NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been watching Star Trek:Enterprise on SciFi. I watched it when it first came out but it quickly lost my interest, but these episodes that came later in the series that I had never seen before are actually pretty good. I'm not saying this is my fav or anything, but it definitely renewed my opinion of Trek in general.

(Or maybe I'm just still in Battlestar Galactica withdrawal.)

Mainly, because Voyager hurt me... Great premise, bad writing. I knew that show was foundering when they introduced Seven. I mean, it was like the producers were blatantly saying "We can't come up with a storyline compelling enough to keep your interest, so here's a large-breasted blonde in a skin tight suit for eye candy so you won't notice."

TNG was great, even if the technobabble got way old all to frequently.

DS9 had its moments. I probably missed the best of it.

The original series rocked for its time, and I'm loving the remastered episodes.

DS9 on top for me, then TNG. Voyager was abysmal bad writing, bad stories, inconstancy, and more usage of the Reset Button than Groundhog Day.

For me... TOS, it was exploration. They found new life forms and made friends as well as enemies. they were alone out there, sure they could contact the Federation, but responses took time.

TNG: Too much Imperialism. too much "you have to do it our way" style preaching. Too many episodes where they would tell others "we cannot interferre" until one of their crewmen breaks a planet's law then it's "we will interferre with your laws and procedures to protect our own."

DS9: No exploration. Loved the politics, but Star TREK is about exploration.

Voy: great premise. but agreed on the lousy writing. had many opportunities for many ST firsts... but never taken. too much useage of The Borg.

Ent: an attempt to re-write the Star Trek genre to correct scientific mistakes. WTF... 3 days from Earth to the Klingon Home World at warp 3?

yeah, TOS was the best.

also because TOS was about Kirk, McCoy and Spock. everyone else was supporting characters. all the other series tried to make everyone equal star status thus I ended up not connecting with any of them.

The Original Series was the only good one.

TNG: Too much Imperialism. too much "you have to do it our way" style preaching. Too many episodes where they would tell others "we cannot interferre" until one of their crewmen breaks a planet's law then it's "we will interferre with your laws and procedures to protect our own."


Yanno, I agree completely. One other issue I had with all of the TNG era shows was that the human characters were all spiritually barren. It's as if spirituality was only permitted if you were an alien and the humans sort of humored you.

Think about it. From TNG and DS9 we know all about Bajoran and Klingon religion. Now tell me this: What religion was Jean-Luc Picard? Was he Atheist? Dunno. TOS implied the religious beliefs of a couple characters but didn't do detail.

It's one of the things I liked about Babylon 5. Everybody's character had elements of religion-or not-incoprorated into who they were as a person, which made it more realistic. Sheridan was Baptist. Ivanova was Jewish. Garibaldi was an Atheist. It was possible for them to trust and work closely together because they lived in a time where religion didn't have to be divisive.

Star Trek just sorta sterilizes it, using religion only as it builds alien culture, in which case it sort of takes over. Ever met an Atheist Bajoran? What about a Klingon who didn't follow Khaless?

Star Trek just sorta sterilizes it, using religion only as it builds alien culture, in which case it sort of takes over. Ever met an Atheist Bajoran? What about a Klingon who didn't follow Khaless?

I think that is one of Star Trek's worst problems - lack of diversity within alien species.

For me it's DS9 VERY closely followed by the original series.
The others... well... I can take it or leave it.

Yanno, I agree completely. One other issue I had with all of the TNG era shows was that the human characters were all spiritually barren. It's as if spirituality was only permitted if you were an alien and the humans sort of humored you.

Think about it. From TNG and DS9 we know all about Bajoran and Klingon religion. Now tell me this: What religion was Jean-Luc Picard? Was he Atheist? Dunno. TOS implied the religious beliefs of a couple characters but didn't do detail.

It's one of the things I liked about Babylon 5. Everybody's character had elements of religion-or not-incoprorated into who they were as a person, which made it more realistic. Sheridan was Baptist. Ivanova was Jewish. Garibaldi was an Atheist. It was possible for them to trust and work closely together because they lived in a time where religion didn't have to be divisive.

Star Trek just sorta sterilizes it, using religion only as it builds alien culture, in which case it sort of takes over. Ever met an Atheist Bajoran? What about a Klingon who didn't follow Khaless?

I'm pretty sure that no religion was one of Roddenberry's rules, along with no inter-personal conflict between the crew. BORING! DS9 was good because it threw out the rules.

I think that is one of Star Trek's worst problems - lack of diversity within alien species.

and sometimes it's too much. Vulcans are supposed to be green blooded humanoids. so wouldn't a 'dark skinned' vulcan like Tuvok be dark green (or more green) than a typical human?

I'm pretty sure that no religion was one of Roddenberry's rules, along with no inter-personal conflict between the crew. BORING! DS9 was good because it threw out the rules.

well, Roddenberry's vision didn't include any hostile races like the Klingons. they were added on at the station's insistance.

I liked the doc on voyager and the talor cardasian on ds9 that was about it for me.

and sometimes it's too much. Vulcans are supposed to be green blooded humanoids. so wouldn't a 'dark skinned' vulcan like Tuvok be dark green (or more green) than a typical human?

And conversely:
The Remans were Romulan colonists. But for some reason, instead of looking like Romulans... they were telepathic Orcs...

DS9, by far

and sometimes it's too much. Vulcans are supposed to be green blooded humanoids. so wouldn't a 'dark skinned' vulcan like Tuvok be dark green (or more green) than a typical human?

I dunno. Higher levels of melanin make blood less visible, so perhaps he'd need less make-up that a light-skinned vulcan.

and sometimes it's too much. Vulcans are supposed to be green blooded humanoids. so wouldn't a 'dark skinned' vulcan like Tuvok be dark green (or more green) than a typical human?

I don't think he'd necessarily have more green unless he was LOW on melanin, as opposed to having more of it.

I'm pretty sure that no religion was one of Roddenberry's rules, along with no inter-personal conflict between the crew. BORING! DS9 was good because it threw out the rules.

I agree, although TOS did occasionally make references to Biblical and/or Christian themes, although it was never made clear what, exactly, individual crewmwmbers believed.

I'm one of the only people who like Voyager and Enterprise more than TNG. Yes I agree that Voyager (the ship) would not have stood a chance in hell against much of what it came across, I still loved Voyager (the show) since I enjoy the "pew-pew" firefights. Not to mention the Borg. I love the Borg. Therefore I love Voyager. I liked Enterprise for the reason of firefights as well, it was a step back to the "old times" that I never knew about, since I can not stand watching a single episode of TOS (so sue me) although with plot holes even I could somewhat notice.

i liked VOY largely for the characters and the different plots, and the morals/ethics. plus the premise of getting home was really engaging and endearing to me

TNG my second favourite again due to the characters, and that each show was largely some kind of morality play

DS9 was my least favourite, largely because i couldn't really get under the skin of the characters, and the fact that they were stuck on the station grated with me. that and all the weird religious bajoran stuff was... meh. still liked it though, just not as much as the others.


Enterprise doesn't count as Trek in my mind ;)

Hmmm. DS9 was pretty good, and it had enough of TNG in it to make it better than for that dreck, Enterprise.

Voyager - I dunno, there were lots of good episodes, and lots of shitty ones. Robert Picardo tended to steal every scene he was in.

I guess I'd have to say TNG.

TOS I could never really get into. Maybe when I'm super stoned.

It's one of the things I liked about Babylon 5. Everybody's character had elements of religion-or not-incoprorated into who they were as a person, which made it more realistic.

not more realistic from my point of view. round here being religious puts you in the small minority.

including religion in DS9 made it uncomfortable and strange to me, especially after being a fan of the non-religious TNG.


of course, VOY did a compromise with some being religious (like Chakotay) and most not. and TNG has Worf as their religious one.

of course, VOY did a compromise with some being religious (like Chakotay) and most not

Speaking of which, did Chakotay ever do anything that was actually interesting? He had his gimmicks like being a Native American and coming from the Maquis, but never really grabbed my attention.

Speaking of which, did Chakotay ever do anything that was actually interesting? He had his gimmicks like being a Native American and coming from the Maquis, but never really grabbed my attention.

Q mocked him once, that was the high point.

Q mocked him once, that was the high point.

Q in general was always a high point.

DS9, best plot and character development

Garak, Weyoun, and Dukat were the most interesting recurring characters in Trek history.

DS9, best plot and character development

Garak, Weyoun, and Dukat were the most interesting recurring characters in Trek history.

You forgot Q.

Speaking of which, did Chakotay ever do anything that was actually interesting? He had his gimmicks like being a Native American and coming from the Maquis, but never really grabbed my attention.

not really. he was certainly a bad character.

i still liked him, but as characters go he was quite 2 dimensional

I'd nave to go with the original series, mainly because it had something all the others lacked-plot resolution. The Next Generation was pretty much a cookie cutter collection-the only difference in the characters was race-they all thought alike, behaved alike, and acted alike. DS9 showed promise, but bogged itself down in silliness. The big Kardassian commander could have been one of the great space villains before he became a mad demon worshiping looney, and the Dominion would have been great villains except for "We can't beat them, so let's deus ex machina their destruction." Voyager was so godawful I only got through the pilot by reminding myself Chakotay had been in "Eating Raoul" and could do something, given time.
I rather liked Enterprise, but it suffered from many, many flaws. However, the Andorran commander was always a pleasure, and the idea of amoral, perfectly logical Vulcans always gave me a chuckle.

Uncaring Vulcans was fun in Enterprise, but then I liked them all really, least of all Enterprise though. I'm all for "boldly going", but I do like technology and suchlike. TOS is blatantly Sixties - good stories and all, but the later series are so much more immersive.

You forgot Q.

I'm sorry, but Garak could hatch a plot so great that it would cause Q to destroy himself.

TNG first. The early seasons were a little wonky as it tired to figure out what it meant to be in the 24th Century as opposed to the 23rd, but I felt that the world of Star Trek was better developed as opposed to TOS were there was the Enterprise and... not much else actually. Once you got to Best of Both Worlds though, TNG had its legs and was running.

TOS next with DS9 close behind. Just about everyone has covered the both of those in detail so...

Voyager... Well, Voyager was Melrose Place in Space. I just couldn't handle it most of the time. I felt as if they were trying to take the personal conflicts from DS9 and mesh it in with TNG and TOS Boldly Going... and it didn't work.

Enterprise just made me sick with how many times they decided to screw with the continuity.

I mainly like Star Trek Voyager because of the Characters (personally, I would have prefered if Seven kept her original uniform instead of going over to that wierd...jumpsuit thing)

Plus, it's the only regular Star Trek Series that comes on a bloc where I'm from (I see Enterprise and Original played sometimes, but I hate both)

I've been itching to watch Deep Space Nine

I actually liked them all but I think that TNG was probably the best.

I think they were all decent, except Enterprise. They might as well have had the Bush administration play the crew (Cheney would be T'Pol.)

I think that is one of Star Trek's worst problems - lack of diversity within alien species.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/monoculture.htm

Worth a read.

I enjoyed Voyager, if only for the Doctor, and it was refreshing to see a women as a captain.

I liked the TOS, but now I find the whole thing far too cheesy for my tastes.

I have mixed feeling about TNG and DS9; I liked parts of TNG, but at the same time I felt it was far too much 'go here, do that', and compared to the TOS, it wasn't nearly as fun. DS9 was, I suppose, alright, but not my brand of Star trek. Often it seemed to be needlessly diving into the supposed underbelly of society, which, while that's all good and all, never really seemed to fit the ideals of star trek.

Enterprise makes me cry. It is just so badly done it's not even funny. I mean, what the hell, Naked Vulcan women getting it on in the shower? In many ways I feel that Enterprise was too much of an attempt to reach out of bounds of Star Trek and attempt to draw in more americans, which, frankly, was a 'bad' idea. Gene's vision for Star trek, in many ways, at least in the TOS, rode a knife's edge on the social waves at the time, and Americanizing the show is rather counter productive. Vulcans are not meant to be sluts, or act like total 'tards. Even look at the lighting on the sets; dark as night, as if they have never heard of light bulbs in any shape or form.

I'm sorry, but I'm really, really sick of the whole nitty gritty space crap that Hollywood has been turning out lately; Battlestar Galatica, for example, I mean, what the hell where they thinking? I can't even watch the show; far too much poorly lit ships and jerky camera angles.

Over all, I'd say that TNG is the best; I don't like it as much as Voyager, (or rather, the concept behind it, many episodes where badddddddddd) and Q is probably my least favor character. It gains points as the last project Gene directly worked on, and that counts, at least in my books.

Has anyone played that new Star Trek game for the 360? It's pretty good.

It was a very close call for me between the Original Series and the Next Generation. I was in high school when the Next Generation came out, and really looked forward to each week's episode.

I do not have cable, so I've not seen any of the remastered episodes ... will they be released on DVD?

BTW: I'm also a huge fan of B5, BSG, Millennium (more horror), and Stargate: Atlantis. I also finished Earth 2, and really thought that show had great potential.

Has anyone played that new Star Trek game for the 360? It's pretty good.

That game is horribly crappy. Seriously overhyped PLUS they couldn't convert it to the PC worth a damn.

It was a very close call for me between the Original Series and the Next Generation. I was in high school when the Next Generation came out, and really looked forward to each week's episode.

I do not have cable, so I've not seen any of the remastered episodes ... will they be released on DVD?

BTW: I'm also a huge fan of B5, BSG, Millennium (more horror), and Stargate: Atlantis. I also finished Earth 2, and really thought that show had great potential.

Yeah, B5 is great. Millennium too - that episode with Love Is Blue in it? OooOooooh. Creepy.

Never seen BSG or Stargate or Earth 2 though.

Lotta TV I've never watched. Mainly cuz I really don't watch TV.

DS9 was all about the characters... so I loved it.

TNG was like the X-Files.. a really good episode so frequently followed by a really bad episode.

TOS was fun.

Voyager was arse. And not good arse. All that good work put into making the Borg this untouchable evil.. and Voyager spank a Borg cube about every third week. Plus - while I LOVE the doctor, the problem was that Voyager had an unpleasant habit of deus ex-ing every other episode... the EMH, or 7, or Kes...

Enterprise held no appeal for me.

And that's about my order of preference. But I'd trade all of them for another series of Firefly.

Star Trek is more like my father's generation, it's pretty out.

What kicks ass now is Futurama hahaha.

5. Enterprise

Never watched a single episode. I wanted something set after TNG/DS9/VOY...preferably a couple centuries later...not an inept "prequel" that destroys continuity.

4. The Original Series

There are several stand out episodes, but I really have to be in the mood to sit through one. Before my time, really...although I do enjoy the movies.

3. Voyager

Only caught a few episodes per season, but what I saw I didn't really care fore too much. I hear the Borg were made into villains-of-the-week by the later seasons...a travesty. Some of the actors help this series (The Doctor and Torres particularly), but others just irritate me (Janeway, Kim)

2. The Next Generation

My initial introduction to Trek still stands up well. Stewart and Spiner created amazing characters on this show. Most episodes are solid, with few clunkers. The only drawback was that there really was a lack of that sense of the crew being a group that one got with TOS or DS9. Too many episodes featured just one character...not enough ensemble episodes to get the actors to create a sense of comradeship.

1. Deep Space Nine

If only we could get three more seasons...even two. So much political intrigue. More character development than the other four shows combined. A willingness to bend and even break rules in the name of telling a good story. A more diverse cast of characters. What started out as another episodic format series quickly evolved into a continuing and thoroughly engaging story line (especially the last 2.5 seasons). Only a few bad Ferengi themed episodes mar this series.

Some of Treks most memorable characters, both regular and recurring. Odo, Kira, Quark, Garak, Dukat...and not a Starfleet officer on that short list BTW!

Go back and watch some episodes again...they stand up amazingly well. The interplay between the Bajorans and the Cardassians speaks volumes today about terrorism and the response to it, even though the series wrapped up over two years before 9/11.

It's the only series which I plan to buy DVDs for...it's just that good. A solid step ahead of TNG, and leaps and bounds ahead of the rest.

Roddenberry had a vision, but DS9 proved that straying from that vision actually results in more entertaining and thought provoking television.

TNG, watching series 1 at the moment on bravo, its a brilliant cheese nostalgia fest. Apart from the late 80s-ness of it, there is also the fact that its incredibly deeply uberly cheesy.

Liked DS9, didn't like Voyager, didn't like TOS much (I probably should've watched it first), only ever watched a couple of TNG episodes but the ones I saw were good. Never watched Enterprise, but not all too interested in prequels. I'd definitely have preferred a sequel, especially set far in the future when the Federation is falling apart and a new set of space powers is set to rise (or alternately plunge space into anarchy), but that wouldn't be Star Trek anymore.

not more realistic from my point of view. round here being religious puts you in the small minority.

including religion in DS9 made it uncomfortable and strange to me, especially after being a fan of the non-religious TNG.


But see, that's the thing. It's not about having religious characters, per se. It's about having characters who have at least THOUGHT about their own sense of spirituality. Think about it.

If you compare the characters of Jean-Luc Picard(ST:TNG) with Commander Sinclair(B5) and William Adama(BSG) you get some interesting results:

Picard seems to be very willing to respect others' beliefs but he seems to hold to no beliefs of his own. I can't think of a single episode in which he ever even mentioned God or a lack therof. Nothing. He's a well developed character as Star Trek characters go, but his only real depth of character came from his family conflict with this brother and with his own past as a Starfleet Cadet.

Jeff Sinclair had studied with the Jesuitsand was presumably Catholic, although that was never explicitly stated. In a very early season 1 episode when each race demo'ed their homeworld's dominant religion, Sinclair arranged to have representatives from ALL of Earth's religions to be present (A moving moment, btw.. and it's noteworthy that the series writer is an atheist) But Sinclair was no religious zealot nor did he ever put his beliefs above others'. When Ivanova's dad died, he encouraged her to sit Shiva and attended when she did. He used his insights from his own personal experiences to approach problems creatively. Of course, the other major component of his character was the events of the Battle of the Line.

William Adama is defined by his own family conflicts but significantly, his own atheism. In the beginning of the series he didn't even believe in the existence of Earth and only used it as a morale booster. Later, he came to believe in Earth but not in the Lords of Kobol even though he has a borderline romance with the acknowledged spiritual leader of the movement. His atheism is an excellent source of plot conflict in that he has to go along with the spiritual elements of the quest for Earth while not accepting the religiuos basis for them. He treads a fine line and it makes William Adama one of the most fascinating characters of the BSG universe.

All of the best Sci Fi has some sort of spiritual (not necessarily religious) content in it. B5, BSG, Dune all introduce ideas of what the soul is, what religion is, what is deeper in the universe beyond just empty space and aliens. Star Trek seldom delves into this but in the rare times they do, it's al ways through some kind of alien culture and never through humanity.


I do not have cable, so I've not seen any of the remastered episodes ... will they be released on DVD?


Yepper!

I'm a fan of all the ST series, but if I had to make a favorites list, well...

#1 Voyager
#2 DS9
#3 Enterprise/TNG
#4 TNG/Enterprise
#5 Original Series

Overall, DS9 is probably the better series, but it is close though. Plus, you have to love the last few seasons, with the war and all. Finally the large scale space fleet battles that you know you at least secretly wanted. ;) And who couldn't love seeing the super alliance of the three big powers.

The original Star Trek is my favorite. The Next Generation had some good episodes, but there was way too much Star-Trek nitpickery about the people, the "history" and the bogus technology.

I haven't watched the other series, except the occasional DS9 episode. I did enjoyed the fact that the "first" female captain got the ship lost, and refer to "Star Trek Voyager" as "Star Trek Woman Driver."

I did enjoyed the fact that the "first" female captain got the ship lost, and refer to "Star Trek Voyager" as "Star Trek Woman Driver."

Fun bit of trivia, both times Deanna Troi took the helm of the Enterprise she crashed into something. First Veridian IV in Generations, then the Scimitar in Nemesis. Both times pretty well totalling the ship.

Awesome! Did Janeway at least stop and ask for directions?

Awesome! Did Janeway at least stop and ask for directions?

Clearly not as she took the most circuitous route (http://www.stdimension.org/int/Cartography/Voyager.htm) humanly possible.

Fun bit of trivia, both times Deanna Troi took the helm of the Enterprise she crashed into something. First Veridian IV in Generations, then the Scimitar in Nemesis. Both times pretty well totalling the ship. technically speaking, she was shot out of the sky by the FEMALE Klingons over Veridian IV.

and Dr. Crusher didn't crash into anything when she had the helm in TNG series. ;)

technically speaking, she was shot out of the sky by the FEMALE Klingons over Veridian IV.

and Dr. Crusher didn't crash into anything when she had the helm in TNG series. ;)

Planets are large, pretty easy to miss. My question is why didn't they eject the core? Or remotely pilot the engineering section away with it's impulse engines too.

But see, that's the thing. It's not about having religious characters, per se. It's about having characters who have at least THOUGHT about their own sense of spirituality. Think about it.

If you compare the characters of Jean-Luc Picard(ST:TNG) with Commander Sinclair(B5) and William Adama(BSG) you get some interesting results:

Picard seems to be very willing to respect others' beliefs but he seems to hold to no beliefs of his own. I can't think of a single episode in which he ever even mentioned God or a lack therof. Nothing. He's a well developed character as Star Trek characters go, but his only real depth of character came from his family conflict with this brother and with his own past as a Starfleet Cadet.

Who Watches the Watchers.

The Inner Light(I think.)

Tapestry.

Watch and learn.

Planets are large, pretty easy to miss. My question is why didn't they eject the core? Or remotely pilot the engineering section away with it's impulse engines too.

Because Braga had his hands on the story and Moore was a complete idiot at the time. The movie was crappy.

Besides, Deanna wasn't piloting the saucer anyway. Watch the movie more carefully. Who talks about using the lateral thrusters to level their descent? That's the real pilot.

Planets are large, pretty easy to miss. My question is why didn't they eject the core? Or remotely pilot the engineering section away with it's impulse engines too.

If I remember the movie... they took several MAJOR hits to engineering (due to the sister's ability to bypass the sheilds). Core breach was imminant. so evacuation of civilians and all personnel to the sauser section was ordered. the Anti-matter/Matter explosion of the engineering section was close enough to the detached sauser section to push it into the planet's atmosphere where the impulse engines couldn't save them.

as for why they didn't dump the core? dunno, perhaps they were more concerned with saving the civilians on their ship, or the mechanism for dumping the core may have been damaged.

Because Braga had his hands on the story and Moore was a complete idiot at the time. The movie was crappy.

Besides, Deanna wasn't piloting the saucer anyway. Watch the movie more carefully. Who talks about using the lateral thrusters to level their descent? That's the real pilot.

What we put Deanna in the big chair and let her think she's driving? That makes Data sound like a driver's ed teacher.

What we put Deanna in the big chair and let her think she's driving? That makes Data sound like a driver's ed teacher.

the "big Chair' isn't the pilot, but Command. the person who 'drives' the ship is the one at the Helm. ;)

or the one at the "manual steering column" :D

Future tech boils down to a Thrustmaster Joystick! :D:D

If I remember the movie... they took several MAJOR hits to engineering (due to the sister's ability to bypass the sheilds). Core breach was imminant. so evacuation of civilians and all personnel to the sauser section was ordered. the Anti-matter/Matter explosion of the engineering section was close enough to the detached sauser section to push it into the planet's atmosphere where the impulse engines couldn't save them.

as for why they didn't dump the core? dunno, perhaps they were more concerned with saving the civilians on their ship, or the mechanism for dumping the core may have been damaged.

There's a video game version of the movie that makes explicit that the ejection mechanism is damaged. The movie version however it was probably just an oversight.

I was glad to see the ship blow up though, badly designed.

DS9 is the best, followed by TOS and TNG. I didn't hate Voyager and Enterprise, and I liked the Doctor and Neelix, but the stories weren't as compelling for me as in the others. As for (poor) Enterprise, some of the stories were actually very good, particularly the one about the mirror universe, but they were surrounded by poor performances from people who's character's name I can't even remember.

In all, only DS9 and TOS really compete against the best of other sci-fi genres such as B5 and BSG, and even then you have to remember the strengths of the show (by-themselves storytelling) when you pit them against the superior characterizations and narrative arc of B5 and vastly superior acting of BSG. TNG is great firstly because it provided the springboard for sci-fi as a modern medium. We wouldn't have B5 and BSG if TNG hadn't first proved it immensely profitable for such an effects-dependent genre to exist. While it does have some great characters (Picard and Data in particular), it doesn't have the depth of characterization, storytelling, or acting to match with either the other two in the series or the best of other shows in the genre.

Enterprise FTW. That was the best. It seemed to connect most. MAybe because it was set in the not so distant future as supposed to the others. Good stories too. Nazi Aliens! :eek: Honostly though the characters were great. Archer actually has pressure situations!Kirk doesn't have to do anything. Oh and the Doctor does more than scan somebody and say they're cured. T'Pol was also a great second officer. Redeay to actuall be second in command. And they had a translater because not every alien spook English. The engineers awere intelligent for once. They were real people, with real problems. Good stories. Good show. TNG was second best.

What we put Deanna in the big chair and let her think she's driving? That makes Data sound like a driver's ed teacher.

Not exactly. Remember, she ALSO said "Helm controls are offline!" right before Data's "Oh SHIT!"
There's a video game version of the movie that makes explicit that the ejection mechanism is damaged. The movie version however it was probably just an oversight.

The game also made it clear Picard went back and kill Soran while he was on the ship. That game was weird.

I was glad to see the ship blow up though, badly designed.
:mad:

DO NOT INSULT MY CHILDHOOD AGAIN!

Enterprise FTW. That was the best. It seemed to connect most. MAybe because it was set in the not so distant future as supposed to the others. Good stories too. Nazi Aliens! :eek: But for real I really liked it and wished it hadn't been cancelled so soon. TNG was second best.

Nazi aliens were not a good story. Period. It was just another spit in the face of Germany.

For fuck's sake, people who make Star Trek, Germany is not just about the fucking Nazis. Every damned time Germany is featured it's Nazis Nazis Nazis...GET OVER IT!

Not exactly. Remember, she ALSO said "Helm controls are offline!" right before Data's "Oh SHIT!"

The game also made it clear Picard went back and kill Soran while he was on the ship. That game was weird.

:mad:

DO NOT INSULT MY CHILDHOOD AGAIN!

Check the technical diagrams, look at the position of the anti-matter storage pods. One good torpedo and that ship is a rapidly self annihilating ball of energy.

Check the technical diagrams, look at the position of the anti-matter storage pods. One good torpedo and that ship is a rapidly self annihilating ball of energy.

I know there are design flaws. That's not the point. That ship epitomizes my childhood. I grew up on TNG. Picard has been my hero my whole life in one way or another, and that ship is an extension of him in my mind.

I hated watching it be destroyed and I don't like it when people praise its destruction, that's all.

DO NOT INSULT MY CHILDHOOD AGAIN!
It was badly designed. did you know that the ship design of the original enterprise (and subsequent designs) is upside down? One of the techs on the show turned the ship upside down and said "hey, doesn't this look better?" and everyone agreed. thus the warp nacells ended up above the ship instead of below it.


Of course, it doesn't stop the show from being one of my childhood memories.

It was badly designed. did you know that the ship design of the original enterprise (and subsequent designs) is upside down? One of the techs on the show turned the ship upside down and said "hey, doesn't this look better?" and everyone agreed. thus the warp nacells ended up above the ship instead of below it.


Of course, it doesn't stop the show from being one of my childhood memories.
As I said, I don't care about the design flaws. It has quite a lot of sentimental value to me.

As I said, I don't care about the design flaws. It has quite a lot of sentimental value to me.

heck, I grew up with Ultraman (http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20061112x1.html) and Kikaida (http://incolor.inebraska.com/stuart/kikaida/index.htm) as well as Godzilla.

so make no mistake, I'm not trying to crush your childhood, rather enjoying my sentimental afinity with TOS. :cool:

heck, I grew up with Ultraman (http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20061112x1.html) and Kikaida (http://incolor.inebraska.com/stuart/kikaida/index.htm) as well as Godzilla.

so make no mistake, I'm not trying to crush your childhood, rather enjoying my sentimental afinity with TOS. :cool:

Oh, well, okay then. Fair enough my fellow Trekkie.

Who Watches the Watchers.

The Inner Light(I think.)

Tapestry.

Watch and learn.

I'll add to the list of stories in which Picard actually talks about his personal belief system:

- Where Silence Has Lease
- We'll Always Have Paris
- Measure of a Man

There are many more, but from time to time, he lets something slip that reveals a bit more about himself. And Who Watches the Watchers is perhaps one of my favorite Trek episodes.

There are many more, but from time to time, he lets something slip that reveals a bit more about himself. And Who Watches the Watchers is perhaps one of my favorite Trek episodes.

Well given that trek to me was always like watching a car crash in slow motion.... you sorta know whats going to happen next and what the aftermath will be, but you keep watching out of morbid curiousity, DS9 was the best series because the characters were'nt all 1 dimensional.

In fact the best espisode was the where garak helped the federation get the romulans on board for a war :eek:
That one always sticks in my mind as more like a Babylon 5 espisode than a trek one:cool:

Mind you, they dragged it out over 7 seasons when it could have been done in about 5
Story arc esp, holodeck non-event, back to the story arc, comedy esp, etc etc etc etc

I like them all. I am older than most people here and grew up next to Leonard Neimoy in Boston. His father was a barber on Blue Hill Ave, and used to cut my hair....LOL. Anyway, as far as SciFi is concerned I do have to throw a quick word in for Stargate SG-1 in since many here have crossover interest.

Nazi aliens were not a good story. Period. It was just another spit in the face of Germany.

For fuck's sake, people who make Star Trek, Germany is not just about the fucking Nazis. Every damned time Germany is featured it's Nazis Nazis Nazis...GET OVER IT!

TOS episode Patterns of Force first introduced Nazi Aliens

The short-lived cartoon series, obviously.

The short-lived cartoon series, obviously.

That is just wrong man...my vote is For TOS...klingons had no words for fear until Kirk...

I would definitely say Deep Space Nine for its level of plot development and interesting characters, but The Next Generation was also quite good. Voyager seems rather hit or miss to me, some great episodes interspersed with some of the silliest nonsense since Spock's Brain. I haven't seen enough of The Original Series or Enterprise to make much of a judgment though the latter has not impressed me much from what I have seen.

Tos

There's a general rule of Star Trek - the first series was the best, and all following series were progressively worse. Enterprise being the worst possible thing to ever have appeared on television. Ever.

The movies (I - VI) were best of all, however. Especially II and VI.

I do have a soft-spot for DS9, however - the one series where Trek grew up.

There's a general rule of Star Trek - the first series was the best, and all following series were progressively worse. Enterprise being the worst possible thing to ever have appeared on television. Ever.

The movies (I - VI) were best of all, however. Especially II and VI.


Nah... Undiscovered Country, and First Contact were the best movies, and Search for Spock, Final Frontier and Insurrection were diaperfodder.

In fact - the odd/even rule is pretty consistent. Odd numbered startrek movies are pants, even numbered ones are good... or at least, better.

Doesn't bode well for the (alleged) December 2008 movie...

Nah... Undiscovered Country, and First Contact were the best movies, and Search for Spock, Final Frontier and Insurrection were diaperfodder.

In fact - the odd/even rule is pretty consistent. Odd numbered startrek movies are pants, even numbered ones are good... or at least, better.

Doesn't bode well for the (alleged) December 2008 movie...

I don't know, Nemesis was pretty bad, I'd hate to see one worse.

I don't know, Nemesis was pretty bad, I'd hate to see one worse.

... Final Frontier.

the movie that had such classic lines as...
"Excuse me... why does God need a Starship?"

TOS episode Patterns of Force first introduced Nazi Aliens

Exactly my point. Star Trek has ALWAYS acted as if all Germans are Nazis.

Exactly my point. Star Trek has ALWAYS acted as if all Germans are Nazis.
dunno about the other 'Nazi' episodes, but Patterns of Force explained how that culture came about. Another captain actually molded the society around Nazi Germany using the computer's history data thus violating the 'Prime Directive.'

Dunno what 'excuse' the other 'Nazi' episodes used.

That is just wrong man...my vote is For TOS...klingons had no words for fear until Kirk...
Oddly enough, even with Klingon opera AND Klingon Shakespeare, they had no words for "overacting" until Kirk either. :p

What we put Deanna in the big chair and let her think she's driving? That makes Data sound like a driver's ed teacher.

It's funny how many sigworthy lines come out of the nerdiest threads .... :p

They might as well have had the Bush administration play the crew (Cheney would be T'Pol.)

The completely fucked part of your concept is the contrast of sexiness 'twixt the two, and in what measure. :hork:

Oddly enough, even with Klingon opera AND Klingon Shakespeare, they had no words for "overacting" until Kirk either. :p

It's not....over acting...if....you stick around....for....

it's completion...then it...serves...a....function

Is it something to do with constipation?

actually developed during a lousy stage play to keep butts in the seats until the curtain dropped...he just never managed to leave it behind.

dunno about the other 'Nazi' episodes, but Patterns of Force explained how that culture came about. Another captain actually molded the society around Nazi Germany using the computer's history data thus violating the 'Prime Directive.'

Dunno what 'excuse' the other 'Nazi' episodes used.

Yes, the first one is excusable, especially happening in the sixties when World War II was still more or less fresh in everyone's minds. (As fresh as a war that ended twenty years or so before can be.)

The others are not. Both Voyager and Enterprise's Nazi episodes made no sense and were just insulting.

it's completion...then it...serves...a....function

Is it something to do with constipation?

Oddly enough, even with Klingon opera AND Klingon Shakespeare, they had no words for "overacting" until Kirk either. :p

Apparently during Star Trek II the director consistently repeated many scenes numerous times, purely for the purpose of knackering Shatner to the point where he'd put on a more natural act. If that's true, then the movie must have been in production for longer than any other movie in the history of mankind.

I'd hate to be one of the people who work with him... it must be... so... infuriating.

TOS was around when I was in high school, and is the only ST series of which I've seen more than a few scattered episodes. I rather enjoyed watching it at the time, but a few years later the fact suddenly dawned on me that
"Wait a minute! They routinely send the ship's Captain and senior officers down to explore unknown planets, instead of keeping those people aboard to run the ship and having a separate team for exploration? Isn't that a pretty stupid thing to do?!?"

TOS was around when I was in high school, and is the only ST series of which I've seen more than a few scattered episodes. I rather enjoyed watching it at the time, but a few years later the fact suddenly dawned on me that
"Wait a minute! They routinely send the ship's Captain and senior officers down to explore unknown planets, instead of keeping those people aboard to run the ship and having a separate team for exploration? Isn't that a pretty stupid thing to do?!?"

Yeah, I think TNG clocked on to that one too. I think it was the very first episode where Riker lectured Picard on the values of not putting the Captain into harms way all the time...

Poor old Picard. Kirk got to go gallivanting around the cosmos getting all the girls and all the thrills, while Picard was stuck in his beige chair. Just not fair really, is it?

Who Watches the Watchers.

The Inner Light(I think.)

Tapestry.

Watch and learn.

But the thing is, those really don't make Picard THAT much deeper. (For the record, The Inner Light is my favorite episode.) Tapestry was like Star Trek's take on A Christmas Carol (Good, but I did mention already that Picrd's Starfleet Academy experiences were one of the few big depth-vuilding items in the series.)

I'll add to the list of stories in which Picard actually talks about his personal belief system:

- Where Silence Has Lease
- We'll Always Have Paris
- Measure of a Man

There are many more, but from time to time, he lets something slip that reveals a bit more about himself. And Who Watches the Watchers is perhaps one of my favorite Trek episodes.

I'd say Measure of a Man is the closest of these to actually explore a spiritual side of Picard, and I had hoped that future episodes would flesh that out, but it never really happened. The other episodes you mention were good, and had a measure of depth in and of themselves, but didn't do all that much to put Picard on a level that even remotely compares with William Adama (IMHO)

Yeah, I think TNG clocked on to that one too. I think it was the very first episode where Riker lectured Picard on the values of not putting the Captain into harms way all the time...

Poor old Picard. Kirk got to go gallivanting around the cosmos getting all the girls and all the thrills, while Picard was stuck in his beige chair. Just not fair really, is it?
Wasn't TNG the series with the episode in which the crew of the Enterprise knew that something serious was wrong with the crew of another Starfleet ship but still sent a boarding party across to it -- and brought them back -- without using spacesuits or any kind of biohazard isolation system?

Wasn't TNG the series with the episode in which the crew of the Enterprise knew that something serious was wrong with the crew of another Starfleet ship but still sent a boarding party across to it -- and brought them back -- without using spacesuits or any kind of biohazard isolation system?

Civilisations in Star Trek, particularly the UFP, have this unnerving tendency to rely on immunisations and inoculations for everything. Even radiation, for crying out loud. Their general attitude seems to be - "Why protect against it at all when we can probably just devise some kind of cure after we get back?"

One of the only good parts of ST: Enterprise was the addition of a decontamination room. Although, why they had to get nekked and smoother each other with goo is still lost on me.

One of the only good parts of ST: Enterprise was the addition of a decontamination room. Although, why they had to get nekked and smoother each other with goo is still lost on me.
Maybe they enjoyed it? ;)

Wasn't TNG the series with the episode in which the crew of the Enterprise knew that something serious was wrong with the crew of another Starfleet ship but still sent a boarding party across to it -- and brought them back -- without using spacesuits or any kind of biohazard isolation system?

Ah yes, but remember the good ol' transporter... the ultimate deus ex machina that filters out harmful bio agents... except when the plot required that it not.

Nah... Undiscovered Country, and First Contact were the best movies, and Search for Spock, Final Frontier and Insurrection were diaperfodder.

In fact - the odd/even rule is pretty consistent. Odd numbered startrek movies are pants, even numbered ones are good... or at least, better.

Doesn't bode well for the (alleged) December 2008 movie...

well the last one was an outrage so the chain may be broken...another bad star trek movie is not what the world needs

Yeah, I think TNG clocked on to that one too. I think it was the very first episode where Riker lectured Picard on the values of not putting the Captain into harms way all the time...

Poor old Picard. Kirk got to go gallivanting around the cosmos getting all the girls and all the thrills, while Picard was stuck in his beige chair. Just not fair really, is it?

the TOS episode where they were experimenting with a Computer as Captain also touched on it.

the Computer assigned an "away" team to explore and Kirk asked why wasn't the Captain assigned to go down, the reply was "the captain is NOT expendable."

Wasn't TNG the series with the episode in which the crew of the Enterprise knew that something serious was wrong with the crew of another Starfleet ship but still sent a boarding party across to it -- and brought them back -- without using spacesuits or any kind of biohazard isolation system?

I've never seen a TNG episode where they had Haz mat suits... But I wasn't a big fan of TNG... were there any?