solid case as to how it would fit into the world and what the general roleplay of the guild would be. Two examples are a guild that defends a certain town and another guild that is set upon the destruction of the same town. There would be frequent battles around this town, and people in these two guilds would always have something to do that is not related to leveling up. The guilds would also have to enforce a certain standard in behavior, and that would be pretty effective at cutting down on the incredible levels of rudeness and stupidity in WoW. It would also make PvP much more interesting.That would fucking suck. My guild is just a bunch of friends' friends that we can make party with us as needed. It would suck if you need some sort of justification. I'd end up one of the already plentiful people who spend an hour yelling "LFG to do blah!" (I play late at night, so there is often only a handful of people in my zone). Sure there is a friend's list, but I don't know allot of these people, I don't know when they make new characters and abandon their old ones, I probably wouldn't know them period if it weren't for the fact that they are in my guild.

Also, nothing will cut the stupidity from WoW. As it has been stated many times on this forum, you can not legislate stupidity out of humanity.

Another thing would be to have a set number of times that equipment can be repaired, and perhaps also force players to rely on other players of a certain class or with certain skills to do the repairing. This would vastly increase the player driven economy and player interaction.I would not want to be forced to have another player fix my shit. First, they would gouge the hell out of you because they can (they have a skill that you need to live, if you don't like the price, you can have fun dying).
Also there is the whole playing at 400, I mentioned earlier. I could have to travel through several zones just to find someone. This could involve spending half an hour running, or spending half an hour worth of gold (for a melee char, your shit could need repairs more frequently than this).
Sure, I could just have all my characters with this skill, but I like to stick to casters (I get my ass handed to me in melee combat). Do I really want to use up one of my skills for armor repair?

Obviously something would have to be done about the randomness of collecting equipment in WoW for the previous example to work, or work well at least. Perhaps completely doing away with getting most non-unique equipment randomly from mobs you kill, and let it all be carried by special mobs in a predictable fashion, or be done through quests (and not WoW-style quests that can only be done once). That would make it much more meaningful to gather a party and do something.
If I were forced to use PC armorers, I'd probably just redo the quest a few dozen times and stockpile the armor in a bank. I'd be cheaper and easier. IMO, it would be completely worth the monotony.

It is obvious that you want something from WoW that I do not. You want to be able to sit down, and get into the game for a few hours. I do not. I just want the game to have something to do when I am bored, or maybe play with some friends. I think people like how casual WoW is, and I think your changes would make the game much less casual.

Gawd. I've never heard of another example where a game's artistic graphics made it comparable to another with higher resolution and more detailed rendering.

Art Matters

Enough of the quibbles -- let's get into Corruption's major accomplishment: the graphics. Or should I say, the artwork. After a few relatively simple early areas, Corruption blooms into colorful and elaborate designs that are thick with atmosphere. The veiny organic walls of a living spaceship pulse and blink at Samus' squishy footsteps; strobe lights and giant steaming tubes give a claustrophobic enemy stronghold a foreboding you feel in your gut; rusty machines creak and whir to life, their intricate clockwork mechanics telling the story of an ancient alien culture better than text or a voiceover ever could.

Amazing as it is to say about a Wii game, Corruption contains some of the best visuals in gaming, period. It can't always mask the hardware's technical limitations (pixelation every time you're up close waiting for a door to open, for example), but in most cases the lighting, attention to detail, and wonderfully cohesive and imaginative art direction more than make up for the Wii's lack of raw horsepower. Put it this way: I found myself wandering through rooms two or three times just to look at them. How many games on any system can you say that about?

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3162330

Even in the supreme skepticism of that reactionary day one -- not knee-jerk, just genuinely alert -- I loved, loved TF2's cosmetic makeover. "Cartoon come to life" isn't compliment enough. Some cartoons are better animated, more distinctively stylized than others -- and, by analogy, this is among the best. The game's piss-and-vinegar crew snarls, winces, bellows, and sneers. From the Road Runner Scout to the Wile E. Coyote Engineer, they backpedal and leap with human momentum, and their absurd flag quests and wall-to-wall bases become a kind of Cold War Merrie Melodies. (To best appreciate the achievement here, think of the last online FPS of TF's nature to visually justify its barbarians in gang-colored clothing with anything other than "outer-space bloodsport." I'm drawing a big fat blank, Shadowrun included.)

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3163581

WoW's graphic have charm, charm will always lead to divided opinions.

*snip*

I think you misunderstand, and perhaps I should have been clearer. I'm against enforcing certain behavior, but very much for encouraging it. The changes to guilds would do this if being in a guild was attractive enough. I'm sure you can think of any number of benefits the game might give you for being in a guild. This of course doesn't mean that you can't have less beneficial groups and call them something else. Clans perhaps? They could function just like guilds do today, but less people would want to be in them because of the fun and benefits you get from proper guilds. And it CAN cut down on stupidity, I know because this was pretty much how guilds worked in another game I played. If you wanted to be part of something great, something fun, you had to behave, and people for the most part did.

You also complain about having to do things together with other people in an MMORPG, a genre that is all about massive multiplaying, and I find that very strange. But hey, if you're in a guild/clan you'd get your shit fixed by your guildmates for absolutely free every time. Yay! And besides, it was only an example. The goal with it was to increase player interaction, and I'm sure you can think of other methods.