NationStates Jolt Archive

Regrettably, this man is single. :(

Don't worry. I was single for 36 years. Now I'm very happily married and I so regret we didn't meet earlier...
All right, worry. ;)

Of course, that is entirely hypothetical, because the bifurcation into two sexes is so ancient, we don't have any creature even vaguely mammalian to compare with, to see what "we" would be like without it.
Not entirely true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_mole_rat
Here, the only true males are the breeders that don't play much of a role in the society.
[It's late. I'm off to sleep.]

Wrong headed position? I'm sorry, that sounds unpleasantly familiar to me. Me being Polish and old enough to remember the bad old times.
I mean, it's so general that it's easy to attach to anyone who says something that sounds wrong and mark him as enemy.
I might agree that he reapt what he sow. But being provocative, I guess he was thinking in terms of saying something controversial loudly at a party, not climbing in metal armor on a peak during storm.

did HE complain about the responses he got? the NSG rule is "if you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". many have received harsher responses.


Am I right taking it as a general remark about the relationships, not about the discussion of the genetically ingrained preferences?

no. one can make a guess at genetically ingrained preferences but these supposed preferences are not represented in the general population.

in general women are not whores and men are not whoremongers. people mate for far more reasons than "money".

(using money as a short hand for men who have great social position and posessions)

no. one can make a guess at genetically ingrained preferences but these supposed preferences are not represented in the general population.

As a carnivore I am likely genetically ingrained to kill wild animals. But I don't go pouncing on small dogs and shredding them with my bare teeth every time I walk down the Boston Commons.

Or, just because other factors weigh more heavily doesn't mean that the genetic predisposition is not there. In fact, I have seen fairly good reasons to suggest why they would be there, and nothing real to refute it.

Just because we as social animals are capable of not acting on impulse, and have other pressures that may override them, doesn't mean they are not there. In fact, I think any sociologist will tell you that social pressures can often be so subtle, so ingrained and so subconcious that we aren't even aware of them, and genetic predisposition due to selective pressures can be even more subtle.

The moth might be drawn to the flame, but it has no idea why, or even really aware of that drive. We may be more complex than the moth, but that means we also have more complex motivations, pressures, socializations, and other things that mould our actions.

As a carnivore I am likely genetically ingrained to kill wild animals. But I don't go pouncing on small dogs and shredding them with my bare teeth every time I walk down the Boston Commons.

Or, just because other factors weigh more heavily doesn't mean that the genetic predisposition is not there. In fact, I have seen fairly good reasons to suggest why they would be there, and nothing real to refute it.

Just because we as social animals are capable of not acting on impulse, and have other pressures that may override them, doesn't mean they are not there. In fact, I think any sociologist will tell you that social pressures can often be so subtle, so ingrained and so subconcious that we aren't even aware of them, and genetic predisposition due to selective pressures can be even more subtle.

The moth might be drawn to the flame, but it has no idea why, or even really aware of that drive. We may be more complex than the moth, but that means we also have more complex motivations, pressures, socializations, and other things that mould our actions.

and im not saying youre wrong. im responding to MH's initial post only. he DID back off that and add in that women also are attracted to young virile men.

there are good reasons for a woman (and a man) to choose good providers. only an idiot makes a lifetime committment to a loser. and yet it happens all the time.

have you not known men who married women who were obviously terrible lifemate material? have you not known women who married men who would give them nothing but a life of pain and suffering? i certainly have.

the reasons we choose a life mate or a momentary lover are far more complicated than "he has good genetics", "he would be a good provider" and "she has childbearing hips".

the reasons we choose a life mate or a momentary lover are far more complicated than "he has good genetics", "he would be a good provider" and "she has childbearing hips".

Of course, absolutly. There are numerous factors, including social, personal, lifestyle, preferences, it's extraordinarily complex. I do, however, think that some degree of evolutionary determined preferences exist on some level even if we are unaware of them, and even if they're outweighed by other factors.

I certainly think that we are genetically wired to some degree to look for certain factors, including who would be a good provider for our children, and ourselves. Does that play a part in every relationship? Of course not. But that's not to say they don't exist.

That's all. I think being dismissive of the idea that there is some degree of genetic predisposition is shortsighted.

Of course, absolutly. There are numerous factors, including social, personal, lifestyle, preferences, it's extraordinarily complex. I do, however, think that some degree of evolutionary determined preferences exist on some level even if we are unaware of them, and even if they're outweighed by other factors.

I certainly think that we are genetically wired to some degree to look for certain factors, including who would be a good provider for our children, and ourselves. Does that play a part in every relationship? Of course not. But that's not to say they don't exist.

That's all. I think being dismissive of the idea that there is some degree of genetic predisposition is shortsighted.

perhaps. but not so much that one has to worry about the need to spend money on women in order to end up with a good girlfriend.

did HE complain about the responses he got? the NSG rule is "if you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". many have received harsher responses.

:eek: Well, that's what I had wrong, then. I thought it was "if you can't stand the heat, grab a fire-extinguisher and squirt everybody indiscriminately"

no. one can make a guess at genetically ingrained preferences but these supposed preferences are not represented in the general population.

I recognize THAT rule. "Don't label me."

(using money as a short hand for men who have great social position and posessions)

You're wise to be wary there. There are strong arguments to show that money is not the measure of success, or of fitness to be a parent.

:eek: Well, that's what I had wrong, then. I thought it was "if you can't stand the heat, grab a fire-extinguisher and squirt everybody indiscriminately"



I recognize THAT rule. "Don't label me."



You're wise to be wary there. There are strong arguments to show that money is not the measure of success, or of fitness to be a parent.

remember im only responding to the notion that a woman is somehow genetically programmed to whore herself out to a rich powerful man that she would otherwise not give the time of day to.

remember im only responding to the notion that a woman is somehow genetically programmed to whore herself out to a rich powerful man that she would otherwise not give the time of day to.

Yes. :)
It shouldn't need to be said, really. Every post is in some kind of context ... well, maybe a thread-starter can be taken as a free-standing statement.

I don't have a problem with recognizing a "male" predisposition to violence, and even a kind of relish for hardship, in myself. I'd be quite offended at the suggestion that it dictates my actions, though.

Actually, I think the inclinations which an individual isn't aware of are far more likely to have an effect, than the ones they are! I think we consciously rebel against anything we think is 'instinctual' ... we'd rather have free will.

remember im only responding to the notion that a woman is somehow genetically programmed to whore herself out to a rich powerful man that she would otherwise not give the time of day to.

It's silly, but only half silly, I think. The way it seems to me is that, no, women don't "whore" themselves to good providers, but rather, throughout history, the family/tribe/whatever sort of forced it on people, male and female. Just the other day I was watching a documentary on the National Geographic Channel about Africa - even today, it happens that women are married off to a wealthy provider against their wishes. In one woman's case, she was sold to a man before either he or she were born. When she hit 16, she tried to run off with her dirt-poor boyfriend, but the family caught and restrained her and sent her to the guy's village, where he abused her out of spite. Same thing happened to my grandfather, in the U.S., in the 1930's: the family picked him a wife, and he had the choice to marry her or be cut off. Family is hugely important, and the cultural examples are everywhere.

It seems to me like humans evolved half choosing the strong provider, and half being forced to marry the strong provider/strong provider's daughter.

It seems to me like humans evolved half choosing the strong provider, and half being forced to marry the strong provider/strong provider's daughter.

"Our two noble families have produced this sickly half-witted runt ... never mind, he can be Earl anyway and impregnate the chambermaids."

Seems like a dampening effect on selection by individual characteristics.

It's silly, but only half silly, I think. The way it seems to me is that, no, women don't "whore" themselves to good providers, but rather, throughout history, the family/tribe/whatever sort of forced it on people, male and female. Just the other day I was watching a documentary on the National Geographic Channel about Africa - even today, it happens that women are married off to a wealthy provider against their wishes. In one woman's case, she was sold to a man before either he or she were born. When she hit 16, she tried to run off with her dirt-poor boyfriend, but the family caught and restrained her and sent her to the guy's village, where he abused her out of spite. Same thing happened to my grandfather, in the U.S., in the 1930's: the family picked him a wife, and he had the choice to marry her or be cut off. Family is hugely important, and the cultural examples are everywhere.

It seems to me like humans evolved half choosing the strong provider, and half being forced to marry the strong provider/strong provider's daughter.

now THERES a factor not taken into consideration by the genetics guys. those men and women who were not allowed their choice of mates but were instead forced into marriages by their families.

its an addition to the mix that i dont really know what to do with but it has to be very important in human history.

I have a healthy list of things not to do in a relationship.

now THERES a factor not taken into consideration by the genetics guys.

Sure about that? ;)

Regrettably, this man is single. :(

http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=545904 :]

Don't worry. I was single for 36 years. Now I'm very happily married and I so regret we didn't meet earlier...
All right, worry. ;)

Congrats on that, honestly. I hope you'll live together happily for much longer.. what a wait :]

I have a healthy list of things not to do in a relationship.


Like? *takes notes*

did HE complain about the responses he got? the NSG rule is "if you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".
It seems he did just that.

one can make a guess at genetically ingrained preferences but these supposed preferences are not represented in the general population.

"Not represented" is too strong. I'd say not prevalent.


in general women are not whores and men are not whoremongers. people mate for far more reasons than "money".

(using money as a short hand for men who have great social position and posessions)


I agree with that. I'd never defend neither a view to the contrary nor a poster who is flamed because he holds it.

Congrats on that, honestly. I hope you'll live together happily for much longer.. what a wait :]
All I can say is it was worth it. I was in relationships before but none were happy.

All I can say is it was worth it. I was in relationships before but none were happy.

May we infer that you are 36 years old? (I'm 43, btw)

First of all, I haven't run away from this thread; I was at my sister's place on Friday and she doesn't have internet access at the moment. Now to deal with everything post by post.

Sorry, I usually try to refrain from using that smilie, but that post just deserved it. Why would girls cost money? Because you feel obliged to pay when doing something together? Why?

I do agree that one is not always obliged to pay when going out with a girl, however, consider the following;

I rarely go to the movies; perhaps four times a year (and three of them is when I am in Brisbane). Thus, even if I pay for only my ticket, it is still more costly than the default option. Same with restaurants. Consider the gifts that one would get from time to time to give to the girl. These things are costly, compared with the other options available.

I've been on dates with people who thought like that, but never on more than 2... it annoyed the hell out of me. Girls do have their own money and are more than happy to pay for you just as much as you pay for them. Many would find it highly insulting if a guy insisted on paying all the time (I know I did). I know there are others around who are more than happy to let the bloke pay, but there's a really simple rule on dating them : Don't.

For starters, when you start going out with a girl, they do not come with signs saying, I am the girl that will ask you to pay. Also, considering that one has never been in a relationship, questions of desperation come to the fore - you want to hang onto that girl, it is very easy saying don't, but when push comes to shove, desperation kicks in.

No argument there, it can happen. But avoiding the other sex just because there are risks is a bit like not leaving the house because you might get run over in the street. It happens, sure, but life goes on.

My determination of risk is quite funny. As you implied, I am fine with leaving the house, I am even fine with losing a fortune, however, emotional risks are not ones that I enjoy taking. People are different to machinery and of course, that makes it a completely new dynamic.

First of all, I prefer to do things on dates that don't cost (much) money, read: I don't do things much differently (locationwise) than I do with friends, i.e. go to my or their place and talk/cook/bake/do games/whatever, go for walks/biking/whatever, or low-cost things one'd do anyways every once in a while, like go swimming, to a party, or things like that. The most I've ever done is go for a coffee/hot chocolate, but I'd never even dream of going to a restaurant.

Fair enough, but doesn't that make you look just as cheap as me?

That, and secondly, I also agree that dumping (and accepting!) the payload on one person exclusively is utter bullshit. I myself don't go for any of such sentimentality and will always go Dutch (and I'm a woman), but I know plenty couples who need the feeling of togetherness they feel not paying separately creates, but then thy either alternate paying for successive dates, or they pay different parts of the date, i.e. "you pay for the movie tickets and I get the refreshments".

As Cabra said: People (of unspecified gender) who insist on/expect one person to pay everything aren't really worth dating (unless you actively and consciously only pursue a night of getting laid, in which case you can just see the money spent as the price).

I do not dispute that dumping the payload on one person is utter BS, although chances are still rather high; however, as I said before, a relationship involves going out, an activity that I do not do that often; it involves an investment of time and money (think of the gifts, activities, et cetera), one that is almost certainly not going to produce a return.

So, you self-select only for women who will demand that you spend money on them, then you bitch that dating is too expensive?

Um, boo hoo for you?

No, I don't self select women. As I said earlier in the post, they do not come with signs saying; I will demand that you pay for it. Also, of course, again, I must say about the opportunity cost.

And in fact, I enjoy the bachelor life. No boo hoo for me. If I was really interested in that sort of stuff, I would have pursued it quite heavily by now.

Sounds like you need smarter friends.

Not a case of smarter friends, the friend I was referring to is reasonably smart and wouldn't easily fall into a trap like that.

On behalf of the female population, allow me to extend my heartfelt gratitude.

That is fine; some other man can have a woman.

While I'm sure AP appreciates your patronizing and paternalistic attitude toward his maturation process, I'm going to assume that he's a big enough boy to be able to deal with my words on his own. I'll let him fight his own battles.

Actually, Bottle, I need NHs patronising and paternalistic attitude, I am not in fact a big enough boy to deal with my own battles

The truth of the bloody matter is that this debate has almost become personal with low level attack. The fact that I am replying to it is a miracle, and only to prove to the good people of NSG that I am not running away from this thread.

About the remainder of this discussion, it has been an interesting move toward human nature, and in fact, this is something I have found rather interesting.

There is a tendency for good looking females and good looking males to get hitched up. The problem is that leaves the rest of us with the not so good looking females and males; and to tell you the truth, even if I was interested in relationships, the fact that I would be left with the utter dregs of the population because I wasn't blessed with massive muscles, and so would most of us posting here today. I for one do not want to end up hitched with the utter dregs of the population.

May we infer that you are 36 years old? (I'm 43, btw)
You may, but you'd be two years off. :)

I would be left with the utter dregs of the population because I wasn't blessed with massive muscles
I can tell you from personal experience it's not how it works. :)

damn... I keep coming back to this topic hoping to find funny one-liners and all there is here is hard-headed evolutionists with simplistic, Victorian, views and feminists, lashing at each other. Lighten up people, we're talking about broken hears and other such happy things here, not why things aren't as they ought to be according to whatever social theory. If you wanna fight, take it outside :D

Actually, Bottle, I need NHs patronising and paternalistic attitude, I am not in fact a big enough boy to deal with my own battles

NH, perpetuating the patriarchy by pussy-footing and pandering!

Now is the time for all good men to go sulk in the cave!

If hitting it with a club don't work, leave it to Wilma! Yabba dabba doo!

The truth of the bloody matter is that this debate has almost become personal with low level attack. The fact that I am replying to it is a miracle, and only to prove to the good people of NSG that I am not running away from this thread.

I should have left well alone.

There is a tendency for good looking females and good looking males to get hitched up. The problem is that leaves the rest of us with the not so good looking females and males; and to tell you the truth, even if I was interested in relationships, the fact that I would be left with the utter dregs of the population because I wasn't blessed with massive muscles, and so would most of us posting here today. I for one do not want to end up hitched with the utter dregs of the population.

There is only one conclusion to draw from this: thinking about relationships sends you into "I'm no good" mode. Just look at that leap (or lurch): the "good-looking" people hitch up, and what remains is "the utter dregs." There's nothing in-between? Nothing matters but looks? How dreadful!

If you're obese, you should deal with that for no reason other than your own health. "Massive muscles" are quite unnecessary, and in my experience are usually a sign of vanity, exactly comparable to the wasp waists of girls who would never eat a potato chip because it might make them "fat."

And NSGers are not rejects from the dating game, we're the flower of humanity. Insulting the entire company is never a good move, and I really think some of us are gorgeous in mind and soul.

Please go vote on the poll I put up "Which of these advantages would you rather have?"

Oh, and for my last paternalistic word: keep your teeth brushed and carry a condom in your wallet. You never know your luck!

NH, perpetuating the patriarchy by pussy-footing and pandering!

Now is the time for all good men to go sulk in the cave!

If hitting it with a club don't work, leave it to Wilma! Yabba dabba doo!

I should have left well alone.

Of course, of course. Also, about the final line, it was certainly not your fault, as I said, people have engaged in low level personal attacks without dealing to the crux of the discussion, which is of course about relationships.

There is only one conclusion to draw from this: thinking about relationships sends you into "I'm no good" mode. Just look at that leap (or lurch): the "good-looking" people hitch up, and what remains is "the utter dregs." There's nothing in-between? Nothing matters but looks? How dreadful!

If you're obese, you should deal with that for no reason other than your own health. "Massive muscles" are quite unnecessary, and in my experience are usually a sign of vanity, exactly comparable to the wasp waists of girls who would never eat a potato chip because it might make them "fat."

And NSGers are not rejects from the dating game, we're the flower of humanity. Insulting the entire company is never a good move, and I really think some of us are gorgeous in mind and soul.

Please go vote on the poll I put up "Which of these advantages would you rather have?"

Oh, and for my last paternalistic word: keep your teeth brushed and carry a condom in your wallet. You never know your luck!

I might as well start off with the NSGers comment. It was unfortunate that I posted my reply at 1 in the morning, which meant I was not thinking 100%. It did seem that way, however, from the comments that we were getting midway through this thread. If I offended anyone, I do apologise.

With regards to the rest of the quote. I am not obese, I would consider myself to be average in weight, so that is not it. However, while in the States things may be different, down in New Zealand, you see all the good looking females hitched up with the muscly men. While massive muscles may be a sign of vanity; they, just like wasp waists, are almost necessary to get ahead these days in the dating game, at least down in this part of the South Pacific.

About the first part; there is quite a large lurch, because this is the truth. You are either hot, or you are not hot. There is no neither hot nor not hot. Also, to be honest, it is looks that decide it. If you are not good looking, you have little chance.

I don't consider myself good-looking, and certainly don't put much effort into being so. Never having taken much care of myself, I've got wrinkles in the wrong places, I'm bald and my nose is crooked from (you won't believe this) the time I got knocked unconscious by a blind man in a pub. Oh, and I wear glasses and dress like a tramp.

I'm not really in the market for a girlfriend, though I like to flirt a bit. But the idea of not having the option, of being ruled out of consideration for any woman but a lunatic or a money vampire, is still abhorrent to me, so I hang on to the conviction that a decent woman would consider me on the basis of something other than physical good looks or a fat income.

I really don't think that what attraction I have is my muscles, though I have some from doing physical work. And it sure isn't my money, because I'm poor by Australian standards. Objectively, perhaps I have no chance at all ... but I don't see any benefit to thinking that way.

Just reading the post about the guy who can't get laid and wondered what everybody's relationship status is on here

I am that guy. Whoever he is. :p

Tragically single.

Never had one.

Ditto here on both counts. :(

Just reading the post about the guy who can't get laid and wondered what everybody's relationship status is on here
I think there's a significant lie or two in the poll results. *nods*

Anyways, I am willfully single.

Note has been made of potential to change that, amen.

Two and a half years, and suddenly that god damned ring is shoved in a box in the back of my closet instead of on my finger.

I'm drawn to these threads like moths to a flame. I must get some sort of sadistic pleasure in telling people that he left me, out of nowhere, with all the goddamn plans in the world ahead of us. We were moving to effing Europe next May. Big, life plans. And one day it's "I love you so much, I could never be with anyone but you", and the next, it's "Sorry, I haven't actually loved you for the last year. Everything I ever said? Yeah, those were lies. By the way, you ruined our relationship. Toodles."

Oh hell yes. It's only been a month and a half. I can wallow in self-pity for awhile longer, right? :p

Two and a half years, and suddenly that god damned ring is shoved in a box in the back of my closet instead of on my finger.

I'm drawn to these threads like moths to a flame. I must get some sort of sadistic pleasure in telling people that he left me, out of nowhere, with all the goddamn plans in the world ahead of us. We were moving to effing Europe next May. Big, life plans. And one day it's "I love you so much, I could never be with anyone but you", and the next, it's "Sorry, I haven't actually loved you for the last year. Everything I ever said? Yeah, those were lies. By the way, you ruined our relationship. Toodles."

Oh hell yes. It's only been a month and a half. I can wallow in self-pity for awhile longer, right? :p

Is this only the biggest coincidence of the week that you opted to post directly after the post i made to Zilam?

And my condolences to you for your condition, it most certainly sucks to invest faith and hope in someone who doesn't opt to be honest all the way through about their feelings (even as difficult and confusing as they can be) just to drop the bomb when they feel like it.

Is this only the biggest coincidence of the week that you opted to post directly after the post i made to Zilam?

To be quite honest, I didn't notice until now. :p I keep inadvertently stalking him. Well, mostly inadvertently. But this one was accidental!

'sides, he's just hoping I'll send him a picture on Christmas. I dunno if that qualifies as a relationship. ;)

As a Proper Feminist (tm), you'll have to staunchly and dogmatically oppose the Oppressive Reproductive System that is really just forced down your throat by the Male Sexist Conspiracy and refuse to have your body soiled and used by the Collaborative Chauvinist Sperm like that.


That statement is just a tad bit incorrect... it's not forced down the throat. I'm late in saying it but I had too...

As for relationship status, I'm in a semi-serious relationship thats growing pretty strong.

'sides, he's just hoping I'll send him a picture on Christmas. I dunno if that qualifies as a relationship. ;)
For you, or for him?
For him, absolutely :p

For you, or for him?
For him, absolutely :p

:D Fair enough, fair enough. Hahahaha. Poor guy, here we are talking about him and he's not even around to defend himself. That chuckle was definitely the best of the night, though.

:D Fair enough, fair enough. Hahahaha. Poor guy, here we are talking about him and he's not even around to defend himself. That chuckle was definitely the best of the night, though.

I don't think he'll mind.
He voted me as "Sexiest NS'r" a while back, while i actually voted for him. Funny how that works out!

I don't think he'll mind.
He voted me as "Sexiest NS'r" a while back, while i actually voted for him. Funny how that works out!

You know what's funny? I can't recall actually seeing his pic on that mugshots thread. I either didn't look, or wasn't paying attention.

*goes to hunt it down*

I do agree that one is not always obliged to pay when going out with a girl, however, consider the following;

I rarely go to the movies; perhaps four times a year (and three of them is when I am in Brisbane). Thus, even if I pay for only my ticket, it is still more costly than the default option. Same with restaurants. Consider the gifts that one would get from time to time to give to the girl. These things are costly, compared with the other options available.

For starters, when you start going out with a girl, they do not come with signs saying, I am the girl that will ask you to pay. Also, considering that one has never been in a relationship, questions of desperation come to the fore - you want to hang onto that girl, it is very easy saying don't, but when push comes to shove, desperation kicks in.

My determination of risk is quite funny. As you implied, I am fine with leaving the house, I am even fine with losing a fortune, however, emotional risks are not ones that I enjoy taking. People are different to machinery and of course, that makes it a completely new dynamic.

Fair enough, but doesn't that make you look just as cheap as me?

I do not dispute that dumping the payload on one person is utter BS, although chances are still rather high; however, as I said before, a relationship involves going out, an activity that I do not do that often; it involves an investment of time and money (think of the gifts, activities, et cetera), one that is almost certainly not going to produce a return.

No, I don't self select women. As I said earlier in the post, they do not come with signs saying; I will demand that you pay for it. Also, of course, again, I must say about the opportunity cost.

And in fact, I enjoy the bachelor life. No boo hoo for me. If I was really interested in that sort of stuff, I would have pursued it quite heavily by now.

Not a case of smarter friends, the friend I was referring to is reasonably smart and wouldn't easily fall into a trap like that.

That is fine; some other man can have a woman.

Actually, Bottle, I need NHs patronising and paternalistic attitude, I am not in fact a big enough boy to deal with my own battles

The truth of the bloody matter is that this debate has almost become personal with low level attack. The fact that I am replying to it is a miracle, and only to prove to the good people of NSG that I am not running away from this thread.

About the remainder of this discussion, it has been an interesting move toward human nature, and in fact, this is something I have found rather interesting.

There is a tendency for good looking females and good looking males to get hitched up. The problem is that leaves the rest of us with the not so good looking females and males; and to tell you the truth, even if I was interested in relationships, the fact that I would be left with the utter dregs of the population because I wasn't blessed with massive muscles, and so would most of us posting here today. I for one do not want to end up hitched with the utter dregs of the population.Wow, you must've been tired when you typed this. Are you sure you don't want to reword this (or delete the post completely?)

Wow, you must've been tired when you typed this. Are you sure you don't want to reword this (or delete the post completely?)

Doesn't it kinda have its own poetry-like quality about it?

You know what's funny? I can't recall actually seeing his pic on that mugshots thread. I either didn't look, or wasn't paying attention.

*goes to hunt it down*Well, he is cute, but it's pretty much his "flexibility" of personality and such that takes him such a long way.

Well, he is cute, but it's pretty much his "flexibility" of personality and such that takes him such a long way.

To be honest, he could be the cutest guy in the world (and you're right, he is pretty cute :p), but other than initial flirtation just to prove I still know how, my reaction's gonna be to hightail it in the other direction in a lot of ways. Men are to be avoided in any serous aspect what-so-ever for the time being. I'm going to be hurting from that last one for awhile. I do that "throwing myself back into the game" for, like, two days at a time before life beats me over the head and sends me back to the moaning bit.

we're the flower of humanity

:D

Oh, and for my last paternalistic word: keep your teeth brushed and carry a condom in your wallet. You never know your luck!

I can't argue with the first advice, but I've heard that carrying a condom in your wallet can cause it to rupture (after a while). Which can make you very lucky 9 months after :eek:. I have to admit I heard it from friends without hard evidence, so it could be wrong, but it does seem quite logical. Although I guess it would be better than nothing of course.

Two and a half years, and suddenly that god damned ring is shoved in a box in the back of my closet instead of on my finger.

I'm drawn to these threads like moths to a flame. I must get some sort of sadistic pleasure in telling people that he left me, out of nowhere, with all the goddamn plans in the world ahead of us. We were moving to effing Europe next May. Big, life plans. And one day it's "I love you so much, I could never be with anyone but you", and the next, it's "Sorry, I haven't actually loved you for the last year. Everything I ever said? Yeah, those were lies. By the way, you ruined our relationship. Toodles."

Oh hell yes. It's only been a month and a half. I can wallow in self-pity for awhile longer, right? :p

OUCH!

yeah that would take more than a month and a half to get past.

are you going to move to europe without him or are you glad that he broke up before he dragged you there and THEN left you?

Ooh, ooh, I know the answer!

14/f/AK

"Hi, my name is Chris Hanson, I'm with Dateline NBC, why don't you have a seat on the stool over there"............

I can see it now...

"Hi, my name is Chris Hanson, I'm with Dateline NBC, why don't you have a seat on the stool over there"............

I can see it now...

To clarify for anyone that hasn't seen and/or heard of Chris Hanson. There is a show here in the states called "Dateline NBC" that from time to time has these amazing (very very addicting to watch) shows called "To Catch a Predator", in which someone poses as like a 13 year old girl on the internet, and these creepy old guys immediately start up the "so what are you wearing?" conversations, that lead to the fake 13 year old inviting them over for sex, the guy drives 300 miles to a house, where Chris Hanson (guy from NBC) greets them to their surprise, asks them questions, and when the creepy guy leaves he is tackled by local police, and charged with "attempting a lude act with a minor" or something similar. Thought I should make that clear, the prior comment is much funnier had you seen the show.

I never will be in a relationship. Ever.

I never will be in a relationship. Ever.

jot that post url down and keep it for the day when you post to tell us about your new girlfriend.

Sadly single right now, and getting bored of it.

Actually I just got asked out via a 'facebook' meassage of all things today, which is pretty unfortunate. Though I don't suppose I'd care if I actually liked the guy, which I'm doubtful that I do. But then, maybe I should say yes to find out. But then, what's the point if I don't know already?

eugh. Relationships aren't hard - getting to them is what's incredibly taxing.

I have cats. And NSG. Not physically fulfilling, but menopause took care of any wants in that direction.

Not in a relationship. Never been in a relationship, though my brain decided about a month or so ago to fall in love without consulting me first. Not something I needed.

Not in a relationship. Never been in a relationship, though my brain decided about a month or so ago to fall in love without consulting me first. Not something I needed.

I don't quite get how that works. I can understand falling in love with someone you know really really well and spend a lot of time with, but surely if you just have a crush on someone then that's exactly what it is: a crush. If it's been on for a month it'll probably not last for more than one more month or so:)

Swore i would never like guys. I thought they were idiots. Then my brain decided to fall in love without permission, with one of my friends.:headbang: Turned out that he liked me too.Go figure:D

I don't quite get how that works. I can understand falling in love with someone you know really really well and spend a lot of time with, but surely if you just have a crush on someone then that's exactly what it is: a crush. If it's been on for a month it'll probably not last for more than one more month or so:)

I've known them for 2 years, and liked them for 3 months. Living proof your statement is false

I don't quite get how that works. I can understand falling in love with someone you know really really well and spend a lot of time with, but surely if you just have a crush on someone then that's exactly what it is: a crush. If it's been on for a month it'll probably not last for more than one more month or so:)

It is someone I know well.

I've known them for 2 years, and liked them for 3 months. Living proof your statement is false

Quite the opposite. Proof my statement is true. All I've said that one cannot claim to fall in love with someone they don't know, lest he confuses love for a crush.

It is someone I know well.

Well in that case rejoice and enjoy. ;) I hope things turn out a lot better than they did for me, but still, I'm not complaining. I don't regret anything other than getting to the point where we had to break up.

I can't argue with the first advice, but I've heard that carrying a condom in your wallet can cause it to rupture (after a while). Which can make you very lucky 9 months after :eek:. I have to admit I heard it from friends without hard evidence, so it could be wrong, but it does seem quite logical. Although I guess it would be better than nothing of course.

Yes, I'd heard that too. Latex degrades from being stored at body temperature, so unless you can carry it around in a handbag or something, I guess it ought to be replaced every couple of weeks. Or go for those non-latex condoms instead.

I do actually carry a condom almost anytime I leave the house, and when the packet starts to get a bit worn-out I replace the condom with a new one. The old one gets scuttled, quite a waste of money for someone who hasn't had sex in years. Even in the wonderful nanny-state of Aus, condoms aren't made available for free ...

Thanks for pointing that out.

Yes, I'd heard that too. Latex degrades from being stored at body temperature, so unless you can carry it around in a handbag or something, I guess it ought to be replaced every couple of weeks. Or go for those non-latex condoms instead.

I do actually carry a condom almost anytime I leave the house, and when the packet starts to get a bit worn-out I replace the condom with a new one. The old one gets scuttled, quite a waste of money for someone who hasn't had sex in years. Even in the wonderful nanny-state of Aus, condoms aren't made available for free ...

Thanks for pointing that out.

that is quite the testament to hope.

i hope you get to USE one soon.

I have cats. And NSG. Not physically fulfilling, but menopause took care of any wants in that direction.

God-or-evolution-or-both-damn it, it's not fair! I want a menopause too!

*has tantrum*

jot that post url down and keep it for the day when you post to tell us about your new girlfriend.

I'll remember that. :)

All I've said that one cannot claim to fall in love with someone they don't know, lest he confuses love for a crush.
I have fallen in love with a person that was seated opposite to me on a wedding. I saw her and my first thought was "Oh my God, that's her" and second "She's way beyond my league". And third: "I have to talk to her". And we talked and talked and talked, on that day and the next.
We got married 364 days later.
Falling in love with my wife was like finding a key to an extremely complex lock - a key that for the first time in my life fits perfectly. It was like entering a new land full of wonders. The more I learned about her, the more I loved her. All her little traits, all her virtues and yes, even her vices, had places in my heart that waited for them so long. We are very, very lucky to meet each other. I repeat that every time I regret that we didn't meet earlier.

Latex degrades from being stored at body temperature, so unless you can carry it around in a handbag or something, I guess it ought to be replaced every couple of weeks. Or go for those non-latex condoms instead.

I do actually carry a condom almost anytime I leave the house, and when the packet starts to get a bit worn-out I replace the condom with a new one. The old one gets scuttled, quite a waste of money for someone who hasn't had sex in years. Even in the wonderful nanny-state of Aus, condoms aren't made available for free ...

that is quite the testament to hope.

It's not hope so much, as an entirely justified uncertainty about what I might do out in the exciting world. Over a decade ago, I had unprotected sex with a girl I met on the street, it was the randomest of random hookups ... we hung out for a few hours, visited a friend I knew in the area because we were both a long way from our homes ... I prevailed on my friend to give me a condom but he didn't have any and it was after midnight by the time *girls name* and I retired to my friend's spare room ... and I discovered that it is very hard not to have sex when you both want to, just because it has risks attached. I knew better but I couldn't say no.

Then in the morning, I could barely make her hang around long enough to eat some breakfast. She plainly didn't want to see me again, and that was fine ... one-night stand ... but the idea I might have made her pregnant really weighed on my mind after that. I even went and had an HIV test (though I knew of no way I could have contracted that disease) to rule out that nagging doubt. The fact is, I might have fathered a child that night and still not know about it.

It wasn't great sex, it wasn't a total disaster. In fact, that rather comical liason would be entirely forgotten by now if I had been carrying a condom. So ever since, I try to carry one when I leave the house, because I know my mind can change on the subject in just a few hours.

i hope you get to USE one soon.

I don't hope for anything of the sort! More like ... "allow for the possibility." And minimize the possible harm of what is frankly quite unlikely to happen.

It's not hope so much, as an entirely justified uncertainty about what I might do out in the exciting world. Over a decade ago, I had unprotected sex with a girl I met on the street, it was the randomest of random hookups ... we hung out for a few hours, visited a friend I knew in the area because we were both a long way from our homes ... I prevailed on my friend to give me a condom but he didn't have any and it was after midnight by the time *girls name* and I retired to my friend's spare room ... and I discovered that it is very hard not to have sex when you both want to, just because it has risks attached. I knew better but I couldn't say no.

Then in the morning, I could barely make her hang around long enough to eat some breakfast. She plainly didn't want to see me again, and that was fine ... one-night stand ... but the idea I might have made her pregnant really weighed on my mind after that. I even went and had an HIV test (though I knew of no way I could have contracted that disease) to rule out that nagging doubt. The fact is, I might have fathered a child that night and still not know about it.

It wasn't great sex, it wasn't a total disaster. In fact, that rather comical liason would be entirely forgotten by now if I had been carrying a condom. So ever since, I try to carry one when I leave the house, because I know my mind can change on the subject in just a few hours.



I don't hope for anything of the sort! More like ... "allow for the possibility." And minimize the possible harm of what is frankly quite unlikely to happen.

in theory, now that you know it COULD happen you could avoid temptation by breaking it off earlier. (freudian)

but safe is a good idea.

in theory, now that you know it COULD happen you could avoid temptation by breaking it off earlier. (freudian)

But the temptation is fun! Flirting for instance. It quickens the blood, like a run-and-shoot where no-one's really getting shot. It's still exciting.

but safe is a good idea.

It sure is! No-one of around the age of puberty or older should ever have to justify using contraception, it should be the default condition and it should be available for free.

Quite the opposite. Proof my statement is true. All I've said that one cannot claim to fall in love with someone they don't know, lest he confuses love for a crush.

sorry. I misread the post. I admit it:headbang:

my reaction's gonna be to hightail it in the other direction in a lot of ways.Perfectly understandable. Most of us are jerks. And the rest of us, under the right circumstances, are also jerks. :)
Men are to be avoided in any serous aspect what-so-ever for the time being.Even internet posters? :p
I'm going to be hurting from that last one for awhile. I do that "throwing myself back into the game" for, like, two days at a time before life beats me over the head and sends me back to the moaning bit.No need to rush it, certainly. It's difficult enough as it is when you're NOT on the prowl for it, as i suspect many posters here would and do attest to.

19.

Twenty here.

I am, and have always been, quite happy being single.

Not in a relationship. Never been in a relationship, though my brain decided about a month or so ago to fall in love without consulting me first. Not something I needed.

I've adopted the policy of ignoring anything my brain tells me that I didn't consciously ask for. For me, at very least, it works fairly well -- except early mornings and whenever I enter my twice-daily existentialist moods.

I've also adopted the policy of forgetting the whole relationship thing until it becomes either necessary or viable by any stretch of the imagination. (i.e. once I'm finally over the schizo-OCD-anxiety-depression-generic neurosis-SAD cocktail, so named because whenever I throw one of them out, another one surfaces.) Fortunately, any 'prospects' have no intention of suffering my presence for any longer than a randomly chosen number units of time, so I'm in no danger there.

OUCH!

yeah that would take more than a month and a half to get past.

are you going to move to europe without him or are you glad that he broke up before he dragged you there and THEN left you?

I don't really know. I think I'm moving to Europe without him. At least, I'm going to give it a try for a few months. Home was wherever he was, you know? So I feel pretty displaced right now... where I am right now doesn't really have enough to offer to make me want to stay, but I don't really know where to go, either. I want to get away, because knowing he's still in this city (which, to make matters ever better, I moved to for him. I moved to this city, which I hate, to be with him... and he left me a month and a half later.)

Anyway, knowing he's still in this city, and knowing that he's the only real reason I'm *in* this city in the first place, is hard to deal with. But like I said... I don't really know where to go. "Home" (that is, where I moved from) isn't really... home anymore. My family moved around the same time I did, and most of my friends have left for universities and such in the last few years. It was a pretty small town, and it just feels too empty, now. Plus, that's where we met and spent most of our relationship, and being a small town... that has it's own set of disadvantages.

So basically, I have no idea what I'm doing with myself or my life. This came out of nowhere, suffice it to say. I feel like I'm starting from square one, when the one thing I thought I knew for sure... disappeared. There was just the knowledge that no matter where I was in ten years, he'd be there, and everything else would work out somehow or another. But thing's change, I guess. :p

Perfectly understandable. Most of us are jerks. And the rest of us, under the right circumstances, are also jerks. :)

Well... have to say. That's sort of what I'm feeling at the moment. :p I love boys, don't get me wrong. I'm one of those girls who has way more guy friends than girl friends. Boys are my mates. They're just also assholes.

Even internet posters? :p

Depends on how well they stalk me, I guess. ;)

No need to rush it, certainly. It's difficult enough as it is when you're NOT on the prowl for it, as i suspect many posters here would and do attest to.

Yeah... some people are telling me to take my time, others are telling me to get myself back out there. "Meeting another guy is the quickest way to get over the last one," they say. Personally, I'm not that kind of person. We were high school sweethearts, my ex and I. I'm not the type do rush into somethings, and I'm not the type to do casual relationships... so the whole 'finding a fling' thing just doesn't jive with me. Oh, well. When it's meant to happen, it'll happen.

I have fallen in love with a person that was seated opposite to me on a wedding. I saw her and my first thought was "Oh my God, that's her" and second "She's way beyond my league". And third: "I have to talk to her". And we talked and talked and talked, on that day and the next.
We got married 364 days later.
Falling in love with my wife was like finding a key to an extremely complex lock - a key that for the first time in my life fits perfectly. It was like entering a new land full of wonders. The more I learned about her, the more I loved her. All her little traits, all her virtues and yes, even her vices, had places in my heart that waited for them so long. We are very, very lucky to meet each other. I repeat that every time I regret that we didn't meet earlier.

That is SO awesome.
I hope others are blessed with something similar and not envy.
:)

I have fallen in love with a person that was seated opposite to me on a wedding. I saw her and my first thought was "Oh my God, that's her" and second "She's way beyond my league". And third: "I have to talk to her". And we talked and talked and talked, on that day and the next.
We got married 364 days later.
Falling in love with my wife was like finding a key to an extremely complex lock - a key that for the first time in my life fits perfectly. It was like entering a new land full of wonders. The more I learned about her, the more I loved her. All her little traits, all her virtues and yes, even her vices, had places in my heart that waited for them so long. We are very, very lucky to meet each other. I repeat that every time I regret that we didn't meet earlier.

:)

I know that moment. Your heart literally says, "Oh... it's you." As if you're not meeting someone for the first time, but recognising them from some time before now.

That's the only way I can think of to describe the moment I knew we'd be something, my ex and I. "It's you". There wasn't any complexity, there wasn't any sweeping gestures or dramatics. Just... Oh, yes. There you are.

By no means would I say I loved him in that moment. I didn't fall in love with him until ten months later. I don't believe in love at first sight, because I believe love means far too much to ever just... exist in an instant. You need to know someone to love them.

But I do believe you can "know", in an instant, that you're going to fall in love. And that's the recognition.

Your story was beautiful.

Well... have to say. That's sort of what I'm feeling at the moment. :p I love boys, don't get me wrong. I'm one of those girls who has way more guy friends than girl friends. Boys are my mates. They're just also assholes.
I find the best works in no pretenses. Things are hard enough as it is with honesty, to say nothing of games. Confusion happens either way.

Depends on how well they stalk me, I guess. ;) Ruffy's good at it! :p

Yeah... some people are telling me to take my time, others are telling me to get myself back out there. "Meeting another guy is the quickest way to get over the last one," they say. Personally, I'm not that kind of person. We were high school sweethearts, my ex and I. I'm not the type do rush into somethings, and I'm not the type to do casual relationships... so the whole 'finding a fling' thing just doesn't jive with me. Oh, well. When it's meant to happen, it'll happen.

I think you should only take as much time to as you need to recognize the difference between yourself (without them), the new person (as not being the ex), and the characteristics of your ex that you were attracted to that may or may not be beneficial to future relationships. That, and how independent you can be (as in, how others won't be necessary to your happiness more than yourself)
.... but, i'm perhaps a bit jaded.
:)

I think you should only take as much time to as you need to recognize the difference between yourself (without them), the new person (as not being the ex), and the characteristics of your ex that you were attracted to that may or may not be beneficial to future relationships. That, and how independent you can be (as in, how others won't be necessary to your happiness more than yourself)
.... but, i'm perhaps a bit jaded.
:)

I definitely agree with figuring out what qualities from your past relationship, on both sides, were beneficial, and which ones weren't. What you liked about your ex and what you liked about yourself in that relationship, and want to have again in future relationships, and what you didn't like.

By no means was I a perfect partner, and when I'm feeling optimistic, I even think that this will be a positive experience, eventually. I've learnt a lot about myself in the last month and a half - what I honestly did wrong in that relationship, what I need to work on, and the simple fact that I don't need someone to make me happy. If I can't make myself happy on my own, I shouldn't be in a relationship. I mean, a significant other might make you happier than you could make yourself on your own, but they should, by no means, be your only source of happiness. And he definitely wasn't... but I did look to him more than I should have.

I also know that there were a lot of things that he did - or didn't do - that made me unhappy. I think, in a lot of ways, we weren't the right people for each other - but we were close. We were so dam close. And personally, I believe the hardest relationships aren't the ones where you're completely wrong for each other and make a disaster of it. It's the relationships where you're 85% right, and you *know* that you're so close to being there... but you also know that you aren't quite, and will never be, perfect for each other. It tears you up inside, because you're right on the doorstep... but in your honest moments, it's just not enough.

Sigh. One day, I'll look back on this and I will know, for a fact, that it turned out exactly the way it needed to. Even if it doesn't feel like it right now.

:p God, I ramble. This is the worst subject for me ever. Get me started and I'll never shut up... guess I'm still at the point where getting it out helps me grieve.

I definitely agree with figuring out what qualities from your past relationship, on both sides, were beneficial, and which ones weren't. What you liked about your ex and what you liked about yourself in that relationship, and want to have again in future relationships, and what you didn't like.

By no means was I a perfect partner, and when I'm feeling optimistic, I even think that this will be a positive experience, eventually. I've learnt a lot about myself in the last month and a half - what I honestly did wrong in that relationship, what I need to work on, and the simple fact that I don't need someone to make me happy. If I can't make myself happy on my own, I shouldn't be in a relationship. I mean, a significant other might make you happier than you could make yourself on your own, but they should, by no means, be your only source of happiness. And he definitely wasn't... but I did look to him more than I should have.

I also know that there were a lot of things that he did - or didn't do - that made me unhappy. I think, in a lot of ways, we weren't the right people for each other - but we were close. We were so dam close. And personally, I believe the hardest relationships aren't the ones where you're completely wrong for each other and make a disaster of it. It's the relationships where you're 85% right, and you *know* that you're so close to being there... but you also know that you aren't quite, and will never be, perfect for each other. It tears you up inside, because you're right on the doorstep... but in your honest moments, it's just not enough.

Sigh. One day, I'll look back on this and I will know, for a fact, that it turned out exactly the way it needed to. Even if it doesn't feel like it right now.

:p God, I ramble. This is the worst subject for me ever. Get me started and I'll never shut up... guess I'm still at the point where getting it out helps me grieve.

Sounds to me like you're doing much better than an average person would in this circumstance.
I'm sure, if it were your choosing, you could make someone very happy in a relationship, so don't beat yourself up over it. :)

Sounds to me like you're doing much better than an average person would in this circumstance.
I'm sure, if it were your choosing, you could make someone very happy in a relationship, so don't beat yourself up over it. :)

Now, aren't you the sweet one tonight? :fluffle:

Btw, I see that I am still in your sig, after all this time :p

Now, aren't you the sweet one tonight? :fluffle:

Btw, I see that I am still in your sig, after all this time :p

Are you stalking me, all stalker-like? :p
Of course the sig wouldn't change.
Unless, of course, mods allowed a bit more than 8 lines. It's all props, ya know.

Are you stalking me, all stalker-like? :p
Of course the sig wouldn't change.
Unless, of course, mods allowed a bit more than 8 lines. It's all props, ya know.

Stalking is such a negative word. I mean, its not like I have a hair doll made in your image...yet :p

Stalking is such a negative word. I mean, its not like I have a hair doll made in your image...yet :p

This reminds me of your lurker thread for many, many reasons. :p

http://dgrants.blogspot.com/2007/03/single-on-valentines-day.html

^ I know it's pretty old, but I figured I'd provide it. I wrote it one lonely Valentine's Day (a year and a half after I had broken up) realizing that whenever I moaned about "being single" I really just moaned about "being alone". Anyway, figured I'd provide it given the course of the discussion so far.

Something very strnage has happened this last page. I don't think the thread is done yet ...

Something very strnage has happened this last page. I don't think the thread is done yet ...
What might that be? Someone perform a random core-dump and have their coordinates reset for the center of a sun or something?

http://dgrants.blogspot.com/2007/03/single-on-valentines-day.html

^ I know it's pretty old, but I figured I'd provide it. I wrote it one lonely Valentine's Day (a year and a half after I had broken up) realizing that whenever I moaned about "being single" I really just moaned about "being alone". Anyway, figured I'd provide it given the course of the discussion so far.

Right on. *bows*

Something very strnage has happened this last page. I don't think the thread is done yet ...
Hey, it's Christmas magic! :D Oops, I mean, non-denominational winter festivity magic.

To Straughn and Amarenthe: both of us thank you!

You know what was funny in the moment I and my wife met? We BOTH thought that the other is beyond reach... :)

Merry Christmas to you all!

http://dgrants.blogspot.com/2007/03/single-on-valentines-day.html

^ I know it's pretty old, but I figured I'd provide it. I wrote it one lonely Valentine's Day (a year and a half after I had broken up) realizing that whenever I moaned about "being single" I really just moaned about "being alone". Anyway, figured I'd provide it given the course of the discussion so far.

I wred along compliantly enough until "it’s intimacy, the knowledge that you two truly are one." That's sentimental BS. No two people are one, no matter how close they may be. Or was that irony?

Don't use a superlative (like "truly") to dress up a cliche, unless you are truly adding something new. For instance, you simply abandoned the rather intriguing discussion of Saint Valentine (whoever that was, as I say you abandoned him.)

OK, I forced myself to finish it. Yes, don't abandon your friends entirely for a lover, yes, value the people who love you even tho' not sexually. Otherwise, meh-ish text.

I don't really know. I think I'm moving to Europe without him. At least, I'm going to give it a try for a few months. Home was wherever he was, you know? So I feel pretty displaced right now... where I am right now doesn't really have enough to offer to make me want to stay, but I don't really know where to go, either. I want to get away, because knowing he's still in this city (which, to make matters ever better, I moved to for him. I moved to this city, which I hate, to be with him... and he left me a month and a half later.)

Anyway, knowing he's still in this city, and knowing that he's the only real reason I'm *in* this city in the first place, is hard to deal with. But like I said... I don't really know where to go. "Home" (that is, where I moved from) isn't really... home anymore. My family moved around the same time I did, and most of my friends have left for universities and such in the last few years. It was a pretty small town, and it just feels too empty, now. Plus, that's where we met and spent most of our relationship, and being a small town... that has it's own set of disadvantages.

So basically, I have no idea what I'm doing with myself or my life. This came out of nowhere, suffice it to say. I feel like I'm starting from square one, when the one thing I thought I knew for sure... disappeared. There was just the knowledge that no matter where I was in ten years, he'd be there, and everything else would work out somehow or another. But thing's change, I guess. :p

you should both take it slow--because decisions you make in time of high stress tend to be mistakes--and not be afraid to make a big change.

no sense staying around a town you dont want to live in. but also no sense in making a move that might tie you to a place you also find you dont want to live in. try to make bold decisions that are good for YOU (not just a reaction to him) that can be reversed if they turn out to be wrong.

Just passed the 5-year mark in my (currently) monogamous heterosexual relationship. Of that 5 years, two were spent in college, two were spent living on opposite sides of the country, and the last year+ has been spent living together in our very first non-studio apartment.
Marry him!

Right on. *bows*

Thank you. :)

I wred along compliantly enough until "it’s intimacy, the knowledge that you two truly are one." That's sentimental BS. No two people are one, no matter how close they may be. Or was that irony?

That section dealt with sex, more specifically as it falls in a relationship where it is supposed to represent the ultimate form of intimacy between two people. A relationship is supposed to represent the zenith of the bond between two people, who are so interconnected with each other that they truly do act as a single unit- it's the kind of "togetherness" where the other person "feels" that they're a part of "you", at least on a deeper level than your friends do. "Friends" are allowed to have some of a disconnect (doesn't mean that they *have* to), a relationship is not supposed to.

Besides, when you're having sex you are technically "physically connected" anyway...

Don't use a superlative (like "truly") to dress up a cliche, unless you are truly adding something new. For instance, you simply abandoned the rather intriguing discussion of Saint Valentine (whoever that was, as I say you abandoned him.)

The article wasn't about St. Valentine so there was no point continuing on that tangent. I felt like sticking it in there out of interest since I was discussing how singles typically feel on Valentine's Day.

OK, I forced myself to finish it. Yes, don't abandon your friends entirely for a lover, yes, value the people who love you even tho' not sexually. Otherwise, meh-ish text.

I understand it's an obvious point to make, but then I turn around and ask: how many times is it forgotten?

To Straughn and Amarenthe: both of us thank you!You're welcome. :)

You know what was funny in the moment I and my wife met? We BOTH thought that the other is beyond reach... :)
That's a very good point - it makes you try that much harder. That helps a LOT.

*snip* [we're talking about your blog entry (http://dgrants.blogspot.com/2007/03/single-on-valentines-day.html)}

That section dealt with sex, more specifically as it falls in a relationship where it is supposed to represent the ultimate form of intimacy between two people. A relationship is supposed to represent the zenith of the bond between two people, who are so interconnected with each other that they truly do act as a single unit- it's the kind of "togetherness" where the other person "feels" that they're a part of "you", at least on a deeper level than your friends do. "Friends" are allowed to have some of a disconnect (doesn't mean that they *have* to), a relationship is not supposed to.

Besides, when you're having sex you are technically "physically connected" anyway...

True that. Yet the participants in sex are not "truly one." You had a true insight, but failed to make it tell ... instead you used a form of words which presented this insight in an ignorable way, as the illusory sense that nothing else matters in the moment of sexual union.

Damn it's been a long time. But I'll never forget ... and the exposition above only serves to remind me, I'm directed to your true meaning ... OK, maybe I had somewhat forgotten. With the clarification, it is good.

That's a very good point - it makes you try that much harder. That helps a LOT.

couldn't it also have the opposite effect and make you give up because she's way out of your league?

I seem to serially enter into 2 month relationships followed by 2 year breaks.

couldn't it also have the opposite effect and make you give up because she's way out of your league?
If I understood Straughn's post correctly, what helps a lot is not the fact that the potential partner seems beyond reach, but the knowledge that in some instances this impression is mutual. :) And it was my intention to make it known. So that when someone, somewhere sees this perfect being of pure light ;), instead of hightainling back into the shadows he or she might think: what the hell, I'll give it a try, 'cause if I don't, I'll be cursing this moment every day of the rest of my life.

If I understood Straughn's post correctly, what helps a lot is not the fact that the potential partner seems beyond reach, but the knowledge that in some instances this impression is mutual. :) And it was my intention to make it known. So that when someone, somewhere sees this perfect being of pure light ;), instead of hightainling back into the shadows he or she might think: what the hell, I'll give it a try, 'cause if I don't, I'll be cursing this moment every day of the rest of my life.

ok, I thought you meant that if you think someone is "out of your league" you try double as hard. But I agree with what you meant to say.
If I'm afraid of something for being turned down or something similar I just imagine she feels the same as me and if one of us doesn't act nothing will happen, this far it hasn't helped a lot in terms of pure success, but I think it's a better mindset than "what if she doesn't like me.." etc. I hope I'm making sense, have a nice christmas or something!

Taken, boys!

Meh...'fraid to say that I'm single.

Got a girlfriend.

Got a girlfriend.

Braggart.

The fact that the first result is the one most voted on means that the last one is most likely true. The last two results are awesome by the way.

This poll should have had the option "All I need is my mother."

Just reading the post about the guy who can't get laid and wondered what everybody's relationship status is on here

Why are 'married' and 'in an open relationship' mutually exclusive...

Why are 'married' and 'in an open relationship' mutually exclusive...

Because our love is forbidden.

It's like the lambada.

Except without the dancing and the bad 80s atmosphere.

Because our love is forbidden.

It's like the lambada.

Except without the dancing and the bad 80s atmosphere.

Nah. This is Georgia. We have the bad 80's atmosphere. Seriously... bad 80's hair, (mullets), and rolled up jacket sleeves and everything. (Yes, add it to the list of 'reasons to hate Georgia')

I was 23 for my first. He'll be fine.

I'm 31 and still haven't had any.

Post about the guy who can't get laid? Please tell me you aren't talking about me:P


Anyways, I am willfully single.

No, he isn't talking about you; he's talking about me. I am UNwillfully single. That is, unless you count the wills of the women I've been interested in dating. THEY are perfectly all right with me being single (defined as "not their boyfriend/husband"). I am the one who doesn't like it.

It's hard to believe you haven't reeled anyone in with that line yet. -_- Maybe you should pay more attention to the rest of the girls in the world who are genuine people. We do exist.

Every day that passes, that gets harder to believe, because I sure can't find any of you.

Perfectly understandable. Most of us are jerks. And the rest of us, under the right circumstances, are also jerks. :)

Speak for yourself! I'm NOT a jerk.

...

Maybe that's my problem; I'm NOT a jerk.

Women claim they don't want men who are jerks, but they sure seem to flock to jerks. :confused:

Why are 'married' and 'in an open relationship' mutually exclusive...
All poll options except the first aren't mutually exclusive. I got married, killed the spouse, married again, divorced, married again, decided it's a waste of time and left the spouse, live in an open relationship and spend too much time on NSG to actually have a working relationship, and that's because all I really need is my hand.
My life sucks.
I mean, hypothetically.

What are you defiant cowards doing talking about (and having) these "relationships" you speak of? The only thing you should be doing is kneeling before me, General Zod, your supreme ruler!

You are henceforth prohibited from having any "relationships" that distract you from your Zod-given duty of kneeling, upon pain of being eye-lasered.

If, however, you manage to have a relationship and kneel before Zod at the same time, then THAT shall be acceptable.

Now KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!

*kneels before Zod*
*Presents Molotov cocktails as tribute*

couldn't it also have the opposite effect and make you give up because she's way out of your league?

It can, but when both parties are interested, they'll give each other enough encouragement, usually.

Speak for yourself! I'm NOT a jerk.

...

Maybe that's my problem; I'm NOT a jerk.The right circumstances always end up availing themselves. Trust me on this one.

I'm 31 and still haven't had any.

Say it with me: Nine more years!

Married and much happier now. To those of you who have been married a year or less, you have to realize the first year sucks. You have all these expectations of how wonderful it'll all be and that's bullshit. You need to work together to see where you want to go. If you're both on the same track, you try and communicate instead of gripe, and keep up on your "personal time," you're going to be all right. That is, unless you are not compatible and shouldn't have been married in the first place. Then you are really fucked. My wife and I have been together for about 8 years, the last 1.5 being married. If you want it to work it will. Otherwise just give up now and salvage the life you have left. Maybe you'll find someone better or die alone. Either way you'll have lived your life as you intended.

Maybe that's my problem; I'm NOT a jerk.

Women claim they don't want men who are jerks, but they sure seem to flock to jerks. :confused:

It's not a matter of "women liking jerks"- it's a matter of the fact that these "jerks" tend to be more self-confident, tend to project a more approachable appearance and very rarely let rejection faze them. On the other hand, the "nice guys" tend to lack self-confidence, project a dour, unapproachable appearance and take rejection very hard. Given all that, you tell me which person a woman's more likely to date? The person who appears inviting and engaging to talk to and never worries about what to say or do or the person who looks like they're in a George A. Romero film, weakly engaging anyone (if at all) worried that any "misstep" could be "the end of it" only to subconsciously tell everyone else "don't come near me" in outwardly displaying their fears?

Now, I (probably) don't know you personally so I won't try to suggest that you are one of the "nice guys" I talked about above nor will I try to even state what you are doing wrong, but I will say there's more to the success of the "jerks" than you may think.

Speak for yourself! I'm NOT a jerk.

...

Maybe that's my problem; I'm NOT a jerk.

Women claim they don't want men who are jerks, but they sure seem to flock to jerks. :confused:

Men who feel the need to point out that they are NOT jerks usually are.
Everybody's a jerk sometimes, the difference is that some people are jerks more often than others.

Men who feel the need to point out that they are NOT jerks usually are.
Everybody's a jerk sometimes, the difference is that some people are jerks more often than others.

I would dispute that post to a certain extent. Right now, I am going to point out that I am not a jerk, and as far as I know, I am not viewed as a jerk by 99% of the population (the other 1% happened to see me on a bad day). Of course, I do agree that we can all be jerks at times, depending upon our situation and that some people are more often jerks than others.

It's not a matter of "women liking jerks"- it's a matter of the fact that these "jerks" tend to be more self-confident, tend to project a more approachable appearance and very rarely let rejection faze them. On the other hand, the "nice guys" tend to lack self-confidence, project a dour, unapproachable appearance and take rejection very hard. Given all that, you tell me which person a woman's more likely to date? The person who appears inviting and engaging to talk to and never worries about what to say or do or the person who looks like they're in a George A. Romero film, weakly engaging anyone (if at all) worried that any "misstep" could be "the end of it" only to subconsciously tell everyone else "don't come near me" in outwardly displaying their fears?

Now, I (probably) don't know you personally so I won't try to suggest that you are one of the "nice guys" I talked about above nor will I try to even state what you are doing wrong, but I will say there's more to the success of the "jerks" than you may think.

About the first paragraph; in my honest opinion, I would not be too sure about whether confidence has too much of an impact on this case. You have to analyse how long the relationships last; if it was a case of confidence that made the women go for jerks, then you would find that the relationships would come to an end quite quickly.

I am willing to suggest that the women go for jerks because there is something they like about them and they are hopeing to change the individual. I am convinced it is something else entirely that causes women to go for jerks more than the nice guy, and it probably has something to do with muscle mass (I have seen more jerks that are muscular than nice guys).

Say it with me: Nine more years!

I know I am not Ohshucksiforgotourname, but as a New Zealander, I am used to saying four more years, so I think I will join in.

The right circumstances always end up availing themselves. Trust me on this one.

The question is, how long must one wait for the "right circumstances" to end up availing themselves. I may only be 18, however, I do get worried that the older I get, the more likely that I will end up being the "creppy virgin" that will have absolutely no chance with the remaining ladies.

Every day that passes, that gets harder to believe, because I sure can't find any of you.

I actually have to agree with this one; where are they? I certainly haven't found any, and of course, if there is one, then I can give you a 99.99999999999999999999% guarantee that they are taken

Sheep don't count :)

Boo *hiss* :(

Right now, I am going to point out that I am not a jerk, and as far as I know, I am not viewed as a jerk by 99% of the population (the other 1% happened to see me on a bad day).One has to ask ... this is based on the sample group of 100 people? I'm curious to see the study firsthand ... as they'd say in math, "show your work" :p

The question is, how long must one wait for the "right circumstances" to end up availing themselves. I may only be 18, however, I do get worried that the older I get, the more likely that I will end up being the "creppy virgin" that will have absolutely no chance with the remaining ladies.
What i meant by the right circumstances availing themselves, was the issue of managing to provide ample evidence that (you) first person *is* actually a jerk on occasion.
I won't say that "right circumstances" apply well to turning initial encounters into meaningful relationships/fulfillment, since that takes some work and many, many people sit to wait it out that perhaps shouldn't do any such thing. Cabra West (who oddly enough thought i was stalking her at one point :p ) had a good point about that.

I actually have to agree with this one; where are they? I certainly haven't found any, and of course, if there is one, then I can give you a 99.99999999999999999999% guarantee that they are takenThere again, show your work. :p

About the first paragraph; in my honest opinion, I would not be too sure about whether confidence has too much of an impact on this case. You have to analyse how long the relationships last; if it was a case of confidence that made the women go for jerks, then you would find that the relationships would come to an end quite quickly.

I am willing to suggest that the women go for jerks because there is something they like about them and they are hopeing to change the individual. I am convinced it is something else entirely that causes women to go for jerks more than the nice guy, and it probably has something to do with muscle mass (I have seen more jerks that are muscular than nice guys).

I've seen that argument before and, frankly, I don't believe it. First of all, the people who are truly jerks don't have relationships that last that long anyway- very few people can get away with mistreating another human being for a long time, and if they do, there's always an extenuating circumstance- e.g., the person was already weak to begin with, the person is too far away from home to "leave easily", etc.

Second of all, from what I understand, the "stereotypical jerk" is always chosen over the "stereotypical nice guy" because the "jerk" is described as more "fun to be around" than the "nice guy". This might sound weird, but if yout think about it, the idea makes sense. As I pointed out in my previous post, the "jerk" is typically inviting and approachable, projecting an image that they'd be someone who might be enjoyable to be around, while the "nice guy" is typically uninviting and unapproachable, projecting an image that they're someone who wouldn't be enjoyable to be around; and how does one project an an inviting, approachable image? Confidence. If you never believe in who you are, you'll never succeed in bringing others in to "discover" who you really are. Yeah, it's a cliche, but if you don't love yourself, how can you expect others to do the same? "The jerk" certainly loves who they are- the "nice guy" never does. Therein lies the difference.

Finally, I'd like to point out that I do have a friend who's very successful with the ladies- and he's not a jerk at all. He's merely confidence and pleasant to be around. Hence, there's no need to mistreat anyone to "get a girl".

Cabra West (who oddly enough thought i was stalking her at one point :p )

*lol Oh, true, I remember... that was weird.

One has to ask ... this is based on the sample group of 100 people? I'm curious to see the study firsthand ... as they'd say in math, "show your work" :p

Actually, this is all based on my interactions with my fellow man. I cannot say that it is scientific, however, it is reasonably close to the truth (I hope).

What i meant by the right circumstances availing themselves, was the issue of managing to provide ample evidence that (you) first person *is* actually a jerk on occasion.

I won't say that "right circumstances" apply well to turning initial encounters into meaningful relationships/fulfillment, since that takes some work and many, many people sit to wait it out that perhaps shouldn't do any such thing. Cabra West (who oddly enough thought i was stalking her at one point :p ) had a good point about that.

Fair enough

There again, show your work. :p

It is the same as above, very, very good guesswork

I've seen that argument before and, frankly, I don't believe it. First of all, the people who are truly jerks don't have relationships that last that long anyway- very few people can get away with mistreating another human being for a long time, and if they do, there's always an extenuating circumstance- e.g., the person was already weak to begin with, the person is too far away from home to "leave easily", etc.

Fair enough; I can see where you are coming from, and would almost answer the question that I had in my earlier post.

Second of all, from what I understand, the "stereotypical jerk" is always chosen over the "stereotypical nice guy" because the "jerk" is described as more "fun to be around" than the "nice guy". This might sound weird, but if yout think about it, the idea makes sense. As I pointed out in my previous post, the "jerk" is typically inviting and approachable, projecting an image that they'd be someone who might be enjoyable to be around, while the "nice guy" is typically uninviting and unapproachable, projecting an image that they're someone who wouldn't be enjoyable to be around; and how does one project an an inviting, approachable image? Confidence. If you never believe in who you are, you'll never succeed in bringing others in to "discover" who you really are. Yeah, it's a cliche, but if you don't love yourself, how can you expect others to do the same? "The jerk" certainly loves who they are- the "nice guy" never does. Therein lies the difference.

I would dispute the final part of this paragraph. The majority of "nice guys" loves who they are, however, there are other barriers that come in the way of people knowing who they truly are. Of course, the other thing is that one can display confidence and still lack the features to grab the females; certainly I have seen enough of that down here in New Zealand - if you lack muscles in this place, your chances of getting females goes through the floor.

Finally, I'd like to point out that I do have a friend who's very successful with the ladies- and he's not a jerk at all. He's merely confidence and pleasant to be around. Hence, there's no need to mistreat anyone to "get a girl".

Does he have large muscles? What other things must one consider?

Does he have large muscles? What other things must one consider?

Jeez, will you please grow up? :rolleyes:
What kind of a girl are you looking for? A brainless blonde bimbo who believes she has to go out with the guy who wins the knife fight?

A brainless blonde bimbo who believes she has to go out with the guy who wins the knife fight?What's wrong with neanderthals CW? Are you a racist? :p

BTW, what's that about stalking? I'm all curious & stuffs now.

if you lack muscles in this place, your chances of getting females goes through the floor.
Perhaps your chances would be better if you didn't refer to the girls who don't fall for big muscles as "dregs". I'm sure it was unintentional - and all the more telling.

What's wrong with neanderthals CW? Are you a racist? :p

BTW, what's that about stalking? I'm all curious & stuffs now.

I couldn't care less about races, I never won one in my life ;)
If anything, you might call me an intellectualist...

The stalking business was a really long time ago now...

The question is, how long must one wait for the "right circumstances" to end up availing themselves. I may only be 18, however, I do get worried that the older I get, the more likely that I will end up being the "creppy virgin" that will have absolutely no chance with the remaining ladies.

Maybe you should be less desperate about becoming the "creepy virgin" and gain more self-confidence. Don't forget girls are like dogs, they can smell desperation and fear, and don't like it's foul stench.

Maybe you should be less desperate about becoming the "creepy virgin" and gain more self-confidence. Don't forget girls are like dogs, they can smell desperation and fear, and don't like it's foul stench.

DOGS???

I've been called a bitch before, but a dog??? :p

DOGS???

I've been called a bitch before, but a dog??? :p

ok, pigs then, I've heard they also have an excellent sense of smell :p

ok, pigs then, I've heard they also have an excellent sense of smell :p

Why not call us sharks, then? I believe they've got the best sense of smell in the animal kingdom :p

Why not call us sharks, then? I believe they've got the best sense of smell in the animal kingdom :pWhatever it's called when a guy reacts to hearing something painful happened to another guy's genitalia, you just made me do it. Congratulations, Cabra Wicked.

On the whinyness topic though: maybe you should try to think of girls as equals, Alexandrian Ptolemais.

What an interesting poll - I just learned that Wilgrove must have broken up with his girlfriend and that Boonytopia is *gasp* married! :eek:

As for myself, I've finally been able to persuade my long-term best friend that he'll has to overcome his blasted fears and have us be together already yesterday, so I guess that officially and legitimately makes me "in a relationship" now :] Yes, Fass, we did it. Yes, it's the time where you congratulate me.
:eek: Reading the thread is even better than looking at the poll. He?!

Perhaps I should have voted the last option, but ... cause and effect. I spend so much time here because I'm not in a relationship, not vice versa.

Ditto here. :(

My last girlfriend and I split up when we both left the country. We did both move back to the States, but to different states. Also, she had a "spiritual crisis" and decided that she can't be with someone who doesn't love the Jesus. Also, she was severely browbeat by her parents (her father is a preacher) and ex-boyfriend (a church youth group leader) into not visiting me last summer due to my heathen ways. Her mother taking part in that really bothers me because I met her when she came to visit the girl in France and she really seemed to like me.

For a while she was considering moving up here or me moving down there. For me to consider leaving my state to go to another US state should tell some of the regulars exactly how I felt about her. And now, six months later she's engaged to the youth group leader and I'm continuing the nomadic lifestyle of moving at least annually that's generally kept me from getting into relationships.

Actually, this is all based on my interactions with my fellow man. I cannot say that it is scientific, however, it is reasonably close to the truth (I hope).
I would hope, then, that you won't resign yourself to only a marginal effect on the opposite sex. Life is hard enough, you don't have to give it reason to beat you further.

It is the same as above, very, very good guessworkYou don't have any anecdotes about it then, eh? Those can be helpful in certain circumstances.

*lol Oh, true, I remember... that was weird.
If i do any stalking, i'm not particularly nefarious about it. :p
How'd WYTYG put it a little while back?
subtle
:D

eugh. Relationships aren't hard - getting to them is what's incredibly taxing.

I have that same problem; I never can seem to establish or start any kind of a relationship. :(

It's not a matter of "women liking jerks"- it's a matter of the fact that these "jerks" tend to be more self-confident, tend to project a more approachable appearance and very rarely let rejection faze them. On the other hand, the "nice guys" tend to lack self-confidence, project a dour, unapproachable appearance and take rejection very hard. Given all that, you tell me which person a woman's more likely to date? The person who appears inviting and engaging to talk to and never worries about what to say or do or the person who looks like they're in a George A. Romero film, weakly engaging anyone (if at all) worried that any "misstep" could be "the end of it" only to subconsciously tell everyone else "don't come near me" in outwardly displaying their fears?

Now, I (probably) don't know you personally so I won't try to suggest that you are one of the "nice guys" I talked about above nor will I try to even state what you are doing wrong, but I will say there's more to the success of the "jerks" than you may think.


Sadly, I am one of those "nice guys" you described. But that's all I know! Of course I take rejection very hard because I don't know how to deal with it, nor what I did wrong to get rejected. "Weakly engaging anyone (if at all) worried that any "misstep" could be 'the end of it'" is all I know. I simply don't know HOW to act otherwise.

I worry about what to say or do because I DON'T KNOW WHAT to say or do, and NO ONE WILL TELL ME! Every time I ask anyone about this sort of thing, they always tell me "it all depends", "you've got to 'play it by ear'" and unhelpful junk like that! I simply don't know how to hide my emotions, and if I'm feeling worried, afraid, or on edge, it automatically comes out.

PLEASE HELP!

nor will I try to even state what you are doing wrong

But I DON'T KNOW what I'm doing wrong! All I know is, I'm being rejected, and I don't know what I did (or didn't do) to merit rejection, and nobody will tell me, and it hurts my feelings, and I can't hide how I feel!

:(

Men who feel the need to point out that they are NOT jerks usually are.
Everybody's a jerk sometimes, the difference is that some people are jerks more often than others.

NO, saying I'm not a jerk does NOT mean I am one, and DON'T call me one! :mad:

EDIT: This is not to say that I'm not capable of occasionally acting like a jerk. I probably have done so at times; what I'm trying to say is that it would not be accurate to characterize me as being a jerk.

Sadly, I am one of those "nice guys" you described. But that's all I know! Of course I take rejection very hard because I don't know how to deal with it, nor what I did wrong to get rejected. "Weakly engaging anyone (if at all) worried that any "misstep" could be 'the end of it'" is all I know. I simply don't know HOW to act otherwise.

I worry about what to say or do because I DON'T KNOW WHAT to say or do, and NO ONE WILL TELL ME! Every time I ask anyone about this sort of thing, they always tell me "it all depends", "you've got to 'play it by ear'" and unhelpful junk like that! I simply don't know how to hide my emotions, and if I'm feeling worried, afraid, or on edge, it automatically comes out.

PLEASE HELP!



But I DON'T KNOW what I'm doing wrong! All I know is, I'm being rejected, and I don't know what I did (or didn't do) to merit rejection, and nobody will tell me, and it hurts my feelings, and I can't hide how I feel!

:(

I'm sensing some difficulty here, and perhaps you should review this post of yours and the one above, for reflection.

I would dispute the final part of this paragraph. The majority of "nice guys" loves who they are, however, there are other barriers that come in the way of people knowing who they truly are. Of course, the other thing is that one can display confidence and still lack the features to grab the females; certainly I have seen enough of that down here in New Zealand - if you lack muscles in this place, your chances of getting females goes through the floor.

Most "nice guys" I know at the very least do not "love" the fact they are single or the fact that they've been rejected a lot. It's not simply a matter of them being necessarily completely unhappy with themselves, just with the part that debilitates their ability to "get the girl".

You are right about the "nice guy" having barriers to expressing who they are, because they put them up themselves. They are so afraid of rejection that they don't allow others to "see who they are", out of the fear (subconsciously or consciously) that if they do reveal their true character they "might not be liked". Why does that happen? Low self-esteem- i.e., "not loving themselves". The first hurdle is to rid the fear of rejection, because that stops anyone from truly getting to know "the nice guy" and then formulating an opinion on whether or not they want to date said individual. The next step would be "being content with being single", because- as others have pointed out- pursuing a relationship in vain wreaks of desperation and that is simply not attractive. Do you really think a girl's going to like a guy that's just looking to cling on to anyone? I doubt it, and I think it's only going to get "the nice guy" hurt- if one thinks "I'll just take anyone" then they're more likely going to enter into a relationship where the other person is so not right for them that it can only end in failure- all because they didn't take the time to "consider" them first.

Does he have large muscles? What other things must one consider?

No he doesn't.

Sadly, I am one of those "nice guys" you described. But that's all I know! Of course I take rejection very hard because I don't know how to deal with it, nor what I did wrong to get rejected. "Weakly engaging anyone (if at all) worried that any "misstep" could be 'the end of it'" is all I know. I simply don't know HOW to act otherwise.

You seriously need to reprogram yourself. It's not easy but it's necessary. You really have to start thinking "if it doesn't work out, there will be another one". You also have to understand "how you failed" and learn from the experience. I would say, most importantly, you've got to stop pressuring yourself and stop taking rejections like they're the end of the world- it's not like those women are truly "the last women on Earth".

I worry about what to say or do because I DON'T KNOW WHAT to say or do, and NO ONE WILL TELL ME! Every time I ask anyone about this sort of thing, they always tell me "it all depends", "you've got to 'play it by ear'" and unhelpful junk like that! I simply don't know how to hide my emotions, and if I'm feeling worried, afraid, or on edge, it automatically comes out.

PLEASE HELP!

That I can't tell you. You're subscribing to a belief that there's a "one size fits all" maxim regarding human interaction and it just doesn't exist- what statements and actions work with one person don't work on another. It's really a matter of trial and error, I'm afraid.

I do think you ought to find out who you are first. If you keep on fumbling for what to say to women methinks you're not finding women you're connecting with (i.e., sharing common interests, values, etc.) to begin with.

Most "nice guys" I know at the very least do not "love" the fact they are single or the fact that they've been rejected a lot. It's not simply a matter of them being necessarily completely unhappy with themselves, just with the part that debilitates their ability to "get the girl".


I'm a 'nice guy', and I've never had a problem 'getting the girl'.

There seems to be confusion, here - why are we conflating 'nice guy' with 'shy guy' or 'perpetually single guy'?


That I can't tell you. You're subscribing to a belief that there's a "one size fits all" maxim regarding human interaction and it just doesn't exist- what statements and actions work with one person don't work on another. It's really a matter of trial and error, I'm afraid.


This is true. Anyone who is looking for some magic 'line' that always 'works' is missing the point. Not to mention, relationships aren't a trick or a challenge you have to beat or cheat... people respond to treating them as just 'other people'... rather than as obstacles, or potential conquests.

I worry about what to say or do because I DON'T KNOW WHAT to say or do, and NO ONE WILL TELL ME!
Things that always work as a beginning of conversation:
- last holidays and where to go next
- work and/or education
That usually leads to other areas of interest, preferably common. Talk about your interests and ask her of hers. Once you do talk for a while and find some common ground, the tension tends to fade and all should go naturally.
Remember that when you haven't much to talk about, you probably wouldn't make good partners. So don't sweat it trying too hard to find anything to keep the conversation from dying.

I'm sensing some difficulty here, and perhaps you should review this post of yours and the one above, for reflection.

Okay, what is that supposed to mean? :confused:

Most "nice guys" I know at the very least do not "love" the fact they are single or the fact that they've been rejected a lot.

You're @#%&$ right I don't love being rejected.

Is that what women want, a guy who THRIVES on rejection, who LOVES it, CAN'T GET ENOUGH of it? :mad: :rolleyes:

You are right about the "nice guy" having barriers to expressing who they are, because they put them up themselves. They are so afraid of rejection that they don't allow others to "see who they are", out of the fear (subconsciously or consciously) that if they do reveal their true character they "might not be liked".

Frankly, I don't know HOW to express "who I am" because, for lack of a better way of phrasing it, I simply DON'T KNOW who I am. (Not in the sense of not knowing my name/identity, but in a sense that I don't really know the words to describe.) People are always telling me to "be yourself", and it's almost as helpful as a screen door on a submarine. How do I go about "being myself"? What is that?

Why does that happen? Low self-esteem- i.e., "not loving themselves".

Of COURSE I don't "love" myself; I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPRESS MYSELF. I find THAT very difficult, if not absolutely impossible, to "love".

The first hurdle is to rid the fear of rejection

Easy for you to say.

because that stops anyone from truly getting to know "the nice guy" and then formulating an opinion on whether or not they want to date said individual.

Even if they initially decide they want to date me, they end up dumping me after a few months with some "Let's be 'friends'" line, which I'm SO sick of hearing.

The next step would be "being content with being single"

Okay, THIS idea...
...
...
...
This is, for lack of a better expression, like a slap in the face (I don't think that is the expression I am looking for). I mean, it's obvious I am NOT content with, and am in fact BITTER about, being single.

And you're asking me to change my feelings on that.

That seems so...(*what is the word I'm looking for?*)...abhorrent. (I guess; I'm not sure that's the word I want)

But even otherwise, HOW do I go about doing THAT? All I know is wanting to be married, and being heartbroken that I'm not.

because- as others have pointed out- pursuing a relationship in vain wreaks of desperation and that is simply not attractive.

In other words, even though women are always making a big deal about commitments, they don't want a man who wants a commitment? That's what that sounds like to me.

Or to put it another way: women don't want a relationship with a man who DOES want a relationship with them.

Or again: "He wants me, so I DON'T want him."

I hope I'm severely misunderstanding you, because if I'm not, then I don't know WHAT I'm going to do.

And about "desperation": The first time it was easy not to be desperate, but by about the 12,387th time, I no longer know how to not be desperate.

You seriously need to reprogram yourself. It's not easy but it's necessary. You really have to start thinking "if it doesn't work out, there will be another one".

It has not worked out yet. It is becoming harder and harder to believe there will be another one. I am no longer sure it's true.

You also have to understand "how you failed" and learn from the experience.

I don't KNOW how I failed, and no one will tell me. How am I supposed to learn from such an experience?

I would say, most importantly, you've got to stop pressuring yourself and stop taking rejections like they're the end of the world- it's not like those women are truly "the last women on Earth".

The pressure is not coming from me; I don't know where it comes from, but it's certainly there. And, by sharp contrast, the woman NEVER appears to me to be nervous, uneasy, or awkward; she always looks calm, cool, rehearsed (for lack of a better word), and from this contrast I get the impression that she enjoys watching me squirm and sweat from extreme social discomfort, so she can have an excuse not to even date me again, let alone spend the rest of her life with me.

This is not to say that she IS doing such a thing, but it is very believable to me.

That I can't tell you.

But that's just the problem: you can't tell me, and I need someone to tell me

You're subscribing to a belief that there's a "one size fits all" maxim regarding human interaction and it just doesn't exist

I don't know if I can bring myself to believe that, because everybody is always asking me "When you gon' get married?" or "When you gon' get you a girlfriend?" Nobody else seems to have any problem with it, so it's easy for me to believe that there IS a "one size fits all" maxim regarding human interaction, and that it's NOT my size.

what statements and actions work with one person don't work on another. It's really a matter of trial and error, I'm afraid.

Well, I've always been under the impression that phrases such as "Hi there! Would you mind going out with me tonight?", spoken to a complete stranger, never work. Of course, I've always been afraid of being slapped in the face in return, so I've never tried it. Do you think it would work?

I do think you ought to find out who you are first. If you keep on fumbling for what to say to women methinks you're not finding women you're connecting with (i.e., sharing common interests, values, etc.) to begin with.

I certainly hope, and want to believe, that THAT, and not my own personality or lack thereof, is the problem.

Things that always work as a beginning of conversation:
- last holidays and where to go next
- work and/or education

They never seem to work for me.

That usually leads to other areas of interest, preferably common. Talk about your interests and ask her of hers. Once you do talk for a while and find some common ground, the tension tends to fade and all should go naturally.

Yes, the tension SHOULD fade and all SHOULD go naturally, but it never does because I am afraid to talk about my interests because:
1. I don't HAVE very many interests
2. I don't know very well how to talk about them

I have never managed to get to "first base" with a woman, never mind making her want to spend the rest of her life with me.

Remember that when you haven't much to talk about, you probably wouldn't make good partners. So don't sweat it trying too hard to find anything to keep the conversation from dying.

Well, in my case it's more like I don't have much I feel comfortable, or at ease, talking about.

Is that what women want, a guy who THRIVES on rejection, who LOVES it, CAN'T GET ENOUGH of it? :mad: :rolleyes:


There is no 'what women want'.

Strange to relate, women are a lot like men... they all want different things.


Even if they initially decide they want to date me, they end up dumping me after a few months with some "Let's be 'friends'" line, which I'm SO sick of hearing.


Part of youre problem seems to be a holloywood fixation on what to expect from a relationship. This is real life. In real life, some relationships work out, and others don't.


But even otherwise, HOW do I go about doing THAT? All I know is wanting to be married, and being heartbroken that I'm not.


There's the bulk of your problem. You're not in love... you're in love with the idea of being in love.

You are essentially presenting the facade of 'anyone will do, so long as I get a wedding'... and it's not hard to work out why that's unappealing.

What is there to make someone feel special in that?


In other words, even though women are always making a big deal about commitments, they don't want a man who wants a commitment? That's what that sounds like to me.


Not at all - who wants a commitment that is based on just wanting commitment?


Or to put it another way: women don't want a relationship with a man who DOES want a relationship with them.


No - you miss it. A woman might want a relationship with a man who wants a relationship with her - but she's going to want to be the inspiration of eternity, not a means to an end.


The pressure is not coming from me; I don't know where it comes from, but it's certainly there. And, by sharp contrast, the woman NEVER appears to me to be nervous, uneasy, or awkward; she always looks calm, cool, rehearsed (for lack of a better word), and from this contrast I get the impression that she enjoys watching me squirm and sweat from extreme social discomfort, so she can have an excuse not to even date me again, let alone spend the rest of her life with me.


They always look cool, calm and rehearsed? Maybe you are attracted to confident girls? Maybe that's kind of shooting yourself in the foot?

There is no 'what women want'.

Strange to relate, women are a lot like men... they all want different things.



Part of youre problem seems to be a holloywood fixation on what to expect from a relationship. This is real life. In real life, some relationships work out, and others don't.



There's the bulk of your problem. You're not in love... you're in love with the idea of being in love.

You are essentially presenting the facade of 'anyone will do, so long as I get a wedding'... and it's not hard to work out why that's unappealing.

What is there to make someone feel special in that?



Not at all - who wants a commitment that is based on just wanting commitment?



No - you miss it. A woman might want a relationship with a man who wants a relationship with her - but she's going to want to be the inspiration of eternity, not a means to an end.



They always look cool, calm and rehearsed? Maybe you are attracted to confident girls? Maybe that's kind of shooting yourself in the foot?

Thanks, you've enlightened me, at least somewhat. At the very least, I now feel a little bit better about myself. :)



Or maybe that's just the Zoloft kicking in? :p


But seriously:

So you're saying I should not be obsessed with getting married, but rather wait for true love to come along?

Sounds good to me, but in the back of my mind there's this nagging feeling that true love has slapped me in the face, and if so then I didn't recognize it as such, and don't even know when or where it happened.

Sometimes I leave myself with the distinct impression that I wouldn't know Miss/Ms. Right if she hit me over the head with a baseball bat.

Maybe you are attracted to confident girls?

It's not so much whether or not I am attracted to confident girls; it's more like I feel like no one knows how I feel.

I'm not completely sure that's what I'm trying to say, but I don't know how else to say it.











Anyway, thanks for caring and being concerned enough to respond helpfully. You put it in such a way as to make the light bulb come on over my head.

Thanks, you've enlightened me, at least somewhat. At the very least, I now feel a little bit better about myself. :)

Or maybe that's just the Zoloft kicking in? :p

But seriously:

So you're saying I should not be obsessed with getting married, but rather wait for true love to come along?

Sounds good to me, but in the back of my mind there's this nagging feeling that true love has slapped me in the face, and if so then I didn't recognize it as such, and don't even know when or where it happened.

Sometimes I leave myself with the distinct impression that I wouldn't know Miss/Ms. Right if she hit me over the head with a baseball bat.

Focusing on 'the goal' is self-destructive.

Example: if two girls want to have sex with me, and one of them wants me because she loves me, and the other wants me because she fancies a shag and I'm closest... I'm likely to think more favourably about the former, and start edging away from the latter.

If you can get your head round it, accept that either: 1) you may well never marry... and/or 2) if you do marry, it may be well in your future.

In the meantime, you should be looking for people you like to spend time with, with or without romantic attachment. I'm not saying you should be trying to sleep with anything that moves - I'm not saying you should remain pure and chaste... all I'm saying is, don't worry about if you'll be married in ten years time - worry about concentrating on now - meet people, talk to people, maybe go for a few drinks. Whatever - get to know some people... really know them. Maybe something will happen while you are looking, maybe not - but it's the journey that's important, not the destination.

It's not so much whether or not I am attracted to confident girls; it's more like I feel like no one knows how I feel.


No one knows how you feel. It's true. And you don't know how they feel. That's just how it is.

And that's probably the biggest obstacle - getting past our own crap, to find out about each other.

The idea of people just clicking and knowing each other inside-out... is a hollywood myth, for the most part. It kinda happens, sometimes... but it's far from the default realationship. (I have one friend like that, we can finish each otehr's sentences, etc... but we are not romantically entangled, just really good friends).


Anyway, thanks for caring and being concerned enough to respond helpfully. You put it in such a way as to make the light bulb come on over my head.

Half the people say I'm helpful, and half of them say I'm an asshole. That makes me think I have the balance about right. :D

Still hopelessly in love with someone who will never love me back.

I am currently unsure of my status. But I will say "relationship" in order to make NSG look sexier.

Sorry guys, didn't mean to ignore this thread. Got caught up in another, much longer thread (that, and New Year's).

I'm a 'nice guy', and I've never had a problem 'getting the girl'.

There seems to be confusion, here - why are we conflating 'nice guy' with 'shy guy' or 'perpetually single guy'?

I know- I figured I'd use "nice guy" in quotation marks to denote the stereotypical "nice guy"- you know, the one that complains "I'm a nice guy but I can't seem to get the girl". Oftentimes what's missed is that there's other factors in play regarding the failure of the individual to obtain the object of his desire- and none of it has anything to do with how "nice" he is.

You're @#%&$ right I don't love being rejected.

Is that what women want, a guy who THRIVES on rejection, who LOVES it, CAN'T GET ENOUGH of it? :mad: :rolleyes:

I doubt most women "love" to reject a guy- might come across that way since I'm sure there's women who do get actively pursued by many guys by which point "rejection" becomes a well-refined "art"- they're just so good at it that they have a response ready for any guy they're not interested in.

The trick is to brush off the rejection and try again. Just because you don't get one particular girl doesn't mean it's the end of the world- there are three billion other girls out there for you to choose from. Furthermore, some women do enjoy "playing hard to get", so having persistence might pay off (just don't go too far with it since it can land you in trouble).

Frankly, I don't know HOW to express "who I am" because, for lack of a better way of phrasing it, I simply DON'T KNOW who I am. (Not in the sense of not knowing my name/identity, but in a sense that I don't really know the words to describe.) People are always telling me to "be yourself", and it's almost as helpful as a screen door on a submarine. How do I go about "being myself"? What is that?

"Being yourself" means to be natural- don't assume a character. You want someone to fall in love with you, not some guy you made up because you thought it'd be cool.

As far as "knowing who you are", I think you *do* know that. You have interests, hobbies, ambitions, values, etc., right? That is "who you are". Maybe you ought to think about it and piece it all together one day- that's what you seem to be lacking here.

Of COURSE I don't "love" myself; I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPRESS MYSELF. I find THAT very difficult, if not absolutely impossible, to "love".

^ See above.

Easy for you to say.

I know it's not easy but it's vital. How do you expect to meet anyone- let alone a girlfriend- if you prevent yourself from trying out of the fear of failure? Relationships with people are very much "trial and error", so you have to expect a few failures along the way before something pans out.

Even if they initially decide they want to date me, they end up dumping me after a few months with some "Let's be 'friends'" line, which I'm SO sick of hearing.

This goes back to the whole "fear of rejection" thing- some relationships pan out, others don't. Trial and error, my friend- it's the only way it works.

Seems like maybe you're rushing into things and not taking the time to let relationships develop. I'm very much of the maxim that one has to be "friends first" before entering a relationship, judging by how well it seems to work (from anecdotal evidence) and by the fact a relationship is merely a type of bond. A bond is something that only develops naturally- you can't just "expect" it to happen.

Finally, friendship isn't so bad. Here, have a look at this- I wrote it and posted it earlier in the thread:

http://dgrants.blogspot.com/2007/03/single-on-valentines-day.html

Okay, THIS idea...
...
...
...
This is, for lack of a better expression, like a slap in the face (I don't think that is the expression I am looking for). I mean, it's obvious I am NOT content with, and am in fact BITTER about, being single.

And you're asking me to change my feelings on that.

That seems so...(*what is the word I'm looking for?*)...abhorrent. (I guess; I'm not sure that's the word I want)

But even otherwise, HOW do I go about doing THAT? All I know is wanting to be married, and being heartbroken that I'm not.

I never said you had to like it- just accept it. You need to learn how to "take life as it goes" and stop trying to "force the issue"- there's no use complaining about your situation and how you got here because that will do you no good. What's happened in the past has happened and you can't change that- the future, however, you can change.

What you need to do is figure out what's preventing you from getting into a relationship and address it. I know it's not easy and you may need to look to others for help, but you can't solve the problem by bruting about it- you need to be proactive. In the meantime, look at the positives about being single- you get to flirt with whomever you like without having to answer to anyone, you have a considerable amount of freedom and you don't have to deal with all the emotions and baggage that comes with a relationship (trust me, it's no walk in the park). Yeah, I know you've probably already heard all that about being single- but if you can't come to terms with your own situation you can't go about changing it.

In other words, even though women are always making a big deal about commitments, they don't want a man who wants a commitment? That's what that sounds like to me.

Or to put it another way: women don't want a relationship with a man who DOES want a relationship with them.

Or again: "He wants me, so I DON'T want him."

I hope I'm severely misunderstanding you, because if I'm not, then I don't know WHAT I'm going to do.

And about "desperation": The first time it was easy not to be desperate, but by about the 12,387th time, I no longer know how to not be desperate.

What I meant is that you can't enter into a relationship for the sake of entering a relationship- you have to enter into a relationship because you genuinely like the other person and figure there's long-term potential. Otherwise you'll just get hurt.

As for your failures: keep plugging, that's all I'll say. Maybe you need 13,000 tries before it works out- I know failure stinks but it's a fact of life. I do know- as I said before- desperation will just drive girls away, not bring them to you.

It has not worked out yet. It is becoming harder and harder to believe there will be another one. I am no longer sure it's true.

Such a defeatist attitude will get you nowhere. Once you already admit you're done, then there's nothing left for you to do as you've already admitted there's no point in continuing the trek.

I don't KNOW how I failed, and no one will tell me. How am I supposed to learn from such an experience?

Think about it. I don't know you so I can't say how you failed. Only you can answer that question.

The pressure is not coming from me; I don't know where it comes from, but it's certainly there. And, by sharp contrast, the woman NEVER appears to me to be nervous, uneasy, or awkward; she always looks calm, cool, rehearsed (for lack of a better word), and from this contrast I get the impression that she enjoys watching me squirm and sweat from extreme social discomfort, so she can have an excuse not to even date me again, let alone spend the rest of her life with me.

This is not to say that she IS doing such a thing, but it is very believable to me.

I doubt it- seems to me like you're replaying one experience and juxtaposing it onto all the others. I don't believe *all* the women who rejected you were *all* rehearsed.

In any case, even if they were, as Grave_n_idle said, maybe it's got something to do with who you're attracted to (he said "confident", I'll say "strong-willed", as I think that's the better term here). If none of your dates are working out it's probably because you're going after the wrong targets, and it's up to you to figure out who are the right ones.

But that's just the problem: you can't tell me, and I need someone to tell me

As much as I'm not particularly fond of the "self-help" industry (because they're trying to rationalize the irrational and fit everything into the same box when it can't), I suggest you do some reading (of a plethora of sources) and take out things you like from it. It won't be the complete solution but it's a start. Ultimately, though, it's all about trial and error- you won't find the answer any other way.

I don't know if I can bring myself to believe that, because everybody is always asking me "When you gon' get married?" or "When you gon' get you a girlfriend?" Nobody else seems to have any problem with it, so it's easy for me to believe that there IS a "one size fits all" maxim regarding human interaction, and that it's NOT my size.

No, you seem to be blowing out of proportion your own problems- c'mon, you're not the *only* single guy at 31 (right?) out there are you? Yeah, there probably are "trends" amongst human activity (such as marrying at 30) but they're not true for *all* humans. You seem fixated on the idea that life has a "schedule"- it doesn't and it makes no sense to force one on it.

Well, I've always been under the impression that phrases such as "Hi there! Would you mind going out with me tonight?", spoken to a complete stranger, never work. Of course, I've always been afraid of being slapped in the face in return, so I've never tried it. Do you think it would work?

Maybe with one out of every hundred or so people. However, if you want to increase your chances of landing a date you need to strike conversations with the girls you meet so you can establish that "connection" where you'll just "know" you can ask that girl out. You probably also need to work on meeting people- and I don't mean "just by going to the bars/clubs". See a girl alone on the park bench or in line just ahead of you? Say "hi" and see where it goes. Join a club for something that interests you (so you can meet more like-minded individuals) and/or take up something like a salsa dance class or rec-league sports. Finally, see if family and friends can hook you up, as they're most likely to know who's the "best fit for you" and thus can be extremely reliable.

The bottom line is you've got to increase your options because only then will you find paths you didn't think were there but will lead you to your goal.

I certainly hope, and want to believe, that THAT, and not my own personality or lack thereof, is the problem.

I'd say it is. Good conversation is all about chemistry- and you don't have that without a connection.

They never seem to work for me.

Why not? Maybe it's in your delivery?

Yes, the tension SHOULD fade and all SHOULD go naturally, but it never does because I am afraid to talk about my interests because:
1. I don't HAVE very many interests
2. I don't know very well how to talk about them

I have never managed to get to "first base" with a woman, never mind making her want to spend the rest of her life with me.

Apart from also "finding who you are", work on your conversation skills. Talk to your friends and do some reading, but especially talk to your friends- I mean, if you can communicate well with them then certainly you're able to do it with a girl. You did meet your friends at one point, did you not?

Well, in my case it's more like I don't have much I feel comfortable, or at ease, talking about.

Maybe you're not "at ease" with yourself. That involves a mindset change- you have to stop thinking "no one will be interested in what I say" and change it to "I'm an interesting person who's very capable of talking about a vareity of things". As much as you want to know the girls the girls want to know you- and if you encase yourself in a shell they won't get to do that; and thus have no reason to be interested, for that matter.

I am currently unsure of my status. But I will say "relationship" in order to make NSG look sexier.

Sounds better than "Being stalked" at any rate :p

My last girlfriend and I split up when we both left the country. We did both move back to the States, but to different states. Also, she had a "spiritual crisis" and decided that she can't be with someone who doesn't love the Jesus. Also, she was severely browbeat by her parents (her father is a preacher) and ex-boyfriend (a church youth group leader) into not visiting me last summer due to my heathen ways. Her mother taking part in that really bothers me because I met her when she came to visit the girl in France and she really seemed to like me.

For a while she was considering moving up here or me moving down there. For me to consider leaving my state to go to another US state should tell some of the regulars exactly how I felt about her. And now, six months later she's engaged to the youth group leader and I'm continuing the nomadic lifestyle of moving at least annually that's generally kept me from getting into relationships.
Oh, wow, that's harsh. And scary, with the religion thing. I thought you were still together. I'm sorry. *hug*

I don't like relationships... or I don't like most people when they're in a relationship... they suddenly change and become amazingly possessive and clingy. I don't like that.

I be single.

I be single.

You be dead bitch!

You be dead bitch!

No, it can't be! :eek:;)

Okay, what is that supposed to mean? :confused:

RomeW put it quite well.
It's understandable that a series of failures would convince you that you are actually of a certain persuasion, but consider doing something different with your approach each time.
To quote Monty Python, if i may ...
Adopt, adapt, and improve.
Just a pair of knickers, then.

My last girlfriend and I split up when we both left the country. We did both move back to the States, but to different states. Also, she had a "spiritual crisis" and decided that she can't be with someone who doesn't love the Jesus. Also, she was severely browbeat by her parents (her father is a preacher) and ex-boyfriend (a church youth group leader) into not visiting me last summer due to my heathen ways. Her mother taking part in that really bothers me because I met her when she came to visit the girl in France and she really seemed to like me.I got a Bible-zine for Christmas last year. Some of the worst advice ever. There's a regular column called "Guard Your Heart" in it that has snappy 3 sentence reccommendations as to why one shouldn't fall in love with someone that isn't fundamentalist. :rolleyes:

I be single.Good grief! It lives! :eek:

It lives! *relative statement*

That statement is just a tad bit incorrect... it's not forced down the throat. I'm late in saying it but I had too...
But, but.. I'm a Stomach Incubator?

:eek: Reading the thread is even better than looking at the poll. He?!
Uh-huh. You gotta problem? *mock-raises fists*

But, but.. I'm a Stomach Incubator?

http://www.moviesonline.ca/movie-gallery/albums/Alien_vs_Predator_2/predalien-3.jpg
? ;)

http://www.moviesonline.ca/movie-gallery/albums/Alien_vs_Predator_2/predalien-3.jpg
? ;)

Where'd you find that picture?! I've tried to keep it under wraps all this time..

It's not a matter of "women liking jerks"- it's a matter of the fact that these "jerks" tend to be more self-confident, tend to project a more approachable appearance and very rarely let rejection faze them. On the other hand, the "nice guys" tend to lack self-confidence, project a dour, unapproachable appearance and take rejection very hard.

Frankly, I'd take it even farther than that.

Remember your sources, people, because the "women like jerks and not nice guys" riff is coming from the "nice guys."

It's pretty natural for a guy who has been rejected to look at his competition and say, "Pfft, what a jerk." But obviously the girl didn't think he was a jerk. Obviously the girl wanted to date the "jerk" and did not want to date the "nice guy."

(Yes, I'm sure you all can cite some magical high school example of some girl who claimed to be totally into jerks, but you can just save it because I've been female a lot longer than you, I've talked to more females than you, and I've fucked more females than you.)

If you want to talk in generalities, women are fundamentally no different than men. Women weigh physical attractiveness, personal compatibility, and situational considerations when choosing whether or not to pursue a given relationship. For most women (like for most men) any one of the above can trump the others if it is found in sufficient quantities. If he's really, really, really hot, then maybe it's okay that he's dumb as a post. If he's brilliantly entertaining then maybe that bald spot doesn't mean much. If it's just not a good time for me to be dating anybody right now, then maybe it doesn't matter how charming or hot he is, because I'm not on the market. And so on and vice versa et cetera.


Given all that, you tell me which person a woman's more likely to date? The person who appears inviting and engaging to talk to and never worries about what to say or do or the person who looks like they're in a George A. Romero film, weakly engaging anyone (if at all) worried that any "misstep" could be "the end of it" only to subconsciously tell everyone else "don't come near me" in outwardly displaying their fears?

Again, take it a step further.

I would never, ever, date a guy who identified himself as a "nice guy." What do you want, Mr. Nice Guy, a fucking cookie? You're SUPPOSED to be nice. If being nice is so very hard for you, then it sounds like you're actually a jackass who's just playing nice to get pussy.

Being nice to girls is a good thing, but it's not magical because it's what you're bloody well supposed to do in the first place. If you have lousy social skills and poor personal hygiene, please don't fool yourself into thinking that all you have to do is hold a door open and the gals will overlook your glaring flaws.


Now, I (probably) don't know you personally so I won't try to suggest that you are one of the "nice guys" I talked about above nor will I try to even state what you are doing wrong, but I will say there's more to the success of the "jerks" than you may think.
Indeed.

If any "nice guy" is wondering why "jerks" get all the women, maybe they could try...I dunno...taking a look at what the "jerks" are doing? Instead of assuming that females are defective because they won't put out with "nice guys," maybe try assuming that women are rational beings who make choices based on their desires and needs, and therefore assume that there's something the "jerk" is providing which you are not. And instead of expecting females to simply give up trying to get what they want and fuck you because YOU want them to, maybe try considering that a relationship is about BOTH people satisfying each other. If you aren't prepared to do what it takes to make a partner happy, then clearly she's not the partner for you.

Frankly, I'd take it even farther than that........<snipped>


All of which has an astounding whiff of truth about it, but to take Bottles words into my own mouth(ohh-err!). Lets take it further.

On the TV last night I heard the line "Behind every great man, there is a woman rolling her eyes" (Jim Carrey -Bruce Almighty).

Which caused my wife first to snort, and then to laugh and finaly to mutter something along the lines of it being bloody true.

Well what could I do other than smirk and say, 'so I'm a great man huh?'

So 'Nice men' why not be little bit of a jerk, and a little bit nice, but most off all why not just talk to women and find out what they want from you.

All of which has an astounding whiff of truth about it, but to take Bottles words into my own mouth(ohh-err!). Lets take it further.

On the TV last night I heard the line "Behind every great man, there is a woman rolling her eyes" (Jim Carrey -Bruce Almighty).

Which caused my wife first to snort, and then to laugh and finaly to mutter something along the lines of it being bloody true.

I can't think of a non-offensive way to say this...

Your wife has a really lame sense of humor.

That line is a very old, very tired heterosexist gag. And when I use the term "gag" here, it is for a reason.


Well what could I do other than smirk and say, 'so I'm a great man huh?'

I guess you're married to her, and you probably can't divorce her for having a lousy sense of humor, but you could at least have a conversation about why she would say something so obviously rude and sexist. Particularly with her male partner sitting right next to her.

It might be that she was just in a lousy mood or something. I've said lame or nasty things while cranky, and I'm guessing I'm not the only one.


So 'Nice men' why not be little bit of a jerk, and a little bit nice, but most off all why not just talk to women and find out what they want from you.
I don't think anybody has to work very hard at being a jerk. We all have selfish impulses from time to time, and jerkishness normally just means indulging in these impulses without using the judgment we really know we should use. Jerkishness is mostly laziness, in other words.

I don't think anybody should feel proud of themselves for being a jerk. I do think that if you're going to be around people then you need to be prepared to cut folks some slack at times. Even the nicest person may be a jerk once in a while. Such is humanity.

I expect my partner to do his best to be nice to me and to avoid being a jerk to me. That's what I do in return. Sometimes we mess up, but that's where the talking part comes in (just as you suggest!).

For people seeking to get into a relationship, I'd say you should just make sure to be yourself, but that's because I'm totally okay with you dying alone and miserable if your natural self is a jerk. If you're a jerk then I want you to keep being a jerk so that everybody else will know not to date you. I don't want to give jerks any tips on how to make themselves passable enough to get into relationships, because I don't want anybody to have to put up with a jerk for a husband or wife. That would suck.

I have nothing to add to this other than to say:

Bottle, every time I see your signature I get that song stuck in my head.

I hate you (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/extras/stillalive.php).

Jesus Christ Bottle!

I guess she said it coz she knows what sorta sense of humor I have. I didn't find it sexist nor insulting, in fact it is quite true with me, I often witness her eyes rolling when I have said or done anything particularly foolish in public.

In short she and I where joking with each other.
Hey, if you like it then you're a good match for each other. I'm just impatient and totally humorless when it comes to recycled men-versus-women humor. :D

I can't think of a non-offensive way to say this...

Jesus Christ Bottle!

I guess she said it coz she knows what sorta sense of humor I have. I didn't find it sexist nor insulting, in fact it is quite true with me, I often witness her eyes rolling when I have said or done anything particularly foolish in public.

In short she and I where joking with each other.

Hey, if you like it then you're a good match for each other. I'm just impatient and totally humorless when it comes to recycled men-versus-women humor. :D

Heh we are indeed well matched. She puts up with my sillyness, and I umm err cook her dinner?

Heh we are indeed well matched. She puts up with my sillyness, and I umm err cook her dinner?
You know, when you put it that way it kind of sounds similar to my own relationship. If you invert the pronouns, and replace "silliness" with "bizarre fixation with octopus" and "cook her dinner" with "place orders for large pizzas."

The question is, how long must one wait for the "right circumstances" to end up availing themselves. I may only be 18, however, I do get worried that the older I get, the more likely that I will end up being the "creppy virgin" that will have absolutely no chance with the remaining ladies.
I'd say you're really too young to understand, but then I remembered that I'm only 17.

I myself don't really sweat it, though. I simply don't care enough about relationships at the moment; I have a lot more to deal with, such as six varieties of mental illness and an awful lot more work than I bargained for. I suppose if I ever feel the need to enter a relationship again (a state that will only be brought on by an appropriate condition of physical or intellectual attraction), I'll succeed in working up the motivation to pursue it. Otherwise, you could say I'm tuned out. On the market, but not actively.

Sadly, I am one of those "nice guys" you described. But that's all I know! Of course I take rejection very hard because I don't know how to deal with it, nor what I did wrong to get rejected.
You could.... ask?

I worry about what to say or do because I DON'T KNOW WHAT to say or do, and NO ONE WILL TELL ME! Every time I ask anyone about this sort of thing, they always tell me "it all depends", "you've got to 'play it by ear'" and unhelpful junk like that! I simply don't know how to hide my emotions, and if I'm feeling worried, afraid, or on edge, it automatically comes out.
I was a bit like that a few years ago. Then I gave up antidepressants and have been fine ever since. <.<

*shrug* I just wouldn't worry about it. I would say or do whatever I say or do normally (essentially, the old cliché: "Be yourself!"); if the other person likes me, they won't be attracted to a false image, and if they don't like me, it saves us both a lot of time and heartache. I just take rejection in stride; I reason that it wouldn't have worked out anyway and am merely amused by it within a few weeks.

-snip several posts-
Listen to Grave_n_idle. He is right.

Still hopelessly in love with someone who will never love me back.
In a few years, you'll look back on that with nostalgia and maybe a bit of humour. (One gets used to it after a while, and it goes away.)

couldn't it also have the opposite effect and make you give up because she's way out of your league?
Well, if you believe somebody is out of your league, they will be.

I myself have adopted the policy that I am the most attractive, intelligent, fluent, interesting, and funny person in the universe, and for anybody who does not wish to date me, it's their loss. Therefore, nobody is out of my league, there are only people I choose not to pursue. :P

I have to read this post and laugh. The thing is, in highschool I was HORRIBLE.

You know the nerd that everybody picks on, nobody likes, always has a crush on girls he can never get, and is generally subjected to a life of misery?

Yeah, that nerd used to beat me up.

I was hopeless. I had no social skills, couldn't dress myself in anything approaching fashionable, was a general walking disaster. I at least used to comfort myself knowing that I was smarter than they were and i'dprobably grow up to be better of, you know, ever nerd's fantasy, that 15 years later he looks back and he's handsom, rich, with the hot wife.

But then I went to college and was around people smarter than I was, and I was equally bad. And I just couldn't understand what the hell was wrong with me.

Eventually, one day I started to figure "they must understand something I don't, but I'm smart, I can figure this out". So, I watched. I observed people, how they interacted. I figured out how to be casual, be friendly but not overbearing, flirt with a girl well, and I figured out how to get laid.

And once I figured out THAT particular little tidbit, life became a great deal more interesting. And one day I found myself dating, beyond all reasonable comprehension, a rather brilliant, very attractive girl, who, despite my geekiness, helped me out a lot.

By the time I got to gradschool I was an entirely different person than when I started college. And now that 15 year point is coming up, and I have a job I like, a woman I adore, and kind of have to laugh.

You know, when you put it that way it kind of sounds similar to my own relationship. If you invert the pronouns, and replace "silliness" with "bizarre fixation with octopus" and "cook her dinner" with "place orders for large pizzas."

Most relationships are similar if you change words around.

e.g. "He puts up with my prostitution, and I pay his alimony." or "She puts up with my beatings, and I watch TV." or "I put up with his protests, and he defends our God-given property from the Commie Government."

You know, when you put it that way it kind of sounds similar to my own relationship. If you invert the pronouns, and replace "silliness" with "bizarre fixation with octopus" and "cook her dinner" with "place orders for large pizzas."

Heh each to their own I guess. She is though a lovely woman and a great source of strength for me, I dare say I would not be half the 'great man' I am without her.

Rolling eyes, well they do their job, and bring me out of my own head and back to reality.

<snip>

Thanks Bottle. :) I knew I needed the female perspective- there's only so much I can gleam on from my own perspective.

There is one thing I will comment on:

If he's really, really, really hot, then maybe it's okay that he's dumb as a post.

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't take a girl who's exceptionally hot yet exceptionally dumb because I like conversations and substance and "dumb" doesn't hold out much hope for any of that. You are right otherwise since I'd lower my standards if other things check out- I mean, we've all got to realize here that no one's *ever* going to be 100% perfect for us.

As one last thing (in this post) regarding the "nice guys"- I suggest you all take a look at this:

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts956550.aspx

I wanted to post it earlier, but I was on vacation and thus away from my computer. Since that links to another forum, you can find the original article on Google if you search for "Why 'Nice Guys' are often such LOSERS" (I don't think I can post the link because of the wording of the URL). It should be an eye-opener- it was for me, anyway.

Im only thirteen so not much on the romance front lol.

Ive gone out with two people but as you probably expect for like a week or two

Where'd you find that picture?! I've tried to keep it under wraps all this time..

I had to dig, but believe it or not, wiki was involved. :)