NationStates Jolt Archive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

A poll: Should women who show as much skin as possible expect that males will not go to them and expect them to cover up, especially muslim males who believe strongly in modesty for both men and women? Certainly in a society where there are many muslims it should be understood that some will take offence to displays of female sexuality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

A poll: Should women who show as much skin as possible expect that males will not go to them and expect them to cover up, especially muslim males who believe strongly in modesty for both men and women? Certainly in a society where there are many muslims it should be understood that some will take offence to displays of female sexuality.

Unless we make it illegal for men to go topless, women ought to be afforded the same right. There is nothing wrong with bare breasts. They are not sexual, they are functional, contrary to what some uptight conservatives would have you think.

Besides, what difference is there between seeing a topless fat guy and a topless woman? Both have breasts.

How does this fit in with race riots

How does this fit in with race riots

It doesn't.

Interesting poll you got there.

Hey Kievan-Prussia!

Missed you and your racist, neo-nazi stuff!

Given that this has nothing to do with the riots...what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

This Sunday every Aussie in the Shire get down to North Cronulla to support Leb and wog bashing day.")[4]...

A number of the rioters wore clothing bearing racist slogans such as "We Grew Here, You Flew Here", "Wog Free Zone", "Aussie Pride", "Save 'Nulla" and "Ethnic Cleansing Unit". Chants of "Lebs out", "Fuck off Lebs", "Lebs go home" and other discriminatory expressions were continuously shouted out by the mob.
I assume Leb is anyone Arab-looking... but What is a wog?

... expect them to cover up, especially muslim males who believe strongly in modesty for both men and women? Certainly in a society where there are many muslims it should be understood that some will take offence to displays of female sexuality.No, No and No.

Its a public Beach.

having "many Muslims around" does not make it a Muslim society.
The Muslims need to buy a piece of beachfront.. and make it a Private Beach.

Muslims can decide what is the dress code on a Muslim society.. But not in a Non-Muslim society/country.
They are a minority and a minority canNOT decide what is the dress code -on a public beach-.
Its called Democracy.
====

Having said that.. I am against all the Racist riots that took place.

http://perspektif.net/i/art/sydney.jpg

The Lebs can't be allowed to go up and down beaches in their vans beating up people for showing too much skin. They should be expected to integrate into Australian culture and accept, or at the very least tolerate, Australian values. The riots were an inevitable conclusion of people being fed up with crime, violence, and discrimination--not by random perpetrators in random incidents but by the same demographic group under the same circumstances every time.

You tell me what is genetically different about Semitic men that makes them unable to control themselves in the presence of a whorishly dressed woman where whites and blacks can. Short answer: there is no such difference. The entire responsibility is on the Muslim rapist because he cannot affect what the woman wears, but he can affect his reaction thereto.

In short, if the Muslims can't adapt and integrate, they need to get the hell out.

You tell me what is genetically different about Semitic men that makes them unable to control themselves in the presence of a whorishly dressed woman where whites and blacks can. There is no difference.

Bloody right. I might not like the Aussies on many counts, not the least of which is the fact you have a better cricket team than us, but this I do find impressive. A non-violent, commendable response to deplorable behaviour from immgrants.

The entire responsibility is on the rapist ..Yes it is.. I say a Rapist belongs in the Gas chamber.




BTW I edited out the word "Muslim" from your quote.

because a Christian boy or a Muslim boy.. they both deserve equal penalty for equal crime.
This was your original post

The entire responsibility is on the Muslim rapist ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

A poll: Should women who show as much skin as possible expect that males will not go to them and expect them to cover up, especially muslim males who believe strongly in modesty for both men and women? Certainly in a society where there are many muslims it should be understood that some will take offence to displays of female sexuality.

They should get the fuck out of Australia if they take offense.

Certainly in a society where there are many muslims it should be understood that some will take offence to displays of female sexuality.

Nope. If they choose to live in a particular country, they should bloody well accept that a woman can wear whatever she wants.

The Lebs can't be allowed to go up and down beaches in their vans beating up people for showing too much skin. They should be expected to integrate into Australian culture and accept, or at the very least tolerate, Australian values. The riots were an inevitable conclusion of people being fed up with crime, violence, and discrimination--not by random perpetrators in random incidents but by the same demographic group under the same circumstances every time.

And beating up random innocent people because they happened to have brown skin was a sane and measured response?


In short, if the Muslims can't adapt and integrate, they need to get the hell out.

Indeed. And most Muslims in all Western countries do adapt perfectly well.

It always confuses the moronic bigots when I explain that the two Muslims I know best are both feminists and in favour of gay marriage.

I am all for multicultural societies and being tolerant of others faiths, but people of faith must understand that not everyone shares the same values as they do, and respect those people's freedom of expression. Women (and men) have the right to dress however they want and not be attacked or labelled as sluts. Besides, the instances your citing people taking offence at happened on a beach - of course people will be wearing swimsuits on a beach!

Indeed. And most Muslims in all Western countries do adapt perfectly well.

Exactly. My area has a very large Somali population, and by and large they're the sweetest, most polite, most modest people you could ever hope to meet. Most that I've met are also hard-working, honest, and excel academically. They not only adapt to the community, but make it a better place to live.

An example of why Western and Middle Eastern culture is made of lose. Racist assholes v. misogynist dicks...

Exactly. My area has a very large Somali population, and by and large they're the sweetest, most polite, most modest people you could ever hope to meet. Most that I've met are also hard-working, honest, and excel academically. They not only adapt to the community, but make it a better place to live.

I'm not all surprised.

If only the media were more interested in highlighting those stories...

Fact : The Quran doesn't state explicitly on what is modest.

Therefore : I'd go with this interpretation ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab#Alternative_viewpoint

Conclusion : all of them are idiots, rioters and instigators.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

A poll: Should women who show as much skin as possible expect that males will not go to them and expect them to cover up, especially muslim males who believe strongly in modesty for both men and women? Certainly in a society where there are many muslims it should be understood that some will take offence to displays of female sexuality.

Sorry but the bitch was asking for it defense rarely works (well it appears to work in Muslim countries thinking of Saudi and another case In Afghanistan).

Your "Moral" values do not trump the cultural views of the country you visit or immigrate.

but What is a wog?

It's a derogatory term usually applied to Indians.

It means Warden on Guard.

It's a derogatory term usually applied to Indians.

It means Warden on Guard.

Ummm, does it have anything to do with Australia's ancient history as a penal colony?

Ummm, does it have anything to do with Australia's ancient history as a penal colony?

That I don't know. They could of course have a different meaning.....

I'm not all surprised.

If only the media were more interested in highlighting those stories...

Yeah, instead they choose to highlight the rare instances where a Muslim taxi driver refuses to drive a blind person with their seeing eye dog, or a Muslim grocer who refuses to scan pork products and makes the customer do it (those both happened, btw, but were obviously isolated instances). All but a handful of them, though, are moderate, integrated, and culturally liberal.

I'm not voting on this poll due to the obnoxious wording of options 2 & 3.

A woman in a swimsuit is not a slut or a whore.

I'm not voting on this poll due to the obnoxious wording of options 2 & 3.

A woman in a swimsuit is not a slut or a whore.

No, but a slut or a whore in a swimsuit is. :p

*runs*

I'll bend your mom over and show her my uncovered meat...ftw
:)

I'll bend your mom over and show her my uncovered meat...ftw
:)

She don't eat meat but she sure like the bone, huaaah!

There's no right not to be offended, sorry.

It would be nice if women did think about it for a moment, but they have no obligation to do so. If the Muslim men really don't want to see naked skin, they'll just have to look away.

I'm not voting on this poll due to the obnoxious wording of options 2 & 3.I am not voting on this poll because they dont have a topless option..

Free the boobs :D :D :eek: :D

Zilam, Vandal-Unknown, go play some nice healthy sport somewhere that isn't here.


Let's look at these pretty statistics instead.

The 2006 Census showed that 1.1% of Australians acknowledged Islam as their faith; that almost half of these were under 25 -- add a decade and you get the (to me astonishing) figure that almost 70% are under 35 -- and that there's a slight preponderance of men (52.2% to 47.8%).

It seems to me (open to correction by sociologists or statisticians here) that this suggests that the Muslims most Australians are likely to encounter are young men in the volatile, risk-taking age groups; that Australian Muslim parents may find their sons wanting to marry "out" and Australians of other faiths (or none) find their daughters wanting to marry "in"; and that the majority of Australian Muslims are in the age group that is competing with other young Australians for prestige jobs and for low-paid McJobs.

That sounds like a recipe for tension between any two discernible groups, regardless of their composition.

My point is that, though this is usually articulated as a clash of religions, that may be miles too simplistic, and focussing on religious differences could become an easy out that stops all of us doing anything about the other causes.

Here's a link (http://www.aim.org.au/articles.asp?article=63) to the stats. This article has obviously edited them, as the 2001 Census included figures for Wiccans, but what's left is correct, and it's of interest for its historical info.

Yeah, instead they choose to highlight the rare instances where a Muslim taxi driver refuses to drive a blind person with their seeing eye dog, or a Muslim grocer who refuses to scan pork products and makes the customer do it (those both happened, btw, but were obviously isolated instances). All but a handful of them, though, are moderate, integrated, and culturally liberal.

Speaking as a journalist, I can tell you that it's very nice to write nice, positive news, but the opportunities to do so are fairly rare - stories are only newsworthy if they are interesting or out of the ordinary.
Muslims, just like everyone else, are unlikely to get media attention by living perfectly ordinary lives and getting on fine with everybody they meet. Expecting the media to report that is a little like wondering why the police never pull people over to congratulate them on their perfectly safe driving, yet make a big fuss about it when someone ploughs into a bus queue and kills three people.

That's not to say there's any excuse for the media needlessly stirring up racial problems, as some sections of it have been known to do. Sadly, however, stirring is rarely required.

Bloody right. I might not like the Aussies on many counts, not the least of which is the fact you have a better cricket team than us, but this I do find impressive. A non-violent, commendable response to deplorable behaviour from immgrants.
:rolleyes:

It always confuses the moronic bigots when I explain that the two Muslims I know best are both feminists and in favour of gay marriage.

Indeed, I've noted something similar. But let's not forget that while moronic bigots will get confused, moronic bigots who happen to be muslim moronic bigots will prefer to end the confusion by beheading the two muslims you know best, if they get the chance.

Never muddle the bad with the horrible.

Expecting the media to report that is a little like wondering why the police never pull people over to congratulate them on their perfectly safe driving, yet make a big fuss about it when someone ploughs into a bus queue and kills three people.

This analogy is silly. Getting pulled over, even for a commendation, is a pain in the butt! Why would anyone want or expect it? But there is an agency that rewards me for good driving. It is my insurance company, and it gives me lower and lower rates the longer I go without a violation.

We expect good driving as the standard, of course.

News, on the other hand, should be "important events" whether positive or negative. When the media starts to think that the good events are standard and should be ignored- even when they are exceptional!- people start to forget that good events ARE standard. People start to avoid air travel, or cities, because they think it's too dangerous.

The proof is in the business news: Business reporters are fully aware that their market is solely concerned with facts, and will rapidly tune out and go to competitors if they don't get them. Therefore, business reporting covers things that are positive, negative or even completely neutral on a purely factual basis:

"Leading Asian indexes held their ground today as..."

"Bond prices rose slightly in morning trading, then dipped."

"Analysts predict no significant movement in pork bellies."

You will never see financial reporters omit news merely because it is positive, or expected, or mundane, because their market will not tolerate this. The political and general news audience isn't quite so demanding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

A poll: Should women who show as much skin as possible expect that males will not go to them and expect them to cover up, especially muslim males who believe strongly in modesty for both men and women? Certainly in a society where there are many muslims it should be understood that some will take offence to displays of female sexuality.

School over for the Christmas hols already?

Why would anyone want or expect it? But there is an agency that rewards me for good driving. It is my insurance company, and it gives me lower and lower rates the longer I go without a violation.

Yes, just as wider society rewards you for good behaviour. That has very little to do with my analogy (which I agree was a little on the silly side).


News, on the other hand, should be "important events" whether positive or negative. When the media starts to think that the good events are standard and should be ignored- even when they are exceptional!- people start to forget that good events ARE standard. People start to avoid air travel, or cities, because they think it's too dangerous.


For sure, news does not have to be bad. But then, are you saying that any news report of a plane crash should carry a disclaimer saying: 'But don't worry, 15,675,384 people flew on a plane today and didn't die, so don't cancel your trip to Tenerife.'?