NationStates Jolt Archive

South Korean voters focus on economy

The South Korean presidential election on Wednesday pits a pragmatic, pro-business candidate, Lee Myung-bak, against two contenders who have defined themselves by the key ideological issue of their generation — unification or not — with North Korea.

Lee, 65, has pledged to be the “economy president”. A former mayor of Seoul and long-time senior executive at the Hyundai conglomerate, Lee is running on the ticket of the conservative Grand National Party.

A poll published Dec. 11 by the South Korean daily JoongAng Ilbo gives Lee 46.3% of the vote.

His closest rivals, with little more than 15%, are Chung Dong-young of the United New Democratic Party and Lee Hoi-chang, who founded the Grand National Party in 1997 but was dropped as its candidate this time around. (The current president, Roh Moo-hyun, is forbidden to run by a constitutional one-term limit.)

Both candidates place relations with North Korea at the centre of their politics. Chung favoured dismantlement of the old guard in South Korea — the elite families and the established business conglomerates — and rapprochement with the North. Lee Hoi-chang, a Korean traditionalist, is deeply sceptical of North Korea's hard-line communist government and any efforts to engage it.

But this year’s election does not appear to be based on those issues. “The Korean presidential elections are no longer a choice between democracy and autocracy,” says Jim Schoff of the Institute for Foreign Policy Analysis, a Boston-based think tank.

A poll published by the newspaper Hankyoreh indicates that economic management is rated the most important issue, at 43.5%. Employment worries are most important for 17.3% of respondents, followed by social welfare and education. North Korea policy trails far back at 3.2%.

It appears not surprising then that Lee Myung-bak is so far ahead in the polls.

[...] In the months preceding the elections, however, his opponents have united in demanding a probe into a possible scandal: He was thought to have orchestrated stock-price manipulation whilst serving at an investment firm, BBK. The issue looked likely to blow over earlier this month when a star witness failed to provide sufficiently damning testimony to make the charges stick.

Then, on Dec. 16, Chung’s United New Democratic Party revealed a video clip in which Lee discusses his possible involvement with BBK. Chung’s cohorts have been calling for a relaunch of the investigation.

Still, there is little to suggest that this scandal is sufficient to eclipse a 30-point gap in the polls.


(link (http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/news/asia-pacific/20071218-euny-hong-south-korean-elections-lee-myung-bak.html))

I love the abbreviation for the Grand National Party!

GNP

GROSS
NATIONAL
PRODUCT

LOL

so the corporate oligarchy isn't even bothering anymore? :p

I love the abbreviation for the Grand National Party!

I was thinking more of Horse racing myself

I love the abbreviation for the Grand National Party!

GNP

GROSS
NATIONAL
PRODUCT

LOL

Yes.

Simple minds and what not..

I love the abbreviation for the Grand National Party!

GNP

GROSS
NATIONAL
PRODUCT

LOL

It would be very smart, if only South Koreans knew what GNP means in English. ;) Having been to Seoul, and having tried to communicate with my very limited grasp of Korean, I can say that a lot of South Koreans speak little or no English.

(Not all, though. I met a young South Korean lady who spoke excellent English.)

I can't say I know much about any of the candidates. There isn't much in the English speaking media, and my Korean is a little rusty.:p

I have to Lol when people badmouth the DPRK, all they need do is look to South Korea to see a virtual conservative dictatorship.

I reckon the family Lee are not to happy seeing a Hyundai exec get the job...but then it really is a big boys club...may as well call it the Republic of Samsung...

I have to Lol when people badmouth the DPRK, all they need do is look to South Korea to see a virtual conservative dictatorship.
Are you seriously suggesting that South Korea is less democratic than North Korea?

Are you seriously suggesting that South Korea is less democratic than North Korea?

Well Korean labour law allows for one (max) trade union in a company. Company makes one up. Problem solved.

You have no idea how conservative South Korea is...nice people and friendly and very proud of their country. But it is a very hierarchical society.

I reckon the family Lee are not to happy seeing a Hyundai exec get the job...but then it really is a big boys club...may as well call it the Republic of Samsung...

truly a broken country :cool:

Well Korean labour law allows for one (max) trade union in a company. Company makes one up. Problem solved.

You have no idea how conservative South Korea is...nice people and friendly and very proud of their country. But it is a very hierarchical society.
Exactly, not to mention to brutal despot Park Chung Hee.

truly a broken country :cool:

Would you believe that the company that owns all the other Samsung Group companies is a theme park called Everland? I kid you not!

Well Korean labour law allows for one (max) trade union in a company. Company makes one up. Problem solved.

You have no idea how conservative South Korea is...nice people and friendly and very proud of their country. But it is a very hierarchical society.
But that doesn't make it a dictatorship worse than the North.

But that doesn't make it a dictatorship worse than the North.
Yes, North Korea is a dictatorship, the dictatorship of the proletariat.

Exactly, not to mention to brutal despot Park Chung Hee.
Yep. In the same way that Germany is a dictatorship because of the brutal dictator Adolf Hitler, correct?

I hope Kim Jong Il gets entered and wins, just for the grins.

But that doesn't make it a dictatorship worse than the North.

Believe me...I am in no way saying that South Korea is worse than the North...at least the Southerners aren't starving.

However it is not exactly a bastion of progressive democracy either.

Exactly, not to mention to brutal despot Park Chung Hee.

Yeah he was a bastard all right.

Yep. In the same way that Germany is a dictatorship because of the brutal dictator Adolf Hitler, correct?

Not quite. Germany is now a thriving democracy.

Believe me...I am in no way saying that South Korea is worse than the North...at least the Southerners aren't starving.

However it is not exactly a bastion of progressive democracy either.
Undoubtedly.

That was my point.

And South Korea is not a thriving democracy.

I'm confused now...is this your position as well?

Not quite. Germany is now a thriving democracy.
That was my point.

You mean the German upper class right?

They're called managers ;)

Not quite. Germany is now a thriving democracy.
You mean the German upper class right?

There is laws on unions because the majority of koreans dislike it. It isn't a model for democracy but its not even close to North Korea or China. I know this cause I USED TO LIVE THERE AND VISIT FREQUENTLY and also born there

Also why is it not a democracy? We can vote like you guys, the elections aren't rigged, we have politicians dishing out their money to advertise, We can vote our legislature. We got a constitution also! Park is old news.


A nice little info from answer.com of an example of how power is spread out

The South Korean government's structure is determined by the Constitution of the Republic of Korea. This document has been revised several times since its first promulgation in 1948 (see History of South Korea). However, it has retained many broad characteristics; with the exception of the short-lived Second Republic of South Korea, the country has always had a presidential system with a relatively independent chief executive.

As with most stable three-branch systems, a careful system of checks and balances is in place. For instance, the judges of the Constitutional Court are partially appointed by the executive, and partially by the legislature. Likewise, when a resolution of impeachment is passed by the legislature, it is sent to the judiciary for a final decision.

There is laws on unions because the majority of koreans dislike it. It isn't a model for democracy but its not even close to North Korea or China. I know this cause I USED TO LIVE THERE AND VISIT FREQUENTLY and also born there
Oh yeah, lol, Koreans don't like having rights and entitlements at work, yeah I am sure:rolleyes:

We don't like having unions cause they mess up the economy. One real example. A huge steel company has a big strike against them, their production goes down, Hyundia and other carmakers lacks materials, they lays off worker to match their production and expense, people loses jobs, etc

Sorry for spelling mistakes

There is laws on unions because the majority of koreans dislike it. It isn't a model for democracy but its not even close to North Korea or China. I know this cause I USED TO LIVE THERE AND VISIT FREQUENTLY and also born there

So thats why there is never labour unrest in Korea?

The only benefit to the workers when the riot police, they got sympathy but they didn't get support note.

We don't like having unions cause they mess up the economy. One real example. A huge steel company has a big strike against them, their production goes down, Hyundia and other carmakers lacks materials, they lays off worker to match their production and expense, people loses jobs, etc

Sorry for spelling mistakes

And had the company treated its workers better there would most likely not have been a strike.

wouldn't you get pissed off when some guy with a paycheck bigger than yours go on strike which causes you to lose your job? Bam! No support.

We don't like having unions cause they mess up the economy. One real example. A huge steel company has a big strike against them, their production goes down, Hyundia and other carmakers lacks materials, they lays off worker to match their production and expense, people loses jobs, etc

Sorry for spelling mistakes

So, what you mean to say is that the upper class manager class don't like extra costs?

And had the company treated its workers better there would most likely not have been a strike.

Yes they have, they got lower hours and stuff.

wouldn't you get pissed off when some guy with a paycheck bigger than yours go on strike which causes you to lose your job? Bam! No support.

Never happened to me....and if it was that bad that people would strike I would most likely not work there.

So, what you mean to say is that the upper class manager class don't like extra costs?
Dude if you don't have enough iron, how can you make enough cars for profit? You either ways lose them both when the company collapses or when they lay up the workers.


I'm not even close to rich fyi

The right to strike and collective unionism is just merely a limitation on the hierarchical system of capitalist employment, such strikes and industrial action would not be needed if the workplace was run democratically by the worker's themselves, and not by the capitalist class. In short, production for consumption, not profit!

I'm not even close to rich fyi

Oh I hear you on that one!

Never happened to me....and if it was that bad that people would strike I would most likely not work there.

Yeah, Korea has longest working hours barely beating Japan.

The right to strike and collective unionism is just merely a limitation on the hierarchical system of capitalist employment, such strikes and industrial action would not be needed if the workplace was run democratically by the worker's themselves, and not by the capitalist class. In short, production for consumption, not profit!

Ok. Bollocks. Basically.

Do you think EA and Dragonicale might anhilliate upon physical contact..?

The right to strike and collective unionism is just merely a limitation on the hierarchical system of capitalist employment, such strikes and industrial action would not be needed if the workplace was run democratically by the worker's themselves, and not by the capitalist class. In short, production for consumption, not profit!

But then how can you "consume" those products when you run out of supplies to make them? Its still a democracy either ways or your saying Russia is a communist state (Their party just changed affliates)

Also they still vote for their leaders, so its still a democracy, it might influenced by capitalists but their is a extent on it.

Yeah, Korea has longest working hours barely beating Japan.

All I know is my working day is from when I wake up to when I go to bed. Even then I'm on company time.

By far, workers in South Korea have the longest work hours in the world. The average South Korean works 2,390 hours each year, according to the OECD. This is over 400 hours longer than the next longest-working country and 34% more hours than the average in the United States. A typical workweek in South Korea is 44 hours or longer. Most people start their day at 8am and end at around 7pm or later, often having dinner before returning to work. Until legislation in 2004 that virtually abolished the six-day workweek in large corporations known as "jaebol", South Korea was the only country in the OECD that worked Saturdays.

It was abolished recently, but then we do go to school on saturday also still. We try to be overacheivers :P

All I know is my working day is from when I wake up to when I go to bed. Even then I'm on company time.

Well yeah, Netherlands has atrocious (or may I say non-existent) industrial rights.

Almost the Shortest Working Hours among "Developed" nations isn't it?

Well yeah, Netherlands has atrocious (or may I say non-existent) industrial rights.
Not really, it's got the same ones as every other EU state.

But then how can you "consume" those products when you run out of supplies to make them? Its still a democracy either ways or your saying Russia is a communist state (Their party just changed affliates)

Also they still vote for their leaders, so its still a democracy, it might influenced by capitalists but their is a extent on it.

No you are mistaking what I am saying, the capitalist system of labor in innately undemocratic, it's goal is profit so naturally it will do anything to increase production beyond need and into excess, thus creating a 'race to the bottom' in terms of worker rights, entitlements and wages. In a democratic workplace the aid of all for the satisfaction of the needs of each is the only rule of production and consumption which corresponds to the principle of solidarity.

No you are mistaking what I am saying, the capitalist system of labor in innately undemocratic, it's goal is profit so naturally it will do anything to increase production beyond need and into excess, thus creating a 'race to the bottom' in terms of worker rights, entitlements and wages. In a democratic workplace the aid of all for the satisfaction of the needs of each is the only rule of production and consumption which corresponds to the principle of solidarity.

Thats true, we go for the profit, thats why some of us work like 24/7, to get money.

By far, workers in South Korea have the longest work hours in the world. The average South Korean works 2,390 hours each year, according to the OECD. This is over 400 hours longer than the next longest-working country and 34% more hours than the average in the United States. A typical workweek in South Korea is 44 hours or longer. Most people start their day at 8am and end at around 7pm or later, often having dinner before returning to work. Until legislation in 2004 that virtually abolished the six-day workweek in large corporations known as "jaebol", South Korea was the only country in the OECD that worked Saturdays.

It was abolished recently, but then we do go to school on saturday also still. We try to be overacheivers :P

Yeah. I have utmost respect for many of the Koreans I worked for. If only they could get over the fact that their Korean managers were also human beings and to get over all this subservience crap...its something from the dark ages...feudal almost.

Well yeah, Netherlands has atrocious (or may I say non-existent) industrial rights.

Oh...this is completely ok with me. I admit the remuneration is worthwhile. And I get to travel ;)

Almost the Shortest Working Hours among "Developed" nations isn't it?

Nope...40...unlike the French 35...(is that still happening?)

Not really, it's got the same ones as every other EU state.

Hours yes...employment laws no. If I need to fire someone I need to go to court.

No you are mistaking what I am saying, the capitalist system of labor in innately undemocratic, it's goal is profit so naturally it will do anything to increase production beyond need and into excess, thus creating a 'race to the bottom' in terms of worker rights, entitlements and wages. In a democratic workplace the aid of all for the satisfaction of the needs of each is the only rule of production and consumption which corresponds to the principle of solidarity.

Ok. Whats the downside?

Ron Paul 2007!
:D

Ok. Whats the downside?
Nothing, in socialism full employment is realized for everyone who wants to work. When production is geared towards need and not profit the labor market is not as tight and has no need to drive production harder as they do under capitalism.

When I was in Seoul, I saw a protest gathering. I've no idea what they were protesting against, but they seemed to be feeling quite strongly about it. They had signs and a loud-speaker.

The protest involved about 12 people, standing still at the corner of two streets, one of them talking in his loudspeaker. But the really surprising thing (for a Westerner) was that these 12 protesters were surrounded on two sides (a third side being a wall) by 15 riot police officers with truncheons and shields, who were standing right up against them. Also standing quite still.

That's not exactly how we do our protest gatherings in France. :p

No offence meant to South Koreans. They're very friendly people. But I wouldn't want to live there. The right to strike is a very important one, which we particularly cherish in France.

Nope...40...unlike the French 35...(is that still happening?)


It's being eroded.

People who are self-employed obviously tend to work a lot more anyway.

And almost as soon as the law was implemented, the press began to report on the way employers had come up with to get round it. They'd simply say to employees: "You have a legal right to work only 35 hours a week if you want to. However, if you do that, we're not going to make enough of a profit. So here's the deal: You sign this piece of paper saying that you're willing and eager to work longer hours. If you don't, we'll shut down, fire you all and move somewhere else."

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5981/tbdvw3.jpg


South Koreans on Wednesday elected as president Lee Myung-bak, a right-wing former CEO vowing to improve the economy and stand up to North Korea, TV exit polls showed.

Official results will be released over the next few hours.

Lee won 50.3 percent of the vote, well ahead of his closest rival liberal candidate Chung Dong-young who had 26.0 percent, according the exit poll and projections by state-owned KBS TV and private MBC TV.

It would be the largest margin of victory since democratic elections began 20 years ago in South Korea, the world's 13th largest economy.

[...] But fresh allegations of financial corruption that surfaced days before polling day have threatened to undermine his authority and he faces the prospect of being the
first-president elect under criminal investigation.

On Monday, parliament voted to appoint a special investigator to look into charges that Lee, who denies any wrongdoing, was linked to an investment firm suspected of
swindling millions of dollars from investors.

Even if he is implicated, the outcome of the probe is unlikely to be resolved before the inauguration on Feb. 25. A sitting president cannot be prosecuted for such crimes.

[...] Economists want Lee to put in painful reforms to help South Korea transform from a manufacturing and export-based economy and better develop the finance and other services sectors.


(link (http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/news/world/20071219-South-Korea-election-president-Lee-Myung-Bak.html))

Hasn't South Korea had more than enough "painful reforms" already?

Ron Paul 2007!
:D
...

It's being eroded.

People who are self-employed obviously tend to work a lot more anyway.

And almost as soon as the law was implemented, the press began to report on the way employers had come up with to get round it. They'd simply say to employees: "You have a legal right to work only 35 hours a week if you want to. However, if you do that, we're not going to make enough of a profit. So here's the deal: You sign this piece of paper saying that you're willing and eager to work longer hours. If you don't, we'll shut down, fire you all and move somewhere else."

Yeah...the opt out...in the UK its 40 hours but thing is there are some jobs, like mine, where set hours of work don't really work. I need to be in the office for 8 hours a day but my working day starts at 07:00 where I can get a call about a client issue that happened overnight to past midnight if its needed. Then again we could be talking, in some cases, clients losing in the millions of pounds a day region. So yeah....I probably average about 80 hours a week.

Conservative candidate Lee Myung-bak has won a landslide victory in South Korea's presidential election, despite being hampered by corruption claims.
The National Election Commission said Mr Lee had 48.6% of the vote after 98% were counted. Chung Dong-young, of the ruling liberals, was second with 26.2%.

Mr Lee's victory hands back power to his Grand National Party (GNP) for the first time in a decade.

But he still faces allegations over an alleged fraud in 2001, which he denies.


(link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7150806.stm))