NationStates Jolt Archive

I've never hosted a roast before, and as I relative newcomer I'm not going to be too harsh.

The idea of the roast is to show your appreciation of Grave_n_Idle by bringing up embarassing moments from his past, recall some of his best and worst posts, and generally make him feel really embarassed.

As I say, I'm a relative newbie, so I'll content myself with quoting G_n_I's first ever post. I was hoping it would be embarassingly craven and newbish, but actually it reads like it was written yesterday:

Just a couple of quick thoughts:

I suspect that the specific desire of the 'establishment' to label marriage as the union between 'a man and a woman' serves a double purpose. The first, is what is being discussed - the lack of right for homosexual couples to enjoy the same tax breaks, etc that heterosexual couples enjoy. I am deeply suspicious that the specific wording is also designed to codify - in advance - a law that will prevent appeals for the legalisation of polygamous marriages. The irony being, of course, that poly marriages are 'sacred' in some religions, but still deprived of the same rights accorded to 'vanilla' couples.

Second thought: Christian antagonists should note that Jesus himself argued seperation of church and state. If he could see the difference between civil and sacred, what right has the modern organised religion to decide otherwise?

Last thought: To the aggressive fellow... Check your history books. Sacred or otherwise, marriage is a relatively new invention... sure, it's in the Bible - but go back a few hundred years and most of America's settler races had no marriage except for common law. Only the rich married, and that was to transfer titles, lands or to protect wealth... everyone else seemed to get by without any kind of recognised civil or sacred arrangement - just a consensus between individuals.

I'm sure the old timers can come up with something more ... er, familiar ... than this.
20,000 posts, Grave_n_Idle can take it.

Roast away!

congrats GnI! :)

one of my favourites:

...
but also, if you think about it for a moment (TM ;)), the person who is perfectly comfortable going round with long "feminine" hair has to be more secure in their sexuality than those chavs who insist on questioning (to put it mildly) the sexual orientation and masculinity of every other person they see :rolleyes:
bloody chavs :mad:

Totally agreed. On all points. I'd rather be the 'weirdo goth', or 'hippy', than be one of those people that has to be in the company of 4 other identically dressed, and identically drunk, drones in order to make up one whole personality.


:cool:

Well, I gave it a go. I was never going to bump the thread to keep it on the front page.

I'm thinking this thread sank like a stone because everyone who knows G_n_I knows they wouldn't want a fuss made about some 'posting milestone.' Or perhaps such displays of respect are just out of fashion now.

I'm pretty sure it's not because no-one likes him. Grave_n_Idle is great. Substantial opinions on heaps of subjects, considerate, thoughful and witty. Bloody great poster!

Pure Metal, thanks for your contribution.

*roasts Grave_n_Idle* :) grats! Cool person.

/offtopic Myth Busters didn't do the plane on a treadmill myth tonight! grrrr

Grave has said on occasion really awesome things about me rocking out loud and such so it would be mean to like.......say mean things about him, even in jest.

well fine, smunkee might not want to say mean things (tell the truth) about GnI but he's never said *I* rocked so im willing to tell the truth...

its a little known fact (lie) that Grave'n'idle had to leave the UK because HE is the one who told tony blair about the weapons of mass destruction in iraq. it turns out that gni thought WMD meant "wiley mean dude" and he, in a drunken spree, sent blair a few prank text messages that went a bit wobbly.

its a very little known fact that Gravenidle became an atheist (implicit, as we all know by now) the day he realized that when his wife was screaming "ohmygodohmygodohmygod" in moments of extreme passion that she was faking it. he still holds out the faint hope that she will one day say it in earnest. (hence the implicit)

Who?

This should go into chat.

I don't keep a close watch on post histories or keep too many posts from the past around for reference. Instead, I'll just say that in my two-and-a-half years here, I've known Grave_n_Idle to be erudite, accurate, patient and kind to new folks like I was then. In fact, he is one of the first NSers I knew by name.

So while I don't have much of a personal history with you, sir, I will still offer congratulations, and thanks for taking the time to teach newbies by example.

HUZZAH!

Grave_n_Idle is one of my internet superheros.

*sniff* They grow up so fast. *dabs at misty eyes*

Grats! I've always enjoyed the pun that is your tag :)

The guy calls himself Cruci-Fiction on Generalite Mafia. Frankly I think that speaks for itself. :p

Congrats old friend! warrior of many a battles

I still wear your quote proud in my sig (even though I did not get a roast)

A new 20K poster! Congrats. Now, where's that blowtorch ...

I've never hosted a roast before, and as I relative newcomer I'm not going to be too harsh.

The idea of the roast is to show your appreciation of Grave_n_Idle by bringing up embarassing moments from his past, recall some of his best and worst posts, and generally make him feel really embarassed.

As I say, I'm a relative newbie, so I'll content myself with quoting G_n_I's first ever post. I was hoping it would be embarassingly craven and newbish, but actually it reads like it was written yesterday:



I'm sure the old timers can come up with something more ... er, familiar ... than this.
20,000 posts, Grave_n_Idle can take it.

Roast away!

I love the guy. I think i can only put up posts i'm embarrassed about regarding him.

I'm sure the old timers can come up with something more ... er, familiar ... than this.
20,000 posts, Grave_n_Idle can take it.

Roast away!

I feel like such a fraud... I think I'm only at about 19,900 and something.

Of course... that ignore my previous nation... :o

(Thanks to anyone who was nice to me).

There's a simple solution! Spam more!

:)

(aka Jeruselem)

Okay, got one!
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13287737&postcount=199
:p

Uncle Gravy!

*storm-hugs*


You are sorely missed whenever you dare not lavishing your presence unto us anywhere near regularly, which, unfortunately, is very regularly.

... yes.

Uncle Gravy!

*storm-hugs*


You are sorely missed whenever you dare not lavishing your presence unto us anywhere near regularly, which, unfortunately, is very regularly.

... yes.

This is true. I think. Depending on what it means. :) Stupid-real-life and making me all kinds of busy. Not even fun busy, just busy.

Not that there's nearly enough SoWiBi when I am here. :)

This is true. I think. Depending on what it means. :) Stupid-real-life and making me all kinds of busy. Not even fun busy, just busy.

Aww, sorry to hear that. Hope you'll, uh, reap the benefits of your busy-ness in due time..

Not that there's nearly enough SoWiBi when I am here. :)

CollocationError: No such thing as enough SoWiBi ;P

Maybe I should eventually soften up and mail you the über-secret list of SoWiBian puppets; that ought to lessen the reproaches of my lacking omnipresence a bit. ;P

I feel like such a fraud... I think I'm only at about 19,900 and something.

Of course... that ignore my previous nation... :o


I KNEW I'd get something on you!

Grave_n_idle is a Puppet!

Puppet!
Puppet!
Puppet!

From now on, I will always be able to win if I don't like something you say!

Puppet!
Pu--

Oops. Who?

*tries to slip out through the back door*

I feel like such a fraud... I think I'm only at about 19,900 and something.

Of course... that ignore my previous nation... :o

(Thanks to anyone who was nice to me).
Congrats.

You little whipper snapper.

;)

*tries to slip out through the back door*

*snags Iffy*

Over 20,000 and still making mudpies in his signature! :p

Hey GnI, Robert Smith called.
He wants his eyeliner back.
;)

*snags Iffy*

Over 20,000 and still making mudpies in his signature! :p

Noes! They be roasting me!

*leaves body*

*sets Grave_n_Idle alight with flamethrower*

What? I thought we were roasting him? Oh, not that kind. Sorry. :(

*runs*

GnI is awesome in that he's a NiN fan. He'd be more awesome if he and Jocabia EVER WROTE THAT FUCKING BOOK!!!


lazy bastards...

Noes! They be roasting me!

*leaves body*

Yeah, but most of it's spam :D

(We'll roast you separately. If we roasted two GMers side-by-side, the resulting roast-feedback would annihilate NSG)

Can I make a spit-roast joke?

I may need someone 'on the other end' as well...

GnI is awesome in that he's a NiN fan. He'd be more awesome if he and Jocabia EVER WROTE THAT FUCKING BOOK!!!


lazy bastards...

You make a good case. It's on the list, I promise. :)

You make a good case. It's on the list, I promise. :)

I've heard it's a long list. :(

Congrats GnI... You're one of the few people I actually enjoy discussing religion with. :cool:

Well I liked him even more when I discovered what a perv he is.

Well I liked him even more when I discovered what a perv he is.

Oops. Yeah.. that was probably the sort of thing Nobel Hobos was looking for...

Nothing to see here!

Why didn't I get this kind of thread when I got 20k?

Why didn't I get this kind of thread when I got 20k?
You did. It was *entirely* in white text.
Didn't you get the memo? I think i left it somewhere in an advent calendar.

Why didn't I get this kind of thread when I got 20k?
We can start our own little club: The 20K Post Rejects.

I am confident that liquor will dull our pain.

We can start our own little club: The 20K Post Rejects.

I am confident that liquor will dull our pain.

I liek.

*puts lampshade on head*

I can't do roasts. Crazy Anglosaxons.

But I like GnI enough to actually be upset when I discovered his support for the death penalty the other day.

See? It's nice wrapped around a kernel of bitterness. Kinda like an Opposite Roast.

Oops. Yeah.. that was probably the sort of thing Nobel Hobos was looking for...

Nothing to see here!

"Nod nod, wink wink, know what I mean, know what I mean ...
...
wot's it like?"

Anyone who's never been called a pervert lacks imagination!

==============

We can start our own little club: The 20K Post Rejects.

I am confident that liquor will dull our pain.

So where to set the bar? 50K posts? I don't want to go spamming the forum with too many "W00t! Great poster hits 25K!" threads. And if you don't want one, you'll have to let us all know.

Liquor may seem to dull the pain, but really it robs the morning to pay the night before.

=============

*puts lampshade on head*

Pics or it's a lie. :D

<whatever>



maybe next time you could call it a tribute thread.

i am increasingly bitter that i was the only one who did a "roast post" and was thus left hanging like some kind of asshole who hates graven.

doesnt ANYONE understand what a roast is?

maybe next time you could call it a tribute thread.

i am increasingly bitter that i was the only one who did a "roast post" and was thus left hanging like some kind of asshole who hates graven.

doesnt ANYONE understand what a roast is?
I understand it alright, I just can't do it.

maybe next time you could call it a tribute thread.

i am increasingly bitter that i was the only one who did a "roast post" and was thus left hanging like some kind of asshole who hates graven.

doesnt ANYONE understand what a roast is?

But, yours was all true!

maybe next time you could call it a tribute thread.

i am increasingly bitter that i was the only one who did a "roast post" and was thus left hanging like some kind of asshole who hates graven.

doesnt ANYONE understand what a roast is?

I do. but I just can't bring myself to say anything bad about GnI...

I tried... I really tried... :(

Yeah I sat here like an idiot for 5 minutes trying to think of something mean to say but was left meanless

I'm beginning to think we should set up a Roast Queue. Every few months roast another 20k+er. Mostly so Bottle and Ifreann don't feel left out.

I'm beginning to think we should set up a Roast Queue. Every few months roast another 20k+er. Mostly so Bottle and Ifreann don't feel left out.

Damn those of us who went and got our nations deleted in a fit of pique. We'll never reach 20k now!

Damn those of us who went and got our nations deleted in a fit of pique. We'll never reach 20k now!

Ah the folly of youth and inexperience. :D

Ah the folly of youth and inexperience. :D

Shut the hell up you whippersnapper.

Shut the hell up you whippersnapper.

Now now, no need to get testy.

Damn those of us who went and got our nations deleted in a fit of pique. We'll never reach 20k now!

What a pity. Careful now lest those tears put out Gravy's roast's fire.

What a pity. Careful now lest those tears put out Gravy's roast's fire.

Hush you.

And I also reject this Anglo-Saxon tradition that makes absolutely no sense. I do not insult on demand...it removes all the fun.

Hush you.

Make me, midget.

And I also reject this Anglo-Saxon tradition that makes absolutely no sense. I do not insult on demand...it removes all the fun.

So what you're saying is when I demand you to insult, you'll stop?

Make me, midget. Tease.



So what you're saying is when I demand you to insult, you'll stop?
No.

Hush you.

And I also reject this Anglo-Saxon tradition that makes absolutely no sense. I do not insult on demand...it removes all the fun.

So how would you have us celebrate this? I am honestly curious. (And not in that mocking way some people claim to be...I mean truly curious.)

soda pop and moose pie

maybe next time you could call it a tribute thread.

i am increasingly bitter that i was the only one who did a "roast post" and was thus left hanging like some kind of asshole who hates graven.

doesnt ANYONE understand what a roast is?

Sure. You get some Spam and put it into a Flame ... no, other way 'round ... :confused:

Grave_n_idle seems to be made of Teflon, nothing sticks.

Best I can do, couldn't track down the origin of the 'perv' roast.

maybe next time you could call it a tribute thread.

i am increasingly bitter that i was the only one who did a "roast post" and was thus left hanging like some kind of asshole who hates graven.

doesnt ANYONE understand what a roast is?

If GnI spent even half the time he wastes cowing Bible-thumpers with poor understandings of history, he'd have that bloody book written by now (assuming Jocabia's laziness is not a function of Grave's free time).

One thing I remember about GnI is that he has to dress differently than he would like, since he has a job. And he has no taste in books because he dislike the Thomas Covenant Chronicles.

One thing I remember about GnI is that he has to dress differently than he would like, since he has a job. And he has no taste in books because he dislike the Thomas Covenant Chronicles.

And he's British. That's automatically points against.

Plus he's a chemist. He's like a physicist who can't see deal with the math. :p

And he's British. That's automatically points against.

Plus he's a chemist. He's like a physicist who can't see deal with the math. :pNot to mention he lives in Georgia!

Not to mention he lives in Georgia!

Quite right! Though one wonders if that's ground for scorn of pity.

Quite right! Though one wonders if that's ground for scorn of pity.

It is my crime.

It is also my punishment. :(

(One curry in seven years.... feel my pain)

If GnI spent even half the time he wastes cowing Bible-thumpers with poor understandings of history, he'd have that bloody book written by now (assuming Jocabia's laziness is not a function of Grave's free time).

Can't I claim the 'cowing' time as research for the book? :o

One thing I remember about GnI is that he has to dress differently than he would like, since he has a job. And he has no taste in books because he dislike the Thomas Covenant Chronicles.

I've been punished for that already - since Robert Jordan has died leaving his series unfinished, and Pratchett is looking distinctly peaky. :(

I do have to dress differently than I would like to, this is true. Blue denim is evil on me. Of course - right now it's a Punisher black-T and black 501's, so I'm not actively complaining this minute.

So how would you have us celebrate this? I am honestly curious. (And not in that mocking way some people claim to be...I mean truly curious.)

Like some of us already are. We stroke one another's large egos, until it culminates in a delicious outpouring of mutual love and leaves us drained.

Like some of us already are. We stroke one another's large egos, until it culminates in a delicious outpouring of mutual love and leaves us drained.

Is this love sticky or goopy in any way?

Like some of us already are. We stroke one another's large egos, until it culminates in a delicious outpouring of mutual love and leaves us drained.

I think that sounds like more fun than it actually is. Or I've been robbed. One or t'other.

I think that sounds like more fun than it actually is. Or I've been robbed. One or t'other.

You aren't rubbing hard enough.

You aren't rubbing hard enough.

That's a relief. I thought maybe the cuffs were too tight.

That's a relief. I thought maybe the cuffs were too tight.

Kehehehehe...damn, I can't take this any further on NSG :(

I've been punished for that already - since Robert Jordan has died leaving his series unfinished, and Pratchett is looking distinctly peaky. :(I know, I know... :(
Jordan did leave notes to his family, and while they're not going to conclude the wheel of time series now, they may still do so when their grieving has run its course.

I do have to dress differently than I would like to, this is true. Blue denim is evil on me. Of course - right now it's a Punisher black-T and black 501's, so I'm not actively complaining this minute.:p

I know, I know... :(
Jordan did leave notes to his family, and while they're not going to conclude the wheel of time series now, they may still do so when their grieving has run its course.

:p

I read that the ghostwriter has actually been picked, and that the conclusion text is expected for a release by the end of 2009? (I think) Still, it's hard to imagine anyone is going to match the 'voice' of the original.

(Just checked Dragonmount - Brandon Sanderson is the author (apparently he wrote "Elantris"? I don't know it)

Can't I claim the 'cowing' time as research for the book? :o

You can't have your cake and write about it too, you know.

See? It's nice wrapped around a kernel of bitterness.
True to form :p

Is this love sticky or goopy in any way?

...bags of hornyflesh walking around all hornylike...

GnI is awesome in that he's a NiN fan. He'd be more awesome if he and Jocabia EVER WROTE THAT FUCKING BOOK!!!


lazy bastards...

We're BUSY!!!! And perhaps a little lazy. I'll tell you what, I'll ditch on all the lame-ass games you get me involved in and then I'll have plenty of time.

If GnI spent even half the time he wastes cowing Bible-thumpers with poor understandings of history, he'd have that bloody book written by now (assuming Jocabia's laziness is not a function of Grave's free time).

The book does cow bible-thumpers. I'd like to point out that I hashed out almost the entire concept myself and that punk, Cruci-non-fiction, won't help out by turning it into a book. The bastard. What do I have to do? Write?

Can't I claim the 'cowing' time as research for the book? :o

Yes. But nearly three years is plenty of research. Start writing so I can have something to take credit for.

well i know i'm being hypocritical here, but the only issue i have with that post is it's a bit dull, like out of a textbook, sure there's no mistakes but there's no risks either.
But speaking as a hardened professional (notice sarcasm) it's better than what i usually post.

well i know i'm being hypocritical here, but the only issue i have with that post is it's a bit dull, like out of a textbook, sure there's no mistakes but there's no risks either.
But speaking as a hardened professional (notice sarcasm) it's better than what i usually post.

Out of context, it is dull. In context, it is an effort to close of weaknesses that would often be employed as an alternative to debating merits.

Or, maybe I'm just dull. :D Either works.

The book does cow bible-thumpers. I'd like to point out that I hashed out almost the entire concept myself and that punk, Cruci-non-fiction, won't help out by turning it into a book. The bastard. What do I have to do? Write?

Hey... didn't I do most of what we already got written? :o

In all seriousness - it does need doing. If you can assemble everything you've got into notes (bullet form would do), I'll put it with the notes I've made from our talks... and start trying to sketch something out.

Hey... didn't I do most of what we already got written? :o

In all seriousness - it does need doing. If you can assemble everything you've got into notes (bullet form would do), I'll put it with the notes I've made from our talks... and start trying to sketch something out.

Blargh! (When you read this in your head, make sure that first part is really loud and exaggerated.) That sounds like work. Notes and stuff? You British are so uptight.

Here's my comment for the thread. Remember the good old days when GnI was a dick and I was all "you know you catch more flies with honey." and "kill them with kindness, Mike." Oh, how naive I was back then.

Hey... didn't I do most of what we already got written? :o

In all seriousness - it does need doing. If you can assemble everything you've got into notes (bullet form would do), I'll put it with the notes I've made from our talks... and start trying to sketch something out.

Blargh! (When you read this in your head, make sure that first part is really loud and exaggerated.) That sounds like work. Notes and stuff? You British are so uptight.

Here's my comment for the thread. Remember the good old days when GnI was a dick and I was all "you know you catch more flies with honey." and "kill them with kindness, Mike." Oh, how naive I was back then.

Yay! I guilted you lazy bums into actually working. *does another victory dance*

Yay! I guilted you lazy bums into actually working. *does another victory dance*

Let's see if that works on you and your cohorts, you know, actually being admins when you say you're gonna be. *waits*

Let's see if that works on you and your cohorts, you know, actually being admins when you say you're gonna be. *waits*

We (or at least I) were official in declaring a hold on the games until the end of semester/finals were done with. You guys just sort of stopped mentioning the book.

Besides, there's a Spycraft game open on the site, and only Junii, Dan, and I are actually signed up. Get with it, slowpoke!

We (or at least I) were official in declaring a hold on the games until the end of semester/finals were done with. You guys just sort of stopped mentioning the book.

Besides, there's a Spycraft game open on the site, and only Junii, Dan, and I are actually signed up. Get with it, slowpoke!

Yeah, I really want to get another game started that won't get past page 2.

Anyway, GnI. He's British and thus sarcastic. Discuss.

Yeah, I really want to get another game started that won't get past page 2.

Anyway, GnI. He's British and thus sarcastic. Discuss.

We made it through one mission and mostly into another one, and are stopped due to time constraints. As for Dan's game, well...I'm not totally thrilled either. He's at the very least handled it unprofessionally, leaving it up to me to declare the hold, etc.

GNI. HE'S BRITISH AND THUS SARCASTIC. DISCUSS.

Stupid spammers.

GNI. HE'S BRITISH AND THUS SARCASTIC. DISCUSS.

Stupid spammers.

Is the sarcasm what makes him British, or the British that makes him sarcastic?

uh

whats the book going to be about?

can we have a joint jocabia gravenidle roast when its done so we can mock it?

uh

whats the book going to be about?

can we have a joint jocabia gravenidle roast when its done so we can mock it?

If the internet still exists by the time we finish it.

If the internet still exists by the time we finish it.

and if i should live so long.

and if i should live so long.

You've not heard of our epic tale. Honestly, it's my idea, but I choose GnI to help because he'll give it the flavor it needs.

Two guys trip and fall out of the universe. It could happen. And they meet God. And basically they learn about the creation and purpose and all those big questions.

It turns out we (people) were made with free will and in Eden. There was no good or evil. We know everything, we have access to all knowledge. And we realize that without the ability to actually decide what to believe, what to do, what is the best move, etc., really free will means nothing. So WE dream a world where we'll have an opportunity for freedom, for wisdom, for faith. We ask for it. And God grants our request. The flaws in the earth, the "good", the "evil", the limitations of our existence are the point.

And well, obviously, there's much more than that, but it's the root of it.

You've not heard of our epic tale. Honestly, it's my idea, but I choose GnI to help because he'll give it the flavor it needs.

Two guys trip and fall out of the universe. It could happen. And they meet God. And basically they learn about the creation and purpose and all those big questions.

It turns out we (people) were made with free will and in Eden. There was no good or evil. We know everything, we have access to all knowledge. And we realize that without the ability to actually decide what to believe, what to do, what is the best move, etc., really free will means nothing. So WE dream a world where we'll have an opportunity for freedom, for wisdom, for faith. We ask for it. And God grants our request. The flaws in the earth, the "good", the "evil", the limitations of our existence are the point.

And well, obviously, there's much more than that, but it's the root of it.

you do need gni for this.

but

what do you intend to do about the grievous wrongs of life that no philosophising makes better? now you have me "afraid" that you will whitewash it instead of facing it head on and amazing me with the way you deal with it.

you do need gni for this.

but

what do you intend to do about the grievous wrongs of life that no philosophising makes better? now you have me "afraid" that you will whitewash it instead of facing it head on and amazing me with the way you deal with it.

I guess to an extent it follows that, for us to be truly free, we have to have the power to do both good and evil, whether it be the height of virtue or the depth of wickedness. Without the ability to literally make any choice within our power to choose, we are limited.

you do need gni for this.

but

what do you intend to do about the grievous wrongs of life that no philosophising makes better? now you have me "afraid" that you will whitewash it instead of facing it head on and amazing me with the way you deal with it.

Depends on how you look at it. If you were looking on, preparing to be a human life, and were given the choice to suffer and not only gain immense wisdom but help others gain immense wisdom as well, would you? Would you be willing to make that sacrifice? Would you be born into a country were your people were the victims of genocide? Would you be willing to be born with a debilitating illness or one where you'd not survive to the point of self-awareness? I'm sure to some people the idea that such things aren't evil is white-washing, but really good/evil are assignments we make from a fairly haughty perspective. Somehow us killing baby cows isn't evil, but a coyote killing our adult dog is. For me, I intend to paint this all as choice.

The best part is that's just the base premise, it's the end, the choice of the characters that makes the book work in my opinion and I'm excited about it both as writer and as a person who would like to explore the depths of Christianity.

Depends on how you look at it. If you were looking on, preparing to be a human life, and were given the choice to suffer and not only gain immense wisdom but help others gain immense wisdom as well, would you? Would you be willing to make that sacrifice? Would you be born into a country were your people were the victims of genocide? Would you be willing to be born with a debilitating illness or one where you'd not survive to the point of self-awareness? I'm sure to some people the idea that such things aren't evil is white-washing, but really good/evil are assignments we make from a fairly haughty perspective. Somehow us killing baby cows isn't evil, but a coyote killing our adult dog is. For me, I intend to paint this all as choice.

The best part is that's just the base premise, it's the end, the choice of the characters that makes the book work in my opinion and I'm excited about it both as writer and as a person who would like to explore the depths of Christianity.

Which also opens up the potential of a merging of the Abrahmic "eternal afterlife" tradition with the cyclic lifetimes of Dharmic religions. Those with a desire to "try it again" are free to return to the mortal coil, while those content with the wisdom already gained, or who shy away from the suffering of the world, are free to once again return to the idyllic state.

Life itself becomes a choice.

what im thinking of is something like

you make the deal with god for whatever kind of directed free will you mutually agree on.

you walk out of the gates of the garden of eden are are immediately mauled by a lion leaving you a useless cripple for the rest of your life. your partner in the story has to spend the rest of the book carrying you around from place to place and making sure you get fed and whatever.

or some similar tragedy that happens to YOU and not to some other person whose fate you bemoan but since it doesnt happen to you, you philosophize away. "oh damn, adam just got eaten by a lion. wow life really does suck. lets go over the next hill and look for a new husband for eve, shall we?"

i think that no discussion of free will is complete without dealing with free will in the face of cruel reality.

Which also opens up the potential of a merging of the Abrahmic "eternal afterlife" tradition with the cyclic lifetimes of Dharmic religions. Those with a desire to "try it again" are free to return to the mortal coil, while those content with the wisdom already gained, or who shy away from the suffering of the world, are free to once again return to the idyllic state.

Life itself becomes a choice.

Yup. It's kind of extension of the old tale about the blind men and the elephant. Or I prefer the analogy of looking really close at a bitmap. You get close enough, you'd swear that the whole world was yellow, when really, you're just seeing a single pixel.

what im thinking of is something like

you make the deal with god for whatever kind of directed free will you mutually agree on.

you walk out of the gates of the garden of eden are are immediately mauled by a lion leaving you a useless cripple for the rest of your life. your partner in the story has to spend the rest of the book carrying you around from place to place and making sure you get fed and whatever.

or some similar tragedy that happens to YOU and not to some other person whose fate you bemoan but since it doesnt happen to you, you philosophize away. "oh damn, adam just got eaten by a lion. wow life really does suck. lets go over the next hill and look for a new husband for eve, shall we?"

i think that no discussion of free will is complete without dealing with free will in the face of cruel reality.


Oh, no, you misunderstand. The we in the book is really Adam and Eve, the first people. GnI and I, the two friends, learn of the purpose of life, the choices that were made by people in order to create the world as it is. GnI and I are simply learning about these things and leading up to the ending where there is a specific choice, a specific role, we must choose or not choose to fill.

The free will bit is that cruel reality is the point. That without it, it's not really free will. If I can't choose to shoot a kitten in the face, then I'm not free. And if I can't do so, knowing that someone else might shoot me in the face, then, again, it's not really offering any wisdom. Without the consequences of a harsh world, the free will would be essentially just a chance to act like spoiled children. We asked for cruel reality and, truly, there is nothing cruel about it. There's nothing kind about it. It's simply life.

GNI. HE'S BRITISH AND THUS SARCASTIC. DISCUSS.

I never knew. He must be crap at sarcasm then!

Oh, no, you misunderstand. The we in the book is really Adam and Eve, the first people. GnI and I, the two friends, learn of the purpose of life, the choices that were made by people in order to create the world as it is. GnI and I are simply learning about these things and leading up to the ending where there is a specific choice, a specific role, we must choose or not choose to fill.

The free will bit is that cruel reality is the point. That without it, it's not really free will. If I can't choose to shoot a kitten in the face, then I'm not free. And if I can't do so, knowing that someone else might shoot me in the face, then, again, it's not really offering any wisdom. Without the consequences of a harsh world, the free will would be essentially just a chance to act like spoiled children. We asked for cruel reality and, truly, there is nothing cruel about it. There's nothing kind about it. It's simply life.


ahhh so you have no say in whether or not there is free will and what form it will take. you simply realize that you have a choice to make and have to decide what you will do?

ahhh so you have no say in whether or not there is free will and what form it will take. you simply realize that you have a choice to make and have to decide what you will do?

Well, we, Mike and I, are just meeting God after this has all been set in motion. We're just people who exist now. However, the stuff I told you is just background for the nature of the world. What we eventually have to do, is really the point, and it's the part I think is worth holding on to (meaning not telling you). It's thick. We've layered it quite well, I think. It works well, I think, because it makes sense to a rational atheist AND a rational theist. It should be wild fun. And it's gonna piss of the Pope. Hehe.

Well, we, Mike and I, are just meeting God after this has all been set in motion. We're just people who exist now. However, the stuff I told you is just background for the nature of the world. What we eventually have to do, is really the point, and it's the part I think is worth holding on to (meaning not telling you). It's thick. We've layered it quite well, I think. It works well, I think, because it makes sense to a rational atheist AND a rational theist. It should be wild fun. And it's gonna piss of the Pope. Hehe.

lol that is a great side benefit.

Here's my comment for the thread. Remember the good old days when GnI was a dick and I was all "you know you catch more flies with honey." and "kill them with kindness, Mike." Oh, how naive I was back then.

:D

Oh, no, you misunderstand. The we in the book is really Adam and Eve, the first people. GnI and I, the two friends, learn of the purpose of life, the choices that were made by people in order to create the world as it is. GnI and I are simply learning about these things and leading up to the ending where there is a specific choice, a specific role, we must choose or not choose to fill.

The free will bit is that cruel reality is the point. That without it, it's not really free will. If I can't choose to shoot a kitten in the face, then I'm not free. And if I can't do so, knowing that someone else might shoot me in the face, then, again, it's not really offering any wisdom. Without the consequences of a harsh world, the free will would be essentially just a chance to act like spoiled children. We asked for cruel reality and, truly, there is nothing cruel about it. There's nothing kind about it. It's simply life.

I do quite like the 'someone gets lioned and spends the rest of the book in a knapsack' angle, though... :D