NationStates Jolt Archive

Which Starfleet brat was better?

I'm going with Jake as he was human and not the little whiny bitch that Wesley was. The problem was that the TNG writers made Wesley the perfect little boy scout and protege of the Senior Staff of the Enterprise. He didn't act like as an adolescent should.

Jake on the other hand was like a normal kid. He got into trouble and wanted to go his own path and get out on his own. He was flawed as all humans are. He had fears unlike the goody two shoes 14 year old who kissed Picard's ass.

Wesley Crusher had the full support and protection of the enterprise. Jake Sisco left the protection of his starfleet father in order to report on the war from the front lines.

Gee, who wins?

However, Naomi Wildman > All

On a side note, how many little Kirks are running around the galaxy? He has to have hundreds of kids. I don't recall condoms being part of the away team's kits.

Which Starfleet brat was better?

I'm going with Jake as he was human and not the little whiny bitch that Wesley was. The problem was that the TNG writers made Wesley the perfect little boy scout and protege of the Senior Staff of the Enterprise. He didn't act like as an adolescent should.

Jake on the other hand was like a normal kid. He got into trouble and wanted to go his own path and get out on his own. He was flawed as all humans are. He had fears unlike the goody two shoes 14 year old who kissed Picard's ass.

my vote goes to Naomi Wildman (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Naomi_Wildman)

On a side note, how many little Kirks are running around the galaxy? He has to have hundreds of kids. I don't recall condoms being part of the away team's kits.
ah, but how many did he actually sleep with?

not that many.

Wil Wheaton is a born bitch. On and off the screen.

... I think I'd like to add to the list 4 'starfleet brats' who would kick both Wesley and Jake's butts.

Ro Laren, Jean-Luc Picard, Keiko and Guinan (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Rascals)

... I think I'd like to add to the list 4 'starfleet brats' who would kick both Wesley and Jake's butts.

Ro Laren, Jean-Luc Picard, Keiko and Guinan (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Rascals)

Well played.

I applauded the day when "they" decided to send Wesley to "god school." He was a tiresome little delinquent. (I was also quite pleased when they, apparently, decided to send Kes to the same place).

However, for Star Fleet brats, how about the following.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Amanda_Rogers

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Q_%28Junior%29

Which Starfleet brat was better?

I'm going with Jake as he was human and not the little whiny bitch that Wesley was. The problem was that the TNG writers made Wesley the perfect little boy scout and protege of the Senior Staff of the Enterprise. He didn't act like as an adolescent should.

Jake on the other hand was like a normal kid. He got into trouble and wanted to go his own path and get out on his own. He was flawed as all humans are. He had fears unlike the goody two shoes 14 year old who kissed Picard's ass.

Wesley outgrew the human race. Striking out on ones own path doesn't get anymore extreme than deciding "space-time continuum. Been there, done that, wore the pajamas."

Plus, Sisko was the child of the only obnoxious desegregationist in a universe that had been colorblind for 4 hundred years. No one even batted an eye when Gordi introduced a white girl as his sister, but Sisko wouldn't set foot in a fantasy room because it was made to look like a place that was racist in a time before even the actor remembers, let alone the character (he wouldn't watch his friend's piano recital in a holographic Las Vegas). That would be like me refusing to eat pizza because the Romans used to keep Celts as slaves.

ah, but how many did he actually sleep with?

not that many.

Of his own kids?

I realize it was statistically likely given the time, but it was only supposed to be a 4 year mission. And I don't think he ever met an Okampa.

That would be like me refusing to eat pizza because the Romans used to keep Celts as slaves.
Ah yes, as always with Star Trek when the word 'plot' appears, the word 'hole' is never far behind.

Which Starfleet brat was better?

I'm going with Jake as he was human and not the little whiny bitch that Wesley was. The problem was that the TNG writers made Wesley the perfect little boy scout and protege of the Senior Staff of the Enterprise. He didn't act like as an adolescent should.

Jake on the other hand was like a normal kid. He got into trouble and wanted to go his own path and get out on his own. He was flawed as all humans are. He had fears unlike the goody two shoes 14 year old who kissed Picard's ass.

But you have to remember that the Federation was supposed to be an idealized form of the human race. That's why they throw in all those little asides with things like 6 year-olds learning advanced calculus and the cold being "some disease people used to get."

Jake, by that standard, wasn't just "flawed and human." He was retarded.

Humanity's flaws are supposed to be represented by the aliens. That's why I got so annoyed about Sisko having a bug up his ass about racism. It would have been a non issue for his great-grandfather.

But, that would be why it was not set on a Federation Station, but an alien one. The characters were all supposed to be flawed. Hence Sisko's criticism of Starfleet Command "it's easy to be a saint when you're living in paradise, (conveniently neglecting to mention that it was a paradise of their own creation)."

Ah yes, as always with Star Trek when the word 'plot' appears, the word 'hole' is never far behind.

I'm pretty sure it was just because Avery Brooks wanted overt anti-racism to be a part of it. Actors who play star trek characters are notorious for getting mad at people for being Star Trek fans, but where other actors get angry at them for only appreciating Star Trek, not the rest of their body of work, Brooks had a reputation for getting angry with people for not appreciating "Black Actors'" bodies of work.

After a couple of seasons I just got the feeling that Captain Sisko was playing Avery Brooks, not the other way around.

I was stranded on a planet, Just me and Spock
We met a nasty nazi alien who locked our asses up
We found a hunk of crystal and a metal piece of bed
We made a laser phaser gun and shot him in the head

Bust a move, Tog

I was standing on the bridge when Sulu came to me
His eyes were full of tears he said "Captain, can't you see
the ship is gonna blow do something I beseech"
I grabbed a tribble and some chewing gum and stopped the warp core breach

And I say,
Bounce a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish
Thats the way we do things, lad, we're making shit up as we wish
The Klingons and the Romulans pose no threat to us
'Cause if we find we're in a bind we just make some shit up

And though he's just a child, and some think him a twit
Wesley is the master when it comes to making up some shit
He's the guy you want with you when you go out in space
Now if only he could beam those pimples off his face

And if you're at a party on the starship Enterprise
And the karaoke player just plain old up and dies
Set up a neutrino field inside a can of peas
Hold on to Geordi's visor and sing into Data's knee

And I say
Bounce a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish
Thats the way we do things lad, we're making shit up as we wish
The Klingons and the Romulans pose no threat to us
'Cause if we find we're in a bind we just make some shit up

Sisko's on a mission to go no bloody place
He loiters on a space station above Bajoran space
The wormhole's opened up and now they come from near and far
We'll keep the booze but please send back the fucking Jem-hadar

What is with the Klingons, remember in the day
They looked like Puerto Ricans and they dressed in gold lame
Now they look like heavy metal rockers from the dead
With leather pants and frizzy hair and lobsters on their heads

And I say
Bounce a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish
Thats the way we do things lad, we're making shit up as we wish
The Klingons and the Romulans pose no threat to us
'Cause if we find we're in a bind we just make some shit up

Well, I was stuck on Voyager, pounding on the door
When suddently it dawned on me I've seen this show before
Perhaps I'm in a warp bubble and slightly out of phase
'Cause it was way back in the sixties when they called it "Lost in Space"

We were looking for a way to make the ratings soar
So we orchestrated an encounter with the Borg
Normally you'd think that that would get us into shit
But this one has a smashing ass and a lovely set of tits

And I say
Bounce a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish
Thats the way we do things lad, we're making shit up as we wish
The Klingons and the Romulans pose no threat to us
'Cause if we find we're in a bind we're totally screwed but nevermind
We'll pull something out of our behinds, we just make some shit up

Wil Wheaton is a born bitch. On and off the screen.

He makes a good reporter for GTA though. Don't deny him his moment of grace there, nor his performance in "Jane White is Sick and Twisted". :mad:

Oh yeah, and ... alasomorphs AND Robin Lefler FTW!

But you have to remember that the Federation was supposed to be an idealized form of the human race. That's why they throw in all those little asides with things like 6 year-olds learning advanced calculus and the cold being "some disease people used to get."

Jake, by that standard, wasn't just "flawed and human." He was retarded.

Humanity's flaws are supposed to be represented by the aliens. That's why I got so annoyed about Sisko having a bug up his ass about racism. It would have been a non issue for his great-grandfather.

But, that would be why it was not set on a Federation Station, but an alien one. The characters were all supposed to be flawed. Hence Sisko's criticism of Starfleet Command "it's easy to be a saint when you're living in paradise, (conveniently neglecting to mention that it was a paradise of their own creation)."

Don't forget that DS9 was a frontier station...your Earth culture would not be common there...maybe a poor analogy but think New York 'society' and some wild west frontier town...

So Jake lives on his wits...and Wes is like a young English nobleman on his 'Grand Tour' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour).

I'll not comment on the racism side as I really never that much DS9.

...and Wes is like a young English nobleman on his 'Grand Tour' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour).The W-person is a faggish annoying retard that should never have been in the series in the first place. And making him into a transdimensional "traveler" was just utter bullshit, but at least it removed this worst of all Star Trek characters from the show.

That would be like me refusing to eat pizza because the Romans used to keep Celts as slaves.

No.

And on this question... It's really tough. I'm tempted to say it's a tie, they both lose...
But it's going to have to be Jake. If only because we got a Nog with him.

No.

Care to elaborate?

Care to elaborate?

Well, for that to work, Black people would have had to have become completely extinct thousands of years ago, like the Celts. I don't remember this happening, although my memory may just be a little fuzzy.

Shockingly(:rolleyes:) I am once again the only one to have actually liked Wesley Crusher. I thought his character could have been handled better, but he was likable. He was far from perfect, if people would bother noticing. (Most of the cases where he "saves the ship" are only because he either caused the problem or came aboard after most people were already affected...though certain episodes should not have been made at all, like The Game or The Naked Now.)

I also really liked Jake Sisko, and Naomi Wildman. All three were interesting and fun in their own unique ways.

Well, for that to work, Black people would have had to have become completely extinct thousands of years ago, like the Celts. I don't remember this happening, although my memory may just be a little fuzzy.

Celts, extinct? Why wasn't I told? *disintegrates.*

jake sisco because he is the key character in one of my favorite star trek episodes.

the one where benjamin gets caught in some kind of alternate universe and jake devotes his whole life to getting him back. he gives up everything he ever planned about his life and works on whatever scientific problem is key to getting his dad back. then as a very old man he manages it.

Celts, extinct? Why wasn't I told? *disintegrates.*

A very, very, very, very (repeat ad nausiem) long time ago.

A very, very, very, very (repeat ad nausiem) long time ago.

Uh, no, they're not. Not even close.

The culture is mostly gone, yes, but the Celtic people still make up a significant portion of the population of Ireland, as well as Great Britain to a lesser extent.

Uh, no, they're not. Not even close.

The culture is mostly gone, yes, but the Celtic people still make up a significant portion of the population of Ireland, as well as Great Britain to a lesser extent.

Not to mention Brittany (the French Province not the American slut). And there are a significant number of us in the U.S.

Uh, no, they're not. Not even close.

The culture is mostly gone, yes, but the Celtic people still make up a significant portion of the population of Ireland, as well as Great Britain to a lesser extent.

Again, I repeat: No.

The culture is mostly gone

still exists in wales and Ireland to a varying extent actually

Again, I repeat: No.
Oh? Perhaps you should try investigating the issue before mindlessly claiming something.

Not to mention Brittany (the French Province not the American slut). And there are a significant number of us in the U.S.
Indeed, especially Brittany.
still exists in wales and Ireland to a varying extent actually
Hence why I said mostly gone, not all gone.

Oh? Perhaps you should try investigating the issue before mindlessly claiming something.


Hush now, you don't want to start getting into a debate over something you clearly have no knowledge about. Seriously, it's just silly.
Celts are dead, gone, extinct, terminado. Deal.

Hush now, you don't want to start getting into a debate over something you clearly have no knowledge about. Seriously, it's just silly.
Celts are dead, gone, extinct, terminado. Deal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Celts

Defeated you are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Celts

Defeated you are.

Ah yes, Wikipedia, that well known, never wrong edited-by-the-public information source. Well done for trusting that.

They're dead. They're Extinct. I really don't think we're missing out on much. Unless someone invents a time machine, we're never going to see another Celt. What a shame.
What's the big problem anyway?

Ah yes, Wikipedia, that well known, never wrong edited-by-the-public information source. Well done for trusting that.

They're dead. They're Extinct. I really don't think we're missing out on much. Unless someone invents a time machine, we're never going to see another Celt. What a shame.
What's the big problem anyway?

Why do you want us gone so badly?

And, are you a puppet of Fass? You argue like him.

Please stop saying "Us" when referring to celts. Unless you're a time-traveller or a zombie, you're not one of them long-dead Welshfolk.

Prove it, Fass.

Why do you want us gone so badly?

And, are you a puppet of Fass? You argue like him.

Please stop saying "Us" when referring to celts. Unless you're a time-traveller or a zombie, you're not one of them long-dead Welshfolk.

It's Tsaphiel.
And, I'm sorry, did you just ask me to prove that you're a zombie/time traveller/time travelling zombie?

Here's another nail for your ideological coffin.

http://home.exetel.com.au/manxman/Modern%20Celts.htm

Prove it, Fass.

It's Tsaphiel.
And, I'm sorry, did you just ask me to prove that you're a zombie/time traveller/time travelling zombie?

Here's another nail for your ideological coffin.

http://home.exetel.com.au/manxman/Modern%20Celts.htm

I'm beginning to see you're a lost cause. Posting links to websites doesn't mean that the celts aren't extinct. That's not how the Universe works love.

I'm beginning to see you're a lost cause. Posting links to websites doesn't mean that the celts aren't extinct. That's not how the Universe works love.

Both Kyronea and I have cited evidence. Have you? Where is it?

Both Kyronea and I have cited evidence. Have you? Where is it?

In the world. There are no Celts in the world. There is your evidence, you know "Real Life". What you've shown me are websites, websites with no proof or evidence of any kind.
You'd rather put all your faith in a website than believe a fact that everyone knows to be true. If someone put up a site claiming that there isn't actually such a thing as "Water", would you believe it?

In the world. There are no Celts in the world. There is your evidence, you know "Real Life". What you've shown me are websites, websites with no proof or evidence of any kind.
You'd rather put all your faith in a website than believe a fact that everyone knows to be true. If someone put up a site claiming that there isn't actually such a thing as "Water", would you believe it?

So you have no statistical/historical/scientific facts to back up your statement?

So you have no statistical/historical/scientific facts to back up your statement?

Hang on, Hang on, you're saying that reality isn't a reliable source?

Hang on, Hang on, you're saying that reality isn't a reliable source?

Dear, you argue like Fass, stating opinions with no facts to back them. Sorry, your arguments simply don't fly.

Dear, you argue like Fass, stating opinions with no facts to back them. Sorry, your arguments simply don't fly.

Fine, you live in your fantasy world where Celts still exist, fairies flit about and hamburgers eat people.
I'll stick to the real world thanks.

Fine, you live in your fantasy world where Celts still exist, fairies flit about and hamburgers eat people.
I'll stick to the real world thanks.

Repetition, invective, name-calling - all are weak arguments. Give me numbers and citable sources.

Fine, you live in your fantasy world where Celts still exist, fairies flit about and hamburgers eat people.
I'll stick to the real world thanks.

So... we should believe you because you say we should?

Tsaphiel, we have posted evidence of the existence of Modern Celts. You have yet to provide any evidence for your argument. Please provide some.

jake sisco because he is the key character in one of my favorite star trek episodes.

the one where benjamin gets caught in some kind of alternate universe and jake devotes his whole life to getting him back. he gives up everything he ever planned about his life and works on whatever scientific problem is key to getting his dad back. then as a very old man he manages it.

That was perhaps one of the greatest episodes ever. It certainly rivals "The Inner Light" (which was TNG's best episode)

That was perhaps one of the greatest episodes ever. It certainly rivals "The Inner Light" (which was TNG's best episode)

it would be so much easier if you gave a brief synopsis instead of expecting that everyone either has episode names memorize or has the bandwidth to look it up in seconds.

i have neither.

In the world. There are no Celts in the world. There is your evidence, you know "Real Life". What you've shown me are websites, websites with no proof or evidence of any kind.
You'd rather put all your faith in a website than believe a fact that everyone knows to be true. If someone put up a site claiming that there isn't actually such a thing as "Water", would you believe it?

Everyone knows that the tribal culture is gone, but it's because its members were assimilated into other cultures, not because every member was killed.

Jake Sisko was no more a member of any African tribe, nor a freed slave, than I am of Celtic extraction.

And while you've been shown websites, because that's all you can be shown over the internet, all you've shown is your own unsupported opinion. Which you should know carries far less weight than even the most discredited of websites.

anyone > Wesley


I hated him. I loathe that character to this day.

"ZOMG! horrible things!"
"call the 12 year old!"
"but, we are all adults, and we have been trained and stuff"
"still, call the 12 year old! we are dooomed without the 12 year old!"

fucktards.

anyone > Wesley


I hated him. I loathe that character to this day.

"ZOMG! horrible things!"
"call the 12 year old!"
"but, we are all adults, and we have been trained and stuff"
"still, call the 12 year old! we are dooomed without the 12 year old!"

fucktards.

lol. dont hold back, smunkee, tell us what you really think

wesley suffered from the "inflation of credentials" syndrome that was rampant in star trek. the one where we find out that....dr pulaski.... is a celebrity in her field. sooner or later everyone on board is revealed to be some kind of freaking genius.

wesley was the worst because he HAD no credentials so he had to end up some kind of intergalactic savior-to-be.

it was rather annoying.

lol. dont hold back, smunkee, tell us what you really think

wesley suffered from the "inflation of credentials" syndrome that was rampant in star trek. the one where we find out that....dr pulaski.... is a celebrity in her field. sooner or later everyone on board is revealed to be some kind of freaking genius.

wesley was the worst because he HAD no credentials so he had to end up some kind of intergalactic savior-to-be.

it was rather annoying.

As far as the crew goes, that was sort of justifiable. The enterprise was, at its time, the flagship of the Federation. Its crew was, quite literally, the best there was. Everybody was, indeed, the best in their field, because only the best served on the Federation flagship.

That made little sense for the 12 year old boy, however.

it would be so much easier if you gave a brief synopsis instead of expecting that everyone either has episode names memorize or has the bandwidth to look it up in seconds.

i have neither.

"The Inner Light" is the award winning TNG episode where Picard gets knocked out by a probe and lives the entire adult life of a man on an extinct world in the matter of 20 minutes. It was Star Trek at its best.

"The Inner Light" is the award winning TNG episode where Picard gets knocked out by a probe and lives the entire adult life of a man on an extinct world in the matter of 20 minutes. It was Star Trek at its best.

i thought that must be the one because, well, what one could be better?

it was also one of the rare episodes that was remembered in later episodes.

As far as the crew goes, that was sort of justifiable. The enterprise was, at its time, the flagship of the Federation. Its crew was, quite literally, the best there was. Everybody was, indeed, the best in their field, because only the best served on the Federation flagship.

That made little sense for the 12 year old boy, however.

it makes sense for the crew to be excellent at what they do but the whole "worldwide famous" thing is credential inflation.

i longed for an episode featuring the guy who graduated LAST in his class at the academy who only got onto the enterprise because of political connections

until i saw such an episode on spike the other day. it was a voyager episode and the bajoran crew member had felt that she ws worthless and had only been promoted because star fleet needed bajorans. i didnt watch to the end to see how she saved the freaking day but WHOA it was a badly written episode.

sometimes it sucks to get what you ask for

anyone > Wesley


I hated him. I loathe that character to this day.

"ZOMG! horrible things!"
"call the 12 year old!"
"but, we are all adults, and we have been trained and stuff"
"still, call the 12 year old! we are dooomed without the 12 year old!"

fucktards.

Goodness Smunkee!

Well, people having talents they shouldn't was a common plot hole, er, device, in Star Trek. Neelix was able to rig the teleporter so that the engineers couldn't turn it off. Why? Neelix's only qualification was that it was his hometown. He had said it himself, because he knew what was in the area he had a purpose, otherwise he was useless.

People could disable shipwide engine systems by pulling a panel off the wall of their jail cell.

But as Voltaire pointed out in the song I posted, "though he's just a child and some think him a twit, Wesley is the master when it comes to making up some shit."

Goodness Smunkee!

Well, people having talents they shouldn't was a common plot hole, er, device, in Star Trek. Neelix was able to rig the teleporter so that the engineers couldn't turn it off. Why? Neelix's only qualification was that it was his hometown. He had said it himself, because he knew what was in the area he had a purpose, otherwise he was useless.

People could disable shipwide engine systems by pulling a panel off the wall of their jail cell.

But as Voltaire pointed out in the song I posted, "though he's just a child and some think him a twit, Wesley is the master when it comes to making up some shit."

it would be different if it were just once or twice like the time when Q lost his powers or whatever and Dr. Crusher got trapped in another dimension.....fine, Wesley to save the day! whatever, but repeatedly, adults who had been trained to be in space........needed help from the little twit, it's annoying. If he helped once or twice, don't care, but for a season it seemed like every 5 minutes the Enterprise was in immediate no way out peril and the little snot face had to save them.........a crew of hundreds and a 12 year old with no training, gonna save everyone, right. :rolleyes:

it would be different if it were just once or twice like the time when Q lost his powers or whatever and Dr. Crusher got trapped in another dimension.....fine, Wesley to save the day! whatever, but repeatedly, adults who had been trained to be in space........needed help from the little twit, it's annoying. If he helped once or twice, don't care, but for a season it seemed like every 5 minutes the Enterprise was in immediate no way out peril and the little snot face had to save them.........a crew of hundreds and a 12 year old with no training, gonna save everyone, right. :rolleyes:

everyone on the freaking ship must have hated wesley's guts (except for his protectors--oh i mean close friends). how pissed would YOU be if you had spent 4+ years at star fleet academy and some fucking 12 year old gets the bridge shifts YOU would have gotten if his mother hadnt been blowing the captain? (or whatever crusher had to do to get pickard to agree to it)

everyone on the freaking ship must have hated wesley's guts (except for his protectors--oh i mean close friends). how pissed would YOU be if you had spent 4+ years at star fleet academy and some fucking 12 year old gets the bridge shifts YOU would have gotten if his mother hadnt been blowing the captain? (or whatever crusher had to do to get pickard to agree to it)Wesley looks more like he would have been blowing the captain himself...

Oh yes, Wesley the helmsman on the flagship of the Federation. And as ridiculous as that was, that wasn't even why he was despised by the fans, it was because he was such a annoying little dork.

I wonder whatever happened to Wesley when he left. I don't exactly remember the circumstances, just that it was some hippie bullshit. He probably became either a sloppy bottom for some aliens or married some chick with a bunch of kids by other men for him to raise, like the real Wil Wheaton. A born bitch.

Wesley looks more like he would have been blowing the captain himself...

yes but picard had far too much self discipline to be diddling teenaged boys.

I liked Data's "kid". (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Lal)

Plus, Sisko was the child of the only obnoxious desegregationist in a universe that had been colorblind for 4 hundred years. No one even batted an eye when Gordi introduced a white girl as his sister, but Sisko wouldn't set foot in a fantasy room because it was made to look like a place that was racist in a time before even the actor remembers, let alone the character (he wouldn't watch his friend's piano recital in a holographic Las Vegas). That would be like me refusing to eat pizza because the Romans used to keep Celts as slaves.

I found these episodes (where he thought he was a discriminated black writer) always a bit... odd. To avoid saying mindfuckingly stupid.

As far as the crew goes, that was sort of justifiable. The enterprise was, at its time, the flagship of the Federation. Its crew was, quite literally, the best there was. Everybody was, indeed, the best in their field, because only the best served on the Federation flagship.

That made little sense for the 12 year old boy, however.

Wesley Crusher was there for only 2 reasons.

The second was to make Picard the "father" figure since it was supposed to be a Picard/Beverly relationship.

The first and primary reason Wesley was there was to attract the younger generation to Star Trek. He was SUPPOSED to be the teen heartthrob of the series.

fucktards.
:eek:
:eek:
:eek:

He was SUPPOSED to be the teen heartthrob of the series.
zomg ... heartthrob? The nerdiest nerd on a ship FULL of nerds?
Doomed ... doomed ... doomed.

He was SUPPOSED to be the teen heartthrob of the series.And turn the audience into fags?

zomg ... heartthrob? The nerdiest nerd on a ship FULL of nerds?
Doomed ... doomed ... doomed.

Heh, everytime I saw an episode of Next Generation I hoped they would kill him of. Really now that kid was SOOO irritating. I'd have prefered they not have killed of Lt. Yar myself.

Wesley Crusher was there for only 2 reasons.

The second was to make Picard the "father" figure since it was supposed to be a Picard/Beverly relationship.

The first and primary reason Wesley was there was to attract the younger generation to Star Trek. He was SUPPOSED to be the teen heartthrob of the series.

You forgot about Gene WESLEY Roddenberry.

zomg ... heartthrob? The nerdiest nerd on a ship FULL of nerds?
Doomed ... doomed ... doomed.

Will was obviously the heartthrob.

Will was obviously the heartthrob.


riker was the heartrob (slut) for adults. the man every man would want to be the man every woman would like to fuck.

but wesley was supposed to take that role for teens and end up being the star trek equivalent of kirk cameron. (i dont know who is the teen heartthrob of the moment)

riker was the heartrob (slut) for adults. the man every man would want to be the man every woman would like to fuck.
yep.

but wesley was supposed to take that role for teens and end up being the star trek equivalent of kirk cameron. (i dont know who is the teen heartthrob of the moment)
prolly not Kirk, he went all loopy.

The teenage girls on my block tell me Chad Michael Murray is hot, but I'm not seeing it.

riker was the heartrob (slut) for adults. the man every man would want to be the man every woman would like to fuck.

but wesley was supposed to take that role for teens and end up being the star trek equivalent of kirk cameron. (i dont know who is the teen heartthrob of the moment)

not just Riker... Marina Sirtis (Troi) was the eye candy for the guys (and some girls out there as well.)

Wesely could have been win, if only he was more of a badass. You know, telling Picard where to shove it, reprogramming the ship's computer to speak in ancient gangsta slang, stealing women from Riker. Pity he was made of fail.

Oh yes, Wesley the helmsman on the flagship of the Federation. And as ridiculous as that was, that wasn't even why he was despised by the fans, it was because he was such a annoying little dork.

I wonder whatever happened to Wesley when he left. I don't exactly remember the circumstances, just that it was some hippie bullshit. He probably became either a sloppy bottom for some aliens or married some chick with a bunch of kids by other men for him to raise, like the real Wil Wheaton. A born bitch.

He basically became a god.

The Traveler came for him and helped him to "become" by showing him that his talens with warp field manipulating also somehow enabled him to freeze time at will. The Traveler then took him off to explore the universe and left the crew to fend for itself.

Interestingly, it appears that Wesley deigned to lower himself back to human level long enough to attend Troi and Riker's wedding in Nemesis.

riker was the heartrob (slut) for adults. the man every man would want to be the man every woman would like to fuck.

but wesley was supposed to take that role for teens and end up being the star trek equivalent of kirk cameron. (i dont know who is the teen heartthrob of the moment)That series lacked 7 of 9 definitely.

That series lacked 7 of 9 definitely.

big time!

why couldnt there be a male character as sexy as 7of9?

You forgot about Gene WESLEY Roddenberry.

Yup, Wes was a Mary Sue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue).

not just Riker... Marina Sirtis (Troi) was the eye candy for the guys (and some girls out there as well.)

marina sirtis is certainly a beautiful and sexy woman. but did you find troi as alluring as they wanted her to be? i found her pretty annoying.

I always wondered if they wanted to play up the Beverly and Picard thing and have her son on board to make Picard a father figure and serve as a sex symbol for the ten teenage girls that the show, why not just make him a new Starfleet Academy graduate posted to the Enterprise? She certainly looked old enough to have a 22 year old son.

It would certainly have gone over a lot better than some little dork being put in charge of running the most important ship in the universe.

marina sirtis is certainly a beautiful and sexy woman. but did you find troi as alluring as they wanted her to be? i found her pretty annoying.

I always wondered why they needed a 'councilor' stationed on the BRIDGE.
Over half the time she wasn't in standard StarFleet Uniform. was she the only one allowed to show clevage on the ship?

Even in TOS, McCoy wasn't on the bridge all the time.

I would've written her as a civilian counclior since they had "all their families" on board (and notice you rarely seen the other kids and family around?)

I always wondered why they needed a 'councilor' stationed on the BRIDGE.

To serve as an extra sensor of course. Just like Uhura ;)

riker was the heartrob (slut) for adults. the man every man would want to be the man every woman would like to fuck.

but wesley was supposed to take that role for teens and end up being the star trek equivalent of kirk cameron. (i dont know who is the teen heartthrob of the moment)

Being strange, I rather liked Worf. Oh, and speaking of Starfleet brats - try this - http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Alexander_Rozhenko

To serve as an extra sensor of course. Just like Uhura ;)

and what did she sense?

"I sense Something..."

Gee... can you be a little more specific?

at least her mother was better at sensing things...

"why didn't you arrest them yet? Didn't you know that they're assassins planning to use [the explosives in their uniform] to blow up the conference."

and what did she sense?

"I sense Something..."

Gee... can you be a little more specific?

at least her mother was better at sensing things...

"why didn't you arrest them yet? Didn't you know that they're assassins planning to use [the explosives in their uniform] to blow up the conference."her mother was better in many ways. no wonder gene roddenberry married her ;)

her mother was better in many ways. no wonder gene roddenberry married her ;)

have to admit... I liked her as "Number one" for "The Cage" :)

big time!

why couldnt there be a male character as sexy as 7of9?

If you like silicon looks, then Data should be your man, no? Except he doesn't have this fish eyes thing. Really, 7 of 9 is so not a sexy woman

I always wondered why they needed a 'councilor' stationed on the BRIDGE.
Over half the time she wasn't in standard StarFleet Uniform. was she the only one allowed to show clevage on the ship?

Even in TOS, McCoy wasn't on the bridge all the time.

I would've written her as a civilian counclior since they had "all their families" on board (and notice you rarely seen the other kids and family around?)

you will notice that when she is out of uniform....it's when she was too big for it.

putting her on the bridge maybe kept her away from craft service.

you will notice that when she is out of uniform....it's when she was too big for it.

putting her on the bridge maybe kept her away from craft service.

and did you notice that her chair was at the same position as the First Officer's?

I think Picard was getting some... ahem... private sessions with Troi... :p

and did you notice that her chair was at the same position as the First Officer's?

I think Picard was getting some... ahem... private sessions with Troi... :p

There were a lot of people getting ... ahem ... private sessions with Troi. Riker, Worf, Barclay - to name a few.

Personally, I thought she was a bit blousy and obvious.

some little dork being put in charge of running the most important ship in the universe.
Forgot Relativity, eh?

If you like silicon looks, then Data should be your man, no? Except he doesn't have this fish eyes thing. Really, 7 of 9 is so not a sexy woman

Ka-ZING!

Heh, everytime I saw an episode of Next Generation I hoped they would kill him off. Really now that kid was SOOO irritating. I'd have prefered they not have killed of Lt. Yar myself.

Better yet, the two could've killed each other in a synthacoke-fueled orgy with hypo-sprays and klingon disrupters. Perhaps using Odo as a sexual implement of some sort.

Will was obviously the heartthrob.
Not Barkley?
Or Worf, who had the decency to admit that with human women he found he had to "restrain himself too much"? And when he was coaching Wes, he noted that it was first "the scent of sex" that was helping to initiate a sexual encounter?
'sides, Worf shagged a few hot chicks. Woofwoof.

I don't have any beef with Wesley, but Jake Sisko was certainly the better character of the two. He didn't follow the generic template that we all expected him to follow (I mean, who really thought that Jake wouldn't join Starfleet?) and he certainly had guts. He was a real character. The episode where he and Bashir were diverted to that planet under siege by Klingons was one of the best so far as character development goes.

As much as I love TNG over DS9, I have to agree that Jake was better. If we are comparing dads though, Picard (as a sort of "honorary dad") was, naturally, WAYYYYY better than Sisko. Who the hell was that actor, and why was he SO bad??

Not Barkley?
Or Worf, who had the decency to admit that with human women he found he had to "restrain himself too much"? And when he was coaching Wes, he noted that it was first "the scent of sex" that was helping to initiate a sexual encounter?
'sides, Worf shagged a few hot chicks. Woofwoof.

nooooo. its not a matter of male characters who ended up being "it" for certain women (or men) its a matter of who they intended to be the heart throb.

that was will riker and wesley crusher.

it worked to some extent for riker and failed miserably for wesley.

in the same way 7 of 9 was the hot chick eye candy of voyager (made all the more so by having a good actress would could suggest more character development than the series offered) but there are lots of men (and women) who prefer b'elanna torres or kes.

nooooo. its not a matter of male characters who ended up being "it" for certain women (or men) its a matter of who they intended to be the heart throb.

that was will riker and wesley crusher.

it worked to some extent for riker and failed miserably for wesley.

in the same way 7 of 9 was the hot chick eye candy of voyager (made all the more so by having a good actress would could suggest more character development than the series offered) but there are lots of men (and women) who prefer b'elanna torres or kes.no. not kes. that's why she got replaced by 7of9.

no. not kes. that's why she got replaced by 7of9.

Aactually Kes (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Kes) left years before Seven of Nine came on board. remember, Ocampa live for only what did they say? 3 years?

speaking of which, Kes was another Starfleet character who "assended".

Aactually Kes left years before Seven of Nine came on board. remember, Ocampa live for only what did they say? 3 years?

speaking of which, Kes was another Starfleet character who "assended".Nope. Kes leaves at the beginning of season 4, right after the episode that had the arrival of 7of9.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Gift

Nope. Kes leaves at the beginning of season 4, right after the episode that had the arrival of 7of9.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Gift

ah, my mistake.

ah, my mistake.i know.

As much as I love TNG over DS9, I have to agree that Jake was better. If we are comparing dads though, Picard (as a sort of "honorary dad") was, naturally, WAYYYYY better than Sisko. Who the hell was that actor, and why was he SO bad??

Avery Brooks was good at anger and a few other emotions, but that was it. However, when he was good, he was GOOD, and he certainly made Sisko really likable in my eyes...more than enough to overlook some of his deficiencies.

Also, Wesley hate makes me sad. :(

Avery Brooks was good at anger and a few other emotions, but that was it. However, when he was good, he was GOOD, and he certainly made Sisko really likable in my eyes...more than enough to overlook some of his deficiencies.

Also, Wesley hate makes me sad. :(

I liked Avery Brooks when he played Hawk in Spenser. He looks good bald.

Besides, it's not Wesley hate, it's Wil Wheaton hate. Any other teenangsty actor in the part would have improved it.

Besides, it's not Wesley hate, it's Wil Wheaton hate. Any other teenangsty actor in the part would have improved it.
I dunno... after all, the character could only follow the dictates of the writing.

if they kept him as a secondary character and didn't try to make him the "ship's Mascot". then the Wesley character would've been a big improvement. especially if he was used more as a focus between the Working Starfleet Officer vs. the single mother of a teenager.

I liked Avery Brooks when he played Hawk in Spenser. He looks good bald.

Besides, it's not Wesley hate, it's Wil Wheaton hate. Any other teenangsty actor in the part would have improved it.

Erm, you might want to read up on some of what Wil Wheaton has said about the whole thing. He hated a lot of what they did to his character because he KNEW the character would be hated if he acted like that. But, he was an actor, and it was his job, so he did it to the best of his ability. Hating him for something he had no control over is a little foolish, I think.

On that same token, it's understandable. I just recommend research on something like this, that's all.

We have several websites talking about Modern Celts.

We have a guy in the thread who IS a modern Celt.

And on the other hand we have a dude stamping his feet.

Not very much an even argument.

We have several websites talking about Modern Celts.

We have a guy in the thread who IS a modern Celt.

And on the other hand we have a dude stamping his feet.

Not very much an even argument.
And that makes Jake Sisko cute?

I voted for Wesley.

Which Starfleet brat was better?

I'm going with Jake as he was human and not the little whiny bitch that Wesley was. The problem was that the TNG writers made Wesley the perfect little boy scout and protege of the Senior Staff of the Enterprise. He didn't act like as an adolescent should.

Jake on the other hand was like a normal kid. He got into trouble and wanted to go his own path and get out on his own. He was flawed as all humans are. He had fears unlike the goody two shoes 14 year old who kissed Picard's ass.

Weasley just sucked eggs. He was a moron. Originally this role was supposed to be a female. Probably would have been a lot better choice.

Jake was a liberal whiny wannabe.

Going to have to go with David. He at least sacrificed himself to save Savvik. Showed some redeeming courage.

TNG could have been a lot better. If you skip all the whoopi and troi parts, it doesn't really effect the show. You have to put up with weasley occasionally because some plot development sometimes occurs despite him being in the shot.

If troi had been naked and we 'flash' to her occasionally, with no speaking parts, we would do fine.

Weasley, drop on his head. Tasha yar would have made a fine 'pleasure officer' but not any real responsibility.

It would have been nice to see a few people live under the care of Dr Crusher. It seems being sent to her was a death sentence.

Picard was definitely no Kirk. Riker was the best actor followed closely by Data and Worf.

Barkley's character made good comedy relief.

If you compare the series of TOS and TNG, I saw some distinct differences.

In TOS there was a problem, it was usually identified early, the crew took steps to correct it, and the crisis averted. (There are a few exceptions)

In TNG there is a problem, some people have sexual and social interactions, we are supposed to get worried, and miraculously the problem solves itself in the last 5 minutes of the episode. (There are exceptions)

TNG had a lot of growing to do. DS9 had some of the mistakes solved but until the defiant came it was kind of, well, boring as hell.

Just my 2 cents

I didn't see enough of DS9 to comment intelligently on Jake, but I think the thing that made Wesley so annoying was that he was consistently better at everybody's job than they were.

Think about it. When Wesley was in Engineering, he generally outperformed Geordi. When the alien game came aboard the Enterprise, he was the only one who figured out it was bad (with some help from Ashley Judd, although had it not been for Golden Boy, she'd have been ensnared just like everybody else.)

Not that a bunch of the elite, best of the best, experienced, veteran Starfleet officers should, perish the thought, know their jobs better than a pre-Starfleet Academy cadet.

Data would have figured it our long before the weasel. Anyway, he was an annoying brat and I cheered when he got canned. Problem is they brought him back for cameos. What a waste of a character and the actor sucks as well.

I didn't see enough of DS9 to comment intelligently on Jake, but I think the thing that made Wesley so annoying was that he was consistently better at everybody's job than they were.

Think about it. When Wesley was in Engineering, he generally outperformed Geordi. When the alien game came aboard the Enterprise, he was the only one who figured out it was bad (with some help from Ashley Judd, although had it not been for Golden Boy, she'd have been ensnared just like everybody else.)

Not that a bunch of the elite, best of the best, experienced, veteran Starfleet officers should, perish the thought, know their jobs better than a pre-Starfleet Academy cadet.

exactly.

As much as I love TNG over DS9, I have to agree that Jake was better. If we are comparing dads though, Picard (as a sort of "honorary dad") was, naturally, WAYYYYY better than Sisko. Who the hell was that actor, and why was he SO bad??

Because he lacked subtlety and decided to use the part as a tool for political activism instead of as a means to express art. And as I said before, the show started out with Avery Brooks pretending to be Commander Sisko, but quickly became Sisko pretending to be Avery Brooks.

Because he lacked subtlety and decided to use the part as a tool for political activism instead of as a means to express art. And as I said before, the show started out with Avery Brooks pretending to be Commander Sisko, but quickly became Sisko pretending to be Avery Brooks.

Very good way to state it.

Because he lacked subtlety and decided to use the part as a tool for political activism instead of as a means to express art. And as I said before, the show started out with Avery Brooks pretending to be Commander Sisko, but quickly became Sisko pretending to be Avery Brooks.

Law and Order fell into the same trap and I had to stop watching that show as well.

Marina Sirtis (Troi) was the eye candy for the guys (and some girls out there as well.)Remember *not* to ask her about any blue-film history she had getting her start in film with. ;)

Wesely could have been win, if only he was more of a badass. You know, telling Picard where to shove it, reprogramming the ship's computer to speak in ancient gangsta slang, stealing women from Riker. Pity he was made of fail.
Guy LIKE!
:D

there are lots of men (and women) who prefer b'elanna torres or kes.Oh, i'd have gobbled up Kes. She had some seriously sexy talents.
B'elana, well, whenever she was restrained in one fashion or another ... *shrug*

Kes was another Starfleet character who "assended".

Your choice of words is interesting. Perhaps you're inspired by some of her pix? :p
http://www.startrek.com/imageuploads/200307/lien05/240x320.jpg

I always wondered why they needed a 'councilor' stationed on the BRIDGE.
Over half the time she wasn't in standard StarFleet Uniform. was she the only one allowed to show clevage on the ship?

Even in TOS, McCoy wasn't on the bridge all the time.

I would've written her as a civilian counclior since they had "all their families" on board (and notice you rarely seen the other kids and family around?)

She was there for comic relief. If you fast forward through her speaking parts, Wesley's (with rare exception) and Guinan, it rarely effects the show at all.

She should have been a civilian and stationed near the holodeck. Her mother could have been eliminated completely from all the episodes.

Erm, you might want to read up on some of what Wil Wheaton has said about the whole thing. He hated a lot of what they did to his character because he KNEW the character would be hated if he acted like that. But, he was an actor, and it was his job, so he did it to the best of his ability. Hating him for something he had no control over is a little foolish, I think.

On that same token, it's understandable. I just recommend research on something like this, that's all.

Dont really care. Same reason I never wanted to ask Saddam Hussein if he felt he was treated fairly.

Remember *not* to ask her about any blue-film history she had getting her start in film with. ;)

She was a better actress with her clothes off and less speaking parts however.....

Gates mcFadden whined the whole time at the convention I went to. Never liked her or her politics. However I do not blame her for her character, after all that was writers.

Weasely; wheaton sucks as an actor anyway so I blame him for his bs.

So it's Wesley vs. Jake .......

Im not sure here but I think we lose either way.

Let sleeping threads lie.

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