NationStates Jolt Archive

Brightest poor children do worse than wealthy but dim classmates

Social mobility has not increased in 30 years and British children are the least likely to escape their background, a report says today. The academic progress of children is overwhelmingly linked to how much their parents earn, according to researchers from the London School of Economics.

They say that the brightest children born into the poorest families in 2000 are, by now, being overtaken in test scores by the least academic children from rich backgrounds. And whereas almost half of 23-year-olds from the wealthiest households had acquired a degree in 2002 only 10 per cent of those with the poorest parents did so.

Sir Peter Lampl, chairman of the Sutton Trust, which funded the research, said: “Britain remains stuck at the bottom of the international league tables when it comes to social mobility. It is appalling that young people’s life chances are still so tied to the fortunes of their parents and that this situation has not improved over the last three decades.

[...] “Those from the poorest fifth of households, but in the brightest group at age 3, drop from the 88th percentile on cognitive tests at 3 to the 65th percentile at age 5.

“Those from the richest households who are least able at age 3 move up from the 15th percentile to the 45th percentile by age 5. If this trend continued these children from affluent backgrounds would be likely to overtake the poorer, but initially bright, children in test scores by age 7.”


(link (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article3042864.ece))

So much for the theory that intelligence and hard work will enable you to succeed no matter what background you're born into.

Kind of answers the other thread about poverty being as a result of choices. The report shows that bright children from poor families are soon overtaken academically by average children from more affluent families. This will affect their future income and is not anything to do with a choice they have made.

Speaking as a dim-minded affluent UK student, I'm not at all suprised.

So much for Blair's promise that his government's main priorities would include "Education, Education, Education!"

Bah, bring back the grammar schools!
(but, this time, fund the schools for the less academically inclined pupils properly too as well...)

(I am of 'working class' parentage, but was fortunate enough to go through the educational system just before the grammar schools in my area were wrecked by comprehensivisation and while there were still student grants...)

Of course there is no social mobility anywhere when social mobility is based on higher education and higher education is only obtainable by those who can afford it.

Clearly the poor just make lazier children. Anyone who says otherwise is a communist.

Clearly the poor just make lazier children. Anyone who says otherwise is a communist.

o.O

Of course there is no social mobility anywhere when social mobility is based on higher education and higher education is only obtainable by those who can afford it.

At a certain level, you qualify for assistance with fees.

e.g. I had my university fees paid by the Local Education Authority.

I don't know why more people don't take advantage of this. Some would day it's getting others to pay your way through uni, but if you elevate yourself into a higher class with a better job and better wages, you ultimately pay back what you used.

This is news how? I thought everyone knew this...

This is news how? I thought everyone knew this...

See the massive "poverty is through choices" thread?

You must note that the system IS changing now. From what I hear, the newer generations are much more eligible for good jobs then the current crops of adults in the UK.

o.O

You wanna say somethin'? Huh? Huh? C'mon, COMMIE.
*Chest poke*

At a certain level, you qualify for assistance with fees.

e.g. I had my university fees paid by the Local Education Authority.

I don't know why more people don't take advantage of this. Some would day it's getting others to pay your way through uni, but if you elevate yourself into a higher class with a better job and better wages, you ultimately pay back what you used.

The whole idea that people aren't going to uni because they can't afford it is absolutely ridiculous. I have never, in my whole life, known anyone who is not going to university simply because it costs too much money. People from poorer backgrounds (like me), have access to a number of different benefit programs + student loans don't have to be repaid until you are earning a high enough salary.

See the massive "poverty is through choices" thread?

Because clearly people who think that many of the poor are poor through choice would inherently be against the idea of a good and equal education system. Oh wait...

Clearly the poor just make lazier children. Anyone who says otherwise is a communist.
Correct. Ironically, the best cure for this condition seems to be the removal of the parent figure. Anyone who doubts the supreme industriousness of orphans has obviously never seen the way those chimney sweeps scramble along the roof of a mansion.

student loans don't have to be repaid until you are earning a high enough salary.

:eek::eek::eek:really? here in the US you get 6 months and then you have to start paying them back. doesn't really matter what your making.

:eek::eek::eek:really? here in the US you get 6 months and then you have to start paying them back. doesn't really matter what your making.
Well, in the South East, £15,000 per year is not what I call a particulary high salary, especially when one takes off income tax, national insurance and the student loan.

Because clearly people who think that many of the poor are poor through choice would inherently be against the idea of a good and equal education system. Oh wait...

Um, what? The article is in support of the view that poverty often isn't a choice.

Because clearly people who think that many of the poor are poor through choice would inherently be against the idea of a good and equal education system. Oh wait...
I don't think that's quite what he meant.

:eek::eek::eek:really? here in the US you get 6 months and then you have to start paying them back. doesn't really matter what your making.

It's fairly unlikely you'll get a proper job which doesn't meet the minimum salary. It's 15k.

The whole idea that people aren't going to uni because they can't afford it is absolutely ridiculous. I have never, in my whole life, known anyone who is not going to university simply because it costs too much money. People from poorer backgrounds (like me), have access to a number of different benefit programs + student loans don't have to be repaid until you are earning a high enough salary.

The maximum loan amount is £4,405. Rent here costs about £3600 a year. That leaves £800 living money for a year. Of course they could get a job but working during term time is likely to have an adverse affect on their grades which could explain why able students from poor backgrounds are achieving lower grades than less able rich students.

Um, what? The article is in support of the view that poverty often isn't a choice.

Sorry, I just got the impression that you were using the fact that education is currently a bit crap in the UK to attack those who are against giving benefits to those able but refusing to work.

The maximum loan amount is £4,405. Rent here costs about £3600 a year. That leaves £800 living money for a year. Of course they could get a job but working during term time is likely to have an adverse affect on their grades which could explain why able students from poor backgrounds are achieving lower grades than less able rich students.
I'd take that. My loan doesn't even cover my rent.

The maximum loan amount is £4,405. Rent here costs about £3600 a year. That leaves £800 living money for a year. Of course they could get a job but working during term time is likely to have an adverse affect on their grades which could explain why able students from poor backgrounds are achieving lower grades than less able rich students.

I don't think that's it. If you get a degree from a university, you are much more likely to be earning more then 15k, I could get a job that earns about that much now if I wanted too without going to uni. If the degree was so bad that you can only just earn that with no hope of earning more, you probably shouldn't have bothered with that degree in the first place.

I don't think that's it. If you get a degree from a university, you are much more likely to be earning more then 15k, I could get a job that earns about that much now if I wanted too without going to uni. If the degree was so bad that you can only just earn that with no hope of earning more, you probably shouldn't have bothered with that degree in the first place.

I think he was talking about life while studying, not after.

Oh whoops, that was rather stupid of me.

Hehe I guess boredom makes one do stoopid things!;)

The maximum loan amount is £4,405. Rent here costs about £3600 a year. That leaves £800 living money for a year. Of course they could get a job but working during term time is likely to have an adverse affect on their grades which could explain why able students from poor backgrounds are achieving lower grades than less able rich students.

What would you put under the heading 'living money'?

What would you put under the heading 'living money'?

Food, electricity, gas, books...

The maximum loan amount is £4,405. Rent here costs about £3600 a year. That leaves £800 living money for a year. Of course they could get a job but working during term time is likely to have an adverse affect on their grades which could explain why able students from poor backgrounds are achieving lower grades than less able rich students.

Jeebus, students can be such snobs about where they choose to live. My rent is only £2,400 for the whole year.

Food, electricity, gas, books...

Electricity and gas are the only ones I can see being added costs above what you would normally have paid for by your parents at home.

In my experience university libraries can cover the books

Jeebus, students can be such snobs about where they choose to live. My rent is only £2,400 for the whole year.

For £290 a month I get a flat with windows so old that it gets cold enough to see your breath in winter. Extravagant, I know, but I do insist on luxury.

Electricity and gas are the only ones I can see being added costs above what you would normally have paid for by your parents at home.

In my experience university libraries can cover the books

Edinburgh's library only supply six or seven copies of the course text. When you have 200 students doing the same course its not really sufficient. Older texts are available second hand but are often out of date as well.