NationStates Jolt Archive

In the blogosphere (this one national review) (http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YzhhN2EwZmZiNjE5MTQzYTg5MGZjZjI5ODhiOTY5NTY=), Ron Paul had an exchange with "Fox and Friends" over Huckabee's Christmas ad, which featured a windopane suspiciously shot to look like a cross.


STEVE DOOCY: Mike Huckabee has started running an ad in Iowa, where you're at right now, also in New Hampshire and South Carolina, and in the back, it's a windowpane but it also looks a lot like a cross. And, and, we had a guest a little while ago who said it was inappropriate to be using religion for political purposes. Congressman, I'm just curious what you think?

RON PAUL: Well, I haven't thought about it completely, but you know, it reminds me of what Sinclair, uh, Lewis once said, he said 'when Fascism comes to this country, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross.' I don't know whether that's a fair assessment or not, but you wonder about using a cross like he is the only Christian, or implying that subtly. So, uh, I don't think I would ever use anything like that.

DOOCY: So, uh, Congressm— you know, uh, Governor Huckabee is not selling fascism. He's — simply sending out a Christmas message, anyway, just curious how you felt about that. Congressman, if you would sit right there in Des Moines just for a moment, we're going to take a quick time out...


A video is availalbe here, from "Hot Air" (http://hotair.com/archives/2007/12/18/ron-paul-on-hucks-christmas-ad-when-fascism-comes-itll-come-bearing-a-cross/)

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I'm curious what other Paul supporters/detractors think about this.

Members of the easily-offended Christian right took this to mean that Paul said "all Christians are Fascists." I tend to agree with some of the other comments which state that Huckabee's brand of "I'm a Christian damnit! Vote for me!" is akin to Hillary's "We need to do this for the children!"

Edit: video in question is here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xn7uSHtkuA)

Though I am not voting for Ron Paul, I do not believe he is truly bashing Christians. If you continue to read on, he states: "I don't know whether that's a fair assessment or not, but you wonder about using a cross like he is the only Christian, or implying that subtly. So, uh, I don't think I would ever use anything like that."

Also, I have not seen the ad in question. Is there a link to the ad somewhere?

proving once again that even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then

I find it extremely unlikely any successful politician would say anything that is both so accurate and so damned stupid to articulate.

He's not saying that all Christians are fascists, he's saying (quoting actually) that religion will be used to bring fascism and that we should be weary of people who use religion politically. Which is a fair enough statement regardless of your religious leaning. This doesn't make me like Paul anymore, it's more of that 'even a broken clock is right twice a day' kind of thing.

Though I am not voting for Ron Paul, I do not believe he is truly bashing Christians. If you continue to read on, he states: "I don't know whether that's a fair assessment or not, but you wonder about using a cross like he is the only Christian, or implying that subtly. So, uh, I don't think I would ever use anything like that."

Also, I have not seen the ad in question. Is there a link to the ad somewhere?

I don't have a link, but I've seen it, it's not a window at all, it's a white bookcase.

paul was reacting to huckabee's christmas political ad. he felt that huckabee was using his religion and this ad to set himself up as the most christian candidate. he overstated his case in the unscripted moment.

i found huckabee's ad to be OK although im not sure how i would take it if i were of another religion and he hadnt bothered to wish me a happy <whatever religious day might happen at some time during the campaign season>

Link is in the origional post to the video; Yes, it has many refrences to Jesus, but the point seems to be good 'ole Huck isn't about politics, he just wants to wish everyone a Merry Christmas, with the implication (allegedly) being that he is the only Christian canddiate (kinda reminds me of Al "Mormons aren't real Christians" Shartpon's comment).

As one blog comment put it "Given that Huckabee wraps his big government leanings with Christianist justifications, Paul’s quote is more on target than the typical Paulian faux pas."

Guiliani has the best Christmas ad anyway.

I'm the farthest thing from supporting Ron Paul but I would take a guess he's criticizing the far right not Christians in general.

It's a politician's response. Stay relatively noncommittal, but make sure you get at least one jab in at your opponent - especially if that opponent might be a front runner.

I'm the farthest thing from supporting Ron Paul but I would take a guess he's criticizing the far right not Christians in general.

LOL. Ron Paul *is* the "far-right".

Guiliani has the best Christmas ad anyway.

Is it a shot of 9/11 with a THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN caption followed by him and his wives in Christmas colors?

LOL. Ron Paul *is* the "far-right".

That would be your 'other' far-right :p

When I read the word 'blogosphere', I knew nothing good could follow after that. However, this seems to be a rather irrelevant conflict. Those Christians who thought that Ron Paul was referring to them as fascists are probably the homophobic pro-life people who also support the death penalty and have armed themselves for times to come. Mind you, I might be exaggerating things here.

RON PAUL: Well, I haven't thought about it completely...

That says all we need to say about Ron Paul. :)

Those Christians who thought that Ron Paul was referring to them as fascists are probably the homophobic pro-life people who also support the death penalty and have armed themselves for times to come.

With the exception of the death penalty thing, which is apparently a recent thing for him, that sounds an awful lot like Ron Paul.

Yeah Ron Paul will win. It's obvious.

What people forget is Huckabee imitated THIS ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZPCWGtIupE

Observe lack of crosses.

What people forget is Huckabee imitated THIS ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZPCWGtIupE

Observe lack of crosses.

So, Ron Paul's bookcases are more offset. So?

Ron Paul is just saying that Huckabee is just taking advantage of Christianity to push his lowest-common denominator populism.

I would expect this remark to get Paul in trouble, because it's a remark that's easy for his opponents to spin.

Politics has nothing at all to do with reason or truth. Paul doesn't seem to get that, yet.

Ron Paul is just saying that Huckabee is just taking advantage of Christianity to push his lowest-common denominator populism.

Huckabee said the bookshelf is just a bookshelf and shrugged off the controversy: "I will confess this: If you play the spot backwards it says, 'Paul is dead. Paul is dead.'"

Huckabee is funny, Ron Paul is not, Huckabee FTW! ;)

Politics has nothing at all to do with reason or truth. Paul doesn't seem to get that, yet.

He's got a spin machine of his own, so I think he *does* get it.

Maybe he's kind of like McCain and he just blurts things out without thinking every now and then?

Huckabee said the bookshelf is just a bookshelf and shrugged off the controversy: "I will confess this: If you play the spot backwards it says, 'Paul is dead. Paul is dead.'"

Huckabee is funny, Ron Paul is not, Huckabee FTW! ;)

Bull. The bookshelf is so obviously a focal point that you would have to be a fool not to notice it. Huckabee is so obviously insincere and calculating that there is no way that this would have just 'happened.'

Bull. The bookshelf is so obviously a focal point that you would have to be a fool not to notice it. Huckabee is so obviously insincere and calculating that there is no way that this would have just 'happened.'

Considering the apples on it and so forth, I really wouldn't have even thought of it as a cross if someone hadn't said something about it before I saw the video. I tended to focus more on the Christmas tree.

I wouldn't put it past any politician, but I really don't think they were trying to insert a cross reference there, especially since they cover it up.

Bull. The bookshelf is so obviously a focal point that you would have to be a fool not to notice it. Huckabee is so obviously insincere and calculating that there is no way that this would have just 'happened.'

You know what's funny about your conspiracy idea, it's that if he wnated to put a cross on a wall beside the Christmas tree it wouldn't have been any bigger a deal, He already said: Celebration and Birth of Christ staight up. It's not like it's a subliminal message he's going for there.

When I read the word 'blogosphere', I knew nothing good could follow after that. However, this seems to be a rather irrelevant conflict. Those Christians who thought that Ron Paul was referring to them as fascists are probably the homophobic pro-life people who also support the death penalty and have armed themselves for times to come. Mind you, I might be exaggerating things here.

I'm bisexual, pro-life, and used to moderate a survivalist forum, where do I fit in there?

Considering the apples on it and so forth, I really wouldn't have even thought of it as a cross if someone hadn't said something about it before I saw the video. I tended to focus more on the Christmas tree.

I wouldn't put it past any politician, but I really don't think they were trying to insert a cross reference there, especially since they cover it up.

I disagree. My eye went straight to the glowing bookshelf that was directly over his shoulder.

You know what's funny about your conspiracy idea, it's that if he wnated to put a cross on a wall beside the Christmas tree it wouldn't have been any bigger a deal, He already said: Celebration and Birth of Christ staight up. It's not like it's a subliminal message he's going for there.

It's not a 'conspiracy theory'- it's the modus operandi of ANY politician. Huckabee's forte is a cheap populist form of Christianity, and for him to let an opportunity to push it while remaining succinct is highly unlikely.

I still can't stand Ron Paul, but in this instance I somewhat agree with him.

We should be wary of those who use religion for political purposes, whether or not they believe their own bullshit, as Huckabee just might.

I disagree. My eye went straight to the glowing bookshelf that was directly over his shoulder.

Had you already heard the controversy before you saw it, though?

If anyone is wrapped in an American flag and carrying a cross, it is Ron Paul. Especially if you take American flag and Constitution as interchangeable.

Had you already heard the controversy before you saw it, though?

No, I hadn't.

Huckabee said the bookshelf is just a bookshelf and shrugged off the controversy: "I will confess this: If you play the spot backwards it says, 'Paul is dead. Paul is dead.'"

Huckabee is funny, Ron Paul is not, Huckabee FTW! ;)

that was the most funny, confident, dismissive and charming refutation of a political attack ive ever seen.

its a pity that i disagree with him on virtually every issue.

So Ron Paul is bashing Christians now, is he? Well, he might as well, everyone else is. On a side note, I'm not that pissed about all the Christian bashing now that I think of it, the "Church" has usually been far more effective at accomplishing it's goals when it's been persecuted and ridiculed. The idea kinda seems to go against common sense though. Just an observation, take it for what it's worth.

Huckabee said the bookshelf is just a bookshelf and shrugged off the controversy: "I will confess this: If you play the spot backwards it says, 'Paul is dead. Paul is dead.'"

Huckabee is funny, Ron Paul is not, Huckabee FTW! ;)wait.. what?
Huckleberry actually said that on live TV?


WUAHAHAHAHA

Huckleberry rocks. :D

Huckabee rocks. :D
Huckabee's writers rock.

But I agree, that's pretty funny for a politician.

Huckabee's writers rock.

But I agree, that's pretty funny for a politician.I am starting to like the Fellow...

Huckleberry rocked the other day at the CNN/YouTube live Debate too..
Good Writers can help most when you know in advance the questions they are going to ask, or for speeches.

Just more proof that Ron Paul is the man.

Just more proof that Ron Paul is the man.
If by 'the man' you mean 'taking advantage of ignorant saps,' then yes.

Good for him. Somebody needs to bash Christians; it's not like we don't bash other religions/athiests/christians who aren't exactly like us enough.

Ron Paul Bashes Christians?No, he did not Bash Christians :rolleyes:

he bashed Huckleberry for -hesays- using a Bookshelf as a Cross.
No sweat, thats what candidates do these days.. they bash each other.

Paul's got a point. Politicians shouldn't be using Religion as some sort of 'political tool'

Grrr!

How many times must it be said?


Church<------------------------------------------------------------------------->State


For a good reason!

So Ron Paul is bashing Christians now, is he? Well, he might as well, everyone else is. On a side note, I'm not that pissed about all the Christian bashing now that I think of it, the "Church" has usually been far more effective at accomplishing it's goals when it's been persecuted and ridiculed. The idea kinda seems to go against common sense though. Just an observation, take it for what it's worth.

If you'd actually read the quote in question, you'd see that he wasn't bashing Christians. He merely said that we should be wary of people using religion for political gain, because they might to try to sneak in something nasty under their robes.