NationStates Jolt Archive

now i'm a romantic at heart so any person who has ever been married i want to know, how did you propose, or were proposed to?

Well, the first time around was rather spontaneous and something my wife still gets embarrassed over so I'll tell you about the second time.

My (then) fiancee and I had been fitted for her engagement ring and our wedding rings during the winter break when she had returned to Japan. We then separated out for as semester with her going back to the US and I staying in Japan to teach. When summer break hit, my fiancee came back to Japan and I traveled from Nagano to Tokyo to meet her at Narita International. About three weeks previously I had asked her if she preferred mountains, oceans, or forests and getting an ocean answer I took her out to Tokyo Bay to a nice little park. We had a good dinner and then took a stroll down by the waterfront where I managed to get her right to the water with the Rainbow Bridge as a color changing backdrop along with the rest of the Tokyo skyline. Sank down to one knee and asked her if she was still sure about getting married to me.

Since she said yes, I decided to give her the ring then. ;)

It was rather beautiful... just slightly surreal as said park has a quarter scale modle of the Statue of Liberty in it so it was a little...

I did it the old fashioned way. I walked her back to her mums home (yep we were that young)after an evening out, went down on bended knee out side the front door and popped the question. Her exact words as I remember it were 'Ohhh yes of course I will' That was almost 20 years ago now.:D

We were camping at Darlington Provincial Park (nice beach, but right next to a bloody train crossing...) at the time. We had only been dating about two years by then. We were sitting by the camp fire that I built (yes I, the woman built it; he couldn't make a decent one), when he proposed. This was the unofficial proposal. The official one was in this past year once we had the rings fitted and crafted.

Me and my family + my boyfriend were sitting around watching the ball drop on television on New Year's Eve 2006, when at 12:00 my fiance got down on one knee with this shimmering platinum ring in his hand, and asked me to marry him...

I'm not sure if I'd want to propose or be proposed to. Both have their fair share of nerve-racking moments, and I do reject the stereotype (in a hetero relationship) that the man must propose to the woman. And another thing, do you tell your and their family before or after?

He asked my father for my hand. My father agreed and I accepted.

I accidentally proposed while on vacation once. My partner and I were resting up in our hotel room after a day of sight-seeing, and I was reading a book in which the main character was wrestling with issues in his relationship. I off-handedly asked my partner, "Would you like to get married?"

I meant, "Do you fancy the idea of matrimony in general?"

He heard, "Will you marry me?"

After a few moments of charged silenced, I looked up from my book to see him staring at me with an expression of mingled confusion, surprise, and terror.

Took a lot of snogging to calm him down, I tell you what.

I accidentally proposed while on vacation once. My partner and I were resting up in our hotel room after a day of sight-seeing, and I was reading a book in which the main character was wrestling with issues in his relationship. I off-handedly asked my partner, "Would you like to get married?"

I meant, "Do you fancy the idea of matrimony in general?"

He heard, "Will you marry me?"

After a few moments of charged silenced, I looked up from my book to see him staring at me with an expression of mingled confusion, surprise, and terror.

Took a lot of snogging to calm him down, I tell you what.
If he doesn't want to marry you, why are you dating?

He asked my father for my hand. My father agreed and I accepted.

Nice! I went and told her parents that I'm marrying their daughter. The old man just shrugged, and the mother-in-law asked me if I was sure.

If he doesn't want to marry you, why are you dating?

Duh! For the sex of course!:D

If he doesn't want to marry you, why are you dating?
Neither of us wants to get married right now, so it's a good fit.

Why would you want to marry a person who asks your father before he asks you? Either you're a minor (which would be why he'd literally need your father's permission) and you should grow up before you wed, or your partner views you as your father's property and thinks that your father has the right to give or withhold permission regarding who you marry. Why not find a partner who understands that you are the only person who can give or withhold your consent?

He asked my father for my hand. My father agreed and I accepted.

*lol
I think if my BF ever did that, I'd bash his teeth in with a spanner!

*lol
I think if my BF ever did that, I'd bash his teeth in with a spanner!

Yep the Mike Tyson of NSG, theres no denying it!

If he doesn't want to marry you, why are you dating?

Why bother wasting money getting married only to waste more getting divorced again? That only pays when you got enough tax benefits in between, so it's kind of pointless for many people

Yep the Mike Tyson of NSG, theres no denying it!

*goes of the find ear-biting spanner*

*lol
I think if my BF ever did that, I'd bash his teeth in with a spanner!
If a guy ever asked my dad for my hand in marriage, my dad would be disgusted and would recommend that I ditch the jerk immediately. My mom would gently tell the would-be suitor that he is clearly not equipped to be my spouse, offer to make him some tea, and then sit him down for a kindly lecture on how this is the 21st century.

My brother would probably bonk the guy with his head and then ask him to play MarioKart. My brother is the true diplomat of the family, though.

If a guy ever asked my dad for my hand in marriage, my dad would be disgusted and would recommend that I ditch the jerk immediately. My mom would gently tell the would-be suitor that he is clearly not equipped to be my spouse, offer to make him some tea, and then sit him down for a kindly lecture on how this is the 21st century.

My brother would probably bonk the guy with his head and then ask him to play MarioKart. My brother is the true diplomat of the family, though.

Well, the fact that my father and I haven't spoken in well over 10 years would complicate matters a bit.
If my BF ever got enough knowledge of German to ask my mother for my hand, we'd be lucky if she's be able to stop laughing ever again. MY brothers would just assume he's a dickhead, really...

If my fiance asked my parents, they'd both look at him and say "How about you ask him, you silly goose!"

I'm not sure if I'd want to propose or be proposed to. Both have their fair share of nerve-racking moments, and I do reject the stereotype (in a hetero relationship) that the man must propose to the woman.

I've always kind of thought that a proposal is a weird idea anyhow. For me, the decision to get married is mutual, so the idea of one person "popping the question" is odd. I've always thought it would be one of those things that we decided together, and it wouldn't really come as a surprise to either of us because we'd both be a part of it.


And another thing, do you tell your and their family before or after?
Obviously after, since it'd be a mutual decision. You couldn't make the decision before your partner knew about it.

Though I have certainly talked with my parents about my partner and the possibility of us getting married, so they'd probably have an inkling beforehand. It's like how my parents kind of knew which college I was going to choose before I officially decided, because I'd talked about my thoughts and feelings with them and they knew which way I was leaning. I doubt my parents will be surprised if/when I announce I'm getting married.

Well I am not married yet but I am an engaged man!

I proposed to my fiance in the gazeboo by the lake at the university her and I attended. It was bright and sunny and the swans that are a part of our university were over by the gazeboo when I proposed to her.

I've always kind of thought that a proposal is a weird idea anyhow.

Heh now that makes me feel like bursting into song, one from 'Fiddler on the roof'(the best musical and no mistake) cookie for for the correct song!

Heh now that makes me feel like bursting into song, one from 'Fiddler on the roof'(the best musical and no mistake) cookie for for the correct song!
The Bottle Dance!!

The Bottle Dance!!

Nope. 'Tradition!'

Nope. 'Tradition!'

Meh... see my sig for that ;)

Nope. 'Tradition!'
But...but...The Bottle Dance!

*boogies*

I've always kind of thought that a proposal is a weird idea anyhow. For me, the decision to get married is mutual, so the idea of one person "popping the question" is odd. I've always thought it would be one of those things that we decided together, and it wouldn't really come as a surprise to either of us because we'd both be a part of it.

One would hope that you would have discussed the possibility of marriage with your partner, before raising the question, however, simply as a matter of logistics, somebody has to ask.

I think I first need to have a girlfriend, then know her quite well for some time, living together, no university etc. anymore before I can even think about getting married :)

One would hope that you would have discussed the possibility of marriage with your partner, before raising the question, however, simply as a matter of logistics, somebody has to ask.
Technically I suppose so, though I always pictured it happening in the context of a mutual discussion rather than one person "popping" a question at the other.

My partner, however, comes from a pretty traditional background, and even though he's largely decided to move away from it he still hangs on to a few things that he finds personally appealing. One of them is the idea of proposing. We actually had a fight because I let him know that I don't like engagement rings and wouldn't want to wear one. Took a bit to straighten that one out. I think he'd still like to be the one to "propose" to me, if we get to that point, mainly because he enjoys planning romantic surprises and such. I certainly won't begrudge him his fun, as long as he includes good food and lots of nudity in his plan.

Technically I suppose so, though I always pictured it happening in the context of a mutual discussion rather than one person "popping" a question at the other.

Sure. But yeah, someone at least has to ask "so, wanna get married" or you run in hypothetical circles forever.


I think he'd still like to be the one to "propose" to me, if we get to that point, mainly because he enjoys planning romantic surprises and such. I certainly won't begrudge him his fun, as long as he includes good food and lots of nudity in his plan.

Good thing you don't want a ring...where would he put it...

Good thing you don't want a ring...where would he put it...

Through the nose?

Sure. But yeah, someone at least has to ask "so, wanna get married" or you run in hypothetical circles forever.

Well, as it is at the moment with me and my BF, we both know we'll get married eventually, we just need to discuss the date. Eventually.


Good thing you don't want a ring...where would he put it...

Don't rings normally go on fingers?? :confused:

This is a bit of a long story, so bear with me:

I had been thinking of proposing for a while, even mentioning the idea to my father (who, in his usual way, said nothing), but had yet to buy an engagement ring. My folks had sent one of the cars up to college with me, so now that I actually had transportation, I decided to go out and look around.

From Western Illinois U to Springfield is about 45 minutes, so it's about 3 or 4 when I arrive. Look around the jewelry stores in the mall, and purchase a respectable diamond solitaire ring. Told you that so I can tell you this:

On the way home I pass thru my hometown and stop for gas, fill up the tank, pay, and try to start my Jeep.

Nothing. Won't start.

Try and jump it, still nothing. It's about 6 now, which in February in the Midwest means it's completely dark, and my car is stuck in the gas station. Also, it being a small town, just about everybody immediately recognizes me. I manage to get ahold of my mother, who picks me up from the gas station but unfortunately can't take me back to college. So I have to call my future bride-to-be to take me the rest of the way. She arrives about 8-9 and we don't get back to college until around 10.

It wasn't until about two weeks later that I proposed, I purposely waited until after Valentine's Day but, due to me wanting to get the ring out of my room, I proposed the week after: the week of the '06 Superbowl. Didn't hear the end of that for months.

I've always kind of thought that a proposal is a weird idea anyhow. For me, the decision to get married is mutual, so the idea of one person "popping the question" is odd. I've always thought it would be one of those things that we decided together, and it wouldn't really come as a surprise to either of us because we'd both be a part of it.

In a sense, but it's kind of necessary just to initiate the conversation about it and actually decided upon it. The cultural significance places on the question is likely to make it 'special' in some way anyway, if only as a milestone in your relationship, a date and situation to remember. You can discuss it all you like to clarify things, but to actually ask and have an answer has a finality to it.

Obviously after, since it'd be a mutual decision. You couldn't make the decision before your partner knew about it.

Though I have certainly talked with my parents about my partner and the possibility of us getting married, so they'd probably have an inkling beforehand. It's like how my parents kind of knew which college I was going to choose before I officially decided, because I'd talked about my thoughts and feelings with them and they knew which way I was leaning. I doubt my parents will be surprised if/when I announce I'm getting married.

Indeed. Imagine telling their parents beforehand only to be rejected when you ask the question later. And anyway, if I did inform them before the actual question (and after discussion with my partner), it would be just that, informing them that it is happening; asking for permission would be horribly antiquated and disrespectful to your partner.

It was Christmas Eve, 1996. I went to meet her when she finished work, and we took a stroll along the river. I had the ring in my pocket and, after we'd been strolling along for 20 minutes or so just chatting away, I did the whole bended knee, "will you marry me?" thing and presented her with the open ring box, despite the dozens of Christmas shoppers that were milling around and the fact that it meant me planting one knee in the slush. Fortunately, she answered fairly quickly.
:)

It was just after an argument.

We were in Paris, had argued, and I'd decided that I wanted to marry her (during the argument!). Anyway, we got to the Eiffel Tower, were talking, and as we stood, in the dark, with the Tower flashing away above and behind us, I asked her to marry me and she said yes.

No bended knee, just love. :)

We went to the forest. It was winter. Darkness was falling and curious forest shadows were peeking at us from behind the trees and bushes to see if we are edible or just another nuisance from the city. At last, we were standing still. There was a great silence all around us. Then I knelt on one knee and asked her if she will marry me, and gave her the ring. And she said just "Yes!".
Of course the romantic mood of this moment might be somewhat dimished by the fact that I planned this all in advance. And she knew it. And that I asked her earlier if she might consider me if I asked her. And that we bought the ring together.
On the other hand, it was all pretty romantic anyway, considering the fact that when we met for the first time, she was convinced that she wants to die alone, free from relationships, and marriages and especially children are out of the question. :D

I'm 21 and in college, do you honestly expect me to even consider marriage for quite some time?

I'm 21 and in college, do you honestly expect me to even consider marriage for quite some time?

uh i said to those who were proposeing or proposed to??
also aww to everyones stories!!!!!!!!!!!

I was kidnapped by evil ninjas and pirates and held aboard a ninja/pirate ship somewhere off the coast of British Columbia. My love of my life, Cassandra came rescuing me, being the dashing knight in shining armor she always was. Then as she released me from my prison, she proposed to me.

Then I started laughing at the hilarious reversed roles and woke up.

In reality I have not ever proposed, for I have never truly gotten close enough to someone for that.

I'm 21 and in college, do you honestly expect me to even consider marriage for quite some time?Well I'm 19 and engaged, so its possible. :):p

Indeed. Imagine telling their parents beforehand only to be rejected when you ask the question later. And anyway, if I did inform them before the actual question (and after discussion with my partner), it would be just that, informing them that it is happening; asking for permission would be horribly antiquated and disrespectful to your partner.
Unless you happen to have a fiancee who comes from a very different cultural tradition. Just remember ladies (And gents) not everyone follows your ideas.

My wife and I discussed marriage before I asked her, but she also mentioned that in Japan, and especially in her family (Which is old fashioned) her parents would be happier if I asked them about it. It was a formality, but a very important one to her AND her family.

I remember it well. It was a romantic night, the stars were out and there was a nice breeze. So I took her to a quiet place with no one around..












this was mostly so no one would hear her screams, and I asked her, either you marry me or I will hurt you and your dog. She said yes and rest was history. :) :p see you thought I was going one way, and then I went the other. I'm good like that.

Got asked in August this year (both 17 at time yay adult situations) by a best friend I've had for a few years now to set the scene:

I was at a military base surrounded by guys who are "at that phase" and she popped this up in a conversation about ironing

basically I managed to worm my way into a "when we are older" though to be honest I already know that I can't escape my fate and this scares me deeply :(

I'm 21 and in college, do you honestly expect me to even consider marriage for quite some time?

I'm 21, at university, essentially jobless... and engaged. Why? Love.

I'm 21, at university, essentially jobless... and engaged. Why? Love.

It's my experience that love and marriage have little to do with one another, really

It's my experience that love and marriage have little to do with one another, really

Da, but hey, when one is so incredibly madly stupidly in love... well, it seemed right, you know? :)

now i'm a romantic at heart so any person who has ever been married i want to know, how did you propose, or were proposed to?
I was screaming in my sleep again!
If that wasn't enough, i was just barely aware of the fact that it was a midnight bladder relief on my mind, so i fell out of bed while i was doing it, onto one knee.
Wifey says it only could've been more romantic if she'd opted to put the harmonica to my lips again (like she usually does when i snore).

I'm 21, at university, essentially jobless... and engaged. Why? Love.
Love is not a reason to get engaged. I love my partner deeply, have for years, and we're not engaged.

So you obviously have some reason other than love. What is it?

Unless you happen to have a fiancee who comes from a very different cultural tradition. Just remember ladies (And gents) not everyone follows your ideas.

I never forgot it for a moment. I simply am not willing to play along with cultural traditions I find repulsive, like the tradition of asking a woman's father for his permission to marry her. I wouldn't play along with that tradition if an American man wanted me to, so why should I do so because a foreign man wanted me to?

Love is not a reason to get engaged. I love my partner deeply, have for years, and we're not engaged.

So you obviously have some reason other than love. What is it?

No no no no Bottle, perhaps for your good self there needs be another reason to get engaged. For Atopiana, he/she? has already given a perfectly valid reason.

I too got married for one and only one reason, love.

Why then is it perfectly obvious that another reason must be found? Why can't just love be a valid reason?

No no no no Bottle, perhaps for your good self there needs be another reason to get engaged. For Atopiana, he/she? has already given a perfectly valid reason.

I too got married for one and only one reason, love.

Why then is it perfectly obvious that another reason must be found? Why can't just love be a valid reason?
You seem to have misunderstood.

Love is not a stand-alone reason for marriage, as evidenced by the fact that a great many people are in love and yet choose not to marry. People who DO get married when they are in love obviously have some additional reason for doing so.

You could have continued to be in love yet chosen not to get married. You could have remained in love if you were prevented from getting married. Love does not automatically lead to marriage.

I don't see why so many people have trouble admitting this. I guess it sounds more romantic to claim that love was your only reason for marrying...? Meh.

No no no no Bottle, perhaps for your good self there needs be another reason to get engaged. For Atopiana, he/she? has already given a perfectly valid reason.

I too got married for one and only one reason, love.

Why then is it perfectly obvious that another reason must be found? Why can't just love be a valid reason?

Why would love require marriage? Or make it even desireable?
The way I see it, as long as my BF and I aren't married, each day that we are together is a gift from one to the other, a statement that we love each other. Marriage "for love" would to me signify that we don't trust in the love of the other and his willingness to stay together, that we would need a piece of paper, make it a legal issue if he/she should want to leave...

Why would love require marriage? Or make it even desireable?
The way I see it, as long as my BF and I aren't married, each day that we are together is a gift from one to the other, a statement that we love each other. Marriage "for love" would to me signify that we don't trust in the love of the other and his willingness to stay together, that we would need a piece of paper, make it a legal issue if he/she should want to leave...
See, and this is what I'm talking about.

Love =/= "let's get married."

Marriage doesn't require love, and love doesn't require marriage.

You seem to have misunderstood.

Love is not a stand-alone reason for marriage, as evidenced by the fact that a great many people are in love and yet choose not to marry. People who DO get married when they are in love obviously have some additional reason for doing so.

You could have continued to be in love yet chosen not to get married. You could have remained in love if you were prevented from getting married. Love does not automatically lead to marriage.

I don't see why so many people have trouble admitting this. I guess it sounds more romantic to claim that love was your only reason for marrying...? Meh.

Nope I understood perfectly. As evidenced by my statement and my question to you. Of course there may well be other reasons, but of course there may not be.

It is not obvious to me that people must have an additional reason to get married.

I got married purely because I love the woman I am married to. So it is obvious that love IS a stand alone reason to get married.

You may not want to believe me (as you say meh!) but it is 100% true. I'd be interested to know why you want to deny it though?

Why would love require marriage? Or make it even desireable?
The way I see it, as long as my BF and I aren't married, each day that we are together is a gift from one to the other, a statement that we love each other. Marriage "for love" would to me signify that we don't trust in the love of the other and his willingness to stay together, that we would need a piece of paper, make it a legal issue if he/she should want to leave...

I understand all of that, but answer me, why can't love be the only reason for marriage?

I understand all of that, but answer me, why can't love be the only reason for marriage?

Because I believe that people who trust each other have no reason to get married for love.
If love is the only reason you get married, I can't help wondering if you were feeling insecure about the relationship, or had doubts about the future as a couple...

I understand all of that, but answer me, why can't love be the only reason for marriage?

Because people are in love who aren't married and people are married who aren't in love.

Nope I understood perfectly. As evidenced by my statement and my question to you.

I answered your question.


Of course there may well be other reasons, but of course there may not be.

Whether or not you choose to think about the other reasons that were involved, they still exist.


It is not obvious to me that people must have an additional reason to get married.

Obviously not.


I got married purely because I love the woman I am married to. So it is obvious that love IS a stand alone reason to get married.

You may not want to believe me (as you say meh!) but it is 100% true.

Yeah, I don't believe you.

But I've also realized I don't particularly care.

I'd be interested to know why you want to deny it though?
I don't "want" to deny it, any more than I "want" to deny that humans can fly by flapping their arms real hard.

If love is the only reason you get married, I can't help wondering if you were feeling insecure about the relationship, or had doubts about the future as a couple...
In which case love wasn't actually the reason they got married. Their insecurities and doubts were.

:D

Because I believe that people who trust each other have no reason to get married for love.
If love is the only reason you get married, I can't help wondering if you were feeling insecure about the relationship, or had doubts about the future as a couple...

Ahh there you then, thats the problem we seem to be having here.

I'm not you though, I don't think like you, nor feel like you.

What you think and feel about love and marriage is obviously different from me. When you try to view my releationship through the eyes of your life, then I guess we are bound to disagree huh.

For the record then so that there is no misunderstanding. I met and fell in love with a girl, a year later I asked her to marry me, she said yes. That was almost 18 years ago now, we married for love and thats all.

For the record then so that there is no misunderstanding. I met and fell in love with a girl, a year later I asked her to marry me, she said yes. That was almost 18 years ago now, we married for love and thats all.
So you fell in love, and then A YEAR LATER you asked her to marry you.

So you were in love for a year, without getting married.

GEE WHIZ LOOKIT THAT.

What changed that then led you to propose, after a whole year of being in love?

If love is the only reason you married, why didn't you propose the instant you fell in love?

Ahh there you then, thats the problem we seem to be having here.

I'm not you though, I don't think like you, nor feel like you.

What you think and feel about love and marriage is obviously different from me. When you try to view my releationship through the eyes of your life, then I guess we are bound to disagree huh.

For the record then so that there is no misunderstanding. I met and fell in love with a girl, a year later I asked her to marry me, she said yes. That was almost 18 years ago now, we married for love and thats all.

So why are there people who are in love but not married or planning to get married? It seems to me that you weren't marrying for love, you were marrying because you think that's what people should do when in love.

So you fell in love, and then A YEAR LATER you asked her to marry you.

So you were in love for a year, without getting married.

GEE WHIZ LOOKIT THAT.

What changed that then led you to propose, after a whole year of being in love?

Are you really trying to turn this into something personal? Push me to defend my whole relationship, just because you don't belive that love CAN be a stand alone reason to get married?

Enough with the insult now, play nice huh.

Are you really trying to turn this into something personal? Push me to defend my whole relationship, just because you don't belive that love CAN be a stand alone reason to get married?

Enough with the insult now, play nice huh.
What insult? I didn't insult you at all, I just pointed out that you freely admitted that you were in love for a year without asking her to marry you, and that directly contradicts your claim that the ONLY reason you married was because you were in love.

You chose to bring up your relationship. You chose to make it the centerpoint of your argument. If you are regretting that now that your own words have completely undermined your claims, I can't blame you. But kindly don't claim that I'm insulting you just because I address your claims directly.

Ahh there you then, thats the problem we seem to be having here.

I'm not you though, I don't think like you, nor feel like you.

What you think and feel about love and marriage is obviously different from me. When you try to view my releationship through the eyes of your life, then I guess we are bound to disagree huh.

For the record then so that there is no misunderstanding. I met and fell in love with a girl, a year later I asked her to marry me, she said yes. That was almost 18 years ago now, we married for love and thats all.

So... you couldn't just stay together and love each other? What made you marry her?

What insult? I didn't insult you at all, I just pointed out that you freely admitted that you were in love for a year without asking her to marry you, and that directly contradicts your claim that the ONLY reason you married was because you were in love.

Complete bollox.

You called me a lair, thats insulting. You insinuate that I don't know my own motives for marrying, thats insulting.

Your logic is flawed, can you really not think of any reason that I may have delayed asking for a year? How exactly does it contradict what I say?

How is the emotion of love expressed the same, and viewed the same, and means the same for each and every person?

Do you really think that becasue you see it one way that any other way is invalid?

Peeps, this is getting to sound very aggressive on a very personal level, so I want to make it clear that I'm in no way attacking your position on marriage. I'm just trying to understand it.
You said that looking at it from my view, you can understand my position, and I'm simply trying to get to the same point.

As Bottle pointed out, love doesn't equate marriage, which is what you make it sound like. So I'm wondering, why did you feel love needed marriage?

So... you couldn't just stay together and love each other? What made you marry her?

Yes of course we could, but we wanted to be married. Are you having problems with understanding this because you somehow think that such a thing as marrying for love is 'old fashioned'?

Yes of course we could, but we wanted to be married.

And why did you want to be married? What makes being in love and married better than being in love and in a relationship?

Peeps, this is getting to sound very aggressive on a very personal level, so I want to make it clear that I'm in no way attacking your position on marriage. I'm just trying to understand it.
You said that looking at it from my view, you can understand my position, and I'm simply trying to get to the same point.

As Bottle pointed out, love doesn't equate marriage, which is what you make it sound like. So I'm wondering, why did you feel love needed marriage?

I am talking only about me. I don't understand your position, but I do understand that love is different for different people. I don't say that love equates marriage, only that I married for no other reason than love.

Not needed, wanted. I wanted to marry my wife, because I love her.

Complete bollox.

You called me a lair, thats insulting.

Where?


You insinuate that I don't know my own motives for marrying, thats insulting.

Where?

I don't know whether or not you know your own motives for getting married. You might just as well be completely aware of them and yet are choosing not to share them. I certainly never claimed you didn't know them. (Indeed, this whole thing started with me ASKING somebody about their motives, which would be pretty useless if I assumed they didn't know them.)


Your logic is flawed, can you really not think of any reason that I may have delayed asking for a year? How exactly does it contradict what I say?

...

You stated that the only reason you married was because you were in love.

You then stated that you were in love for a year and yet did not propose.

You now say that you had reason to not ask somebody to marry you (even after you fell in love).

Peep, you are explicitly and repeatedly stating that reasons other than love were involved in your decision to marry.

How can you possibly claim I'm insulting you when what I'm saying is the same thing you are saying?


How is the emotion of love expressed the same, and viewed the same, and means the same for each and every person?

Who is claiming that?


Do you really think that becasue you see it one way that any other way is invalid?
Who is claiming that?

I'm claiming that you yourself have flat-out stated that reasons other than love were involved in your decision to marry. Anybody reading the thread can see this for themselves.

And why did you want to be married? What makes being in love and married better than being in love and in a relationship?

Who said anything about better. Really, I mean is romance that dead that you really don't understand me?

I'll say it again. I got married because I love my wife.

I never forgot it for a moment. I simply am not willing to play along with cultural traditions I find repulsive, like the tradition of asking a woman's father for his permission to marry her. I wouldn't play along with that tradition if an American man wanted me to, so why should I do so because a foreign man wanted me to?
Re-read it again Bottle, it was HER cultural background and HER and HER family's wish, NOT mine.

In any case, this:

Why would you want to marry a person who asks your father before he asks you? Either you're a minor (which would be why he'd literally need your father's permission) and you should grow up before you wed, or your partner views you as your father's property and thinks that your father has the right to give or withhold permission regarding who you marry. Why not find a partner who understands that you are the only person who can give or withhold your consent?
Sounds very, how shall I say it, judgmental, as if only men do it for their own reasons. My wife was neither a minor nor property, but was very conscious of her family and wanting to set the groundwork for an international marriage that didn't involve telling one culture to stuff it.

Yes of course we could, but we wanted to be married. Are you having problems with understanding this because you somehow think that such a thing as marrying for love is 'old fashioned'?

Nah, I know for a fact that the idea of marrying for love is extremely modern indeed. ;)
However, from personal experience, people can in fact love each other without getting married. Most people I know of (not a statistical fact, just friends and family) then get married to make a public statement about their love, because their families want them to, because they want the big celebration, because they want to have kids without too much legal hassle about custody and the like, because "it's what you do", because they always dreamed of getting married one day, because they want to share the family name, etc.
Being in love is the basis, but in order to get married most people have one or more of the above reasons.

Who said anything about better.
If you chose to get married over not getting married then getting married must have been the better option from your point of view.
Really, I mean is romance that dead that you really don't understand me?

I'll say it again. I got married because I love my wife.

You also said that you were in love for a year. Why not just ask her to marry you as soon as you fell in love? Or after you fell in love and decided exactly how to propose? Why did it take a year to go from love to marriage?

Re-read it again Bottle, it was HER cultural background and HER and HER family's wish, NOT mine.

Um, yeah, I read that. I'm in a relationship with a man, so I used a male pronoun when talking about my situation.

If it helps, I wouldn't go along with such a tradition with a woman, either. If a woman asked my father for permission to marry me I would be just as insulted and turned off. I also would never remotely consider proposing to a woman who wanted me to ask her father first.

That's me, and that's my standard. I'm not trying to marry you or your partner, so none of us have to worry about this.


In any case, this:

Sounds very, how shall I say it, judgmental, as if only men do it for their own reasons. My wife was neither a minor nor property, but was very conscious of her family and wanting to set the groundwork for an international marriage that didn't involve telling one culture to stuff it.
I don't believe in excusing sexism just because it's "tradition" or "culture."

I don't let my own culture get away with that. Why should I let anybody else's culture get away with it?

I can respect somebody else's culture without agreeing with every aspect of it. I can reject sexism (in ALL its forms) without rejecting all cultures that happen to include some sexist traditions. I can reject the sexist traditions of a culture while embracing non-sexist traditions.

Any partner who isn't capable of grasping that is not somebody I should be marrying in the first place. Any partner who would ask me to play along with sexist traditions, particularly regarding something as important as a life-long commitment, is clearly not right for me. "Culture" is not an excuse for sexism in my book.

(Work demands my attention so I have to go for a bit. Please don't take it amiss if I don't respond to your posts for a bit.)

Where?

Post 50 where you say 'I don't believe you'


Where?

Post 60 where you say I got married because of my insecurities :D


You stated that the only reason you married was because you were in love.

You then stated that you were in love for a year and yet did not propose.

And that means......?


You now say that you had reason to not ask somebody to marry you (even after you fell in love).

No I said that your logic was flawed here, and asked if you could not think of any reason why I may have delayed. I'm trying here to find how you reach the conclusion that because I delayed it contradicts me. Why does that follow, logically?


Peep, you are explicitly and repeatedly stating that reasons other than love were involved in your decision to marry.

Nope I'm doing what I said that I didn't want to do, namely defending my relationship, pure because you can't see how love Can be a stand alone reason to get married.

Let give you motive for this whole malarkey, what drew me in.

You said quite specifically that it is Obvious that only love is not a valid reason to get married, that it is Obvious that all people that marry do so for other reasons.

I completely disagree as this was not the case with me. Queue disbelief!

Nah, I know for a fact that the idea of marrying for love is extremely modern indeed. ;)
However, from personal experience, people can in fact love each other without getting married. Most people I know of (not a statistical fact, just friends and family) then get married to make a public statement about their love, because their families want them to, because they want the big celebration, because they want to have kids without too much legal hassle about custody and the like, because "it's what you do", because they always dreamed of getting married one day, because they want to share the family name, etc.
Being in love is the basis, but in order to get married most people have one or more of the above reasons.

Yes I'll not deny that, my beef is really that love in and of itself can also be the sole reason for marriage.

If you chose to get married over not getting married then getting married must have been the better option from your point of view.

Huh?


You also said that you were in love for a year. Why not just ask her to marry you as soon as you fell in love? Or after you fell in love and decided exactly how to propose? Why did it take a year to go from love to marriage?

Why does that matter?

Yes I'll not deny that, my beef is really that love in and of itself can also be the sole reason for marriage.

So you didn't want to make your love official in any way? You didn't want to promise to stay together and make that official as well?

Huh?

Well, there must have been a difference between being married and not being married that made you want to be married, right? If there was no difference, you wouldn't have married.

So you didn't want to make your love official in any way? You didn't want to promise to stay together and make that official as well?

We could have done that without marriage huh.

Well, there must have been a difference between being married and not being married that made you want to be married, right? If there was no difference, you wouldn't have married.

Ahhh I see. Yes a romantic difference.

Huh?
It's pretty simple. You wouldn't have gotten married if you didn't think it was a better option than not getting married.


Why does that matter?

Because you whole 'married for love and only love' thing isn't fitting with being in love for a year and not getting married. It's rather confusing.

Reading this thread has got me all worked up. This discussion involves treading heavily on feelings and I think all the involved parties should exercise extreme caution.
That said, I admit that although of course we married because we love each other - in the sense that if we didn't, we wouldn't marry - if all the social, religious and legal reasons that made the marriage a sensible proposition for me didn't exist, I believe the institution of marriage wouldn't exist either and so we wouldn't be married...

Ahhh I see. Yes a romantic difference.

Ah, so you got married for romance. Well that's that settled then. :)

Good thing you don't want a ring...where would he put it...

You know, when you take your clothes off, you generally leave your fingers on.

Because you whole 'married for love and only love' thing isn't fitting with being in love for a year and not getting married. It's rather confusing.

I'll ask you the same then. You can think of no reasons at all for delaying that don't contradict? Not a one?

Why does it not fit. How does it follow that a delay in marriage somehow invalidates marrying for love?

Post 50 where you say 'I don't believe you'

"I don't believe you" =/= "You are a liar."


Post 60 where you say I got married because of my insecurities :D

Wrong. I was responding to speculation from another poster, and my phrasing makes it clear that my statements would only apply IF their speculation were accurate. (If/then format should tip you off.)


And that means......?

That your statement that you married ONLY because you were in love is obviously not true, since you were in love for quite a while without proposing.


No I said that your logic was flawed here, and asked if you could not think of any reason why I may have delayed. I'm trying here to find how you reach the conclusion that because I delayed it contradicts me. Why does that follow, logically?

Peep, I could think of many reasons to delay getting married even if you are in love.

THAT IS MY ENTIRE POINT.

You are the only person claiming that love, and love alone, was the reason behind your proposal. I'm the one saying that your love was obviously a very important factor, but it just as obviously was not the only factor. You said so yourself.


Nope I'm doing what I said that I didn't want to do, namely defending my relationship, pure because you can't see how love Can be a stand alone reason to get married.

According to you, it's not. Why are you arguing with me?


Let give you motive for this whole malarkey, what drew me in.

You said quite specifically that it is Obvious that only love is not a valid reason to get married, that it is Obvious that all people that marry do so for other reasons.

I said that love, in and of itself, is not going to cause people to get married. Love, in and of itself, doesn't automatically lead to marriage. Plenty of people marry who are not in love, and plenty of people who are in love do not marry. Love is neither necessary nor sufficient as an explanation, in other words.


I completely disagree as this was not the case with me. Queue disbelief!
But, as we've see, it was the case for you. Reasons other than love figured into your decision. You were in love for a year and did not propose, because--IN YOUR WORDS--you had reasons to wait.

That said, I admit that although of course we married because we love each other - in the sense that if we didn't, we wouldn't marry - if all the social, religious and legal reasons that made the marriage a sensible proposition for me didn't exist, I believe the institution of marriage wouldn't exist either and so we wouldn't be married...
The institution of marriage has only very, very recently become about love. For the vast majority of our history, marrying for love was rare. The institution survived just fine for centuries in this manner.

Heh now that makes me feel like bursting into song, one from 'Fiddler on the roof'(the best musical and no mistake)

Aye!

cookie for for the correct song!

Wonder of wonders, miracle of miracles-
God took up Daniel once again,
Stood by his and side and- miracle of miracles-
Walked him through the lions den!

Wonder of wonders, miracle of miracles-
I was afraid that God would frown,
But like he did so long ago, at Jericho,
God just made a wall fall down!

When Moses softened Pharaohs heart, that was a miracle.
When God made the waters of the red sea part, that was a miracle too!
But of all God's miracles large and small,
The most miraculous one of all
Is that out of a worthless lump of clay,
God has made a man today.

Wonder of wonders, miracle of miracles-
God took the tailor by the hand
Turned him around and- miracle of miracles- Led him to the promised land!

When David slew Goliath (yes!), that was a miracle.
When God gave us matter in the wilderness, that was a miracle too.
But of all God's miracles large and small,
The most miraculous one of all
Is the one I thought could never be:
God has given you to me.

Why does it not fit. How does it follow that a delay in marriage somehow invalidates marrying for love?
It doesn't "invalidate" it. It simply means that you didn't marry ONLY because you were in love. You married for other reasons, too. This doesn't remove the love component, or in any way reduce your feelings for your partner, it just means that there are factors beyond love involved in your decision.

Seriously, what's insulting about that? Frankly, I would be pretty disgusted if my partner married me ONLY for love, because that would indicate a total thoughtlessness and lack of respect on his part. Many other factors can and should be weighed before somebody commits to a life-long partnership. Failure to do so isn't something to be praised or respected. It's careless, reckless, and irresponsible.

That your statement that you married ONLY because you were in love is obviously not true, since you were in love for quite a while without proposing.

Lets just forget everything else, coz you don't believe me and I have already said I don't really want to be doing this.

I just want to know though how you logically come to the conclusion above.

If I say I married for love, why does not getting married right away somehow deem that to be false? I just don't follow your logic here, please explain it to me.

The institution of marriage has only very, very recently become about love. For the vast majority of our history, marrying for love was rare. The institution survived just fine for centuries in this manner.
I'm aware of that. It existed and continues to exists because of social, religious and legal reasons. If they cease to exist, so does the marriage.


And the science gets done
And you make a neat gun
For the people who are still alive

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/extras/stillalive.php

*lol
I think if my BF ever did that, I'd bash his teeth in with a spanner!

Wrench.

:)

Aye!



Wonder of wonders, miracle of miracles-
God took up Daniel once again,
Stood by his and side and- miracle of miracles-
Walked him through the lions den!

Wonder of wonders, miracle of miracles-
I was afraid that God would frown,
But like he did so long ago, at Jericho,
God just made a wall fall down!

When Moses softened Pharaohs heart, that was a miracle.
When God made the waters of the red sea part, that was a miracle too!
But of all God's miracles large and small,
The most miraculous one of all
Is that out of a worthless lump of clay,
God has made a man today.

Wonder of wonders, miracle of miracles-
God took the tailor by the hand
Turned him around and- miracle of miracles- Led him to the promised land!

When David slew Goliath (yes!), that was a miracle.
When God gave us matter in the wilderness, that was a miracle too.
But of all God's miracles large and small,
The most miraculous one of all
Is the one I thought could never be:
God has given you to me.

Or, possibly Now I Have Everything?

Oh for fuck's sake people...thanks for turning a nice thread about romance into yet another NSG stupid argument. :rolleyes:

People marry for different reasons, and arguing over whether those reasons are valid or not is idiotic because they only apply to the individuals who make the decisions. Got it?

Neither of us wants to get married right now, so it's a good fit.

Why would you want to marry a person who asks your father before he asks you? Either you're a minor (which would be why he'd literally need your father's permission) and you should grow up before you wed, or your partner views you as your father's property and thinks that your father has the right to give or withhold permission regarding who you marry. Why not find a partner who understands that you are the only person who can give or withhold your consent?

Indeed.

Arg...so it's come to this by the time I get around to sharing my story. Stay with me; it's a bit winding.

It was December three years ago. I've bought the ring (spent and arm and a fucking leg to get it, but it was really super-nice) and I've put it in its place. On Tuesday, December 21, I'm woken up by my cell phone at 9:47 AM (I worked nights at the time and didn't get home until well after 1 AM, so sleeping until past 10 was far from uncommon.) It's my then-girlfriend on the other end. She told me that her step-dad was having a heart attack. Right then and there. Holy fucking shit. The man was only 57.

So in my confusion, I manage to get to the hospital, where, at 11-something in the morning, he passes away. The words from the paramedic's mouth that sealed it were to his wife - "I'm sorry for your loss; we did all we could." And with that, it all went to hell.

My then-girlfriend's mom, a.k.a. my current MIL, whom I'll call J, was a total and complete wreck. She wasn't eating. She was barely sleeping. And GF and I were staying at her condo for that time.

Oh yeah, and there was another mitigating circumstance, aside from us all being away from work (GF quit her holiday job early and fought with a manager who didn't believe her excuse - J smacked that woman down) and being upset - there was a huge, thick sheet of ice on the ground. People were losing power. The roads were in terrible condition. And the funeral date? Christmas Eve. I was asked to be a pallbearer, and as I was carrying the casket, my only thought was, "Dear God, don't drop him."

Other than that, Christmas Eve went off without a hitch, and we drove to my mom's place in the Hocking Hills for Christmas Day. I handed out presents to people for our sizable family gathering, keeping my eye on one present I had parked out of sight. It was the last one I handed out.

Inside the wrapping paper was a small postal box. Inside that...

...a small bear dressed in a tuxedo with a ring on his left finger. As she opened the gift, I took the ring off the bear's paw and asked her to marry me. She tearfully accepted, pictures were taken, and we still have the bear (a TY Beanie Baby named Groom, incidentally.)

And damned if the ring weren't too small. The jeweler had forgotten to size the damn thing, and she had to wear it on her pinky until we got it correctly sized.

Oh for fuck's sake people...thanks for turning a nice thread about romance into yet another NSG stupid argument. :rolleyes:

If you don't like arguments...click elsewhere and witness the awesome power of teh interwebs as you are magically transported away!


People marry for different reasons, and arguing over whether those reasons are valid or not is idiotic because they only apply to the individuals who make the decisions. Got it?
Good thing I'm not arguing over whether or not anybody's reasons for marrying are valid, I guess.

But hey, it wouldn't be a stupid NSG argument without some holier-than-thou chap wandering in and telling everyone to shut up already. :D

I'm aware of that. It existed and continues to exists because of social, religious and legal reasons. If they cease to exist, so does the marriage.

Yah, was just making a general point.

If I say I married for love, why does not getting married right away somehow deem that to be false? I just don't follow your logic here, please explain it to me.
I've re-stated it repeatedly already, and honestly I can't think of any new way to put it.

I gave my girlfriend an advent calendar, and the 25th day has the ring in it.

A shame to see some people getting all riled and/or defensive on this thread, but no real surprises, I guess.

I married my wife because I love her, and she loves me. Did I love her before we got engaged? Absolutely - I would hardly have proposed if I didn't. Why did I propose when I did, rather than earlier? Call it romance if you will, and as others have, but I'm not honestly sure... it just seemed like the 'right' thing to do at the time and now, looking back over the years, I feel pretty justified in saying that it was indeed the right thing to do.

Both of our families are traditional (perhaps not precisely the right word, but it'll do) enough that there was a certain weight of expectation in the direction of marriage, but that wasn't the only, or even the main, driving factor. I suppose that, in part, I proposed marriage as a public statement of my intention to commit to her for the rest of my life. Once we were engaged, we possessed a simple, culturally-familiar statement to the world - that we were willing to enter into a legally-binding contract with each other for the rest of our lives. It saved confusion, if nothing else.

I have no religious hang-ups about the whole thing, and no philosophical objections to partnerships that don't involve marriage since, frankly, it's none of my business. As long as people are happy in their relationship then I'm happy for them. :)

A shame to see some people getting all riled and/or defensive on this thread, but no real surprises, I guess.

Lol, why does everybody act like it's such a shame to see substantive discussion on this topic?

Look, proposal stories are cute and everything, but it's also pretty cool to talk about the motives behind the proposals. Relationships are interesting shit, y'all, and I don't see why a cute discussion can't also be an intriguing one.

I gave my girlfriend an advent calendar, and the 25th day has the ring in it.
Haha, I don't think I could last 25 days with that secret! I'd probably manage a couple of days and then I'd move the ring to the next day. :P

Lol, why does everybody act like it's such a shame to see substantive discussion on this topic?

Look, proposal stories are cute and everything, but it's also pretty cool to talk about the motives behind the proposals. Relationships are interesting shit, y'all, and I don't see why a cute discussion can't also be an intriguing one.
Hmm, perhaps it was bad phrasing with the "A shame... " on my part, but that was my gut reaction as I read through the thread - perhaps because it was a "How did you propose?" thread, rather than an "Is marriage necessary?" type thing. Gut reactions are not always to be trusted, I guess.

You're quite correct - interpersonal relationships, especially as regards the type of pair-bonding that sometimes leads to marriage, are indeed 'interesting shit'.

Haha, I don't think I could last 25 days with that secret! I'd probably manage a couple of days and then I'd move the ring to the next day. :P

I barely lasted two weeks with the ring tucked away in my desk drawer, I can't imagine going another two.

Try lasting a bit more than 3 months.

Try lasting a bit more than 3 months.

Your fault for buying the ring that early :p

Your fault for buying the ring that early :p

Bought it mid december after finals were done and proposed in the first week of april. Not quite four months :D

If you don't like arguments...click elsewhere and witness the awesome power of teh interwebs as you are magically transported away!


Good thing I'm not arguing over whether or not anybody's reasons for marrying are valid, I guess.

But hey, it wouldn't be a stupid NSG argument without some holier-than-thou chap wandering in and telling everyone to shut up already. :D

Yeah, I know...I know. I'm still annoyed though. I liked hearing how people proposed.

Heh... redwulf first proposed to me while we were unpacking our campsite at Border War. Two weeks after we started dating. That was kind of a joke, but he made it formal right before my birthday that year, about a week before he went into the hospital to have a major organ yanked out and put in someone else.

I gave my girlfriend an advent calendar, and the 25th day has the ring in it.

That is exceedingly romantic.....

I thought you were supposed to be a sarcastic moon-calve. Are you hiding a secret identity? No, surely you are shallow lumpkin...are not you?

I gave my girlfriend an advent calendar, and the 25th day has the ring in it.

Hey! What's with the respectable stuff? :confused:

That is exceedingly romantic.....

I thought you were supposed to be a sarcastic moon-calve. Are you hiding a secret identity? No, surely you are shallow lumpkin...are not you?

Hey! What's with the respectable stuff? :confused:

I think Ruffy has entirely abandoned truth of late - his best post recently started 'as a law graduate....' or similar.

The only thing Ruffy has bought between a ring, an advent calendar and a girlfriend is the latter and even that was inflatable.

Here's (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13289257&postcount=7) the post - 'Well being a law student...' is the actual start.

Always amusing :)

The only thing Ruffy has bought between a ring, an advent calendar and a girlfriend is the latter.

...so we need to pony up a tire pump for him for X-mass?

...so we need to pony up a tire pump for him for X-mass?

Ha ha, I was editing that implication in as an afterthought.

Great minds think alike?
Fools flock together?

One of the two.

Ha ha, I was editing that implication in as an afterthought.

Great minds think alike?Erm, if ever i find mine, i'll attempt to compare notes.

Fools flock together?NSG? :p


Perhaps his previous gf *was* a law student, and he was doing his best to give an impression of articulation through his scorned filter of perspective.